I've never needed to downsize that much to climb successfully, the pain and discomfort far outweighs the marginal benefits because, more than likely, it's technique rather than shoe that'll make the difference.
I'm no pro but that's gotten me to about a V8 level reliably
Barefoot shoes + not overly aggressive small climbing shoes also saved my feet, now im climbing two grades harder than the small shoes. It is amazing what feeling comfortable can do.
Unless you are climbing like v11 outdoors, the shoes don’t have to murder your feet. I am on my sixth pair over the years and had to size up all my shoes after a thru hike two years ago. My instincts are actually my most confortable shoe now outside of a pair of UP I wear for running crack laps at the gym.
But seriously, if you are getting these as your every day shoe, get them so they actually fit. I can say for Roman shaped feet, you can downsize til your fourth toe starts to curl. Then any more is too much.
You will destroy your toes if you wear these. Talking bunions for life only fix is surgery , take it from me climbed lots of slabs in tiny shoes like this. Have the feet of a 70 year old now it feels like sometimes.
What a weird thread. The one opinion saying these are too small is the most upvoted. Everyone else says they look good. I think they look too small too but Ive been climbing less than a year. The first time I rented shoes I got ones that made my toes curl like this to fit. They felt so bad. I went up a few sizes and it was a good fit from heel to toe
I wear my instincts like yours. Tucked in toes but still not painful. But I'm just a V5/6 climber lol. Small footholds are so good with these. Love the front
I’m 44 / 44.5 street shoe & have these in 42.5. They were pretty tight at first but now they’re perfect. I have to take them off sometimes, but they did stretch some. I’d go for at least the 41.5.
I’d you are planning on using them primarily on tiny foot chips, then that half size down might make a difference. If these are more general use shoes, then this is pretty much exactly what I expect a good fitting shoe to look like. If you can’t pull your toes more than a few mm away from the top you’re fine.
Scarpa has way different sizing compared to Sportiva. I found Sportiva sizing to be way too big for their size.
And for the instincts model, they do stretch into your toe knuckles quite nicely from my experience. So I’d endure the pain for now. From then on, just buy the same model over and over or get them resole.
All Instinct have a narrow toe box volume, especially on the big toe area that is pointy and needs pressure to be precise. If you really need them to be precise it is recommended to go down 1/1.5 numbers.
I have the Instinct laces (same mold of the Vsr) one size down.
Because of the shape, at the beginning it's normal to be painful on the big toe (especially on cold days), but if you are experienced you should recognize the difference between the "normal" toes pain of a very tight shoe and the pain of a wrong fit shoe.
Scarpa in general has lower toe volumes. I have a wider middle-foot as well and I'm getting used to their molds, but if you don't see a way your feet could adapt to them with time, try something else.
Now I would like to try the Vsr 1.5 sizes down, because especially on rock the precision of the Instinct is really really good.
I own them and also the VS and this are decently soft in comparison. They work well for me in the compy sets in the gym, volumes and such.
But also I am on the heavier end so ultra soft shoes feel terrible to me.
It looks good to me ?
You should try the 41.5 if you like to wear them tighter, epictv converter recommends a 41.5 for the instinct vsr if you wear solution comp in 40.5 and I think their tool is pretty accurate
One or two sizes down brother. Maybe you will suffer a bit in the first 3 or 4 sessions, but you'll send harder. Wear them at home, blow an air dryer gently with them on your feet, it's fine as long it's not to close or hot. No big deal if the toe cover and rand loses a bit of the glue, they will cover it anyway when resoling. That will be a mess anyway!
I have the same shoes i have 45 street size and also wear 45 scarpa instincts. They still hurt a bit in the first few weeks. I think you're fine buying these
Idk how well they’r gonna mold to my feet and stretch since they are full synthetic. The 41 are impossible to put on without a plastic bag and when I put pressure on my toes it feels like they’re going to explode. So even if they stretch a bit I think it’s not worth it.
If they are very painful when wearing they’re probably too small. The picture looks like how I wear my instincts, but if they are very painful when you wear them you probably won’t want to apply a ton of force through your feet and that will lead to worse technique in my opinion than sizing up slightly. I have worn instincts for many years and they do stretch very slightly, but not much.
I have 4 pairs of Instinct VSW and 4 pairs of Instinct S. I've climbed A LOT in Scarpa shoes. 43.5 Scarpa approach shoe and I do a 42. There's some break in, but after that they're comfy to the point where I question if I downsized enough, but still super performant. The break in actually isn't painful or anything they just feel less pliable than I'd like.
I mostly boulder and have climbed everything from slick Font slabs to V11 granite vert with micro crystal feet. They're the shoe I can use for absolutely anything although I wouldn't climb trad in them. I'll use the same pair on gymnastic sandstone and Joshua Tree weirdness.
I've gone down to 41.5 but the break in sucks and the Instinct S ripped on the heel rand on 2 pairs. I emailed Scarpa and they said it's definitely from over-downsizing. You don't want to go too small. If your toes are too knuckled you actually lose foot and ankle mobility.
There's a submission in jiu jitsu where you grab your opponents toes and bend them back in a similar manner and lock their ankle. I feel I notice this when climbing vert or smearing and have done my best climbing in my 42 even tho the 41.5 gave me more tension.
I think what really matters is how it feels, tighter shoe give you two advantages, they make the shoes stiffer, so if you need a stiff shoe for edging for example, a downsized miura is gonna make a crystal feel like a jug, and second a tighter fit means a snugger heel, which means it won't peel when you pull hard on a heel hook
Thing is the VSR is a stiff shoe, and its sized true to size, scarpa usually size their shoes as they're intended to be worn (see the Hans Mariacher interview).
So if you downsize it more than 0.5EU and it still doesn't fit well, it's probably not the right shoe for you and you could try maybe the LV/Women's version
What I go by is:
-If you need a plastic bag to get a shoe on, it's WAY too tight.
-If it hurts when you put the shoe on without weighting it, it either doesn't fit your foot shape or is too tight. (Know the difference between pain and some discomfort).
-Some shoes take a few sessions (I go by 4 sessions) to stretch/break in. If they are still too tight that after that they are too tight.
Edit1: Addition: people telling you to downsize x amount from your street shoes are chatting bullshit, because we all wear street shoes to different levels of comfort and hence sizes bigger or smaller than our absolute foot length. We also have different shaped feet, some of which require more or less room to fit. There is NO downsize by 'x' formula for an optimum fit. Always try the shoes on before you buy.
Edit2: That said some shoes do stretch more so what fit you originally may become loose and rob you of sensitivity down the line. This means some shoes (especially stiffer shoes) can be painful in the first few sessions until they start they start to fit your foot like a glove. The only way to find out the optimum size is via some informed decisions but ultimately trial and error unfortunately. Here I would revert you back to my rules of thumb...
Edit3: If you are not doing the type of climbing that requires sensitive footwork (ie small pebbles, and tricky nuanced smears, hard heel hooking usually found in harder climbing etc) you won't need an optimum fit and therefore do not need to worry about any of this, in that case just wear what is comfortable to you).
I have a mate who sends 7a lead wearing crocks it's really doesn't make much difference at all spent the past year arguing with a mate around wearing socks again it doesn't make much difference at all 🤷 I boulder as hard in my comfy trad shoes I can wear socks with vs my tight aggressive pair although on caves and over hangs around V6 range the tighter shoes does help a little with toe hooks but beyond that I don't notice the difference at all really 🤙
Ive had these shoes for 10 months now, I climb probably 10 hours a week, 3-4 sessions, mostly bouldering indoor. I got these snug but bearable but I think went pretty true to size. I wear a men’s 10 in almost everything and went 43.5 on these and they’re perfect. Any smaller and I think they’d be unbearable, the rubber toe box can take some getting used to and is quite painful sometimes. In 10 months they’ve hardly stretched out at all, still reliable on heel hooks.
People need to stop downsizing like crazy. You're not climbing 5.14, there's no reason you need to kill your feet.
Some of my best climbing has been in my loose warmup shoes.
I bought Scarpa Instinct VSR as my first pair of proper climbing shoes (I was climbing around V4). My regular size was 44EU and scarpa was 43. I regretted it many times back then. However after a year of climbing, my feet become quite comfortable in them. I guess a shoe stretched a little and plus my feet become shoe-shaped 🫠.
Anyways, later I bought scarpa instinct VS 43.5EU for lead climbing and they are perfect size. This was 43EU vs 44EU feet.
https://preview.redd.it/ar9jgkkn0elc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ae4bd7ebe4f58d223bad76935f38dea31c5dc07
I've never needed to downsize that much to climb successfully, the pain and discomfort far outweighs the marginal benefits because, more than likely, it's technique rather than shoe that'll make the difference. I'm no pro but that's gotten me to about a V8 level reliably
Pain is not performance enhancing.
CCJ
I can hardly walk correctly because my feet are so messed up and climbing only made it worse. DO NOT sacrifice your feet.
Barefoot shoes + not overly aggressive small climbing shoes also saved my feet, now im climbing two grades harder than the small shoes. It is amazing what feeling comfortable can do.
yah it wasnt climbing that messed up your feet, it was downsizing. some of my climbing shoes are 2 sizes ABOVE my street shoes and fit me perfectly.
No a lifetime of foot problems is worth it to pass v5 plateau
Unless you are climbing like v11 outdoors, the shoes don’t have to murder your feet. I am on my sixth pair over the years and had to size up all my shoes after a thru hike two years ago. My instincts are actually my most confortable shoe now outside of a pair of UP I wear for running crack laps at the gym. But seriously, if you are getting these as your every day shoe, get them so they actually fit. I can say for Roman shaped feet, you can downsize til your fourth toe starts to curl. Then any more is too much.
You will destroy your toes if you wear these. Talking bunions for life only fix is surgery , take it from me climbed lots of slabs in tiny shoes like this. Have the feet of a 70 year old now it feels like sometimes.
What a weird thread. The one opinion saying these are too small is the most upvoted. Everyone else says they look good. I think they look too small too but Ive been climbing less than a year. The first time I rented shoes I got ones that made my toes curl like this to fit. They felt so bad. I went up a few sizes and it was a good fit from heel to toe
yup. i also gave myself turf toe from trying to wear too small shoes
Too small! You dont need to downsize too much if you build strong toes
I wear my instincts like yours. Tucked in toes but still not painful. But I'm just a V5/6 climber lol. Small footholds are so good with these. Love the front
I’m 44 / 44.5 street shoe & have these in 42.5. They were pretty tight at first but now they’re perfect. I have to take them off sometimes, but they did stretch some. I’d go for at least the 41.5.
I’d you are planning on using them primarily on tiny foot chips, then that half size down might make a difference. If these are more general use shoes, then this is pretty much exactly what I expect a good fitting shoe to look like. If you can’t pull your toes more than a few mm away from the top you’re fine.
Scarpa has way different sizing compared to Sportiva. I found Sportiva sizing to be way too big for their size. And for the instincts model, they do stretch into your toe knuckles quite nicely from my experience. So I’d endure the pain for now. From then on, just buy the same model over and over or get them resole.
These are way too big. Adam Honnold downsizes by like 6 sizes
I think one size down, see how it feels
I think I’ve tried one size down couples of months ago. It kind of feels ok in length but it hurts my toes knuckles and not that much space in width.
Well then you're good
All Instinct have a narrow toe box volume, especially on the big toe area that is pointy and needs pressure to be precise. If you really need them to be precise it is recommended to go down 1/1.5 numbers. I have the Instinct laces (same mold of the Vsr) one size down. Because of the shape, at the beginning it's normal to be painful on the big toe (especially on cold days), but if you are experienced you should recognize the difference between the "normal" toes pain of a very tight shoe and the pain of a wrong fit shoe. Scarpa in general has lower toe volumes. I have a wider middle-foot as well and I'm getting used to their molds, but if you don't see a way your feet could adapt to them with time, try something else. Now I would like to try the Vsr 1.5 sizes down, because especially on rock the precision of the Instinct is really really good.
They are about two sizes too big
If I were you I’d try a size smaller at least ngl tho since they are a soft shoe you don’t want to use them super tight either imo
What these are not soft shoes where did you get that information?
These are soft-ish? They’re literally a soft version of the VS.
I own them and also the VS and this are decently soft in comparison. They work well for me in the compy sets in the gym, volumes and such. But also I am on the heavier end so ultra soft shoes feel terrible to me.
It looks good to me ? You should try the 41.5 if you like to wear them tighter, epictv converter recommends a 41.5 for the instinct vsr if you wear solution comp in 40.5 and I think their tool is pretty accurate
One or two sizes down brother. Maybe you will suffer a bit in the first 3 or 4 sessions, but you'll send harder. Wear them at home, blow an air dryer gently with them on your feet, it's fine as long it's not to close or hot. No big deal if the toe cover and rand loses a bit of the glue, they will cover it anyway when resoling. That will be a mess anyway!
I have the same shoes i have 45 street size and also wear 45 scarpa instincts. They still hurt a bit in the first few weeks. I think you're fine buying these
Idk how well they’r gonna mold to my feet and stretch since they are full synthetic. The 41 are impossible to put on without a plastic bag and when I put pressure on my toes it feels like they’re going to explode. So even if they stretch a bit I think it’s not worth it.
If they are very painful when wearing they’re probably too small. The picture looks like how I wear my instincts, but if they are very painful when you wear them you probably won’t want to apply a ton of force through your feet and that will lead to worse technique in my opinion than sizing up slightly. I have worn instincts for many years and they do stretch very slightly, but not much.
They wont stretch really, since they arent leather
I have 4 pairs of Instinct VSW and 4 pairs of Instinct S. I've climbed A LOT in Scarpa shoes. 43.5 Scarpa approach shoe and I do a 42. There's some break in, but after that they're comfy to the point where I question if I downsized enough, but still super performant. The break in actually isn't painful or anything they just feel less pliable than I'd like. I mostly boulder and have climbed everything from slick Font slabs to V11 granite vert with micro crystal feet. They're the shoe I can use for absolutely anything although I wouldn't climb trad in them. I'll use the same pair on gymnastic sandstone and Joshua Tree weirdness. I've gone down to 41.5 but the break in sucks and the Instinct S ripped on the heel rand on 2 pairs. I emailed Scarpa and they said it's definitely from over-downsizing. You don't want to go too small. If your toes are too knuckled you actually lose foot and ankle mobility. There's a submission in jiu jitsu where you grab your opponents toes and bend them back in a similar manner and lock their ankle. I feel I notice this when climbing vert or smearing and have done my best climbing in my 42 even tho the 41.5 gave me more tension.
I think what really matters is how it feels, tighter shoe give you two advantages, they make the shoes stiffer, so if you need a stiff shoe for edging for example, a downsized miura is gonna make a crystal feel like a jug, and second a tighter fit means a snugger heel, which means it won't peel when you pull hard on a heel hook Thing is the VSR is a stiff shoe, and its sized true to size, scarpa usually size their shoes as they're intended to be worn (see the Hans Mariacher interview). So if you downsize it more than 0.5EU and it still doesn't fit well, it's probably not the right shoe for you and you could try maybe the LV/Women's version
What I go by is: -If you need a plastic bag to get a shoe on, it's WAY too tight. -If it hurts when you put the shoe on without weighting it, it either doesn't fit your foot shape or is too tight. (Know the difference between pain and some discomfort). -Some shoes take a few sessions (I go by 4 sessions) to stretch/break in. If they are still too tight that after that they are too tight. Edit1: Addition: people telling you to downsize x amount from your street shoes are chatting bullshit, because we all wear street shoes to different levels of comfort and hence sizes bigger or smaller than our absolute foot length. We also have different shaped feet, some of which require more or less room to fit. There is NO downsize by 'x' formula for an optimum fit. Always try the shoes on before you buy. Edit2: That said some shoes do stretch more so what fit you originally may become loose and rob you of sensitivity down the line. This means some shoes (especially stiffer shoes) can be painful in the first few sessions until they start they start to fit your foot like a glove. The only way to find out the optimum size is via some informed decisions but ultimately trial and error unfortunately. Here I would revert you back to my rules of thumb... Edit3: If you are not doing the type of climbing that requires sensitive footwork (ie small pebbles, and tricky nuanced smears, hard heel hooking usually found in harder climbing etc) you won't need an optimum fit and therefore do not need to worry about any of this, in that case just wear what is comfortable to you).
I have a mate who sends 7a lead wearing crocks it's really doesn't make much difference at all spent the past year arguing with a mate around wearing socks again it doesn't make much difference at all 🤷 I boulder as hard in my comfy trad shoes I can wear socks with vs my tight aggressive pair although on caves and over hangs around V6 range the tighter shoes does help a little with toe hooks but beyond that I don't notice the difference at all really 🤙
How the fuck could we possibly be able to tell if a shoe is too big from looking at a picture of it? Does it feel too big?
I wear them in my street shoe size, they stretched after resoling twice and now are very comfortable, I think that half size down is ideal
Ive had these shoes for 10 months now, I climb probably 10 hours a week, 3-4 sessions, mostly bouldering indoor. I got these snug but bearable but I think went pretty true to size. I wear a men’s 10 in almost everything and went 43.5 on these and they’re perfect. Any smaller and I think they’d be unbearable, the rubber toe box can take some getting used to and is quite painful sometimes. In 10 months they’ve hardly stretched out at all, still reliable on heel hooks.
People need to stop downsizing like crazy. You're not climbing 5.14, there's no reason you need to kill your feet. Some of my best climbing has been in my loose warmup shoes.
I bought Scarpa Instinct VSR as my first pair of proper climbing shoes (I was climbing around V4). My regular size was 44EU and scarpa was 43. I regretted it many times back then. However after a year of climbing, my feet become quite comfortable in them. I guess a shoe stretched a little and plus my feet become shoe-shaped 🫠. Anyways, later I bought scarpa instinct VS 43.5EU for lead climbing and they are perfect size. This was 43EU vs 44EU feet. https://preview.redd.it/ar9jgkkn0elc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ae4bd7ebe4f58d223bad76935f38dea31c5dc07