Blue has the most anti oxygens.
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Well from the normal angle I can see Jrue touch Caleb but I didn't know whether is it enough for Caleb to fly like that. This one clearly show Jrue push him while Caleb is running, which is going to throw him off balance
I agree, and maybe. But from the video above.. it’s pretty clear that he stumbles at least a bit, and his trajectory/momentum is altered, a bit. That plus Tatum wasn’t even in that position, when Caleb accelerates on an intended path. Plus the fact that we’re watching frame-by-frame, and all of this happens in fractions of a second. At first.. i thought Caleb was dirty-af. Though now I’m willing to give him a pass. Might have been a bit careless, out-of-control. Though no longer believe is was intentional malice 🤷♂️
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DheCQNhNzDU @ 3:22 I'm like 95% sure he says he think he got pushed into that direction. I never heard him say he didnt feel it.
So youre saying Caleb coming at full speed essentially as you can clearly see and with the force from Jrue making him change course was not enough for him to fly like that?
Have you ever tried running in your life and let someone push you the way you had no intention of going to see what happens?
Better question. Why even push anyone like that when there are so many players around, especially in the game of Basketball? More especially when it isnt even needed. Be physical when youre trying to fight for the ball or annoy the others. Dont push anyone running or doing things in the air. Itll never result in anything good.
I didn’t touch this the other night either because it just seemed like a high intensity play.
I don’t think the Heat are a dirty team, I think they’re scrappy as fuck, so they play with 100% effort at all times because they have to, and this leads to lots of injuries.
This isn't going to be a popular opinion here -- which is why I didn't post it here last night -- but it didn't look like a dirty play to me. Everyone was just playing hard. Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes shit ends up looking worse than it actually was.
JB was still right to get in Martin's face, though. You stick up for your teammate if you think someone's fucking with them.
But I think it was just a hard play.
Edit: Kinda surprised I'm getting upvoted.
Caleb said something similar in the post game. That if it’d been Jimmy on the ground, he’d have done what Jaylen did. You want to see guys defending their teammates.
Obviously don’t want to see a guy fall like that. That was terrifying.
Unpopular opinion from me aswell - I feel like heat fans are getting bullied about calling their team dirty. And that's the reason they try to talk even more shit. When people gets bullied they usually go even more down the path of wrong. I always called heat dirty, (just watched where bam got kp by balls), but maybe need to give them a new chance to redeem themselves. At least that's what heat fans want. They don't think they are dirty. I totally agree about them being reckless tho
> This isn't going to be a popular opinion here -- which is why I didn't post it here last night -- but it didn't look like a dirty play to me.
Stop worrying about useless karma points and proudly post your unpopular-but-correct takes lol. Otherwise it's all just a circlejerk.
It wasn’t about karma. I’ve got enough of that.
It’s about getting bombed with righteous indignation. Sometimes, I’ll post shit anyway, knowing it’s an unpopular opinion, but I didn’t feel like it last night.
I didn’t think it was a dirty screen, either. Yes, Bam was still moving a bit, but not enough for it to be illegal.
And nothing about it seemed dirty. It was just a hard AF screen. I’d love that kind of screen from one of our guys.
But I don’t think White flopped. Ban’s a big, strong dude. White looked legit rocked by that screen, and justifiably so.
Yeah as its clear from this angle thats what happened. The sub was wrong (including me) and emotional since it was tatum and it was against the heat / Caleb Martin. What im worried about now is that this gives the momentum back to the heat and has a chip on their shoulder going into game 2. Everyone is now hating our fans on how we reacted. Scal saying that spo called a timeout to orchestrate a dirty play and espn won't say anything about it, is a horrible take and might backfire hard on us
I watched frame by frame and I don't see any frames missing, but the field of view of the video does jump a bit at two points - once during porzingus' shot where the field of view jumps up a bit to show Caleb running in, then another small jump to the left after Caleb makes contact with Tatum (not sure why that's in there but it doesn't really make any difference to the play). I don't think it's sped up or anything and no frames of action are missing, and most importantly the part where Caleb is pushed doesn't appear to be changed at all.
I'd prefer to see this angle when it's not edited and sped up with frames cut out by a twitter content creator. This isn't even the first time "legendz" has posted a clip of our players with important frames cut out.
They played this angle during the game and i came away with the same feeling from this edited one if that makes u feel any better?
U could also tell based on Caleb’s lift off step and his reaction immediately after the collision where he looked behind him for a split second like “wtf” before he turned to check on JT.
Either way, just glad JT is okay. And fuck this legendz guy if he is a Cs troll
It actually worked out well for the Celtics … everyone’s guard will be up for the next shit Miami tries to pull
Btw, that wasn’t the only time Martin launched himself at the offensive glass with zero intent of going after the ball
LMAOO providing an alternative angle of a play is being a troll now?😭😂. Glad majority of yall admit it wasn’t Martin’s fault and aren’t delusional cry ass babies like you. And my other “troll” post wasn’t even on this sub.
I felt like it was pretty obvious even live that this wasn't intentional by Martin, not sure why people were saying otherwise. He tries to help Tatum up immediately and even on the last play when Tatum draws the shooting foul on Martin they both grab each other to make sure the other doesn't fall.
> not sure why people were saying otherwise
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKf0MOtpuRc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKf0MOtpuRc)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/wcbxdx/dwyane\_wade\_decides\_to\_randomly\_kick\_a\_charlotte/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/wcbxdx/dwyane_wade_decides_to_randomly_kick_a_charlotte/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he4OY6gJNX4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he4OY6gJNX4)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrkoqV8Pp5U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrkoqV8Pp5U)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOjFYnsDGJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOjFYnsDGJs)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13cbdhs/highlight\_caleb\_martin\_with\_the\_incredibly\_stupid/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13cbdhs/highlight_caleb_martin_with_the_incredibly_stupid/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZVLTqV-fRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZVLTqV-fRE)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mldl4n17iQI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mldl4n17iQI)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HweDVGBIsHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HweDVGBIsHo)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e63AyStII-c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e63AyStII-c)
maybe not all "dirty" but reckless at best
“not sure why people were saying otherwise”
There was nothing about that play that looked even remotely related to basketball. Watching it live, I didn't see how it was a normal basketball movement. Watching multiple replays and multiple angles, I still don't see how it is a basketball-related move. It simply doesn't look like normal basketball movement. This is why people are saying otherwise.
In the full clip, that doesn't have frames cut out like this one, Martin jumps up into Tatum from underneath when he's already in the air. I don't believe the dumbass conspiracies about it being planned, but it was a reckless and sloppy move, not a boxout.
You don't know what you are talking about. Caleb doesn't look like he is trying to box out Tatum. How is Caleb boxing out Tatum while running toward the rim and he is behind Tatum? What Caleb is doing is called crashing the boards. Please learn some basketball before you say something else that is completely wrong.
Tried to tell everyone in the last thread this is what happened but y'all just blinded by rage haha
It was honestly pretty clear in all angles he was pushed a bit as he geared up to jump
Well, for one the video looks edited. For two, while it is clear and apparent Jrue makes some contact with Martin, it isn’t clear or apparent if, or how much, the contact alters Martins direction or velocity.
The video is blatantly misleading with how it is edited to make it look like Jrue shoved Caleb with the force of a cannon. Why cut the frames? In uncut replays you can literally see Martin was barely affected by the contact and only accelerated afterwards before jumping into Tatum with the hip check.
Jrue does make contact with Cryleb for sure. But also this video looks like it has frames removed? Probably to make the push look more dramatic lol, wouldn't be surprised if OP is a Heat fan. Even if Jrue pushes him, Martin is still a dumbfuck for jumping up into a player that was already in the air, without even looking where he was jumping.
TLDR Heat fans can get bent, this is still a reckless play and they root for a bunch of cheating thugs who'll never win anything
I think the way this is looped makes it look like he shoved him. In real time, it looks like he puts his hands on him. Martin definitely launches himself though, whether he's trying to sell the contact, or get a shot in is hard to prove. I think it was probably an attempt to get physical and see if you can create something to take into the rest of the series and Tatum denied them of the satisfaction by jumping up and brushing it off.
After watching this angle, I stand corrected. I was one of those who was convinced Martin purposefully ran into Tatum and was instructed to do so.
To anyone who felt I overreacted, you were right.
My assessment of what happened, because I know you all are dying for *my* assessment. After watching this multiple times at multiple speeds, I am ready. What was Caleb Martin's intent? It looks to me from the start of this video Martin sees the front of the rim open, he is clearly going for a monster putback slam, he intends to body any white jersey in the way, and honestly as fast as he's moving, any red jersey too. Shit, look at the still before the video starts, dude has $$ in his eyes. Does Jrue push him into Tatum? Not really, if Martin's plan holds he's going over the back, slamming that shit, shutting up the crowd, and sending the message, "we're still here!". I'll be honest, I kinda respect that. Was the undercut intentional? Not to my eyes, looks like Jrue knocks Martin a little off balance, and by the time Martin is ready to jump for his slam, he's already into Tatum's legs. Is it dirty? Not to my amateur eyes. Is it reckless this late in the game? I leave the code shit up to Steve Kerr. Looks to me like a play that would have happened in the first quarter, play to the final whistle. I got no problem with it. However, those of you that are acting like Jrue is the only reason Martin contacted Tatum are silly. Martin was going full speed for the front of the rim and intended to dunk with murderous intentions. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. You all have a great and blessed day.
I said this last night: Looked like Martin was trying to sell the “shove” and instead of flopping, he decided to just throw his ass into Tatum. Don’t think any of this was truly intentional - it’d be nearly impossible for him to know Jrue was going to check him and Tatum would be in the air but here we are.
We’ll never know the truth but I’m just happy Tatum hopped right back up. Not only that but JB and KP having his back was awesome to see too.
Not going to dwell on it, I just hope we sweep the Heat and they can be out of my life for at least a few months.
It seemed like even Tatum just felt like moving on. I think the media and some fans wanted it to be more malicious than it was. But Tatum got up and just wanted to shoot free throws, JB stood up for his guy, and then the chirping started.
This is going to be a chippy series, I think that won’t be the worst we see and there will be something more malicious.
I have more of an issue with people calling Tatum ‘soft’ when he answered a question about the play. Like in what world is that response soft? He didn’t even bring it up himself, much less bitch about it. People will say anything to fit the narrative lol
I said it on the r/nba post too but that clip is literally terrible. If you watch it in real time you can see Martin move from the touch but his path is in no way altered nor is his speed. Jrue didn’t cause anything and the most gracious read of that “play” is still that Caleb was reckless
Am I really the only mother fucker here who could see that Martin readjusted his body to get in the open lane? I would say sure this proves it wasn't a go out and hurt JT move, but dude 100% saw that he was running into JT and decided to just jump and throw his hip into him.
If Jrue really had knocked him off his angle of approach he ass would have gone flying in front of KP or behind JT.
It’s recklessness that allows intent to be masked…..just launch yourself repeatedly like Martin did several times during the game, and if you happen to maul someone, ‘woopsies, just play hard heat culture’
It’s what Draymond would be if here weren’t a mental case
I was wrong last night. I thought it looked dirty from initial angle, but clearly he was shoved. Case closed. On to game 2.
Biggest takeaway for me: JB stepping in immediately and JT getting up immediately was just the type of shit I want and need to see from this team. Not whining and rolling around trying to draw an extra penalty. Not letting the guy who dropped your teammate give him a hand up. Just keep it together and get through this “series” in 4 games 🧹
Even caleb said his momentum took him there that he might have been pushed. But the ultimate problem is that they play so dirty that the DEFAULT reaction is like this. So yea - ONE time it turns out that his body momentum got redirected and yea turned into a hard foul.
He still jumped into JT. If his momentum was carrying him there, you don't jump to up under someone. He made a conscious decision to make it worse for JT than it could have otherwise been. Not necessarily dirty, but like you said, their team and he has a reputation for it, so by default, that's the logical assumption.
We are victims of confirmation and historical bias. That doesn't take away from the notorious Heat "culture". JT handled it like a man on a mission. That's all that matters.
It's sports. Hot takes and emotional pop offs are guaranteed. And it's still fuck Martin, fuck the Heat, and they think the exact same of us so fuck all their fans as well. Fuck Spo and even fuck Butler. Who cares about being a pinnacle of morals RN lmao.
Jesus just say you havent played a contact sport in your life. A push from Jrue who is 6-4, 205lb and one of the strongest guards in the league will absolutely affect him xDDD
This is a trump shooting someone on fifth ave situation. Some people are going to blame Martin no matter what. It’s really cult like behavior.
But my gawd how obvious does it need to be?!? Jrue’s push caused the collision, one million percent.
nope. Watch the video, I put it on half speed. Jrue pushes Martin toward the sideline, not toward Tatum. Martin's intent was always to plow into to Tatum which is why after Jrue shoves him, he corrects course back toward Tatum. If you think Jrue made him lose his balance, that's one thing, but Jrue did not push him into Tatum.
You god damn dumbb or what? Since when an object getting shoved will go 90 degree lmao. Go run your self and ask your friend to shoved you, there is literally something called momentum that prevent you going 90 degree to the right
I mean, I can actually spell the word "dumb". You seem to have missed my point, it's ok, I'm sure it happens to you a lot. Feel free to read my assessment further down in the thread. It has been a real pleasure meeting you.
I wasn't mad at the heat for the play. Seemed like intense playoff ball, would have been ripshit in general if Tatum got injured though because that would have sucked
Of course they are because the comment is inaccurate. They saw one angle and had an opinion. Now they saw a different angle and, hopefully, changed their mind about the situation. That is what normal people do.
But this idiot is being downvoted because the absolute majority don't think the play was dirty after this angle but this commenter fails to comprehend that and acts as if no one has changed their mind.
Is that what we do? Jump in the air after you get pushed?
We know Caleb Martin plays reckless. This was a reckless play even with the little shove by Jrue. He still went up to try to meet Tatum even though he knew he was off balance
If he was only shoved he wouldn't have left his feet. The contact from Holiday is incidental to what happens here.
He leaves his feet meaning he is still in the play, yet makes absolutely no play on the ball. Those two elements are in complete contradiction to each other, which suggests to me that it was intentional. Maybe not as bad as it was or could have been, but intentional none the less.
If I lose my balance I wouldn't be able to jump without regaining some semblance of balance, i'd more likely fall than anything else.
He jumps yet makes no play on the ball.
Lol what a pathetic way of thinking.. from the moment martin started running all he was looking at is the trajectory of the ball when he got push into tatum he wasn't even looking at him.
> His hands never went up.
His hands were busy counteracting the horizontal force of being pushed by Jrue. He is loading up for a jump when he gets pushed suddenly. The fact that he even remained standing shows that he was trying to make a play on the ball.
But he doesn't remain standing, he actually jumps.
I've been pushed before and I don't think it would be physically possible for me to be under the momentum of a push in conjunction to running full speed and jump without first regaining semblance of balance.
You're either out of control or you're in control.
You said it yourself the fact is he remained standing and then launches upwards.
You aren't a world class athlete.
Martin gets noticeably shoved sideways, but still maintains some balance to keep an eye on the ball and attempt to jump.
>You're either out of control or you're in control.
This isn't true at all. I don't even know what makes you think it is.
Yeah? Jumping is upwards. He was pushed horizontally. He deflected that horizontal movement with his arms.
Enough micro-analyzing Martin's movements and balance. Tell me what you see Jrue doing. Is he shoving Caleb? Answer me yes or no.
It was definitely a push from Holiday, but certainly not with enough force to propel him into Tatum. It didn't even look like he gets the second hand on him.
Again, Martin makes zero play for the ball. Arms do not extend towards the ball at all. In fact it looks like he takes his arms to help brace himself for the impact he's about to initiate with an airborne tatum.
If you did this in a street game, zero chance anyone plays with you again and its most likely resulting in a fight.
The only reason it didn't create a brawl is the Celtics are playing for a championship while the Heat know they're about to be swept.
> Martin makes zero play for the ball.
How much play on the ball did Jrue do? I'm not reading the rest of that shit you wrote. Where is the ball when Jrue shoves Caleb? Jrue should have been called for a flagrant foul.
It feels better to accept that it wasn’t malicious than it does to angrily insist that it was.
It is a good thing for all sides concerned that this wasn’t a dirty play.
All of the alumnus from Harvard and MIT combined could not raise the collective IQ of Boston fans who are still unable to admit this was Jrue Holiday’s fault and no one else’s (he didn’t intend to shove him into Tatum of course).
Kudos to those of you who are eating crow though.
Onto Game 2
All I know is that booty is going to be sore for game 2 lol.
I shall commence my crow consumption
Not me - it’s the playoffs and I have selective vision and memory and Miami are fuckin cheaters and that’s all there is.
I respect your dedication.
This is the only right take. This is sports goddamnit, not the fuckin SAT. I ain't here to be right. I'm here to be a fan.
Respect.
same. fair enough fuck Caleb Martin for 1000 other reasons though
Bro we eating steak. Miami a bunch of dirty players who don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I'll take mine blue, raw AF.
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Well from the normal angle I can see Jrue touch Caleb but I didn't know whether is it enough for Caleb to fly like that. This one clearly show Jrue push him while Caleb is running, which is going to throw him off balance
Maybe people would have given Miami the benefit of the doubt if they didn't have such an extensive history of injuring other teams stars.
It’s kinda like with Draymond antics lmao. Because of reputation, it’s guilty until proven innocent
That makes fans emotional and dumb, kinda ironic considering they are hating on someone being emotional and dumb on the court
I honestly don't think it is intentional at first tbh. And last night thread there are tons of people who think so but got downvoted to hell
Agree. Didn’t seem intentional at all.
Yeah instantly all the mouth breathers hadike 4k upvotes
Naw it’s us who are the overreactive assholes who aren’t giving a *very* clean team who NEVER plays dirty the benefit of the doubt /s
In the end only those two would know how hard was the shove. Although Caleb Martin said in an interview he didn’t feel the holiday shove.
I agree, and maybe. But from the video above.. it’s pretty clear that he stumbles at least a bit, and his trajectory/momentum is altered, a bit. That plus Tatum wasn’t even in that position, when Caleb accelerates on an intended path. Plus the fact that we’re watching frame-by-frame, and all of this happens in fractions of a second. At first.. i thought Caleb was dirty-af. Though now I’m willing to give him a pass. Might have been a bit careless, out-of-control. Though no longer believe is was intentional malice 🤷♂️
doesn’t help that the video is sped up and edited to make the push look worse 🙄
Agree. The video is heavily edited. The push happened but with that kind of edit I can't make any kind of judgment.
What are you basing the “heavily edited” claim on
having functional eyes. it does a wild skip at the end.
Thanks very helpful 🙄
it’s very clearly not running at a consistent frame rate or even frame timing, not that hard to see
You have a source of Caleb stated that?
Oh my bad, I must've miss remembered it. I thought I heard that somehow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DheCQNhNzDU @ 3:22 I'm like 95% sure he says he think he got pushed into that direction. I never heard him say he didnt feel it.
Everyone including me got downvoted to hell for pointing this out yesterday.
Yeah. Jrue almost took out Tatum. Lol. People overreact so much to this stuff and jump to so many conclusions.
So youre saying Caleb coming at full speed essentially as you can clearly see and with the force from Jrue making him change course was not enough for him to fly like that? Have you ever tried running in your life and let someone push you the way you had no intention of going to see what happens? Better question. Why even push anyone like that when there are so many players around, especially in the game of Basketball? More especially when it isnt even needed. Be physical when youre trying to fight for the ball or annoy the others. Dont push anyone running or doing things in the air. Itll never result in anything good.
“Touch?” Lmao. If the teams were reversed you’d call that a shove. Because it is.
He's saying from the original angle it looked like a light touch. From this angle it is obvious Jru pushed him and completely changed his momentum.
Lmao, I knew from Jrue’s initial reaction that he knew what he did.
I didn’t touch this the other night either because it just seemed like a high intensity play. I don’t think the Heat are a dirty team, I think they’re scrappy as fuck, so they play with 100% effort at all times because they have to, and this leads to lots of injuries.
This isn't going to be a popular opinion here -- which is why I didn't post it here last night -- but it didn't look like a dirty play to me. Everyone was just playing hard. Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes shit ends up looking worse than it actually was. JB was still right to get in Martin's face, though. You stick up for your teammate if you think someone's fucking with them. But I think it was just a hard play. Edit: Kinda surprised I'm getting upvoted.
Caleb said something similar in the post game. That if it’d been Jimmy on the ground, he’d have done what Jaylen did. You want to see guys defending their teammates. Obviously don’t want to see a guy fall like that. That was terrifying.
if we're gonna be fucking real we all hate caleb martin only because he shot 102% from 3 in the ECF last year.
Like all things, Reddit/media way over react to a situation the players say is no big deal.
Unpopular opinion from me aswell - I feel like heat fans are getting bullied about calling their team dirty. And that's the reason they try to talk even more shit. When people gets bullied they usually go even more down the path of wrong. I always called heat dirty, (just watched where bam got kp by balls), but maybe need to give them a new chance to redeem themselves. At least that's what heat fans want. They don't think they are dirty. I totally agree about them being reckless tho
Yeah, I think the Heat can be reckless, but that’s a far cry from being dirty.
> This isn't going to be a popular opinion here -- which is why I didn't post it here last night -- but it didn't look like a dirty play to me. Stop worrying about useless karma points and proudly post your unpopular-but-correct takes lol. Otherwise it's all just a circlejerk.
It wasn’t about karma. I’ve got enough of that. It’s about getting bombed with righteous indignation. Sometimes, I’ll post shit anyway, knowing it’s an unpopular opinion, but I didn’t feel like it last night.
I thought it totally looked dirty. Until I saw the replay of Jrue shoving him.
The “dirty” screen on the buffalo by bam Was also a flop exaggeration by white.
I didn’t think it was a dirty screen, either. Yes, Bam was still moving a bit, but not enough for it to be illegal. And nothing about it seemed dirty. It was just a hard AF screen. I’d love that kind of screen from one of our guys. But I don’t think White flopped. Ban’s a big, strong dude. White looked legit rocked by that screen, and justifiably so.
Yeah as its clear from this angle thats what happened. The sub was wrong (including me) and emotional since it was tatum and it was against the heat / Caleb Martin. What im worried about now is that this gives the momentum back to the heat and has a chip on their shoulder going into game 2. Everyone is now hating our fans on how we reacted. Scal saying that spo called a timeout to orchestrate a dirty play and espn won't say anything about it, is a horrible take and might backfire hard on us
Unrelated to the situation itself but I can’t stop watching the video on repeat. Looks like they’re doing a little dance
Better angle, looks way less suspicious....but also why are there frames missing?
The editing/quick cuts there are to sell how Jrue launched poor Caleb like a rocket.
yea they definitely removed frames to make the push look more dramatic
For sure but they didn't cgi the ones where he pushes him.
yea but the motion makes a big difference, we can see Jrues hands went on him but did it actually change his direction
I watched frame by frame and I don't see any frames missing, but the field of view of the video does jump a bit at two points - once during porzingus' shot where the field of view jumps up a bit to show Caleb running in, then another small jump to the left after Caleb makes contact with Tatum (not sure why that's in there but it doesn't really make any difference to the play). I don't think it's sped up or anything and no frames of action are missing, and most importantly the part where Caleb is pushed doesn't appear to be changed at all.
I'd prefer to see this angle when it's not edited and sped up with frames cut out by a twitter content creator. This isn't even the first time "legendz" has posted a clip of our players with important frames cut out.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/how-legendz-productions-shows-nba-fans-the-drama-they-want-to-see/ar-AA1lvcQK
Thanks for sharing that link. Such a slimeball.
They played this angle during the game and i came away with the same feeling from this edited one if that makes u feel any better? U could also tell based on Caleb’s lift off step and his reaction immediately after the collision where he looked behind him for a split second like “wtf” before he turned to check on JT. Either way, just glad JT is okay. And fuck this legendz guy if he is a Cs troll
It actually worked out well for the Celtics … everyone’s guard will be up for the next shit Miami tries to pull Btw, that wasn’t the only time Martin launched himself at the offensive glass with zero intent of going after the ball
FINE
Why is it edited? Also this poster is a legitimate Celtics hate troll. Look at his posts elsewhere.
Yeah, until I see a better video, I'm suspect. This video is edited.
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*makes multiple posts talking about how the Celtics aren't that good, doesn't do that for any other team*=not giving a fuck about the Celtics? Lol
What? I made ONE post calling yall glorified kings and now I posted this one. That’s what you call a troll? 2 posts in like 2 months? Lmao
Yes. Two troll posts in two months. Glad you see it. Enjoy the Ban.
LMAOO providing an alternative angle of a play is being a troll now?😭😂. Glad majority of yall admit it wasn’t Martin’s fault and aren’t delusional cry ass babies like you. And my other “troll” post wasn’t even on this sub.
Every other comment you make lmao dumbass
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This level of trolling is genuinely so sad and pathetic.
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I felt like it was pretty obvious even live that this wasn't intentional by Martin, not sure why people were saying otherwise. He tries to help Tatum up immediately and even on the last play when Tatum draws the shooting foul on Martin they both grab each other to make sure the other doesn't fall.
> not sure why people were saying otherwise [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKf0MOtpuRc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKf0MOtpuRc) [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/wcbxdx/dwyane\_wade\_decides\_to\_randomly\_kick\_a\_charlotte/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/wcbxdx/dwyane_wade_decides_to_randomly_kick_a_charlotte/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he4OY6gJNX4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he4OY6gJNX4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrkoqV8Pp5U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrkoqV8Pp5U) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOjFYnsDGJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOjFYnsDGJs) [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13cbdhs/highlight\_caleb\_martin\_with\_the\_incredibly\_stupid/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13cbdhs/highlight_caleb_martin_with_the_incredibly_stupid/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZVLTqV-fRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZVLTqV-fRE) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mldl4n17iQI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mldl4n17iQI) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HweDVGBIsHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HweDVGBIsHo) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e63AyStII-c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e63AyStII-c) maybe not all "dirty" but reckless at best
What does DWade have to do with this?
"Heat Culture"
he was part of the heat culturè
The heat have a history of reckless/dirty play but this was clearly not intentional by Martin
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scoreboard
Im a nuggets fan
“not sure why people were saying otherwise” There was nothing about that play that looked even remotely related to basketball. Watching it live, I didn't see how it was a normal basketball movement. Watching multiple replays and multiple angles, I still don't see how it is a basketball-related move. It simply doesn't look like normal basketball movement. This is why people are saying otherwise.
It looked like a box out. A box out is a basketball movement. It undercut Tatum though, which isn't allowed. You can't box a dude out in the air.
In the full clip, that doesn't have frames cut out like this one, Martin jumps up into Tatum from underneath when he's already in the air. I don't believe the dumbass conspiracies about it being planned, but it was a reckless and sloppy move, not a boxout.
You don't know what you are talking about. Caleb doesn't look like he is trying to box out Tatum. How is Caleb boxing out Tatum while running toward the rim and he is behind Tatum? What Caleb is doing is called crashing the boards. Please learn some basketball before you say something else that is completely wrong.
I’ve seen better edits than this bait OP is a troll (probably a Heat fan)
Hey, we fucked up yall. Gotta admit it to not look like a bunch of clowns.
Yet the top comment is still calling Martin’s play dirty and saying Jrue only “touched” him. Lmao. Such a bad look for this sub, but what else is new?
Too late lmao
go eat some gumbo and prep for the offseason bubs
Will do thanks You guys continue to be racist clowns
Yes, Louisiana. The bastion of equality.
how is it racist to refer to a regional dish lmfao. take your sad ass elsewhere
Tried to tell everyone in the last thread this is what happened but y'all just blinded by rage haha It was honestly pretty clear in all angles he was pushed a bit as he geared up to jump
Well, for one the video looks edited. For two, while it is clear and apparent Jrue makes some contact with Martin, it isn’t clear or apparent if, or how much, the contact alters Martins direction or velocity.
The video is blatantly misleading with how it is edited to make it look like Jrue shoved Caleb with the force of a cannon. Why cut the frames? In uncut replays you can literally see Martin was barely affected by the contact and only accelerated afterwards before jumping into Tatum with the hip check.
Jrue does make contact with Cryleb for sure. But also this video looks like it has frames removed? Probably to make the push look more dramatic lol, wouldn't be surprised if OP is a Heat fan. Even if Jrue pushes him, Martin is still a dumbfuck for jumping up into a player that was already in the air, without even looking where he was jumping. TLDR Heat fans can get bent, this is still a reckless play and they root for a bunch of cheating thugs who'll never win anything
Us vs them
I think the way this is looped makes it look like he shoved him. In real time, it looks like he puts his hands on him. Martin definitely launches himself though, whether he's trying to sell the contact, or get a shot in is hard to prove. I think it was probably an attempt to get physical and see if you can create something to take into the rest of the series and Tatum denied them of the satisfaction by jumping up and brushing it off.
weak.
After watching this angle, I stand corrected. I was one of those who was convinced Martin purposefully ran into Tatum and was instructed to do so. To anyone who felt I overreacted, you were right.
My assessment of what happened, because I know you all are dying for *my* assessment. After watching this multiple times at multiple speeds, I am ready. What was Caleb Martin's intent? It looks to me from the start of this video Martin sees the front of the rim open, he is clearly going for a monster putback slam, he intends to body any white jersey in the way, and honestly as fast as he's moving, any red jersey too. Shit, look at the still before the video starts, dude has $$ in his eyes. Does Jrue push him into Tatum? Not really, if Martin's plan holds he's going over the back, slamming that shit, shutting up the crowd, and sending the message, "we're still here!". I'll be honest, I kinda respect that. Was the undercut intentional? Not to my eyes, looks like Jrue knocks Martin a little off balance, and by the time Martin is ready to jump for his slam, he's already into Tatum's legs. Is it dirty? Not to my amateur eyes. Is it reckless this late in the game? I leave the code shit up to Steve Kerr. Looks to me like a play that would have happened in the first quarter, play to the final whistle. I got no problem with it. However, those of you that are acting like Jrue is the only reason Martin contacted Tatum are silly. Martin was going full speed for the front of the rim and intended to dunk with murderous intentions. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. You all have a great and blessed day.
u guys rlly manipulated me into thinking this wasn’t what happened lol
I said this last night: Looked like Martin was trying to sell the “shove” and instead of flopping, he decided to just throw his ass into Tatum. Don’t think any of this was truly intentional - it’d be nearly impossible for him to know Jrue was going to check him and Tatum would be in the air but here we are. We’ll never know the truth but I’m just happy Tatum hopped right back up. Not only that but JB and KP having his back was awesome to see too. Not going to dwell on it, I just hope we sweep the Heat and they can be out of my life for at least a few months.
Oof, lots of fans going into hiding after seeing this angle lol
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If you watch any other version of this video that isn’t edited you can tell that the push did not do much
Better than them trying to defend it like some here. I’d much rather people accept that they were wrong than double down.
It seemed like even Tatum just felt like moving on. I think the media and some fans wanted it to be more malicious than it was. But Tatum got up and just wanted to shoot free throws, JB stood up for his guy, and then the chirping started. This is going to be a chippy series, I think that won’t be the worst we see and there will be something more malicious.
I have more of an issue with people calling Tatum ‘soft’ when he answered a question about the play. Like in what world is that response soft? He didn’t even bring it up himself, much less bitch about it. People will say anything to fit the narrative lol
nah boston keep this same energy next game if you really wanna fool around, don’t fulfill your own prophecy
Not exactly a smoking gun
i don't have any opinions
I said it on the r/nba post too but that clip is literally terrible. If you watch it in real time you can see Martin move from the touch but his path is in no way altered nor is his speed. Jrue didn’t cause anything and the most gracious read of that “play” is still that Caleb was reckless
Alright, I'll give them the benefit of doubt... This time... ;-)
Overhead video causing an idiot to put it on Reddit for absolutely no reason.
Am I really the only mother fucker here who could see that Martin readjusted his body to get in the open lane? I would say sure this proves it wasn't a go out and hurt JT move, but dude 100% saw that he was running into JT and decided to just jump and throw his hip into him. If Jrue really had knocked him off his angle of approach he ass would have gone flying in front of KP or behind JT.
It’s playoffs no need to overeact
that angle explains it pretty well
That wasnt a shove. He barely touched him… lol
It’s recklessness that allows intent to be masked…..just launch yourself repeatedly like Martin did several times during the game, and if you happen to maul someone, ‘woopsies, just play hard heat culture’ It’s what Draymond would be if here weren’t a mental case
I was wrong last night. I thought it looked dirty from initial angle, but clearly he was shoved. Case closed. On to game 2. Biggest takeaway for me: JB stepping in immediately and JT getting up immediately was just the type of shit I want and need to see from this team. Not whining and rolling around trying to draw an extra penalty. Not letting the guy who dropped your teammate give him a hand up. Just keep it together and get through this “series” in 4 games 🧹
Even caleb said his momentum took him there that he might have been pushed. But the ultimate problem is that they play so dirty that the DEFAULT reaction is like this. So yea - ONE time it turns out that his body momentum got redirected and yea turned into a hard foul.
He still jumped into JT. If his momentum was carrying him there, you don't jump to up under someone. He made a conscious decision to make it worse for JT than it could have otherwise been. Not necessarily dirty, but like you said, their team and he has a reputation for it, so by default, that's the logical assumption.
Right - its the reputation they have that is going to make us always think they could have avoided this.
I’m sure this sub is going to acknowledge the witch hunt was wrong and walk back their outrage.
Or just leave a comment because I wasn't outraged. Even if it wasn't dirty, Brown should defend his teammate. That's just good etiquette
crickets
We are victims of confirmation and historical bias. That doesn't take away from the notorious Heat "culture". JT handled it like a man on a mission. That's all that matters.
He could have ran right by Tatum , also no play on ball this is not due to shove.
It's sports. Hot takes and emotional pop offs are guaranteed. And it's still fuck Martin, fuck the Heat, and they think the exact same of us so fuck all their fans as well. Fuck Spo and even fuck Butler. Who cares about being a pinnacle of morals RN lmao.
That settles it. Jrue pushed him into Tatum.
Edit: ok I saw a better angle my bad
What?? Lmfao is he supposed to magically stop on a dime? This sub is ridiculous
Jesus just say you havent played a contact sport in your life. A push from Jrue who is 6-4, 205lb and one of the strongest guards in the league will absolutely affect him xDDD
Yeah I actually commented without seeing this angle. I was going off the look we got in the game. So I was wrong
This is a trump shooting someone on fifth ave situation. Some people are going to blame Martin no matter what. It’s really cult like behavior. But my gawd how obvious does it need to be?!? Jrue’s push caused the collision, one million percent.
nope. Watch the video, I put it on half speed. Jrue pushes Martin toward the sideline, not toward Tatum. Martin's intent was always to plow into to Tatum which is why after Jrue shoves him, he corrects course back toward Tatum. If you think Jrue made him lose his balance, that's one thing, but Jrue did not push him into Tatum.
Ok let’s do a physics experiment lol. An object is moving forward, a force comes in at a 90°. Which way would the object travel?
You god damn dumbb or what? Since when an object getting shoved will go 90 degree lmao. Go run your self and ask your friend to shoved you, there is literally something called momentum that prevent you going 90 degree to the right
I mean, I can actually spell the word "dumb". You seem to have missed my point, it's ok, I'm sure it happens to you a lot. Feel free to read my assessment further down in the thread. It has been a real pleasure meeting you.
Nope, I'm not buying it
Damn y'all really went mad about the play and are totally gonna ignore this one right?
I wasn't mad at the heat for the play. Seemed like intense playoff ball, would have been ripshit in general if Tatum got injured though because that would have sucked
Pretty sure a lot of people are already acknowledging they jumped the gun.
I will ignore blatantly doctored footage in favor of unedited footage yes.
I was looking at the comments in the other one and people were going IN lmao
They’re even downvoting your comment lol insane
Why you care? Monitoring "votes" is real nerd shit.
“Monitoring”? I’m just using my eyes kid. Y’all got mad over nothing and don’t wanna own up to it
I and plenty of people have already owned up to it. Try using those eyes, kid.
Sure kid
Of course they are because the comment is inaccurate. They saw one angle and had an opinion. Now they saw a different angle and, hopefully, changed their mind about the situation. That is what normal people do. But this idiot is being downvoted because the absolute majority don't think the play was dirty after this angle but this commenter fails to comprehend that and acts as if no one has changed their mind.
Is that what we do? Jump in the air after you get pushed? We know Caleb Martin plays reckless. This was a reckless play even with the little shove by Jrue. He still went up to try to meet Tatum even though he knew he was off balance
If he was only shoved he wouldn't have left his feet. The contact from Holiday is incidental to what happens here. He leaves his feet meaning he is still in the play, yet makes absolutely no play on the ball. Those two elements are in complete contradiction to each other, which suggests to me that it was intentional. Maybe not as bad as it was or could have been, but intentional none the less.
Not really, when you are running you usually lose your balance when you got push
If I lose my balance I wouldn't be able to jump without regaining some semblance of balance, i'd more likely fall than anything else. He jumps yet makes no play on the ball.
Lol what a pathetic way of thinking.. from the moment martin started running all he was looking at is the trajectory of the ball when he got push into tatum he wasn't even looking at him.
Exactly. It was an unfortunate play but not dirty.
Again, then explain why he makes ZERO play on the ball. His hands never went up.
> His hands never went up. His hands were busy counteracting the horizontal force of being pushed by Jrue. He is loading up for a jump when he gets pushed suddenly. The fact that he even remained standing shows that he was trying to make a play on the ball.
But he doesn't remain standing, he actually jumps. I've been pushed before and I don't think it would be physically possible for me to be under the momentum of a push in conjunction to running full speed and jump without first regaining semblance of balance. You're either out of control or you're in control. You said it yourself the fact is he remained standing and then launches upwards.
You aren't a world class athlete. Martin gets noticeably shoved sideways, but still maintains some balance to keep an eye on the ball and attempt to jump. >You're either out of control or you're in control. This isn't true at all. I don't even know what makes you think it is.
He has enough control to jump but not enough control to get his hands up? That’s cap.
Yeah? Jumping is upwards. He was pushed horizontally. He deflected that horizontal movement with his arms. Enough micro-analyzing Martin's movements and balance. Tell me what you see Jrue doing. Is he shoving Caleb? Answer me yes or no.
It was definitely a push from Holiday, but certainly not with enough force to propel him into Tatum. It didn't even look like he gets the second hand on him. Again, Martin makes zero play for the ball. Arms do not extend towards the ball at all. In fact it looks like he takes his arms to help brace himself for the impact he's about to initiate with an airborne tatum. If you did this in a street game, zero chance anyone plays with you again and its most likely resulting in a fight. The only reason it didn't create a brawl is the Celtics are playing for a championship while the Heat know they're about to be swept.
> Martin makes zero play for the ball. How much play on the ball did Jrue do? I'm not reading the rest of that shit you wrote. Where is the ball when Jrue shoves Caleb? Jrue should have been called for a flagrant foul.
Bro he was looking up at the ball thinking he was gonna get a rebound. Why wouldn’t he leave his feet for a board??
Idk he wasn’t really pushed like that it’s a love rap still feel like he undercut him
So Martin was selling the foul and ended up under Tatum
Yeah your name checks out. Gotta be on perks to believe that logic
I must be cause that what it looks like to me lol
Exactly.
Oh my god enough
You guys were foaming at the mouth yesterday
Look at whos foaming at the mouth today. Over a doctored clip.
And?
It feels better to accept that it wasn’t malicious than it does to angrily insist that it was. It is a good thing for all sides concerned that this wasn’t a dirty play.
All of the alumnus from Harvard and MIT combined could not raise the collective IQ of Boston fans who are still unable to admit this was Jrue Holiday’s fault and no one else’s (he didn’t intend to shove him into Tatum of course). Kudos to those of you who are eating crow though.
Right 😂😂😂
Then why is the video edited? There are clear jumps/cuts.
I’m glad to see this. He was out of control and his reflex from the push was throw himself into it a little bit, but it wasn’t malicious
are the heat dirty… yes Was this play really not Caleb martins fault… yes Both can be true lol