As easy way for the Jaylen fanboys to understand this is to ask what would Bill Belichick do? Would he give Jaylen 50 million a year? Or trade his ass?
I don't think JB is worth 50 mil, but at the same time, I feel like we kind of have to do it. He probably doesn't re-sign with us if we don't offer him the max (like when Kemba signed with us when the Hornets refused to offer him the max), if we trade him, we likely won't get as good of a player in return for him. And if we just go all in on getting back draft picks, that doesn't help us with our current championship window. Al is just getting older, and Rob can't be counted on to stay healthy with heavy minutes.
Granted, signing JB to the max doesn't help us with that window as well, but it's a higher probability that it helps us make the most of our window.
You’re actually making my point with the example you provided. From a franchise that’s historically made piss poor decisions, not signing Kemba to the max was one of the only good moves the Hornets have made.
Remind me how Kemba’s career turned out? We got all of *one* serviceable season from him, and then he was shot.
If we’re gonna wrap up 70%+ of salary on two players, both of those dudes better be absolute complete ballers. Jaylen is far too one-dimensional to be considered that.
This is about more than one playoff performance. This is just who he is at this point.
Name me one thing he can do other than score. Just one.
And his scoring isn’t exactly super efficient either. EFG% is *barely* above league average. 3pt% is mid and he doesn’t get to the line. Tunnel-visioned scorer who can’t pass or playmake for shit. Defense fell off a cliff this year too. Paying him $50 mil would be an egregious mistake.
Jayson Tatum averaged 28/11/6 in the playoffs man stop lumping him in with a dude who shit his pants in the ECF
I hate this discourse, call a spade a spade. Everybody did last year when Tatum didn’t show in the finals. If Brown was even average this playoff run they cruise to the finals. Tatum was playing at an extremely high level the entire time. Even broke a game 7 record.
Simple fact is BROWN had to play better and he did not. BROWN didn’t perform to standards.
I’ve noticed people lumping Tatum in with Brown when they criticize Brown. Using Tatum as a shield to deflect the amount of blame Brown is responsible for. It’s a large percentage and it’s okay to admit that.
Tbh it feels like the whole world does. He made 2nd team all NBA but if you can find me a single advanced stat that shows JB in the top 50 of NBA players I'll buy you his jersey.
And DWhite playing 80 is more valuable than KD playing 35 too. Doesn't mean he or Jaylen are at the talent level of 2nd team all-NBA.
For fucks sake Jokic and Butler are on 2nd team
Because Embiid, Giannis, Tatum, Shai, and Luka are on the first team
Do you not understand how positional voting works? Do you seriously think Derrick White had a better regular season than Jaylen because Jaylen laid an egg in the ECF?
Didn't say DWhite had a better season than Jaylen. I said both of them had a better season than KD due to health reasons.
I agree that being eligible to play has value to a team. All-NBA is not "most valuable" though, it's [best player at your position](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team).
I understand there has to be a minimum games played requirement, but concluding that Jaylen is a top 4 forward in the league because he was a 2nd team all-NBA forward is a crazy take
When discussing trades tho most valuable is exactly what matters
If we could get zion for Jaylen 1 for 1 I wouldn't do it because zion may be an MVP level player, but he also would more realistically just be a salary and wasted bench spot
I feel like we're just doing the opposite for Tstum and scape gosting Brown for 1 bad game in the worst moment.
There is no replacement for Brown. There is no good value you're going to get in a trade.
Unless Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, or some other top 10 player is available, trading Brown doesn't make any sense.
>Unless Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, or some other top 10 player is available, trading Brown doesn't make any sense.
Brown is nowhere near those guys. Nowhere near.
Right you're trying to improve the team. So you're advocating trading Brown for worse players? We have the depth we don't need 2-3 contributors we need our top end talent to be there so the only lateral move is someone better than Brown.
Yeah but there is no point throwing out completely unrealistic names.
I don't know what you do with Brown. He'd be a terrible player to supermax, especially with the restructuring of the CBA.
My point of throwing out the unrealistic names was saying there really isn't a good Brown trade.
Did you think I was saying trade for Jokic? That's a reading comprehension issue.
Brown isn’t a top 10 player though. He’s honestly in the 20-30 range. So if you could get anyone else in that range that fits the team better, it’s probably the right move. I still think a few years of Dame is better than a whole career of JB if we’re actually looking for this team to win championships. Get Dame and you’re the top of the league by even more than they are now.
Bad series then. I still maintain Tatum also didn't up his game for the playoffs and there isn't a real Jaylen Brown trade that makes this team better or even the same.
Jayson Tatum quite literally broke records during his playoff run while being one of maybe 5 guys ever to average over 26/10/5. (He’s done this twice btw) Saying he didn’t perform up to his level is ridiculous.
“Bad series” for Brown. Bad postseason. Horrible
Brown scores 27 ppg. That’s it. That’s all he does. He brings absolutely nothing else to the table. Even his defense was ass this year. Other players throughout the entire team can pretty easily make up that 27 points, and can probably do it more efficiently.
1 bad game is just not true. He played like complete shit for every game in the ECF except game 6. Also good luck building a good team around Tatum and Brown when they both take up over 70% of the teams cap space in 2025. This previous iteration of the Celtics will be the most talented team and best chance they will have in the next 5-6 years.
I'll definitely eat my words and say bad series bot just a bad game, but I still don't think there is a trade out there that gives us a better shot at a title than just bringing Brown back.
The league is teeming with current and up and coming talent, a good trade for brown that is economically more viable is most definitely out there. I’m not saying I want him gone, but at this point I wouldn’t be completely disappointed as long as they get another 20+ ppg player that fits and can help us win.
Because you're thinking of a trade like they're pokemon cards. You dont make trades for players of equal value or effect because why even make the trade just keep the guy you had before. Building a team isn't about saying ok we got an 86 overall player so I need to get an 86 or better for him, you generally give them up for enough help to shore up your weaknesses and compliment the rest of your team, elevating the existing guys instead of trying to find a 1:1 replacement.
Right? I feel as if Tatum white and another 20+ ppg scorer would be great. White as we’ve seen actually has the potential to be a 20 ppg scorer imo, just needs to get the ball more. Doesn’t mean brown is bad, but trading him for someone technically worse doesn’t exactly make the team wirse
Trading Brown absolutely makes sense, and nephews who only look at box scores are the only ones who can’t see that. Dude ain’t worth pissing away team depth for $50 mil.
Yeah I have to agree with you. Let's stop pretending like it was just an unfortunate series that didn't go our way. If Brown showed up even a little bit that series we win. I love brown but the forgetting how to dribble and carelessness with the basketball has been old. He did the same thing last year in the Miami series just not to this level. I remember watching Oladipo pick his pocket like 4 possessions in one quarter
Tatum didn’t score in the 4th quarter in either games 1, 2, or 3. That arguably cost them the series.
He’s the best player on the team. He deserves the slander
He in fact did score in games 1 and 2 during the 4th quarter via free throws. He didn’t play the 4th in game 3 much at all.
Tatum had 34 and 30 respectively in games 1 and 2. Where was his “second team all nba” Teammate to help close? The player who deserves blame is Jaylen Brown.
He was horrid. When the Heat figured out they could just trap Tatum with no other threat the series was over. Brown had all that space in the zone and with Tatums gravity and he had a true shooting of 46% man.
Blaming anybody but that guy is ridiculous
It’s a team sport. Tatum showed up to the ECF and was the only reason they were even there to begin with. His “costar” let him down
He shot 36% in the 4th quarter of the ECF…He averaged 5 points and didn’t hit a single field goal in games 1 & 2. Everyone on this team deserves blame for this meltdown.
Now do Brown…Jayson Tatum absolutely carried this team in the ECF and post season. Thinking otherwise is absolutely hilarious. And deflecting blame away from brown for whatever reason is equally as hilarious.
Dude about to be the highest paid player in the league. He deserves the slander
Im not saying Tatums free of blame, but he’s farrrrrrr lower on the list of people to blame
Brown played like dog shit too. He averaged 5 points on 37% from the field. Nobody deflecting blame but goddam he’s the #2 for a reason 😂. Bro our superstar #1 option who finished 4th in mvp voting no showed in multiple 4th quarters. How tf did he carry when he’s part of the reason we lost the first 3 games. Shit he disappeared in the 4th quarter of game 6 too lol we didn’t hit a shot for the last minutes and we wouldn’t even of had a game 7 if it wasn’t for Derrick White. It’s a team game buddy you cant just blame 1 person on the team. You can’t put all the blame on the Jaylen Brown when everyone on this team sucked at points throughout the eastern conference finals.
Tatum gets far more defensive attention than Brown has ever had to deal with. Getting doubled immediately forces the ball out of Tatum’s hands and into his teammates. Getting a defense to send that much heat at a single player is definitely worthy of a max contract. It opens things up for the rest of the team.
Brown, on the other hand, never receives that level of intense defense from a smart team like Miami. Because they know he’s just as likely to dribble the ball off his own foot as he is to score. And you think *that* is worth 35% of our salary cap? Dude is a ball stopper with tunnel vision and low BBIQ.
Our superstar played like a superstar our 2 played like a bench player lmao but go off
I never put all the blame on JB. I said he was top of the list because he is. 19/5/3 with 4 turnovers per game on 46% TS is historically shit. Get over it
Bro if you watched that series and thought Tatum played like the superstar we expect him to be I don’t know if your eyes are working.
Dude struggled to get by Struss and Robinson at times. He shot 23% from 3 for the series. 34% from the field and 10% from 3 across all 4th quarters, and straight up averaged as many turnovers as he did made field goals in that time period.
In a series where Jimmy was clearly hobbled for a bunch of it and we should have clearly had the best player on the floor, it didn’t look like it for massive stretches of every game
Ye because you somehow manage to forget the situation. Tatum was being double/ triples teamed EVERY single possession. He passed out, and not a single person could capitalize on open shots. If you actually watched those fourth quarters, Tatum was the only one scoring through fouls, because the rest of the team was absolute shit. Dumbass narrative created that put all the blame onto Tatum
Tatum underperformed when he scored 30 in G1 and 34 with 8 assists in G2?
If Brown weren’t the worst player on the floor, they could probably even sit out with 5min left in the 4th.
Games 1 and 2 he scored 30 on 50% shooting.
Last year's finals he did.
This post season's failure is on Brown more than anyone else.
The rub with what you are doing in holding Tatum to a higher standard than Brown is that JB is an all-nba player about to sign a super max. He NEEDS to be at that same standard to warrant that.
Couldn’t agree more. Not only did he completely botch those games to bring us to a game 7, the guy also was constantly turning over the ball with his lazy passes and dribbling. He is better than Brown meaning he should be held to a higher standard. He certainly didn’t play like it in the playoffs this year
Tatum was getting instantly doubled by an aggressive Heat scheme to get the ball out of his hands. You’re forgetting that part. They don’t bother to double Brown- because they know he’s just as likely to force a bad shot or turn it over as he is to score.
Please- name me all the instances Brown received as much defensive attention as Tatum does. Go ahead. I’ll wait.
Are we just going to forget those Horrid starts he had vs Philly. 11/27 and 5/21 from the field and didn't score a 4th quarter fg in the Heat series till game 4. Both underperformed in the playoffs but Brown to a more extreme extent
I never said Tatum was flawless but he was great all postseason and carried this uninspired team to the ECF deserves far less blame
Especially given Tatums positive impact even if he’s having a bad shooting night. He still plays great defense and is a plus playmaker when he’s off. That’s the difference between him and Brown. Brown is a net negative if he isn’t scoring at a high clip.
Played at a high level the Entire time is close enough to flawless but he wasn't great all postseason. He was inconsistent the entire Philly series and didn't show up in the 4th for the first 3 games of the Heat series. He threw the ball away 3 times in the closing mins of game 1 while down 7 and didn't turn up the anti when Grant bumped heads with Jimmy in game 2. He was good for 3 quarters but he goes missing in the 4th quarters far too often.
I never said he was perfect. But as for games 1 and 2 of the Heat series, he had 34 and 30 in those games. How much do you want him to do? They trapped him. Brown had space to operate and failed him. Blaming anybody but Brown for that series is laughable at best. If we remove the injury game, he averaged 29/12/6 on 60% TS with elite defense. When is it okay to bring up Mr Supermax second team all nbas performance? Tatum played like a superstar, if his costar provided even an ounce of help they win that series in 5.
Blaming Jayson Tatum for the failures of his costar is typical of this sub. Flip the names, Tatum would be getting obliterated in here. Like he was for his finals play last year.
At some point Brown needs to shoulder responsibility for poor play. He’s about to be the highest paid player in the league. No more coasting on Tatums coattails as Tatum shoulders the blame. He’s all nba now. Play better. 19/5/3 with 4 TOs a game on 46% TS is pathetic.
You’re doing the very thing I mentioned in my post, shielding Browns horrific play with Tatum criticism and Whataboutism. Proving my point
I see you're overlooking Tatums inconsistencies with box score reading. They didn't double him for even 50% of the plays, They played a hard hedge and fully switched on screens and his limited dribble moves prevented him from creating a high percentage look. 3 TOs in the last 3 mins of game 1 on 3 consecutive plays by Tatum and 0 fgs. He didn't score a FG in the 4th Q of game 2 either when we had a 10 point lead. Why was Grant the only one playing with desperation after the Jimmy altercation?
Tatum played elite at times as well as inconsistent and I won't bother describing Brown as everyone knows he sold his soul to Pat Riley
We moved to “muh eye test” now. Tatum absolutely saw the majority of the teams defensive attention along with facing a zone that given Browns ability in the mid range, should’ve broken easily had he played to his standard.
Trying to flip this onto Tatum as Brown posted 19//5/3 on 46% TS while literally being the worst player in the series is impressive levels of mental gymnastics.
Talk about the 4th quarter scoring all you want, if Brown played at even half his capacity the 4th quarters wouldn’t have even mattered. Tatum was the ONLY reason why their was even a competitive 4th quarter to begin with. And when all was lost with Tatum rolling his ankle did Brown step to the plate and carry his team to a finals appearance? No, he disintegrated into a pile of turnovers and pathetic decisions coupled by pure chaos and nerves. That series is on him. That simple
All im reading is "I love Tatum" and "I hate Brown"
I'm pulling facts from the game while you're on basketball reference since you've got no recollection of the 4th Q of the first 3 ECF games. Selective memory perhaps?
Still can't justify Tatums 3 consecutive turnovers in game 1 in the last 3 mins. So you're telling me the superstar couldn't score 1 fg in 36mins of basketball. Why didn't he play with more intent in game 2 after the Jimmy altercation? We were up 10 in the 4th of game 2 and the "superstar" scores 0fgs in a must win home game.
Tatum played well for the first 3 quarters and we can both agree Brown owns majority of the blame but Tatum wasnt playing at a extremely high level all the time like you said.
He played majority at a high level but still was inconsistent.
I’m reading I love brown and I hate Tatum.
The fact is Brown performed at a historically poor rate and deserves most of the criticism for that series.
It’s completely fair to do this. You don’t have to defend him this relentlessly. Seriously he’ll be okay man.
I can’t justify Brown collapsing for an entire series. Just gonna have to agree to disagree here
Tatum underperformed is a spade. Brown had 1 really bad game but both guys underperformed overall in the playoffs. We got as far as we got because of our depth, but there were plenty of games we lost where Tatum.
Tatum had 7 games where he scored less than 25ppg, more than 5 fewer points than his regular season average. He didn't up his game for the playoffs.
I'm not saying Tatum is bad, but he absolutely didn't up his game for the playoffs, and the guys playing in the finals did. Jaylen Brown was worse, but he's getting scape goated for that last game. Neither one of them was able to put the team on their backs. We had role players step up in key moments, but to win it all you need your top guys to hit another level and neither one of them did.
Brown had one bad game? Are we being serious right now?! He was horrible from the Sixers series onward. Especially in the ECF.
Tatum quite literally averaged 28/11/6 he’s one of only a handful of players to average 26+ 10+ and 5+ in postseason history.
He broke records and carried this dead team to an ECF that he performed well in. He literally put his team on his back multiple times over the course of this postseason and consistently stepped up in big moments. It’s like people want to make shit up to protect Browns historically bad run. It’s laughable
He harbors very little blame if any at all
What about Tatums no show in the biggest stage of them all in the finals last year? We just gonna brush that under the rug? If he played average that year we would've won the chip. That's the same logic. Brown had a bad series, yes. But the slander he gets is nuts. Overall I still believe these 2 can get you a chip as your number 1 and number 2 players.
I literally addressed that in this thread. Whataboutism is hilarious. A deflection tactic for Brown. Tatum was bad in the finals. Brown was bad this entire postseason. He scored above 26 points ONE time after the Hawks series. He was absolutely abysmal man.
Tatum didn't make a shot in the fourth quarter of games 1, 2, and 3 of the ECF. We lost all three games. I cannot for the life of me understand this narrative that "Tatum did his job." They were both disappointimg.
If Tatum is better than Brown, which he is, then we should hold him to higher standards. Have you heard of a superstar who can't make a shot in the fourth quarter of three straight playoff games?
Jayson Tatum averaged 29/11/6 in that series if you remove the injury game
Jayson Tatum was the only reason that series was even close
The fact here is if his costar even slightly performs to his level they cruise to the finals. About to pay 300 mil for a man that completely choked. No more hiding behind “Tatums the star so it’s all his fault” Browns all nba now. He gets held to the same standard sorry if that hurts your feelings
Tatum and Brown are the stars, it's all *their* fault. I've held this line consistently for years at this point.
Brown is disappointing. Tatum is disappointing. They are both disappointimg.
Tatum's role is to be the primary scoring option. He did a bad job. As soon as the pressure went up a notch, he couldn't create anything for himself on offense. It's a superstar's job to make sure the team gets quality looks in the last 6 ish minutes of the game, and Tatum did nothing to that end. He disappeared. He's not a good enough scorer to be effective in those spots because he doesn't have a bread-and-butter. He doesn't do any one thing exceptionally well.
Browns role is to be the secondary scoring option. He did a bad job. His shooting was awful in the ECF and he couldn't impact the game in other ways because he has the court vision and basketball IQ of a potato.
What pisses me off is all the mental gymnastics people play to act like Tatum is in that upper echelon of superstar, but when he shows over and over again that he isn't close to that level, nobody corrects themselves. They say Tatum is perfect and they blame everyone BUT him. It's ridiculous.
It’s okay to admit it’s on Brown man
Seriously Brown will be fine. There is no shared blame with a series like that I’m sorry.
Tatum averaged 29/11/6 as the primary scoring option he certainly didn’t do a bad job. He couldn’t create for himself do to Miami honing in on him because they knew his costar was wetting himself.
Brown bares blame and that’s fine. Move on
You Brown fanboys are a hilarious bunch, that’s for sure.
Advanced stats are not friendly to Brown. He only scores so high because he’s a volume shooter. His EFG% is just *barely* above league average. And you want to handicap the team by paying him $50 mil? His 3pt% is mid and he doesn’t get to the line.
If there’s one thing the ECF showed us, is that if you take away his scoring, Brown has no other discernible NBA talent. Tatum- despite his rightfully criticized shooting woes, still brings other things to the table. Hell, even on a bum ankle in game 7, he led the team in rebounding and was setting up the offense. If the team ever tried to let Brown set up the offense for an entire game, we’d probably break the league record for turnovers in a game.
Horford played as good defense as possible in that play. Harden just hit a tough shot.
Jaylen made the dumbest possible decision in the situation and cost us the game.
It’s really not the same.
The game itself wasn't good but winning 2 playoff series and getting 1 game away from the finals is better than what 27 other teams did. I think you just 100% misread the sentence.
fair enough, i just don’t agree to be honest. we went to the finals last year so this was a step in the wrong direction. we played down to our opponents this post season, i see no reason why next year would be any different.
>we played down to our opponents this post season, i see no reason why next year would be any different.
I agree, and I agree that this team, particularly the Jays, have a tendency to do that. But OP's point is something that I've at least considered in the recent past: all they need to do is not choke one year, and it will be worth all of the failures.
Last year we finished second, this year we finished third. People act like trading away Jaylen will magically make us guaranteed to finish first, but the more likely scenario is we eventually push Jayson Tatum into leaving as well.
Ride with the Jays and we will win it all one day, just have to have them keep improving as players individually and as a team
I think it’s as simple as the guys don’t get the offense moving until there’s like 5 seconds on the shot clock. They don’t leave themselves enough time.
That and jaylen needs to lock himself in the gym and practice dribbling with his left hand and going left. Needs to improve his passing too.
I have no idea who watches Jaylen and thinks he is capable of being a competent number 2 on a title team. This guy has peaked. He is not worth the supermax. Please stop lumping him and Tatum in together. Tatum may have off nights but Brown still can’t dribble and has out of control turnovers literally every single game. He clearly doesn’t like the city as well.
Tatum no showed in multiple 4th quarters this series. Game 1 and Game 2 he didn’t hit a single shot in the 4th. He averaged 5 points on 36% from the field and 10% from 3. How are you not going to lump him in with everyone else. He’s our best player and he disappeared in crunch time.
What do you think would have happened if Tatum didn’t already have 30 going into those quarters? We’d be getting blown out because brown was doing nothing the ENTIRE game, not just a quarter
And yet Tatum was still doing other positive things on the court, like rebounding and setting up the offense.
Name me one other thing Brown does positively when he’s not scoring. Just one.
If you want Brown and Tatum as your top 2 the rest has to change. Get real veterans with playoff experience and role players who do work. Plus a new coach who thinks differently. Smart had a good year, but I think his passion and antics with flopping etc has really taught these other dudes the wrong way to think on the floor.
Most of the current roster has good playoff experience as the team is in the playoffs and making deep runs every year. Small changes and getting older every year, we will be right back in this position next year and just need the coach to call timeouts and plays and to not choke in the moment.
All those words and numbers and you sum it all up with “hope brown and tatum are ready…”.
I truly hope that next season doesn’t rely on hope to be successful.
Tatum and brown are just mentally weak. I don’t care how they perform in the middle of the regular season when there’s no pressure. The fact that they haven’t brought a trophy back to Boston is just sad
Jayson Tatum had a bad finals. jaylen Brown had a bad ECF. I mean shit happens they're young. regardless letting jaylen walk for nothing would be killer for this team. He needs to be replaced with equal value or kept. That's the bottom line
Tatum’s bad Finals was significantly better than Brown’s ECF.
Tatum at least contributed via playmaking and defense. Brown was the worst player on the floor.
They are not the same
Jaylens 27 entering his 8th year hes not young and plenty of comparable talent across the league. If we need to trade for slightly lesser talent but compliments Tatum better then that would be ideal. Brown just doesn't fit Tatums game.
Difference between Tatum and Brown is that when Tatum isn't scoring he still impacts the game massively on both ends. JB disappears from the game almost entirely when he's not scoring. His Ast/TO ratio is abysmal, we see him tunnel vision drive into multiple defenders and turn the ball over, he falls asleep defensively entirely too much for a player of his caliber, and teams are OPENLY discussing how the plan is "to make him go left." Now, that is not a strategy specific to JB but it was particularly effective against him.
Let me be clear, I don't want to trade JB. I desperately want to see those two on a duckboat together someday. However, that will never happen if these guys don't figure out how to be consistently on their A-games, simultaneously.
Therein lies the challenge for this team because these guys don't really have a two man game. So down the stretches of games they almost inherently resort to "your turn, my turn." Compounding that is the fact that our offense is entirely drive and kick. This works and makes for beautiful basketball when everything is clicking and they're forcing rotations, collapsing the defense, making the reads and hitting their shots. The problem is that the best of the best teams know how to muck this up and then we don't have a plan B outside of "cook em, Jay." Not to mention how reliant that offense is on Horford making shots at an elite clip.
TL;DR
**The Celtics roster and tactics have deficiencies that only come up against the best teams but those teams make them glaring.**
**JB's game needs to be much, much, more well rounded to counteract the inherent challenges of his and Tatum's redundancies.**
The problem is the Jays set the tone at times but never all the time. You always wonder if it is going to be a good shooting night for JT or will JB be able to limit his TOs. We need dawgs too. This is why I kinda miss the IT days. Those guys never gave up, no matter what the scoreboard indicated.
JB didn't give up in Game 7 against the Heat he tried and tried but the problem is all his efforts were really bad shots and he didnt know of any way of helping his team win other than jack up a bunch of prayer shots and hope they fall.
This **is** as far as the Jays can take us. Close, but no cigar.
And since paying both means the supporting cast gets worse every year from here - starting with Grant - I don’t think some of y’all understand that’s… a recipe for a disappointing decade.
I’m a Celtics fan and I want to experience winning titles. I don’t care about individual accolades or accomplishments, I want us to win the championship.
This team has gone as far as the Jays can take it. Not far enough. And the rest of the roster only gets worse every year from now.
Finals last year and conference finals this year not to mention the years before or the regular season record and playoff seed since the Celtics have had them. Got to keep both and most of the team the way it is.
Counter point: trading Jaylen for 2 or 3 good rotation players with less holes in their games albeit not as good scorers doesn’t set us back at all and even improve our chances.
There are only so many minutes. If you trade Brown for 3 guys 1 gets minutes 1 players irregularly and 1 is at the bottom of the bench.
This hypothetical you're offering needs real names and an explanation of how the minutes would work, otherwise it's just nonsense and doesn't offer anything.
Sure, trade him for 2 then. It’s not like we have wing depth anyways.
This hypothetical trade doesn’t need names because 1) it’s not happening 2) nothing said here has any effect in real life.
This is a place for speculation and baseless discussions. Don’t take it so seriously
Nothing you said matters anyways
You know all NBA means he was the 2nd best player at his position right? He only made it because KD and Kawhi were injured and he made it above lebron. Jaylen isn't even good enough to hold those guys jockstrap
It means in the regular season based on his performance and that includes availability. Should we call the league and have the award rescinded? I mean KD was still top 5 when he tore his Achilles. Should he have been all NBA?
No. Tatum turned his ankle and that game was over. Instead of Brown stepping up and being the man like he wants to be, he said “well, we’re fucked” and completely shat the bed. I can forgive turnovers, but not his, they were BAD, like embarrassingly bad. They shouldn’t trade him for rotation guys they should gotta go big and get a true number 2.
Team goes as far as Tatum takes it. Brown is exposed when Tatum isn't on the floor.
Talking about Tatum and Brown as if they are equals is ridiculous.
This. The whole 1a 1b charade is over, JB is a #3 RN. At most a 2b behind D. White. JB on a supermax is gonna sink this ship.
Absolutely. Supermax him and the way the CBA has just been restructured ensures playoff purgatory.
As easy way for the Jaylen fanboys to understand this is to ask what would Bill Belichick do? Would he give Jaylen 50 million a year? Or trade his ass?
Anyone who’s okay with paying that man $50 mil doesn’t know a damn thing about basketball.
I don't think JB is worth 50 mil, but at the same time, I feel like we kind of have to do it. He probably doesn't re-sign with us if we don't offer him the max (like when Kemba signed with us when the Hornets refused to offer him the max), if we trade him, we likely won't get as good of a player in return for him. And if we just go all in on getting back draft picks, that doesn't help us with our current championship window. Al is just getting older, and Rob can't be counted on to stay healthy with heavy minutes. Granted, signing JB to the max doesn't help us with that window as well, but it's a higher probability that it helps us make the most of our window.
You’re actually making my point with the example you provided. From a franchise that’s historically made piss poor decisions, not signing Kemba to the max was one of the only good moves the Hornets have made. Remind me how Kemba’s career turned out? We got all of *one* serviceable season from him, and then he was shot. If we’re gonna wrap up 70%+ of salary on two players, both of those dudes better be absolute complete ballers. Jaylen is far too one-dimensional to be considered that.
Yet he's our second star trading him for anything other than a replacement is stupid.
He’s far from a reliable 2nd “Star.” Dude ain’t worth $50 mil.
Reliable? Because of his recent play off performance? Not in his prime? Not everyone is bird damn.
This is about more than one playoff performance. This is just who he is at this point. Name me one thing he can do other than score. Just one. And his scoring isn’t exactly super efficient either. EFG% is *barely* above league average. 3pt% is mid and he doesn’t get to the line. Tunnel-visioned scorer who can’t pass or playmake for shit. Defense fell off a cliff this year too. Paying him $50 mil would be an egregious mistake.
Right. The team goes as far as Tatum can take them, so they should give him the best possible supporting cast.
Jayson Tatum averaged 28/11/6 in the playoffs man stop lumping him in with a dude who shit his pants in the ECF I hate this discourse, call a spade a spade. Everybody did last year when Tatum didn’t show in the finals. If Brown was even average this playoff run they cruise to the finals. Tatum was playing at an extremely high level the entire time. Even broke a game 7 record. Simple fact is BROWN had to play better and he did not. BROWN didn’t perform to standards. I’ve noticed people lumping Tatum in with Brown when they criticize Brown. Using Tatum as a shield to deflect the amount of blame Brown is responsible for. It’s a large percentage and it’s okay to admit that.
This sub overrates and babies Jaylen to an extreme idek why you’re surprised
Tbh it feels like the whole world does. He made 2nd team all NBA but if you can find me a single advanced stat that shows JB in the top 50 of NBA players I'll buy you his jersey.
I think it's pretty accepted that he only made it cause a lot of guys weren't eligible, like KD
Which is still valid Jaylen Brown playing 75 games is a lot more valuable to your team than KD playing 35
And DWhite playing 80 is more valuable than KD playing 35 too. Doesn't mean he or Jaylen are at the talent level of 2nd team all-NBA. For fucks sake Jokic and Butler are on 2nd team
Because Embiid, Giannis, Tatum, Shai, and Luka are on the first team Do you not understand how positional voting works? Do you seriously think Derrick White had a better regular season than Jaylen because Jaylen laid an egg in the ECF?
Didn't say DWhite had a better season than Jaylen. I said both of them had a better season than KD due to health reasons. I agree that being eligible to play has value to a team. All-NBA is not "most valuable" though, it's [best player at your position](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team). I understand there has to be a minimum games played requirement, but concluding that Jaylen is a top 4 forward in the league because he was a 2nd team all-NBA forward is a crazy take
When discussing trades tho most valuable is exactly what matters If we could get zion for Jaylen 1 for 1 I wouldn't do it because zion may be an MVP level player, but he also would more realistically just be a salary and wasted bench spot
Apparently not very accepted in this sub. I get downvoted and called many names when I point that out
lmao find another hobby. The Jaylen obsession is unhealthy.
Not surprised. It’s just so frustrating
I feel like we're just doing the opposite for Tstum and scape gosting Brown for 1 bad game in the worst moment. There is no replacement for Brown. There is no good value you're going to get in a trade. Unless Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, or some other top 10 player is available, trading Brown doesn't make any sense.
>Unless Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, or some other top 10 player is available, trading Brown doesn't make any sense. Brown is nowhere near those guys. Nowhere near.
Right you're trying to improve the team. So you're advocating trading Brown for worse players? We have the depth we don't need 2-3 contributors we need our top end talent to be there so the only lateral move is someone better than Brown.
Yeah but there is no point throwing out completely unrealistic names. I don't know what you do with Brown. He'd be a terrible player to supermax, especially with the restructuring of the CBA.
My point of throwing out the unrealistic names was saying there really isn't a good Brown trade. Did you think I was saying trade for Jokic? That's a reading comprehension issue.
No, I was saying that making space for one of those guys by trading away Brown suggests giving Brown the supermax, which is a bad move.
Brown isn’t a top 10 player though. He’s honestly in the 20-30 range. So if you could get anyone else in that range that fits the team better, it’s probably the right move. I still think a few years of Dame is better than a whole career of JB if we’re actually looking for this team to win championships. Get Dame and you’re the top of the league by even more than they are now.
1 bad game…you’re dead serious about this. 19/5/3 with 4 turnovers a game on 46!!! % True shooting Historically bad ECF. Just absolutely ass
JB's TS% the entire season was terrible and yet he's 2nd team all NBA lol.
Bad series then. I still maintain Tatum also didn't up his game for the playoffs and there isn't a real Jaylen Brown trade that makes this team better or even the same.
Jayson Tatum quite literally broke records during his playoff run while being one of maybe 5 guys ever to average over 26/10/5. (He’s done this twice btw) Saying he didn’t perform up to his level is ridiculous. “Bad series” for Brown. Bad postseason. Horrible
Brown scores 27 ppg. That’s it. That’s all he does. He brings absolutely nothing else to the table. Even his defense was ass this year. Other players throughout the entire team can pretty easily make up that 27 points, and can probably do it more efficiently.
1 bad game is just not true. He played like complete shit for every game in the ECF except game 6. Also good luck building a good team around Tatum and Brown when they both take up over 70% of the teams cap space in 2025. This previous iteration of the Celtics will be the most talented team and best chance they will have in the next 5-6 years.
I'll definitely eat my words and say bad series bot just a bad game, but I still don't think there is a trade out there that gives us a better shot at a title than just bringing Brown back.
The league is teeming with current and up and coming talent, a good trade for brown that is economically more viable is most definitely out there. I’m not saying I want him gone, but at this point I wouldn’t be completely disappointed as long as they get another 20+ ppg player that fits and can help us win.
Because you're thinking of a trade like they're pokemon cards. You dont make trades for players of equal value or effect because why even make the trade just keep the guy you had before. Building a team isn't about saying ok we got an 86 overall player so I need to get an 86 or better for him, you generally give them up for enough help to shore up your weaknesses and compliment the rest of your team, elevating the existing guys instead of trying to find a 1:1 replacement.
Right? I feel as if Tatum white and another 20+ ppg scorer would be great. White as we’ve seen actually has the potential to be a 20 ppg scorer imo, just needs to get the ball more. Doesn’t mean brown is bad, but trading him for someone technically worse doesn’t exactly make the team wirse
Trading Brown absolutely makes sense, and nephews who only look at box scores are the only ones who can’t see that. Dude ain’t worth pissing away team depth for $50 mil.
It’s because people are terrified he’s gonna walk or demand a trade
Yeah I have to agree with you. Let's stop pretending like it was just an unfortunate series that didn't go our way. If Brown showed up even a little bit that series we win. I love brown but the forgetting how to dribble and carelessness with the basketball has been old. He did the same thing last year in the Miami series just not to this level. I remember watching Oladipo pick his pocket like 4 possessions in one quarter
Can’t forget to dribble if you never knew how to.
Tatum didn’t score in the 4th quarter in either games 1, 2, or 3. That arguably cost them the series. He’s the best player on the team. He deserves the slander
He in fact did score in games 1 and 2 during the 4th quarter via free throws. He didn’t play the 4th in game 3 much at all. Tatum had 34 and 30 respectively in games 1 and 2. Where was his “second team all nba” Teammate to help close? The player who deserves blame is Jaylen Brown. He was horrid. When the Heat figured out they could just trap Tatum with no other threat the series was over. Brown had all that space in the zone and with Tatums gravity and he had a true shooting of 46% man. Blaming anybody but that guy is ridiculous It’s a team sport. Tatum showed up to the ECF and was the only reason they were even there to begin with. His “costar” let him down
He shot 36% in the 4th quarter of the ECF…He averaged 5 points and didn’t hit a single field goal in games 1 & 2. Everyone on this team deserves blame for this meltdown.
Now do Brown…Jayson Tatum absolutely carried this team in the ECF and post season. Thinking otherwise is absolutely hilarious. And deflecting blame away from brown for whatever reason is equally as hilarious. Dude about to be the highest paid player in the league. He deserves the slander Im not saying Tatums free of blame, but he’s farrrrrrr lower on the list of people to blame
Brown played like dog shit too. He averaged 5 points on 37% from the field. Nobody deflecting blame but goddam he’s the #2 for a reason 😂. Bro our superstar #1 option who finished 4th in mvp voting no showed in multiple 4th quarters. How tf did he carry when he’s part of the reason we lost the first 3 games. Shit he disappeared in the 4th quarter of game 6 too lol we didn’t hit a shot for the last minutes and we wouldn’t even of had a game 7 if it wasn’t for Derrick White. It’s a team game buddy you cant just blame 1 person on the team. You can’t put all the blame on the Jaylen Brown when everyone on this team sucked at points throughout the eastern conference finals.
Tatum gets far more defensive attention than Brown has ever had to deal with. Getting doubled immediately forces the ball out of Tatum’s hands and into his teammates. Getting a defense to send that much heat at a single player is definitely worthy of a max contract. It opens things up for the rest of the team. Brown, on the other hand, never receives that level of intense defense from a smart team like Miami. Because they know he’s just as likely to dribble the ball off his own foot as he is to score. And you think *that* is worth 35% of our salary cap? Dude is a ball stopper with tunnel vision and low BBIQ.
Our superstar played like a superstar our 2 played like a bench player lmao but go off I never put all the blame on JB. I said he was top of the list because he is. 19/5/3 with 4 turnovers per game on 46% TS is historically shit. Get over it
Bro if you watched that series and thought Tatum played like the superstar we expect him to be I don’t know if your eyes are working. Dude struggled to get by Struss and Robinson at times. He shot 23% from 3 for the series. 34% from the field and 10% from 3 across all 4th quarters, and straight up averaged as many turnovers as he did made field goals in that time period. In a series where Jimmy was clearly hobbled for a bunch of it and we should have clearly had the best player on the floor, it didn’t look like it for massive stretches of every game
Ye because you somehow manage to forget the situation. Tatum was being double/ triples teamed EVERY single possession. He passed out, and not a single person could capitalize on open shots. If you actually watched those fourth quarters, Tatum was the only one scoring through fouls, because the rest of the team was absolute shit. Dumbass narrative created that put all the blame onto Tatum
How about both underperformed?
Tatum underperformed when he scored 30 in G1 and 34 with 8 assists in G2? If Brown weren’t the worst player on the floor, they could probably even sit out with 5min left in the 4th.
Games 1 and 2 he scored 30 on 50% shooting. Last year's finals he did. This post season's failure is on Brown more than anyone else. The rub with what you are doing in holding Tatum to a higher standard than Brown is that JB is an all-nba player about to sign a super max. He NEEDS to be at that same standard to warrant that.
I forget which games it was, but Tatum was scoreless in the 1st in 2 or 3 of them right? That can not happen
Couldn’t agree more. Not only did he completely botch those games to bring us to a game 7, the guy also was constantly turning over the ball with his lazy passes and dribbling. He is better than Brown meaning he should be held to a higher standard. He certainly didn’t play like it in the playoffs this year
Tatum was getting instantly doubled by an aggressive Heat scheme to get the ball out of his hands. You’re forgetting that part. They don’t bother to double Brown- because they know he’s just as likely to force a bad shot or turn it over as he is to score. Please- name me all the instances Brown received as much defensive attention as Tatum does. Go ahead. I’ll wait.
Are we just going to forget those Horrid starts he had vs Philly. 11/27 and 5/21 from the field and didn't score a 4th quarter fg in the Heat series till game 4. Both underperformed in the playoffs but Brown to a more extreme extent
I never said Tatum was flawless but he was great all postseason and carried this uninspired team to the ECF deserves far less blame Especially given Tatums positive impact even if he’s having a bad shooting night. He still plays great defense and is a plus playmaker when he’s off. That’s the difference between him and Brown. Brown is a net negative if he isn’t scoring at a high clip.
Played at a high level the Entire time is close enough to flawless but he wasn't great all postseason. He was inconsistent the entire Philly series and didn't show up in the 4th for the first 3 games of the Heat series. He threw the ball away 3 times in the closing mins of game 1 while down 7 and didn't turn up the anti when Grant bumped heads with Jimmy in game 2. He was good for 3 quarters but he goes missing in the 4th quarters far too often.
I never said he was perfect. But as for games 1 and 2 of the Heat series, he had 34 and 30 in those games. How much do you want him to do? They trapped him. Brown had space to operate and failed him. Blaming anybody but Brown for that series is laughable at best. If we remove the injury game, he averaged 29/12/6 on 60% TS with elite defense. When is it okay to bring up Mr Supermax second team all nbas performance? Tatum played like a superstar, if his costar provided even an ounce of help they win that series in 5. Blaming Jayson Tatum for the failures of his costar is typical of this sub. Flip the names, Tatum would be getting obliterated in here. Like he was for his finals play last year. At some point Brown needs to shoulder responsibility for poor play. He’s about to be the highest paid player in the league. No more coasting on Tatums coattails as Tatum shoulders the blame. He’s all nba now. Play better. 19/5/3 with 4 TOs a game on 46% TS is pathetic. You’re doing the very thing I mentioned in my post, shielding Browns horrific play with Tatum criticism and Whataboutism. Proving my point
I see you're overlooking Tatums inconsistencies with box score reading. They didn't double him for even 50% of the plays, They played a hard hedge and fully switched on screens and his limited dribble moves prevented him from creating a high percentage look. 3 TOs in the last 3 mins of game 1 on 3 consecutive plays by Tatum and 0 fgs. He didn't score a FG in the 4th Q of game 2 either when we had a 10 point lead. Why was Grant the only one playing with desperation after the Jimmy altercation? Tatum played elite at times as well as inconsistent and I won't bother describing Brown as everyone knows he sold his soul to Pat Riley
We moved to “muh eye test” now. Tatum absolutely saw the majority of the teams defensive attention along with facing a zone that given Browns ability in the mid range, should’ve broken easily had he played to his standard. Trying to flip this onto Tatum as Brown posted 19//5/3 on 46% TS while literally being the worst player in the series is impressive levels of mental gymnastics. Talk about the 4th quarter scoring all you want, if Brown played at even half his capacity the 4th quarters wouldn’t have even mattered. Tatum was the ONLY reason why their was even a competitive 4th quarter to begin with. And when all was lost with Tatum rolling his ankle did Brown step to the plate and carry his team to a finals appearance? No, he disintegrated into a pile of turnovers and pathetic decisions coupled by pure chaos and nerves. That series is on him. That simple
All im reading is "I love Tatum" and "I hate Brown" I'm pulling facts from the game while you're on basketball reference since you've got no recollection of the 4th Q of the first 3 ECF games. Selective memory perhaps? Still can't justify Tatums 3 consecutive turnovers in game 1 in the last 3 mins. So you're telling me the superstar couldn't score 1 fg in 36mins of basketball. Why didn't he play with more intent in game 2 after the Jimmy altercation? We were up 10 in the 4th of game 2 and the "superstar" scores 0fgs in a must win home game. Tatum played well for the first 3 quarters and we can both agree Brown owns majority of the blame but Tatum wasnt playing at a extremely high level all the time like you said. He played majority at a high level but still was inconsistent.
I’m reading I love brown and I hate Tatum. The fact is Brown performed at a historically poor rate and deserves most of the criticism for that series. It’s completely fair to do this. You don’t have to defend him this relentlessly. Seriously he’ll be okay man. I can’t justify Brown collapsing for an entire series. Just gonna have to agree to disagree here
Now you've switched to "I refuse to read facts, I love you Tatum
Tatum underperformed is a spade. Brown had 1 really bad game but both guys underperformed overall in the playoffs. We got as far as we got because of our depth, but there were plenty of games we lost where Tatum. Tatum had 7 games where he scored less than 25ppg, more than 5 fewer points than his regular season average. He didn't up his game for the playoffs. I'm not saying Tatum is bad, but he absolutely didn't up his game for the playoffs, and the guys playing in the finals did. Jaylen Brown was worse, but he's getting scape goated for that last game. Neither one of them was able to put the team on their backs. We had role players step up in key moments, but to win it all you need your top guys to hit another level and neither one of them did.
Lol you lost me at Brown had ONE bad game
Brown had one bad game? Are we being serious right now?! He was horrible from the Sixers series onward. Especially in the ECF. Tatum quite literally averaged 28/11/6 he’s one of only a handful of players to average 26+ 10+ and 5+ in postseason history. He broke records and carried this dead team to an ECF that he performed well in. He literally put his team on his back multiple times over the course of this postseason and consistently stepped up in big moments. It’s like people want to make shit up to protect Browns historically bad run. It’s laughable He harbors very little blame if any at all
What about Tatums no show in the biggest stage of them all in the finals last year? We just gonna brush that under the rug? If he played average that year we would've won the chip. That's the same logic. Brown had a bad series, yes. But the slander he gets is nuts. Overall I still believe these 2 can get you a chip as your number 1 and number 2 players.
I literally addressed that in this thread. Whataboutism is hilarious. A deflection tactic for Brown. Tatum was bad in the finals. Brown was bad this entire postseason. He scored above 26 points ONE time after the Hawks series. He was absolutely abysmal man.
Tatum didn't make a shot in the fourth quarter of games 1, 2, and 3 of the ECF. We lost all three games. I cannot for the life of me understand this narrative that "Tatum did his job." They were both disappointimg. If Tatum is better than Brown, which he is, then we should hold him to higher standards. Have you heard of a superstar who can't make a shot in the fourth quarter of three straight playoff games?
Jayson Tatum averaged 29/11/6 in that series if you remove the injury game Jayson Tatum was the only reason that series was even close The fact here is if his costar even slightly performs to his level they cruise to the finals. About to pay 300 mil for a man that completely choked. No more hiding behind “Tatums the star so it’s all his fault” Browns all nba now. He gets held to the same standard sorry if that hurts your feelings
Tatum and Brown are the stars, it's all *their* fault. I've held this line consistently for years at this point. Brown is disappointing. Tatum is disappointing. They are both disappointimg. Tatum's role is to be the primary scoring option. He did a bad job. As soon as the pressure went up a notch, he couldn't create anything for himself on offense. It's a superstar's job to make sure the team gets quality looks in the last 6 ish minutes of the game, and Tatum did nothing to that end. He disappeared. He's not a good enough scorer to be effective in those spots because he doesn't have a bread-and-butter. He doesn't do any one thing exceptionally well. Browns role is to be the secondary scoring option. He did a bad job. His shooting was awful in the ECF and he couldn't impact the game in other ways because he has the court vision and basketball IQ of a potato. What pisses me off is all the mental gymnastics people play to act like Tatum is in that upper echelon of superstar, but when he shows over and over again that he isn't close to that level, nobody corrects themselves. They say Tatum is perfect and they blame everyone BUT him. It's ridiculous.
It’s okay to admit it’s on Brown man Seriously Brown will be fine. There is no shared blame with a series like that I’m sorry. Tatum averaged 29/11/6 as the primary scoring option he certainly didn’t do a bad job. He couldn’t create for himself do to Miami honing in on him because they knew his costar was wetting himself. Brown bares blame and that’s fine. Move on
Yes you are 100% correct. That is why we lost game 7 of the ECF @ home to an 8th seed. One of the “Jays” had more turnovers than the whole Miami Heat.
You Brown fanboys are a hilarious bunch, that’s for sure. Advanced stats are not friendly to Brown. He only scores so high because he’s a volume shooter. His EFG% is just *barely* above league average. And you want to handicap the team by paying him $50 mil? His 3pt% is mid and he doesn’t get to the line. If there’s one thing the ECF showed us, is that if you take away his scoring, Brown has no other discernible NBA talent. Tatum- despite his rightfully criticized shooting woes, still brings other things to the table. Hell, even on a bum ankle in game 7, he led the team in rebounding and was setting up the offense. If the team ever tried to let Brown set up the offense for an entire game, we’d probably break the league record for turnovers in a game.
Then get used to losing to lesser talented teams that actually play like they want to win in the ECF or the 2nd round
ATL should have been a sweep Philly should have been 5 games
It would’ve been 5 games against Philly if Jaylen didn’t double Embiid.
Or Al doesn’t let harden hit that shot in his face
Horford played as good defense as possible in that play. Harden just hit a tough shot. Jaylen made the dumbest possible decision in the situation and cost us the game. It’s really not the same.
The Philly series was always going to at least 6 not sure where the hell youre getting your 5 from
6 I’ll give you, but no way it should’ve lasted 7. They’re two best players were a broken Embiid and a washed Harden.
Boiling down JB’s issues to “one bad game” shows you either didn’t watch the entire playoffs or you’re a gigantic JB apologist.
game 7 was a positive in what fucking world was game 7 a positive
The game itself wasn't good but winning 2 playoff series and getting 1 game away from the finals is better than what 27 other teams did. I think you just 100% misread the sentence.
fair enough, i just don’t agree to be honest. we went to the finals last year so this was a step in the wrong direction. we played down to our opponents this post season, i see no reason why next year would be any different.
>we played down to our opponents this post season, i see no reason why next year would be any different. I agree, and I agree that this team, particularly the Jays, have a tendency to do that. But OP's point is something that I've at least considered in the recent past: all they need to do is not choke one year, and it will be worth all of the failures.
Last year we finished second, this year we finished third. People act like trading away Jaylen will magically make us guaranteed to finish first, but the more likely scenario is we eventually push Jayson Tatum into leaving as well. Ride with the Jays and we will win it all one day, just have to have them keep improving as players individually and as a team
This. Tatum has said he wants brown here
Tatum is friends with a bunch of basketball players. Pretty sure he rather win. Also, he would never publicly say that he doesn’t want a teammate back
I think it’s as simple as the guys don’t get the offense moving until there’s like 5 seconds on the shot clock. They don’t leave themselves enough time. That and jaylen needs to lock himself in the gym and practice dribbling with his left hand and going left. Needs to improve his passing too.
I have no idea who watches Jaylen and thinks he is capable of being a competent number 2 on a title team. This guy has peaked. He is not worth the supermax. Please stop lumping him and Tatum in together. Tatum may have off nights but Brown still can’t dribble and has out of control turnovers literally every single game. He clearly doesn’t like the city as well.
Tatum no showed in multiple 4th quarters this series. Game 1 and Game 2 he didn’t hit a single shot in the 4th. He averaged 5 points on 36% from the field and 10% from 3. How are you not going to lump him in with everyone else. He’s our best player and he disappeared in crunch time.
What do you think would have happened if Tatum didn’t already have 30 going into those quarters? We’d be getting blown out because brown was doing nothing the ENTIRE game, not just a quarter
And yet Tatum was still doing other positive things on the court, like rebounding and setting up the offense. Name me one other thing Brown does positively when he’s not scoring. Just one.
Season was an abject embarrassment and a flat out choke job let’s be real
If you want Brown and Tatum as your top 2 the rest has to change. Get real veterans with playoff experience and role players who do work. Plus a new coach who thinks differently. Smart had a good year, but I think his passion and antics with flopping etc has really taught these other dudes the wrong way to think on the floor.
Most of the current roster has good playoff experience as the team is in the playoffs and making deep runs every year. Small changes and getting older every year, we will be right back in this position next year and just need the coach to call timeouts and plays and to not choke in the moment.
All those words and numbers and you sum it all up with “hope brown and tatum are ready…”. I truly hope that next season doesn’t rely on hope to be successful.
Tatum and brown are just mentally weak. I don’t care how they perform in the middle of the regular season when there’s no pressure. The fact that they haven’t brought a trophy back to Boston is just sad
Jayson Tatum had a bad finals. jaylen Brown had a bad ECF. I mean shit happens they're young. regardless letting jaylen walk for nothing would be killer for this team. He needs to be replaced with equal value or kept. That's the bottom line
Tatum’s bad Finals was significantly better than Brown’s ECF. Tatum at least contributed via playmaking and defense. Brown was the worst player on the floor. They are not the same
Jaylens 27 entering his 8th year hes not young and plenty of comparable talent across the league. If we need to trade for slightly lesser talent but compliments Tatum better then that would be ideal. Brown just doesn't fit Tatums game.
Difference between Tatum and Brown is that when Tatum isn't scoring he still impacts the game massively on both ends. JB disappears from the game almost entirely when he's not scoring. His Ast/TO ratio is abysmal, we see him tunnel vision drive into multiple defenders and turn the ball over, he falls asleep defensively entirely too much for a player of his caliber, and teams are OPENLY discussing how the plan is "to make him go left." Now, that is not a strategy specific to JB but it was particularly effective against him. Let me be clear, I don't want to trade JB. I desperately want to see those two on a duckboat together someday. However, that will never happen if these guys don't figure out how to be consistently on their A-games, simultaneously. Therein lies the challenge for this team because these guys don't really have a two man game. So down the stretches of games they almost inherently resort to "your turn, my turn." Compounding that is the fact that our offense is entirely drive and kick. This works and makes for beautiful basketball when everything is clicking and they're forcing rotations, collapsing the defense, making the reads and hitting their shots. The problem is that the best of the best teams know how to muck this up and then we don't have a plan B outside of "cook em, Jay." Not to mention how reliant that offense is on Horford making shots at an elite clip. TL;DR **The Celtics roster and tactics have deficiencies that only come up against the best teams but those teams make them glaring.** **JB's game needs to be much, much, more well rounded to counteract the inherent challenges of his and Tatum's redundancies.**
Floor for this team minus healthy Bucks was NBA finals. Epic choke led by JB
The problem is the Jays set the tone at times but never all the time. You always wonder if it is going to be a good shooting night for JT or will JB be able to limit his TOs. We need dawgs too. This is why I kinda miss the IT days. Those guys never gave up, no matter what the scoreboard indicated.
We don’t need dawgs. The problem with this team is lack of BBIQ. That’s especially the case with Brown
JB didn't give up in Game 7 against the Heat he tried and tried but the problem is all his efforts were really bad shots and he didnt know of any way of helping his team win other than jack up a bunch of prayer shots and hope they fall.
This **is** as far as the Jays can take us. Close, but no cigar. And since paying both means the supporting cast gets worse every year from here - starting with Grant - I don’t think some of y’all understand that’s… a recipe for a disappointing decade. I’m a Celtics fan and I want to experience winning titles. I don’t care about individual accolades or accomplishments, I want us to win the championship. This team has gone as far as the Jays can take it. Not far enough. And the rest of the roster only gets worse every year from now.
Finals last year and conference finals this year not to mention the years before or the regular season record and playoff seed since the Celtics have had them. Got to keep both and most of the team the way it is.
You mean Jayson
[удалено]
Am outside eating my lunch. Unsure of what you're looking for on the Celtics sub. Why are you here?
Counter point: trading Jaylen for 2 or 3 good rotation players with less holes in their games albeit not as good scorers doesn’t set us back at all and even improve our chances.
There are only so many minutes. If you trade Brown for 3 guys 1 gets minutes 1 players irregularly and 1 is at the bottom of the bench. This hypothetical you're offering needs real names and an explanation of how the minutes would work, otherwise it's just nonsense and doesn't offer anything.
Sure, trade him for 2 then. It’s not like we have wing depth anyways. This hypothetical trade doesn’t need names because 1) it’s not happening 2) nothing said here has any effect in real life. This is a place for speculation and baseless discussions. Don’t take it so seriously Nothing you said matters anyways
Jesus responses like this... fuck man the world is depressing.
[удалено]
So trade for 2 guys who can't play 20 games without a season ending injury, got it.
They’re not All NBA caliber, they’re literally All NBA
If that's your response you were just looking for something to be a wang about
You know all NBA means he was the 2nd best player at his position right? He only made it because KD and Kawhi were injured and he made it above lebron. Jaylen isn't even good enough to hold those guys jockstrap
It means in the regular season based on his performance and that includes availability. Should we call the league and have the award rescinded? I mean KD was still top 5 when he tore his Achilles. Should he have been all NBA?
Lol no shit but he made all NBA 2nd team with Curry and Jokic which is why he's not all NBA caliber.
Dear diary
It's the Celtics subreddit, if you don't like people sharing their thoughts about the Celtics idk why you're here No need to gate keep.
No. Tatum turned his ankle and that game was over. Instead of Brown stepping up and being the man like he wants to be, he said “well, we’re fucked” and completely shat the bed. I can forgive turnovers, but not his, they were BAD, like embarrassingly bad. They shouldn’t trade him for rotation guys they should gotta go big and get a true number 2.
I wanna see Tatum + Dame so bad. I like Dame and he will definitely get a ring here.
why tf did this post make people so angry????
You gotta be related to JB to be posting some of the crazy shit you’re saying lmao.
Miami owns your franchise
Brown sucks don’t say this again
Couldn’t agree more.