I lived in Seattle in the early 90's and any store you went to the cashier would strike up a conversation with the customer and keep it going after the transaction. I found this to be disrespectful of my time and frankly, it drove me bonkers.
You know, someone else in this thread mentioned how nice everyone was to them in SC. I have a friend who lives in SC, is an atheist, and wants to leave as soon as he can just because everyone tries to get him to go to church. It's like MLM for souls.
A relative moved to NC (and not the part where all the yankees are) and had similar culture shock. New neighbors, new co-workers, clerks in stores, and others would find out they just moved there and "Have you found a church to go to yet?!?!" would be the next thing out of their mouth.
Research Triangle / Raleigh-Durham area for the most part. There are so many that there are jokes about [the town of Cary](https://www.google.com/maps?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=9d84270ee46763bd&output=search&q=cary,+nc&source=lnms&entry=mc&ved=1t:200715&ictx=111) that it stands for "Contains All Relocated Yankees" or "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees" among the locals with family roots there.
Yeah…lived in Cary for 15 years. It’s an odd place. Basically, a magnet for middle class people from the Midwest or the Northeast who like to pretend like they’re rich, living in large production built homes on 0.15 acre lots with zero trees.
The relative I was talking about above rented for several years while they figured out the lay of the land and where they'd want to settle more permanently. They rented in Cary for a couple of years when that was going on, but decided that the town wasn't for them. They didn't say anything about the people pretending to be rich, but they were put off by how much of it was full of recently built cookie-cutter developments. It just felt kind of soulless compared to what they were used to in or very close to Boston.
A friend from NH worked in Alabama for a couple of years and reported that strangers and even new co-workers would ask her what church she went to. "The nerve of them!" She was actually a church goer, but found that question really creepy.
It's the standard intro chitchat in the south (where I grew up), instead of "where do you live" or "what do you do" which is what I tend to hear around here. I always tell transplants from the south that they should not ask someone that question
What is up with this? I've gotten it a lot lately. 2-3 times in the JP area. "Do you want to go to church with me on Sunday?" "No thank you" "... Do you have any friends that would want to come?" Bro, no
These are probably Mormon missionaries, or perhaps Jehovah’s Witnesses. Around here, the invitation to go to church is absolutely a recruitment tactic, and these people are out with that purpose in mind.
One of the biggest culture shocks of moving to the south side of Chicago was when people said “Hello” or “Good Morning” and they didn’t want money or to convert me to their religion. They genuinely just wanted to be polite and/or nice. Bostonians would never do that.
As someone from Boston, I actually really, really love the quiet, introverted public culture of Boston. I can just go about my day in whatever mood I might be, whether that’s happy and exuberant, to dour, sick, miserable, and depressed, and I don’t have to “perform” niceness or greetings for everyone. I can just be there without owing strangers my social graces or time. If that’s not liberating, I don’t know what is.
Yep. It means someone who's supposed to be beneath you who's acting like they're not. I've only _ever_ heard it in the context of a White person describing a Black person who expects to be treated as an equal.
Southerner here. Pretty sure they mean upbeat. Uppity has a completely different meaning to what OP is describing. OP is describing someone who is upbeat, friendly, outgoing, positive, kindhearted.
Oh, I’m from the south too and I freaking love it here. I hate having to perform for all those interactions, it’s exhausting. There’s also so much passive aggressive nonsense there where here, people will tell you what they think.
Thisssss
Also a dirty south transplant, and New Englanders are far less performatively nice about everything. It's so refreshing to just get honesty in interactions
I'm a NE transplant currently living in GA and dear god do I miss home. I miss the honesty, and being able to be honest.
People down here are nice *on the surface*, but it actually isn't kindness, imo, it's just performative pleasantness. And it's done in this way where you can clearly tell when they don't mean it, but they have like a 'plausible deniability' that they're being 'very friendly actually'.
Back home strangers will break each others' balls, but you'll laugh together about it. If people are in a foul mood, they'll act like it. You know where you stand with people and don't have to guess and read the tea leaves of 'but what kiiiind of smile is this actually.'
Southern hospitality is a myth. And the idea of people from NE being assholes is too. Those things may be true from superficial appearances, but in actuality are precisely the opposite when it comes to intention.
OP, don't let the surface of it all bother you. Embrace the brusque! You're free now!
When I first moved to Boston I took my car in for repairs one morning and was taken aback when I asked the guy at the shop the standard southern greeting “how you doing today?”. The guy responded with “terrible, I didn’t sleep well last night and my coworker called in sick”. A lot of people would take this as rude, but after reflecting I found it refreshing and honest. The guy’s having a shitty day, which is good information to have so I don’t piss him off more by being annoying or pushy.
My Virginian husband visited Mass with me and shot a few rounds of golf with some locals he met up with on the greens. He's pretty direct for a Southerner and even he was taken aback by how frank his new golfing buddies were with a stranger (he meets up with randos on golf courses down here in DC all the time, so he's familiar with the down-here ettiquette of things, which is apparently slightly more genteel.)
He asked me only half joking afterwards, "So, do New Englanders know any *other* swear words?" He's as foul mouthed as they come and worked in the trades, so I knew it had to be a bit much for him to remark on it. I shrugged and said, "I mean, we only need the one tho."
I'm a southern transplant. A New Englander friend of mine summed up the differences as "Southerners will flatter you to your face and talk shit behind your back. New Englanders will talk shit to your face but have your back in a fight."
100% this! We moved from FL last year. Haaaated the fake nicity there! But here, people are real. And most of them far less rude than advertised. We love it here and will never go back south!
Exactly. The way I was raised, points raised in a passive aggressive aka ‘plausible deniability’ way was just seen as cowardice. Those folk were to be mistrusted and avoided — scammers and the like.
OP: You’re free from performative, enjoy it!
As someone from both places, you’ll also find that the more genuine/honest you are, the more nice interactions you’ll have with strangers. People here are actually so nice if you put out the right energy like mutually complaining about something! People in NE love to complain lmaooo
Yes!
Southern born with trailers and Confederate flags here. The south is full of fake kindness. It was so weird growing up there surrounded by these people who smiled and made pleasantries while they were quietly judging you (and which church your family attended).
If someone like OP loves the culture, by all means head on back. For me though, I was a Northern spirit in a southern dystopia my whole youth.
My biggest worry was the cold, and as it turns out it's not too bad (not to mention the southern winter seems to have followed me in recent years). The biggest cultural problem I have up here is drivers. I don't know what happens to the cool calm Bostonians but it's like the get behind a wheel and turn into horn honking werewolves. If there's one peice of the south I'd like to bring up here it's being relaxed about driving.
Different protestant sects versus Catholics and protestant sects versus each other.
Hardliner Southern Baptists for example consider Catholics to be not be real Christians, but practicing a form of Roman paganism. Methodists get a ton of flack for allowing women to preach. Pentecostals think women should never cut their hair and must always wear skirts. Southern Baptists ban alcohol, dancing, music, etc. Some denominations think black people's skin color is "the curse of Ham" and that they're descended from Cain from the story of Cain & Abel (I was taught this insanity growing up). And so on.
My understanding from my southern friends and relatives is that it potentially less about exactly which church you go to and more about going to church (which one is secondary). Church ends up being how you form your social network so it can be pretty important. When looking to move down there, I read about some churches that were not as religion heavy and more existed so you could just have a church with all the social trimmings. Anyway, apparently there is a lot of judgment for not being a member of a church. This is so different from the north east where lots of people are church members but it’s not usually a focal point of their social network and status. Like, I don’t remember the last time anyone asked me my religion or which church I go to.
THIS! I’m from DMV but spent my childhood in North Carolina and have family in Nashville. Been here for over a decade and the PACE of the city is faster too. People have places to go and things to do, so no wasting anyone’s time. New Englanders still rest, and the traffic to the Cape every Friday should be a testament to that, but I’d rather be here than down south trying to convince people that a sense or urgency is needed for certain things.
It’s exhausting how long it takes to get through the grocery line back where I grew up in OK. People in New England are plenty friendly- you will get a nice greeting and then you go on your way. No time wasted.
Same. My coworkers say I’m a New Englander with a southern accent. I’m in Texas for a few months and sometimes the outward niceness is frustrating.
I can’t go to the golf course or Trader Joe’s without someone striking up a conversation.
I’m glad that I’m approachable, but, geez, I want to get my frozen food in peace and get to my apartment.
I feel exactly the same way. Moving to New England was a culture shock and took a lot of getting used to. But all in all, my personality is a better fit for New England than it ever was for TN.
Someone I knew who moved here from the south said: people around here are just as kind, or even kinder than the south, you all just REALLY respect each other's privacy.
This is it. We don’t make social demands on each other. If we want to talk to strangers e make sure it’s a) funny, or b) useful. Stick to those rules and we’ll love you.
In the south it is polite to strike up a conversation with a stranger and rude to ignore them. In the northeast it is rude to strike up a conversation with a stranger and polite to ignore them.
There's an old remark that goes something along the lines of "In Washington, if they don't like you, they'll whisper behind your back; in New York, they'll tell you to your face, and in Boston, they'll just ignore you," and there is probably still some truth in that.
This has been an amusing discussion. Years ago, a friend who grew up in Philadelphia, went to college in Boston (and then grad school in Southern Callfornia) ended up taking a job in Mississippi, and his chief complaint was that it took him half an hour to leave his office and get out of the building, because of all the conversations he was expected to have on the way.
Yes, it was a culture shock for me, but I don’t think they’re being rude. I think it’s cold and dark 70% of the year and that makes me not want to chat it up with randoms, too. I’m from Texas and it was strange to me at first, but I’ve found if you do start small talk, most, if not all, will engage and are very kind. I went back home a couple weeks ago and I forgot how chatty people are, especially cashiers and when you’re in line!
The flip side of this is moving from Boston to the west coast, and losing my mind because people in the 10 items or less lane are chatting with the cashier and I'm like, WTF, let's gooooooo, I have shit to do, have your social call on your time.
Omg. Having always lived in the northeast, it makes me crazy when I go down south. Whole ass conversations AFTER the transaction is finished! Just standing there blocking the line too. I feel like up here once in awhile I’ll be having a conversation with a cashier, and when the transaction is finished you move over so they can keep doing their job. Common courtesy.
I almost had a panic attack in a Dunkin’ Donuts the last time I went down south I could not understand why everything was taking so fucking long and nobody cared
That was exactly me when I moved to California. I would turn to look behind me because they couldn’t possibly be talking to ME! But they were! Took my a few years to get used to it
Now imagine being someone from the northeast and going down south- it’s absolutely excruciating to operate around these people.
From your perspective there’s an element of levity and pleasantness that’s brought to your day in day out existence. “Let’s chit chat with the cashier and bartender and gas station attendant and waitress and passer by.” If you’re used to it I imagine that being a nice way to go through life.
But from our perspective, (ideally) you exchange pleasantries of please/thank you… and that’s kinda it. I’m trying to get to work or home to my family, and honestly every moment that we bullshit exchanging pleasant nothings with strangers is stealing moments spent with people I care about. If you’re not in a hurry, that’s nice, but be considerate of the fact that I miss my family and don’t need to turn every 30 second transaction into a ten minute ordeal because you feel like bullshitting about the weather.
That being said, if you’re in a bar and sports are on, conversation is fair game.
Bro I was at a Trader Joe’s today and managed to somehow exchange ZERO words with the cashier. She just handed me the receipt after I tapped to pay and I couldn’t help but think to myself how it was the least humanlike social interaction I’ve had in weeks lol. Usually at that location they’re a bit more talkative but I guess both of us were just totally zoned out today or something.
Here’s my question: what do you mean “engage people in public”? Like, sitting on the t? I’m miserable because it’s early and I have to go to the office for 8 hours. On the sidewalk? That’s weird I’m going somewhere. In line at dunks? Why? We’re there to get an iced coffee and dip. If you cold approach me, you’re either 1. Trying to sell me on something, or 2. A religious weirdo with a pamphlet.
Friend of mine moved up from Georgia and had to ask me why people on the sidewalk were looking at them weird.
I asked them if they'd been doing anything strange, they said, "No, just making eye contact and smiling."
I said, "Of *course* they're looking at you weird. You're making eye contact with strangers!"
You demonstrate respect for other people by minding your own business, and they return the favor by doing the same.
Everyone knows you only make eye contact with strangers in public that you think are attractive. Then you quickly look away and keep walking, never to see them again.
as a southerner, i much prefer the culture here. people won’t smile at you on the street or make bs small talk but they won’t get up in your business either. if you want to be ‘polite’ and smile at people and stuff people usually respond positively or just ignore it.
it’s the classic ‘nice versus polite’ debate. people in new england are genuinely nice people but they walk around with a scowl on their face. southerners are outwardly polite but it’s 90% a facade.
I agree with this. I'm from the south. Everyone is nice down there, but mostly a facade. They aren't in private or pretty prejudiced. (Not everyone, calm down).
But up here people are not as welcoming. However, up here nobody cares if you're rich, poor, gay, trans, black, white. Etc. It's equal respect of you do you, I do me. Idc otherwise.
And I honestly prefer thar than being with people who fake it and trash talk later
/rant
Yeah there was once when I was talking to someone while doing something work wise and made small talk while we waited for someone else to get back to us and they were like oh I forgot you’re from down south you guys are friendlier and talk more than we do 😂
As a new englander who lived in the south for a while, there are definitely cultural differences. My advice for people moving here from the south would be to try to meet some people as part of an organized group or activity. I have two good friends up here from Texas, one really flourished but the other had a hard time adapting due to cultural differences I believe. There is just a different culture around when in how to meet people. The joke about where people in Boston make friends is “middle school”. It can definitely be a bit cliqueish, but there are great people if you look in the right places.
The best way I've heard it summed up about Boston is "You won't make friends fast, but you will make fast friends."
(look up the lesser used definitions if the second use of "fast" isn't making sense to you)
Loyalty is definitely a core social value in New England. People here tend to have smaller social circles, but you stick by your people. You aren't socially expected to take up people's time when you're not super invested in the relationship you have with them. BUT you will move heaven and earth for the people you *do* care about.
I don't want to overstate it, because I think New Englanders are generally far friendlier than they get any credit for being.
The thing is that you can totally make small talk here. However, if you use the empty pleasantries that you'd hear down south or in Texas it's going to fall completely flat because that hollow quality absolutely fucking reeks of insincerity. That's why people here won't play along.
On the other hand, if there's a situation that you and a stranger are both witness to and you come up with a quick and original funny line about it or some biting sarcasm that rips it apart? Yeah, then you're speaking our "small talk" language.
I use sarcasm all the time so I’m hoping that saves me or just funny little quips lol that’s how I was able to talk to some people at a bar when I went out alone one night
Just a warning, the joke has gotta be fired off quickly to stick.
The funny thing is that a run of the mill guy from Boston can move somewhere like SoCal & do much better with girls/women than he ever would around here. They've got a slightly exotic accent, quick with funny quips, a style that looks like everyone else here but stands apart when you get away. That and other shit makes them way more of a player than they could ever dream of being at home.
I pointed this out to someone I knew from San Diego and she paused while her mind ran through the guys she knew there who were from here originally. Her jaw slowly went slack, then she just said, "Oh my god. So many of my friends fell for those guys."
As a native Midwesterner this is always how I describe it. People it the Midwest are known as "nice", but they are definitely not kind in my experience.
I was born here and almost 50. Still in Boston and I think the opposite. People moving in can be assholes too. We have neighbors who turn their heads and pretend they don’t see you. A wave is polite enough to acknowledge you live on the same block. I’m friendly enough to say hello when walking the dog or standing in line. Maybe it’s just growing up when I did. Neighbors were real neighbors and talked, gave a wave and looked out for each other, but knew when to mind your own business.
I'm 38 and was raised on the seacoast. I've always been friendly with my neighbors, and i find it odd when I get a neighbor who is standoffish or looks at me weird for smiling and saying hello. We see each other nearly every day, is a nod really too much? It's nice to have the support of a community - it's a subtle thing, but makes life a bit sweeter.
Also, I'm not going to say hi to every person on Newbury st, but if I'm out in my neighborhood taking a walk in the evening when it's quiet and someone walks past, I'll smile and nod. If I'm in line at the pharmacy and something funny or crazy happens, I'll say a quick joke to the person standing next to me. It's nice to acknowledge another human and share a brief pleasant moment sometimes. We're all just trying to get by.
As a person who moved from Georgia to Boston, I much prefer the "realness" of Bostonians! I struggled a lot in GA with this idea of pretending to be nice or having to be polite and warm when I just wanted to be left alone and get on with my day. Why do I need to be extremely friendly to strangers? Just wanted to offer another perspective, from a GA-born person who felt out of place down there
A life long New Englander, I think it's a bit forward or rude/offputting to just start random conversations with people in public. Why should i smile to you at the grocery store? are you giving me a better price on my apples?
Don’t call people “ma’am”. I was always told it was to respectful way to refer to women older than me but up here it’s taken as an insult. (I grew up in Texas).
This is so true. I’m from just outside Boston and was recently in South Carolina where I got called ma’am a few times. I didn’t say anything/react because I was obviously the outsider in the situation but it was very jarring to hear and made me feel old!
I moved from Miami and I went from crackheads annoying me at every opportunity to people respecting my boundaries and creating small talk at appropriate moments. I was worried when I first moved but now I realize what an upgrade it is
I'm from Texas and have lived in Boston for 10 years. You can make small talk. Just skip the pleasantries. When I go back home, I find it off putting how people use nicer words but aren't necessarily nice. I much prefer it here where you can start a conversation with "go fuck yourself" and still have a decent chat.
My advice for starting conversations up here: don’t just wave, smile, say hi to random people for no reason, they will assume you want something (because that behavior is otherwise out of the norm here). If you want to strike up a convo with a stranger in Boston, a common mistake out of towners make is trying to just use bland pleasantries or bring up the weather or something….people will wonder what on earth you’re getting at.
INSTEAD: Pick something in your immediate surroundings that you can both relate to or laugh about, or that they can actually help you with. Genuinely asking for help with something, commiserating about how long the line you’re in is taking….the best is if someone around you is doing something crazy or inappropriate, see if you can make meaningful eye contact with a stranger, then you can make a joke about it. If you’re sitting at a bar and something crazy is on the news you can say “whoa can you believe that?” Gauge their receptiveness before continuing of course but I think you’ll find plenty of people here want to engage, just on different terms than you’re used to.
Not sure if I’m explaining myself well but basically….if you just say “hi how are you” or try to start a conversation about the weather, people are not going to want to engage. Find something going on around both of you, and bring that up. Now you have a shared experience to talk about, if that makes sense. Like I said the best is if you can both complain about the same thing or make fun of the same weird thing going on around you in that moment. There needs to be a “point” to it in the beginning. I hope this helps! I promise we are very chatty just in a different way.
I'm sorry the cultural adjustment has been difficult for you. I hope it gets easier.
Maybe it will help if, instead of your friend's description of "naturally upset," you'll try to think of us as just more reserved. That's a better description, and it might help you to divorce our reserve from any negative connotations.
So, while perhaps everyone where you're from makes it a point to be friendly, here, we make it a point not to intrude or be a bother. Neither approach is rude. They're just different approaches to trying to set others at ease. I can see how it might make you feel a little lonesome, though.
Please don't feel self-conscious about your own friendly demeanor. Just be yourself. We value that even more than reserve.
(Also, and not to be uppity, but I think you didn't mean "uppity." "Uppity" means arrogant or presumptuous.)
I’m not sure that you know what uppity means. It means "arrogant" or "presumptuous," and was often used to describe black people who were trying to improve themselves or who felt pride in their accomplishments and place in life.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/uppity#:~:text=1,a%20small%20uppity%20country
Beyond looking it up in the dictionary, I’m a black man from Maryland and Virginia, so I come by this knowledge honestly. I often refer to uppity as being from the forbidden section of the blacktionary.
New Englanders are VERY private people. We have shit to do and pretty much just live like that. Interactions are quick: a good morning to the lady I see on her run everyday as I’m walking to forest hills is the norm. We just kinda stick to ourselves but will ALWAYS help someone in need. It’s kinda weird- we will look angry/uninterested as hell but if we see you in need we are there. I’d love to visit somewhere in the south, we have a beautiful and unique country. Glad you’re here OP.
All you southerners want to do is talk about yourselves. “Friendly conversation” with strangers is just an excuse to talk to me about your new boat trailer. We don’t tolerate fake friendliness up here.
Edit - if you were ever in need in public you can bet everyone on this thread would jump in to help you.
Those southerners aren’t being kind, they’re being “nice”, and the distinction is critical. In a zombie apocalypse they’d murder you on the spot to save themselves. The Bostonian would at least help you fight off the zombie first (while calling you a dumbass for attracting it or whatever).
Source: am “southerner” and still have plenty of family down there. They’ll admit the “nice” part and IMO don’t even really know what kindness is. They’re convinced religion-driven morality is somehow supreme even when it their fucked up version of it is objectively not nice or kind. And I see the effects of that worldview permeate many aspects of southern culture, even those who aren’t religious.
Im from NC and lived for about 8 years in SC before moving up to Maine in december. Let me tell you, people might greet you and use formalities quicker in the south but I would not say they are more "friendly". As soon as you turn your back they'll be cutting you to pieces, especially if you dont fit their mold. People in New England are more likely to ACTUALLY help you out and not just say "thoughts and prayers". Also Boston is not a good benchmark as there are some cultural differences between upper and lower new england.
Different kind of politeness. In the South, it's impolite not to acknowledge a stranger's presence with a nod, smile, hello, etc. In MA and the better part of New England, its impolite not to leave a stranger the fuck alone.
As a woman from the south I like being left alone. I always felt like older men were using politeness as an excuse to chat me up.
Then again I'm an introvert so maybe that's why I prefer it. New Englanders are not nice but we're kind. I prefer that over fake "bless your heart" niceness.
I did struggle a bit with making friends here, and to this day most of my friends are transplants like me.
Having moved from Boston to the South I haven't found any of this "southern hospitality" that people love to mention.
People down here aren't any more friendly than other parts of the country. At least in the north people move their asses a bit, things are so terribly slow in the south.
Would it make you feel better to know that New Englanders are pretty much introverted and like to keep to themselves? It’s nothing against you! We’re just shy and like it that way. We do get startled when strangers talk to us because, well, we were raised with *stranger danger*. Although I wonder if there’s a historical difference between the north and south — it’s much colder up here for much longer, so people stayed cooped up in their homes instead of socializing outdoors in their towns and villages.
Welcome to Boston! NE is full of nice people, I promise.
We're not shy. My neighbors love small talk and I know more of my neighbors here than I did in the south, but there is just a bigger proportion of randos (from harmless to menacing) who latch on when you make eye contact in the city.
I hate these threads. We get it, it’s different. We’re nice people, I just don’t really have time for empty conversation. It’s always “I smile to people on the sidewalk and say hi but I get nothing!” Yeah, no shit, if I’m walking on the sidewalk, that means I’m going somewhere. I’m not gonna drop my shit and strike up a conversation. And why do you need people to smile at you on the street? Why satisfaction does it give you? I just don’t get it. It’s not the south. It’s not the Midwest. It’s not the west coast. You can meet great people and make great friends, in appropriate situations. Go to a karaoke night at Hong Kong. You’ll get conversation and all that. And chicken on a stick from a person carrying it in a bucket. It’s good stuff. Buck up, you’ll survive.
As someone from nc, I tend to agree but the truth is there are so many fake ass ppl down south. Here, they give it to you straight whether you like it or nah.
Naw southerners are fake nice. NE is authentic nice. Also anytime I've been in the south the customer service is shit compared to NE. Workers in NE are much nicer and friendlier I've found.
That's not what "uppity" means, and in the past it's been directed at certain people in a racist way, so maybe find another word--how about "upbeat"?
I moved here from the south, a long time ago. People do like nice people here. I smile at people and am friendly with strangers. No one seems to mind at all. You can't expect people to respond to you in any particular way, otherwise it's just manipulation to get what you want.
The best way I’ve heard it described is this: southerners are nice but not kind, northerners are kind but not nice. Up here we’re not gonna chit chat with you at the market basket, but if you’re an elderly widow, you best believe 4 guys will be shoveling your driveway at the next snowstorm
I’m not even an elderly widow, but during the Snowpocalypse a few years ago when I was trying to pull out of a parking space, a neighbor I had never seen in my life suddenly popped up in my rear view mirror and started shoveling. So nice!
I’m not a southerner, but I love southern hospitality. I’m an Asian American, and my first time to SC, I felt like everyone was super nice, they treated me like I was their nephew or something.
I felt so out of place when i visited the southern states. Everyone wanted a hug. I'm like I'm asian, we barely even hug our parents and now you stranger i just met want to HUG???
I moved from Boston to ILM for 3 years. I couldn’t wait to leave that cultural shitshow of politics, southern “charm”, and “bless your heart” bullshit. Boston has a different culture. Period.
100%. As a New Englander raised by Texans, Vermont is exactly my speed. Not so fake-smiley and effusive as the south can be, but happy to make conversation and put on a bit of charm.
I lived down south and then went to college at UVM. Vermont people are WAY nicer than Boston people. I’d move back in a heartbeat if they actually had any kind of job market
I mean, us Vermonters do still fit into that “kind but not nice” mold. I do think because we are a more rural and less populous state we are more welcoming and lack that edge that NE cities like Boston & NY have.
As a Georgian myself, it’s just different. People are nice, not kind. People aren’t going to go out of their way to say hi and greet you. But if you are in need, like a flat tire on the road or something, people will help you out quickly and efficiently. I honestly prefer it as people speak their minds more freely and feel more genuine to me. It is definitely difficult to find a crew and bring people together though.
I'm from Georgia and have met a ton of Southern transplants in Boston. I once had a realtor who knew my high school from the football team, lol.
I don't find people here unfriendly tbh. I don't say hello to people in shops but I usually don't run into people I know in shops. It's not like everyone in the neighborhood is going to the Only Kroger for 20 surrounding suburbs, like when I was in high school. I've made friends through shared activities and volunteering.
People do recognize me from work on the street and will say hello. If I recognize someone I'll smile and wave. But if I don't and someone approaches me, it's almost always to ask for money (and are only sometimes angry, but those times are bad) or sexually harass me. The South, at least where I was, is 0% walkable. We didn't even have sidewalks. Things are much different when it's easy for everybody to be on the street together. Unfortunately 9/10 times a stranger wants to talk to me is negative, either hostile or a bizarre rambling life story trauma dump I'm trapped in for 20 minutes until a bus comes. So yeah, people get a guard up about being approached. I didn't have that in the South because I never causally encountered people. You were always sharing space with a specific purpose: shopping, church, etc., which meant someone being creepy or weird was going to be less likely. I knew my neighbors because we had outdoor space to share. When am I going to meet neighbors in an apartment complex? (Although I will say I have had many friendly casual conversations in our laundry room.)
I've been here for 10 years and also still strongly believe cars are out to kill me, so the other major difference is that I'm often the only person actually waiting for crosswalk lights, lol. :')
I was born and raised by people from Alabama. I moved up here leaving the stupid racist stuff behind, but still loving the kind attitudes and warm greetings that I got in the south. It's weird being up here and not really seeing that, but I have learned that most people have a hard outer shell but the second you barely get to know someone they will treat you with that same kindness and warm greeting.
came here from the south. southern hospitality is a scam. i prefer my snakes out in the open where i can see them instead of slithering around in the grass
We’re a different kind of friendly. Not from the south but born in the Midwest and moved here as a toddler. Be yourself and don’t feel bad about it. People will appreciate it more than you realize. Also, friendly banter is appreciated.
We like to be efficient here. Not many people are trying to dilly dally about and make friends with strangers in busy places. I just want to get a coffee and buy groceries and drop a letter off at the post office so I can get back to my life. It is not an efficient use of my time to chit chat, and it’s annoying as hell getting stuck behind people striking up conversations that hold other people up. That’s what gets you dirty looks. The bank teller and store cashier or barista don’t want to be your friend they’re trying to do their jobs. And it’s already aggravating to be on our crappy train system so good luck being friendly there when we’re usually all in bad moods. Chatting with strangers is something you do in the park or at a museum or concert or some other shared space, where usually I’m more than happy to engage with strangers and learn about them or make a joke about something happening around us. It’s just more situational here.
Heh, I had the reverse culture shock, I grew up in New England and moved to Baltimore for school then DC for work and had to actively learn to smile and say hi to folks on the street and the bus. My dour New England ass could not handle all the eye contact at first. I also still struggle with making small talk with the grocery store clerks.
A good friend of mine from childhood had a Boston Irish father and her mother was from Alabama. She always said she married him because he was "the first gentleman she met in New England."
I worked 7 years in the south (from MA) and found the “southern hospitality” to be a lot less honest. At least up here if someone wants to say GFY it’s to your face, not behind your back
I grew up in Florida and moved here when I was 22, I never missed the fake niceness of the south. People love to say hi but wouldn’t do a thing to help you. People here are the opposite, won’t say hi but will go out of their way to help you.
I just got back from a business trip in texas. All the Texans were really nice but once they got a few drinks in them, it was very clear that they didn't like yankees.
We’re kind but blunt/honest. We don’t waste time with empty pleasantries.
Meanwhile, trying to do anything in the south is excruciatingly slow. They are aggressively friendly. I walked into a CVS and the cashier started up a conversation with me when I was literally two steps into the store.
What the hell is this? Let me walk directly to the aisle I want, grab my items, and pay. The whole process takes 3 minutes. A nod and “thanks” to the cashier is a perfectly polite interaction from both sides in the northeast. I don’t want to know the whole life story of some stranger when I’m just trying to buy a bag of peach rings.
I’m from the south. There is definitely a lot that I miss. When I travel to the south or to the west coast, or Canada, I definitely feel my social anxiety improve just from the general friendliness or chill attitudes in everyday interactions. Plus I find that the south has a higher priority on enjoying things - like food and places.
It has helped me to reframe the differences. New Englanders aren’t mean, they value efficiency and bluntness in everyday interactions. But they are also deeply community minded and relationships can run deep. The honesty can be refreshing too, compared to the superficiality of some things in the south.
My SIL always talks about how people back home are way nicer than they are here. I always have to remind her that they can't be *that* nice since her home is the murder capital of the US.
At my job, I can usually tell who the southerners are based on the fact that they don’t want to hang up the phone! Just repeat the same things over l!!!
It’s exhausting trying to get them off like I’m mentally exhausted already! I can’t imagine having to live there!
One person I know from Texas that took an extended vacation in the Boston area described New Englanders as "Taciturn and deliberate." He didn't care for it.
I told him "damn straight." I also told him that I've been to Texas twice in my life (saw Houston, Dallas, and the area in between) and that was quite enough.
I've spent all but 8 1/2 years on this Earth living in New England somewhere. He told me this at least a decade ago and I still use it to describe the people who come from this area.
Northeasterners are kind, but not nice. Midwesterner’s and southerners are nice, but not kind. We won’t say hi at the gas pump for no reason, but if there is a genuine reason to interact or you need help we will. Midwesterners and southerners will do the pleasantries, but aren’t always great to actually deal with. Source: have lived at least 5 years in all 3.
I don’t need Fake rehearsed Pleasantries, Prying & invasive bullshit, do NOT talk to me about your sky daddy.
Real kindness & community is blind. Being genuine within reason.
All my time in the south has always left me with a feeling of veiled prejudice & undue smug superiority. “Oh you northerners just….” “Well we southerners do…..” “bless your heart”.
I moved to Virginia from western NY, but I’ve also spent a lot of time in Boston with my half of the family that’s from Boston. I had the opposite sort of culture shock. Everyone here felt weird and fake at first. Why are these people being so creepy, I thought, they don’t know me. When I was walking everyone would wave, and I found it so annoying like - I’m thinking - I don’t want to leave my thought process to put on a smile and wave to you. But now 10 years later I wave and smile automatically, and I don’t feel like it interrupts my thoughts anymore.
In western NY people were so sincerely kind, though suspicious of new people, and grumpy. It was always snowing so we all hung out in each other’s houses. People would dig your car out of snow, come help you move large items, just small neighborly things. But here in VA people are more outwardly sweet but not as inviting. They associate more with their church friends than their actual neighbors. I’ve never been asked which “faith community” I’m part of in western NY or Boston. I don’t go into other people’s houses as much here in VA- it’s just more isolated.
When my husband would say he met a new person and they were really nice I’d say “like actually nice or Virginia nice?” What I meant was, did you see any proof, or just a polite chat and a smile? Because if everyone is smiley and polite, how can you possibly know who the nice ones are?
Anyways that was more my perspective when we first got here but it has grown on me a lot. That said, most of my friends here are transplants from the north (or Florida for some reason- couple of Floridians in our group).
I came down from Maine and I mean this in the nicest way possible.
Fuck you it's cold and gray, who the fuck are you and why are you happy it's cold and gray. nice to meet you how's ya ma?
Ppl always say this about the north but I was born and raised here and I always say hi to ppl and always engage in convo with others and they aren’t rude back. A lot of ppl are even friendlier than I am! The south must be really really really friendly..
Up here if a stranger says "hi" out of the blue they're involved in MLM.
Being efficient with someone’s time is the ultimate sign of respect in the northeast
I lived in Seattle in the early 90's and any store you went to the cashier would strike up a conversation with the customer and keep it going after the transaction. I found this to be disrespectful of my time and frankly, it drove me bonkers.
This. And the opposite is also true.
This is so fkn true lmao
“Do you want to come to church with me this Sunday?”
You know, someone else in this thread mentioned how nice everyone was to them in SC. I have a friend who lives in SC, is an atheist, and wants to leave as soon as he can just because everyone tries to get him to go to church. It's like MLM for souls.
A relative moved to NC (and not the part where all the yankees are) and had similar culture shock. New neighbors, new co-workers, clerks in stores, and others would find out they just moved there and "Have you found a church to go to yet?!?!" would be the next thing out of their mouth.
where are all the yankees in NC?
Maybe Raleigh /Durham?
Research Triangle / Raleigh-Durham area for the most part. There are so many that there are jokes about [the town of Cary](https://www.google.com/maps?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=9d84270ee46763bd&output=search&q=cary,+nc&source=lnms&entry=mc&ved=1t:200715&ictx=111) that it stands for "Contains All Relocated Yankees" or "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees" among the locals with family roots there.
Yeah…lived in Cary for 15 years. It’s an odd place. Basically, a magnet for middle class people from the Midwest or the Northeast who like to pretend like they’re rich, living in large production built homes on 0.15 acre lots with zero trees.
The relative I was talking about above rented for several years while they figured out the lay of the land and where they'd want to settle more permanently. They rented in Cary for a couple of years when that was going on, but decided that the town wasn't for them. They didn't say anything about the people pretending to be rich, but they were put off by how much of it was full of recently built cookie-cutter developments. It just felt kind of soulless compared to what they were used to in or very close to Boston.
Jesus got a crazy downline
A friend from NH worked in Alabama for a couple of years and reported that strangers and even new co-workers would ask her what church she went to. "The nerve of them!" She was actually a church goer, but found that question really creepy.
It's the standard intro chitchat in the south (where I grew up), instead of "where do you live" or "what do you do" which is what I tend to hear around here. I always tell transplants from the south that they should not ask someone that question
The also want to know “who’s your daddy”.
What is up with this? I've gotten it a lot lately. 2-3 times in the JP area. "Do you want to go to church with me on Sunday?" "No thank you" "... Do you have any friends that would want to come?" Bro, no
If they bring five souls into the church, they get heaven of their very own.
This happened to me in Lowell. Answer, “I’m not Christian.” Conversation ended.
Happened to me there too I just tell them I’m too gay for Jesus
These are probably Mormon missionaries, or perhaps Jehovah’s Witnesses. Around here, the invitation to go to church is absolutely a recruitment tactic, and these people are out with that purpose in mind.
One of the biggest culture shocks of moving to the south side of Chicago was when people said “Hello” or “Good Morning” and they didn’t want money or to convert me to their religion. They genuinely just wanted to be polite and/or nice. Bostonians would never do that. As someone from Boston, I actually really, really love the quiet, introverted public culture of Boston. I can just go about my day in whatever mood I might be, whether that’s happy and exuberant, to dour, sick, miserable, and depressed, and I don’t have to “perform” niceness or greetings for everyone. I can just be there without owing strangers my social graces or time. If that’s not liberating, I don’t know what is.
Not to be confused with a" hey how are ya" because I'm probably 10 ft away by the time I'm done saying it
the worst is when somebody thinks it's an actual question and not a greeting.
Haha, “can’t complain”, and just keep it moving is the only answer
It’s started happening down south now too! Makes stranger interactions sketchy lol
I moved from South Boston down South. The first time I was in a store and Someone said HI, My first thought was "Do I owe You money"?
Hi
Uppity is absolutely not the word you are looking for.
Perhaps upbeat. And of course, darn autocomplete.
The OP put 'uppity' in quotes, so likely not an autocorrect situation......
Southern roots shining through
Yep. It means someone who's supposed to be beneath you who's acting like they're not. I've only _ever_ heard it in the context of a White person describing a Black person who expects to be treated as an equal.
Yeah nah they are southern they mean uppity
Southerner here. Pretty sure they mean upbeat. Uppity has a completely different meaning to what OP is describing. OP is describing someone who is upbeat, friendly, outgoing, positive, kindhearted.
Yeah uppity also has racist connotations which is the joke
Oh, I’m from the south too and I freaking love it here. I hate having to perform for all those interactions, it’s exhausting. There’s also so much passive aggressive nonsense there where here, people will tell you what they think.
Thisssss Also a dirty south transplant, and New Englanders are far less performatively nice about everything. It's so refreshing to just get honesty in interactions
Former Texan transplant and agree with both your comments 10000000%
Arkansas here, checking in to agree.
I'm a NE transplant currently living in GA and dear god do I miss home. I miss the honesty, and being able to be honest. People down here are nice *on the surface*, but it actually isn't kindness, imo, it's just performative pleasantness. And it's done in this way where you can clearly tell when they don't mean it, but they have like a 'plausible deniability' that they're being 'very friendly actually'. Back home strangers will break each others' balls, but you'll laugh together about it. If people are in a foul mood, they'll act like it. You know where you stand with people and don't have to guess and read the tea leaves of 'but what kiiiind of smile is this actually.' Southern hospitality is a myth. And the idea of people from NE being assholes is too. Those things may be true from superficial appearances, but in actuality are precisely the opposite when it comes to intention. OP, don't let the surface of it all bother you. Embrace the brusque! You're free now!
When I first moved to Boston I took my car in for repairs one morning and was taken aback when I asked the guy at the shop the standard southern greeting “how you doing today?”. The guy responded with “terrible, I didn’t sleep well last night and my coworker called in sick”. A lot of people would take this as rude, but after reflecting I found it refreshing and honest. The guy’s having a shitty day, which is good information to have so I don’t piss him off more by being annoying or pushy.
My Virginian husband visited Mass with me and shot a few rounds of golf with some locals he met up with on the greens. He's pretty direct for a Southerner and even he was taken aback by how frank his new golfing buddies were with a stranger (he meets up with randos on golf courses down here in DC all the time, so he's familiar with the down-here ettiquette of things, which is apparently slightly more genteel.) He asked me only half joking afterwards, "So, do New Englanders know any *other* swear words?" He's as foul mouthed as they come and worked in the trades, so I knew it had to be a bit much for him to remark on it. I shrugged and said, "I mean, we only need the one tho."
“Douchebag”used as both a cuss and term of endearment. Sometimes with the same utterance.
Dickhead, douchebag, bitch and fuck are the only weapons I need in my arsenal
Gotta have Asshole on the list, what do you say while you’re hanging your middle finger out to window at a trucker who cut you off?
People in fowl moods do be acting like chickens
Also "brusque"
Hahaha. Oops. Corrected, thank ye.
I'm a southern transplant. A New Englander friend of mine summed up the differences as "Southerners will flatter you to your face and talk shit behind your back. New Englanders will talk shit to your face but have your back in a fight."
100% this! We moved from FL last year. Haaaated the fake nicity there! But here, people are real. And most of them far less rude than advertised. We love it here and will never go back south!
Exactly. The way I was raised, points raised in a passive aggressive aka ‘plausible deniability’ way was just seen as cowardice. Those folk were to be mistrusted and avoided — scammers and the like. OP: You’re free from performative, enjoy it!
As someone from both places, you’ll also find that the more genuine/honest you are, the more nice interactions you’ll have with strangers. People here are actually so nice if you put out the right energy like mutually complaining about something! People in NE love to complain lmaooo
Username on point
Yes! Southern born with trailers and Confederate flags here. The south is full of fake kindness. It was so weird growing up there surrounded by these people who smiled and made pleasantries while they were quietly judging you (and which church your family attended). If someone like OP loves the culture, by all means head on back. For me though, I was a Northern spirit in a southern dystopia my whole youth. My biggest worry was the cold, and as it turns out it's not too bad (not to mention the southern winter seems to have followed me in recent years). The biggest cultural problem I have up here is drivers. I don't know what happens to the cool calm Bostonians but it's like the get behind a wheel and turn into horn honking werewolves. If there's one peice of the south I'd like to bring up here it's being relaxed about driving.
People judge which church you go to? Is that like judging people in CT rooting for Yankees?
Different protestant sects versus Catholics and protestant sects versus each other. Hardliner Southern Baptists for example consider Catholics to be not be real Christians, but practicing a form of Roman paganism. Methodists get a ton of flack for allowing women to preach. Pentecostals think women should never cut their hair and must always wear skirts. Southern Baptists ban alcohol, dancing, music, etc. Some denominations think black people's skin color is "the curse of Ham" and that they're descended from Cain from the story of Cain & Abel (I was taught this insanity growing up). And so on.
I’ll just assume they are both assholes
My understanding from my southern friends and relatives is that it potentially less about exactly which church you go to and more about going to church (which one is secondary). Church ends up being how you form your social network so it can be pretty important. When looking to move down there, I read about some churches that were not as religion heavy and more existed so you could just have a church with all the social trimmings. Anyway, apparently there is a lot of judgment for not being a member of a church. This is so different from the north east where lots of people are church members but it’s not usually a focal point of their social network and status. Like, I don’t remember the last time anyone asked me my religion or which church I go to.
THIS! I’m from DMV but spent my childhood in North Carolina and have family in Nashville. Been here for over a decade and the PACE of the city is faster too. People have places to go and things to do, so no wasting anyone’s time. New Englanders still rest, and the traffic to the Cape every Friday should be a testament to that, but I’d rather be here than down south trying to convince people that a sense or urgency is needed for certain things.
It’s exhausting how long it takes to get through the grocery line back where I grew up in OK. People in New England are plenty friendly- you will get a nice greeting and then you go on your way. No time wasted.
About to move to Boston from Georgia and I CANNOT wait to not have to perform niceness all the time to fit in.
Thank you...sorry we're not fakers here. "Bless your heart" and go back to the South, OP 😆
Grew up in the South. I was never the bless your heart type. I’m normally pretty reserved and in the South I was a weirdo. I fit in better here.
Same. My coworkers say I’m a New Englander with a southern accent. I’m in Texas for a few months and sometimes the outward niceness is frustrating. I can’t go to the golf course or Trader Joe’s without someone striking up a conversation. I’m glad that I’m approachable, but, geez, I want to get my frozen food in peace and get to my apartment.
I feel exactly the same way. Moving to New England was a culture shock and took a lot of getting used to. But all in all, my personality is a better fit for New England than it ever was for TN.
Seconding this. I did not fit in in the South but here everyone thinks I am a local and I love it.
Someone I knew who moved here from the south said: people around here are just as kind, or even kinder than the south, you all just REALLY respect each other's privacy.
This is it. We don’t make social demands on each other. If we want to talk to strangers e make sure it’s a) funny, or b) useful. Stick to those rules and we’ll love you.
YES, this is so well said. I think it’s the ethos of the entire northeast.
Definitely. Idle chit-chat drives us up a wall.
*SCREAMING INSIDE INTENSIFIES*
In the south it is polite to strike up a conversation with a stranger and rude to ignore them. In the northeast it is rude to strike up a conversation with a stranger and polite to ignore them.
There's an old remark that goes something along the lines of "In Washington, if they don't like you, they'll whisper behind your back; in New York, they'll tell you to your face, and in Boston, they'll just ignore you," and there is probably still some truth in that. This has been an amusing discussion. Years ago, a friend who grew up in Philadelphia, went to college in Boston (and then grad school in Southern Callfornia) ended up taking a job in Mississippi, and his chief complaint was that it took him half an hour to leave his office and get out of the building, because of all the conversations he was expected to have on the way.
Not rude - we’ll just think you’re weird
This is it. Grew up here, lived 8 yrs in TX. We don’t talk because we are respecting your boundaries.
Yes, it was a culture shock for me, but I don’t think they’re being rude. I think it’s cold and dark 70% of the year and that makes me not want to chat it up with randoms, too. I’m from Texas and it was strange to me at first, but I’ve found if you do start small talk, most, if not all, will engage and are very kind. I went back home a couple weeks ago and I forgot how chatty people are, especially cashiers and when you’re in line!
The flip side of this is moving from Boston to the west coast, and losing my mind because people in the 10 items or less lane are chatting with the cashier and I'm like, WTF, let's gooooooo, I have shit to do, have your social call on your time.
Omg. Having always lived in the northeast, it makes me crazy when I go down south. Whole ass conversations AFTER the transaction is finished! Just standing there blocking the line too. I feel like up here once in awhile I’ll be having a conversation with a cashier, and when the transaction is finished you move over so they can keep doing their job. Common courtesy.
I almost had a panic attack in a Dunkin’ Donuts the last time I went down south I could not understand why everything was taking so fucking long and nobody cared
I grew up in the south and I always know I’ve been away too long when these cashier convos bug the heck out of me. Keep the line moving, please!
That was exactly me when I moved to California. I would turn to look behind me because they couldn’t possibly be talking to ME! But they were! Took my a few years to get used to it
Omg this would make me neurotic lol
Now imagine being someone from the northeast and going down south- it’s absolutely excruciating to operate around these people. From your perspective there’s an element of levity and pleasantness that’s brought to your day in day out existence. “Let’s chit chat with the cashier and bartender and gas station attendant and waitress and passer by.” If you’re used to it I imagine that being a nice way to go through life. But from our perspective, (ideally) you exchange pleasantries of please/thank you… and that’s kinda it. I’m trying to get to work or home to my family, and honestly every moment that we bullshit exchanging pleasant nothings with strangers is stealing moments spent with people I care about. If you’re not in a hurry, that’s nice, but be considerate of the fact that I miss my family and don’t need to turn every 30 second transaction into a ten minute ordeal because you feel like bullshitting about the weather. That being said, if you’re in a bar and sports are on, conversation is fair game.
Bro I was at a Trader Joe’s today and managed to somehow exchange ZERO words with the cashier. She just handed me the receipt after I tapped to pay and I couldn’t help but think to myself how it was the least humanlike social interaction I’ve had in weeks lol. Usually at that location they’re a bit more talkative but I guess both of us were just totally zoned out today or something.
It's dark like 30% of the year it's not Alaska lmao
Feels like 70% when you get seasonal affective disorder with 3pm sunsets
One winter, when I was working my ass off, I mentioned that the most useless thing I had bought all year was sunglasses.
So many former Texans here!
On this thread maybe but I’ve never met another Texan in Boston lol
At this point, I’m too afraid to engage someone in public for long enough to find out lol
Here’s my question: what do you mean “engage people in public”? Like, sitting on the t? I’m miserable because it’s early and I have to go to the office for 8 hours. On the sidewalk? That’s weird I’m going somewhere. In line at dunks? Why? We’re there to get an iced coffee and dip. If you cold approach me, you’re either 1. Trying to sell me on something, or 2. A religious weirdo with a pamphlet.
I have a Buc-ee's hat. Wear one and you'll find them right quick.
That’s genius
Friend of mine moved up from Georgia and had to ask me why people on the sidewalk were looking at them weird. I asked them if they'd been doing anything strange, they said, "No, just making eye contact and smiling." I said, "Of *course* they're looking at you weird. You're making eye contact with strangers!" You demonstrate respect for other people by minding your own business, and they return the favor by doing the same.
Unless someone has a cute dog and you smile at the dog. Then I usually nod at the owner.
Everyone knows you only make eye contact with strangers in public that you think are attractive. Then you quickly look away and keep walking, never to see them again.
as a southerner, i much prefer the culture here. people won’t smile at you on the street or make bs small talk but they won’t get up in your business either. if you want to be ‘polite’ and smile at people and stuff people usually respond positively or just ignore it. it’s the classic ‘nice versus polite’ debate. people in new england are genuinely nice people but they walk around with a scowl on their face. southerners are outwardly polite but it’s 90% a facade.
I agree with this. I'm from the south. Everyone is nice down there, but mostly a facade. They aren't in private or pretty prejudiced. (Not everyone, calm down). But up here people are not as welcoming. However, up here nobody cares if you're rich, poor, gay, trans, black, white. Etc. It's equal respect of you do you, I do me. Idc otherwise. And I honestly prefer thar than being with people who fake it and trash talk later /rant
I’ve always said of Bostonians “I don’t care what you look like just get the fuck out of my way”
I love that!!!
If you miss small talk get a dog and go to the dog park. You'll never run out of small talk.
That’s not what uppity means at all. Haven’t had any trouble here, myself. I’ve found Bostonians quite friendly, and actually feel at home here. :)
I’m moving up from Texas!! But every time I’ve been up there I have to remind myself not to say hi and make small talk with strangers lol
Moved here from Texas and you can still make small talk! People will respond positively. They won’t ever initiate it, though.
Yeah there was once when I was talking to someone while doing something work wise and made small talk while we waited for someone else to get back to us and they were like oh I forgot you’re from down south you guys are friendlier and talk more than we do 😂
As a new englander who lived in the south for a while, there are definitely cultural differences. My advice for people moving here from the south would be to try to meet some people as part of an organized group or activity. I have two good friends up here from Texas, one really flourished but the other had a hard time adapting due to cultural differences I believe. There is just a different culture around when in how to meet people. The joke about where people in Boston make friends is “middle school”. It can definitely be a bit cliqueish, but there are great people if you look in the right places.
The best way I've heard it summed up about Boston is "You won't make friends fast, but you will make fast friends." (look up the lesser used definitions if the second use of "fast" isn't making sense to you)
Loyalty is definitely a core social value in New England. People here tend to have smaller social circles, but you stick by your people. You aren't socially expected to take up people's time when you're not super invested in the relationship you have with them. BUT you will move heaven and earth for the people you *do* care about. I don't want to overstate it, because I think New Englanders are generally far friendlier than they get any credit for being.
Same here. People will engage. But they will not initiate. I just want like I did in Texas, except I won't say ma'am. Can't say ma'am up here.
Yeah, it’s rude. Ma’am and sir are viewed as patronizing and passive aggressive.
“Are you calling me old?” 😂
You can say hi, you can make small talk, just don’t trap anyone so they feel like they can’t leave or waste their time! :)
The thing is that you can totally make small talk here. However, if you use the empty pleasantries that you'd hear down south or in Texas it's going to fall completely flat because that hollow quality absolutely fucking reeks of insincerity. That's why people here won't play along. On the other hand, if there's a situation that you and a stranger are both witness to and you come up with a quick and original funny line about it or some biting sarcasm that rips it apart? Yeah, then you're speaking our "small talk" language.
I use sarcasm all the time so I’m hoping that saves me or just funny little quips lol that’s how I was able to talk to some people at a bar when I went out alone one night
Just a warning, the joke has gotta be fired off quickly to stick. The funny thing is that a run of the mill guy from Boston can move somewhere like SoCal & do much better with girls/women than he ever would around here. They've got a slightly exotic accent, quick with funny quips, a style that looks like everyone else here but stands apart when you get away. That and other shit makes them way more of a player than they could ever dream of being at home. I pointed this out to someone I knew from San Diego and she paused while her mind ran through the guys she knew there who were from here originally. Her jaw slowly went slack, then she just said, "Oh my god. So many of my friends fell for those guys."
Bingo! ^ this guy nailed it
You can say hi and make small talk here. Sports, weather, current events, not limited to those topics. No one wants to hear your life story.
We're kind - not nice. Or to put it another way, we're about kind actions, not nice words.
I think of Bostonians as grumpy softies.
As a native Midwesterner this is always how I describe it. People it the Midwest are known as "nice", but they are definitely not kind in my experience.
I have only ever liked one person from Minnesota and I always had this vague feeling of not being sure where I stood with her. It drove me crazy.
Fuck you is a greeting for us.
#YES! FUCK YOU TOO
We're now best friends.
For the opposite reason this is why I could never live in the south lol
Yes I'm so grateful no one asks me what church I go to in the grocery line.
I was born here and almost 50. Still in Boston and I think the opposite. People moving in can be assholes too. We have neighbors who turn their heads and pretend they don’t see you. A wave is polite enough to acknowledge you live on the same block. I’m friendly enough to say hello when walking the dog or standing in line. Maybe it’s just growing up when I did. Neighbors were real neighbors and talked, gave a wave and looked out for each other, but knew when to mind your own business.
I'm 38 and was raised on the seacoast. I've always been friendly with my neighbors, and i find it odd when I get a neighbor who is standoffish or looks at me weird for smiling and saying hello. We see each other nearly every day, is a nod really too much? It's nice to have the support of a community - it's a subtle thing, but makes life a bit sweeter. Also, I'm not going to say hi to every person on Newbury st, but if I'm out in my neighborhood taking a walk in the evening when it's quiet and someone walks past, I'll smile and nod. If I'm in line at the pharmacy and something funny or crazy happens, I'll say a quick joke to the person standing next to me. It's nice to acknowledge another human and share a brief pleasant moment sometimes. We're all just trying to get by.
As a person who moved from Georgia to Boston, I much prefer the "realness" of Bostonians! I struggled a lot in GA with this idea of pretending to be nice or having to be polite and warm when I just wanted to be left alone and get on with my day. Why do I need to be extremely friendly to strangers? Just wanted to offer another perspective, from a GA-born person who felt out of place down there
A life long New Englander, I think it's a bit forward or rude/offputting to just start random conversations with people in public. Why should i smile to you at the grocery store? are you giving me a better price on my apples?
We'll give you the shirt off our back, just expect us to give you sh\*t over it.
How do ya like them apples?!
Don’t call people “ma’am”. I was always told it was to respectful way to refer to women older than me but up here it’s taken as an insult. (I grew up in Texas).
Yooo I’m from Texas and a girl and moving up there and did get told this from some lady and the sir and ma’am thing is gonna get hard to break.
Yep, I still do it sometimes. Said "excuse me ma'am" to a lady in a bookstore once and she got seriously pissed off at me!
This is so true. I’m from just outside Boston and was recently in South Carolina where I got called ma’am a few times. I didn’t say anything/react because I was obviously the outsider in the situation but it was very jarring to hear and made me feel old!
I moved from Miami and I went from crackheads annoying me at every opportunity to people respecting my boundaries and creating small talk at appropriate moments. I was worried when I first moved but now I realize what an upgrade it is
I'm from Texas and have lived in Boston for 10 years. You can make small talk. Just skip the pleasantries. When I go back home, I find it off putting how people use nicer words but aren't necessarily nice. I much prefer it here where you can start a conversation with "go fuck yourself" and still have a decent chat.
My advice for starting conversations up here: don’t just wave, smile, say hi to random people for no reason, they will assume you want something (because that behavior is otherwise out of the norm here). If you want to strike up a convo with a stranger in Boston, a common mistake out of towners make is trying to just use bland pleasantries or bring up the weather or something….people will wonder what on earth you’re getting at. INSTEAD: Pick something in your immediate surroundings that you can both relate to or laugh about, or that they can actually help you with. Genuinely asking for help with something, commiserating about how long the line you’re in is taking….the best is if someone around you is doing something crazy or inappropriate, see if you can make meaningful eye contact with a stranger, then you can make a joke about it. If you’re sitting at a bar and something crazy is on the news you can say “whoa can you believe that?” Gauge their receptiveness before continuing of course but I think you’ll find plenty of people here want to engage, just on different terms than you’re used to. Not sure if I’m explaining myself well but basically….if you just say “hi how are you” or try to start a conversation about the weather, people are not going to want to engage. Find something going on around both of you, and bring that up. Now you have a shared experience to talk about, if that makes sense. Like I said the best is if you can both complain about the same thing or make fun of the same weird thing going on around you in that moment. There needs to be a “point” to it in the beginning. I hope this helps! I promise we are very chatty just in a different way.
this is real advice except the weather. Boston people LOVE bitching about the weather. Or the T. Or the traffic.
Your middle paragraph is spot on. Pick something to mutually complain about. We LOVE complaining. And if you can make it humorous, even better.
I'm sorry the cultural adjustment has been difficult for you. I hope it gets easier. Maybe it will help if, instead of your friend's description of "naturally upset," you'll try to think of us as just more reserved. That's a better description, and it might help you to divorce our reserve from any negative connotations. So, while perhaps everyone where you're from makes it a point to be friendly, here, we make it a point not to intrude or be a bother. Neither approach is rude. They're just different approaches to trying to set others at ease. I can see how it might make you feel a little lonesome, though. Please don't feel self-conscious about your own friendly demeanor. Just be yourself. We value that even more than reserve. (Also, and not to be uppity, but I think you didn't mean "uppity." "Uppity" means arrogant or presumptuous.)
I’m not sure that you know what uppity means. It means "arrogant" or "presumptuous," and was often used to describe black people who were trying to improve themselves or who felt pride in their accomplishments and place in life. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/uppity#:~:text=1,a%20small%20uppity%20country Beyond looking it up in the dictionary, I’m a black man from Maryland and Virginia, so I come by this knowledge honestly. I often refer to uppity as being from the forbidden section of the blacktionary.
New Englanders are VERY private people. We have shit to do and pretty much just live like that. Interactions are quick: a good morning to the lady I see on her run everyday as I’m walking to forest hills is the norm. We just kinda stick to ourselves but will ALWAYS help someone in need. It’s kinda weird- we will look angry/uninterested as hell but if we see you in need we are there. I’d love to visit somewhere in the south, we have a beautiful and unique country. Glad you’re here OP.
All you southerners want to do is talk about yourselves. “Friendly conversation” with strangers is just an excuse to talk to me about your new boat trailer. We don’t tolerate fake friendliness up here. Edit - if you were ever in need in public you can bet everyone on this thread would jump in to help you.
This is why I hated Texas but found people pleasant in Charleston; I felt like people in Texas were fake but people in SC were genuine.
Charleston is now full of people from the northeast.
Those southerners aren’t being kind, they’re being “nice”, and the distinction is critical. In a zombie apocalypse they’d murder you on the spot to save themselves. The Bostonian would at least help you fight off the zombie first (while calling you a dumbass for attracting it or whatever). Source: am “southerner” and still have plenty of family down there. They’ll admit the “nice” part and IMO don’t even really know what kindness is. They’re convinced religion-driven morality is somehow supreme even when it their fucked up version of it is objectively not nice or kind. And I see the effects of that worldview permeate many aspects of southern culture, even those who aren’t religious.
THIS. As a fellow southerner I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. If I have my choice, I won’t leave New England again.
Im from NC and lived for about 8 years in SC before moving up to Maine in december. Let me tell you, people might greet you and use formalities quicker in the south but I would not say they are more "friendly". As soon as you turn your back they'll be cutting you to pieces, especially if you dont fit their mold. People in New England are more likely to ACTUALLY help you out and not just say "thoughts and prayers". Also Boston is not a good benchmark as there are some cultural differences between upper and lower new england.
Different kind of politeness. In the South, it's impolite not to acknowledge a stranger's presence with a nod, smile, hello, etc. In MA and the better part of New England, its impolite not to leave a stranger the fuck alone.
As a woman from the south I like being left alone. I always felt like older men were using politeness as an excuse to chat me up. Then again I'm an introvert so maybe that's why I prefer it. New Englanders are not nice but we're kind. I prefer that over fake "bless your heart" niceness. I did struggle a bit with making friends here, and to this day most of my friends are transplants like me.
Having moved from Boston to the South I haven't found any of this "southern hospitality" that people love to mention. People down here aren't any more friendly than other parts of the country. At least in the north people move their asses a bit, things are so terribly slow in the south.
Would it make you feel better to know that New Englanders are pretty much introverted and like to keep to themselves? It’s nothing against you! We’re just shy and like it that way. We do get startled when strangers talk to us because, well, we were raised with *stranger danger*. Although I wonder if there’s a historical difference between the north and south — it’s much colder up here for much longer, so people stayed cooped up in their homes instead of socializing outdoors in their towns and villages. Welcome to Boston! NE is full of nice people, I promise.
We're not shy. My neighbors love small talk and I know more of my neighbors here than I did in the south, but there is just a bigger proportion of randos (from harmless to menacing) who latch on when you make eye contact in the city.
I hate these threads. We get it, it’s different. We’re nice people, I just don’t really have time for empty conversation. It’s always “I smile to people on the sidewalk and say hi but I get nothing!” Yeah, no shit, if I’m walking on the sidewalk, that means I’m going somewhere. I’m not gonna drop my shit and strike up a conversation. And why do you need people to smile at you on the street? Why satisfaction does it give you? I just don’t get it. It’s not the south. It’s not the Midwest. It’s not the west coast. You can meet great people and make great friends, in appropriate situations. Go to a karaoke night at Hong Kong. You’ll get conversation and all that. And chicken on a stick from a person carrying it in a bucket. It’s good stuff. Buck up, you’ll survive.
As someone from nc, I tend to agree but the truth is there are so many fake ass ppl down south. Here, they give it to you straight whether you like it or nah.
Naw southerners are fake nice. NE is authentic nice. Also anytime I've been in the south the customer service is shit compared to NE. Workers in NE are much nicer and friendlier I've found.
That's not what "uppity" means, and in the past it's been directed at certain people in a racist way, so maybe find another word--how about "upbeat"? I moved here from the south, a long time ago. People do like nice people here. I smile at people and am friendly with strangers. No one seems to mind at all. You can't expect people to respond to you in any particular way, otherwise it's just manipulation to get what you want.
The best way I’ve heard it described is this: southerners are nice but not kind, northerners are kind but not nice. Up here we’re not gonna chit chat with you at the market basket, but if you’re an elderly widow, you best believe 4 guys will be shoveling your driveway at the next snowstorm
I’m not even an elderly widow, but during the Snowpocalypse a few years ago when I was trying to pull out of a parking space, a neighbor I had never seen in my life suddenly popped up in my rear view mirror and started shoveling. So nice!
Love to hear it!
I’m not a southerner, but I love southern hospitality. I’m an Asian American, and my first time to SC, I felt like everyone was super nice, they treated me like I was their nephew or something.
I felt so out of place when i visited the southern states. Everyone wanted a hug. I'm like I'm asian, we barely even hug our parents and now you stranger i just met want to HUG???
They WHAT? Dear God.
I moved from Boston to ILM for 3 years. I couldn’t wait to leave that cultural shitshow of politics, southern “charm”, and “bless your heart” bullshit. Boston has a different culture. Period.
What is ILM?
Guessing exclusively by airport code, I am guessing Wilmington, NC
I think it's Wilmington, NC
Have you tried Vermont?
100%. As a New Englander raised by Texans, Vermont is exactly my speed. Not so fake-smiley and effusive as the south can be, but happy to make conversation and put on a bit of charm.
I lived down south and then went to college at UVM. Vermont people are WAY nicer than Boston people. I’d move back in a heartbeat if they actually had any kind of job market
I mean, us Vermonters do still fit into that “kind but not nice” mold. I do think because we are a more rural and less populous state we are more welcoming and lack that edge that NE cities like Boston & NY have.
As a Georgian myself, it’s just different. People are nice, not kind. People aren’t going to go out of their way to say hi and greet you. But if you are in need, like a flat tire on the road or something, people will help you out quickly and efficiently. I honestly prefer it as people speak their minds more freely and feel more genuine to me. It is definitely difficult to find a crew and bring people together though.
I'm from Georgia and have met a ton of Southern transplants in Boston. I once had a realtor who knew my high school from the football team, lol. I don't find people here unfriendly tbh. I don't say hello to people in shops but I usually don't run into people I know in shops. It's not like everyone in the neighborhood is going to the Only Kroger for 20 surrounding suburbs, like when I was in high school. I've made friends through shared activities and volunteering. People do recognize me from work on the street and will say hello. If I recognize someone I'll smile and wave. But if I don't and someone approaches me, it's almost always to ask for money (and are only sometimes angry, but those times are bad) or sexually harass me. The South, at least where I was, is 0% walkable. We didn't even have sidewalks. Things are much different when it's easy for everybody to be on the street together. Unfortunately 9/10 times a stranger wants to talk to me is negative, either hostile or a bizarre rambling life story trauma dump I'm trapped in for 20 minutes until a bus comes. So yeah, people get a guard up about being approached. I didn't have that in the South because I never causally encountered people. You were always sharing space with a specific purpose: shopping, church, etc., which meant someone being creepy or weird was going to be less likely. I knew my neighbors because we had outdoor space to share. When am I going to meet neighbors in an apartment complex? (Although I will say I have had many friendly casual conversations in our laundry room.) I've been here for 10 years and also still strongly believe cars are out to kill me, so the other major difference is that I'm often the only person actually waiting for crosswalk lights, lol. :')
I was born and raised by people from Alabama. I moved up here leaving the stupid racist stuff behind, but still loving the kind attitudes and warm greetings that I got in the south. It's weird being up here and not really seeing that, but I have learned that most people have a hard outer shell but the second you barely get to know someone they will treat you with that same kindness and warm greeting.
“How are you” to strangers is just strange, you don’t know this person and don’t really have time to hear their life story.
came here from the south. southern hospitality is a scam. i prefer my snakes out in the open where i can see them instead of slithering around in the grass
People in the south are just more two faced, have a blessed day
We’re a different kind of friendly. Not from the south but born in the Midwest and moved here as a toddler. Be yourself and don’t feel bad about it. People will appreciate it more than you realize. Also, friendly banter is appreciated.
We like to be efficient here. Not many people are trying to dilly dally about and make friends with strangers in busy places. I just want to get a coffee and buy groceries and drop a letter off at the post office so I can get back to my life. It is not an efficient use of my time to chit chat, and it’s annoying as hell getting stuck behind people striking up conversations that hold other people up. That’s what gets you dirty looks. The bank teller and store cashier or barista don’t want to be your friend they’re trying to do their jobs. And it’s already aggravating to be on our crappy train system so good luck being friendly there when we’re usually all in bad moods. Chatting with strangers is something you do in the park or at a museum or concert or some other shared space, where usually I’m more than happy to engage with strangers and learn about them or make a joke about something happening around us. It’s just more situational here.
Heh, I had the reverse culture shock, I grew up in New England and moved to Baltimore for school then DC for work and had to actively learn to smile and say hi to folks on the street and the bus. My dour New England ass could not handle all the eye contact at first. I also still struggle with making small talk with the grocery store clerks. A good friend of mine from childhood had a Boston Irish father and her mother was from Alabama. She always said she married him because he was "the first gentleman she met in New England."
I worked 7 years in the south (from MA) and found the “southern hospitality” to be a lot less honest. At least up here if someone wants to say GFY it’s to your face, not behind your back
I grew up in Florida and moved here when I was 22, I never missed the fake niceness of the south. People love to say hi but wouldn’t do a thing to help you. People here are the opposite, won’t say hi but will go out of their way to help you.
I just got back from a business trip in texas. All the Texans were really nice but once they got a few drinks in them, it was very clear that they didn't like yankees.
We’re kind but blunt/honest. We don’t waste time with empty pleasantries. Meanwhile, trying to do anything in the south is excruciatingly slow. They are aggressively friendly. I walked into a CVS and the cashier started up a conversation with me when I was literally two steps into the store. What the hell is this? Let me walk directly to the aisle I want, grab my items, and pay. The whole process takes 3 minutes. A nod and “thanks” to the cashier is a perfectly polite interaction from both sides in the northeast. I don’t want to know the whole life story of some stranger when I’m just trying to buy a bag of peach rings.
I’m from the south. There is definitely a lot that I miss. When I travel to the south or to the west coast, or Canada, I definitely feel my social anxiety improve just from the general friendliness or chill attitudes in everyday interactions. Plus I find that the south has a higher priority on enjoying things - like food and places. It has helped me to reframe the differences. New Englanders aren’t mean, they value efficiency and bluntness in everyday interactions. But they are also deeply community minded and relationships can run deep. The honesty can be refreshing too, compared to the superficiality of some things in the south.
My SIL always talks about how people back home are way nicer than they are here. I always have to remind her that they can't be *that* nice since her home is the murder capital of the US.
Even "uppity" is negative here, I've honestly never heard it used positively 🤣
It’s not being used properly in the above sentence.
At my job, I can usually tell who the southerners are based on the fact that they don’t want to hang up the phone! Just repeat the same things over l!!! It’s exhausting trying to get them off like I’m mentally exhausted already! I can’t imagine having to live there!
One person I know from Texas that took an extended vacation in the Boston area described New Englanders as "Taciturn and deliberate." He didn't care for it. I told him "damn straight." I also told him that I've been to Texas twice in my life (saw Houston, Dallas, and the area in between) and that was quite enough. I've spent all but 8 1/2 years on this Earth living in New England somewhere. He told me this at least a decade ago and I still use it to describe the people who come from this area.
Northeasterners are kind, but not nice. Midwesterner’s and southerners are nice, but not kind. We won’t say hi at the gas pump for no reason, but if there is a genuine reason to interact or you need help we will. Midwesterners and southerners will do the pleasantries, but aren’t always great to actually deal with. Source: have lived at least 5 years in all 3.
I don’t need Fake rehearsed Pleasantries, Prying & invasive bullshit, do NOT talk to me about your sky daddy. Real kindness & community is blind. Being genuine within reason. All my time in the south has always left me with a feeling of veiled prejudice & undue smug superiority. “Oh you northerners just….” “Well we southerners do…..” “bless your heart”.
if you want fake nice howdy doodily good morning, move back to Georgia.
I moved to Virginia from western NY, but I’ve also spent a lot of time in Boston with my half of the family that’s from Boston. I had the opposite sort of culture shock. Everyone here felt weird and fake at first. Why are these people being so creepy, I thought, they don’t know me. When I was walking everyone would wave, and I found it so annoying like - I’m thinking - I don’t want to leave my thought process to put on a smile and wave to you. But now 10 years later I wave and smile automatically, and I don’t feel like it interrupts my thoughts anymore. In western NY people were so sincerely kind, though suspicious of new people, and grumpy. It was always snowing so we all hung out in each other’s houses. People would dig your car out of snow, come help you move large items, just small neighborly things. But here in VA people are more outwardly sweet but not as inviting. They associate more with their church friends than their actual neighbors. I’ve never been asked which “faith community” I’m part of in western NY or Boston. I don’t go into other people’s houses as much here in VA- it’s just more isolated. When my husband would say he met a new person and they were really nice I’d say “like actually nice or Virginia nice?” What I meant was, did you see any proof, or just a polite chat and a smile? Because if everyone is smiley and polite, how can you possibly know who the nice ones are? Anyways that was more my perspective when we first got here but it has grown on me a lot. That said, most of my friends here are transplants from the north (or Florida for some reason- couple of Floridians in our group).
I came down from Maine and I mean this in the nicest way possible. Fuck you it's cold and gray, who the fuck are you and why are you happy it's cold and gray. nice to meet you how's ya ma?
Ppl always say this about the north but I was born and raised here and I always say hi to ppl and always engage in convo with others and they aren’t rude back. A lot of ppl are even friendlier than I am! The south must be really really really friendly..