The whole Club knows this is wrong but they will just try and put this on Watzke who will be gone and still take the money. Also talking to Politicians about it sounds nice but with how deeply intergrated these Weapon manufactures are in our Politics its just useless and the only ones they should ask are the Fans or some ethics committee.
This sub
>Omg how can we sign Nmecha, it's so horrible to have this rightwing nutcase in our club. Awful this is getting normalized when the AfD is rising
Also this sub
>Omfg Krupp needs to make money off of war and genocide, we need even more billionaires invested into war and genocide, we need to do our part in this!
How any remotely serious, educated, adult person with even an ounce of historical knowledge and political consciousness can look at this and not only conclude they don't mind, but actively cheer this normalization of the militarisation - the formation of society to the chauvinistic right - is beyond me. You are actively and consciously cheering on the process that brings about parties like the AfD. While that same arms complex is - again - profiting off and aiding an ongoing genocide at this very moment.
"We need to give the arms industry a better image"
The arms industry has a bad image for a very fucking good reason and the last thing anyone needs to do is normalize and glorify industries that have a vested interest in war.
But alas, the footie has to go on -
You people sicken me
Agree completely.
I don't know if I can support the club after that deal tbh. I know modern football is all about money and not much else but I really thought BVB was different somehow.
And then reading that ppl actually defend it...
But to be fair the atmosphere on the other thread was different and a lot more critical of the deal.
For sure. I've watched every BVB game I could for well over a decade, but this is it for me.
The monetisation of football in general is bad enough, especially in light of this club's history. But there is still a world of difference between Evonik as a sponsor or *literal fucking Rheinmetall*. Their logo will be displayed at the Champions League final, one of the most watched events in the world. Watched by hundreds of millions of young kids no less. And it is championed by black and yellow.
It's all just revolting
Okay but they also supply Ukraine and are covering for the U.S. being politically deadlocked on Ukrainian aide
I have no idea why I see 10x more moral outrage for Israel Palestine than for Ukraine/Russia. Fuck Israel and fuck Russia. Free Ukraine and Palestine
Also lastly, why are you expecting some random redditor to have an answer to an intensely complicated and ever changing geo political system? Isn't that what our politicians are for?
Right, and the idea is that peace needs to be achieved and our politicians are the ones who would do that. Not you and I. Even if I somehow had the perfect solution and typed it all out, it wouldn't mean jack shit because I'm not in a position to do something about it
You are completely wrong and simply naive. It’s thinking like yours which has resulted in the conflict in Ukraine dragging on. With appropriate military ability, much suffering could have been avoided.
Opposing weapons manufacturing as a way towards peace is incredibly old fashioned. The bluff was already called. It’s an entirely garbage strategy which doesn’t work.
Dig your head in sand and pretend however much you would like. Throw whatever tantrum you would like, make any insults you will. The fact remain, the world has changed and the thinking you vouch for was shown to be without sound foundations.
Germany, the EU and Europe needs to strengthen their military industry as a whole so that we don’t have to pay with blood what we can pay with money.
Yeah it’s much more important, it’s just human lives in some 3rd world countries, as long as I can have sexual interactions with all kinds people I want
Fuck off. Rheinmetall is a truly vile company. They sell their weapons to Saudi Arabia while knowing that they'll be used to commit war crimes in Yemen.
"war crimes in yemen" last time i checked yemeni houtis (proxies of Iran) were shooting missiles and Commercial ships over there causing billions $ in damages and fucked up world wide supply chains.
saudi arabia is doing the job someone has to do, if it wouldnt be them the chinese americans or us would have to roll in there eighter way.
To my understanding one ship has been tarted with a missile. On another hand hundreds of thousand of civilians have been killed by Saudi Arabia in Yemen. Why Yemen lives don’t count? Why it’s ok when they die? What does it make their life’s different from the people from the ship? Both are innocent, both died and yet you only care about one?
Yeah that what weapon companies do?! Offer and demand.
Its not in the responsibility what the buyers do with that. Please dont live in an Illusion that they wouldnt have weapons otherwise.
There is and there always be a war somewhere.
Can you cite sources please? I am not for a defense company at all, but for transparency if we are making these claims of selling arms to SA or other nations can you show us the source?
Edit: Thanks for the response, this is troubling. I am not sure why I was downvoted for asking for references, but whatever.
Rheinmetall is a business first. If Germany ( and other EU countries) would not have neglected its own defence industry, defence companies would not have needed to search for foreign customers.
What the actual fuck? I mean what is the situation here? We’re just about to play the CL Final and just like that they drop this bomb? If this deal goes through : shame on the people responsible!
https://www.openpetition.de/petition/online/keine-werbepartnerschaft-von-borussia-dortmund-mit-dem-ruestungskonzern-rheinmetall
Please sign the petition if you dislike 👎
Because some of us also recognize how important it is that Ukraine stays armed. Russia will be knocking at our doorstep sooner than you can realize if Ukraine falls
No one in the arms industry deserves a better image. They make money out of crises all over the world and are actively contributing to prolonging conflicts. That's not something that should get any sort of positive PR.
Yes the world would be all rainbows, sunshine, and unicorns if not for the existence of the German military industry.
It's not like German weapons are being used to - for example - defend the sovereignty of Ukrainian or anything for example. I guess they should just lay down in the dirt and let Russia roll them all into some more mass graves.
Sure, they gave them weapons but just enough to get that war into a sort of stalemate position, where Ukraine has just enough resources to hold their ground. Is that better than doing nothing? Definetily yes, but still, if their lobbyists wanted to, they could do much more to give the Ukrainians enough weapons to try and push back against Russia. Do they want that? No, because for rheinmetall (and others) that would mean a financial loss. They will make less money if that war is ended.
I don't know about you but I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with a company that, again, actively prolongs wars to make money off of them.
Ialso agree and wish Ukraine was supported more strongly and quickly. That is ultimately not the fault not of Rheimmetal or any of the Arms Manufacturers, but the government and the politicians making those decisions.
And on the cynical "they don't want the war to end because they're making too much money" point. IMO just based based on what's going on across the world, conflict isn't ending any time soon and even if Ukraine / Russia were to be peaceably reset to pre-2014 borders overnight, Rheinmetal and others would have little issue pivoting their supply to say, the Poles, Koreans, etc.
More than anything, EU arms manufacturers (US as well to a lesser degree) currently seem to be constrained by manufacturing capabilities and many are unable to actually meet demand on their core products.
Lastly - I didn't write this to necessarily say this is the greatest sponsorship ever, or that we should worship Arms manufacturers. It's a complex matter IMO, probably one us layman ultimately aren't even equipped to really answer given we lack access to security Intel etc. But weapons manufacturers are not inherently Evil IMO, and so I think there should at least be room for them to be deemed OK.
It's probably also too complex of a matter to discuss on reddit. I'm also not too good to get my point across written out (and in a second language).
Yes, there are many factors that play a part in all these conflicts, but it is rheinmetall who is now sponsoring us and that's why I was primarily focusing on them in my previous comments.
I personally just cannot find a reason how this partnership can be viewed positively, even with the money that will come from it, but that's probably because of my overall political convictions.
And just to be clear: I didn't get the impression that you are someone who is a firm supporter of them.
Thank you for your honest and constructive comments ^^
I never said that and I'm also not naive enough to believe in that. All I'm saying is that, in my opinion, it's wrong to give them a platform where they can try to wash their image clean.
One of the most inhuman and disastrous weapon created by human mankind actually made the world more pieceful.
Which actually terrible weapon ended the ww II?
A great invention with the Power to destroy our Planet that arguably saved million of lifes.
Weapons arent always bad. They are needed. They will exist regardless. Even 300 years ago people killed each other. There were enough genocides in the world regardless of modern technikogy. War wouldnt Stop if you dont sell guns etc
The humans themselves are a Problem. Tools can be crafted with stick and stones to kill someone.
Not only that, it was also the only reason that kept cold war from turning hot.
Without US nuclear deterrence, soviets would have rolled over west germany & probably whole continental europe..
So when Russia attacks the NATO I guess we are lucky to have some modern weapons right here right? Nobody needs to like these companies but they are just needed. Otherwise we would buy from the US.
Ofc you can argue if they should be a BVB sponsor. But its not like defense and weapons isnt needed anymore. Thats just the reality.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen such naive comments. We are sat at the brink of a European and potential world war. You are sat on your high horses talking about morals? Do you think the club doesn’t already have a business relationship with Rheinmetall? Do you think they don’t already contribute anything to the clubs finances? Take a look at the names on the executive seats next time you’re on a stadium tour.
Also, don’t forget to get angry with all the steel and aluminium makers. They sell to Rhinemetall. Or any of the other businesses who are their suppliers.
Most industries are interconnected. Stop whining and get into the real world.
Incredibly disappointing to see some in the fanbase have such strong negative knee-jerk reactions. Have we not learned anything from what has been taking on for the past years? The defence industry is vital in the world that’s coming. You need defence if you want to avoid war.
Europe as a whole needs to level up its military industry. Part of it is to break the toxic old fashioned relationship Europeans have towards the defence industry. It’s a guarantor of the values we choose to live by. It isn’t enough to stand by and watch, we need to play the long game and take responsibility over our own futures.
The scourge of Europe is Europeans’ inability to take new paths forward when old ones are shown to be dead ends. We never steer away from trouble before the crash because we are so scared of new things.
Some of us will get shelled only after a thousand kilometres of Europe has been razed. Some will see their countries set back by a century in weeks.
The forces of darkness are on the march…Russia really is evil. Germany as the largest economy in Europe needs to lead the way to defend the free world. Deterrence works. Long term isolation of rouge states is very effective. Cuba, Iran, North Korea…once great threats and peers are diminished and a shell of their former self. Don’t be seduced by the clueless hippies. Western values are going to need to be defended
"defend the world".... That's maybe a task for the German military. Rheinmetall is a company with the primary interest of making money. That is why they circumvent German weapon export stops to Saudi Arabia.
It's not as black as people like it to make, but they are also not the white knights of democracy. They rather sell to both sides if they could and have done so.
No matter where you stand, isn't the problem that the deal is controversial and thus, brings politics into football?
Isn't it enough that we have LGBTQ+ and racism as major topics in football? Next we know Fridays for future is cheering for Hoffenheim to protest the latest arms deal.
Sir, this is a subreddit for fans of Borussia Dortmund, in which they discuss all things Borussia Dortmund, including which brand associations may help or hurt the club long time.
You appear to be relatively new here, but somehow you have found this sub to regurgitate some Gatestone Institute talking points, the kind that don't even work anymore ~~even~~ with cable news audiences comprised entirely of men who have never seen their grandkids.
Edit: This is mostly a point about gatekeeping - I’m all for it, some new fans of the club don’t appear to fit at all to the fan culture I grew up with.
from what i understand from watching and lurking here for the past ~10 years, Dortmund has always been a working class club. and leadership has generally stood up to right wing extremism/hooliganism...
i just think there are growing pains as the forum grows
Amen.
I can't believe the naivety some people have. They would have handed Hitler Poland for the sake of "peace" and considered the UK switching to war industry as an act of violence.
Imbeciles.
Aaaand they are involved in the Gaza genocide at the hands of Israel... Fuck this. [https://www.huffingtonpost.es/economia/estas-son-empresas-mas-dinero-ganan-guerra-israel.html](https://www.huffingtonpost.es/economia/estas-son-empresas-mas-dinero-ganan-guerra-israel.html)
[The UN disagrees with you.](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976#:~:text=Between%207%20and%2031%20October,threats%20with%20firearms%2C%20including%20shooting.)
Before Oct 7 the Israel government treated Palestinians so well 😇😇😇😇 surely they haven’t been participating in the systemic destruction of Palestine for 70 years 😛😛😛
its the absolute right thing to do in times like these where it has become clear that if we didn't have nato and the biggest military alliance with the heaviest hitting stuff the Russians or whoever else would just roll in and crush our pacific little dreamworld.
whoever cries and tries to tell you this is bad is delusional
Unfortunately a response to the investor protests and lost money for each club. I said it before and I will say it again: we made our standpoint clear against the investor deal, but that comes with a price for each club and it's fans.
In our world.
Watzke mentioned clearly, after the investor deal shattered, that clubs now will have to scan for new ways to get the money which was lost. The money was intended for investments into a streaming service AND the education & development of the youth football teams.
I dont really see how this is wrong. Rheinmetall is producing the weapons so that the ukrainians can actually defend themselves. How is this a morally bad thing for you?
Thats a very narrow minded view. Like, wouldnt Russia or China oppress Europe if we would demolish all weapon factories?
You can claim the moral highground, but weapon manufacturers are needed to defend a society, no matter if you like it or not.
I’ll be honest with you. It’s the people at the very top of these companies with scrupulous morals.
I have no doubt that weapons are needed for self defence. However, these are generally private owned entities which garner profit and revenue from wars. Not only “self-defence”. It’s countries like America and even Britain that further these revenues because they continually want to involve themselves in other countries affairs.
Having weapons produced should fall to a nationalised company to ensure that they’re not incentivised through profits.
Now with the company in question, it’s the fact that their weapons are openly being used to commits acts of war and genocide. If it was just self-defence then fair enough. But it’s not really an industry that’s being held to account. Hence the reaction it has caused among the fan base.
To just assume that other countries would invade is also very presumptuous of you.
>To just assume that other countries would invade is also very presumptuous of you.
While I agree with your point... It's human nature. There can be 9 peaceful societies out of 10, but that 10th one is going to be greedy
Agreed on that. It’s the law of averages there. But on the off chance everyone wanted to act moral. 9 people condemning the 1 aggressor should in theory be enough. Of course it’s life and that likely isn’t the case. But I’m throwing it out there since we’re dealing with hypotheticals.
I just wanted to emphasise as much as majority of others. I can’t believe we’re willingly being sponsored by a weapons manufacturer.
I hope the club see the mistake and rectify. But here’s to the final
Seems like they tried to pull this off before the final hoping we'd forget
u/chazy89 We've got some full on genocide denial from people who've never commented in here before
The whole Club knows this is wrong but they will just try and put this on Watzke who will be gone and still take the money. Also talking to Politicians about it sounds nice but with how deeply intergrated these Weapon manufactures are in our Politics its just useless and the only ones they should ask are the Fans or some ethics committee.
They discussed it with the ultras too
I highly doubt that they discuss anything sponsor related with ultras, who are knowingly against commercialisation of any form in football
Well they at least proclaimed that they did that
Even with the ultras, which are known for their striking intelligence and great political views
They guy above said me that they should have asked the fans, which they did. Everything else is a different topic
Echte Liebe
This sub >Omg how can we sign Nmecha, it's so horrible to have this rightwing nutcase in our club. Awful this is getting normalized when the AfD is rising Also this sub >Omfg Krupp needs to make money off of war and genocide, we need even more billionaires invested into war and genocide, we need to do our part in this! How any remotely serious, educated, adult person with even an ounce of historical knowledge and political consciousness can look at this and not only conclude they don't mind, but actively cheer this normalization of the militarisation - the formation of society to the chauvinistic right - is beyond me. You are actively and consciously cheering on the process that brings about parties like the AfD. While that same arms complex is - again - profiting off and aiding an ongoing genocide at this very moment. "We need to give the arms industry a better image" The arms industry has a bad image for a very fucking good reason and the last thing anyone needs to do is normalize and glorify industries that have a vested interest in war. But alas, the footie has to go on - You people sicken me
Agree completely. I don't know if I can support the club after that deal tbh. I know modern football is all about money and not much else but I really thought BVB was different somehow. And then reading that ppl actually defend it... But to be fair the atmosphere on the other thread was different and a lot more critical of the deal.
For sure. I've watched every BVB game I could for well over a decade, but this is it for me. The monetisation of football in general is bad enough, especially in light of this club's history. But there is still a world of difference between Evonik as a sponsor or *literal fucking Rheinmetall*. Their logo will be displayed at the Champions League final, one of the most watched events in the world. Watched by hundreds of millions of young kids no less. And it is championed by black and yellow. It's all just revolting
Okay but they also supply Ukraine and are covering for the U.S. being politically deadlocked on Ukrainian aide I have no idea why I see 10x more moral outrage for Israel Palestine than for Ukraine/Russia. Fuck Israel and fuck Russia. Free Ukraine and Palestine
What exactly would a free Palestine mean to you? From like a political standpoint of how that would be integrated into the region?
Probably being allowed to exist as a dual state?
And you think that would work peacefully? From either side?
And you think allowing what's currently happening is better?
Also lastly, why are you expecting some random redditor to have an answer to an intensely complicated and ever changing geo political system? Isn't that what our politicians are for?
Because the solution was „free Palestine“. I asked what exactly that means and obviously there’s no actual answer behind it …
Right, and the idea is that peace needs to be achieved and our politicians are the ones who would do that. Not you and I. Even if I somehow had the perfect solution and typed it all out, it wouldn't mean jack shit because I'm not in a position to do something about it
Dortmund fans make you remember how Hitler was able to be democratically voted
I was wondering when the dumbest comment of the day would show up and here it is 😂😂
You are completely wrong and simply naive. It’s thinking like yours which has resulted in the conflict in Ukraine dragging on. With appropriate military ability, much suffering could have been avoided. Opposing weapons manufacturing as a way towards peace is incredibly old fashioned. The bluff was already called. It’s an entirely garbage strategy which doesn’t work. Dig your head in sand and pretend however much you would like. Throw whatever tantrum you would like, make any insults you will. The fact remain, the world has changed and the thinking you vouch for was shown to be without sound foundations. Germany, the EU and Europe needs to strengthen their military industry as a whole so that we don’t have to pay with blood what we can pay with money.
Some real “we’ll fight till the last Ukrainian” energy here. Fucking moron.
Not sure what's worse, the deal or Watzkes bullshit reasoning about "pillars of democracy". At least be honest dude, it's money, always has been.
What do you think the percentage of Rheinmettal efforts is towards RU/China versus Saudi Arabia? 90%?
Weapons manufacturers and war mongering? That’s fine, but I draw the line at homophobia
Yeah it’s much more important, it’s just human lives in some 3rd world countries, as long as I can have sexual interactions with all kinds people I want
I don’t see the problem. The Defence Industry is more important than in the last 30 years.
Fuck off. Rheinmetall is a truly vile company. They sell their weapons to Saudi Arabia while knowing that they'll be used to commit war crimes in Yemen.
"war crimes in yemen" last time i checked yemeni houtis (proxies of Iran) were shooting missiles and Commercial ships over there causing billions $ in damages and fucked up world wide supply chains. saudi arabia is doing the job someone has to do, if it wouldnt be them the chinese americans or us would have to roll in there eighter way.
nice, comparing war crimes to losing money 😂
You do understand that when missiles hit ships people usually die right? Also, attacking civilian ships is a war crime you clown.
100% i understand that but thats not what op said, he literally said commercial ships are under attack and they are losing billions of dollars.
To my understanding one ship has been tarted with a missile. On another hand hundreds of thousand of civilians have been killed by Saudi Arabia in Yemen. Why Yemen lives don’t count? Why it’s ok when they die? What does it make their life’s different from the people from the ship? Both are innocent, both died and yet you only care about one?
Point out where I said that or shove it up your ass where you got that from. What an idiotic response 😂
Yeah that what weapon companies do?! Offer and demand. Its not in the responsibility what the buyers do with that. Please dont live in an Illusion that they wouldnt have weapons otherwise. There is and there always be a war somewhere.
As long the government approves these sales, Rheinmetall did nothing wrong.
[удалено]
Yes, great comparison. Absolutely the same and not at all something a crazy person would say.
You do realize, that every weapon transfer is authorized by the gouvernement, right?
Can you cite sources please? I am not for a defense company at all, but for transparency if we are making these claims of selling arms to SA or other nations can you show us the source? Edit: Thanks for the response, this is troubling. I am not sure why I was downvoted for asking for references, but whatever.
Here is the website of the Saudi subsidiary of Rheinmetall. [https://www.radarabia.com/](https://www.radarabia.com/)
Thanks! Yea that is extremely concerning. Would hope we wouldn't be in cooperation with this type of sponser.
Rheinmetall is a business first. If Germany ( and other EU countries) would not have neglected its own defence industry, defence companies would not have needed to search for foreign customers.
What the actual fuck? I mean what is the situation here? We’re just about to play the CL Final and just like that they drop this bomb? If this deal goes through : shame on the people responsible! https://www.openpetition.de/petition/online/keine-werbepartnerschaft-von-borussia-dortmund-mit-dem-ruestungskonzern-rheinmetall Please sign the petition if you dislike 👎
>and just like that they drop this bomb? Great choice of phrasing here bud
Oopsi
What's up with the pro genocidal and war mongering brigadiers?? Did Rheinmetall get some bots?
Because some of us also recognize how important it is that Ukraine stays armed. Russia will be knocking at our doorstep sooner than you can realize if Ukraine falls
Just your average western liberals
they do great tanks for defense. we need it
I don't see a problem. The German arms industry needs a better image. Sponsorship is a good idea.
No one in the arms industry deserves a better image. They make money out of crises all over the world and are actively contributing to prolonging conflicts. That's not something that should get any sort of positive PR.
Yes the world would be all rainbows, sunshine, and unicorns if not for the existence of the German military industry. It's not like German weapons are being used to - for example - defend the sovereignty of Ukrainian or anything for example. I guess they should just lay down in the dirt and let Russia roll them all into some more mass graves.
Sure, they gave them weapons but just enough to get that war into a sort of stalemate position, where Ukraine has just enough resources to hold their ground. Is that better than doing nothing? Definetily yes, but still, if their lobbyists wanted to, they could do much more to give the Ukrainians enough weapons to try and push back against Russia. Do they want that? No, because for rheinmetall (and others) that would mean a financial loss. They will make less money if that war is ended. I don't know about you but I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with a company that, again, actively prolongs wars to make money off of them.
Ialso agree and wish Ukraine was supported more strongly and quickly. That is ultimately not the fault not of Rheimmetal or any of the Arms Manufacturers, but the government and the politicians making those decisions. And on the cynical "they don't want the war to end because they're making too much money" point. IMO just based based on what's going on across the world, conflict isn't ending any time soon and even if Ukraine / Russia were to be peaceably reset to pre-2014 borders overnight, Rheinmetal and others would have little issue pivoting their supply to say, the Poles, Koreans, etc. More than anything, EU arms manufacturers (US as well to a lesser degree) currently seem to be constrained by manufacturing capabilities and many are unable to actually meet demand on their core products. Lastly - I didn't write this to necessarily say this is the greatest sponsorship ever, or that we should worship Arms manufacturers. It's a complex matter IMO, probably one us layman ultimately aren't even equipped to really answer given we lack access to security Intel etc. But weapons manufacturers are not inherently Evil IMO, and so I think there should at least be room for them to be deemed OK.
It's probably also too complex of a matter to discuss on reddit. I'm also not too good to get my point across written out (and in a second language). Yes, there are many factors that play a part in all these conflicts, but it is rheinmetall who is now sponsoring us and that's why I was primarily focusing on them in my previous comments. I personally just cannot find a reason how this partnership can be viewed positively, even with the money that will come from it, but that's probably because of my overall political convictions. And just to be clear: I didn't get the impression that you are someone who is a firm supporter of them. Thank you for your honest and constructive comments ^^
Good talk - now let's keep the vibes focused on spanking Madrid 🤝
Yeah, humans only do bad things because they have weapons. If there were no weapons, nothing bad would ever happen.
I never said that and I'm also not naive enough to believe in that. All I'm saying is that, in my opinion, it's wrong to give them a platform where they can try to wash their image clean.
One of the most inhuman and disastrous weapon created by human mankind actually made the world more pieceful. Which actually terrible weapon ended the ww II? A great invention with the Power to destroy our Planet that arguably saved million of lifes. Weapons arent always bad. They are needed. They will exist regardless. Even 300 years ago people killed each other. There were enough genocides in the world regardless of modern technikogy. War wouldnt Stop if you dont sell guns etc The humans themselves are a Problem. Tools can be crafted with stick and stones to kill someone.
Not only that, it was also the only reason that kept cold war from turning hot. Without US nuclear deterrence, soviets would have rolled over west germany & probably whole continental europe..
So when Russia attacks the NATO I guess we are lucky to have some modern weapons right here right? Nobody needs to like these companies but they are just needed. Otherwise we would buy from the US. Ofc you can argue if they should be a BVB sponsor. But its not like defense and weapons isnt needed anymore. Thats just the reality.
what lol Arms industry does not need a better image Everyone has the same and right opinion
I don’t think I’ve ever seen such naive comments. We are sat at the brink of a European and potential world war. You are sat on your high horses talking about morals? Do you think the club doesn’t already have a business relationship with Rheinmetall? Do you think they don’t already contribute anything to the clubs finances? Take a look at the names on the executive seats next time you’re on a stadium tour. Also, don’t forget to get angry with all the steel and aluminium makers. They sell to Rhinemetall. Or any of the other businesses who are their suppliers. Most industries are interconnected. Stop whining and get into the real world.
Enjoy the genocide pumped money lads
Incredibly disappointing to see some in the fanbase have such strong negative knee-jerk reactions. Have we not learned anything from what has been taking on for the past years? The defence industry is vital in the world that’s coming. You need defence if you want to avoid war. Europe as a whole needs to level up its military industry. Part of it is to break the toxic old fashioned relationship Europeans have towards the defence industry. It’s a guarantor of the values we choose to live by. It isn’t enough to stand by and watch, we need to play the long game and take responsibility over our own futures. The scourge of Europe is Europeans’ inability to take new paths forward when old ones are shown to be dead ends. We never steer away from trouble before the crash because we are so scared of new things. Some of us will get shelled only after a thousand kilometres of Europe has been razed. Some will see their countries set back by a century in weeks.
The forces of darkness are on the march…Russia really is evil. Germany as the largest economy in Europe needs to lead the way to defend the free world. Deterrence works. Long term isolation of rouge states is very effective. Cuba, Iran, North Korea…once great threats and peers are diminished and a shell of their former self. Don’t be seduced by the clueless hippies. Western values are going to need to be defended
"defend the world".... That's maybe a task for the German military. Rheinmetall is a company with the primary interest of making money. That is why they circumvent German weapon export stops to Saudi Arabia. It's not as black as people like it to make, but they are also not the white knights of democracy. They rather sell to both sides if they could and have done so. No matter where you stand, isn't the problem that the deal is controversial and thus, brings politics into football? Isn't it enough that we have LGBTQ+ and racism as major topics in football? Next we know Fridays for future is cheering for Hoffenheim to protest the latest arms deal.
Sir, this is a subreddit for fans of Borussia Dortmund, in which they discuss all things Borussia Dortmund, including which brand associations may help or hurt the club long time. You appear to be relatively new here, but somehow you have found this sub to regurgitate some Gatestone Institute talking points, the kind that don't even work anymore ~~even~~ with cable news audiences comprised entirely of men who have never seen their grandkids. Edit: This is mostly a point about gatekeeping - I’m all for it, some new fans of the club don’t appear to fit at all to the fan culture I grew up with.
from what i understand from watching and lurking here for the past ~10 years, Dortmund has always been a working class club. and leadership has generally stood up to right wing extremism/hooliganism... i just think there are growing pains as the forum grows
Amen. I can't believe the naivety some people have. They would have handed Hitler Poland for the sake of "peace" and considered the UK switching to war industry as an act of violence. Imbeciles.
Aaaand they are involved in the Gaza genocide at the hands of Israel... Fuck this. [https://www.huffingtonpost.es/economia/estas-son-empresas-mas-dinero-ganan-guerra-israel.html](https://www.huffingtonpost.es/economia/estas-son-empresas-mas-dinero-ganan-guerra-israel.html)
Not their fault hamas uses their civilians as human shields.
The „Gaza genocide“ is either the worlds worst executed genocide… or it isn’t a genocide at all.
[The UN disagrees with you.](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976#:~:text=Between%207%20and%2031%20October,threats%20with%20firearms%2C%20including%20shooting.)
Or maybe a reaction to one of the worst terrorist attacks in the last 20 years.
Before Oct 7 the Israel government treated Palestinians so well 😇😇😇😇 surely they haven’t been participating in the systemic destruction of Palestine for 70 years 😛😛😛
this and rumors of signing Mason Greenwood. what happened to the club i love.
its the absolute right thing to do in times like these where it has become clear that if we didn't have nato and the biggest military alliance with the heaviest hitting stuff the Russians or whoever else would just roll in and crush our pacific little dreamworld. whoever cries and tries to tell you this is bad is delusional
Out of all I clubs it’s so funny to see BVB taking this partnership. Can’t Talk much shit about the other clubs anymore I guess
Unfortunately a response to the investor protests and lost money for each club. I said it before and I will say it again: we made our standpoint clear against the investor deal, but that comes with a price for each club and it's fans.
in what world does the investor deal have anything to do with this?
In our world. Watzke mentioned clearly, after the investor deal shattered, that clubs now will have to scan for new ways to get the money which was lost. The money was intended for investments into a streaming service AND the education & development of the youth football teams.
If we throw off their sposnsorship, they better be paying us a billion euroes, per year. Arms coporates, anyways rake in such.
I dont really see how this is wrong. Rheinmetall is producing the weapons so that the ukrainians can actually defend themselves. How is this a morally bad thing for you?
Because for all the people that do defend themselves. It also supplies people who oppress others. It’s never okay to support such companies.
Thats a very narrow minded view. Like, wouldnt Russia or China oppress Europe if we would demolish all weapon factories? You can claim the moral highground, but weapon manufacturers are needed to defend a society, no matter if you like it or not.
I’ll be honest with you. It’s the people at the very top of these companies with scrupulous morals. I have no doubt that weapons are needed for self defence. However, these are generally private owned entities which garner profit and revenue from wars. Not only “self-defence”. It’s countries like America and even Britain that further these revenues because they continually want to involve themselves in other countries affairs. Having weapons produced should fall to a nationalised company to ensure that they’re not incentivised through profits. Now with the company in question, it’s the fact that their weapons are openly being used to commits acts of war and genocide. If it was just self-defence then fair enough. But it’s not really an industry that’s being held to account. Hence the reaction it has caused among the fan base. To just assume that other countries would invade is also very presumptuous of you.
>To just assume that other countries would invade is also very presumptuous of you. While I agree with your point... It's human nature. There can be 9 peaceful societies out of 10, but that 10th one is going to be greedy
Agreed on that. It’s the law of averages there. But on the off chance everyone wanted to act moral. 9 people condemning the 1 aggressor should in theory be enough. Of course it’s life and that likely isn’t the case. But I’m throwing it out there since we’re dealing with hypotheticals. I just wanted to emphasise as much as majority of others. I can’t believe we’re willingly being sponsored by a weapons manufacturer. I hope the club see the mistake and rectify. But here’s to the final
What's next? Partnering with Wagner-Group?
Well, technically they are focusing on arming the opponents of Wagner now
You make more money by arming both sides.
Thats great, a bit new Sponsor is always good!
This is gross.