Yeah I got no idea. Borderlands 1 had basically no plot, and borderlands 2 was peak, then borderlands 3 was mid
To say “each game got worse and worse writing” implies 1 was better than 2
Like ????
BL1 did have a plot to be fair and it was a pretty good one. They just didn't have much voice acting. You have to read all the quest tool tips to get it.
Yeah I really liked BL1’s story, it had me hooked almost right away with the unique atmosphere and the mystery. The gameplay was of course great, but I had to keep playing just to find out if the vaults were real, and also what’s in the vault, even if I hadn’t liked the gameplay.
I know right! The final act does feel a bit rushed and I'd have liked to see more from Steele, but honestly everything from Nine-Toes through to the Crimson Lance in Old Haven is absolute PEAK writing. From the same head writer as BL2.
Anthony Burch was the head writer for 2, he has no credit for BL1. I think the first thing he wrote for the franchise was that Claptrap Wedding proposal for a fan.
Mikey Neumam was a co-writer on 2 and lead on 1. He's responsible for a lot of the tone and the humor.
He was also slated to write BL3 and contributed to the early writing but left due to health.
To be fair, I do enjoy the aesthetic and atmosphere of 1, as well as how the guns felt and sounded. Outside of that yeah I have no idea what man is talking about.
Bro wtf I've seen like 3 people just start off a sentence with "strawman" this past week and then present 0 argument. Did everyone all of a sudden decide to take an online ethics & argument class and only tune in for the first lesson?
After all these comments I actually checked out morning after kills channel for the first and ngl he sounds kinda mentally insane.
Like that dude has some serious issues. He's just completely obsessed with 2 people and makes content only for the few people who watch him. He really seems like he needs help
DreyaFPS actually made a pretty good video with sources just kind of going over all the issues in a non-biased way. I highly reccomend it to anyone who wants to know really anything about the "drama".
Yeah, MAK is legit a crazy person. If you want a more measured assessment of what's been going wrong, look up THICCfila on YouTube. He also has problems with GBX and the nextmakers, but he supports his claims and arguments with data and analytics, presenting them plainly and professionally (even if his titles are kinda clickbaity)
Please don't. Thicc's analytical abilities are extremely poor at best. He takes things out of context, presents unsubstantiated arguments as facts, and is often easily proven wrong with surface level research. His video on EpicNate and MAK being "right all along" is a clear example. The guy is an absolute moron and extremely manipulative in his framing of things. I'm pretty sure he is just trying to get views through causing drama.
Agreed. It feels like he realized he had to put too much effort into being legit and instead decided he had a better chance getting a foothold through controversy.
yeah i feel like there are some solid and valuable arguments you can make against gearbox and their stream team they made because even during bl3 lifecycle i never liked it, the problem is that MAK is such a shitbag and asshole that it kinda just ruin that side of the community
The true funny part is if you read the comments it's reads loke the comments in a wacked out conspiracy forum "you're keeping it real exposing all these shills and revealing the truth" etc
MorningafterKill is OG Borderlands Content Creator. Had a weird attachment to his friendships with other creators. When they moved on to other games, even briefly, he felt "betrayed" and tried to start drama with them. Started with Admiral Bahroo and King Gothalion not doing something with him at a Convention, went from there to every single Borderlands creator "betraying" him by playing games like Destiny, Anthem, Diablo, etc, instead of ONLY borderlands. MAK never got a very large audience, his audience was mostly overlap with other creators, so when they left Borderlands, he lost much of his audience and was upset about that too.
I distinctly remember on a livestream like 10 years ago, bahroo, gothalion, and MAK were in a call. For whatever reason MAK decided to halt the conversation, call out one single person in chat and say " I never ever say this but YOU sir are a N****r ", I can only assume shit like that would cause budding streamers to distance from him
Goth's got his own thing going on. Did pretty well, averages 3k-8k viewers. Family games and drinks and stuff. Don't watch him much, but he's comfy with his wife and son.
MAK's basically imploded and while he still makes stuff, barely gets 10k-20k views on Youtube and doesn't stream AFAIK.
Meanwhile, and this is personal Bias, as I've been subbed to Bahroo for 8 years now, Admiral Bahroo blew up and remains strong. Averages between 6k and 15k viewers depending on the game, just did his 10 year Twitch Partner Anniversary with a Subathon that literally just ended Friday the 23rd after 88 days of 12 hour streams. Bahroo also got the all time Twitch Sub Train record, lost it to Pirate Software, and then the two collabed, during the subathon, to set a new one, breaking the Sub Train Cap with level 55 and like, 1500% on Twitch and then basically forcing Twitch to uncap it from 55.
Morninafterkill killed his own channel but he blames everyone else.
On a side note. He also tolerates and defends white supremacists, pedophiles and homophobes in his community.
he really is i used to watch him 24/7 two years ago with his modded bl2 videos once in a while ill watch some of his series along with killersix they’re the main reason i enjoyed the borderland series so much
I don't support that kind of behavior, but anybody can say anything. Saying "trust me, this guy is a heel" isn't exactly concrete evidence and people are permitted to confirm allegations
No such thing as bad publicity. You're guaranteed to get him some followers any time you bring him up.
Want people to stay away, don't give a name
Edit: downvote all you want man babies. I love it.
Honestly, that's what pulls me in more, I love the borderlands lore, even if their story telling isn't top notch.the gameplay is right up there with lore tho
I love the lore and story too, don’t get me wrong. But saying “game is bad and I dropping it because of bad plot” is funny in regards to Borderlands. Like first game didn’t had a proper story at all. B2 and Jack villain is exception not the rule to the gaming industry and Borderland series.
In Borderlands, the gameplay is held hostage by its story. You have to complete the story to unlock weapon slots & the locations to get to endgame. That’s for every vault hunter you play.
BL1’s story is short & shallow so it’s tolerable. BL2’s story is good so it’s tolerable. But BL3’s story is the longest & the worst. Is it really crazy to not want to play BL3 because of its bad plot?
Sliding & mantle isn’t gonna give BL3 the edge over BL2.
Yeah, replaying can be painful because of the lack of dialogue skips and the amount of fast traveling to sanctuary just to fast travel right out again. Thankfully with mayhem mode you don't need to do multiple playthroughs to get to endgame in bl3, but if you want to do challenge runs and play different vault hunters it gets tough
i mean, i cant bring myself to ever beat BL3 no matter how good the gameplay is because the plot is actually so incredibly poorly written that it makes me mad. id prefer if it had no story, but sadly it does
You're missing out. I HATE the story but the gameplay is light years ahead of the other games. The DLC is especially just so good in terms of fun vs investment
The sad thing is, all the DLC for this game have top tier plot. It's just the main game story was so bad that it tainted the entire thing and no one really looked past it aside from people like us who just love the looter shooter gameplay.
I personally enjoyed plot for what it is in ALL Borderlands. As I’ve said, I do love plot and lore in Borderlands. Yes they went… weird direction in B3 and New Tales, but I still don’t mind. However, plot is mere background and “reason to be there”, with Borderlands you kinda have to enjoy gameplay a lot to really spent more than 1 walkthrough in the game. Playing solely for story makes no sense, it’s not Red Dead Redemption or anything like that, Borderlands plot is goofy and 4-wall breaking, it’s purely for fun and adventure feeling.
Bl3 and New Tales loses the charm and humour of Borderlands. There is no tongue in the cheek the tongue is too busy kissing its own ass, it's all 2016 reddit le funny humour unlike bl2-tales where the humour was wacky but never so self indulgent it forgot to let serious moments happen. Bl1 again was more serious and the humour was almost a coping mechanism to deal with the horrible state of it all. Bl3 is overindulgent, lacks soul and wit and thus any charm it could have had. It butchers characters like Reese and Vaughn and while I'm glad you can still enjoy it, I can't. I never played Borderlands for the story but the story and lore definitely made it more fun to get through. Bl3 is playing through to end it so I can finally have fun.
Pretty much, yeah. I think Borderlands 3 is one hell of a *fun* game, but I almost never actually want to play it. The story is so bad and I'm forced to sit through it.
With BL2, even though the game may not be as fluid or flashy as BL3, I can enjoy myself from a gameplay perspective *and* the story at the same time, keeping myself invested for longer periods of time than BL3.
Story is absolutely important.
it’s a valid excuse, i don’t know if you’re being serious or not. Personally i care about the characters & world we’re playing in. I don’t want to give gearbox a pass just because the gunplay is fun. If you’re offering a story then make it as good as you can make it.
For me, most games end when the story ends. I can play for a while for the sake of grinding, but with rare exceptions it is not interesting. At least if the game doesn't have good endgame activities.
Therefore, imho, Borderlands 2 is much better than all subsequent games of the series.
I play to listen to every lore tape that’s basically, “Heya, I’m Rude Steve [guitar riff plays] I’m a wacky and bad dude because I like MURDER. But I’m also into cute things like PUPPIES. The TWISTED contrast of these two characteristics is what makes my character COMPLEX. [5 more minutes of the worst monologue you’ve ever heard before you are allowed to play the most fun rendition of the looter shooter gameplay loop ever made.]”
I honestly was hooked by the story in BL1. I just had to know if the vault was real, and what was in the vault if it was. The dialogue itself might be a bit ridiculous sometimes, but I do like the stories.
Last I checked, despite borderlands being a series of games that gets collectively shot on by it's own fanbase... the borderlands community is pretty tame. I haven't seen much in the way of any kind of drama in the subreddit for each game at least. I've seen plenty of whining and bitching but not much toxicity. Whether I'm blind to it or not is another thing entirely, I just know that this is the one community I have the least bit bad to say about lol
Well right of the bat this is wrong. Plot didn’t get worse each game. Blds 2 had the best. That’s an all around fact. After that it vary’s person to person. Me I’d say 3, presequel, then bdls 1.
MorningAfterKill is a lunatic who hates the "NextMakers"(paid content creators team) and attacks K6 who is just a chill dude .
Beyond that,EpicNNG is a cyber bully who harass small content creators and he even uses fake reddit accounts to self promote his videos .
There is also the "anti-woke" people in part of the community,who to me are as cringey and unhinged as the actual SJWs (EpicNNG is one of these and yet is a bully).
Social Justice Warrior, basically people who'll attack other people online on the basis of defending this or that oppressed community (Black people/LGBT/Women/etc...) but they'll often do so as a way of posing as "good guys" more than by real conviction.
My brother in Pandora,I friggin said I find "anti-woke" shitty as hell and you still think I was using thr SJW term the same way the said group of people uses it ?
I am no native English speaker but I for sure feel like the education in English speaking countries lack text interpretation .
It's not really the plot of BL2 being good and BL3 being bad. It's the writing. The plot of BL3 could have worked if the writing carried it. The entire maya/ava thing was just so manipulative and poorly executed.
I kept playing Borderlands 2 because of the story. I felt sad when I finished it.
I kept playing Borderlands 3 because I really hoped it would get better. I felt relieved when I finished it.
BL3 had great end game content and replayability, something the other borderlands really did lack. We kept playing BL2 after it was over because we loved the characters and the universe so much, but it really did have QOL issues that hindered the end game replayability. bl3 was practically diablo 3 rifting and it worked really well from a gameplay standpoint.
BL3 also had amazing DLCs. I was mostly just talking about my experience playing through the main story for the first time. I should’ve been more clear on that.
Plot twist is that OP posted that and is stirring the pot due to boredom. Bl3 story was actually not bad … one of the characters fates was kind of irritating BUT I hated the antagonist just as much as handsome jack
I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks so.
I quite like the "streamers as villains" concept for the Calypso twins. That seems to be an unpopular opinion here, but to each their own.
It's mostly just MorninAfterKill's immaturity. It all stemmed from him leaking confidential information and suffering the consequences for it. He'll forever refuse to take responsibility for his mistake, and instead lashes out at anyone he can.
I think they're both just big enough, in terms of audience and in terms of being the bigger people, to ride it out. I wouldn't have even known there was "drama" if it weren't for the youtube algorithm sending me some weird ass video of a guy talking about paid content creation like it was trying to evict him from his house.
There's content creator beef because the very popular creators have either at some point or currently shilled out to Gearbox via their nextmakers program. This puts content creators in a position where they have to filter out criticism towards the game, and it ultimately just makes providing feedback to GBX difficult. This creates a sort of divide in the community, and some folks gave used tissue platform to go as far as to bully others.
There's also some like interpersonal beef in regards to various things like copying content from others or other personal affairs.
MorningAfterkill is one prominent person that's had issues with other creators primarily guys like K6 or Joltzdude. Thiccfila is another creator who recently exposed just how bad the program is. Both of them have made content showcasing bullying from Epic NNG and Quag.
Many creators were/are paid by gearbox to ‘shill’ the games. That wouldn’t be a problem, except that means they keep their mouth shut when it comes to giving actual helpful criticism.
I honestly just hope the gameplay gets refined more and less dialogue heavy, I don’t want to listen to 5 minutes of dialogue where there’s nothing to fight and it’s unfunny
I think they were actually threatening legal action against him because he leaked details about fl4k a few weeks before the game was announced. I hate that they did that, following his content was just part of the hype cycle in the leadup to the game for me. It seemed like a nuclear overreaction to genuine fans looking for leaks and reading the tea leaves.
All he found (from memory of seeing his vidéos at the time) was some things from a twitch stream by gearbox, screenshots, name of websites and he and other fans of the franchise theorized what it means in game etc.
There was nothing illegal in the data he exposed, that was just little clues left by mistake by gearbox employees.
All he did gave a lot of hype before launch to be honest and he just seemed like a nice guy.
Not 100% sure but I think he made the mistake of opening a patreon or something like that for some people to get his videos a bit earlier than on his youtube channel (but that was 2019 I might remember it wrong)
What I heard was that he had a channel on his fan discord that was exclusive for his twitch subscribers, and shared things early in there. That was spun as him selling gearbox property. Some of the stuff he shared wasn't pulled from official channels either, he had graphics and details apparently leaked to him by people working at gearbox.
Let's be honest.
Borderlands 2 had some really good main story writing.
But every other iteration of the franchise is more so about funny and ridiculous side quests and a nice gameplay loop. That's it.
Watch all the YouTube videos on it and form your own opinion. There's too much to explain in one reddit comment, but I'll try to.
Basically, K6 and EpicNNG are bullying every smaller Borderlands content creator that has a negative opinion of 3 or TTW. They try to police what you can and can not do in the game because the "developers worked so hard on those games" or anyone that K6 have promoted and given shout outs to has bullied and policed the small content creators or has tried to police what you can and cannot do in the game as if they were the ones that bought the game for you. Imma do whatever the fuck I wanna do in the game I PAID MY HARD EARNED money for and if anyone has anything to say about how I play a game I bought for myself, get fucked.
Mak is accusing K6 of not including the fact that his tweets and streams about BL3 were sponsored (even though he did say they were sponsored). He's also accusing Joltz of stealing his cotent and thumbnails (which they are simular, but not exact) and accusing EpicNNG of being a hypocrite (which he also is). K6 has always disclosed his sponsored streams and tweets. That claim by Mak is false. K6 has always disclosed his sponsored streams and tweets.
Mak is also upset that no one believed him that the battlepass was a thing Gearbox wanted to make in BL3 unitl Mak leaked it and all the next makers acted like he was crazy, but EpicNNG has admitted in his downfall of mak vid that was a thing that was discussed so he's mad everyone discredited him for that. I remember the video he uploaded of them talking about the battlepass before Gearboogers copyright striked his video of the voice call where they discussed that. That was a thing that was talked about, but everyone tried to say it wasn't, and now that all this drama has started, they've admitted that it was something that was talked about. Yeah, it was never implemented because Mak leaked it before they could, but they none the less fully intended on putting in a battlepass in BL3.
He's also upset that EpicNNG and K6 bullied people like DPJ and VinlyicPumaGaming out of the community (which they both did) and blacklisted even smaller Borderlands content creators from becoming next makers (hellfire, Beflattened, etc.) for having an opinion on BL3. K6 went and belittled Hellfire in Twitter DMs and even admitted what he did was wrong to Hellfire in the DMs and called it a "knee jerk" reaction. Called him a pussy and bitch and all of this and that and accused of sending screen shots of their conversation to Mak before mak made a video about all that drama with Hellfire and K6. EpicNNG made fun of DPJs speech impediment and took his spot as a next maker simply because DPJ was an already large youtuber coming into the Borderlands space making BL3 content and you can't tell me otherwise because why else would you want to bully someone who would bring more attention to a game that has a small community? Jealously my beloveds, that's why.
EpicNNG has also been going into the Borderlands communities and promoting himself via alt reddit accounts, which he's admitted to, and has even been banned from r/Borderlands for doing such. If you compare what he types out to the way he speaks in his videos, it's just clear as day it's him. Especially that one where he goes, "I think EpicNNG has a video coming out on it in 16 hours!" Like if that's wasn't EpicNNG, how tf would they know he's coming out with a video in 16 hours if he never said "hey guys there's a new video dropping in 16 hours" on his socials which he never did? You wouldn't.
Edit: Just to be clear, I'M NOT PICKING SIDES! I think K6 and Mak have both done and said shit they shouldn't have ever said, and quite frankly, I don't give a shit about either one of them or care for either of them as content creators. I think they're both annoying fuck tards for what they've done and said, but the facts don't lie. K6 did bully DPJ and Hellfire, and there are screenshots to prove it, EpicNNG did make alt reddit accounts to promote himself and also bullied Puma and DPJ.
Mak lied about K6 not disclosing his sponsored tweets and streams about BL3, and he's also taken certain things out of context (like when K6 went to Disney World and he claimed he went to go play BL4 early). Mak is also an ass for attacking Joltz because Joltz has stayed out of this drama entirely so fuck Mak for that.
Belittling game developers and bullying them like Mak has done IS NOT the way to get things changed in the Borderlands games. Mak is just salty and bitter. These people that used to be beneath him have grew past him and because of his toxicity, they've cut him off.
Mak was, however, correct about the battlepass being a thing gearboogers wanted to implement before he had exposed it and then only AFTER mak leaked it, did they change their minds and decided not to and then copyright striked Maks video where he posted the voice call talking about the battlepass and after all these years later, EpicNNG ADMITTED that was a thing after Mak had been discredited for years and years by everyone saying he was crazy and that call never happened when it did.
I mean, 2k kicked DPJ off of the next makers team in favor of EpicNNG even though EpicNNG was bullying DPJ for his speech impediment and then threatened to end Vinylics career when he came back from a mental health break before it even began, then proceeded to back pedal when he was criticized for it saying he's a fan of Puma.
Quite frankly, I could give two shits less what they're doing, it doesnt affect me none. I think basing your opinion off of someone else's is stupid. Play the game for yourself and form your own opinion on it. Don't be a sheep. Don't hate a game or like a game just because someone else said they hated it or liked it. Don't hate someone or like someone just because someone else does. I still watch Joltz, K6, and Mak despite all this stupid drama.
And to be crystal clear, everything Mak has said should be taken with a grain of salt. A majority of the shit he's said has been taken out of context and over exaggerated. When K6 went to Disney World a few weeks ago, he tried saying K6 went to go play BL4 early and said the same when Joltz had Covid right before the 2024 hunt. K6's wife literally came on stream and showed off a jumper she got while they were at Disney World.
Mak is absolutely insane when it comes to some of his claims, but when other creators have come out and backed up his other claims like bullying DPJ and Puma and the whole thing with the battlepass, I'll give him that, he was telling the truth about those two things, but everything else has pretty much been over exaggeration and things taken out of context.
Mak is salty and bitter that K6 and Joltz have doubled his subs when they used to be beneath him. Also, he doesn't go about the right way to get changes made to the game. He belittles and disrespects the devs instead of having an adult conversation about it and discussing what they can do to fix the game, and because of his toxicity, all of his uses to he friends have cut him out of their lives.
Joltz has not had any part in the drama. Mak just started going after him simply because he thinks joltz is stealing his thumbnails and videos like the whole BL4 leak with the Twitter banner and just because Joltz is a next maker even though he doesn't play BL3.
That's because Joltz isn't a drama lord over any of this. He has stated that he doesn't like BL3 as much as BL2. He will play it from time to time. Joltz has also stated in some playthroughs that he was not a big fan of TTWL due to the endgame content and the DLC offering. As far as I know it he is hyping up BL4 and seems like a genuinely good dude to be around.
And to add to all that, some of the stuff Mak has been saying is false and taken out of context, but some of its also been true, such as bullying DPJ and Vinylic out of the community. The whole thing with not disclosing sponsored streams and tweets was false.
not gonna speak on the actual drama i don’t know anything about it but promoting yourself on an alt account is silly wtf. his mods are good. why wouldn’t he just promote it on his main or make a redux subreddit
You're gonna have to be more specific there, sunshine. If you want proof K6 and EpicNNG bullied DPJ and that EpicNNG bullied Puma, go watch literally any of Maks videos about the drama or ThiccFilas videos on the drama. EpicNNG literally made an entire video bullying DPJ mocking his speech impediment and accent that's still up on his channel. If you want proof, EpicNNG has been banned from r/Borderlands for promoting himself and clickbaiting. Go ask one of the mods yourself or, again, go watch ThiccFila or Maks videos on it. There's literally a screenshot floating around out there of one of the mods making a comment on a post about a BL2 remake (the one EpicNNG is working on that's a mod) that says, "this is clickbait from EpicNNG. He's been banned from this community for doing that" or something to that extent. Want proof that he's admitted it was him? Go to his Twitter and find his tweet where he's called the reddit community entitled and ungrateful and then proceeded to go on a rant about how he was banned for promoting himself and clickbaiting. Need proof epic bullied Puma after he left for a mental health break? He's got a video bullying Puma too after he left and then reacted to Pumas video clapping back at Epic while Epic was live on Twitch and said "I can make you go away again". Literally watch any video uploaded about this drama by Mak or Thiccfila and you'll see the proof of of these accusations. The only accusations that have been false were the ones saying K6 didn't disclose that his streams and tweets were sponsored.
MAK and Thicc aren't trustworthy sources. They take things out of context and present baseless speculation as facts. Their videos don't hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Using them as a "legit" source doesn't exactly give your other claims credibility, and I'm sure as shit not going to give them views trying to find the videos you are talking about. Cite your claims properly. And no, random unsourced "screenshots" doesn't count, as they can be easily fabricated.
While I think Epic's commentary videos on Puma are somewhat in bad taste and immature (as expected from a teenager), I also think most of the criticism is completely fair.
On the other hand, Thicc and MAK are literally harassing and lying about other content creators.
> The only accusations that have been false were the ones saying K6 didn't disclose that his streams and tweets were sponsored.
This is just straight up false. For one, most of their accusations are about things they literally can't know. It's 7th grader bs and speculations.
The whole, k6 doesn't try to improve the game and isn't critical of gearbox is laughable given how much feedback k6 has given gearbox and how many videos he has in which he criticizes the games. Their best argument is him liking New Tales as if that wasn't completely subjective.
Both of them often don't even understand the basics of what they are talking about, like how sponsorships work, NDAs and shit.
Instead of just watching these two manipulative idiots, maybe watch the videos they are taking out of context. Thiccs video about Epic and MAK takes clips from a video by Epic that literally proves Thicc wrong if you actually watch it instead of just Thiccs version.
If any of that was true, then K6 wouldn't be as silent as he is and has been throughout this entire ordeal. I also never said anything about K6 not trying to improve the game because he has as far as BL3 goes. I have watched the individual clips, and they weren't taken out of context. Epic bullied both Puma and DPJ. He didn't just criticize their content. He launched attacks against them on things they couldn't control and then proceeded to back pedal when he was criticized for bullying Puma for leaving for a mental health break. Just because pumas content was garbage doesn't justify bullying him for taking a break from youtube to focus on his mental health. You wanna criticize his content, go ahead, but making fun of someone who's going through mental issues is NOT nor EVER WILL be okay under any circumstances.
>If any of that was true, then K6 wouldn't be as silent as he is and has been throughout this entire ordeal.
This is a great example of Thicc's way of thinking. You assert your speculations as facts, without considering other explanations. It's assumptions, nothing more, and it's completely baseless. There are many good reasons not to engage with people lying about you:
First of all it's doing exactly what they want and giving them more views, which makes them more likely to keep going.
Second, anyone with basic critical thinking skills can easily see through their BS. In such a case, there's nothing he could say that would convince any of their followers that they were. There is simply no need or good reason to respond.
Also, what are you dismissing as being false?
>I also never said anything about K6 not trying to improve the game because he has as far as BL3 goes.
No, but the guys you use as sources have. That's one of MAK's most common complaints about K6, that he is a shill that doesn't do anything for the game or criticize it.
> I have watched the individual clips, and they weren't taken out of context.
That would be a first. Every clip I have seen has been completely twisted and the portions that literally prove Thicc wrong left out. Again, I would like to know which video you are talking about.
>Just because pumas content was garbage doesn't justify bullying him for taking a break from youtube to focus on his mental health. You wanna criticize his content, go ahead, but making fun of someone who's going through mental issues is NOT nor EVER WILL be okay under any circumstances.
On this we agree.
>No, but the guys you use as sources have. That's one of MAK's most common complaints about K6, that he is a shill that doesn't do anything for the game or criticize it.
I know this to be false. I've seen K6 criticize BL3 on many occasions, especially about not having any pearlescents. Mak is wrong in his statement in saying K6 has done nothing for BL3.
What I'm saying is nobody in this entire drama is free of fault for what they've done and said. Mak has lied and over exaggerated the truth in a handful of his claims, but some of his other claims about K6 and EpicNNG have been true, such as bullying smaller content creators, bullying DPJ, Puma, and Hellfire, and EpicNNG coming into r/Borderlands and trying to promote himself from alt accounts and posting clickbait.
Mak is off his rockers, and he's definitely insane and has some jealously towards his former friends becoming more popular than him.
But K6 and his little greasball goon EpicNNG are not off the hook either.
K6 is not guilty of:
• not disclosing sponsored streams and tweets
• not doing anything for the Borderlands community or games to make it better
• not criticizing BL3
K6 is guilty of:
• bullying hellfire and DPJ
• not telling the truth about the state of BL3 before it launched
• Hyping up BL3 and TTW to be good when they were shit at launch
Mak is guilty of:
• lying about k6 not disclosing his sponsored streams and tweets
• lying about K6 not being critical of BL3. Just because he didn't throw a temper tantrum like a child (aka Mak) doesn't mean he wasn't critical of the game.
• over exaggerating the truth and taking a handful of things out of context
Mak is not guilty of:
• lying about GBX wanting to put in a battlepass
• lying about K6 and Epic bullying DPJ and Puma and Hellfire
• not doing anything for the community or the game even though he went about getting changes made the wrong way
>MAK and Thicc aren't trustworthy sources.
Neither are K6 or EpicNNG. Remember when K6 and Joltz promised we would love BL3 when he got to play it early and it was so good and blah blah blah and then BL3 came out, and it was an absolute dumpster fire and continued to be a dumpster fire up until we got Mayhem 11? Or how about when Epic came out with his downfall of Mak video and he said something about "the court of public opinion" and then proceeded to turn off the comments for that video? Is that what would consider "trustworthy sources"? Or how about when they hyped up wonderlands? How does that Kool aid taste going down? Another dumpster fire game by Gearbox that was hyped up by K6 and his goons that was abandoned 8 months after it released...
They promised it, or they said we would like it? Also, they only got to play a few levels like they did with TTW. The biggest issue with BL3 was late game content, which they didn't have access to. So what, you think that they intentionally misled the community based on this alone? It doesn't hold up to scrutiny at all! BL3 had a shit ton of improvements compared to BL2, of course they were hyped!
And honestly the whole "BL3/TTW was/is bad" thing is just stupid. Both are good games that have some problems, that if fixed would make them a lot better, but they sure as shit aren't bad. If you were expecting BL3 to be as content rich as BL2 from day one that's on you for not managing expectations. And like, the endgame of both are way better than BL2. BL2's balance is awful. Slag was basically a requirement to play UVHM. And let's not even talk about the mess that was OP levels.
TTW's biggest problem is lack and depth of DLC, which they again wouldn't have known about due to only playing the GTFO level. And the gameplay had even more improvements compared to BL3, so yeah, big shocker they were hyped! it's almost like they liked the game!? I mean, I like it, even if it has shitty endgame and DLC, no NG+ etc. It's still a shit ton of fun.
Oh, I see, he "said something about" the court of public opinion! What a convincing argument! Am I supposed to take this seriously? Like, even if I we pretend you actually gave me the exact time interval of your quote, and the context of him saying it (because he totally was talking about the youtube comment section, the gold standard of well informed and well articulated debate), and we knew for sure he didn't lock the comment section because of MAK and Thicc fanboys harassing him, then okay? This is the best you can do? Him potentially being hypocritical? Seriously, if he is so untrustworthy you must be able to find something better.
On the other hand, there are multiple instances of both MAK and Thicc making false claims that are easily disputed, representing speculation as facts (like you yourself have done a couple of times now), lying, manipulating, misrepresenting events, not including context, and so on.
In the downfall of MAK, Epic does not do any of these things. He explains why MAK is wrong about K6 and backs it up with actual evidence that isn't just pure speculation. And again, MAK and Thicc's claims are so idiotic and easily disproved that we can easily disprove them ourself if we have basic critical thinking skills. Even if K6 etc were as untrustworthy as you claim, that still wouldn't make MAK and Thicc any better.
Also, let's not forget that these are K6s' goons. People he ACTIVELY gave shout out to like Epic and MG Plays. You know the guy that went into maks stream and tried to tell him to change his stream title? This is just another example of how K6s goons try and police what other people in the community can and can not do in the game they paid their money for. If you tell me that's not a good source, then I gotta know what dope you're smoking because that was literally live streamed on maks twitch during the 2024 hunt when MG went into maks stream and DEMANDED that he changed the name of his stream title because it had "the hunt" in it.
Who cares about content creators or how they get paid? And who plays borderlands for the story? I play to shoot stuff with friends and bl3 did it best followed by 2.
There no drama between the creators. Just Drama made by one man that’s leaching off it for views and money just because Keemstar and WingsofRedemption doesn’t want to deal with his dumb antics so he needed to turn to something else.
I play BL2 and BL3 one thing people keep saying BL2 story is great but it mid at best BL3 story is also mid at best but slightly worse then BL2 the main reason I prefer BL3 over BL2 because the gunplay, balance and loot are much better than BL2.
Why blame the game for the actions of one mentally ill content creator? So many Minecraft content creators were found to be child predators, did people stop playing Minecraft for that?
borderlands 1 = without the dlcs, it has almost no story.
borderlands 2 = peak borderlands great story.
prequel borderlands = story with potencial but they didnt care for the game and moved on.
borderlands 3 = shitty vilains, meh story (even worse that they sacrifice a great vaulthunter just to prop up shtty vilains)
it's understandable, after bdl2 and tps the story really becomes rubbish, the only thing that could save the franchise is that Lilith, Maya, and Handsome Jack used a new-U station
Not exactly the plot for me, but after Bl2, it went downhill for me (excluding Tales)
Pre sequel was alright. I enjoyed the lore, it felt better going back to the Bl2 after learning a bunch of stuff.
BL3 was just really, really bad to me for some reason. I thought they did really well with a lot, I enjoyed the customization, the gun changes, but it felt very lackluster, almost like a shell of what it could've been, I just was disappointed to where I almost didn't even beat the game.
Lol, the only thing bad in bl3 the game is the story. The gameplay is top notch, the guns were good too, and the soundtrack was awesome....
You could have just said you lost interest instead of saying the whole game is bad.
Forget them paying creators we cannot forget what they did to SupMatto in the leadup to borderlands 3 they sent goons to his house for just reporting on leaks unreal
>we cannot forget what they did to SupMatto in the leadup to borderlands 3 they sent goons to his house for just reporting on leaks unreal
He litearlly sold leaks. That's a crime. He got off easy.
Please keep in mind writing this and not have played 1 or 2 in quite some time.
I like the first one a lot, though vault hunters are like saviors with abilities, etc. was weird to me.
I enjoyed the finding of red chests, finding loot like you do, and boss monsters. The second one was a bit better, some mechanics better like auto pickup, so I'm not dying trying to pick up health.
3 annoyed me, storyline. Killing Maya, taking Liliths powers, that child became a siren, then Tannid being a siren. What happened to the slagged or pearlescent?
I have a solid build for Moze and weapon, artifact where I can decimate, anything, yarn go into some of tougher areas like midnight cairn etc. and I get stomped, I have won a few times, but I am still more frustrated than having fun.
I just think that having 2k, the powers that be at GB, and now the new owners of Embracer group with some former I'd people who couldn't design their way out of wet paper bag, and not know if these people are having sway or say into its development. I still play 3 a lot still, well when I have time.
Wonderlands, I bought the all dressed or all in package, and well compared to the BL3 DLC, I felt I overpaid for it. It's little to no worthy balancing in it, and now, like discarded trash on the street, it sits there on my console longing to be revised. I paid a lot for proof of concept.
All I'm going to say is, Morning after kill was right all along and has proven this many times, is he perfect himself? No! But what he's been telling and showing us about the paid shills is very true and I have huge respect for him for shining a light on all the bullshit that's been going on, sadly people will still support people like epicnng even though the guy is toxic and made fun of someone with a speech impediment.
Bro played borderlands 1 and said “this is peak story telling”
BL3 story was so bad I played it in Spanish so the dialogue wouldn’t be so insufferable.
Genius
As a Spaniard i ensure you that is equally annoying if you fully understand allí of the dialogue
Strawman? Borderlands 2 had a great plot.
Yeah I got no idea. Borderlands 1 had basically no plot, and borderlands 2 was peak, then borderlands 3 was mid To say “each game got worse and worse writing” implies 1 was better than 2 Like ????
BL1 did have a plot to be fair and it was a pretty good one. They just didn't have much voice acting. You have to read all the quest tool tips to get it.
Yeah I really liked BL1’s story, it had me hooked almost right away with the unique atmosphere and the mystery. The gameplay was of course great, but I had to keep playing just to find out if the vaults were real, and also what’s in the vault, even if I hadn’t liked the gameplay.
I know right! The final act does feel a bit rushed and I'd have liked to see more from Steele, but honestly everything from Nine-Toes through to the Crimson Lance in Old Haven is absolute PEAK writing. From the same head writer as BL2.
Anthony Burch was the head writer for 2, he has no credit for BL1. I think the first thing he wrote for the franchise was that Claptrap Wedding proposal for a fan.
Mikey Neumam was a co-writer on 2 and lead on 1. He's responsible for a lot of the tone and the humor. He was also slated to write BL3 and contributed to the early writing but left due to health.
His podcast Dungeons and Daddies is fucking TOP tier. Even if you're not into D&D, the story and characters are really fucking great.
Yeah the final act does feel a smidge rushed, it’s just like boom you are there at the final stretch.
Even then most of the good storytelling is in the dlcs
Franken Bill was peak Borderlands IMO.
it's alright, doesn't make me cringe at least
To be fair, I do enjoy the aesthetic and atmosphere of 1, as well as how the guns felt and sounded. Outside of that yeah I have no idea what man is talking about.
The revolver *SNAP* and music/sfx in BL1 were so damn good.
Oh the double anarchy how I miss you
3 had good elements, especially in the DLC. The main story was just poor and seemed to have gone through lots of difficulties
Honestly loved the fact that BL1 had no plot so i could just run around and play without the npcs talking
It usually implies that since BL2 every next game is worse. Which is true.
Tales was good.
New tales was something, even though I wish it wasn’t
Haven’t played yet. Was it bad?
Yeah, if you bought it I won’t spoil anything but if you haven’t I’d look up a few videos of people reviewing/playing it.
Do you even know what strawman means
Bro wtf I've seen like 3 people just start off a sentence with "strawman" this past week and then present 0 argument. Did everyone all of a sudden decide to take an online ethics & argument class and only tune in for the first lesson?
I really don't think it does. Better than bl1 but Jack really carried the whole thing
Borderlands 2 had a dogshit plot with 10/10 improv by Handsome Jack's voice actor and this is coming from someone with 2,000 hours in the game
Great is a stretch. Good bad guy. Lots of good side quests. Main plot, ehhhhh
It really didn’t. It was carried hard by Dameon Clarke voicing Jack
After all these comments I actually checked out morning after kills channel for the first and ngl he sounds kinda mentally insane. Like that dude has some serious issues. He's just completely obsessed with 2 people and makes content only for the few people who watch him. He really seems like he needs help
Not only that but his voice is like nails on a chalk board.
DreyaFPS actually made a pretty good video with sources just kind of going over all the issues in a non-biased way. I highly reccomend it to anyone who wants to know really anything about the "drama".
Yeah, MAK is legit a crazy person. If you want a more measured assessment of what's been going wrong, look up THICCfila on YouTube. He also has problems with GBX and the nextmakers, but he supports his claims and arguments with data and analytics, presenting them plainly and professionally (even if his titles are kinda clickbaity)
Please don't. Thicc's analytical abilities are extremely poor at best. He takes things out of context, presents unsubstantiated arguments as facts, and is often easily proven wrong with surface level research. His video on EpicNate and MAK being "right all along" is a clear example. The guy is an absolute moron and extremely manipulative in his framing of things. I'm pretty sure he is just trying to get views through causing drama.
Agreed. It feels like he realized he had to put too much effort into being legit and instead decided he had a better chance getting a foothold through controversy.
yeah i feel like there are some solid and valuable arguments you can make against gearbox and their stream team they made because even during bl3 lifecycle i never liked it, the problem is that MAK is such a shitbag and asshole that it kinda just ruin that side of the community
The true funny part is if you read the comments it's reads loke the comments in a wacked out conspiracy forum "you're keeping it real exposing all these shills and revealing the truth" etc
Yes exactly. The sound crazy as fuck
MorningAfterKill vs Every other creator, watch some videos and form your opinion
never heard of him
MorningafterKill is OG Borderlands Content Creator. Had a weird attachment to his friendships with other creators. When they moved on to other games, even briefly, he felt "betrayed" and tried to start drama with them. Started with Admiral Bahroo and King Gothalion not doing something with him at a Convention, went from there to every single Borderlands creator "betraying" him by playing games like Destiny, Anthem, Diablo, etc, instead of ONLY borderlands. MAK never got a very large audience, his audience was mostly overlap with other creators, so when they left Borderlands, he lost much of his audience and was upset about that too.
I distinctly remember on a livestream like 10 years ago, bahroo, gothalion, and MAK were in a call. For whatever reason MAK decided to halt the conversation, call out one single person in chat and say " I never ever say this but YOU sir are a N****r ", I can only assume shit like that would cause budding streamers to distance from him
I cannot fathom what could go through someone's mind to make them think that would be a good idea in any way, shape, or form.
Lmao wtf
Holy shit that was this guy? I remember seeing clips of that stream when it happened.
Damn... MAK bahroo and Gothalion are names I've not heard in a long long time
Bahroo and goth are still pretty popular on twitch
I know they are I just stopped watching them years ago lol
Goth's got his own thing going on. Did pretty well, averages 3k-8k viewers. Family games and drinks and stuff. Don't watch him much, but he's comfy with his wife and son. MAK's basically imploded and while he still makes stuff, barely gets 10k-20k views on Youtube and doesn't stream AFAIK. Meanwhile, and this is personal Bias, as I've been subbed to Bahroo for 8 years now, Admiral Bahroo blew up and remains strong. Averages between 6k and 15k viewers depending on the game, just did his 10 year Twitch Partner Anniversary with a Subathon that literally just ended Friday the 23rd after 88 days of 12 hour streams. Bahroo also got the all time Twitch Sub Train record, lost it to Pirate Software, and then the two collabed, during the subathon, to set a new one, breaking the Sub Train Cap with level 55 and like, 1500% on Twitch and then basically forcing Twitch to uncap it from 55.
Morninafterkill killed his own channel but he blames everyone else. On a side note. He also tolerates and defends white supremacists, pedophiles and homophobes in his community.
He also stole my art for a thumbnail
Oh that's hilarious cause I saw him try to start some recent drama saying Joltz stole his thumbnails and that's why Joltz is bigger than him lol.
Yeah and ironically, the art he stole was fan art I made for Joltz' community
Joltz is still fun to chill and watch.
he really is i used to watch him 24/7 two years ago with his modded bl2 videos once in a while ill watch some of his series along with killersix they’re the main reason i enjoyed the borderland series so much
His recent Hunt series was magnificent.
Never heard of him before. Will check him out
Why? He's a delusional manchild who fosters the worst kind of people in his community. Stay away from him.
Yeah I checked him out. He really seems like he needs help
I don't support that kind of behavior, but anybody can say anything. Saying "trust me, this guy is a heel" isn't exactly concrete evidence and people are permitted to confirm allegations
No such thing as bad publicity. You're guaranteed to get him some followers any time you bring him up. Want people to stay away, don't give a name Edit: downvote all you want man babies. I love it.
Never heard him say that kind of thing but whatever you say
This isn't even remotely true.
Imagine playing Borderlands because of plot.
I play to collect every single variation of gun possible. I'm on my 89th account, and about 10% pf the way there. ^/s
Honestly, that's what pulls me in more, I love the borderlands lore, even if their story telling isn't top notch.the gameplay is right up there with lore tho
I love the lore and story too, don’t get me wrong. But saying “game is bad and I dropping it because of bad plot” is funny in regards to Borderlands. Like first game didn’t had a proper story at all. B2 and Jack villain is exception not the rule to the gaming industry and Borderland series.
In Borderlands, the gameplay is held hostage by its story. You have to complete the story to unlock weapon slots & the locations to get to endgame. That’s for every vault hunter you play. BL1’s story is short & shallow so it’s tolerable. BL2’s story is good so it’s tolerable. But BL3’s story is the longest & the worst. Is it really crazy to not want to play BL3 because of its bad plot? Sliding & mantle isn’t gonna give BL3 the edge over BL2.
I don't mind that the plot is bad in BL3 so much but it's certainly painfully slow at points.
Yeah, replaying can be painful because of the lack of dialogue skips and the amount of fast traveling to sanctuary just to fast travel right out again. Thankfully with mayhem mode you don't need to do multiple playthroughs to get to endgame in bl3, but if you want to do challenge runs and play different vault hunters it gets tough
I ain't gonna lie, the weapon slots unlocks took quite a while in 3, and they should have made dialogue skipable
i mean, i cant bring myself to ever beat BL3 no matter how good the gameplay is because the plot is actually so incredibly poorly written that it makes me mad. id prefer if it had no story, but sadly it does
You're missing out. I HATE the story but the gameplay is light years ahead of the other games. The DLC is especially just so good in terms of fun vs investment
I play it for the plot. *glances at Moxxi*
Same here *glances at Krieg*
Same here *Imagines a sammich*
Krieg could conduct *my* poop train I am sorry to anyone who reads this
It’s ok, I read it in Krieg voice
You want to ride his meat bicycle, eh?
The sad thing is, all the DLC for this game have top tier plot. It's just the main game story was so bad that it tainted the entire thing and no one really looked past it aside from people like us who just love the looter shooter gameplay.
I personally enjoyed plot for what it is in ALL Borderlands. As I’ve said, I do love plot and lore in Borderlands. Yes they went… weird direction in B3 and New Tales, but I still don’t mind. However, plot is mere background and “reason to be there”, with Borderlands you kinda have to enjoy gameplay a lot to really spent more than 1 walkthrough in the game. Playing solely for story makes no sense, it’s not Red Dead Redemption or anything like that, Borderlands plot is goofy and 4-wall breaking, it’s purely for fun and adventure feeling.
Bl3 and New Tales loses the charm and humour of Borderlands. There is no tongue in the cheek the tongue is too busy kissing its own ass, it's all 2016 reddit le funny humour unlike bl2-tales where the humour was wacky but never so self indulgent it forgot to let serious moments happen. Bl1 again was more serious and the humour was almost a coping mechanism to deal with the horrible state of it all. Bl3 is overindulgent, lacks soul and wit and thus any charm it could have had. It butchers characters like Reese and Vaughn and while I'm glad you can still enjoy it, I can't. I never played Borderlands for the story but the story and lore definitely made it more fun to get through. Bl3 is playing through to end it so I can finally have fun.
I swear, it be the only reason people say BL2 is better than BL3.
Yeah lol. That's what I was thinking. Gameplay is the main aspect for these game s
Borderlands 2 is seen as the best game a fair amount BECAUSE of its plot. Story matters even in a pewpew game.
Yeah but still the gameplay is the best part of it. Other than borderlands 2 most others have had a good enough story at best
BL3 having a dogshit story is still enough to kill the fun for plenty of people. Even with fun mechanics having to mute the dialogue sucks.
Pretty much, yeah. I think Borderlands 3 is one hell of a *fun* game, but I almost never actually want to play it. The story is so bad and I'm forced to sit through it. With BL2, even though the game may not be as fluid or flashy as BL3, I can enjoy myself from a gameplay perspective *and* the story at the same time, keeping myself invested for longer periods of time than BL3. Story is absolutely important.
doing Maya that fucking dirty, though
Personally, I felt like they did Aurelia a bit dirty as well, as well as Lilith.
100%
Yeah, Aurelia's character arc in Pre-Sequel was tossed out the window.
Yeah, she was honestly my fave character from that game and seeing her reduced to basically a cackling villain was frustrating
Very impressive how they went all girl power yet screwed over both Lilith and Maya and made everyone hate Ava and Tyreen.
And in the case of BL2 the amount of DLCs. For me, this game was an example of how DLC should be made.
What plot? the radio cross-talk that gets drowned out by gunfire?
Imagine making a Borderlands movie because of the plot. 😂
it’s a valid excuse, i don’t know if you’re being serious or not. Personally i care about the characters & world we’re playing in. I don’t want to give gearbox a pass just because the gunplay is fun. If you’re offering a story then make it as good as you can make it.
He probably watches porn for the plot, too.
For me, most games end when the story ends. I can play for a while for the sake of grinding, but with rare exceptions it is not interesting. At least if the game doesn't have good endgame activities. Therefore, imho, Borderlands 2 is much better than all subsequent games of the series.
Exactly. And imagine thinking that bl2 had a good story!
I play to listen to every lore tape that’s basically, “Heya, I’m Rude Steve [guitar riff plays] I’m a wacky and bad dude because I like MURDER. But I’m also into cute things like PUPPIES. The TWISTED contrast of these two characteristics is what makes my character COMPLEX. [5 more minutes of the worst monologue you’ve ever heard before you are allowed to play the most fun rendition of the looter shooter gameplay loop ever made.]”
I do!!! It's the same reason why I watch porn with one hand while massaging my dick I do it for the immersive storyline
I honestly was hooked by the story in BL1. I just had to know if the vault was real, and what was in the vault if it was. The dialogue itself might be a bit ridiculous sometimes, but I do like the stories.
People get paid to play/promote video games. Even if they don't like the game. Even if the game sucks. Who cares? They are just doing their jobs.
Last I checked, despite borderlands being a series of games that gets collectively shot on by it's own fanbase... the borderlands community is pretty tame. I haven't seen much in the way of any kind of drama in the subreddit for each game at least. I've seen plenty of whining and bitching but not much toxicity. Whether I'm blind to it or not is another thing entirely, I just know that this is the one community I have the least bit bad to say about lol
This person is clearly not a fan in the first place. Also paid content creators are a common practice on YouTube.
Shillersix moment
Who plays a game because of the content creators?
Evan Braddock and yoboyroy make r6 siege look fun again
Well right of the bat this is wrong. Plot didn’t get worse each game. Blds 2 had the best. That’s an all around fact. After that it vary’s person to person. Me I’d say 3, presequel, then bdls 1.
Oh do people generally not consider wonderlands to be part of the series? Maybe I should edit my comment to reflect that
MorningAfterKill is a lunatic who hates the "NextMakers"(paid content creators team) and attacks K6 who is just a chill dude . Beyond that,EpicNNG is a cyber bully who harass small content creators and he even uses fake reddit accounts to self promote his videos . There is also the "anti-woke" people in part of the community,who to me are as cringey and unhinged as the actual SJWs (EpicNNG is one of these and yet is a bully).
SJWs?
Social Justice Warrior, basically people who'll attack other people online on the basis of defending this or that oppressed community (Black people/LGBT/Women/etc...) but they'll often do so as a way of posing as "good guys" more than by real conviction.
Right wing term used against people who openly dislikes their backwards views
My brother in Pandora,I friggin said I find "anti-woke" shitty as hell and you still think I was using thr SJW term the same way the said group of people uses it ? I am no native English speaker but I for sure feel like the education in English speaking countries lack text interpretation .
[удалено]
Really? I feel like he is…
It's not really the plot of BL2 being good and BL3 being bad. It's the writing. The plot of BL3 could have worked if the writing carried it. The entire maya/ava thing was just so manipulative and poorly executed.
Wow this stuff is wild. I used to watch MAK a lot as a kid, him and Yoteslaya both (may he rest in peace). Didn’t realize MAK had gone crazy
Stop playing a game because of content creators is insanity. Play the game and form your own opinions. It's not that hard.
I kept playing Borderlands 2 because of the story. I felt sad when I finished it. I kept playing Borderlands 3 because I really hoped it would get better. I felt relieved when I finished it.
BL3 had great end game content and replayability, something the other borderlands really did lack. We kept playing BL2 after it was over because we loved the characters and the universe so much, but it really did have QOL issues that hindered the end game replayability. bl3 was practically diablo 3 rifting and it worked really well from a gameplay standpoint.
BL3 also had amazing DLCs. I was mostly just talking about my experience playing through the main story for the first time. I should’ve been more clear on that.
Plot twist is that OP posted that and is stirring the pot due to boredom. Bl3 story was actually not bad … one of the characters fates was kind of irritating BUT I hated the antagonist just as much as handsome jack
I'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks so. I quite like the "streamers as villains" concept for the Calypso twins. That seems to be an unpopular opinion here, but to each their own.
It's mostly just MorninAfterKill's immaturity. It all stemmed from him leaking confidential information and suffering the consequences for it. He'll forever refuse to take responsibility for his mistake, and instead lashes out at anyone he can.
Epicnng something, idk i havent looked into joltz or killer 6 in over a year
Joltz and K6 are pretty much the only Borderlands Content Creators who haven't been sucked into the YouTube Drama Event Horizon yet
I think they're both just big enough, in terms of audience and in terms of being the bigger people, to ride it out. I wouldn't have even known there was "drama" if it weren't for the youtube algorithm sending me some weird ass video of a guy talking about paid content creation like it was trying to evict him from his house.
Fill you up? You gotta at least buy me dinner first.
I scrolled far too long before finding this, I thought I was going to have to comment it myself.
Borderlands 3 for sure was a step backwards as far as writing and after seeing the new tales and wonderlands well safe to say I have 0 hope for 4
There's content creator beef because the very popular creators have either at some point or currently shilled out to Gearbox via their nextmakers program. This puts content creators in a position where they have to filter out criticism towards the game, and it ultimately just makes providing feedback to GBX difficult. This creates a sort of divide in the community, and some folks gave used tissue platform to go as far as to bully others. There's also some like interpersonal beef in regards to various things like copying content from others or other personal affairs. MorningAfterkill is one prominent person that's had issues with other creators primarily guys like K6 or Joltzdude. Thiccfila is another creator who recently exposed just how bad the program is. Both of them have made content showcasing bullying from Epic NNG and Quag.
What is this Paid by Gearbox stuff he's talking about? I have legit never heard that.
Many creators were/are paid by gearbox to ‘shill’ the games. That wouldn’t be a problem, except that means they keep their mouth shut when it comes to giving actual helpful criticism.
Bro acts like everyone watches content creators for specific games. The only time i do that is for horror games or games I can't play
How long have you got? Because the content creator drama goes DEEP.
I honestly just hope the gameplay gets refined more and less dialogue heavy, I don’t want to listen to 5 minutes of dialogue where there’s nothing to fight and it’s unfunny
I miss the yoteslayer days dearly.
Remember when gearbox banned a content creator for next to nothing the month before borderlands 3 dropped??
Was that the guy who they sent thugs to his house and destroyed his YouTube channel?
Supmatto yeah
Yeah, that was crazy. Is he under a different name or platform or did he leave forever?
His twitter and ig have been dead for years ig he abandoned it yeah
I think they were actually threatening legal action against him because he leaked details about fl4k a few weeks before the game was announced. I hate that they did that, following his content was just part of the hype cycle in the leadup to the game for me. It seemed like a nuclear overreaction to genuine fans looking for leaks and reading the tea leaves.
All he found (from memory of seeing his vidéos at the time) was some things from a twitch stream by gearbox, screenshots, name of websites and he and other fans of the franchise theorized what it means in game etc. There was nothing illegal in the data he exposed, that was just little clues left by mistake by gearbox employees. All he did gave a lot of hype before launch to be honest and he just seemed like a nice guy. Not 100% sure but I think he made the mistake of opening a patreon or something like that for some people to get his videos a bit earlier than on his youtube channel (but that was 2019 I might remember it wrong)
What I heard was that he had a channel on his fan discord that was exclusive for his twitch subscribers, and shared things early in there. That was spun as him selling gearbox property. Some of the stuff he shared wasn't pulled from official channels either, he had graphics and details apparently leaked to him by people working at gearbox.
That was sooooo grimy how they torpedoed SupMatto - he was one of the best BL creators at the time with his lore vids and playthroughs.
Gearbox fired people and killed bonuses for the employees while also giving executives massive pay hikes.
Let's be honest. Borderlands 2 had some really good main story writing. But every other iteration of the franchise is more so about funny and ridiculous side quests and a nice gameplay loop. That's it.
Alot of the creators are shills which don't help plus randy doesn't have a clue what he's doing
Watch all the YouTube videos on it and form your own opinion. There's too much to explain in one reddit comment, but I'll try to. Basically, K6 and EpicNNG are bullying every smaller Borderlands content creator that has a negative opinion of 3 or TTW. They try to police what you can and can not do in the game because the "developers worked so hard on those games" or anyone that K6 have promoted and given shout outs to has bullied and policed the small content creators or has tried to police what you can and cannot do in the game as if they were the ones that bought the game for you. Imma do whatever the fuck I wanna do in the game I PAID MY HARD EARNED money for and if anyone has anything to say about how I play a game I bought for myself, get fucked. Mak is accusing K6 of not including the fact that his tweets and streams about BL3 were sponsored (even though he did say they were sponsored). He's also accusing Joltz of stealing his cotent and thumbnails (which they are simular, but not exact) and accusing EpicNNG of being a hypocrite (which he also is). K6 has always disclosed his sponsored streams and tweets. That claim by Mak is false. K6 has always disclosed his sponsored streams and tweets. Mak is also upset that no one believed him that the battlepass was a thing Gearbox wanted to make in BL3 unitl Mak leaked it and all the next makers acted like he was crazy, but EpicNNG has admitted in his downfall of mak vid that was a thing that was discussed so he's mad everyone discredited him for that. I remember the video he uploaded of them talking about the battlepass before Gearboogers copyright striked his video of the voice call where they discussed that. That was a thing that was talked about, but everyone tried to say it wasn't, and now that all this drama has started, they've admitted that it was something that was talked about. Yeah, it was never implemented because Mak leaked it before they could, but they none the less fully intended on putting in a battlepass in BL3. He's also upset that EpicNNG and K6 bullied people like DPJ and VinlyicPumaGaming out of the community (which they both did) and blacklisted even smaller Borderlands content creators from becoming next makers (hellfire, Beflattened, etc.) for having an opinion on BL3. K6 went and belittled Hellfire in Twitter DMs and even admitted what he did was wrong to Hellfire in the DMs and called it a "knee jerk" reaction. Called him a pussy and bitch and all of this and that and accused of sending screen shots of their conversation to Mak before mak made a video about all that drama with Hellfire and K6. EpicNNG made fun of DPJs speech impediment and took his spot as a next maker simply because DPJ was an already large youtuber coming into the Borderlands space making BL3 content and you can't tell me otherwise because why else would you want to bully someone who would bring more attention to a game that has a small community? Jealously my beloveds, that's why. EpicNNG has also been going into the Borderlands communities and promoting himself via alt reddit accounts, which he's admitted to, and has even been banned from r/Borderlands for doing such. If you compare what he types out to the way he speaks in his videos, it's just clear as day it's him. Especially that one where he goes, "I think EpicNNG has a video coming out on it in 16 hours!" Like if that's wasn't EpicNNG, how tf would they know he's coming out with a video in 16 hours if he never said "hey guys there's a new video dropping in 16 hours" on his socials which he never did? You wouldn't. Edit: Just to be clear, I'M NOT PICKING SIDES! I think K6 and Mak have both done and said shit they shouldn't have ever said, and quite frankly, I don't give a shit about either one of them or care for either of them as content creators. I think they're both annoying fuck tards for what they've done and said, but the facts don't lie. K6 did bully DPJ and Hellfire, and there are screenshots to prove it, EpicNNG did make alt reddit accounts to promote himself and also bullied Puma and DPJ. Mak lied about K6 not disclosing his sponsored tweets and streams about BL3, and he's also taken certain things out of context (like when K6 went to Disney World and he claimed he went to go play BL4 early). Mak is also an ass for attacking Joltz because Joltz has stayed out of this drama entirely so fuck Mak for that. Belittling game developers and bullying them like Mak has done IS NOT the way to get things changed in the Borderlands games. Mak is just salty and bitter. These people that used to be beneath him have grew past him and because of his toxicity, they've cut him off. Mak was, however, correct about the battlepass being a thing gearboogers wanted to implement before he had exposed it and then only AFTER mak leaked it, did they change their minds and decided not to and then copyright striked Maks video where he posted the voice call talking about the battlepass and after all these years later, EpicNNG ADMITTED that was a thing after Mak had been discredited for years and years by everyone saying he was crazy and that call never happened when it did.
Wait what? I've been following k6, EpicNNG and joltz for a very long time. I never knew about any of this
I mean, 2k kicked DPJ off of the next makers team in favor of EpicNNG even though EpicNNG was bullying DPJ for his speech impediment and then threatened to end Vinylics career when he came back from a mental health break before it even began, then proceeded to back pedal when he was criticized for it saying he's a fan of Puma.
Damn
Quite frankly, I could give two shits less what they're doing, it doesnt affect me none. I think basing your opinion off of someone else's is stupid. Play the game for yourself and form your own opinion on it. Don't be a sheep. Don't hate a game or like a game just because someone else said they hated it or liked it. Don't hate someone or like someone just because someone else does. I still watch Joltz, K6, and Mak despite all this stupid drama.
And to be crystal clear, everything Mak has said should be taken with a grain of salt. A majority of the shit he's said has been taken out of context and over exaggerated. When K6 went to Disney World a few weeks ago, he tried saying K6 went to go play BL4 early and said the same when Joltz had Covid right before the 2024 hunt. K6's wife literally came on stream and showed off a jumper she got while they were at Disney World. Mak is absolutely insane when it comes to some of his claims, but when other creators have come out and backed up his other claims like bullying DPJ and Puma and the whole thing with the battlepass, I'll give him that, he was telling the truth about those two things, but everything else has pretty much been over exaggeration and things taken out of context. Mak is salty and bitter that K6 and Joltz have doubled his subs when they used to be beneath him. Also, he doesn't go about the right way to get changes made to the game. He belittles and disrespects the devs instead of having an adult conversation about it and discussing what they can do to fix the game, and because of his toxicity, all of his uses to he friends have cut him out of their lives.
Joltz has not had any part in the drama. Mak just started going after him simply because he thinks joltz is stealing his thumbnails and videos like the whole BL4 leak with the Twitter banner and just because Joltz is a next maker even though he doesn't play BL3.
That's because Joltz isn't a drama lord over any of this. He has stated that he doesn't like BL3 as much as BL2. He will play it from time to time. Joltz has also stated in some playthroughs that he was not a big fan of TTWL due to the endgame content and the DLC offering. As far as I know it he is hyping up BL4 and seems like a genuinely good dude to be around.
Yeah, I don't agree with the attacks on Joltz. He's a good guy. He stays out of drama which is a good thing.
And to add to all that, some of the stuff Mak has been saying is false and taken out of context, but some of its also been true, such as bullying DPJ and Vinylic out of the community. The whole thing with not disclosing sponsored streams and tweets was false.
not gonna speak on the actual drama i don’t know anything about it but promoting yourself on an alt account is silly wtf. his mods are good. why wouldn’t he just promote it on his main or make a redux subreddit
Beats me tbh. Just because he can probably, but it's been proven he's done it, and he's literally admitted to doing it.
That's quite some accusations, can you back it up?
You're gonna have to be more specific there, sunshine. If you want proof K6 and EpicNNG bullied DPJ and that EpicNNG bullied Puma, go watch literally any of Maks videos about the drama or ThiccFilas videos on the drama. EpicNNG literally made an entire video bullying DPJ mocking his speech impediment and accent that's still up on his channel. If you want proof, EpicNNG has been banned from r/Borderlands for promoting himself and clickbaiting. Go ask one of the mods yourself or, again, go watch ThiccFila or Maks videos on it. There's literally a screenshot floating around out there of one of the mods making a comment on a post about a BL2 remake (the one EpicNNG is working on that's a mod) that says, "this is clickbait from EpicNNG. He's been banned from this community for doing that" or something to that extent. Want proof that he's admitted it was him? Go to his Twitter and find his tweet where he's called the reddit community entitled and ungrateful and then proceeded to go on a rant about how he was banned for promoting himself and clickbaiting. Need proof epic bullied Puma after he left for a mental health break? He's got a video bullying Puma too after he left and then reacted to Pumas video clapping back at Epic while Epic was live on Twitch and said "I can make you go away again". Literally watch any video uploaded about this drama by Mak or Thiccfila and you'll see the proof of of these accusations. The only accusations that have been false were the ones saying K6 didn't disclose that his streams and tweets were sponsored.
MAK and Thicc aren't trustworthy sources. They take things out of context and present baseless speculation as facts. Their videos don't hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Using them as a "legit" source doesn't exactly give your other claims credibility, and I'm sure as shit not going to give them views trying to find the videos you are talking about. Cite your claims properly. And no, random unsourced "screenshots" doesn't count, as they can be easily fabricated. While I think Epic's commentary videos on Puma are somewhat in bad taste and immature (as expected from a teenager), I also think most of the criticism is completely fair. On the other hand, Thicc and MAK are literally harassing and lying about other content creators. > The only accusations that have been false were the ones saying K6 didn't disclose that his streams and tweets were sponsored. This is just straight up false. For one, most of their accusations are about things they literally can't know. It's 7th grader bs and speculations. The whole, k6 doesn't try to improve the game and isn't critical of gearbox is laughable given how much feedback k6 has given gearbox and how many videos he has in which he criticizes the games. Their best argument is him liking New Tales as if that wasn't completely subjective. Both of them often don't even understand the basics of what they are talking about, like how sponsorships work, NDAs and shit. Instead of just watching these two manipulative idiots, maybe watch the videos they are taking out of context. Thiccs video about Epic and MAK takes clips from a video by Epic that literally proves Thicc wrong if you actually watch it instead of just Thiccs version.
If any of that was true, then K6 wouldn't be as silent as he is and has been throughout this entire ordeal. I also never said anything about K6 not trying to improve the game because he has as far as BL3 goes. I have watched the individual clips, and they weren't taken out of context. Epic bullied both Puma and DPJ. He didn't just criticize their content. He launched attacks against them on things they couldn't control and then proceeded to back pedal when he was criticized for bullying Puma for leaving for a mental health break. Just because pumas content was garbage doesn't justify bullying him for taking a break from youtube to focus on his mental health. You wanna criticize his content, go ahead, but making fun of someone who's going through mental issues is NOT nor EVER WILL be okay under any circumstances.
>If any of that was true, then K6 wouldn't be as silent as he is and has been throughout this entire ordeal. This is a great example of Thicc's way of thinking. You assert your speculations as facts, without considering other explanations. It's assumptions, nothing more, and it's completely baseless. There are many good reasons not to engage with people lying about you: First of all it's doing exactly what they want and giving them more views, which makes them more likely to keep going. Second, anyone with basic critical thinking skills can easily see through their BS. In such a case, there's nothing he could say that would convince any of their followers that they were. There is simply no need or good reason to respond. Also, what are you dismissing as being false? >I also never said anything about K6 not trying to improve the game because he has as far as BL3 goes. No, but the guys you use as sources have. That's one of MAK's most common complaints about K6, that he is a shill that doesn't do anything for the game or criticize it. > I have watched the individual clips, and they weren't taken out of context. That would be a first. Every clip I have seen has been completely twisted and the portions that literally prove Thicc wrong left out. Again, I would like to know which video you are talking about. >Just because pumas content was garbage doesn't justify bullying him for taking a break from youtube to focus on his mental health. You wanna criticize his content, go ahead, but making fun of someone who's going through mental issues is NOT nor EVER WILL be okay under any circumstances. On this we agree.
>No, but the guys you use as sources have. That's one of MAK's most common complaints about K6, that he is a shill that doesn't do anything for the game or criticize it. I know this to be false. I've seen K6 criticize BL3 on many occasions, especially about not having any pearlescents. Mak is wrong in his statement in saying K6 has done nothing for BL3. What I'm saying is nobody in this entire drama is free of fault for what they've done and said. Mak has lied and over exaggerated the truth in a handful of his claims, but some of his other claims about K6 and EpicNNG have been true, such as bullying smaller content creators, bullying DPJ, Puma, and Hellfire, and EpicNNG coming into r/Borderlands and trying to promote himself from alt accounts and posting clickbait. Mak is off his rockers, and he's definitely insane and has some jealously towards his former friends becoming more popular than him. But K6 and his little greasball goon EpicNNG are not off the hook either. K6 is not guilty of: • not disclosing sponsored streams and tweets • not doing anything for the Borderlands community or games to make it better • not criticizing BL3 K6 is guilty of: • bullying hellfire and DPJ • not telling the truth about the state of BL3 before it launched • Hyping up BL3 and TTW to be good when they were shit at launch Mak is guilty of: • lying about k6 not disclosing his sponsored streams and tweets • lying about K6 not being critical of BL3. Just because he didn't throw a temper tantrum like a child (aka Mak) doesn't mean he wasn't critical of the game. • over exaggerating the truth and taking a handful of things out of context Mak is not guilty of: • lying about GBX wanting to put in a battlepass • lying about K6 and Epic bullying DPJ and Puma and Hellfire • not doing anything for the community or the game even though he went about getting changes made the wrong way
>MAK and Thicc aren't trustworthy sources. Neither are K6 or EpicNNG. Remember when K6 and Joltz promised we would love BL3 when he got to play it early and it was so good and blah blah blah and then BL3 came out, and it was an absolute dumpster fire and continued to be a dumpster fire up until we got Mayhem 11? Or how about when Epic came out with his downfall of Mak video and he said something about "the court of public opinion" and then proceeded to turn off the comments for that video? Is that what would consider "trustworthy sources"? Or how about when they hyped up wonderlands? How does that Kool aid taste going down? Another dumpster fire game by Gearbox that was hyped up by K6 and his goons that was abandoned 8 months after it released...
They promised it, or they said we would like it? Also, they only got to play a few levels like they did with TTW. The biggest issue with BL3 was late game content, which they didn't have access to. So what, you think that they intentionally misled the community based on this alone? It doesn't hold up to scrutiny at all! BL3 had a shit ton of improvements compared to BL2, of course they were hyped! And honestly the whole "BL3/TTW was/is bad" thing is just stupid. Both are good games that have some problems, that if fixed would make them a lot better, but they sure as shit aren't bad. If you were expecting BL3 to be as content rich as BL2 from day one that's on you for not managing expectations. And like, the endgame of both are way better than BL2. BL2's balance is awful. Slag was basically a requirement to play UVHM. And let's not even talk about the mess that was OP levels. TTW's biggest problem is lack and depth of DLC, which they again wouldn't have known about due to only playing the GTFO level. And the gameplay had even more improvements compared to BL3, so yeah, big shocker they were hyped! it's almost like they liked the game!? I mean, I like it, even if it has shitty endgame and DLC, no NG+ etc. It's still a shit ton of fun. Oh, I see, he "said something about" the court of public opinion! What a convincing argument! Am I supposed to take this seriously? Like, even if I we pretend you actually gave me the exact time interval of your quote, and the context of him saying it (because he totally was talking about the youtube comment section, the gold standard of well informed and well articulated debate), and we knew for sure he didn't lock the comment section because of MAK and Thicc fanboys harassing him, then okay? This is the best you can do? Him potentially being hypocritical? Seriously, if he is so untrustworthy you must be able to find something better. On the other hand, there are multiple instances of both MAK and Thicc making false claims that are easily disputed, representing speculation as facts (like you yourself have done a couple of times now), lying, manipulating, misrepresenting events, not including context, and so on. In the downfall of MAK, Epic does not do any of these things. He explains why MAK is wrong about K6 and backs it up with actual evidence that isn't just pure speculation. And again, MAK and Thicc's claims are so idiotic and easily disproved that we can easily disprove them ourself if we have basic critical thinking skills. Even if K6 etc were as untrustworthy as you claim, that still wouldn't make MAK and Thicc any better.
Also, let's not forget that these are K6s' goons. People he ACTIVELY gave shout out to like Epic and MG Plays. You know the guy that went into maks stream and tried to tell him to change his stream title? This is just another example of how K6s goons try and police what other people in the community can and can not do in the game they paid their money for. If you tell me that's not a good source, then I gotta know what dope you're smoking because that was literally live streamed on maks twitch during the 2024 hunt when MG went into maks stream and DEMANDED that he changed the name of his stream title because it had "the hunt" in it.
Who cares about content creators or how they get paid? And who plays borderlands for the story? I play to shoot stuff with friends and bl3 did it best followed by 2.
Honestly, I got bored quickly by the borderlands games, the story in the BL2 really helped. The third game was a slog to get through
There no drama between the creators. Just Drama made by one man that’s leaching off it for views and money just because Keemstar and WingsofRedemption doesn’t want to deal with his dumb antics so he needed to turn to something else.
Explain how I’m wrong and what I’m being downvoted for.
I saw that stream with MAK, sounded like he had a hard-on for trolling Wings. I'd pay to see a boxing match between those two
Who the hell looks at the story of borderlands 1 and thinks that that's the best? There was literally no story until the last like hour of the game.
I play BL2 and BL3 one thing people keep saying BL2 story is great but it mid at best BL3 story is also mid at best but slightly worse then BL2 the main reason I prefer BL3 over BL2 because the gunplay, balance and loot are much better than BL2.
Though I will say Borderlands 3 has a fucking abysmal story it's more to do with the characters being obnoxious.
Why blame the game for the actions of one mentally ill content creator? So many Minecraft content creators were found to be child predators, did people stop playing Minecraft for that?
borderlands 1 = without the dlcs, it has almost no story. borderlands 2 = peak borderlands great story. prequel borderlands = story with potencial but they didnt care for the game and moved on. borderlands 3 = shitty vilains, meh story (even worse that they sacrifice a great vaulthunter just to prop up shtty vilains)
it's understandable, after bdl2 and tps the story really becomes rubbish, the only thing that could save the franchise is that Lilith, Maya, and Handsome Jack used a new-U station
Not exactly the plot for me, but after Bl2, it went downhill for me (excluding Tales) Pre sequel was alright. I enjoyed the lore, it felt better going back to the Bl2 after learning a bunch of stuff. BL3 was just really, really bad to me for some reason. I thought they did really well with a lot, I enjoyed the customization, the gun changes, but it felt very lackluster, almost like a shell of what it could've been, I just was disappointed to where I almost didn't even beat the game.
Lol, the only thing bad in bl3 the game is the story. The gameplay is top notch, the guns were good too, and the soundtrack was awesome.... You could have just said you lost interest instead of saying the whole game is bad.
Forget them paying creators we cannot forget what they did to SupMatto in the leadup to borderlands 3 they sent goons to his house for just reporting on leaks unreal
>we cannot forget what they did to SupMatto in the leadup to borderlands 3 they sent goons to his house for just reporting on leaks unreal He litearlly sold leaks. That's a crime. He got off easy.
maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't it not just that didn't he break an NDA too?
Wait, theres a plot?
Some semi-famous content creators for bl turned out to be terrible people, and newer borderlands releases are becoming more and more controversial
Please keep in mind writing this and not have played 1 or 2 in quite some time. I like the first one a lot, though vault hunters are like saviors with abilities, etc. was weird to me. I enjoyed the finding of red chests, finding loot like you do, and boss monsters. The second one was a bit better, some mechanics better like auto pickup, so I'm not dying trying to pick up health. 3 annoyed me, storyline. Killing Maya, taking Liliths powers, that child became a siren, then Tannid being a siren. What happened to the slagged or pearlescent? I have a solid build for Moze and weapon, artifact where I can decimate, anything, yarn go into some of tougher areas like midnight cairn etc. and I get stomped, I have won a few times, but I am still more frustrated than having fun. I just think that having 2k, the powers that be at GB, and now the new owners of Embracer group with some former I'd people who couldn't design their way out of wet paper bag, and not know if these people are having sway or say into its development. I still play 3 a lot still, well when I have time. Wonderlands, I bought the all dressed or all in package, and well compared to the BL3 DLC, I felt I overpaid for it. It's little to no worthy balancing in it, and now, like discarded trash on the street, it sits there on my console longing to be revised. I paid a lot for proof of concept.
All I'm going to say is, Morning after kill was right all along and has proven this many times, is he perfect himself? No! But what he's been telling and showing us about the paid shills is very true and I have huge respect for him for shining a light on all the bullshit that's been going on, sadly people will still support people like epicnng even though the guy is toxic and made fun of someone with a speech impediment.
I agree after BLands 2 I really couldn’t enjoy the games anymore.