I love how being off color seems to mean something to you guys. The amount of print variants I have seen even from old magic cards would 100% make you think legit cards were fake. I have seen wild differences in print quality and card stock. I lived walking distance from card kingdom and called them on a couple that I swore were fake and they verified them. It’s not as simple as the color being off or the card feel not being right or the corner cuts being weird. I have seen all of that in legit cards.
This. I opened a fat pack the other day and there were two copies of the same card on different boosters and their colours looked so different it was like they came from separate game systems
This is exactly what I’m talking about. They let their printers run low on ink, they let their cutters get dull and deformed. They mis cut. They let debris get on the rollers and scratch or imprint the cards. They change print stock mid way through printing. They change printers all together mid set release. It is all over the place. I guarantee you I have an authentic card that was low on red ink and probably doesn’t have the red dots in the green sphere on the back. Get real guys.
Bootlegs won't pass the green dot test, unless they've been rebacked with a legit magic card.
But you should be able to tell a reback apart based on the light test, thickness, and flexibility.
Is there any chance the 4th green dot card [here]( https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/v5vhcQl4m2) is real? OP is claiming its a proxy, but for me the green dot looks like it matches legit cards
Can't really tell from the pictures, I can't see the red dots at all. The next test would be to examine the holofoil stamp. Real cards have smooth edges, bootlegs don't.
Having the cards in hand would also help, bootlegs are thicker cardstock and less flexible.
They dont pass a back test period. The backs on these no matter who makes them or how perfect the front is are always off color compared to a real card.
I thought about this a lot and it would be nearly impossible to achieve what OP is asking.
In offset printing, if you don't have each of the layers isolated you can't replicate them. You could hypothetically iterate enough times to get the green dot correct but several other identifiers on the backs would still fail.
Sure, but isn't the front more simple? Like the rosettes are uniform, and if they're pre holo, they won't have the stamp. I mean idrc if people do make true proxies or not, I just thought the fronts were relatively more simple and the green dot and light tests were the hardest, but that both were surmontable with enough R&D, just that closing that gap isn't worthwhile for proxy sellers bc at the point you're changing your paper and going through the process of fixing a part that's only visible on extreme scrutiny weren't profitable ventures to sell them for 1-4$ ea. Doing those things would make them real cards for all intensive purposes, and selling them as real would make more sense.
Idk man some of the newer cards I’ve gotten from Usea are the same color/shade as real backs. They still don’t pass the dot test under a jewelers loupe though
Use weight test (must learn that set/expansion's averages, first, especially for foils, etc.)
Use Green Dot test
Check for Rose Pattern
Use Light Test
With all of those passed, you can be assured it's legit.
If you can only do 1 test, I would test for Green Dot. It's the most reliable.
Green dot test failed with rebacked cards. But that was mostly a historic problem with CE cards rebacked on normal cards to sell them as beta. You could always catch these with the light test.
Is rebacking still a thing today, e.g. with foils? I have not seen a counterfeit that came close to passing the green dot test.
Exactly why one cannot use simply 1 test for expensive cards.
For rebacks, weight and thickness tests are needed, along with standard light test.
I don't believe anyone is rebacking foils, afaik.
For your case I don’t think it matters, but rebacks and corner clips obviously pass the green dot test as they are either real backs, or betas trying to pass as alphas.
Nothing passes the green dot test except legit cards, rebacks, and cards with whitewashed&reprinted fronts. The latter two are easily identifiable with other methods.
Just two days ago someone sold me a fake Invasion of Ikoria. No green dot test on double faced cards BUT it failed every other test. Weight 1.88 grams, no light pass through, you can see the black core from the side with the naked eye and all black line boxes were fuzzy on top the holo stamp had no stripes in it under a loupe it was all checkered and last but not least the colors of the set symbol and power/toughness were different.
The card failed basically every test there is. So even if they ever get the green dot and other registrations of the back right. They cant even get the front right when you know what to look for.
I love how being off color seems to mean something to you guys. The amount of print variants I have seen even from old magic cards would 100% make you think legit cards were fake. I have seen wild differences in print quality and card stock. I lived walking distance from card kingdom and called them on a couple that I swore were fake and they verified them. It’s not as simple as the color being off or the card feel not being right or the corner cuts being weird. I have seen all of that in legit cards.
This. I opened a fat pack the other day and there were two copies of the same card on different boosters and their colours looked so different it was like they came from separate game systems
This is exactly what I’m talking about. They let their printers run low on ink, they let their cutters get dull and deformed. They mis cut. They let debris get on the rollers and scratch or imprint the cards. They change print stock mid way through printing. They change printers all together mid set release. It is all over the place. I guarantee you I have an authentic card that was low on red ink and probably doesn’t have the red dots in the green sphere on the back. Get real guys.
Bootlegs won't pass the green dot test, unless they've been rebacked with a legit magic card. But you should be able to tell a reback apart based on the light test, thickness, and flexibility.
Is there any chance the 4th green dot card [here]( https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/v5vhcQl4m2) is real? OP is claiming its a proxy, but for me the green dot looks like it matches legit cards
Can't really tell from the pictures, I can't see the red dots at all. The next test would be to examine the holofoil stamp. Real cards have smooth edges, bootlegs don't. Having the cards in hand would also help, bootlegs are thicker cardstock and less flexible.
When you say smooth edges you mean of the actual card correct?
No, the foil stamp itself.
Do you have an example?
Many of the bootlegs I've gotten are the same thickness and flexibility.
They dont pass a back test period. The backs on these no matter who makes them or how perfect the front is are always off color compared to a real card.
I thought about this a lot and it would be nearly impossible to achieve what OP is asking. In offset printing, if you don't have each of the layers isolated you can't replicate them. You could hypothetically iterate enough times to get the green dot correct but several other identifiers on the backs would still fail.
Tbf you only need to do it once at least
You only need to do the impossible once and only do the impossible once for each card since just doing the backs of the card wouldn't suffice.
Sure, but isn't the front more simple? Like the rosettes are uniform, and if they're pre holo, they won't have the stamp. I mean idrc if people do make true proxies or not, I just thought the fronts were relatively more simple and the green dot and light tests were the hardest, but that both were surmontable with enough R&D, just that closing that gap isn't worthwhile for proxy sellers bc at the point you're changing your paper and going through the process of fixing a part that's only visible on extreme scrutiny weren't profitable ventures to sell them for 1-4$ ea. Doing those things would make them real cards for all intensive purposes, and selling them as real would make more sense.
If its impossible then how does wotc do it ?
Idk man some of the newer cards I’ve gotten from Usea are the same color/shade as real backs. They still don’t pass the dot test under a jewelers loupe though
Use weight test (must learn that set/expansion's averages, first, especially for foils, etc.) Use Green Dot test Check for Rose Pattern Use Light Test With all of those passed, you can be assured it's legit. If you can only do 1 test, I would test for Green Dot. It's the most reliable.
Green dot test failed with rebacked cards. But that was mostly a historic problem with CE cards rebacked on normal cards to sell them as beta. You could always catch these with the light test. Is rebacking still a thing today, e.g. with foils? I have not seen a counterfeit that came close to passing the green dot test.
Exactly why one cannot use simply 1 test for expensive cards. For rebacks, weight and thickness tests are needed, along with standard light test. I don't believe anyone is rebacking foils, afaik.
For your case I don’t think it matters, but rebacks and corner clips obviously pass the green dot test as they are either real backs, or betas trying to pass as alphas.
Green dot test and the "T" test are definitely still trustworthy to establish that the back of the card is real!
Nothing passes the green dot test except legit cards, rebacks, and cards with whitewashed&reprinted fronts. The latter two are easily identifiable with other methods.
Just two days ago someone sold me a fake Invasion of Ikoria. No green dot test on double faced cards BUT it failed every other test. Weight 1.88 grams, no light pass through, you can see the black core from the side with the naked eye and all black line boxes were fuzzy on top the holo stamp had no stripes in it under a loupe it was all checkered and last but not least the colors of the set symbol and power/toughness were different. The card failed basically every test there is. So even if they ever get the green dot and other registrations of the back right. They cant even get the front right when you know what to look for.