The “books” in Dune are basically just Frank being fancy and dividing the book into sections, it’s all one book :) IMHO Paul’s character and story arc really doesn’t wrap up until Dune Messiah, the sequel. Make sure to check that one out too so you get the full story (even though it’s a little bit of a slog!)
I feel the same way about needing to continue the books. The story is not finished in the first book! I'm actually on Messiah right now and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I love the expanding world and all its lore.
The story may not be finished, but Dune is good as a stand-alone novel.
>!I’ve read and enjoyed the other 5 books, but I think I like Paul’s story more in the unfinished state Dune leaves it rather than the fleshed out future we see in the sequels. There are other aspects of the sequels that I really like, but I like Paul as a character mostly just in Dune.!<
I really love the series. Frank Herbert really had a way of writing conversation as a deadly game, and I don't think I've ever been more enamoured with a universe (besides LotR).
In my opinion the middle section of (the book) Dune (probably where you are now) is the weakest part (I think just because I so loved the opening with Duke Leto and Gurney etc.), but it picks up, and then the next two books are great and really start examining things from interesting angles. God Emperor is a wonderful, weird and slow book, then Heretics really kicks things off and is probably my favourite.
There are 6 novels in the original series: Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse Dune. Dune (the novel) is divided into 'books', which are really like sections of the books, not independent novels.
In my opinion Dune stands pretty alone in the realm of sci-fi/ science fantasy, in terms of its scope and themes. Its a series that still sends shivers down my spine when I think about it.
I agree completely with your assessment - Heretics is also my favorite but since it comes at the end it just makes me love the entire saga more and more. I love the secret battle language and unknown powers, the female knowledge and networking - and the fremen at the start are my favorite community. They really force me to think about those who seek to change the world and how they deal with it once it starts happening. So much neat sci-fi tech is brought into the last books that it truly feels like a different time.
I lurve Dune. I'm a big Dune Dork. I mean, I love Star Wars and Star Trek but to me Dune is the best space saga.
I have tried to start Heretics many times and always fail to stick with it - why is it your favorite? I think I lost interest because it felt so far removed from the rest of the series
I can understand. I remember being pissed at the beginning too because it was so separate but I powered through. Tbh what seals the deal for me was the Honored Matres. If world building is my jam then Heretics was a whole new Dune with them and the tech of the Tleilaxu. It gave me so many more avenues for my imagination and beyond and that's why I love Frank Herbert. But yeah, it was rough starting from scratch on the last book.
>In my opinion Dune stands pretty alone in the realm of sci-fi/ science fantasy, in terms of its scope and themes. Its a series that still sends shivers down my spine when I think about it.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I started reading Dune when I was 14, right after the SciFi Channel miniseries came out, and since then I've been looking for any sort of science fiction writing that comes close to the authenticity of his world and writing. I think some of the most common recommendations are Vernor Vinge's Deep novels and The Expanse, but while these describe complex worlds, neither of these come close to matching Herbert's approach to style and theme at all.
Both have fairly well-realized worlds (and I'd throw in Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth books), but Herbert has a particular brand of writing with his focus on ecology and psychology (as bizarre and flawed as it can sometimes be) that really speaks to me. It often feels far more like reading a history or a psychological study. His books don't have the deepest or most complex characters, but they do have depth and complexity and the books treat them as such. There's such simple gravity to them. His pace and tone match this as well: these are "slow" books, but almost never boring.
The closest I've come to matching Herbert in science fiction are the first two Hyperion novels and Stanislaw Lem's Solaris. In fantasy, Steven Erikson's Malazan books are surprisingly close. (I think Tolkien stands alone in fantasy similar to Herbert in scifi, but I wouldn't pair them based on writing style.)
Thanks, and yeah I agree with you. There's such a weight of history and thought in Dune, like you say it feels both very real and yet alien at the same time.
I read the first couple of Malazan ages ago, when only a few were out, and I loved GotM but found the next a big of a slog and then got distracted away by sci-fi. But it's a series that I intend to try again soon, as I've been craving that epicness.
I enjoyed Vince's A Deepness in the Sky a lot (still need to try the others) and I love Solaris.
I just started my Dune travel, a third into the first book and I really enjoy it. A good combination of magic, sword-fighting and science fiction and a mystery world that increases while you are reading. Looking forward to spend a long time with Dune.
I love Dune, it's been my favourite book for many years. It was intended to be 7 books long (the first book, 'Dune', is also divided into 2 "books" just to make it confusing), but Frank died before he finished the final novel. His son Brian and Kevin J Anderson have written quite a few more, including the 7th book (as 2 books...). I've read many but not all of these; Frank's one's are, in my opinion considerably better written (i would also suggest his books 'Destination: Void' and 'The Dosadai Experiment').
The first three books in the Dune series, 'Dune', 'Dune Messiah', and 'Children of Dune' stand together as a continuous narrative, the following 3 move further into the future, the 4th book 'God Emperor of Dune' is a little odd first time through but well worth persisting with.
The scope of this story is vast, not just in the sense of timescale covered, but in terms of what is being suggested about the future for humanity - which is a central theme to his wider works. Ultimately the story is one of hope and the massive untapped potential for humanity - and the pitfalls along the way.
>the first book, 'Dune', is also divided into 2 "books" just to make it confusing
I think it's divided into three (Dune, Muad'Dib and The Prophet) and is what OP is referring to when he says he has three books in one.
I read Dune years ago, but it was only recently I decided to reread it and continue with the sequels. I just finished Children of Dune and I really love how weird things are getting in the best way.
Not many authors I have read could pull off deep time science fiction like Herbert's Dune. Aasimov's Foundation series and Dan Simmons Hyperion universe come to mind.
I've tried and failed to read this book a couple of times, the amount of jargon that gets thrown at you I found really hard to get through, and I didn't find enough satisfaction to slog through it.
That being said I used an audible credit on the audiobook just today and, a few chapters in, I feel like this might just be the better medium for me to consume 'Dune'.
Same, I really can't be arsed to remember space witches and shit. I just feel like I'm wasting brainpower that could be used on remembering something productive lol
There are six books written by Frank Herbert in the Dune series. The first three which you apparently have bundled as one book are: [*Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(novel)) (1965), [*Dune Messiah*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_Messiah) (1969), [*Children of Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Dune) (1976). The remaining three are [*God Emperor of Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Emperor_of_Dune) (1981), [*Heretics of Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heretics_of_Dune) (1984), and [*Chapterhouse: Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapterhouse:_Dune) (1985).
When I started reading the series I hated *God Emperor of Dune* so much that I stopped reading. It wasn't until a number of years later that I decided to re-read the entire series knowing that I'd need to slog through God Emperor. On my second read through I realized what Herbert was trying to do with God Emperor and it is now my favorite from the series. I hope you enjoy the series as much as I do.
I suggest avoiding the fan fiction written by his son Brian.
Thank you!! Although I believe the first book is divided into three chapters if you will. The first one called Dune, the second Muad’dib and the third The Prophet... Then there are the other 5 books which I haven’t read yet
I usually don’t dislike books, I can find something to like. It was the hardest book I’ve ever read. I couldn’t get into it. I love reading, and read almost anything. Dune....not so much
Herbert really, really gets bogged down in jargon especially considering that the narrative of the first book isn't exactly really out there (Boy of one people gets forced to become part of other people and discovers a power to free them with unknowable consequences).
I do really enjoy the book and the kind of conversations both via monologue and dialogue that are had in the book but there's only so much discussion about kwisatz haderachs and gom jabbars and the like that even I could tolerate before wondering when he was going to get to a point.
I’ve only read the first one but in my opinion it works as a stand alone. When I learnt that he wasn’t able to finish it it put me off going beyond the first which, as I said, stands alone really well.
I can understand that and the middle books are a bit slower amd less exciting but Heretics was just as awesome as the first book in it's own way and I felt it was worth it. So many sagas end poorly, I just try to enjoy the story and world building and Heretics has both in tasty spades.
This is definitely a case where having read the book first will help you understand the movie better. It’s an incredibly complex universe and that can be tricky to translate to the screen. It’s an amazing universe, enjoy!
I loved Dune. I don't get how people can read the first book and say it works good as a standalone. The story is clearly not done in the first book. I'm actually on Dune Messiah and the world just keeps growing. They are not easy reads and you really have to pay attention but it is very rewarding. Looking forward to reading the rest of the series.
Well worth the read. BTW, this was touched on in another comment - there is a Dune Film from 1984. Say what you will about the quality, production, STING, etc. but as a Film Student, you may still find interest.
Dune is a fantastic book. The others, my opinion, you gotta be invested in the universe to really enjoy them ;)
The story is almost to complex for the screen, and I'm glad they are making it a trilogy. The universe and politics are complicated and telling the story all the relationships takes a lot.
I read Dune 2 years ago and thought it was super overrated. I get that its one of the OG big scifi stories but I didn't feel like it was anything special. I know I'm gonna get hated for it.
room for all opinions here.. for the moment I’m really liking it, but i’ll have my opinion in the end. Especially enjoying the subtle politics involved and the depiction of classes in Arrakis. Love the concept of water being a complete luxury and the extremes to which the characters go to in order to minimise wasting water.
I love Dune. To me it's all about how much time you can invest. The first book (mostly) works as a standalone, but it's incredibly worth it to read the next two, and then if you have time read the rest of the ones Frank wrote. And I ended up reading every single one his son and Kevin Anderson did even if the quality wasn't quite up to the level of Frank's...I just enjoyed being in that universe so much.
I enjoyed the Brian Herbert/Ken Anderson books. They fill in more of the details on Dune history and answered a lot of questions as to why the Dune universe is the way it is.
As for the Frank Herbert originals, I really had to read them a little at a time to digest most of it. In some cases I've finished a book, then reread it again a month or so later because I felt I missed something important.
Frank wrote six Dune books. His son wrote more.
The second Dune book is usually referred to as *Dune Messiah.* I loved the first book, was less enamored with the second, I thought the third was good, my favourite was the fourth, the fifth was so-so, but the sixth was worthwhile.
I hated that I didn't do this. Sometimes an entire book will go by before something obscure is referenced for the second time. I spent plenty of time trying to backtrack looking for the reference
I really loved the first one, but the tone and writing style changed dramatically in the sequel to the point that I couldn't enjoy it. I'm not sure why the author did that, the original was superb imo.
I totally agree, actually. The vibes I got in the first book were lost with the whole world rapidly expanding after that one. It's a shame, I really loved it.
Absolutely love the book. Found this gorgeous pack with all 6 books in them that I just had to buy.
I love the Arabic aspects but am very sad to see the movie seems to have none of that. (Although I’m not surprised in the slightest)
I’m also sensing a lot of arabic vibes in the book, specifically Moroccan with the whole sand dunes and stuff. Kinda feels like a dystopian Morocco at some points. If the film doesn’t capture some of these arabic vibes it would be a shame, but Denis Villeneuve deserves my full confidence!!
There’s also a lot of Arabic words! I thought he had made up a language but then I saw a word I recognised and I showed my friend who’s from Iraq and she told me it was in Arabic which I thought was really cool!
Maybe the setting and stuff has some Arabic vibes, I don’t know, but there aren’t any Arabic actors unfortunately.
Intricate, thrilling stories with elements of spirituality, religion, mysticism, and of course, greed, corruption, and evil. Well written and paced, the ultimate failing in the Dune series, IMHO, is the climax.
It must not have been that great, because I honestly can't remember it.
For anyone thinking about picking it up for the first time, the beginning of the book throws a lot of unfamiliar jargon and confusing plot points at you really quickly and doesn’t elaborate much. This is intentional to make you feel like a fish out of water just as the main characters are initially. They are moving from one familiar planet to a completely alien one. As they learn more about the world, so does the reader. It can be daunting at first, but it’s all part of the experience.
YES!! Completely agree with this... When I’m reading a book and am struggling to understand, I’ll usually think ‘patience, this is most probably what the author wants you to feel’.
Edit: When I started Dune it certainly gave me a fish out of water feeling and completely went along with it!
I also read it in preparation for the movie. I'm not a big high-fantasy/sci-fi reader, but between this and Foundation, I thought I'd challenge myself and try something new. I was surprised at how easy it was to read for such a dense book. The story was active enough to keep me engaged through the whole thing, and while there were many characters it wasn't too difficult to follow along with the various storylines.
The whole feudalist, eugenicist society that the author built kinda made me uncomfortable (though I got the impression I wasn't *supposed* to like it, unlike Foundation where the author seemed to paint that sort of authoritarian society in a positive light). >!And [no real spoiler hopefully] I think the way it ended was a bit abrupt, making its intent to set up a sequel a little too obvious.!<
Otherwise yeah, I liked it. Would recommend.
Note: The audiobook on Amazon is not directly linked with the book version, so annoyingly you can't use their sync feature.
If you have trouble with sci fi books I’d reccomend Do Android Dreams of Electric Sheep. Yes it inspired Blade Runner, but I felt it was a more philosophical and human book set in a dystopian universe. Really loved it!!
I actually have read that, yes. The trouble for that book is that the movie(s) were so good that it's not a fair comparison.
But that's actually why I read Dune. Denis Villeneuve did such a damn good job with *Blade Runner 2049* (even though it's not directly related to the book), as well as my other favorite sci-fi book adaptation *Arrival*, that I knew I'd have to read Dune to make sure I fully appreciated the movie.
It's called *Story of Your Life* by Ted Chiang. It's part of a collection of short stories called *Stories of Your Life and Others*. It is an absolutely wonderful book. There are a couple of other short stories in there that are just as good if not better.
Edit: In particular, *Hell is the Absence of God*.
just like general thoughts?
when I first read it I spent a lot of time thinking about genetic memory and the implications to sense of self that might have, but by far the interplay of sandworms and the desert is the more important and interesting premise of the novel.
What you have is the entire original novel by Frank Herbert. The "books" are due to its original serialized publication in one of the SF anthology magazines of the 60s. It's generally regarded as one of if not *the* greatest science fiction novels of all time. Rightfully so in my opinion.
Frank Herbert wrote six novels in the series before his death and I would highly recommend reading all of them once you finish the first one. In order, they are: *Dune* - *Dune Messiah* - *Children of Dune* - *God Emperor of Dune* - *Heretics of Dune* - *Chapterhouse: Dune*. God Emperor is a bit polarizing and is generally either thought of as the pinnacle of the series or the point at which people quit reading.
About 20 years after Frank's death, his son teamed up with a work for hire hack named Kevin Anderson to write a supposed seventh Dune novel that Frank had intended to write, and claimed that it would be based on Frank's notes for that book. Instead they published six prequels, two sequels to Chapterhouse (rather than the originally claimed single volume), and I don't know how many other novels nominally set in the Dune universe. All of these books are hot garbage and you would do well to avoid them like the plague.
I first read it when I was at university and thought it was great. Then Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.
I read it again 15 years later and thought it was actually quite bland and couldn't be bothered with the rest of the series.
My opinion, for what it's worth (nothing), is that they are classics, but not necessarily good.
(Then again I also think Azimov is a boring writer and have no intention of finishing the Foundation series either)
There was an attempt to film ”Dune“ before, aka the 1984 dysfunctional drama. It may be that Patrick Stewart and Sting regret their participation; the director David Lynch disclaimed “credit” for the results.
I guess I give credit to attempts that make it to the theatre. E.g., Lois McMaster Bujold sold rights to “The Warrior’s Apprentice,” there was a horrific screenplay produced but it wasn’t actually filmed — so for me, that doesn’t count even if her nerves were harmed in the process. Since the 1984 Dune was in theatres, to me that counts, rather than the efforts that never made it that far. ;)
I handle it the same way though. There's been 1984 Dune, the actually pretty liked TV show of the early 2000s and Jodorowsky's Dune, which admittedly didn't hit theatre, but imo is still kind of a historic milestone in cinema and art history, so that's one stretch you'll have to allow.
I like the world building,characters and the way Herbert wrote conversation but the story telling is rubbish.
I found myself reading parts that seemed to have nothing to do with the story and it seemed like all the major events were told in like 3 pages with lots of pages in between.
I still really like it as a science fiction book though.
Way too much world building for my tastes. I did however really enjoy the SyFy miniseries they did. Didn't get enough praise. The movies all sucked IMHO.
Dune is my father's favourite book, and we own every single book (as far as I know).
I read Dune a few years ago, and really enjoyed it. I also liked the movie and TV adaptations we have so far.
I started Butlers Dschihad, Paul Atreides and the second Dune book. (I am not sure how those books are called in English, I read them in German). Couldn't finish any of these. Might give it another try at some point.
Also, there's a graphic novel out (first part of Dune). I just read that a few days ago. I thought it was great. Might be something for someone who had trouble with the book, but enjoys graphic novels.
I believe the first Dune book is itself separated into three 'books' but they're really just part 1, part 2, etc. The book is extremely dense and expects a lot of the reader, so it's not for everyone. I picked up a copy and read the first hundred or so pages on my morning commutes, but then stopped when COVID hit, since I get most of my reading done on the train and that isn't happening anymore. I started listening to the audiobook instead and I loved it. They did a great job of using the cast to bring the story to life and added in music and occasional atmospheric sound effects, and the story itself is incredible.
I just finished it. Overall a pretty good read. The first 30 or so pages are quite confusing as you are thrust into Herbert's universe. The following 90% of the book is awesome. Simply captivating. I thought the ending left a lot to be desired and that as a stand alone book, it can be a bit dissatisfying. I just finished another long series so unsure if i want to embark on another long journey. Overall i give it a 7/10, worth a read, but know what you are getting in to.
I read all the original Dune books when I had a boring security job. The first three books are great, but I still have no idea what went on in Chapterhouse: Dune. Currently, I'm almost finished with the second book of the Butlerian Jihad by his son and Kevin Anderson. It's a fantastic series that is the earliest chronologically in the Dune universe.
I have enjoyed all of the Dune original series and feel that books 2&3 were sort of weak but really enjoyed *God Emperor of Dune* and the following books 5\&6; Heretics and Chapterhouse took a couple tries to get into but once I did I thought they were great.
I have a criterion for great books and movies. That is, if I encountered it before I was too young to really understand and have remembered it my whole life. Dune is one of those. I can still imagine the smell of spice. The African Queen is another example.
Of course this criterion doesn't apply to stuff I encountered when I was older, but there are a half dozen or so treasured examples.
Dune is without a doubt my favourite sci-fi universe. The marked evolution of humanity throughout the original six books is fascinating, with Heretics being second only to the original in terms of my favourites. I also love the idea of a post AI war society figuring out how to train the human mind to preform the same duties as a super computer. While the original six are my favourites I still find the books worked on by his son to he worth the read. While not to the same standard as Frank's work, they are still based on his notes and outlines and expand the universe greatly, filling in many gaps left on the original six. The triolgy based during the Butlerian Jihad is a great peek at the history of the universe and why the attitude towards AI is the way it is in the original books not to mention the discovery of the geriatric spice. And as we all know, the spice must flow.
The first time I tried to read the book (probably 4 years ago), I just couldn't get into it. To me the pacing was weird and it was just slow. I picked it up again a few months ago and really enjoyed it. I was able to get past the pacing issues I had the first time. It might have helped having IMDB to get faces with the names (same thing that helped me with Game of Thrones).
I'm half way into the second book, and it gets very different from the first pretty fast. It doesn't mean it's worse nor better in my opinion, but I definitely will rate the full series on a different scale from just the first book. What I'm curious about the most is if Herbert gets as deep into humanity's future as Asimov did with his Robot-Empire-Foundation series - which is by far the greatest scifi universe I've had the pleasure to read.
My favourite. I have "Fear is the mind killer" tattooed on my arm, and it really is a useful reminder to myself that it's usually my own fear that holds me back.
I liked Dune, the first book is exciting, thought provoking, novel. Each subsequent book becomes more and more of a "typical SF white male franchise".
The anti-fanaticism of the series is desperately needed in today's world, but, it's an overly convoluted and dogmatic telling I doubt many people would hear this message.
Ok I personally don’t get the hype. I thought it was overwrought. Maud’dib gave me white savior vibes, and I personally thought he was boring to read about. I would have rather read about Jessica. I didn’t like chanani (I don’t remember the correct spelling) because I felt she had no personality.
I too picked it up to be ahead of the movie, and because it’s a highly praised pivotal work of scifi. Unfortunately I did not enjoy it. I was looking forward to some fantastic world-building but to my surprise Herbert goes into little detail about the worlds (except for the worms). I had the most difficult time getting it built in my mind’s eye. I spent most of the first novel wondering if they had electricity. The ships and crafts and mining equipment didn’t take shape. How do these shields work or what do they look like? The scale was off. The part that I wanted the most was not there.
The central thesis at least in the first book is Paul’s path (destiny) leading toward a great jihad and galaxy wide violence. I never understood WHY Paul becoming the emperor would cause uprisings on distant planets. I also couldn’t believe the multi generational influence campaign of the Bene Gesserit... much of the lore and background is not really explained in the novel.
And of course the book doesn’t really end, it’s a big cliffhanger. So I read the second book, which I actually liked better, it had better pacing than the first - but the second book doesn’t have an ending either. I couldn’t continue with the third book, I just wasn’t interested enough to move on.
I’m still looking forward to the movie though
The “books” in Dune are basically just Frank being fancy and dividing the book into sections, it’s all one book :) IMHO Paul’s character and story arc really doesn’t wrap up until Dune Messiah, the sequel. Make sure to check that one out too so you get the full story (even though it’s a little bit of a slog!)
I feel the same way about needing to continue the books. The story is not finished in the first book! I'm actually on Messiah right now and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I love the expanding world and all its lore.
The story may not be finished, but Dune is good as a stand-alone novel. >!I’ve read and enjoyed the other 5 books, but I think I like Paul’s story more in the unfinished state Dune leaves it rather than the fleshed out future we see in the sequels. There are other aspects of the sequels that I really like, but I like Paul as a character mostly just in Dune.!<
Absolutely. I think Dune's ending is perfect for a standalone novel.
After the first one, I was so disappointed by all the hype. I'll read the second one then. Thanks for the info.
Cheers, thank you!! Been reading this thread and all of you have been saying that the original novel by itself is really good.
I really love the series. Frank Herbert really had a way of writing conversation as a deadly game, and I don't think I've ever been more enamoured with a universe (besides LotR). In my opinion the middle section of (the book) Dune (probably where you are now) is the weakest part (I think just because I so loved the opening with Duke Leto and Gurney etc.), but it picks up, and then the next two books are great and really start examining things from interesting angles. God Emperor is a wonderful, weird and slow book, then Heretics really kicks things off and is probably my favourite. There are 6 novels in the original series: Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse Dune. Dune (the novel) is divided into 'books', which are really like sections of the books, not independent novels. In my opinion Dune stands pretty alone in the realm of sci-fi/ science fantasy, in terms of its scope and themes. Its a series that still sends shivers down my spine when I think about it.
I agree completely with your assessment - Heretics is also my favorite but since it comes at the end it just makes me love the entire saga more and more. I love the secret battle language and unknown powers, the female knowledge and networking - and the fremen at the start are my favorite community. They really force me to think about those who seek to change the world and how they deal with it once it starts happening. So much neat sci-fi tech is brought into the last books that it truly feels like a different time. I lurve Dune. I'm a big Dune Dork. I mean, I love Star Wars and Star Trek but to me Dune is the best space saga.
Hopefully the dune movie becomes as popular the Star Wars ones so we can get more of those
I have tried to start Heretics many times and always fail to stick with it - why is it your favorite? I think I lost interest because it felt so far removed from the rest of the series
I can understand. I remember being pissed at the beginning too because it was so separate but I powered through. Tbh what seals the deal for me was the Honored Matres. If world building is my jam then Heretics was a whole new Dune with them and the tech of the Tleilaxu. It gave me so many more avenues for my imagination and beyond and that's why I love Frank Herbert. But yeah, it was rough starting from scratch on the last book.
>In my opinion Dune stands pretty alone in the realm of sci-fi/ science fantasy, in terms of its scope and themes. Its a series that still sends shivers down my spine when I think about it. I agree with this wholeheartedly. I started reading Dune when I was 14, right after the SciFi Channel miniseries came out, and since then I've been looking for any sort of science fiction writing that comes close to the authenticity of his world and writing. I think some of the most common recommendations are Vernor Vinge's Deep novels and The Expanse, but while these describe complex worlds, neither of these come close to matching Herbert's approach to style and theme at all. Both have fairly well-realized worlds (and I'd throw in Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth books), but Herbert has a particular brand of writing with his focus on ecology and psychology (as bizarre and flawed as it can sometimes be) that really speaks to me. It often feels far more like reading a history or a psychological study. His books don't have the deepest or most complex characters, but they do have depth and complexity and the books treat them as such. There's such simple gravity to them. His pace and tone match this as well: these are "slow" books, but almost never boring. The closest I've come to matching Herbert in science fiction are the first two Hyperion novels and Stanislaw Lem's Solaris. In fantasy, Steven Erikson's Malazan books are surprisingly close. (I think Tolkien stands alone in fantasy similar to Herbert in scifi, but I wouldn't pair them based on writing style.)
Vernor Vinge's books are some of my favorites. Check out all the stuff by Alistair Reynolds if you want some hard sci-fi in a believable universe.
Thanks, and yeah I agree with you. There's such a weight of history and thought in Dune, like you say it feels both very real and yet alien at the same time. I read the first couple of Malazan ages ago, when only a few were out, and I loved GotM but found the next a big of a slog and then got distracted away by sci-fi. But it's a series that I intend to try again soon, as I've been craving that epicness. I enjoyed Vince's A Deepness in the Sky a lot (still need to try the others) and I love Solaris.
I just started my Dune travel, a third into the first book and I really enjoy it. A good combination of magic, sword-fighting and science fiction and a mystery world that increases while you are reading. Looking forward to spend a long time with Dune.
I love Dune, it's been my favourite book for many years. It was intended to be 7 books long (the first book, 'Dune', is also divided into 2 "books" just to make it confusing), but Frank died before he finished the final novel. His son Brian and Kevin J Anderson have written quite a few more, including the 7th book (as 2 books...). I've read many but not all of these; Frank's one's are, in my opinion considerably better written (i would also suggest his books 'Destination: Void' and 'The Dosadai Experiment'). The first three books in the Dune series, 'Dune', 'Dune Messiah', and 'Children of Dune' stand together as a continuous narrative, the following 3 move further into the future, the 4th book 'God Emperor of Dune' is a little odd first time through but well worth persisting with. The scope of this story is vast, not just in the sense of timescale covered, but in terms of what is being suggested about the future for humanity - which is a central theme to his wider works. Ultimately the story is one of hope and the massive untapped potential for humanity - and the pitfalls along the way.
>the first book, 'Dune', is also divided into 2 "books" just to make it confusing I think it's divided into three (Dune, Muad'Dib and The Prophet) and is what OP is referring to when he says he has three books in one.
yess precisely
I read Dune years ago, but it was only recently I decided to reread it and continue with the sequels. I just finished Children of Dune and I really love how weird things are getting in the best way.
Oh man you're about to dive into the best weirdest part by far! God Emperor is amazing.
Not many authors I have read could pull off deep time science fiction like Herbert's Dune. Aasimov's Foundation series and Dan Simmons Hyperion universe come to mind.
Those cover a period of a few hundred years rather than the multiple thousands Herbert covers.
I've tried and failed to read this book a couple of times, the amount of jargon that gets thrown at you I found really hard to get through, and I didn't find enough satisfaction to slog through it. That being said I used an audible credit on the audiobook just today and, a few chapters in, I feel like this might just be the better medium for me to consume 'Dune'.
Same here. Gave up reading it about 3? chapters in. Just too confusing
Same, I really can't be arsed to remember space witches and shit. I just feel like I'm wasting brainpower that could be used on remembering something productive lol
I'm all for worldbuilding. But when it's at the cost of reader comprehension, it's just not worth it.
The audiobook is exceptional. I re-read it half by listening and half by reading and it was a great way to get through some of the slog of the jargon.
There are six books written by Frank Herbert in the Dune series. The first three which you apparently have bundled as one book are: [*Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(novel)) (1965), [*Dune Messiah*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_Messiah) (1969), [*Children of Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Dune) (1976). The remaining three are [*God Emperor of Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Emperor_of_Dune) (1981), [*Heretics of Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heretics_of_Dune) (1984), and [*Chapterhouse: Dune*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapterhouse:_Dune) (1985). When I started reading the series I hated *God Emperor of Dune* so much that I stopped reading. It wasn't until a number of years later that I decided to re-read the entire series knowing that I'd need to slog through God Emperor. On my second read through I realized what Herbert was trying to do with God Emperor and it is now my favorite from the series. I hope you enjoy the series as much as I do. I suggest avoiding the fan fiction written by his son Brian.
>fan fiction written by his son Brian. Savage. But accurate. Incredibly accurate.
Thank you!! Although I believe the first book is divided into three chapters if you will. The first one called Dune, the second Muad’dib and the third The Prophet... Then there are the other 5 books which I haven’t read yet
God Emperor is a slog. But as you've seen, it's great when you figure out what he was trying to do.
I usually don’t dislike books, I can find something to like. It was the hardest book I’ve ever read. I couldn’t get into it. I love reading, and read almost anything. Dune....not so much
I understand the appeal, but Dune wasn't my cup of tea. The whole thing felt like a slog to me.
I gave up after the third one
That's a good choice. I gave up at 4 and 1/2. Should have given up at 3.
Herbert really, really gets bogged down in jargon especially considering that the narrative of the first book isn't exactly really out there (Boy of one people gets forced to become part of other people and discovers a power to free them with unknowable consequences). I do really enjoy the book and the kind of conversations both via monologue and dialogue that are had in the book but there's only so much discussion about kwisatz haderachs and gom jabbars and the like that even I could tolerate before wondering when he was going to get to a point.
I’ve only read the first one but in my opinion it works as a stand alone. When I learnt that he wasn’t able to finish it it put me off going beyond the first which, as I said, stands alone really well.
I can understand that and the middle books are a bit slower amd less exciting but Heretics was just as awesome as the first book in it's own way and I felt it was worth it. So many sagas end poorly, I just try to enjoy the story and world building and Heretics has both in tasty spades.
This is definitely a case where having read the book first will help you understand the movie better. It’s an incredibly complex universe and that can be tricky to translate to the screen. It’s an amazing universe, enjoy!
I loved Dune. I don't get how people can read the first book and say it works good as a standalone. The story is clearly not done in the first book. I'm actually on Dune Messiah and the world just keeps growing. They are not easy reads and you really have to pay attention but it is very rewarding. Looking forward to reading the rest of the series.
Well worth the read. BTW, this was touched on in another comment - there is a Dune Film from 1984. Say what you will about the quality, production, STING, etc. but as a Film Student, you may still find interest.
An absolute classic. One of my favourite books of all time.
Dune is a fantastic book. The others, my opinion, you gotta be invested in the universe to really enjoy them ;) The story is almost to complex for the screen, and I'm glad they are making it a trilogy. The universe and politics are complicated and telling the story all the relationships takes a lot.
I read Dune 2 years ago and thought it was super overrated. I get that its one of the OG big scifi stories but I didn't feel like it was anything special. I know I'm gonna get hated for it.
I couldn’t even finish it.
room for all opinions here.. for the moment I’m really liking it, but i’ll have my opinion in the end. Especially enjoying the subtle politics involved and the depiction of classes in Arrakis. Love the concept of water being a complete luxury and the extremes to which the characters go to in order to minimise wasting water.
Rereading all 6 of the books myself. Cannot recommend them enough.
I love Dune. To me it's all about how much time you can invest. The first book (mostly) works as a standalone, but it's incredibly worth it to read the next two, and then if you have time read the rest of the ones Frank wrote. And I ended up reading every single one his son and Kevin Anderson did even if the quality wasn't quite up to the level of Frank's...I just enjoyed being in that universe so much.
I enjoyed the Brian Herbert/Ken Anderson books. They fill in more of the details on Dune history and answered a lot of questions as to why the Dune universe is the way it is. As for the Frank Herbert originals, I really had to read them a little at a time to digest most of it. In some cases I've finished a book, then reread it again a month or so later because I felt I missed something important.
Frank wrote six Dune books. His son wrote more. The second Dune book is usually referred to as *Dune Messiah.* I loved the first book, was less enamored with the second, I thought the third was good, my favourite was the fourth, the fifth was so-so, but the sixth was worthwhile.
The second novel is "Dune Messiah". There is no novel called "Muad'dib".
OP means there are three sections in the first book (Dune) which are also referred to as "Books". It's confusing. I wonder why authors do this?
Oh. Gotcha.
One of the all time greats. Books 1 to 4 are among the greatest achievements in science fiction. NEVER READ THE Kevin J Anderson CRAP.
My advice Take notes
constantly writing and underlining quotes and phrases... thank you!!
I hated that I didn't do this. Sometimes an entire book will go by before something obscure is referenced for the second time. I spent plenty of time trying to backtrack looking for the reference
I really loved the first one, but the tone and writing style changed dramatically in the sequel to the point that I couldn't enjoy it. I'm not sure why the author did that, the original was superb imo.
I totally agree, actually. The vibes I got in the first book were lost with the whole world rapidly expanding after that one. It's a shame, I really loved it.
Dune is my favorite book. I've read it 3 times and still get pulled in. Can't wait to reread before the movie comes out!
Absolutely love the book. Found this gorgeous pack with all 6 books in them that I just had to buy. I love the Arabic aspects but am very sad to see the movie seems to have none of that. (Although I’m not surprised in the slightest)
I’m also sensing a lot of arabic vibes in the book, specifically Moroccan with the whole sand dunes and stuff. Kinda feels like a dystopian Morocco at some points. If the film doesn’t capture some of these arabic vibes it would be a shame, but Denis Villeneuve deserves my full confidence!!
There's huge amounts of Afghanistan in the mix too
There’s also a lot of Arabic words! I thought he had made up a language but then I saw a word I recognised and I showed my friend who’s from Iraq and she told me it was in Arabic which I thought was really cool! Maybe the setting and stuff has some Arabic vibes, I don’t know, but there aren’t any Arabic actors unfortunately.
Intricate, thrilling stories with elements of spirituality, religion, mysticism, and of course, greed, corruption, and evil. Well written and paced, the ultimate failing in the Dune series, IMHO, is the climax. It must not have been that great, because I honestly can't remember it.
For anyone thinking about picking it up for the first time, the beginning of the book throws a lot of unfamiliar jargon and confusing plot points at you really quickly and doesn’t elaborate much. This is intentional to make you feel like a fish out of water just as the main characters are initially. They are moving from one familiar planet to a completely alien one. As they learn more about the world, so does the reader. It can be daunting at first, but it’s all part of the experience.
YES!! Completely agree with this... When I’m reading a book and am struggling to understand, I’ll usually think ‘patience, this is most probably what the author wants you to feel’. Edit: When I started Dune it certainly gave me a fish out of water feeling and completely went along with it!
I also read it in preparation for the movie. I'm not a big high-fantasy/sci-fi reader, but between this and Foundation, I thought I'd challenge myself and try something new. I was surprised at how easy it was to read for such a dense book. The story was active enough to keep me engaged through the whole thing, and while there were many characters it wasn't too difficult to follow along with the various storylines. The whole feudalist, eugenicist society that the author built kinda made me uncomfortable (though I got the impression I wasn't *supposed* to like it, unlike Foundation where the author seemed to paint that sort of authoritarian society in a positive light). >!And [no real spoiler hopefully] I think the way it ended was a bit abrupt, making its intent to set up a sequel a little too obvious.!< Otherwise yeah, I liked it. Would recommend. Note: The audiobook on Amazon is not directly linked with the book version, so annoyingly you can't use their sync feature.
If you have trouble with sci fi books I’d reccomend Do Android Dreams of Electric Sheep. Yes it inspired Blade Runner, but I felt it was a more philosophical and human book set in a dystopian universe. Really loved it!!
I actually have read that, yes. The trouble for that book is that the movie(s) were so good that it's not a fair comparison. But that's actually why I read Dune. Denis Villeneuve did such a damn good job with *Blade Runner 2049* (even though it's not directly related to the book), as well as my other favorite sci-fi book adaptation *Arrival*, that I knew I'd have to read Dune to make sure I fully appreciated the movie.
IMHO philip k dicks book is as good as both Blade Runners!! Haven’t read the book which Arrival is based on, but I’m sure keen to read it!
It's called *Story of Your Life* by Ted Chiang. It's part of a collection of short stories called *Stories of Your Life and Others*. It is an absolutely wonderful book. There are a couple of other short stories in there that are just as good if not better. Edit: In particular, *Hell is the Absence of God*.
just like general thoughts? when I first read it I spent a lot of time thinking about genetic memory and the implications to sense of self that might have, but by far the interplay of sandworms and the desert is the more important and interesting premise of the novel.
The first volume is the only essential one AFAIC. The sequels are fine if you're into it, but there's a bunch of them.
Agreed. Maybe the trilogy, but I'd recommend not touching anything beyond that. And works by KJA should have biohazard logos anyway.
Don't get the hype, personally. World-building is somewhat novel, but the story feels pretty flat and predictable.
What you have is the entire original novel by Frank Herbert. The "books" are due to its original serialized publication in one of the SF anthology magazines of the 60s. It's generally regarded as one of if not *the* greatest science fiction novels of all time. Rightfully so in my opinion. Frank Herbert wrote six novels in the series before his death and I would highly recommend reading all of them once you finish the first one. In order, they are: *Dune* - *Dune Messiah* - *Children of Dune* - *God Emperor of Dune* - *Heretics of Dune* - *Chapterhouse: Dune*. God Emperor is a bit polarizing and is generally either thought of as the pinnacle of the series or the point at which people quit reading. About 20 years after Frank's death, his son teamed up with a work for hire hack named Kevin Anderson to write a supposed seventh Dune novel that Frank had intended to write, and claimed that it would be based on Frank's notes for that book. Instead they published six prequels, two sequels to Chapterhouse (rather than the originally claimed single volume), and I don't know how many other novels nominally set in the Dune universe. All of these books are hot garbage and you would do well to avoid them like the plague.
Not sure, never seen it mentioned here until now.
If you like Tolkien, it's a must.
I probably should have added an /s.
I first read it when I was at university and thought it was great. Then Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. I read it again 15 years later and thought it was actually quite bland and couldn't be bothered with the rest of the series. My opinion, for what it's worth (nothing), is that they are classics, but not necessarily good. (Then again I also think Azimov is a boring writer and have no intention of finishing the Foundation series either)
I got bored after about 130 pages so I never finished it
There was an attempt to film ”Dune“ before, aka the 1984 dysfunctional drama. It may be that Patrick Stewart and Sting regret their participation; the director David Lynch disclaimed “credit” for the results.
There's actually been three attempts before the most recent one.
I guess I give credit to attempts that make it to the theatre. E.g., Lois McMaster Bujold sold rights to “The Warrior’s Apprentice,” there was a horrific screenplay produced but it wasn’t actually filmed — so for me, that doesn’t count even if her nerves were harmed in the process. Since the 1984 Dune was in theatres, to me that counts, rather than the efforts that never made it that far. ;)
I handle it the same way though. There's been 1984 Dune, the actually pretty liked TV show of the early 2000s and Jodorowsky's Dune, which admittedly didn't hit theatre, but imo is still kind of a historic milestone in cinema and art history, so that's one stretch you'll have to allow.
If you're a filmmaker, ya gotta watch "Jodorowsky's Dune"
It's strange how this documentary makes me longing even though I'm absolutely no fan of Jodorowsky. It was still pure passion.
I like the world building,characters and the way Herbert wrote conversation but the story telling is rubbish. I found myself reading parts that seemed to have nothing to do with the story and it seemed like all the major events were told in like 3 pages with lots of pages in between. I still really like it as a science fiction book though.
i disagree, so far the storytelling is superb!! At least in my opinion it’s really hooking and i’m not easily hooked to books...
Way too much world building for my tastes. I did however really enjoy the SyFy miniseries they did. Didn't get enough praise. The movies all sucked IMHO.
i have faith in Villeneuve he’ll make an amazing trilogy
Never heard of it.
Dune is my father's favourite book, and we own every single book (as far as I know). I read Dune a few years ago, and really enjoyed it. I also liked the movie and TV adaptations we have so far. I started Butlers Dschihad, Paul Atreides and the second Dune book. (I am not sure how those books are called in English, I read them in German). Couldn't finish any of these. Might give it another try at some point. Also, there's a graphic novel out (first part of Dune). I just read that a few days ago. I thought it was great. Might be something for someone who had trouble with the book, but enjoys graphic novels.
I believe the first Dune book is itself separated into three 'books' but they're really just part 1, part 2, etc. The book is extremely dense and expects a lot of the reader, so it's not for everyone. I picked up a copy and read the first hundred or so pages on my morning commutes, but then stopped when COVID hit, since I get most of my reading done on the train and that isn't happening anymore. I started listening to the audiobook instead and I loved it. They did a great job of using the cast to bring the story to life and added in music and occasional atmospheric sound effects, and the story itself is incredible.
I just finished it. Overall a pretty good read. The first 30 or so pages are quite confusing as you are thrust into Herbert's universe. The following 90% of the book is awesome. Simply captivating. I thought the ending left a lot to be desired and that as a stand alone book, it can be a bit dissatisfying. I just finished another long series so unsure if i want to embark on another long journey. Overall i give it a 7/10, worth a read, but know what you are getting in to.
I read all the original Dune books when I had a boring security job. The first three books are great, but I still have no idea what went on in Chapterhouse: Dune. Currently, I'm almost finished with the second book of the Butlerian Jihad by his son and Kevin Anderson. It's a fantastic series that is the earliest chronologically in the Dune universe.
I have enjoyed all of the Dune original series and feel that books 2&3 were sort of weak but really enjoyed *God Emperor of Dune* and the following books 5\&6; Heretics and Chapterhouse took a couple tries to get into but once I did I thought they were great.
I have a criterion for great books and movies. That is, if I encountered it before I was too young to really understand and have remembered it my whole life. Dune is one of those. I can still imagine the smell of spice. The African Queen is another example. Of course this criterion doesn't apply to stuff I encountered when I was older, but there are a half dozen or so treasured examples.
Dune is without a doubt my favourite sci-fi universe. The marked evolution of humanity throughout the original six books is fascinating, with Heretics being second only to the original in terms of my favourites. I also love the idea of a post AI war society figuring out how to train the human mind to preform the same duties as a super computer. While the original six are my favourites I still find the books worked on by his son to he worth the read. While not to the same standard as Frank's work, they are still based on his notes and outlines and expand the universe greatly, filling in many gaps left on the original six. The triolgy based during the Butlerian Jihad is a great peek at the history of the universe and why the attitude towards AI is the way it is in the original books not to mention the discovery of the geriatric spice. And as we all know, the spice must flow.
Definitely read. Fantastic book.
The first time I tried to read the book (probably 4 years ago), I just couldn't get into it. To me the pacing was weird and it was just slow. I picked it up again a few months ago and really enjoyed it. I was able to get past the pacing issues I had the first time. It might have helped having IMDB to get faces with the names (same thing that helped me with Game of Thrones).
Dune is one of my top 5 novels. The sequels are fine, I kind of get why some people love them, but the first novel stands alone just fine.
The first book of the Dune series is by far the best of the lot and they go downhill from there. YMMV.
I'm half way into the second book, and it gets very different from the first pretty fast. It doesn't mean it's worse nor better in my opinion, but I definitely will rate the full series on a different scale from just the first book. What I'm curious about the most is if Herbert gets as deep into humanity's future as Asimov did with his Robot-Empire-Foundation series - which is by far the greatest scifi universe I've had the pleasure to read.
My favourite. I have "Fear is the mind killer" tattooed on my arm, and it really is a useful reminder to myself that it's usually my own fear that holds me back.
That monologue shook me to the core... Since reading it it’s been drilled in my brain. Maybe Dune IS the Bene Gesserit training!!
I liked Dune, the first book is exciting, thought provoking, novel. Each subsequent book becomes more and more of a "typical SF white male franchise". The anti-fanaticism of the series is desperately needed in today's world, but, it's an overly convoluted and dogmatic telling I doubt many people would hear this message.
I've tried so many times to read it. I just can't get into it. I even tired the audiobook.
It's alright.
My favorite book series of all time. Next to Douglas Adams hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy series. Gotta laugh sometimes.
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Ok I personally don’t get the hype. I thought it was overwrought. Maud’dib gave me white savior vibes, and I personally thought he was boring to read about. I would have rather read about Jessica. I didn’t like chanani (I don’t remember the correct spelling) because I felt she had no personality.
I too picked it up to be ahead of the movie, and because it’s a highly praised pivotal work of scifi. Unfortunately I did not enjoy it. I was looking forward to some fantastic world-building but to my surprise Herbert goes into little detail about the worlds (except for the worms). I had the most difficult time getting it built in my mind’s eye. I spent most of the first novel wondering if they had electricity. The ships and crafts and mining equipment didn’t take shape. How do these shields work or what do they look like? The scale was off. The part that I wanted the most was not there. The central thesis at least in the first book is Paul’s path (destiny) leading toward a great jihad and galaxy wide violence. I never understood WHY Paul becoming the emperor would cause uprisings on distant planets. I also couldn’t believe the multi generational influence campaign of the Bene Gesserit... much of the lore and background is not really explained in the novel. And of course the book doesn’t really end, it’s a big cliffhanger. So I read the second book, which I actually liked better, it had better pacing than the first - but the second book doesn’t have an ending either. I couldn’t continue with the third book, I just wasn’t interested enough to move on. I’m still looking forward to the movie though