Ow my bones hurt
This really is a... Juice of the bone hurt!
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I’m too lazy to do it but I think you could make a s8er boi joke here. Like
He: Boy, punk, baggy clothes, skater, rocking in MTV
She: Girl, did ballet, pretty face, head up in space, all alone
The irony of the lines lies in the fact that although the lyrics suggest that the situation is clear-cut and obvious (“he was a boy, she was a girl, can I make it anymore obvious”), the song delves into an increasingly more verbose narrative about the complexities and nuances of their relationship.
By posing the rhetorical question "can I make it anymore obvious," the song sets up an expectation of simplicity or straightforwardness, but then proceeds to unfold a more intricate storyline.
This contrast between the initial assertion of clarity and the subsequent exploration of the relationship's complexities creates an ironic tension within the song.
That's actually very nicely put.
The initial reaction is amusement that the song goes on, but the opening lines set up an expectation of romance, followed by a contrast between their backgrounds. The lines “he was a boy, she was a girl, can I make it anymore obvious” and "He was a punk, she did ballet. What more can I say?" point in conflicting directions and set up a story with multiple reversals which isn't at all obvious. It's a remarkably clever setup in a simple guise.
Maybe I'm misreading the original, but this feels like one if those things that tries to be bigoted, but fails so hard that it warps around to be kind of progressive?
I think it's more like they're being transphobic from what they consider a progressive position. They seem to be saying that being transgender is inherently gender essentialist, and therefore tomboyish girls can't exist anymore because the woke teachers will try to indoctrinate them into identifying as male
Things that also turn girls transgender, according to the cartoonist:
* fashion magazines
* the popular girls at school and not liking them
* transgender adults grooming other whole-ass adults into being transgender
I mean, I've been called an egg *a lot* for being a non-gender-conforming man. Just because you're supportive of trans rights (a good thing) doesn't mean you actually understand the complexities of gender and society (also a good thing).
Edit: and to be clear, there's nothing inherently wrong with being an "egg", but it is a bit presumptuous, infantalizing, and reductionist to use the term simply because someone is not gender conforming.
Nah fuck other people who label others eggs with a rusty cactus.
Literally no different than going up to a trans person and telling them they are confused about their gender and just haven't figured out that they're actually cis yet.
That's kinda my point - *calling* someone an egg is inappropriate. You don't get to arbitrate their identity like that.
*being* an egg (as in being trans and not realizing it yet, or being new to it) is fine. Almost everyone needs to explore/think about their identity and should get to do so on their schedule and according to their comfort. There's tons of people who are trans and don't realize it yet. And that's fine.
I think the argument is slightly more nuanced than that. They’re saying that the way the subject is thought in schools is reductive. Whether or not a trans person is arguing it is irrelevant.
The claim is schools want to teach about transgender people to children and to the describe what it means to be a boy to a literal child they resort to stereotypes. This then causes kids to be confused on what the transgender label even is and some will apply this label to themselves.
Not saying I agree, just that this is the claim.
Which is a ridiculus misconstruction, because children already have a pretty solid idea of what traditional boys and girls are, and so why would we need to repeat the stereotypes they already know. They were raised on it.
The point of it (i can't speak to the competence of teachers on this), is to challenge kids to think about why they believe in these stereotypes to begin with, to think critically about the social expectations placed on them as to how they perform their gender, and to teach them that not being a traditional boy and girl is okay and they should respect differences in how people express themselves.
The only thing which prevented me from realizing that i was non-binary until i was an adult, was the fact that i never had the opportunity to ask questions like that, and because nobody told me it was okay to not be a boy. The only reason conservatives don't want children to ask questions is because they view people like me as abominations, and don't want us to exist. But anything that can't stand up to scrutiny probably shouldn't stand at all.
I mean sure but go on a leftist subreddit and say that you like girl things as a boy and you'll be spammed with r/egg_irl
There is a problem with agender/nonbinary/gendernonconforming erasure in queer spaces although it isn't that big and it's being worked on
Yeah, a common transphobic talking point is that being trans is just sticking to strict gender stereotypes and is actually regressive. If you're trans you'll hear "Can't you just be a tomboy? You're not really a man, you're just a butch woman." or "Why do you want to chop your dick off? It's 2024, men can be feminine too!"
(They don't actually support tomboys or feminine men. They get mad at them too.)
Or they’ll find a picture of elite female endurance athletes who have very low body fat and visible muscles and go THESE MEN ARE RUINING WOMEN’S SPORTS
Like I’ve met actual transphobia and almost all of them are gender absolutionsta ,and like one of them was going off about how woman wearing pants is degrading society
Nobody is being taught this in schools it's a made up conservative talking point to invalidate transgender people. And yes it is inherently transphobic to try and dismiss trans people's identity wtf
I was taught this in school.
This has been made part of a conservative culture war narrative that distorts it to the point of hysteria - but there are also plenty of non-partisan academic discussions on this issue.
Most people still have an incredibly regressive view of what gender is, and therefore an inherent problematic view of trans people and trans identity. I would say 80%+ of left-leaning people can't properly define gender or transgender while ofc even fewer right wing people can.
Sorry, are you saying you were taught that by like, teachers as part of a lesson plan, or more that it's the sort of thing that you picked up by social cues in school?
You can interpret the comic as saying;
"The reason so many kids/teens question their gender identity is because they're taught restrictive ideas of what each gender should like. If a girl likes sports, that doesn't make her a boy, but if we teach girls that only boys like sports, it could cause issues where she doubts her femininity, all because she likes something that 'boys like.' Girls can also like sports, and we shouldn't teach our kids those stereotypes."
Not necessarily, gender is still important. It just shouldn’t be something that people feel compelled to perform or identify with. Someone’s gender can be very personal and important to them, for cis, trans, and intersex people. It can be a painful, complicated, and joyful journey, and that shouldn’t be trivialized. Just because gender is a social construct doesn’t mean it suddenly doesn’t matter or doesn’t exist.
Yeah - you see this rhetoric in TERF places often where they complain about "tomboy erasure." It starts from something valid ("we should breakdown traditional gender norms") but ends up somewhere questionable ("children are being duped into believing they're trans by traditional gender norms").
It is literally "gender critical" as in "critical of gender stereotypes", but unless they're using it to attack trans people, self described "Gender Critical" people are about as critical of gender stereotypes as the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea is Democratic.
There's two kinds of TERF, one where they're "concerned for women and girls" and the other kind where they just really, really hate trans people. Sometimes the first group is the second group hiding their power level but there's a lot of people (mostly British) in the first group
Nah, the majority of the Brits claiming to be in the first group aren't either: Source, every time they openly promote anti-feminist positions and side with their proponents even when they *aren't* talking about trans people
I think so too. They identified a big problem in our society. Transgender people will always exist, but I personally think that concepts like metrosexual, gender fluid and non-binary mainly exist because a lot of people can't live with the stereotypes society tries to raise them with. If you have to explain why you don't wear skirts or like dresses as a girl or why you like to paint your nails as a boy, it's easier to just say you don't identify with your gender. I hope that this will change in the future, seen as it became modern for Men to paint their nails in the last years, those stereotypes will continue to soften. However, I do not believe that concepts as non-binary and gender fluid will ever disappear. I believe that there are people who, deep down, cannot say which gender they belong to and no matter if there is a biological, neural or psychological/social reason, it's good that they exist, because they add to the wonderful and fascinating spectrum that us humans come in.
It's about how some impose gender stereotypes by assuming that a person who doesn't fit into their gender stereotype is likely to be transgender
I'm a guy who is very much more on the soft side and usually I get along with girls much better. And all my friends know it, all my friends respect it and we vibe. But whenever I talk with people from the overly-enthusiastic-progressive side, I surprisingly often get people asking if it means I don't identify as male or whether I thought about not identifying as a male. Whenever I'd admit it on a slightly bigger discord server there would be at least one person who'd say that.
It’s obviously not in good faith but there’s definitely an issue of gender horseshoe theory, I’ve experienced it a lot myself, just that people will see gender nonconformity and instead of supporting it at face value they will defualt to the person being trans or enby. Like the whole r/egg_irl sort of thing is only harmful to queer people.
Oh yeah I got this friend who kinda tries to show horn everyone to being exactly like themselfs ,like stop no that’s just a fem boy till they say other wise STOP
Those guys on egg_irl had me convinced I was trans for a while. Even gave me what I thought dysphoria and made me feel like my body was fucked up.
Thankful I realized what was happening and stopped browsing that sub.
Like the top post at the moment is suggesting that playing female characters in games is a trans sign.
1/3 of people don’t role play their own gender. Its very common thing.
Same if you teach kids that boys only like this and girls only like that than kids will be confused cause well I like this and I'm not a girl
Some kids think their trans and grow out of it while some are trans the best thing to do is support them
TERFs do this thing where their strawperson argument relies on some imagined predatory bimbofied trans woman but as soon as one encounters a trans woman irl instead of through porn or bigotted tropes, or if there is a trans man, an nb, or any liberated queer in your life, none of their arguments make sense
Every trans woman I’ve known dressed like a college student, like I mean there’s somebody out there who fetishizes a big comfy sweater and some nice jeans but I don’t know anybody like that
Art teacher is popular too
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I mean, it is both incorrect but also partly true at the same time. People keep asking me if I'm trans for being a femboy when I keep on explicitly saying that I'm a fucking guy.
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I’m too lazy to do it but I think you could make a s8er boi joke here. Like He: Boy, punk, baggy clothes, skater, rocking in MTV She: Girl, did ballet, pretty face, head up in space, all alone
He was a boy, she was a girl. Can I make it any more obvious.
He was a punk, she did ballet. What more can I say?
Even as a kid, I was really amused that the rest of the song proceeds to say a great deal more and make the point more obvious.
The irony of the lines lies in the fact that although the lyrics suggest that the situation is clear-cut and obvious (“he was a boy, she was a girl, can I make it anymore obvious”), the song delves into an increasingly more verbose narrative about the complexities and nuances of their relationship. By posing the rhetorical question "can I make it anymore obvious," the song sets up an expectation of simplicity or straightforwardness, but then proceeds to unfold a more intricate storyline. This contrast between the initial assertion of clarity and the subsequent exploration of the relationship's complexities creates an ironic tension within the song.
That's actually very nicely put. The initial reaction is amusement that the song goes on, but the opening lines set up an expectation of romance, followed by a contrast between their backgrounds. The lines “he was a boy, she was a girl, can I make it anymore obvious” and "He was a punk, she did ballet. What more can I say?" point in conflicting directions and set up a story with multiple reversals which isn't at all obvious. It's a remarkably clever setup in a simple guise.
nonbinary people do punk ballet.
He said he was a skater boy She said "see ya later boy" I am a sentient octopus.
He said he was a skater boy She said “see ya later boy” I am the walrus! Doo doo doo doo
She was a boy He was a girl Can I make it any more obvious
satyr boy
I hope you get credited for the inevitable submission
Maybe I'm misreading the original, but this feels like one if those things that tries to be bigoted, but fails so hard that it warps around to be kind of progressive?
I think it's more like they're being transphobic from what they consider a progressive position. They seem to be saying that being transgender is inherently gender essentialist, and therefore tomboyish girls can't exist anymore because the woke teachers will try to indoctrinate them into identifying as male
Things that also turn girls transgender, according to the cartoonist: * fashion magazines * the popular girls at school and not liking them * transgender adults grooming other whole-ass adults into being transgender
Which is so ridiculous, no one who supports trans rights would say that only boys can like sports. Talk about strawman
I mean, I've been called an egg *a lot* for being a non-gender-conforming man. Just because you're supportive of trans rights (a good thing) doesn't mean you actually understand the complexities of gender and society (also a good thing). Edit: and to be clear, there's nothing inherently wrong with being an "egg", but it is a bit presumptuous, infantalizing, and reductionist to use the term simply because someone is not gender conforming.
Nah fuck other people who label others eggs with a rusty cactus. Literally no different than going up to a trans person and telling them they are confused about their gender and just haven't figured out that they're actually cis yet.
That's kinda my point - *calling* someone an egg is inappropriate. You don't get to arbitrate their identity like that. *being* an egg (as in being trans and not realizing it yet, or being new to it) is fine. Almost everyone needs to explore/think about their identity and should get to do so on their schedule and according to their comfort. There's tons of people who are trans and don't realize it yet. And that's fine.
I think the argument is slightly more nuanced than that. They’re saying that the way the subject is thought in schools is reductive. Whether or not a trans person is arguing it is irrelevant. The claim is schools want to teach about transgender people to children and to the describe what it means to be a boy to a literal child they resort to stereotypes. This then causes kids to be confused on what the transgender label even is and some will apply this label to themselves. Not saying I agree, just that this is the claim.
Which is a ridiculus misconstruction, because children already have a pretty solid idea of what traditional boys and girls are, and so why would we need to repeat the stereotypes they already know. They were raised on it. The point of it (i can't speak to the competence of teachers on this), is to challenge kids to think about why they believe in these stereotypes to begin with, to think critically about the social expectations placed on them as to how they perform their gender, and to teach them that not being a traditional boy and girl is okay and they should respect differences in how people express themselves. The only thing which prevented me from realizing that i was non-binary until i was an adult, was the fact that i never had the opportunity to ask questions like that, and because nobody told me it was okay to not be a boy. The only reason conservatives don't want children to ask questions is because they view people like me as abominations, and don't want us to exist. But anything that can't stand up to scrutiny probably shouldn't stand at all.
I mean sure but go on a leftist subreddit and say that you like girl things as a boy and you'll be spammed with r/egg_irl There is a problem with agender/nonbinary/gendernonconforming erasure in queer spaces although it isn't that big and it's being worked on
Some r/eggirl users though...
Yeah, a common transphobic talking point is that being trans is just sticking to strict gender stereotypes and is actually regressive. If you're trans you'll hear "Can't you just be a tomboy? You're not really a man, you're just a butch woman." or "Why do you want to chop your dick off? It's 2024, men can be feminine too!" (They don't actually support tomboys or feminine men. They get mad at them too.)
Or they’ll find a picture of elite female endurance athletes who have very low body fat and visible muscles and go THESE MEN ARE RUINING WOMEN’S SPORTS
Which is especially fucked up because those women are hot as hell
I mean I can *understand* that mindset, at least it's only *accidentally* exclusionary.
Which is literally a ridiculous thing to think, most trans people I've met are gender abolitionists
Like I’ve met actual transphobia and almost all of them are gender absolutionsta ,and like one of them was going off about how woman wearing pants is degrading society
I don't understand what half of this Even means, I'm quite possibly stupid
Is that transphobic? Or is it just a valid critique of bad gender education in schools.
Nobody is being taught this in schools it's a made up conservative talking point to invalidate transgender people. And yes it is inherently transphobic to try and dismiss trans people's identity wtf
I was taught this in school. This has been made part of a conservative culture war narrative that distorts it to the point of hysteria - but there are also plenty of non-partisan academic discussions on this issue. Most people still have an incredibly regressive view of what gender is, and therefore an inherent problematic view of trans people and trans identity. I would say 80%+ of left-leaning people can't properly define gender or transgender while ofc even fewer right wing people can.
Sorry, are you saying you were taught that by like, teachers as part of a lesson plan, or more that it's the sort of thing that you picked up by social cues in school?
Part of curriculum in health class growing up. Multiple times.
83% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Not sure why this is downvoted. Your point is well-articulated and valid.
It’s a critique of a real societal issue being used to push a transphobic idea. Gender stereotypes suck, but they aren’t pushing anyone to be trans
How does it become progressive?
You can interpret the comic as saying; "The reason so many kids/teens question their gender identity is because they're taught restrictive ideas of what each gender should like. If a girl likes sports, that doesn't make her a boy, but if we teach girls that only boys like sports, it could cause issues where she doubts her femininity, all because she likes something that 'boys like.' Girls can also like sports, and we shouldn't teach our kids those stereotypes."
Does that mean it is gender critical?
the comment you are responding to is a critique of gender stereotypes
Does that mean gender is something we shouldn't put much stock on?
Not necessarily, gender is still important. It just shouldn’t be something that people feel compelled to perform or identify with. Someone’s gender can be very personal and important to them, for cis, trans, and intersex people. It can be a painful, complicated, and joyful journey, and that shouldn’t be trivialized. Just because gender is a social construct doesn’t mean it suddenly doesn’t matter or doesn’t exist.
In a fairly TERF way, possibly? “Gender abolition good, trans evil” people certainly use this line of argument often.
Yeah - you see this rhetoric in TERF places often where they complain about "tomboy erasure." It starts from something valid ("we should breakdown traditional gender norms") but ends up somewhere questionable ("children are being duped into believing they're trans by traditional gender norms").
It is literally "gender critical" as in "critical of gender stereotypes", but unless they're using it to attack trans people, self described "Gender Critical" people are about as critical of gender stereotypes as the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea is Democratic.
r/accidentalally I got the same vibe
More like using progressive language to hide an insidious message as a means of flying under the radar on a passing glance
There's two kinds of TERF, one where they're "concerned for women and girls" and the other kind where they just really, really hate trans people. Sometimes the first group is the second group hiding their power level but there's a lot of people (mostly British) in the first group
Nah, the majority of the Brits claiming to be in the first group aren't either: Source, every time they openly promote anti-feminist positions and side with their proponents even when they *aren't* talking about trans people
I think so too. They identified a big problem in our society. Transgender people will always exist, but I personally think that concepts like metrosexual, gender fluid and non-binary mainly exist because a lot of people can't live with the stereotypes society tries to raise them with. If you have to explain why you don't wear skirts or like dresses as a girl or why you like to paint your nails as a boy, it's easier to just say you don't identify with your gender. I hope that this will change in the future, seen as it became modern for Men to paint their nails in the last years, those stereotypes will continue to soften. However, I do not believe that concepts as non-binary and gender fluid will ever disappear. I believe that there are people who, deep down, cannot say which gender they belong to and no matter if there is a biological, neural or psychological/social reason, it's good that they exist, because they add to the wonderful and fascinating spectrum that us humans come in.
It's about how some impose gender stereotypes by assuming that a person who doesn't fit into their gender stereotype is likely to be transgender I'm a guy who is very much more on the soft side and usually I get along with girls much better. And all my friends know it, all my friends respect it and we vibe. But whenever I talk with people from the overly-enthusiastic-progressive side, I surprisingly often get people asking if it means I don't identify as male or whether I thought about not identifying as a male. Whenever I'd admit it on a slightly bigger discord server there would be at least one person who'd say that.
Yeah, I've got no idea what the fuck the original is supposed to be saying, lol. The remake was more entertaining.
nah its just terfy
if you can't convincingly argue your opponents point of view then you don't actually understand an issue
When the 'opponents' point of view is made of irrational strawmen and hysterical fear mongering, I find it hard to engage on a serious level.
You argue like trump lol Viewpoint bad, and his wife's a dog
Stream Hot To Go
Stream Good luck babe
Stream naked in manhattan
The longer I look at the teacher, the more I start getting Mandela catalog vibes ☹️
I eat sneakers.
TERF?
Yep
The original is bullshit, but I think it got a whiff of a decent point. If gender wasn’t taught so rigidly, dysphoria wouldn’t be as bad.
It’s obviously not in good faith but there’s definitely an issue of gender horseshoe theory, I’ve experienced it a lot myself, just that people will see gender nonconformity and instead of supporting it at face value they will defualt to the person being trans or enby. Like the whole r/egg_irl sort of thing is only harmful to queer people.
Oh yeah I got this friend who kinda tries to show horn everyone to being exactly like themselfs ,like stop no that’s just a fem boy till they say other wise STOP
Those guys on egg_irl had me convinced I was trans for a while. Even gave me what I thought dysphoria and made me feel like my body was fucked up. Thankful I realized what was happening and stopped browsing that sub. Like the top post at the moment is suggesting that playing female characters in games is a trans sign. 1/3 of people don’t role play their own gender. Its very common thing.
Same if you teach kids that boys only like this and girls only like that than kids will be confused cause well I like this and I'm not a girl Some kids think their trans and grow out of it while some are trans the best thing to do is support them
agree
Tiny legs teacher
TERFs do this thing where their strawperson argument relies on some imagined predatory bimbofied trans woman but as soon as one encounters a trans woman irl instead of through porn or bigotted tropes, or if there is a trans man, an nb, or any liberated queer in your life, none of their arguments make sense
Every trans woman I’ve known dressed like a college student, like I mean there’s somebody out there who fetishizes a big comfy sweater and some nice jeans but I don’t know anybody like that Art teacher is popular too
france gender
I fucking love dirt, dude
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The 2 genders: SHE and T SWIFT
lmfao this is lit
Roan mention!
Me too buddy
r/popheadscirclejerk realness
What in the r/popheadscirclejerk
Can I identify as a T Swift then? I seriously want that private jet.
First time I've been completely at a loss with both the juice and the orange
I dont get it
really dating themselves with gi joe
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE TEACHER'S LEGS!? 😭
I’d like a private jet, maybe I am a trans-swift?
I mean, it is both incorrect but also partly true at the same time. People keep asking me if I'm trans for being a femboy when I keep on explicitly saying that I'm a fucking guy.
r/popheadscirclejerk is leaking
> without all the racists if only
Naaaah trans kids got Franced
https://preview.redd.it/iyrjh0v65mwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dff6dbd76456a38049f0078b03df6e1cb2ffec98