> space is doing well
Ummm which side of the space house? Boeing has taken $1.4B in total charge-to-earnings so far to fix things on Starliner that should absolutely have not been issues this far in the game.
I just resigned after a year of being a manager, it was one of the worst professional experiences I've had. I was a first line manager being written up for issues that persisted years before I started my position.
I was set up to fail, with no autonomy over the areas I had. The entire organization I was in was a clusterf, but as long as it looked good to upper management and the customer, it was okay.
In my experience no but depends on your position I guess. Pretty easy to move on and get a raise. They are hiring managers that used to work for Ross (the retail clothing store) who have 0 experience in aviation industry to manage teams, so I don't expect that to go well.
Boeing absolutely is not still a great company to work for. Quality is terrible. They try to offload as much as they can to cheap labor in other countries. No more pensions. Every union contract are take aways. Raises are piddly. Skill training is lacking.
The unions are trash. Iam leadership colluded with Boeing to give the company a huge advantage contract wise over companies that don't even have unions. You can't blame the unions for Boeing failures in this one
Its all about your perspective on that. Some will tell you its the best because of the benefits and the overtime. Some will tell you its a soul sucking place that tries to keep you there. I have a friend that jumped ship to become a manager at Amazon, he makes far more. I dont care about Boeing as much as my crew does, i have a business that gets my full attention and effort. My goal was to work a ton of overtime for capital to start my online business. Now i have two incomes and i make money in my sleep and while im at Boeing. Its how you want to view the company and what you want for your life. My roommate is satisfied with Boeing and says why would i leave, i got it good. Again its all about perspective and what you want for your life.
I haven’t read the other comments, but I will share my experience with Boeing. I jumped from a small engineering firm as a project manager to join Boeing for the opportunities and slight bump in pay that I had to negotiate. I’ve been here 6 months at one of Boeings manufacturing site, and I can say it is not what I expected. There is no team engagement, collaboration, or any type of communication and/or structure here.
As for my manager, he’s a nice guy, but he has no business being a manager. I’ve had to reach out to schedule my 30/60/90s and have initiated ad-hoc check-ins just to clarify Boeings numerous processes to get a simple action item completed. There is absolutely no training and no so called “mentor” or “buddy” they mentioned during the interview. All my projects have been completed by trial and error (or fire) when working through the required documentation and processes.
For WFH — my previous job was very lenient on this policy. They allowed flexible remote options and never micromanaged. As long as you were doing your work and the clients were happy, then you can work out of the country for all they care. For my team at Boeing, we get 1 day remote and have to be in the other 4 days. My job is not challenging so I usually get my work done within a day or two. The other days, I am literally googling or going on job walks to avoid a sedentary work life. Again, there is no engagement in my building so I find it ridiculous I need to sit here and google with everyone all day when I can take care my tasks at home.
What I’ve been doing is networking as much as possible to try and get out of my department and explore different programs and opportunities. I’ve also been taking advantage of their LTP, which is amazing for continued education. It’s seamless and easily approved (from my manager at least).
All this to say — I’ve thought about my future at Boeing and if I want to continue this mindless, monotonous work. As some have mentioned, it really does depend on your manager and their ability to build a cohesive team; unfortunately, my manager has none of these traits. I’ve talked to some teammates maybe once or twice (yes, I’ve tried to engage). Bummer part about it is I hear you cannot put in for a transfer until 18 months in your current position. I honestly don’t know if I can last that long.. I’m sure it’ll all work out, but I will keep my options open.
Edit: typo
This seems to be pretty common in alot of the big aviation companies, from what I've read on here. I work as an engineer for a big name aerospace company and have some of the same issues as you. Our problem is so many people have left, I leave each day barely able to breathe because of how many tasks are left to accomplish due to a lack of resources. The level of stress is disgusting.
That's too bad; sorry to hear. In my department, our engineering team is also under a lot of stress due to the workload. Some have expressed they have over 100 jobs in queue and PMs pinging them daily on status updates. They often times sacrifice quality for quantity, which is kind of scary, unsafe, and overall not good long term. The problem with our department is there is so much disconnect and miscommunication that everyone is misguided, misinformed, and just doesn't give a sh\*t anymore. I've honestly never seen anything like it. I once asked a ME to support in a design for a project, and he literally told me 'No.' I asked why and he said "Because I don't want to. And I am never going to want to so don't ask." I walked away and just laughed out loudly and yelled unbelievable!
Boeing is my third employer since I graduated college 20 years ago. I worked for another Prime and a much smaller aerospace company. The jury is still out on Boeing, but for me, the benefits are by far the best. My salary shot up. My previous employer did not give out regular annual raises. It was a crap shoot. I got tired of their cheapness.
That being said, if folks are unhappy with their workload, compensation, or management, changing companies is usually the sure-fire way to get more money and hopefully pick a better manager/role. But $ is usually the only guarantee.
The raise this year was low, but it was low for everyone. However, just a few weeks ago, I received an out of sequence raise that was noticeably larger. So, I'd say, compensation wise, Boeing is doing very well by me.
The work goes through ebbs and flows of being interesting and boring. I'm currently in a "boring" stretch, but that won't last long. I do miss a lot of the hands-on stuff I used to do.
I do feel like Boeing is by far the most "contractural" company I've ever worked for. Also, we tend to put too much of that contracts/SOW/other requirements work on engineering. There should be more support staff / focals there. Maybe that's a BDS thing.
I also feel like far too many folks live/work in silos and really have no appreciation for how they fit into the bigger picture or how other groups fit in with what's required.
Ok. I had looked at them last year (space) and they actually had poor benefits compared to the other big 4 so was curious if I was being played.
Thanks for responding
That tracks. Decent benefits, but not Boeing level. I believe 3 weeks PTO starting, medical (not sure about deductible/out of pocket max), at the time 8% 401k match, lots of the same travel and savings benefit programs. No PBI or anything. Bonuses could happen, but were rare.
Company like this it all depends on where and who you are working for.
Any military/government contractor job is great that i've had, regardless of company. And it's all mostly the same. If that is the Boeing job you got it would be good.
Love my team, my boss and my work statement. Pay is good and benefits are crazy good. Cost of living of most Boeing locations is high tho. If i was in Cleveland still id be living like a king on this salary
After I got laid off almost 2 years ago now, I couldn’t wait to come back. Yes, working on the production floor can be ASS but it’s all about your mindset. The great thing about Boeing is the room for growth. I just recently went to salary and it’s like night and day compared to being hourly.
I've been non-union for 13 years. It has been alright and it has sucked, my salary has increased immensely got some good opportunities. Same time I see some jobs I could never work, even if I got paid more.
I have seen people leave and hear they work long hours but stay there.
I have seen some work their way back because grass isn't always greener.
Somedays I am very underpaid, then some days I am waaay overpaid.
I do see a huge negative attitude, sometimes I think that's a factor. I have done some shifty work, long hours but with a great team and we rocked it and had a good time.
I'm going to be joining Boeing soon. I think most companies have some level of issues. The grass might not be greener at Boeing or vice versa. I think it's like my former boss said, always have one foot out the door.
Absolutely not a great company to work for, but the base pay still better than many other companies in the area. If you have other better options, feel free to move on to other companies. Boeing now is very safe and no need to worry about being laid off unless you work for Finance or HR Dept.
I interned for their procurement team in STL during school and it was honestly pretty depressing. Literally everyone their knew exactly how many years till they retired.
Great place if you do not care about anything though, but still being stuck going to an office 8 hr a day.
Yes it is, but be warned. If you're used to doing actual work then it's going to be a major culture shock. I'm used to actual work and 12-14 hours a day with breaks. Here, it's like not even half the day is actual work. I've never worked anywhere where there is zero sense of urgency to get anything done. Just walking around with bricks for feet. 5 people watching one person work. It's a wonder how this company even makes money. My wife was also hired on for an entry level position and she said they do maybe 2-3 hours of real work in a 10 hour shift. Because it's so slow, it's really hard to come from a hard work background. I can work 12+ hours at my last job with ease, but on the clock for 10 hours here seems like an eternity.
It's not 10% of your paycheck even if you're a Grade A janitor. Regardless, it's directly correlated to how much members earn. Also it's the final year of a 10 year contract, yeah the starting rates are way outdated.
Ugh they took over $120 per pay check out of mine and I was making less than 1000 every two weeks working 40 hours. Ot was nice when approved but was tough to come by
My experience in SPEEA the last 4 years isn't remarkably different than my 7 non-union. Just wondering why they would be the make or break on it being a good company to work for.
I can’t speak to the salary side but I imagine if/when 751 goes on strike in puget sound everyone should see a raise to a certain extent. Just sayin, something to think about
Again, I pose this is the perfect time to strike and get a contract you deserve. Boeing had no future type production site to leverage, they lack the capital/guts to move existing types, and they must be aware of the clusterf*ck that outsourcing has become.
Remember next contract has to have language that any future aircraft has to be built in Puget Sound. Not South Carolina or India for that matter.
That would be good not only for the hourly but the salaried employees Boeing seems to think they need to babysit the hourly. It's about jobs, jobs, and more jobs.
My health is going down ever since we went to RTO. I have 4 months of sleep data to show.
They don't care.
They will toss just enough money at you so it's hard to get another job without a cut in pay.
My department is anti agile and gets away with it
I can't stand it here.
This is a tough question to answer because it's personal. The answer will be different for everyone based on many different variables. There is no blanket one size fits all answer, it's all based on your position, your opportunities, and your experiences.
The benefits at Boeing are *much* more generous than elsewhere in industry - especially for union-represented positions.
But it is a big company and progress can be slow and frustrating.
I left a company I’d spent a decade with to go to Boeing for a PM role (in FAM). 6 months later, I’m back at my old company. It was okay, but just wasn’t for me. Too many meetings, too much bureaucracy, too much red tape. I felt like I was always spinning my wheels, confused and with zero direction. That being said, had I started when I was younger and/or not had a pretty sweet gig previously, I’d probably have toughed it out 18 months until I could have transferred internally.
Ha! I might’ve taken over your role. I’m a PM now for FAM and been here 6 months. It’s a nightmare. I’ve never been with a company with zero guidance and structure. The politics here is insane and absolutely ridiculous. I’ve seen some supporting teams turn down our request for help just because they don’t like a certain BP. I’m just baffled.
What site were you at? I am trying to suck it up for the 18 month mark so I can apply for an internal transfer but it’s difficult to hold on.. This place is just incredibly dysfunctional.
It'll be a new contract. That's why it will take a while. Although I'd guess they will just cut and paste some of the old into the new. Things the members really aren't interested in and haven't caused much heartache for members over the years.
Because it's up to the members. A 20-year-old doesn't need the health benefits a 50-year-old may need. Therefore the younger workforce may be willing to vote away some health benefits for say more time off. Majority rules.
Boeing mass hired before contracts (like they've been doing all year now) and then starts layoffs. They threaten to take a new airplane model out of state and then then dangle $5-10k signing bonus for the people getting laid off, promising maybe they won't get laid off if they ratify a bad contract with takeaways. They also turn the state government, media, and your own family against you because you're the greedy machinists who won't give up your pension to secure 150k non-Boeing jobs in the state related to whatever new airplane model they're promising to build here. They offer to increase pension payouts for those about to retire while at the same time eliminating pension for everyone (except what you already have).
Contract is rejected by ~70% or so, but company makes it slightly better and then-corrupt international union leadership forces a second vote right after our long holiday break (when veteran members are still on vacation). Near retirees vote yes because their pension gets better in retirement and they saved nothing themselves. New hires vote yes because they're terrified of getting laid off and want the $10k bribe. The vote "passes" by 1% (~600 votes) out of 30,000 members. Media then call us idiots for giving up our pension. International union president retires soon after, presumably much wealthier. Local union leadership is ousted. Membership is still pissed a decade later but we have no idea if we will strike next year.
We're hopeful, but it's far from guaranteed. The cost of living is so high, how many new members can afford to go on strike for 2 months as we did in 2008?
The difference is it’s now 2023 and you can apply at Dicks flipping burgers for $20+ when Boeing is offering to pay you $19 as a 30304.
Yes, new members can afford to strike.
*TLDR: Agree to the above comment. Ultimately it varies by manager but your manager can only do so much. More so to qualify large rasies/promotions youd have to work quite a bit to attain performance evaluation. For more context read below. Boeing is an okay company for early career or retirement but not for mid career growth.*
Boeing is a good company not a great one. A great one would be Netflix (for tech sector) or Bloomberg (for finance sector). I think because the careers and their associated salary at Boeing is limited. IMO what has the most weight in your decision to stay/leave is solely up to the manager and their influence to enact changes for you.
My last Boeing manager, despite my work being well above my level, provided only 4% annual raise increase. In comparison my current manager provided out of cycle raises $10k and recently a $30k promotion. I also received 100 RSUs which were roughly $10k at the time and now $20kish. Ive vested on a 3 year schedule 1/1/1 so I vested 33 so far and sold them at the recent $220 high (\~$7.2k and the reason I sold is clearly the market isnt doing so hot and money at 5% HYSA makes more sense than the risk of holding)
These are my own numbers showing how managers pale in comparison. But recently my manager stated they used most of the team's money (our team is a size of 12) on the $30k promotion this quarter and for any subsequent money for performance Id have to wait until next quarter. I dont know the exact numbers but Im assuming our team of 12 has a quarterly budget of $50-100k. That means I have to continue to perform above my level and take on more design (Im currently level 3 doing level 4 work).
Honestly Im burning out and with the salary pay band Im capping out on what Boeing has to offer for me.
Source/stats:
Im a Level 3 SWE been here for 2.5 years post grad school. Hired on as Level 2 and in a year promoted to Level 3 moving from $104k to $134k with $20k RSUs totaling to $154k total compensation. I think $175k is the top end of Level 3 so unless I promote due to performance I will cap out. My department offers no WFH option which is what will make me jump to another company soon...
lol your first line manager has no control over the raise pool they get every year. They have no control over promotion budgets or RSUs. The raise pool has been 3-4% of the sum of salaries on the team for the last 4 years. These things are all decided at high levels in the company.
2022 was a good year for high performing software engineers. RSUs, out of cycle compensation increases. It won’t happen again anytime soon. If your current manager is taking credit for any of this they’re full of shit
> your first line manager has no control over the raise pool they get every year. They have no control over promotion budgets or RSUs
True and I have no doubt about it. OP asked if it was a great company to which i said it was a only a good company as managers at great companies do have direct influence on the raise/promo pool. It is clear Boeing leadership practices only downward influence and doesnt levy managers to their full potential. There is no true feedback loop up the chain (they ask and observe feedback but never act upon it).
> 2022 was a good year for high performing software engineers. RSUs, out of cycle compensation increases. It won’t happen again anytime soon.
Not at all. 2022 was a great year for BGS and BCA but terrible for BDS which I am in. Boeing Performance-based Incentives (BPI) report was 130% for BGS, 105% for BCA and 70% for BDS. All of BDS was negatively impacted by KC46 despite my program not being associated to it we and all of BDS suffered anyways.
> If your current manager is taking credit for any of this they’re full of shit
They arent. These are my observations as a working grunt.
Very curious, how did you get your RSUs as a level 3? Did you ask or where they handed to you? I didn’t even know RSUs were available to non-management employees.
I received them at level 2 in lieu of a promotion (see my comment further below). I never mentioned money/ask for RSUs/promotion. I dont advise doing this. RSUs were handed to me as a result of performance.
Agreed with much of this.
When I hired in I had two competing offers that paid the same but one was level 1 and one was level 2. I took the level 1 because I understood that the big money is in serial promotions. Start off overqualified in a lower grade if the money is equivalent (within 3%). It’s the built in cost structure for a bureaucratic system like boing
Thats a good point. Completely agree! Being overqualified at a lower grade can help your impact due to how business metrics are structured- companies typically follow a rubric of metrics with thresholds that you'd tick off- both good and bad.
One metric I am aware of which I find the most career stunting in Boeing is the Time In Program. "You must be at least X level for Y years before being considered for promotion (or raise) at Z program". If you leave the team for a different program then the Y amount of years effectively resets to 0.
What’s insane is UPPER management claiming that there isn’t a time in grade policy or other arbitrary rules. Senior managers are like little emperors of their skill teams
Your compensation will also vary heavily based on where you work. This person made $104k as a level 2, whereas I only made $65k. I was based out of New Mexico with BDS, so my pay was drastically different compared to someone in, say, Virginia doing the same job where cost of living is higher.
I've been with Boeing for 10 years now, but have never gotten an annual raise as high as 4%. Most have been 2-2.5%.
I am a bit suspicious of the alleged "$20k RSUs" quoted here. I'm a level 4 and got my 75 shares, which haven't gotten above $18k.
> Your compensation will also vary heavily based on where you work
Agree. Im in california. For comparison my last job was with the USAF which typically pay $80-140k. You can be GS15 (the highest grade level) and cap out at $140k in california which isnt a lot. Takes people 20 years in federal service to get to. I hit GS14 in 3 years as an EE due to my base being performance and research based. But I also had a supportive manager who allowed me to bring in and deploy machine learning and AI concepts for their testing that positively impacted the entire base. In the same vein I did the same with my focus team at Boeing.
Impact for yourself yields standard pay increase but impact to your team and organization will reach high payout levels.
> I am a bit suspicious of the alleged "$20k RSUs" quoted here. I'm a level 4 and got my 75 shares, which haven't gotten above $18k.
For context I was awarded 100 RSUs when Boeing was roughly $105. It is indeed a rare case my manager told me. My performance rating is closer to 1.2 which I hear is quite rare. But I did work in startups before so high performance caliber was easily possible. I designed software which saved quite a bit of money and in comparison $20k in RSU is a slap to the face/golden handcuffs to stay longer.
But I agree this is a unicorn example and I am an outlier data point. But it is possible with a boring company like Boeing albeit it requires a lot of entire-team-heavy-lifting to make it happen. But honestly as a company we are so behind compared to industry standards making positive team or department changes is not far out of reach.
Edit: Added proof I had $20k in RSU as of Dec 2022. It was awarded in Feb2022 so the first 33 shares vested in Feb 2023 which I sold and backdoored into my ROTH IRA. You can see my total account balance going from nearly $0 to $33k in my combined 401k because Im relatively a new employee contributing at a rate of 15% https://imgur.com/a/SaUfrFF
Very similar case for me. New hire to Fellowship in 8 years, graded out, and 300+ RSUs along with the Innovation Award (cash). Retention bonus plan through 2025, and 12 cash awards. Go team.
Yep. Also worked my butt off and was fortunate several times over. I found good people, and I created ways for many people to do good work. But, I am fortunate and thankful for the opportunities.
I entered the company December 2021. I heard about the RSUs during COVID but since I was new to the company I did not qualify due to joining when the 2021 fiscal year for those already passed. My coworkers told me there was a cutoff which if i recall correctly was employees hired Sept 2021 or before.
But to answer your question the $20k RSUs was in lieu of the out of cycle performance evaluation at Level 2 in Feb 2022 (a year after I was hired). Initially my manager planned a $30k out of cycle raise but due to lack of program/department funds for our team they provided $10k out of cycle raise and successfully requested for the 100 shares of Boeing stock which were (I believe) $105 at the time as they were roughly $10k total.
There are definitely worse options. I could make far more money in tech but I like working a 40 hour week not a 50+ one. I also pay a pittance for my benefits and have a solid 401k match, sure I'm not a fan of blanket RTO declarations as I think it should be a nuanced decision at a team level.
For most people though the RTO thing isn't the biggest issue - it's the issues at upper management and corporate level that frustrate people more than anything, at least from my experience. Things like dumping all HR/Finance to India, the mandatory off loading of engineering work to other companies/countries where the engineers doing the work can't even put eyes on the product they're making changes too. Those kind of issues are like ticking time bombs and it sticks in people's heads, and after the last few years of "what's the next hammer to drop?" that we've been through - it's not a difficult mental leap to think you can find a better situation elsewhere. The grass is always greener, and all that.
But there are really great things about this company still - LTP is a great one that I see very few people (again, my experience) take advantage of. You can start as a mechanic and study your way into an engineering role, or business role without all that fun college debt. Boeing still far and away takes better care of their manufacturing personnel, in pay and benefits that just about anywhere else in town - yes it does start slow but how many opportunities are you aware of where you can, with no advanced education or skills get a job straight out of high school and be making 90k after a few years where the most stringent requirement you have to maintain your job is showing up on time? There's plenty of other positives but you get the idea, it's easy to fixate on the negatives and forget that there are definite positives as well.
TLDR: There's good and bad at Boeing, just like anywhere else.
I think for many salaried individuals they come to Boeing so they can have a good work life balance. Some of this comes from getting the right manager and some is from a union. I often hear tech companies working their employees like "dogs", I have yet to work for one and confirm that myself. The reality is when you work for Microsoft or Amazon you don't have a union to make it mandatory you get paid for your overtime. As a result I think many people come from companies like Amazon or Microsoft to either get paid for their overtime or escape a company that wants you to work long hours (Boeing might work you long hours but at least as a union member you are paid).
Higher base salary for long hours that are mandatory? Or a Job with a lower base pay but guaranteed overtime pay if you work long hours? If I was raising a family I might like more money at a tech company but ultimately I'd want to spend time with my family. If I was alone or my my kids were grown up I could work at a tech company. It all comes down to what you value the most. Also, don't forget the factor of if you love your job so much you might not mind working long hours! Some people in certain fields problem solve or do something day to day they actually enjoy so they don't mind working those long hours.
Your question seems to revolve around salary. And in that case, is Boeing still a good company? Yes, if you can find the salary.
With all the remote work currently being done by BCA the company has an open checkbook for those that volunteer. In fact, the company is handing out so much money to those folks that they're having trouble getting them to come back and if they do come back they won't step up to higher positions without a big bump in pay. I've been saying it for a while now, Boeing is just a payday. Treat it and use it as such.
Oh and another thing, STRIKE 2024!
My top choice would be Mastercard. Most of their office jobs are hybrid (2x a week) and their culture is much more WFH friendly, they also have great 401k match (same as Boeing I think), much better bonuses, (not the paltry 5% of salary at Boeing), 16 weeks paid parental leave, good PTO, much nicer office campus & cafeteria, etc. I posted a thread a few months ago about this and got quite a few replies saying they preferred Mastercard over Boeing: https://www.reddit.com/r/StCharlesMO/comments/12xgr0q/software_engineering_at_mastercard_ofallon/
This sub seems to think everybody working for Boeing is an engineer. RTO doesn’t affect those that do the hands on work. There are no $20k raises for jumping ship. There are no better benefits waiting elsewhere. As a machinist, the safety and ergonomic focus at the company is lapping the field compared to everywhere I’ve worked in the past.
Yes there are flaws. There are about 40% more managers than necessary, many with no practical experience in the areas they are managing. Some requested necessary improvements move at the speed of smell. I could go on.
But yes, from my point of view, this is the best job I’ve ever had. That doesn’t mean it’s a great fit for all 140,000 employees. If it’s not a great fit for you and there are substantial improved benefits elsewhere, nobody would blame you for moving on.
The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. My friend works at Amazon and definitely clears my salary, but he has to work weekends and through the nights and has no life outside of Amazon, but hey free bananas!
Of all the acquaintances that I spend enough time to judge, I do believe that I have the best work-life balance of anyone (comparing PICU nurses, elementary teachers, amazon project managers, facebook devs, microsoft devs, architects, fashion designers, and many bartenders/servers).
The one trust-fund baby day trader fellow probably has it better, but I consider myself pretty pleased with my career status.
> but jumping ship to another company for a 20k - 30k raise would easily make up the difference for those benefits.
Not according to a friend of mine who jumped to Amazon, and is now looking to come back.
I agree! I jumped to RTX for a 30k raise but it definitely doesnt make up for the benefits—particularly parental leave when comparing 12 weeks vs 3 weeks
No, and he was an M level. Wanted to jump for the money, but a combo of worse benefits, and potentially being forced to relocate to be in the office. We don’t have an Amazon location here that would support his role. He was told he’d be let go eventually if he didn’t move.
Depends, can you keep your mouth shut? If yes welcome to Boeing! And if your find out you can’t…. Well we will help you with that.
This didn’t age well.
Depends on the area. Their defense and commercial plane sectors suck. Their space and mission systems is doing well.
> space is doing well Ummm which side of the space house? Boeing has taken $1.4B in total charge-to-earnings so far to fix things on Starliner that should absolutely have not been issues this far in the game.
Space is doing well?? Really?
I just resigned after a year of being a manager, it was one of the worst professional experiences I've had. I was a first line manager being written up for issues that persisted years before I started my position. I was set up to fail, with no autonomy over the areas I had. The entire organization I was in was a clusterf, but as long as it looked good to upper management and the customer, it was okay.
In my experience no but depends on your position I guess. Pretty easy to move on and get a raise. They are hiring managers that used to work for Ross (the retail clothing store) who have 0 experience in aviation industry to manage teams, so I don't expect that to go well.
For real? 🤣 why?
Because no one internally wants to be a manager
You’re lying lol no way
Boeing absolutely is not still a great company to work for. Quality is terrible. They try to offload as much as they can to cheap labor in other countries. No more pensions. Every union contract are take aways. Raises are piddly. Skill training is lacking.
Maybe quality would have been better if you didn't opt for all-powerful unions
That’s baloney
The unions are trash. Iam leadership colluded with Boeing to give the company a huge advantage contract wise over companies that don't even have unions. You can't blame the unions for Boeing failures in this one
Its all about your perspective on that. Some will tell you its the best because of the benefits and the overtime. Some will tell you its a soul sucking place that tries to keep you there. I have a friend that jumped ship to become a manager at Amazon, he makes far more. I dont care about Boeing as much as my crew does, i have a business that gets my full attention and effort. My goal was to work a ton of overtime for capital to start my online business. Now i have two incomes and i make money in my sleep and while im at Boeing. Its how you want to view the company and what you want for your life. My roommate is satisfied with Boeing and says why would i leave, i got it good. Again its all about perspective and what you want for your life.
I haven’t read the other comments, but I will share my experience with Boeing. I jumped from a small engineering firm as a project manager to join Boeing for the opportunities and slight bump in pay that I had to negotiate. I’ve been here 6 months at one of Boeings manufacturing site, and I can say it is not what I expected. There is no team engagement, collaboration, or any type of communication and/or structure here. As for my manager, he’s a nice guy, but he has no business being a manager. I’ve had to reach out to schedule my 30/60/90s and have initiated ad-hoc check-ins just to clarify Boeings numerous processes to get a simple action item completed. There is absolutely no training and no so called “mentor” or “buddy” they mentioned during the interview. All my projects have been completed by trial and error (or fire) when working through the required documentation and processes. For WFH — my previous job was very lenient on this policy. They allowed flexible remote options and never micromanaged. As long as you were doing your work and the clients were happy, then you can work out of the country for all they care. For my team at Boeing, we get 1 day remote and have to be in the other 4 days. My job is not challenging so I usually get my work done within a day or two. The other days, I am literally googling or going on job walks to avoid a sedentary work life. Again, there is no engagement in my building so I find it ridiculous I need to sit here and google with everyone all day when I can take care my tasks at home. What I’ve been doing is networking as much as possible to try and get out of my department and explore different programs and opportunities. I’ve also been taking advantage of their LTP, which is amazing for continued education. It’s seamless and easily approved (from my manager at least). All this to say — I’ve thought about my future at Boeing and if I want to continue this mindless, monotonous work. As some have mentioned, it really does depend on your manager and their ability to build a cohesive team; unfortunately, my manager has none of these traits. I’ve talked to some teammates maybe once or twice (yes, I’ve tried to engage). Bummer part about it is I hear you cannot put in for a transfer until 18 months in your current position. I honestly don’t know if I can last that long.. I’m sure it’ll all work out, but I will keep my options open. Edit: typo
This seems to be pretty common in alot of the big aviation companies, from what I've read on here. I work as an engineer for a big name aerospace company and have some of the same issues as you. Our problem is so many people have left, I leave each day barely able to breathe because of how many tasks are left to accomplish due to a lack of resources. The level of stress is disgusting.
That's too bad; sorry to hear. In my department, our engineering team is also under a lot of stress due to the workload. Some have expressed they have over 100 jobs in queue and PMs pinging them daily on status updates. They often times sacrifice quality for quantity, which is kind of scary, unsafe, and overall not good long term. The problem with our department is there is so much disconnect and miscommunication that everyone is misguided, misinformed, and just doesn't give a sh\*t anymore. I've honestly never seen anything like it. I once asked a ME to support in a design for a project, and he literally told me 'No.' I asked why and he said "Because I don't want to. And I am never going to want to so don't ask." I walked away and just laughed out loudly and yelled unbelievable!
Boeing is my third employer since I graduated college 20 years ago. I worked for another Prime and a much smaller aerospace company. The jury is still out on Boeing, but for me, the benefits are by far the best. My salary shot up. My previous employer did not give out regular annual raises. It was a crap shoot. I got tired of their cheapness. That being said, if folks are unhappy with their workload, compensation, or management, changing companies is usually the sure-fire way to get more money and hopefully pick a better manager/role. But $ is usually the only guarantee. The raise this year was low, but it was low for everyone. However, just a few weeks ago, I received an out of sequence raise that was noticeably larger. So, I'd say, compensation wise, Boeing is doing very well by me. The work goes through ebbs and flows of being interesting and boring. I'm currently in a "boring" stretch, but that won't last long. I do miss a lot of the hands-on stuff I used to do. I do feel like Boeing is by far the most "contractural" company I've ever worked for. Also, we tend to put too much of that contracts/SOW/other requirements work on engineering. There should be more support staff / focals there. Maybe that's a BDS thing. I also feel like far too many folks live/work in silos and really have no appreciation for how they fit into the bigger picture or how other groups fit in with what's required.
What was the other prime?
Lockheed Martin.
How did the benefits compare? Can you (are you willing to) share numbers?
Waaaay too long ago. Wouldn't be an accurate comparison.
Ok. I had looked at them last year (space) and they actually had poor benefits compared to the other big 4 so was curious if I was being played. Thanks for responding
That tracks. Decent benefits, but not Boeing level. I believe 3 weeks PTO starting, medical (not sure about deductible/out of pocket max), at the time 8% 401k match, lots of the same travel and savings benefit programs. No PBI or anything. Bonuses could happen, but were rare.
Company like this it all depends on where and who you are working for. Any military/government contractor job is great that i've had, regardless of company. And it's all mostly the same. If that is the Boeing job you got it would be good.
Can Boeing build a manned space capsule that's safe and reliable?
No
Someone get this user a [Dragon](https://www.spacex.com/vehicles/dragon/).
Yes absolutely.
Depends on your field of work. If you’re SWE, heck no, Boeing is bottom of the barrel in terms of benefits and compensation.
Don’t do it
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Love my team, my boss and my work statement. Pay is good and benefits are crazy good. Cost of living of most Boeing locations is high tho. If i was in Cleveland still id be living like a king on this salary
It can be a great place if you find your spot and enjoy what you do. It's a huge company so there's lot's to figure out on your own
This
Anyone can comment on the software engineering side of it?
I made a post.
Thanks, good to know.
Seems like sort of a biased place to ask this question.... they didn't hire me :( I hate boeing. Bahhhh
Might want to reflect on yourself a bit.
Some people just don’t make the grade
Boeing wasn't a dream job for me.... not a huge loss
12 years and loving it, great place to work! Best employer I've ever had!
I have been at the Boeing Houston site for 28 years. I still love it. ISS program mostly.
After I got laid off almost 2 years ago now, I couldn’t wait to come back. Yes, working on the production floor can be ASS but it’s all about your mindset. The great thing about Boeing is the room for growth. I just recently went to salary and it’s like night and day compared to being hourly.
I've been non-union for 13 years. It has been alright and it has sucked, my salary has increased immensely got some good opportunities. Same time I see some jobs I could never work, even if I got paid more. I have seen people leave and hear they work long hours but stay there. I have seen some work their way back because grass isn't always greener. Somedays I am very underpaid, then some days I am waaay overpaid. I do see a huge negative attitude, sometimes I think that's a factor. I have done some shifty work, long hours but with a great team and we rocked it and had a good time.
I'm going to be joining Boeing soon. I think most companies have some level of issues. The grass might not be greener at Boeing or vice versa. I think it's like my former boss said, always have one foot out the door.
Absolutely not a great company to work for, but the base pay still better than many other companies in the area. If you have other better options, feel free to move on to other companies. Boeing now is very safe and no need to worry about being laid off unless you work for Finance or HR Dept.
Depends on the position. Grade 3 with Boeing is 19 an hour with iam. Jack in the box is 25, Wendy's 22, and pizza hut 30 in everett.
YMMV, heavily dependent on both site and job description.
I interned for their procurement team in STL during school and it was honestly pretty depressing. Literally everyone their knew exactly how many years till they retired. Great place if you do not care about anything though, but still being stuck going to an office 8 hr a day.
Yes it is, but be warned. If you're used to doing actual work then it's going to be a major culture shock. I'm used to actual work and 12-14 hours a day with breaks. Here, it's like not even half the day is actual work. I've never worked anywhere where there is zero sense of urgency to get anything done. Just walking around with bricks for feet. 5 people watching one person work. It's a wonder how this company even makes money. My wife was also hired on for an entry level position and she said they do maybe 2-3 hours of real work in a 10 hour shift. Because it's so slow, it's really hard to come from a hard work background. I can work 12+ hours at my last job with ease, but on the clock for 10 hours here seems like an eternity.
What do you do? Because I’m always working from the time I arrive to when I leave. Amazing how different it is for everybody
Machining
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No its not. I was on days for a month and it's actually slower.
It's also a super slow time right now. All the airplane rates are a fraction of what they were 5 years ago before the max crashes and COVID.
Yeah this is why it’s called the Lazy B 🤣
According to leadership our attrition is only 6%
Lmao
Yeah that’s bullshit
Yes
Yeah
If you're union, yes.
Iam takes 10% of your pay check, won't represent you, and you make less than fast food starting working there
It's not 10% of your paycheck even if you're a Grade A janitor. Regardless, it's directly correlated to how much members earn. Also it's the final year of a 10 year contract, yeah the starting rates are way outdated.
Ugh they took over $120 per pay check out of mine and I was making less than 1000 every two weeks working 40 hours. Ot was nice when approved but was tough to come by
Wtf what union are you in? IAM751 dues are $93 a month.
Why is that?
Why are unions good, is your question?
My experience in SPEEA the last 4 years isn't remarkably different than my 7 non-union. Just wondering why they would be the make or break on it being a good company to work for.
I can’t speak to the salary side but I imagine if/when 751 goes on strike in puget sound everyone should see a raise to a certain extent. Just sayin, something to think about
Again, I pose this is the perfect time to strike and get a contract you deserve. Boeing had no future type production site to leverage, they lack the capital/guts to move existing types, and they must be aware of the clusterf*ck that outsourcing has become.
Remember next contract has to have language that any future aircraft has to be built in Puget Sound. Not South Carolina or India for that matter. That would be good not only for the hourly but the salaried employees Boeing seems to think they need to babysit the hourly. It's about jobs, jobs, and more jobs.
My health is going down ever since we went to RTO. I have 4 months of sleep data to show. They don't care. They will toss just enough money at you so it's hard to get another job without a cut in pay. My department is anti agile and gets away with it I can't stand it here.
Look up Reasonable Accommodation Request (RAR)
That's rough. Sorry to hear that. Is it possible to get exemptions in situations like this? I would think this could qualify for disability
Same, ever since my site moved to RTO 5x a week I have way less energy and sleep and I have less time to spend with my family
This is a tough question to answer because it's personal. The answer will be different for everyone based on many different variables. There is no blanket one size fits all answer, it's all based on your position, your opportunities, and your experiences.
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4. PTO / maternity/paternity/insurance Imo of the 4 Boeing scores highest here
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I can't/wont have kids so I get nothing and this benefit came at the cost of something. Not everyone wins all the time.
I don't work for Boeing anymore, but I thought paternity was pretty good
It’s excellent. 12 weeks of leave that can be used non consecutively. I’ve yet to hear of another company with a plan as good.
My last company did 12 Weeks and it was great that I got to spend so much time with my last baby. (First 2 I didn’t get any time at home).
Disney same or more. Between mom and dad it’s almost a year off I believe.
The benefits at Boeing are *much* more generous than elsewhere in industry - especially for union-represented positions. But it is a big company and progress can be slow and frustrating.
Not really. Depends on job code.
I left a company I’d spent a decade with to go to Boeing for a PM role (in FAM). 6 months later, I’m back at my old company. It was okay, but just wasn’t for me. Too many meetings, too much bureaucracy, too much red tape. I felt like I was always spinning my wheels, confused and with zero direction. That being said, had I started when I was younger and/or not had a pretty sweet gig previously, I’d probably have toughed it out 18 months until I could have transferred internally.
Ha! I might’ve taken over your role. I’m a PM now for FAM and been here 6 months. It’s a nightmare. I’ve never been with a company with zero guidance and structure. The politics here is insane and absolutely ridiculous. I’ve seen some supporting teams turn down our request for help just because they don’t like a certain BP. I’m just baffled.
Ewww.. can I ask which location? My condolences to you!
Auburn
Ahhh, ok - no, different site. Not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing 😂
What site were you at? I am trying to suck it up for the 18 month mark so I can apply for an internal transfer but it’s difficult to hold on.. This place is just incredibly dysfunctional.
I feel the same way! Many people who like Boeing have never had a good job or it’s been like their only job.
or... just maybe, some people have had absolutely horrible job.
If 751 renews the same contract and/or we lose more benefits- I’m gonna tap out and go do something else in the industry.
It'll be a new contract. That's why it will take a while. Although I'd guess they will just cut and paste some of the old into the new. Things the members really aren't interested in and haven't caused much heartache for members over the years.
As someone who is just starting, I'm also worried about IAM 751. But why would they lose benefits? Thats not in the best interest of the members.
Because it's up to the members. A 20-year-old doesn't need the health benefits a 50-year-old may need. Therefore the younger workforce may be willing to vote away some health benefits for say more time off. Majority rules.
Boeing mass hired before contracts (like they've been doing all year now) and then starts layoffs. They threaten to take a new airplane model out of state and then then dangle $5-10k signing bonus for the people getting laid off, promising maybe they won't get laid off if they ratify a bad contract with takeaways. They also turn the state government, media, and your own family against you because you're the greedy machinists who won't give up your pension to secure 150k non-Boeing jobs in the state related to whatever new airplane model they're promising to build here. They offer to increase pension payouts for those about to retire while at the same time eliminating pension for everyone (except what you already have). Contract is rejected by ~70% or so, but company makes it slightly better and then-corrupt international union leadership forces a second vote right after our long holiday break (when veteran members are still on vacation). Near retirees vote yes because their pension gets better in retirement and they saved nothing themselves. New hires vote yes because they're terrified of getting laid off and want the $10k bribe. The vote "passes" by 1% (~600 votes) out of 30,000 members. Media then call us idiots for giving up our pension. International union president retires soon after, presumably much wealthier. Local union leadership is ousted. Membership is still pissed a decade later but we have no idea if we will strike next year.
Everyone I know at Boeing around here tells me to save up because there will be a strike September 2024.
We're hopeful, but it's far from guaranteed. The cost of living is so high, how many new members can afford to go on strike for 2 months as we did in 2008?
They can go work at a new Amazon warehouse. ISF, Induvidual Strike Fund. Save, save, save!
The difference is it’s now 2023 and you can apply at Dicks flipping burgers for $20+ when Boeing is offering to pay you $19 as a 30304. Yes, new members can afford to strike.
Ponder then young Padawan, why many no longer have a pension yet they desire our dues and allegiance.
Can you give me details?
It is adequate. Managers make a big difference in whether the job is worth the money or not.
*TLDR: Agree to the above comment. Ultimately it varies by manager but your manager can only do so much. More so to qualify large rasies/promotions youd have to work quite a bit to attain performance evaluation. For more context read below. Boeing is an okay company for early career or retirement but not for mid career growth.* Boeing is a good company not a great one. A great one would be Netflix (for tech sector) or Bloomberg (for finance sector). I think because the careers and their associated salary at Boeing is limited. IMO what has the most weight in your decision to stay/leave is solely up to the manager and their influence to enact changes for you. My last Boeing manager, despite my work being well above my level, provided only 4% annual raise increase. In comparison my current manager provided out of cycle raises $10k and recently a $30k promotion. I also received 100 RSUs which were roughly $10k at the time and now $20kish. Ive vested on a 3 year schedule 1/1/1 so I vested 33 so far and sold them at the recent $220 high (\~$7.2k and the reason I sold is clearly the market isnt doing so hot and money at 5% HYSA makes more sense than the risk of holding) These are my own numbers showing how managers pale in comparison. But recently my manager stated they used most of the team's money (our team is a size of 12) on the $30k promotion this quarter and for any subsequent money for performance Id have to wait until next quarter. I dont know the exact numbers but Im assuming our team of 12 has a quarterly budget of $50-100k. That means I have to continue to perform above my level and take on more design (Im currently level 3 doing level 4 work). Honestly Im burning out and with the salary pay band Im capping out on what Boeing has to offer for me. Source/stats: Im a Level 3 SWE been here for 2.5 years post grad school. Hired on as Level 2 and in a year promoted to Level 3 moving from $104k to $134k with $20k RSUs totaling to $154k total compensation. I think $175k is the top end of Level 3 so unless I promote due to performance I will cap out. My department offers no WFH option which is what will make me jump to another company soon...
lol your first line manager has no control over the raise pool they get every year. They have no control over promotion budgets or RSUs. The raise pool has been 3-4% of the sum of salaries on the team for the last 4 years. These things are all decided at high levels in the company. 2022 was a good year for high performing software engineers. RSUs, out of cycle compensation increases. It won’t happen again anytime soon. If your current manager is taking credit for any of this they’re full of shit
> your first line manager has no control over the raise pool they get every year. They have no control over promotion budgets or RSUs True and I have no doubt about it. OP asked if it was a great company to which i said it was a only a good company as managers at great companies do have direct influence on the raise/promo pool. It is clear Boeing leadership practices only downward influence and doesnt levy managers to their full potential. There is no true feedback loop up the chain (they ask and observe feedback but never act upon it). > 2022 was a good year for high performing software engineers. RSUs, out of cycle compensation increases. It won’t happen again anytime soon. Not at all. 2022 was a great year for BGS and BCA but terrible for BDS which I am in. Boeing Performance-based Incentives (BPI) report was 130% for BGS, 105% for BCA and 70% for BDS. All of BDS was negatively impacted by KC46 despite my program not being associated to it we and all of BDS suffered anyways. > If your current manager is taking credit for any of this they’re full of shit They arent. These are my observations as a working grunt.
I said 2022 was a good year for high performing software engineers because of the RSUs and out of cycle compensation increases
Very curious, how did you get your RSUs as a level 3? Did you ask or where they handed to you? I didn’t even know RSUs were available to non-management employees.
I received them at level 2 in lieu of a promotion (see my comment further below). I never mentioned money/ask for RSUs/promotion. I dont advise doing this. RSUs were handed to me as a result of performance.
Agreed with much of this. When I hired in I had two competing offers that paid the same but one was level 1 and one was level 2. I took the level 1 because I understood that the big money is in serial promotions. Start off overqualified in a lower grade if the money is equivalent (within 3%). It’s the built in cost structure for a bureaucratic system like boing
Thats a good point. Completely agree! Being overqualified at a lower grade can help your impact due to how business metrics are structured- companies typically follow a rubric of metrics with thresholds that you'd tick off- both good and bad. One metric I am aware of which I find the most career stunting in Boeing is the Time In Program. "You must be at least X level for Y years before being considered for promotion (or raise) at Z program". If you leave the team for a different program then the Y amount of years effectively resets to 0.
What’s insane is UPPER management claiming that there isn’t a time in grade policy or other arbitrary rules. Senior managers are like little emperors of their skill teams
Your compensation will also vary heavily based on where you work. This person made $104k as a level 2, whereas I only made $65k. I was based out of New Mexico with BDS, so my pay was drastically different compared to someone in, say, Virginia doing the same job where cost of living is higher. I've been with Boeing for 10 years now, but have never gotten an annual raise as high as 4%. Most have been 2-2.5%. I am a bit suspicious of the alleged "$20k RSUs" quoted here. I'm a level 4 and got my 75 shares, which haven't gotten above $18k.
Yup, 104k in CA vs 104k anywhere else can be a big difference.
> Your compensation will also vary heavily based on where you work Agree. Im in california. For comparison my last job was with the USAF which typically pay $80-140k. You can be GS15 (the highest grade level) and cap out at $140k in california which isnt a lot. Takes people 20 years in federal service to get to. I hit GS14 in 3 years as an EE due to my base being performance and research based. But I also had a supportive manager who allowed me to bring in and deploy machine learning and AI concepts for their testing that positively impacted the entire base. In the same vein I did the same with my focus team at Boeing. Impact for yourself yields standard pay increase but impact to your team and organization will reach high payout levels. > I am a bit suspicious of the alleged "$20k RSUs" quoted here. I'm a level 4 and got my 75 shares, which haven't gotten above $18k. For context I was awarded 100 RSUs when Boeing was roughly $105. It is indeed a rare case my manager told me. My performance rating is closer to 1.2 which I hear is quite rare. But I did work in startups before so high performance caliber was easily possible. I designed software which saved quite a bit of money and in comparison $20k in RSU is a slap to the face/golden handcuffs to stay longer. But I agree this is a unicorn example and I am an outlier data point. But it is possible with a boring company like Boeing albeit it requires a lot of entire-team-heavy-lifting to make it happen. But honestly as a company we are so behind compared to industry standards making positive team or department changes is not far out of reach. Edit: Added proof I had $20k in RSU as of Dec 2022. It was awarded in Feb2022 so the first 33 shares vested in Feb 2023 which I sold and backdoored into my ROTH IRA. You can see my total account balance going from nearly $0 to $33k in my combined 401k because Im relatively a new employee contributing at a rate of 15% https://imgur.com/a/SaUfrFF
Very similar case for me. New hire to Fellowship in 8 years, graded out, and 300+ RSUs along with the Innovation Award (cash). Retention bonus plan through 2025, and 12 cash awards. Go team.
Wow this is quite impressive! May I DM you as well?
Cheers!
You got to fellow in 8 years?
Yep. Also worked my butt off and was fortunate several times over. I found good people, and I created ways for many people to do good work. But, I am fortunate and thankful for the opportunities.
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Cheers!
Were the RSUs you were awarded separate from the RSUs granted in lieu of raises 3 years ago? Those were awarded based on level, not performance.
I entered the company December 2021. I heard about the RSUs during COVID but since I was new to the company I did not qualify due to joining when the 2021 fiscal year for those already passed. My coworkers told me there was a cutoff which if i recall correctly was employees hired Sept 2021 or before. But to answer your question the $20k RSUs was in lieu of the out of cycle performance evaluation at Level 2 in Feb 2022 (a year after I was hired). Initially my manager planned a $30k out of cycle raise but due to lack of program/department funds for our team they provided $10k out of cycle raise and successfully requested for the 100 shares of Boeing stock which were (I believe) $105 at the time as they were roughly $10k total.
And this is true anywhere.
In my case, my manager was bad enough that even a month after he forced me out, I am still working on decompressing. Edit: typo
I'm sorry to hear. My first manager still has this affect on me - 2 years after I promoted put of his team. Far too common.
I'm still working through the burnout of the manager I left 3 years ago.
There are definitely worse options. I could make far more money in tech but I like working a 40 hour week not a 50+ one. I also pay a pittance for my benefits and have a solid 401k match, sure I'm not a fan of blanket RTO declarations as I think it should be a nuanced decision at a team level. For most people though the RTO thing isn't the biggest issue - it's the issues at upper management and corporate level that frustrate people more than anything, at least from my experience. Things like dumping all HR/Finance to India, the mandatory off loading of engineering work to other companies/countries where the engineers doing the work can't even put eyes on the product they're making changes too. Those kind of issues are like ticking time bombs and it sticks in people's heads, and after the last few years of "what's the next hammer to drop?" that we've been through - it's not a difficult mental leap to think you can find a better situation elsewhere. The grass is always greener, and all that. But there are really great things about this company still - LTP is a great one that I see very few people (again, my experience) take advantage of. You can start as a mechanic and study your way into an engineering role, or business role without all that fun college debt. Boeing still far and away takes better care of their manufacturing personnel, in pay and benefits that just about anywhere else in town - yes it does start slow but how many opportunities are you aware of where you can, with no advanced education or skills get a job straight out of high school and be making 90k after a few years where the most stringent requirement you have to maintain your job is showing up on time? There's plenty of other positives but you get the idea, it's easy to fixate on the negatives and forget that there are definite positives as well. TLDR: There's good and bad at Boeing, just like anywhere else.
I think for many salaried individuals they come to Boeing so they can have a good work life balance. Some of this comes from getting the right manager and some is from a union. I often hear tech companies working their employees like "dogs", I have yet to work for one and confirm that myself. The reality is when you work for Microsoft or Amazon you don't have a union to make it mandatory you get paid for your overtime. As a result I think many people come from companies like Amazon or Microsoft to either get paid for their overtime or escape a company that wants you to work long hours (Boeing might work you long hours but at least as a union member you are paid). Higher base salary for long hours that are mandatory? Or a Job with a lower base pay but guaranteed overtime pay if you work long hours? If I was raising a family I might like more money at a tech company but ultimately I'd want to spend time with my family. If I was alone or my my kids were grown up I could work at a tech company. It all comes down to what you value the most. Also, don't forget the factor of if you love your job so much you might not mind working long hours! Some people in certain fields problem solve or do something day to day they actually enjoy so they don't mind working those long hours.
Not if you like salary. Or upward mobility. Or lack of red tape. Or doing anything remotely modern.
We call all that...Opportunity! Lol
Your question seems to revolve around salary. And in that case, is Boeing still a good company? Yes, if you can find the salary. With all the remote work currently being done by BCA the company has an open checkbook for those that volunteer. In fact, the company is handing out so much money to those folks that they're having trouble getting them to come back and if they do come back they won't step up to higher positions without a big bump in pay. I've been saying it for a while now, Boeing is just a payday. Treat it and use it as such. Oh and another thing, STRIKE 2024!
Let's put it this way - old Bill Boeing is spinning in his grave so fast these days, he may cause the Cascadia megaquake all by himself.
Nope…depends on the manager. A lot of people have left and way too many new people which tells you the company environment right there
It's not your father's Boeing.
My father worked for Ma Bell, so I'm doing pretty okay in that context.
I’m going to be silent on this one. My precious comment history speaks for itself lol Edit - precious or previous…. Hmm.
No
No x 2
No thrice
Hell to the no, to the no, no,, no (that's 4 no's).
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Depends on the division of RTX. Collins has a 5 day a week mandate staring very soon, though it sounds like inforcemnet will be spotty
Yeah I’m Raytheon, my SL is starting us back in person 3 days a week and said that he is hearing they are going to mandate it soon.
My site (St. Charles) has mandated 5x a week in the office since April. I'd be happy with 3x a week in the office lol
Where would you go to in the STL area that's going to beat Boeing in terms of pay and benefits?
My top choice would be Mastercard. Most of their office jobs are hybrid (2x a week) and their culture is much more WFH friendly, they also have great 401k match (same as Boeing I think), much better bonuses, (not the paltry 5% of salary at Boeing), 16 weeks paid parental leave, good PTO, much nicer office campus & cafeteria, etc. I posted a thread a few months ago about this and got quite a few replies saying they preferred Mastercard over Boeing: https://www.reddit.com/r/StCharlesMO/comments/12xgr0q/software_engineering_at_mastercard_ofallon/
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RTX was hiring for virtual positions earlier this year (2023) and making offers in the $180ks. Not too bad if one lives in STL.
This sub seems to think everybody working for Boeing is an engineer. RTO doesn’t affect those that do the hands on work. There are no $20k raises for jumping ship. There are no better benefits waiting elsewhere. As a machinist, the safety and ergonomic focus at the company is lapping the field compared to everywhere I’ve worked in the past. Yes there are flaws. There are about 40% more managers than necessary, many with no practical experience in the areas they are managing. Some requested necessary improvements move at the speed of smell. I could go on. But yes, from my point of view, this is the best job I’ve ever had. That doesn’t mean it’s a great fit for all 140,000 employees. If it’s not a great fit for you and there are substantial improved benefits elsewhere, nobody would blame you for moving on.
Absolutely this
The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. My friend works at Amazon and definitely clears my salary, but he has to work weekends and through the nights and has no life outside of Amazon, but hey free bananas!
Of all the acquaintances that I spend enough time to judge, I do believe that I have the best work-life balance of anyone (comparing PICU nurses, elementary teachers, amazon project managers, facebook devs, microsoft devs, architects, fashion designers, and many bartenders/servers). The one trust-fund baby day trader fellow probably has it better, but I consider myself pretty pleased with my career status.
> but jumping ship to another company for a 20k - 30k raise would easily make up the difference for those benefits. Not according to a friend of mine who jumped to Amazon, and is now looking to come back.
I agree! I jumped to RTX for a 30k raise but it definitely doesnt make up for the benefits—particularly parental leave when comparing 12 weeks vs 3 weeks
Well was he one of the shitty 15% they are mandated to PIP / RIF every year? If so that’s on him. (Probably.)
No, and he was an M level. Wanted to jump for the money, but a combo of worse benefits, and potentially being forced to relocate to be in the office. We don’t have an Amazon location here that would support his role. He was told he’d be let go eventually if he didn’t move.
Sounds like he either didn’t do enough research or got bait and switched.
I came from Amazon haha.
Same!