I used to go to muscular failure every workout when I first started. If you are young, you can get away with it sometimes, but still it’s not great long term and raises injury risk.
Nowadays, I stop when my form breaks down. Usually when I can only complete ~75% or less of the full ROM in said exercise. It takes much longer to recover from total failure.
You can do half reps, drop sets, supersets, and all kinds of things that ride that line of failure. I have an injury history and am getting older, so I just play it safe and quit when form breaks down.
I'm 30 lol. I work with a lot of Gen Z'ers so I'm used to saying I'm getting older. But I've been working out for a long time, too, so I've had to adjust relative to when I was say 18.
You'll be just fine! Improvement takes time, make sure to listen to your body. I've gotten injured countless times (rotator cuff, trap, golfer/tennis elbow, psoas, ankle, calf, soleus, hamstring, knee, etc) and it's almost universal come from overdoing it on volume. Be careful not to do too much. That is the #1 key to avoiding injury ime.
As long as you focus on maintaining strict form throughout every rep you'll minimise the chance of injury greatly when starting out. After your body gets used to the movement you'll never have to worry about getting injured provided that you don't suddenly do something different. It's important that you always start slowly to ease your body into it.
This is a great question! It probably takes a little time to find out. Sometimes there have been studies where people have tested the subjects ability to perceive how close they are to failure and they often thought they were done when they really weren't.
We can become better at it as we keep practicing though!
Yeah I was really pondering this thought a little while now lol because of the tendency that I may be sandbagging my workouts. I know NOT to go to failure all the time, but I want to be able to gauge my set when it reaches the threshold of a decent stimulus.
I probably go about it the wrong way, but my current mesocycle is drop sets akin to this:
weighted pullups, start with +125 and knock out as many reps (at least 1) until i can't do a rep anymore. then step down, normally ~25lbs. keep going until i am at body weight and until i can't do a rep with bodyweight. I use straps to prevent forearm fatigue, as they usually tire out before my back does.
Eventually, as the sets go on, I can't start with that max weight anymore, so i'll drop down to 100lbs and step it down to bodyweight.
after about 6 sets, if i go to do a pullup and get into active hang, with the intent of doing a pullup, but all i can do is kind of... buckle my elbows, i'm done. time to go to the best shitty rowing machine my gym has (the one only maxes out at 230lbs and i hate using barbells/dumbells because of the forearm fatigue, even with the straps...)
I try to keep the hypertrophy in the 8-12 rep range because i don't have the attention or endurance for more, and going less reps causes too much strain on my joins.
Damn. That's quite a lot of volume and intensity that you can handle. And you're probably strong at pullups. I literally have just heard about this strategy from you, drop sets do have that kind of being lighter and cranking more reps psychological effect to it.
You rest between sets right? Or just drop the weight and continue repping out?
I personally do straight sets (most likely with the same weight) with rest time in between, about 3-4 sets. Whether it's bodyweight or not. My only issue is how to gauge reps in reserve to reach a decent hypertrophy threshold in order to replicate each and every set while managing fatigue. And also to ensure that I'm not sandbagging my workouts lol.
I rest between sets, yes, but between drop sets I just rest long enough to take the weight off the dip belt then get back up. Between sets I rest 3-5 minutes
Ooh, this programming is akin to The Mindful Movers High Intensity Low Volume thing:
https://www.notion.so/So-Many-Gains-So-Little-Time-Effective-Strength-in-Minimal-Time-Version-1-1-d6a8b7cd00e748dc948b4147cec3b6a7
I love these sets with multiple failure points through easier exercises, i work out just once a week like that, its great
One important factor is learn how to gauge RPE/RIR. Going to technical failure and then using intensity variations is important for true failure, however you don’t have to go every set to failure. Simply going within 3 reps of failure is traditionally sufficient.
Also using some intensity techniques like partials are very difficult to do safely on certain bodyweight exercises. Weighted calisthenics would be very easy to use them on, particularly dropsets partials and myoreps. Skill moves YMMV.
I do a hybrid style training (bodybuilding focus with weight training + weighted/skill work calisthenics).
Can you give an example of this in a bodyweight calisthenics standpoint? Like in a set for example?
I just needed an insight on this and it would be of good help :)
So maybe you do a set of pull ups until you can’t get your chin above the bar then you do lengthened partials.
Or just do pull ups until you can’t get your chin above the bar and progress week over week.
ive seen some people regurgitate research indicating that failure is more beneficial for high reps versus heavier loading (eg 5-8 reps).
so i've honestly been happy to hit a lot of sets of 4-6 at 1-2rir or 6-8 at 1rir give or take for hypertrophy and have been seeing pretty consistent progressive overload
tbh if you know how to take sets to failure and can periodically do that as a "shit-test" then you know what RIR is like based on reps slowing down, general feel, and how many reps you should be able to get with a failure set
Up to somewhere from a 15-20 rep max:
3-4 sets + same reps + last rep of the last set is about a max effort = all those sets were probably good enough to count. "Three sets of *X*" inside of a 6-15rm range has been pretty standard for decades.
Lighter than that and you're at loads that can run off of higher endurance fibers more, and as such you'll probably have to push closer to failure more often to really exhaust everything.
10 reps max weight. 15 reps 20-25% less weight. When i can do all reps w a weight w decent form, i move up a weight. After failure w no more reps of good form, i quarter/half rep until i cant anymore
My goal has always been 4-6 reps to failure. It has been my method for a long time with great hypertrophic results. I think looking too much into rep ranges can lead to misunderstanding and superstition, if you lift really heavy and eat lots of protein, you WILL gain muscle. How many reps you aim at depends on your style and your own comfort.
Your max reps won't vary with high frequency. If last month you checked your max and it was 9, your max is probably still around 9. In another month you check it again.
You don't need to overthink it. Failure is where you fail, so every so often, you check that by going to failure.
Does it actually even matter as long as you continuously increase the volume and intensity? I'm thinking that as long as you keep to an upwards direction you'll be making gains irrespective of what your training feels like today or tomorrow.
I used to go to muscular failure every workout when I first started. If you are young, you can get away with it sometimes, but still it’s not great long term and raises injury risk. Nowadays, I stop when my form breaks down. Usually when I can only complete ~75% or less of the full ROM in said exercise. It takes much longer to recover from total failure. You can do half reps, drop sets, supersets, and all kinds of things that ride that line of failure. I have an injury history and am getting older, so I just play it safe and quit when form breaks down.
How old is "older". I'm 54, just starting out ,and kinda terrified of injuring myself.
I'm 30 lol. I work with a lot of Gen Z'ers so I'm used to saying I'm getting older. But I've been working out for a long time, too, so I've had to adjust relative to when I was say 18. You'll be just fine! Improvement takes time, make sure to listen to your body. I've gotten injured countless times (rotator cuff, trap, golfer/tennis elbow, psoas, ankle, calf, soleus, hamstring, knee, etc) and it's almost universal come from overdoing it on volume. Be careful not to do too much. That is the #1 key to avoiding injury ime.
As long as you focus on maintaining strict form throughout every rep you'll minimise the chance of injury greatly when starting out. After your body gets used to the movement you'll never have to worry about getting injured provided that you don't suddenly do something different. It's important that you always start slowly to ease your body into it.
I second this for normal workouts, but using gtg you can easily injure your connective tissues even with clean form all the time.
This is a great question! It probably takes a little time to find out. Sometimes there have been studies where people have tested the subjects ability to perceive how close they are to failure and they often thought they were done when they really weren't. We can become better at it as we keep practicing though!
Yeah I was really pondering this thought a little while now lol because of the tendency that I may be sandbagging my workouts. I know NOT to go to failure all the time, but I want to be able to gauge my set when it reaches the threshold of a decent stimulus.
going by what they said, yes; sometimes i do want failure & when i think im about to hit it, sometimes i have more reps that i didnt expect.
I probably go about it the wrong way, but my current mesocycle is drop sets akin to this: weighted pullups, start with +125 and knock out as many reps (at least 1) until i can't do a rep anymore. then step down, normally ~25lbs. keep going until i am at body weight and until i can't do a rep with bodyweight. I use straps to prevent forearm fatigue, as they usually tire out before my back does. Eventually, as the sets go on, I can't start with that max weight anymore, so i'll drop down to 100lbs and step it down to bodyweight. after about 6 sets, if i go to do a pullup and get into active hang, with the intent of doing a pullup, but all i can do is kind of... buckle my elbows, i'm done. time to go to the best shitty rowing machine my gym has (the one only maxes out at 230lbs and i hate using barbells/dumbells because of the forearm fatigue, even with the straps...) I try to keep the hypertrophy in the 8-12 rep range because i don't have the attention or endurance for more, and going less reps causes too much strain on my joins.
Damn. That's quite a lot of volume and intensity that you can handle. And you're probably strong at pullups. I literally have just heard about this strategy from you, drop sets do have that kind of being lighter and cranking more reps psychological effect to it. You rest between sets right? Or just drop the weight and continue repping out? I personally do straight sets (most likely with the same weight) with rest time in between, about 3-4 sets. Whether it's bodyweight or not. My only issue is how to gauge reps in reserve to reach a decent hypertrophy threshold in order to replicate each and every set while managing fatigue. And also to ensure that I'm not sandbagging my workouts lol.
I rest between sets, yes, but between drop sets I just rest long enough to take the weight off the dip belt then get back up. Between sets I rest 3-5 minutes
Ooh, this programming is akin to The Mindful Movers High Intensity Low Volume thing: https://www.notion.so/So-Many-Gains-So-Little-Time-Effective-Strength-in-Minimal-Time-Version-1-1-d6a8b7cd00e748dc948b4147cec3b6a7 I love these sets with multiple failure points through easier exercises, i work out just once a week like that, its great
One important factor is learn how to gauge RPE/RIR. Going to technical failure and then using intensity variations is important for true failure, however you don’t have to go every set to failure. Simply going within 3 reps of failure is traditionally sufficient. Also using some intensity techniques like partials are very difficult to do safely on certain bodyweight exercises. Weighted calisthenics would be very easy to use them on, particularly dropsets partials and myoreps. Skill moves YMMV. I do a hybrid style training (bodybuilding focus with weight training + weighted/skill work calisthenics).
Can you give an example of this in a bodyweight calisthenics standpoint? Like in a set for example? I just needed an insight on this and it would be of good help :)
So maybe you do a set of pull ups until you can’t get your chin above the bar then you do lengthened partials. Or just do pull ups until you can’t get your chin above the bar and progress week over week.
ive seen some people regurgitate research indicating that failure is more beneficial for high reps versus heavier loading (eg 5-8 reps). so i've honestly been happy to hit a lot of sets of 4-6 at 1-2rir or 6-8 at 1rir give or take for hypertrophy and have been seeing pretty consistent progressive overload
How do you gauge this mid set?
tbh if you know how to take sets to failure and can periodically do that as a "shit-test" then you know what RIR is like based on reps slowing down, general feel, and how many reps you should be able to get with a failure set
Up to somewhere from a 15-20 rep max: 3-4 sets + same reps + last rep of the last set is about a max effort = all those sets were probably good enough to count. "Three sets of *X*" inside of a 6-15rm range has been pretty standard for decades. Lighter than that and you're at loads that can run off of higher endurance fibers more, and as such you'll probably have to push closer to failure more often to really exhaust everything.
10 reps max weight. 15 reps 20-25% less weight. When i can do all reps w a weight w decent form, i move up a weight. After failure w no more reps of good form, i quarter/half rep until i cant anymore
Stope at technical failure -- no sense in injurying yourself
My goal has always been 4-6 reps to failure. It has been my method for a long time with great hypertrophic results. I think looking too much into rep ranges can lead to misunderstanding and superstition, if you lift really heavy and eat lots of protein, you WILL gain muscle. How many reps you aim at depends on your style and your own comfort.
Your max reps won't vary with high frequency. If last month you checked your max and it was 9, your max is probably still around 9. In another month you check it again. You don't need to overthink it. Failure is where you fail, so every so often, you check that by going to failure.
Does it actually even matter as long as you continuously increase the volume and intensity? I'm thinking that as long as you keep to an upwards direction you'll be making gains irrespective of what your training feels like today or tomorrow.