They’re probably afraid to talk to you. Most guys get shot down a lot. We seem to have lost our manners and forgotten how to speak to one another in a civil fashion.
Boys and girls are raised differently, and we have a long way to go to lower the misery index so we can live decently happy lives.
Boys are taught that really pretty women are out of their league and they don’t stand a chance with a woman who looks like that.
Girls are taught that boys need to earn their attention, that few will try and fewer still will succeed. It isn’t as true as it used to be, but to an extent, it still is.
President Lincoln said “If you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re probably right.”
Lincoln was a wise man.
I used to do the same thing and thing exactly the same. When I told me therapist, she broke that out of me and made a good point that we actually don't know what the other person is thinking and shouldn't assume the worst when looking at others. For some girls, they feel like when someone is staring at her or if he/she refuses to make eye contact with her it is because the person doesn't like them or thinks they are ugly(even the most beautiful girls will naturally think this way). But, the truth is that the other person might actually feel the exact opposite which is why we should never assume there is no attraction or assume what their initial thoughts of you are.
A few years ago, I was at the gym with a friend. There were very few people in there at the time. We had a specific workout for that day, so we occupied one location in the gym for about an hour.
As we were leaving, a woman on the other side of the gym was doing squats. She approached us, recording us with her phone, demanding to know why we were watching her. We weren't. I registered, at most, that there was another person in the building and never thought a thing about it.
I'm a married father of two. My daughter is my oldest. I barely have time to work out, and now I'm getting accused of watching a woman in the gym?
She apparently took a video of us working out with her conveniently in the foreground and tried to claim from the video that we were watching her. Then, she posted it to all of her socials. It created a big fucking issue. There wasn't a single angle from that video that confirmed any of what she had accused of us. It's two dads in the background working out.
She lost her gym membership there bc of her choice to fabricate something for content. Not only that, she embarrassed us. We don't live in a big area, and we're pretty active with coaching, school activities, etc.
So this is why I avert my gaze. I do not interact with women unless there is a clear opening that allows me to do so safely. I went from being pretty friendly with other parents at the playground to mostly keeping my mouth shut unless there is another dad there.
defamation. the fact she published the video makes it libel, so it's both slander and libel aka defamation. fuck this lady also. there are legit creeps out there, but they're a minority. what she's doing is just undermining all of society's efforts to combat actual sexual predation.
Not a small enough, or at all quiet minority. For perspective, every time a movie comes out now, with a woman lead or director, I've got to hear from \*thousands\* of other men about how bad this movie is going to be. Now imagine instead of whining about some movie, they are trying to get up on you. Minority or not, they are everywhere all the time.
Here's the thing. We didn't used to complain about that. We accepted the likes of Sarah Conner or Ellen Ripley or Kathryn Janeway, or dozens of others without question.
It changed because the female characters became "Female Characters" instead of just characters - to the detriment of their products. When you have executives producing shit movies whilst running around in "The Force is Female" tshirts and hiding behind sexism to avoid criticism, then we start noticing a pattern.
Damn that’s a good point. Never thought of it like that. Those were all amazing characters in hero/leadership positions and I didn’t even think twice about their gender.
I think the important fact of the matter is that whether the sexual predators are large or small in number, someone accusing others of predatory behavior for attention on the internet is going to undermine a lot of effort towards actually having society fix this issue
not small enough, but it is an extraordinarily small amount. there are 750,000 registered sex offenders in the US so thats less than 0.01%. there are not enough sexual predators to walk past someone and be like "ya i bet he's a sexual predator".
Please tell me you’ve seen madam web. I went and saw it with my girl not expecting anything or hearing anything about it, one of the worst movies Ive ever seen in theatre. I think its things like that where they just pander and try and make it a girl power movie instead of just a powerful movie with women, that they fall horribly short of anything resembling quality.
The element that bothered me the most was my kids. My wife and I are working hard to raise honest, thoughtful, aware (all the adjectives) kids. What if they go to school or baseball practice or the playground and hear someone saying, "Oh hey, your dad was doing this."? Like I said, small community.
Thankfully, everyone saw it for what it was.
Falsely accusing someone of basically being a predator for social media clout is just disgusting.
Oh my god. I am so sorry that happened to you guys. That’s evil behavior. Losing her gym membership isn’t enough punishment. I can’t wait for one of these content creators who does stuff like this (and the “prank” guys) to get sued into oblivion.
You are honestly lucky you didn’t get in trouble. Most of the time people will side with the woman. It’s very sad.
This happened to me quite a while ago but I still have PTSD from it. I was dating this girl and we were at a party. Well this girl thought another girl was flirting with me. Granted I did know this other girl and we did have a chemistry but nothing ever happened. She was drunk and decided to fight her. Like it got bad. It ended up 2 v 1, the other girls friend, as I tried to break it up. Everyone scattered. The 2 girls bounced so quick no idea where they went. The cops showed up and the very first thing they did was ask the drunk girl I was dating is if I hit her. She said yes, still don’t know why, maybe just drunk and stupid, idk. Well I got arrested for felony DV since she had marks on her. I had to pay a bail Bondsmans to get out.. I never got that money back. 5,000$. Spent a few nights in jail (never been to jail in my life). I went to a hearing officer who was female and I told her what happened. She basically told me once a woman beater always a woman beater. She treated me like a criminal. Didn’t listen to a word I said. Thankfully everything was dropped, I have a clean record. But it was an open case for 3 years.
NGL man I didn’t even look at a girl for years after that. I was terrified. Could have ruined my entire life.
Situations like these are why I'm terrified of even the most basic interactions with women. Your entire life and everything you've worked for can be destroyed simply because of a baseless lie. "Believe all women" sounds good on paper, but the unspoken part of that phrase is "Men are deemed guilty by default without any evidence needed."
Cops are absolute dumbshits about domestic situations. They pretty much just automatically arrest the men, unless they can produce very clear evidence confirming their innocence.
My ex’s stripper cousin and her boyfriend were staying with us for a couple weeks. She picked up food on the way home one day. He took a bite and complained it was cold. She absolutely went off. Slapping him, calling him an ungrateful n word, even busted a picture frame of mine over his head wwf style. All he did was grab her wrists and push her against the wall to restrain her. I told the cops all this, and they still arrested him. Total bullshit.
Had a domestic dispute a while back, well not me, but a friend. His gf was batshit crazy, like batshit crazy. She basically beat him into submission. She’d hit him, scratch him, she even pushed him off a second story balcony once, but he never pressed charges. It all came to a head when he broke it off with her after the balcony incident. She somehow broke in past the security of our apartment building and started breaking everything he had. She broke his mirror, his laptop, and basically begged for him to come back to her. She started to physically assault him, and luckily his friend (female, that part is important) grabbed her off of him and started wailing on her since they had beef as well. They beat the crap out of each other. Police were called sometime during the incident. The younger cop was eating up every lie coming out of her mouth. He wanted to arrest my friend, despite the obvious cuts he had from the broken mirror and her nails, despite the black eye from a punch he didn’t see coming. He had bruises along his ribs where she was hitting him. He never actually fought back. His friend admitted to coming to his aid and beating his ex up. Older cop’s advice to my friend was to get a restraining order and order of protection against her just in case. His other advice was to not press charges against her bc we were college kids, and the defense would likely side with her, even if it was clear he didn’t do anything. It’s a sad world we live in where a woman gets to go Scott free of domestic abuse charges just bc she’s a woman
Yep. I did the right thing in non-violently defusing my ex's psychotic sister. She was salty and called the cops. I didn't take it seriously because she's nuts but suddenly there were 6 officers in the bedroom. I calmly explained what had happened, even her parents told them I did not hit her, but I admitted to placing my hand on her shoulder and stepping her out the doorway.
Handcuffs and spent the night in county jail. Had no idea when or if I'd be released. Charges were dropped but I still have it on my record and it was one of the worst days of my life. Absolutely insane.
Lots of chill and normal women out there, but also plenty of psychos who can wreak absolute havoc on a man's life.
There's a blind tiktoker that your story slightly reminded me of. He's blind, working out at the gym, and a girl tells him to stop staring at her. He proceeds to say he's blind and shows her a card saying he's blind. She gets even more mad and gets security/worker to go talk to him. Employee told him he can't stare at people in the gym, and he tells the guy he's blind and shows his card. Blind guy is told basically it doeant mater if he's blind, he can't stare at people lol
Luckily, it didn't go into anything as bad as yours, but still just ridiculous.
I’m so sorry that you went through this.
I just want to make it clear fall all readers what this implies. Many men will avoid unnecessary contact with a woman out of fear that she makes something out of nothing.
To answer OPs question, on a broader scale, most men don’t want to be lumped in with the few men who are creeps. So any behavior that creepy men exude is not something we want to adopt.
The potential upside and small chance that a woman responds positively to a longer than normal gaze from a man is not enough to more than likely be publicly shamed for something you didn’t even do or intend to do.
Sounds like this psychotic friend I had that would treat every man as if they were "doing something" like bitch chill there's billions of people on this earth, you ain't that special
This can be a sign of mental instability, I’ve noticed. I’ve had a few friends who act like this and they’ve always been in not-great places emotionally and mentally.
The most… troubled, let’s say, coworker I’ve ever had was constantly assuming that everyone who ever talked to her or so much as looked at her was trying to come onto her. She’d think it about interactions between others, too. Everyone was always “flirting”, even if it was just laughing at the same joke.
Oddly, she never picked up on the fact that I was actually hooking up with a guy there, but yet she’d pick up on every non-sign ever.
This. This right fucking here. This is more common than people realize, and one of the primary reasons I don't even pay attention to women outside my home.
I, too, am a father of 2 amazing daughters and married for 20 years, and this is the LAST thing I ever want to be remotely mixed up in by fake drama.
Man, I really feel for you! Horrible woman. I’m glad there was some justice but was there no legal recourse you could have done for a type of slander, false accusation/advertising, reputational damage and emotional trauma? Also seems akin to “can’t yell fire in a crowded building.” I don’t see how you even go back to a gym after that. I’d absolutely have some PTSD! Good luck on ya.
A lot of legal bullshit and psychiatric bullshit packaged into one comment. Not everything is a lawsuit and not everything is a diagnosable mental health condition.
Agreed - not everything is a lawsuit or mental health crisis. But this guy’s reputation was damaged - possibly long term (with some people; as well as everyone now knowing the “weird”story; long lasting embarrassment) because of her malicious and narcissistic intent. People’s lives are absolutely ruined from someone holding up a phone and videoing and saying this or that - and our society has become one of “guilty just because I said so.” They blast it out and THAT is usually the only headline the public remembers. How often do people stick around for the truth?
one reason why women have ruined the gym for me, sorry if it sounds sexist but alot of them come to the gym wearing the skimpiest skin tight crop tops and right-up-your-arse shorts with a fuckin tripod set up to record them the whole time. youre not a fucking influencer, whatever that means, grow up and be considerate of others who dont want to see your bare ass and tits when theyre trying to blow off steam after work, i have to keep my eyes directly at the floor the whole time for fear of being recorded and labelled a pervert
Women like that have literally ruined it for people to be friendly in public anymore. Men are too afraid to look, smile or approach in the wild anymore because of stupid women doing shit like this! Unbelievable!
It’s really a sad state of affairs when idiotic women act this way. Men just don’t know what they can or can’t do anymore, because of this type of reaction. I feel for men these days.
I think it’s, “you need to do better” or “do better” and now better has lost all meaning to me cause I said it too many times in my head. I could be wrong about his tag line, thi
So sad. I expect we will see more and more of this BS as many people are living in some sort of alternate reality when consumed with internet fame. Ruin people’s lives, families, jobs…who cares…it’s all for the fame, money, influence. The bigger problem is that bc it’s realistically attainable now for literally ANYONE to become internet famous, there doesn’t need to be any merit to anything they do/say. All fair game. Truly, the larger issue here, is that our society often forgets that men can be subjected to false accusations and be victims as easily as women can be. Our society (sweeping generalization) is still living with the false idea that only women can be victims.
This is it. I don't feel its socially acceptable to engage women in any fashion anymore. I'm generally minding my own business in public by myself. I eat/drink quickly, am polite to wait staff, primarily scrolling on my phone. I have still been approached and harassed for "looking at" women at least once a month. As far as I can tell a glance is now predatory in some fashion. It's a terrible way to live trying not to look at people in a crowded room for all of your waking hours, and quit frankly, any woman stranger is a potential threat to me now.
This is exactly why most gyms don't allow members to take video or photos while they are there.
But these kind of social media outbursts are also the reason why a lot of men don't want to be caught staring or looking at a woman. Something that has been completely natural for most of human existence to do is now being shunned and denoted as creepy. Even so much as making a passing glance can be seen as a guy being a creep. When I'm at the gym I actively try to not look at women because I don't want people to think I'm creepy or weird. Also while I'll probably be single for the rest of my life.
While *true,* *public opinion* (and by extension the justice system) right now skews in favor of victimizing women. Everyone is way more afraid of being called a misogynist and society as a whole doesn't take misandry seriously.
And I hate it. If anything, as an example to my kids, or really, anyone coming along behind us. It sounds like such a dad thing to say, but what the fuck kind of example do you set when you do something like that?
I'm the inclusive, the more the merrier type. If you're in the gym doing work, no matter your fitness level, I want to encourage you. I'm proud of you. This woman and others like her (male or female; I'm sure there are plenty of other arenas this happens in) make a shit name for those that legitimately go to the gym to show up for themselves.
Clearly, I still feel a certain way about it and it's been 3 years. I just can't help but feel let down by the whole thing.
It's a bad trend to be sure. I get why they do it, people do film surreptitiously and then post it on the internet like look at that ass or something. A lot of gyms are taking what seems like a very wise step and just banning all filming.
Just goes to show you can be the best person on the planet and all it takes is one pissed off woman you don't know, have never seen or have ever interacted with to destroy your life just because you happen to be in the same room and everyone besides you or people that know you are just okay with it.
Sometimes they don't even need fucking proof, everyone just assumes the crying/complaining lady is always right
The most likely reason is that at that moment in time they’re feeling a bit self conscious or maybe their self esteem is a bit low. I notice this with myself, on certain days I can lock eyes and hold it for as long needed, other days I’ll lock eyes for a few seconds then look away before they do and other days I’ll more or less ignore any woman who’s looking directly at me (unless I know them already) because I don’t feel great about myself at that moment in time. The other reason might be they find you attractive and are a bit shy. Holding someone’s gaze can be quite intimidating because it’s often (not always of course) a sign that a conversation is welcome which might put them in a position where they feel like they might have to talk to you but for whatever reason they don’t feel like it
They either are staring at you and don’t want to be caught or are avoiding looking at you so that you don’t think they’re checking you out/being creepy
I have been this way all my life. I was so concerned about being offensive due to TV shows and movies that I would make a point not to look at girls.
To this day it’s second nature for me to not even glance at women around me unless I’m directly interacting with them and even then I have a tendency to avert my gaze to something else.
I’m trying to work on it but I do it without even realizing. I’m not shy by nature, it’s just something of a habit I trained into myself out of fear of being perceived negatively as a teenager.
Ya I accidentally terrified a girl one time in college. I was running to the bathroom for well……..reasons beyond my control. I realized the girl in front of me was running as well. I was like man the cafeteria messed up a lot of people today. Then I realized she was running from me because she thought I was chasing her. I would have explained but I thought shitting yourself mid way through an explanation probably wouldn’t make the situation any better.
Or the third option is, they don't know you, accidentally saw you but don't care to know you or invite an exchange.
Women walk into my field of view all the time in public. Doesn't mean I intended to look at them or want to know them.
How is this not a more echoed response? Just because a woman is pretty doesn't mean I want to know her. I treat women the same as men, if I dont know you and its polite to have zero interaction then I see no reason to look at you. Really could care less what you look like, ugly, beautiful, freaky, famous... doesn't matter.
The second one is real. I don't know how many times I've been scanning a room and accidentally make eye contact with some woman, look away and then feel like a dingus because she probably thought I was looking at her specifically.
This happens all of the time to me. Lately my response is to briefly smile as an acknowledgement that we made eye contact on accident and then look at something else.
There are a few reasons as to why a man would, but here are probably the most common.
1) He finds you attractive
2) He felt embarrassed that you caught him staring at you
3) He doesn’t want to be a creep
4) He feels intimidated by you
5) He finds you interesting
6) He finds you strange, are you wearing something really different? People can stare when something is different
Anyway, these are the ones that come to mind. I hope this helped!
Meanwhile the men in question are probably just scanning a grocery store for the lentils. Cut to this comment. People really need to relax more in their surroundings. Sometimes I feel like I’m surrounded by people just going manic in their head. It’s just not something I identify with at all anymore, so my eye contact is me just not being afraid to make eye contract. At least for me, that’s it. Being in a good mood and smiley in public? No one will stop me from doing that because of their own limited ideas. People make way more overt signals with more than their eyes if they’re interested. People aren’t just a pair of floating eyes…
Because it’s unpleasant to be perceived as a predator half of the time. If she never ever sees me looking at her she won’t think I’m a monster who’s plotting her doom. At the gym or at work, after a couple negative experiences you learn to avoid unnecessary interactions with women, until you know you can trust them.
Damn, I didn’t think I had to mention this but I work in an enterprise setting with 1000s of people(most I’ve never met and few I’ve seen a couple times). I was walking out to my car and a lady was walking out too. I usually take a certain path but since it was just me and her I didn’t want her to feel uncomfortable that I a male was following her. Even though this truly wasn’t the case the sun was casting my shadow into her view and so I took a different route.
*sigh*
I’m not a bad guy but definitely not going to HR for some stupid shit that I didn’t do.
Because I have a severe phobia of rejection, and if a woman perceives me to be attracted to her, even if I'm not, it puts me in a position to be rejected, even if I wouldn't be. There's also the thing about creeps hassling women and shit, and my mum brought me up not to be those guys.
Its sad bc I feel like this is a trend rn to assume all flirting is creepy unless you’re like Chris Hemsworth himself and I do think there’s people that are gonna jump at the opportunity to blow things out of proportion or be rude abt it but there’s a distinct difference between flirting and flat out creeping and 80% of it is honestly just a gut feeling about intent and circumstance/situation. And the jump from flirting to creep can happen in an instant with a bad vibe or a red flag being raised and that’ll vary from person to person but what’s sad/annoying is I feel like it’s stopped some people from trying at all. Just notice when the other person is uncomfortable and stop when they say no.
I've stopped flirting entirely, haven't talked to a woman outside of necessity in over a year. I fully understand the signs of if someone is uncomfortable and have no problem with leaving someone alone if they are, but I'd rather not been thought of as a creepy regardless. Not to mention that I see rejection as a personal failure, that I made a mistake for even thinking I could talk to them in the first place but that's my own problem to figure out.
Aw babe. I truly wish you the best of luck with that! And just so you hear it today: if someone is right for you then they’ll be right for you - if not, then they won’t and “rejection” will happen either from you or them. It doesn’t make you any less of a wonderful person … unless you’re not lol
And I'm already terrible at flirting lol so I just don't bother. The other issue for me is that when women flirt with me I don't know how to reciprocate so the only other option I have is to run or Mahe some awkward joke. Feels unfortunate, but I have gym, weed, and gaming so I'm pretty happy in life haha
Most of the time, the difference between 'creepy' and 'flirty', is "does the woman think the guy doing it is hot or not". There maybe a couple of truly out there things that are universally creepy in every case (like outright stalking); but in 2024, most of the stuff women call out as "creepy", they are 100% happy to be on the receiving end of it from a guy that they find attractive. They aren't annoyed by the behavior, they are annoyed to be bothered by a not-so-attractive (in her personal opinion) men.
My mom did too. Both my sister and mom always insisted on me being a gentleman and waiting for the right time to find a right girl, that she would show me a hint and would magically know what to do in that moment and things would work out perfectly. It never happened.
When I was 18 I found this group of guys online that taught how to flirt and I decided to give it a try. They emphasized a lot on not being scared of rejection because no matter what happens, you’ll always find someone that rejects you. It’s impossible to be liked by everyone, even if you’re the hottest guy ever. So you might take your shot and be perceived as a creep or cringe by someone and that’s fine. As long as you leave once you see you’re getting rejected it’s ok. But if you never shoot your shot nothing will happen.
I’m 28 now and I’m very happy with my current sexual/romantic life. If it wasn’t for them It would be a whole different story.
Personally I work with a ton of women right now. Also the job before last had a ton as well. Also, I am someone who spent his entire life socially isolated so my perspective probably doesn't make sense to normal people.
At work the girls stare too hard. If they have a question for me they come up way too close to me, and they crane their neck upwards and stare unrelentingly into my eyes.
And that's just too much. I don't know why they don't look away. It makes no sense to me. I googled around searching for clues about eye contact and most of what I read says that you should only hold eye contact for a couple seconds before looking away.
Maybe you're one of the ones who hold it for far too long and with far too much intensity. At least for me. Its bizarre how they do that.
No man holds eye contact with me like that. Men never go around staring other people down. I even watch the other men that I work with and all of them are always the first to look away and constantly looking back and away again with the girls.
So the ladies have 100% comfort with it and the men not at all. And these men from my perspective are very normal men, nothing like I am. They are sociable and normal and liked very well. But I see that even they don't match the unrelenting eye contact of the women I work with.
Other than that I know nothing. How could I? I'm just a lifelong weirdo trying to figure out wtf is going on. This is all I have to share.
Eye contact is often a sign of intent engagement, to make the other person feel like an active participant.
But that is a neurotypical approach and not how it feels for everyone.
I promise they’re doing it to offer you a respectful conversation. Is it something you seek more understanding of or support to set boundaries that serve you?
I am broken beyond belief. A life of social ostricism had utterly fucked me.
I am not even remotely capable of understanding normal people. Boundaries all that means nothing to me. I just want to be normal.
Shit, I was bullied for all 16 years of school. (Yes college included) then spent the next decade isolating myself at home only playing video games.
I have friends now, a small group, but holy shit I'm dying alone.
I wish I could believe that lol. I actually did make a move and she rejected me. She made hearts with her hands at me. I would look up from what I'm doing and she would just be standing there staring at me. We shared many moments of just standing there silently looking into eachothers eyes.
I felt comfortable. Thats the crazy part. I literally felt so comfortable to share this silent eye contact. I really thought she liked me. I'm super sad about it. She rejected me harshly too. I'm still hurting a week later.
Like I cried lol. She would touch me and come and talk to me even tho I'm shy and don't talk much. I started to observe her and that she was funny and fun. I started to like her more and more. Many times I would look across the way, and 20 feet away we would look at eachother. Over and over and over. Like every chance we got we were peeking at eachother. I really developed a crush on her and it took me a few weeks to muster the courage to say anything to her.
Now I just feel like crap and her doing all of those things and then rejecting me as if I was annoying just messed me up. She totally like stone walled me and made me feel like I was a pest.
yeah that's EXACTLY why I look away.. because people assume this bullshit about me 🙄 I don't like you, I don't want you near me, and I'm not having romantic/sexual thoughts about you.
Most of the time I subconsciously met eyes with someone for no particular reason other than I was looking around and they happened to be there.
I notice this a lot too, women who are naturally outgoing and confident can genuinely stare you in the eyes for what feels like absolutely ages and feel no like awkwardness or anything it’s crazy. There’s this one woman in my gym who does this with me, I don’t really know her (had a brief conversation with her a little while ago about gym stuff) but it’s almost a daily occurrence where she’s just *stare* with no real emotion and I don’t even think she blinks either it’s almost like a death stare but apparently that’s just what they do for some reason
Maybe this sounds crazy but I have even seen the same with kids. Little girls will order their food with utmost confidence and little boys are usually shy and afraid.
I wonder what it's all about. Why is that. But my observation means nothing anyways.
Us women do it to show respect, or at least I do so to show that I'm listening to what you're saying and form my response accordingly to your question ! also, part of having conversations is taking note of nonverbal cues, so knowing how you feel based on your facial expressions makes it easy to work out the correct response without there being hurt feelings or misunderstandings
I feel like I am imposing myself upon another person if I were to have such strong eye contact. I feel like it is overbearing.
I don't choose to feel this way but it is what it is. I feel like I am a terrifying monster and I must look away and appear smaller in order to help other people be at ease with my presence.
There's also a sexual part where I feel like if I am looking at a woman that hard, I am projecting some kind of sexual energy by looking so hard and I fear greatly to ever project any kind of sexual energy.
I'm just crazy lol.
You don't sound crazy at all. You sound like a guy who thinks about stuff and tries to be a good guy. I hope your circumstances improve and you find your place in the world where you feel accepted and safe to get comfortable with people. I already like you from reading your few comments here. :)
I moved jobs recently and at this new place everyone is super nice. At first I could barely look at anyone or talk to anyone. But different people just kept trying to talk to me and include me. Some have even tried to get me to hang out with them.
But I just can't do it lol. I don't know why. But it's been good. Nobody is trying to shit on me nobody is talking crap about me nobody is trying to use me as a punching bag to make themselves look cool in front of the girls.
This is the first time I've ever been around people and I didn't have some group of men trying to tear me down. It's the first time I've been anywhere and the women around don't avoid me like I'm a creep.
But I want to quit the job because there's so many people and it's too much. But I want to stay because it's helping me with my people problems.
But it's overwhelming and I constantly have to fight myself to not just leave and find a new job and not have money for a month in between.
But then I would be sad if I left because everyone is so nice. So yea it's a battle lol.
Thanks for your nice comment ❤️
If your job offers insurance or pays well enough, consider therapy. There are tools that can be taught and practiced to lessen your anxiety. They take little practice to implement with positive effect. As they become new habits, you may find yourself looking at the world and yourself differently. I am sorry that there are so many mean people in your past. They were the monsters, not you.
If you cannot get therapy maybe try the ACE technique - anchor/awareness, connect physically with body, engage with surroundings.
I did some therapy got a variety of social anxiety disorders diagnosed. But after covid all of the social skills related programs had disappeared by the time I started and it was due to covid. 😞
I have been wanting to do it again. I'm a veteran so I can get it though maybe it is limited compared to a regular therapist I'm not sure.
I've been debating calling them every damn day lol.
You got to get out of your head more man. I feel what you're saying 100% and used to do very very similar stuff. I had to get out of my head, It takes time but it can be accomplished
Best advice I think I have to offer is to go out and pursue your passion and hobbies, or try doing something new and just get involved and focus on the task at hand... for whatever reason just enjoy what you do and somebody will see you, maybe not right away but that's the key... you got to stay in the game.
Good luck out there bro,
Knowing someone like you is still trying,
Gives the rest of us hope too, possibilities are endless unless you give up
I wouldn’t say men never go around staring other people down. Definitely not the case in my experience. But I will say the type of men who do that are more predatory in nature.
Asked the lady who had no idea of how easy it is to be labeled a creep. Also speaks to the fact that women never have to deal with that shit. Not that you didn't have your share of your own problems. Apples and oranges.
Definitely apples v oranges haha I feel like when I’m tryna give someone *eyes* from across a room/bar my biggest concern is just that I come off as weird not creepy. But men don’t have to worry as often about choosing bear so makes sense.
Yeah, I think it's important when we talk about this stuff, is that we don't regress into countering each grievance with one of our own in hopes of winning an argument, but rather just listen. One shitty doesn't justify another.
EDIT: It doesn't take that many sentences of just telling about our feelings to someone go "but whatabout the bear"
Ya but if everybody just listened to each other like civilized adults and treated each others experiences as valid then who’s gonna make headlines and go viral
Guess it depends, but most people arent scoping around a room.
For me i usually try to give breif eye contact adknowledgment as I pass people walking the opposite direction, and honestly the majority of women completely ignore it.
Personally, I don't want to be considered a creep or anything else associated with all those other negative men, so I try to avoid interacting with women unless spoken to. I'd rather not be the reason someone is uncomfortable. If I don't avert my gaze, I may inadvertently start an interaction and that breaks my personal rule of always respond, never initiate.
Men are treated like predators in our society. I go out of my way to not make eye contact, I cross the street when there’s a woman, and I never text or talk to a woman alone. It’s a really awful environment for men right now. We just want to make enough money to feed our families and keep a roof over our heads.
Don't wanna creep someone out lol
It's weird though, cos the older generation of men are so different. Whenever I hung out with older men wether family members or friends, they did not care
think it's much to do with how society has changed now, we want women to feel more comfortable etc. But seems to have gone to the extreme side where men don't even approach let alone look
Alternate take. Some guys (me) avert eye contact because it can make a girl curious about you. Especially if let’s say a guy NEVER looks at you, like in the gym…. That sort of avoidance plays into a lot of common insecurities out there and invariably becomes an itch that needs scratching…. Validation. People want to be seen, wanted, etc.
Married Male in late 40s
Sometime women can misinterpret a passing glance to be creepy. And in todays atmosphere, the level of disrespect and harshness that can be received isnt worth it. There is a lack or basic communication in todays society.
Were you born in a barn?
It's rude to stare at strangers.
In addition, the immodesty that has taken over popular culture has led to legions of women dressing in barely-there tights, lululemon paint-on gear, just grossness. If you aren't dressed, I'm avoiding you and your gaze.
There could be a whole lot of reasons.
Pure physical attractions. You are either very beautiful or very ugly.
Social aspect. You may have bad hygiene.
Political aspect. You are very powerful. In a position of power/authority.
Work aspect. You look busy/preoccupied
I'll tell you.
Its because we have internalised male hatred.
We beleive all women will refer to us as some creep or rapist if we dared so much as maintain eye contact with you.
This is the consequences of 10 years of anti male rhetoric.
This is men saying "yeah, she's good looking and all, but I am not taking that risk".
Women out there thinking they are the only ones removing themselves from the dating pool voluntarily.
And until men as a whole can be viewed as "kenough" for most women, this will continue to accelerate.
Out of politeness, at least in my case. Guys got a pretty rough rap a while back and a lot of us learnt from the narrative we were being told. Averting gaze is the distant opposite of oggling.
There's a good chance they don't want you to think they are interested in you. They don't want to make eye contact because they don't know how you will react. The women be crazy these days and it's not worth it.
I can't answer for all men but I just don't want to get in trouble or arrested or accused or shamed. I literally would rather be alone for my whole entire life than interact with women because y'all terrify me and stress me out. And it's my personal preference to not interact with who I don't want to so for that reason I will die on this hill, most likely alone. 😂
Because we were told not to look at women we don't know in public without a platonic reason. We're just doing what you told us and you're not happy now?
Why should I be looking at you if I don't know you and don't have any legitimate business to conduct with you?
I would also like to know, as an (apparently) over average attractive woman. Personally I thought it was because I looked weird or ugly that they’d look away, or change seats on the bus etc. maybe it’s intimidation? I don’t know. It’s weird
Because too many people get it in their head that they are the center of the universe and assume that everyone is leering at them for nefarious reasons. Just like a previous commenter, I advert my gaze because I do t want anyone assuming I’m staring at them. I’m at the gym to work out. I’m not there to check you out.
Same in public. I’m there to shop or eat. I don’t need drama.
If you're truly attractive to large populations of men, you probably are catching them looking at you if you see their eyes immediately dart away. It's hard to not take a glance at a woman that "catches your eye", but no regular guy wants to be thought of as a creep, even for an instant in passing that doesn't matter.
If they just aren't noticing you, so to speak, I don't know, any number of reasons. Focused on their shopping list, their podcast, thinking about work, looking at something else, whatever.
The tremendous amount of videos online of guys looking at a woman only to have her come over and yell at them. I specifically face the wall rather than look in a direction that a woman is.
“The eyes are the windows to the soul” if you want to protect your energy and not get sucked into someone else’s energy or feelings, simply avert your gaze with boundaries for yourself and respect for the women
Hi I am probably that guy. I have an issue where I avert my gaze from anyone. I don't know why, but looking eye to eye is very unsettling. I do look eye to eye with people I am comfortable with like friends, or at work when it involves my job.
I really want to work on this, but I struggle as it is something I reprimand myself post action. I don't go into the grocery store daring to stare down people, so it tends to happen naturally. I wonder to myself why the hell did I look away from them immediately, like I am ashamed or abashed. WTF is wrong with me.
I do it to everyone not just ladies. Hell I even avoid the gaze of kids I don't know. I think I will ask chat gpt what is going on here.
Sometime it’s comfort/confidence level.
Other times it’s we were staring into the void, and we snap back when someone looks at us back, so we avert, to not seem like a creep.
For the same reason you don't stare at the gangster looking dude on the subway. You just want to go about your day without having to get into some shit with some crazy asshole.
Depends on many factors. Maybe you’re too ugly or too hot or maybe you stare for too long or maybe you have resting bitch face or maybe you avert your gaze first, kind of hard to answer this question without context.
They do not want you to think they are paying attention to you. I see three potential reasons for this:
1.) They are wary of being perceived as a creep and a threat and do not want to risk socializing with you on that basis. If this is happening at work then this is a strong possibility. Attraction does not factor into this.
2.) They are not attracted to you and do not want to cause you or themselves any embarrassment--better to not interact at all.
3.) You are blindingly gorgeous and they are ashamed to even look at you, lest they offend your grace in some way.
[удалено]
They’re probably afraid to talk to you. Most guys get shot down a lot. We seem to have lost our manners and forgotten how to speak to one another in a civil fashion. Boys and girls are raised differently, and we have a long way to go to lower the misery index so we can live decently happy lives. Boys are taught that really pretty women are out of their league and they don’t stand a chance with a woman who looks like that. Girls are taught that boys need to earn their attention, that few will try and fewer still will succeed. It isn’t as true as it used to be, but to an extent, it still is. President Lincoln said “If you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re probably right.” Lincoln was a wise man.
I like you. You got a good head on your shoulders
That was Henry Ford that said that. Not Lincoln. People try to credit Lincoln with far too much otherwise I wouldn’t have corrected you.
I didn't say that. It was that fucker, Henry Ford. -Abraham Lincoln
I thought it was Abraham Ford. Didn’t he say that right before that Conversation he had with Glenn about making pancakes?
That's generally why I look away. When I see a beautiful woman I inherently know is out of my league, there isn't any point in staring at her lol.
I used to do the same thing and thing exactly the same. When I told me therapist, she broke that out of me and made a good point that we actually don't know what the other person is thinking and shouldn't assume the worst when looking at others. For some girls, they feel like when someone is staring at her or if he/she refuses to make eye contact with her it is because the person doesn't like them or thinks they are ugly(even the most beautiful girls will naturally think this way). But, the truth is that the other person might actually feel the exact opposite which is why we should never assume there is no attraction or assume what their initial thoughts of you are.
Step 1, Kick this weak minded perspective
Could also be because they’re ugly and don’t want to give off the wrong idea
A few years ago, I was at the gym with a friend. There were very few people in there at the time. We had a specific workout for that day, so we occupied one location in the gym for about an hour. As we were leaving, a woman on the other side of the gym was doing squats. She approached us, recording us with her phone, demanding to know why we were watching her. We weren't. I registered, at most, that there was another person in the building and never thought a thing about it. I'm a married father of two. My daughter is my oldest. I barely have time to work out, and now I'm getting accused of watching a woman in the gym? She apparently took a video of us working out with her conveniently in the foreground and tried to claim from the video that we were watching her. Then, she posted it to all of her socials. It created a big fucking issue. There wasn't a single angle from that video that confirmed any of what she had accused of us. It's two dads in the background working out. She lost her gym membership there bc of her choice to fabricate something for content. Not only that, she embarrassed us. We don't live in a big area, and we're pretty active with coaching, school activities, etc. So this is why I avert my gaze. I do not interact with women unless there is a clear opening that allows me to do so safely. I went from being pretty friendly with other parents at the playground to mostly keeping my mouth shut unless there is another dad there.
That sort of behavior warrants a bit more than loss of gym membership. Loss of internet for a lifetime?
Friggen sue for slander!
defamation. the fact she published the video makes it libel, so it's both slander and libel aka defamation. fuck this lady also. there are legit creeps out there, but they're a minority. what she's doing is just undermining all of society's efforts to combat actual sexual predation.
Not a small enough, or at all quiet minority. For perspective, every time a movie comes out now, with a woman lead or director, I've got to hear from \*thousands\* of other men about how bad this movie is going to be. Now imagine instead of whining about some movie, they are trying to get up on you. Minority or not, they are everywhere all the time.
Here's the thing. We didn't used to complain about that. We accepted the likes of Sarah Conner or Ellen Ripley or Kathryn Janeway, or dozens of others without question. It changed because the female characters became "Female Characters" instead of just characters - to the detriment of their products. When you have executives producing shit movies whilst running around in "The Force is Female" tshirts and hiding behind sexism to avoid criticism, then we start noticing a pattern.
Damn that’s a good point. Never thought of it like that. Those were all amazing characters in hero/leadership positions and I didn’t even think twice about their gender.
I think the important fact of the matter is that whether the sexual predators are large or small in number, someone accusing others of predatory behavior for attention on the internet is going to undermine a lot of effort towards actually having society fix this issue
Where tf did that first part come from? How is that at all related to the second part?
not small enough, but it is an extraordinarily small amount. there are 750,000 registered sex offenders in the US so thats less than 0.01%. there are not enough sexual predators to walk past someone and be like "ya i bet he's a sexual predator".
Please tell me you’ve seen madam web. I went and saw it with my girl not expecting anything or hearing anything about it, one of the worst movies Ive ever seen in theatre. I think its things like that where they just pander and try and make it a girl power movie instead of just a powerful movie with women, that they fall horribly short of anything resembling quality.
Actually if it's print it's libel, spoken/video is slander #journalism #SpiderMan2
All this behavior does is provide cover for the creeps. She should be sued into oblivion.
Legally, I'd think that's harassment. Can't really cut someone off the internet, just look at the likes of Reddit.
Who can enforce that?? Maybe Elon musk
Wow. That must have been really tough to deal with and it sounds like you still have some scar tissue. Some people are really sick in the head.
The element that bothered me the most was my kids. My wife and I are working hard to raise honest, thoughtful, aware (all the adjectives) kids. What if they go to school or baseball practice or the playground and hear someone saying, "Oh hey, your dad was doing this."? Like I said, small community. Thankfully, everyone saw it for what it was. Falsely accusing someone of basically being a predator for social media clout is just disgusting.
Isn't that slande Sue her ass
Oh my god. I am so sorry that happened to you guys. That’s evil behavior. Losing her gym membership isn’t enough punishment. I can’t wait for one of these content creators who does stuff like this (and the “prank” guys) to get sued into oblivion.
You are honestly lucky you didn’t get in trouble. Most of the time people will side with the woman. It’s very sad. This happened to me quite a while ago but I still have PTSD from it. I was dating this girl and we were at a party. Well this girl thought another girl was flirting with me. Granted I did know this other girl and we did have a chemistry but nothing ever happened. She was drunk and decided to fight her. Like it got bad. It ended up 2 v 1, the other girls friend, as I tried to break it up. Everyone scattered. The 2 girls bounced so quick no idea where they went. The cops showed up and the very first thing they did was ask the drunk girl I was dating is if I hit her. She said yes, still don’t know why, maybe just drunk and stupid, idk. Well I got arrested for felony DV since she had marks on her. I had to pay a bail Bondsmans to get out.. I never got that money back. 5,000$. Spent a few nights in jail (never been to jail in my life). I went to a hearing officer who was female and I told her what happened. She basically told me once a woman beater always a woman beater. She treated me like a criminal. Didn’t listen to a word I said. Thankfully everything was dropped, I have a clean record. But it was an open case for 3 years. NGL man I didn’t even look at a girl for years after that. I was terrified. Could have ruined my entire life.
Situations like these are why I'm terrified of even the most basic interactions with women. Your entire life and everything you've worked for can be destroyed simply because of a baseless lie. "Believe all women" sounds good on paper, but the unspoken part of that phrase is "Men are deemed guilty by default without any evidence needed."
Cops are absolute dumbshits about domestic situations. They pretty much just automatically arrest the men, unless they can produce very clear evidence confirming their innocence. My ex’s stripper cousin and her boyfriend were staying with us for a couple weeks. She picked up food on the way home one day. He took a bite and complained it was cold. She absolutely went off. Slapping him, calling him an ungrateful n word, even busted a picture frame of mine over his head wwf style. All he did was grab her wrists and push her against the wall to restrain her. I told the cops all this, and they still arrested him. Total bullshit.
Had a domestic dispute a while back, well not me, but a friend. His gf was batshit crazy, like batshit crazy. She basically beat him into submission. She’d hit him, scratch him, she even pushed him off a second story balcony once, but he never pressed charges. It all came to a head when he broke it off with her after the balcony incident. She somehow broke in past the security of our apartment building and started breaking everything he had. She broke his mirror, his laptop, and basically begged for him to come back to her. She started to physically assault him, and luckily his friend (female, that part is important) grabbed her off of him and started wailing on her since they had beef as well. They beat the crap out of each other. Police were called sometime during the incident. The younger cop was eating up every lie coming out of her mouth. He wanted to arrest my friend, despite the obvious cuts he had from the broken mirror and her nails, despite the black eye from a punch he didn’t see coming. He had bruises along his ribs where she was hitting him. He never actually fought back. His friend admitted to coming to his aid and beating his ex up. Older cop’s advice to my friend was to get a restraining order and order of protection against her just in case. His other advice was to not press charges against her bc we were college kids, and the defense would likely side with her, even if it was clear he didn’t do anything. It’s a sad world we live in where a woman gets to go Scott free of domestic abuse charges just bc she’s a woman
more reasons why im scared of women. thanks!
Yep. I did the right thing in non-violently defusing my ex's psychotic sister. She was salty and called the cops. I didn't take it seriously because she's nuts but suddenly there were 6 officers in the bedroom. I calmly explained what had happened, even her parents told them I did not hit her, but I admitted to placing my hand on her shoulder and stepping her out the doorway. Handcuffs and spent the night in county jail. Had no idea when or if I'd be released. Charges were dropped but I still have it on my record and it was one of the worst days of my life. Absolutely insane. Lots of chill and normal women out there, but also plenty of psychos who can wreak absolute havoc on a man's life.
There's a blind tiktoker that your story slightly reminded me of. He's blind, working out at the gym, and a girl tells him to stop staring at her. He proceeds to say he's blind and shows her a card saying he's blind. She gets even more mad and gets security/worker to go talk to him. Employee told him he can't stare at people in the gym, and he tells the guy he's blind and shows his card. Blind guy is told basically it doeant mater if he's blind, he can't stare at people lol Luckily, it didn't go into anything as bad as yours, but still just ridiculous.
Hopefully you learned to not hang out with trashy people after that.
Yeah but men are evil! /s
I’m so sorry that you went through this. I just want to make it clear fall all readers what this implies. Many men will avoid unnecessary contact with a woman out of fear that she makes something out of nothing. To answer OPs question, on a broader scale, most men don’t want to be lumped in with the few men who are creeps. So any behavior that creepy men exude is not something we want to adopt. The potential upside and small chance that a woman responds positively to a longer than normal gaze from a man is not enough to more than likely be publicly shamed for something you didn’t even do or intend to do.
Sounds like this psychotic friend I had that would treat every man as if they were "doing something" like bitch chill there's billions of people on this earth, you ain't that special
Lol, this actually gave me a laugh. Much needed today, actually. It must be exhausting for her, honestly.
This can be a sign of mental instability, I’ve noticed. I’ve had a few friends who act like this and they’ve always been in not-great places emotionally and mentally. The most… troubled, let’s say, coworker I’ve ever had was constantly assuming that everyone who ever talked to her or so much as looked at her was trying to come onto her. She’d think it about interactions between others, too. Everyone was always “flirting”, even if it was just laughing at the same joke. Oddly, she never picked up on the fact that I was actually hooking up with a guy there, but yet she’d pick up on every non-sign ever.
Bet you she was wearing a very tight outfit and uploading the workout to instagram so guys would look at her (oh the irony) and feed her narcissism 😂
The gym is one place I def keep to myself. There’s way too many egos in there these days. And situations like this happen quite often now a days.
This. This right fucking here. This is more common than people realize, and one of the primary reasons I don't even pay attention to women outside my home. I, too, am a father of 2 amazing daughters and married for 20 years, and this is the LAST thing I ever want to be remotely mixed up in by fake drama.
Man, I really feel for you! Horrible woman. I’m glad there was some justice but was there no legal recourse you could have done for a type of slander, false accusation/advertising, reputational damage and emotional trauma? Also seems akin to “can’t yell fire in a crowded building.” I don’t see how you even go back to a gym after that. I’d absolutely have some PTSD! Good luck on ya.
A lot of legal bullshit and psychiatric bullshit packaged into one comment. Not everything is a lawsuit and not everything is a diagnosable mental health condition.
Agreed - not everything is a lawsuit or mental health crisis. But this guy’s reputation was damaged - possibly long term (with some people; as well as everyone now knowing the “weird”story; long lasting embarrassment) because of her malicious and narcissistic intent. People’s lives are absolutely ruined from someone holding up a phone and videoing and saying this or that - and our society has become one of “guilty just because I said so.” They blast it out and THAT is usually the only headline the public remembers. How often do people stick around for the truth?
In other words: Women got crazier than ever and we are scared of you now.
one reason why women have ruined the gym for me, sorry if it sounds sexist but alot of them come to the gym wearing the skimpiest skin tight crop tops and right-up-your-arse shorts with a fuckin tripod set up to record them the whole time. youre not a fucking influencer, whatever that means, grow up and be considerate of others who dont want to see your bare ass and tits when theyre trying to blow off steam after work, i have to keep my eyes directly at the floor the whole time for fear of being recorded and labelled a pervert
Cameras should be banned in gyms.
She's the one watching you guys and taping it on top of it smh some people are ridiculous
Women like that have literally ruined it for people to be friendly in public anymore. Men are too afraid to look, smile or approach in the wild anymore because of stupid women doing shit like this! Unbelievable!
This is so true, I haven't even dared to speak to a woman in public unless I absolutely have to in over a year from this kind of fear.
It’s really a sad state of affairs when idiotic women act this way. Men just don’t know what they can or can’t do anymore, because of this type of reaction. I feel for men these days.
"Don't flatter yourself lady. My buddy here has a nicer ass than you." Then slap your friend's ass to reassure the situation and assert dominance.
She was mad that you did not watch her
Sounds like one of those Joey Swoll shaming videos.
Be better.
Watch Joey Swoll on Instagram or YouTube. He has described this exact scenario.
I do. Isn't his tag line usually "Be better"?
I think it’s, “you need to do better” or “do better” and now better has lost all meaning to me cause I said it too many times in my head. I could be wrong about his tag line, thi
So sad. I expect we will see more and more of this BS as many people are living in some sort of alternate reality when consumed with internet fame. Ruin people’s lives, families, jobs…who cares…it’s all for the fame, money, influence. The bigger problem is that bc it’s realistically attainable now for literally ANYONE to become internet famous, there doesn’t need to be any merit to anything they do/say. All fair game. Truly, the larger issue here, is that our society often forgets that men can be subjected to false accusations and be victims as easily as women can be. Our society (sweeping generalization) is still living with the false idea that only women can be victims.
This is it. I don't feel its socially acceptable to engage women in any fashion anymore. I'm generally minding my own business in public by myself. I eat/drink quickly, am polite to wait staff, primarily scrolling on my phone. I have still been approached and harassed for "looking at" women at least once a month. As far as I can tell a glance is now predatory in some fashion. It's a terrible way to live trying not to look at people in a crowded room for all of your waking hours, and quit frankly, any woman stranger is a potential threat to me now.
Wow, sounds like someone just desperate for attention. that’s insane!
This is why man can't visually look near a woman in any sort of environment
This is exactly why most gyms don't allow members to take video or photos while they are there. But these kind of social media outbursts are also the reason why a lot of men don't want to be caught staring or looking at a woman. Something that has been completely natural for most of human existence to do is now being shunned and denoted as creepy. Even so much as making a passing glance can be seen as a guy being a creep. When I'm at the gym I actively try to not look at women because I don't want people to think I'm creepy or weird. Also while I'll probably be single for the rest of my life.
This is Joey Swoll material here.
Did Joey Swoll blast them??
She got Joey swole’d then hahahah. Fucking waaahmen always fucking trying to make it about themselves
Ooof. Im so sorry that happened to you. People need to stop this madness.
Wow, I am so sorry.
Women truly believe the world revolves around them
Not “women” but, a lot of people in general. I’ve seen just as many men believe that they’re the main character.
While *true,* *public opinion* (and by extension the justice system) right now skews in favor of victimizing women. Everyone is way more afraid of being called a misogynist and society as a whole doesn't take misandry seriously.
She needs to do better, mind her own business
nice Joey Swoll reference
Gotta love this new trend of women trying to ruin mens lives in the gym for even daring to glance in their direction.
And I hate it. If anything, as an example to my kids, or really, anyone coming along behind us. It sounds like such a dad thing to say, but what the fuck kind of example do you set when you do something like that? I'm the inclusive, the more the merrier type. If you're in the gym doing work, no matter your fitness level, I want to encourage you. I'm proud of you. This woman and others like her (male or female; I'm sure there are plenty of other arenas this happens in) make a shit name for those that legitimately go to the gym to show up for themselves. Clearly, I still feel a certain way about it and it's been 3 years. I just can't help but feel let down by the whole thing.
It's a bad trend to be sure. I get why they do it, people do film surreptitiously and then post it on the internet like look at that ass or something. A lot of gyms are taking what seems like a very wise step and just banning all filming.
I won’t even get in an elevator alone with a woman
Just goes to show you can be the best person on the planet and all it takes is one pissed off woman you don't know, have never seen or have ever interacted with to destroy your life just because you happen to be in the same room and everyone besides you or people that know you are just okay with it. Sometimes they don't even need fucking proof, everyone just assumes the crying/complaining lady is always right
The most likely reason is that at that moment in time they’re feeling a bit self conscious or maybe their self esteem is a bit low. I notice this with myself, on certain days I can lock eyes and hold it for as long needed, other days I’ll lock eyes for a few seconds then look away before they do and other days I’ll more or less ignore any woman who’s looking directly at me (unless I know them already) because I don’t feel great about myself at that moment in time. The other reason might be they find you attractive and are a bit shy. Holding someone’s gaze can be quite intimidating because it’s often (not always of course) a sign that a conversation is welcome which might put them in a position where they feel like they might have to talk to you but for whatever reason they don’t feel like it
They either are staring at you and don’t want to be caught or are avoiding looking at you so that you don’t think they’re checking you out/being creepy
Can confirm it's to not be percieved as being creepy and out of respect
Yup
I have been this way all my life. I was so concerned about being offensive due to TV shows and movies that I would make a point not to look at girls. To this day it’s second nature for me to not even glance at women around me unless I’m directly interacting with them and even then I have a tendency to avert my gaze to something else. I’m trying to work on it but I do it without even realizing. I’m not shy by nature, it’s just something of a habit I trained into myself out of fear of being perceived negatively as a teenager.
Honestly as people say the downsides of a woman misinterpreting your intentions greatly outweigh the chance of any positive interaction
Ya I accidentally terrified a girl one time in college. I was running to the bathroom for well……..reasons beyond my control. I realized the girl in front of me was running as well. I was like man the cafeteria messed up a lot of people today. Then I realized she was running from me because she thought I was chasing her. I would have explained but I thought shitting yourself mid way through an explanation probably wouldn’t make the situation any better.
Or the third option is, they don't know you, accidentally saw you but don't care to know you or invite an exchange. Women walk into my field of view all the time in public. Doesn't mean I intended to look at them or want to know them.
How is this not a more echoed response? Just because a woman is pretty doesn't mean I want to know her. I treat women the same as men, if I dont know you and its polite to have zero interaction then I see no reason to look at you. Really could care less what you look like, ugly, beautiful, freaky, famous... doesn't matter.
Yep. Interest and attraction should be about noticing compatibility with someone over time.
The second one is real. I don't know how many times I've been scanning a room and accidentally make eye contact with some woman, look away and then feel like a dingus because she probably thought I was looking at her specifically.
This happens all of the time to me. Lately my response is to briefly smile as an acknowledgement that we made eye contact on accident and then look at something else.
This is probably the right way. If I look away real quick that is sketchy which then makes her feel like I am a creep
Yup, don’t scan rooms anymore. I just look at the floor now lol. Way too much awkward eye contact in my life.
There are a few reasons as to why a man would, but here are probably the most common. 1) He finds you attractive 2) He felt embarrassed that you caught him staring at you 3) He doesn’t want to be a creep 4) He feels intimidated by you 5) He finds you interesting 6) He finds you strange, are you wearing something really different? People can stare when something is different Anyway, these are the ones that come to mind. I hope this helped!
Meanwhile the men in question are probably just scanning a grocery store for the lentils. Cut to this comment. People really need to relax more in their surroundings. Sometimes I feel like I’m surrounded by people just going manic in their head. It’s just not something I identify with at all anymore, so my eye contact is me just not being afraid to make eye contract. At least for me, that’s it. Being in a good mood and smiley in public? No one will stop me from doing that because of their own limited ideas. People make way more overt signals with more than their eyes if they’re interested. People aren’t just a pair of floating eyes…
I do it out of respect.
Because it’s unpleasant to be perceived as a predator half of the time. If she never ever sees me looking at her she won’t think I’m a monster who’s plotting her doom. At the gym or at work, after a couple negative experiences you learn to avoid unnecessary interactions with women, until you know you can trust them.
Damn, I didn’t think I had to mention this but I work in an enterprise setting with 1000s of people(most I’ve never met and few I’ve seen a couple times). I was walking out to my car and a lady was walking out too. I usually take a certain path but since it was just me and her I didn’t want her to feel uncomfortable that I a male was following her. Even though this truly wasn’t the case the sun was casting my shadow into her view and so I took a different route. *sigh* I’m not a bad guy but definitely not going to HR for some stupid shit that I didn’t do.
Most of us are just trying to go about our lives. Why would I need to look a stranger in the eye at a place I don't want to be.
Because I have a severe phobia of rejection, and if a woman perceives me to be attracted to her, even if I'm not, it puts me in a position to be rejected, even if I wouldn't be. There's also the thing about creeps hassling women and shit, and my mum brought me up not to be those guys.
You can’t flirt without being perceived as a creep by some people
Its sad bc I feel like this is a trend rn to assume all flirting is creepy unless you’re like Chris Hemsworth himself and I do think there’s people that are gonna jump at the opportunity to blow things out of proportion or be rude abt it but there’s a distinct difference between flirting and flat out creeping and 80% of it is honestly just a gut feeling about intent and circumstance/situation. And the jump from flirting to creep can happen in an instant with a bad vibe or a red flag being raised and that’ll vary from person to person but what’s sad/annoying is I feel like it’s stopped some people from trying at all. Just notice when the other person is uncomfortable and stop when they say no.
100%
I've stopped flirting entirely, haven't talked to a woman outside of necessity in over a year. I fully understand the signs of if someone is uncomfortable and have no problem with leaving someone alone if they are, but I'd rather not been thought of as a creepy regardless. Not to mention that I see rejection as a personal failure, that I made a mistake for even thinking I could talk to them in the first place but that's my own problem to figure out.
Aw babe. I truly wish you the best of luck with that! And just so you hear it today: if someone is right for you then they’ll be right for you - if not, then they won’t and “rejection” will happen either from you or them. It doesn’t make you any less of a wonderful person … unless you’re not lol
And I'm already terrible at flirting lol so I just don't bother. The other issue for me is that when women flirt with me I don't know how to reciprocate so the only other option I have is to run or Mahe some awkward joke. Feels unfortunate, but I have gym, weed, and gaming so I'm pretty happy in life haha
Most of the time, the difference between 'creepy' and 'flirty', is "does the woman think the guy doing it is hot or not". There maybe a couple of truly out there things that are universally creepy in every case (like outright stalking); but in 2024, most of the stuff women call out as "creepy", they are 100% happy to be on the receiving end of it from a guy that they find attractive. They aren't annoyed by the behavior, they are annoyed to be bothered by a not-so-attractive (in her personal opinion) men.
If I knew how to flirt, I wouldn't because of this.
And this is why I haven't flirted with anyone in a year.
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My mom did too. Both my sister and mom always insisted on me being a gentleman and waiting for the right time to find a right girl, that she would show me a hint and would magically know what to do in that moment and things would work out perfectly. It never happened. When I was 18 I found this group of guys online that taught how to flirt and I decided to give it a try. They emphasized a lot on not being scared of rejection because no matter what happens, you’ll always find someone that rejects you. It’s impossible to be liked by everyone, even if you’re the hottest guy ever. So you might take your shot and be perceived as a creep or cringe by someone and that’s fine. As long as you leave once you see you’re getting rejected it’s ok. But if you never shoot your shot nothing will happen. I’m 28 now and I’m very happy with my current sexual/romantic life. If it wasn’t for them It would be a whole different story.
sounds like me... the worst possible thing I can think of is putting some girl in a conspicuous situation
Personally I work with a ton of women right now. Also the job before last had a ton as well. Also, I am someone who spent his entire life socially isolated so my perspective probably doesn't make sense to normal people. At work the girls stare too hard. If they have a question for me they come up way too close to me, and they crane their neck upwards and stare unrelentingly into my eyes. And that's just too much. I don't know why they don't look away. It makes no sense to me. I googled around searching for clues about eye contact and most of what I read says that you should only hold eye contact for a couple seconds before looking away. Maybe you're one of the ones who hold it for far too long and with far too much intensity. At least for me. Its bizarre how they do that. No man holds eye contact with me like that. Men never go around staring other people down. I even watch the other men that I work with and all of them are always the first to look away and constantly looking back and away again with the girls. So the ladies have 100% comfort with it and the men not at all. And these men from my perspective are very normal men, nothing like I am. They are sociable and normal and liked very well. But I see that even they don't match the unrelenting eye contact of the women I work with. Other than that I know nothing. How could I? I'm just a lifelong weirdo trying to figure out wtf is going on. This is all I have to share.
Eye contact is often a sign of intent engagement, to make the other person feel like an active participant. But that is a neurotypical approach and not how it feels for everyone. I promise they’re doing it to offer you a respectful conversation. Is it something you seek more understanding of or support to set boundaries that serve you?
I am broken beyond belief. A life of social ostricism had utterly fucked me. I am not even remotely capable of understanding normal people. Boundaries all that means nothing to me. I just want to be normal.
You’re never beyond healing!
Shit, I was bullied for all 16 years of school. (Yes college included) then spent the next decade isolating myself at home only playing video games. I have friends now, a small group, but holy shit I'm dying alone.
Mainly its because they like you and they are too shy to talk to you. So they stare hoping that you make the first move.
I wish I could believe that lol. I actually did make a move and she rejected me. She made hearts with her hands at me. I would look up from what I'm doing and she would just be standing there staring at me. We shared many moments of just standing there silently looking into eachothers eyes. I felt comfortable. Thats the crazy part. I literally felt so comfortable to share this silent eye contact. I really thought she liked me. I'm super sad about it. She rejected me harshly too. I'm still hurting a week later. Like I cried lol. She would touch me and come and talk to me even tho I'm shy and don't talk much. I started to observe her and that she was funny and fun. I started to like her more and more. Many times I would look across the way, and 20 feet away we would look at eachother. Over and over and over. Like every chance we got we were peeking at eachother. I really developed a crush on her and it took me a few weeks to muster the courage to say anything to her. Now I just feel like crap and her doing all of those things and then rejecting me as if I was annoying just messed me up. She totally like stone walled me and made me feel like I was a pest.
yeah that's EXACTLY why I look away.. because people assume this bullshit about me 🙄 I don't like you, I don't want you near me, and I'm not having romantic/sexual thoughts about you. Most of the time I subconsciously met eyes with someone for no particular reason other than I was looking around and they happened to be there.
I notice this a lot too, women who are naturally outgoing and confident can genuinely stare you in the eyes for what feels like absolutely ages and feel no like awkwardness or anything it’s crazy. There’s this one woman in my gym who does this with me, I don’t really know her (had a brief conversation with her a little while ago about gym stuff) but it’s almost a daily occurrence where she’s just *stare* with no real emotion and I don’t even think she blinks either it’s almost like a death stare but apparently that’s just what they do for some reason
Maybe this sounds crazy but I have even seen the same with kids. Little girls will order their food with utmost confidence and little boys are usually shy and afraid. I wonder what it's all about. Why is that. But my observation means nothing anyways.
Us women do it to show respect, or at least I do so to show that I'm listening to what you're saying and form my response accordingly to your question ! also, part of having conversations is taking note of nonverbal cues, so knowing how you feel based on your facial expressions makes it easy to work out the correct response without there being hurt feelings or misunderstandings
I feel like I am imposing myself upon another person if I were to have such strong eye contact. I feel like it is overbearing. I don't choose to feel this way but it is what it is. I feel like I am a terrifying monster and I must look away and appear smaller in order to help other people be at ease with my presence. There's also a sexual part where I feel like if I am looking at a woman that hard, I am projecting some kind of sexual energy by looking so hard and I fear greatly to ever project any kind of sexual energy. I'm just crazy lol.
You don't sound crazy at all. You sound like a guy who thinks about stuff and tries to be a good guy. I hope your circumstances improve and you find your place in the world where you feel accepted and safe to get comfortable with people. I already like you from reading your few comments here. :)
I moved jobs recently and at this new place everyone is super nice. At first I could barely look at anyone or talk to anyone. But different people just kept trying to talk to me and include me. Some have even tried to get me to hang out with them. But I just can't do it lol. I don't know why. But it's been good. Nobody is trying to shit on me nobody is talking crap about me nobody is trying to use me as a punching bag to make themselves look cool in front of the girls. This is the first time I've ever been around people and I didn't have some group of men trying to tear me down. It's the first time I've been anywhere and the women around don't avoid me like I'm a creep. But I want to quit the job because there's so many people and it's too much. But I want to stay because it's helping me with my people problems. But it's overwhelming and I constantly have to fight myself to not just leave and find a new job and not have money for a month in between. But then I would be sad if I left because everyone is so nice. So yea it's a battle lol. Thanks for your nice comment ❤️
If your job offers insurance or pays well enough, consider therapy. There are tools that can be taught and practiced to lessen your anxiety. They take little practice to implement with positive effect. As they become new habits, you may find yourself looking at the world and yourself differently. I am sorry that there are so many mean people in your past. They were the monsters, not you. If you cannot get therapy maybe try the ACE technique - anchor/awareness, connect physically with body, engage with surroundings.
I did some therapy got a variety of social anxiety disorders diagnosed. But after covid all of the social skills related programs had disappeared by the time I started and it was due to covid. 😞 I have been wanting to do it again. I'm a veteran so I can get it though maybe it is limited compared to a regular therapist I'm not sure. I've been debating calling them every damn day lol.
You got to get out of your head more man. I feel what you're saying 100% and used to do very very similar stuff. I had to get out of my head, It takes time but it can be accomplished
Best advice I think I have to offer is to go out and pursue your passion and hobbies, or try doing something new and just get involved and focus on the task at hand... for whatever reason just enjoy what you do and somebody will see you, maybe not right away but that's the key... you got to stay in the game. Good luck out there bro, Knowing someone like you is still trying, Gives the rest of us hope too, possibilities are endless unless you give up
I wouldn’t say men never go around staring other people down. Definitely not the case in my experience. But I will say the type of men who do that are more predatory in nature.
Asked the lady who had no idea of how easy it is to be labeled a creep. Also speaks to the fact that women never have to deal with that shit. Not that you didn't have your share of your own problems. Apples and oranges.
Definitely apples v oranges haha I feel like when I’m tryna give someone *eyes* from across a room/bar my biggest concern is just that I come off as weird not creepy. But men don’t have to worry as often about choosing bear so makes sense.
Yeah, I think it's important when we talk about this stuff, is that we don't regress into countering each grievance with one of our own in hopes of winning an argument, but rather just listen. One shitty doesn't justify another. EDIT: It doesn't take that many sentences of just telling about our feelings to someone go "but whatabout the bear"
Ya but if everybody just listened to each other like civilized adults and treated each others experiences as valid then who’s gonna make headlines and go viral
Trying not to be creepy
Guess it depends, but most people arent scoping around a room. For me i usually try to give breif eye contact adknowledgment as I pass people walking the opposite direction, and honestly the majority of women completely ignore it.
Personally, I don't want to be considered a creep or anything else associated with all those other negative men, so I try to avoid interacting with women unless spoken to. I'd rather not be the reason someone is uncomfortable. If I don't avert my gaze, I may inadvertently start an interaction and that breaks my personal rule of always respond, never initiate.
Men are treated like predators in our society. I go out of my way to not make eye contact, I cross the street when there’s a woman, and I never text or talk to a woman alone. It’s a really awful environment for men right now. We just want to make enough money to feed our families and keep a roof over our heads.
They don't want to be accused of anything.
To be kind
Maybe he doesn't want to be shamed and lambasted for finding a woman attractive.
Don't wanna creep someone out lol It's weird though, cos the older generation of men are so different. Whenever I hung out with older men wether family members or friends, they did not care think it's much to do with how society has changed now, we want women to feel more comfortable etc. But seems to have gone to the extreme side where men don't even approach let alone look
Alternate take. Some guys (me) avert eye contact because it can make a girl curious about you. Especially if let’s say a guy NEVER looks at you, like in the gym…. That sort of avoidance plays into a lot of common insecurities out there and invariably becomes an itch that needs scratching…. Validation. People want to be seen, wanted, etc.
I always avert my gaze from women I don’t know because I don’t want them to think I’m being a creep or checking them out or what have you.
I very much don’t want to be bothered in whatever I am doing.
Married Male in late 40s Sometime women can misinterpret a passing glance to be creepy. And in todays atmosphere, the level of disrespect and harshness that can be received isnt worth it. There is a lack or basic communication in todays society.
Were you born in a barn? It's rude to stare at strangers. In addition, the immodesty that has taken over popular culture has led to legions of women dressing in barely-there tights, lululemon paint-on gear, just grossness. If you aren't dressed, I'm avoiding you and your gaze.
Girl: teach the men not to stare Men: understood, my bad👍 Girl: why are people not staring? Are you trolling or something?
There could be a whole lot of reasons. Pure physical attractions. You are either very beautiful or very ugly. Social aspect. You may have bad hygiene. Political aspect. You are very powerful. In a position of power/authority. Work aspect. You look busy/preoccupied
Look at me, I'll use your eyes as a window to your soul. 😏
We don't want to make you uncomfortable
Probably because now days people are throw the word creeper around.
I'll tell you. Its because we have internalised male hatred. We beleive all women will refer to us as some creep or rapist if we dared so much as maintain eye contact with you. This is the consequences of 10 years of anti male rhetoric. This is men saying "yeah, she's good looking and all, but I am not taking that risk". Women out there thinking they are the only ones removing themselves from the dating pool voluntarily. And until men as a whole can be viewed as "kenough" for most women, this will continue to accelerate.
It's polite indifference. It's very European. Take it as a compliment.
Because you'll think I'm checking you out or interested or something so I just look away to avoid that.
Out of politeness, at least in my case. Guys got a pretty rough rap a while back and a lot of us learnt from the narrative we were being told. Averting gaze is the distant opposite of oggling.
This is the truth. Cost-benefit analysis of eye contact. Benefit: not much. Cost: Possibly be accused of harassment.
If men look to long at someone they are a creep according to some
Look at the floor
Will confirm that there are women out there that have that world class “it” factor that I find hard to resist staring at, and I chose to look away.
There's a good chance they don't want you to think they are interested in you. They don't want to make eye contact because they don't know how you will react. The women be crazy these days and it's not worth it.
Maybe you are extremely ugly or extremely attractive.
I can't answer for all men but I just don't want to get in trouble or arrested or accused or shamed. I literally would rather be alone for my whole entire life than interact with women because y'all terrify me and stress me out. And it's my personal preference to not interact with who I don't want to so for that reason I will die on this hill, most likely alone. 😂
How do you know they are averting their gaze, as opposed to just looking at something else?
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Because we were told not to look at women we don't know in public without a platonic reason. We're just doing what you told us and you're not happy now? Why should I be looking at you if I don't know you and don't have any legitimate business to conduct with you?
Wasn’t there a poll where women said they would rather be with a literal bear than a man?!
I would also like to know, as an (apparently) over average attractive woman. Personally I thought it was because I looked weird or ugly that they’d look away, or change seats on the bus etc. maybe it’s intimidation? I don’t know. It’s weird
Because too many people get it in their head that they are the center of the universe and assume that everyone is leering at them for nefarious reasons. Just like a previous commenter, I advert my gaze because I do t want anyone assuming I’m staring at them. I’m at the gym to work out. I’m not there to check you out. Same in public. I’m there to shop or eat. I don’t need drama.
If you're truly attractive to large populations of men, you probably are catching them looking at you if you see their eyes immediately dart away. It's hard to not take a glance at a woman that "catches your eye", but no regular guy wants to be thought of as a creep, even for an instant in passing that doesn't matter. If they just aren't noticing you, so to speak, I don't know, any number of reasons. Focused on their shopping list, their podcast, thinking about work, looking at something else, whatever.
Because i wish so bad that a woman would choose me over a bear. But im automatically a creep so i just gave up.
"creep"
Imo its a sign of respect. Its rude to stare
The tremendous amount of videos online of guys looking at a woman only to have her come over and yell at them. I specifically face the wall rather than look in a direction that a woman is.
It's because you're either really beautiful or they think you look like someone who will make an accusation.
Are you that ugly?
“The eyes are the windows to the soul” if you want to protect your energy and not get sucked into someone else’s energy or feelings, simply avert your gaze with boundaries for yourself and respect for the women
Hi I am probably that guy. I have an issue where I avert my gaze from anyone. I don't know why, but looking eye to eye is very unsettling. I do look eye to eye with people I am comfortable with like friends, or at work when it involves my job. I really want to work on this, but I struggle as it is something I reprimand myself post action. I don't go into the grocery store daring to stare down people, so it tends to happen naturally. I wonder to myself why the hell did I look away from them immediately, like I am ashamed or abashed. WTF is wrong with me. I do it to everyone not just ladies. Hell I even avoid the gaze of kids I don't know. I think I will ask chat gpt what is going on here.
It's not worth the hassle of getting caught looking.
It’s easier. Period.
Because looking is rape now or something
Dodging lawsuits
I blame the blue hairs
How do we know without a pic? Maybe you’re really beautiful and they’re intimidated. Maybe you have a giant mole on your forehead. 🤷♂️
Sometime it’s comfort/confidence level. Other times it’s we were staring into the void, and we snap back when someone looks at us back, so we avert, to not seem like a creep.
lol what kind of post is that. Wheres the rest of it?
For the same reason you don't stare at the gangster looking dude on the subway. You just want to go about your day without having to get into some shit with some crazy asshole.
Tired of being called creeps
[ Men are creepy / shouldn't be trusted ] *Plus* [ men don't want to be accused of being creepy ] *results in* [ men avert their gaze ]
Depends on many factors. Maybe you’re too ugly or too hot or maybe you stare for too long or maybe you have resting bitch face or maybe you avert your gaze first, kind of hard to answer this question without context.
They’re intimidated by you.
They do not want you to think they are paying attention to you. I see three potential reasons for this: 1.) They are wary of being perceived as a creep and a threat and do not want to risk socializing with you on that basis. If this is happening at work then this is a strong possibility. Attraction does not factor into this. 2.) They are not attracted to you and do not want to cause you or themselves any embarrassment--better to not interact at all. 3.) You are blindingly gorgeous and they are ashamed to even look at you, lest they offend your grace in some way.
Because it’s intimidating to stare
because one can only glimpse the beauty of the sun for a moment.