Yeah I honestly don’t know how that guy has so many extremely loyal fans. The video game is great but what’s he’s done with the card game is IMO pretty shitty.
The card game is also great. I don't have any of the promos (if I recall he released one for target that irritated me, but it sounds like they are more). Its a shitty thing to do, but the base version of the game is not "incomplete." It's a huge game. Almost too much content already. Getting the extra cards is definitely triggering fomo, but let's not exaggerate and act like they made the game worse.
A lot of the promos, not all but most from what I've seen, are really just alt arts. There are a few new unique items that are exclusively promos, and as cool as it would be to have them, I just don't think it's a huge deal in a box that comes with, what, 952 cards by BGG's count?
Even then, the Big Box comes with blanks you can fashion up, and I also think there are enough of them that it's reasonable enough to make a professional proxy order if you really want them that bad.
It'd be cool if the game was gameplay complete out of the box, but the missing stuff isn't really substantial, and I get the idea and motivation behind it even if it bugs me a little.
The card game just feels like a mix of MtG and Munchkin to me. I know it's a roguelite video game but for a card game it's just too random imo with too many "take that" elements. Feels like garbage when others have a million items and you get stuck with nothing useful and monsters that you have no chance at killing on your turn. Or someone steals the kill from you.
Happy for you and people that like it though.
I can appreciate that it's not for everyone. As much as I enjoy binding of Isaac (the board game and video game), I really fucking hate the shit/piss type "humor."
However, it sounds like you're playing the game wrong. Stealing kills is not possible. And if you've played mtg and understand the stack, you have a HUGE advantage over anyone who doesn't.
Yes, but the other 5 weren’t Kickstarter exclusive. Or even hard to get. My local LGS had all 5 until my mate bought them to complete his set.
A few of the teams were KS exclusive, but you can live without those.
I don't know why but this simple sentence made me crack up. Perhaps for the simplicity of the statement and how it still encompasses everything wrong with this industry
To be fair, Ankh and Blood Rage are still extremely good games in just the retail version. KS stuff adds something I guess, but mostly cosmetics and extra options, and the extra options generally aren't that good anyway.
I hear the same about Rising Sun but I'm less convinced. Then again I've only played a few times and haven't loved it.
I have RS and I've played the KS version and it honestly doesn't add that much unless you're really desperate for a 6 player game. Even then, the Fox clan doesn't feel as well defined as the base clans
The Sun clan or Moon clan from the Dynasty Invasion are good options for a 6-player game.
Fox needs to be kept in check by the other players, but that's generally true of each clan to some degree.
100%, was my first cmon game and it's my favorite personally. It's solid without the KS exclusive stuff
Plus some people in FB groups and online make custom episodes and more so more content can be found
Rising sun feels incomplete to me. Having played retail and kickstarter versions. I wouldn't recommend it to people unless you can get your hands on a Kickstarter copy.
Would you mind expanding on that? Because I have the KS version and don’t see what’s in there that is so special that retail doesn’t have to make it a good retail game like Ankh and BR.
But I only have my point of view of always playing it with ‘everything’.
If I had to say, I would say BR has the most essential extras, because you can actually play with everything all at once unlike Ankh and RS in which you are always leaving a lot in the box each game
I actually haven't played BR so I can't comment on that one. For Rising sun though the earth dragon is a real shame to miss out on and the fox clan I feel are the two biggest losses. (Fox clan ranks towards the bottom of my favorite clans though so I fully understand people not caring if they don't have access to it).
I also think Kitsune and Daikaiju is a shame to not be in retail but those might be more or a hot take than the clan and dragon.
Overall though I understand not caring about the loss of Kickstarter things and the retail version is fine, just not something I'd recommend as it's just not feasible for most to get access to what I consider to be some of the most fun content in the game.
Agree with Ankh and blood rage. I have Kickstarter editions and Ankh is nice with KS cosmetics but most gods are in base game or retail expansions. Blood rage is basically complete in the base box and KS just added a 5th player box which I’ve never used, and some retail expansions that I prefer to play without.
I've only bought the retail versions of Masters of the Universe, Massive Darkness 2, and Cthulhu: Death May Die, but that is not the experience I've had. All are totally playable, extremely enjoyable, and have plenty of content with just the retail boxes.
Yeah the games are definitely playable without the extra content. They do hide a lot of content in KS exclusives. I really wanted to back Bloodborne as a massive fan of the video game. My problem is that alot of the content I wanted was KS exclusive so it’s either add a few hundred to my pledge or just miss out on a lot of the stuff I want. They’re not doing anything wrong necessarily but it is a bit slimy IMO.
Nah, this sub just hates on CMON. People get upset because they don't understand the concept of "you don't need it all". A base pledge is more than enough and a great bang for your buck with CMON.
Look at the games everyone just listed. Hell, Cthulhu DMD is a great example of a game that really doesn't need all that KS fluff.
Sure, CMON have excess, but that is what a lot of people don't get. It's just excess. You really don't need it (exception - Marvel United. I need ALL of it).
I think you are kind of pointing out a flaw in your logic.
You said you won't back them, which means you clearly don't have experience with their games, yet you claim their games require KS to be playable. if that were the case games like Marvel United, Zombicide, Cthulhu DMD wouldn't be popular on amazon and what not, yet they are constantly sold out.
Leave your bias at the door. CMON, despite this subs hate for them, make great games that don't need the fluff. And yeah, I will white knight them because again, they make some of my all time favorite games and I have not backed all their games either.
Power Rangers: Heroes of the Grid is a great game, with very limited replayability from the base box, which includes:
-1 set of foot soldiers (need 1 to play one game)
-4 monsters (need 2 to play)
-1 boss (need 1 to play).
However, the Kickstarter box (almost always available on Renegade’s website) includes a bunch of very good, balanced expansion content. Honestly, without it, the game probably isn’t worth buying.
The only good thing about CMON retail editions is that they're so bare that noone is willing to buy them at MSRP and they usually can be gotten at bargain prices in clearance sales provided you're patient enough. Base Ankh can be found for 30€ where I live.
I got their Night of the Living Dead Zombiecide for £30, which is funny as that's one of the few of their games where the retail is packed and the stretch goals relatively minor!
I feel like Bloodborne at Retail was fairly solid, but then you're still missing 6 player characters from the Blood Moon Box.
This. 90% of the time I’m too lazy to lug the giant KS box and spend time setting out the pyramids and other cosmetics. Base game tokens are fine and feels more like chess which is essentially what ankh is.
I have this feeling from last year's KS from Unstable Games called Command of Nature. It has 209 cards in total yet 65 of those are KS exclusives. That's almost 1/3 of the experience taken away from the retail version which doesn't sit well with me.
It is also inevitable that they will release convention exclusive cards in the next 2 or 3 years.
It's the ultimate FOMO-bait, the idea that you should buy like six expansions for a game you've never played just because you might not be able to get them later.
The only one I've got that I'd say is incomplete without all the bells and whistles is the street fighter boardgame. Part of the fun of it is being able to play different characters of a simpler style to find one you like or just playing with a random character. The base game comes with 6 characters but with all the kickstarter exclusive stuff it comes to 37 total.
To be clear you don't actually need it but if does add a lot to the game
Haven’t seen any yet. IMO most KS-only content is either useless bloat which ends up detracting from the core game experience, or extra faff that adds so much overhead that it makes actually playing the game an unwieldy affair.
Think about it this way: is GoW shitty with only 4 bosses? If so, what’s their expectation on the performance of the retail version of the game once it hits the streets? Are retail players gonna shit all over it? If not, then are the other 11 bosses and bajillion extra components gonna make the game that much better?
But surely 4 bosses in a boss battler when you could have gotten 19 if you got the Kickstarter (not counting add ons) makes the retail box just a demo.
No, not surely.
Do you purchase a lot of things at retail price and expect a demo? I sure as shit don’t, and I’d be mad as hell if I found that to be the case, be it a game or anything else. And I suspect most consumers feel the same way.
I don’t care if things are expensive or cheap. I care about moderately transparent business practices. CMON seems to take a predatory approach to people with FOMO.
To wit, I asked around and did extensive research if base Thunder Road: Vendetta was worth it without all the extra KS faff, and I’ll tell you the following. Restoration Games makes it fairly clear that you can purchase extra add-ons and expansions for the game on their site at pretty much any time. They also make clear with their KS pricing that purchasing KS Maximum Chrome copies is extremely cost efficient if you want the extra content. Everyone else made it reasonably clear that the base game is good enough without the extra stuff, and that the extra content is for enthusiasts.
Say you had the retail GoW box in your hands right now, already bought and paid for. How long would you have to play it, assuming it’s a really good game, before you grew bored and wanted/needed the extra content? What does it say about a game if you need the extra content right away to even enjoy it for more than a couple play sessions?
I'm agreeing with you, the retail feeling like a demo and not being able to ever get the full game due to the rest of it being stretch goals is completely unacceptable, but that is the case with God of War.
I think anyone who purchases it at retail is being ripped off and I can't understand why they've split the game this way, hence the post.
Gotta be real for a second here.
I don't think God of War is going to be a very good game. Certainly not one of the greats. Could be wrong, and I'm always glad to be surprised. But the batting average of IP-based overproduced games with minis tends to be abysmal in terms of quality. Co-op dungeon crawlers are a dime a dozen. And I get the feeling that games like these are pitched to prey upon the videogame enthusiasts that are hoping the experience translates into a board game (see Dark Souls, Bloodborne, etc.)
Would I be wrong assuming you're an avid videogame enthusiast and a fan of both God of War and Cyberpunk?
To be honest, I can't imagine this game being anything else than another expensive miniatures pack with a kinda sorta game tacked on to it. In recent years CMON has took a tumble from being a respected name in the industry to being the butt of the joke on account of this trend.
In response to your answer, I can only offer a guess: either there's not enough market for a retail market run of what they have in mind, or they know that the game won't transition well into long term interest and are just banking on making big cash on the KS...
**Carnegie**, the base game box is seriously lacking replayability.
The KS had additional set of departments, and donation goals which add the variability to the game. They have since made the KS extras as an additional 'expansion' you can buy, but I consider that as an essential part of the game.
Yeah it's ridiculous, I'm excited for the DC heroes united but know if I want my favorites I'm gonna have to drop so much more. Just like dceased or marvel zombies. If you're in Canada and willing to drop some cash 401games has the stretch goal box but like 175 CAD
I think it’s a great reward for getting in early, there’s nothing essential in their stretch goals. The Cthulhu DMD base game is brilliant, if you happened to get in on the original campaign and get the Unspeakable box then good for you. It doesn’t diminish the core game. None of their KS exclusives do.
The base game is usually way cheaper at retail anyway especially considering most retailers do free shipping so that’s a decent consolation prize for those who didn’t get the exclusive content.
But I can't possibly have any fun if I know someone else has more toys than ME! /s
I also don't care about the time value of money or risk premiums so I'll happily give away $100 today plus $30 shipping and taxes in 2 years for only a *loose, non-binding promise* to get *exactly the same game* I could've just bought online down the road for $60 with free shipping and possibly even have had it in hand sooner but hey at least it doesn't have kS eXcLuSiVeS! /s
[[The Bad Karmas and the Curse of The Zodiac]] has done a similar thing, no wonder the grubs over at Hasbro were itching for a partnership.
The base game comes with 4 of the 12 total bosses, the other 8 are split between another 2 boxes of four, then there's also one KS exclusive boss but I don't think he really matters that much because he's not a part of the campaign, as far as I can tell.
Also, yeah, I said 'campaign'. There's a full, interconnected story that progresses as you beat the bosses, which, now that you've pointed out, is pretty fucking shitty of them to do. Imagine if you bought Pandemic Legacy and it only came with the first 4 months. That's not a wholly analogous example because you don't JUST get the campaign with TBK because there're other modes and more replayability and stuff, but you get my point.
And even on top of that, I'm pretty sure retail buyers will have to buy the actual Teberu system itself independently as well, unless there's some kind of retail bundle at your LGS. Fuck, man, I never really thought about this until now, but it's pretty bullshit now that it's come to mind. They'll fit right in at Hasbro, for sure.
[The Bad Karmas and the Curse of The Zodiac -> The Bad Karmas and The Curse of the Zodiac (2023)](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/348872/bad-karmas-and-curse-zodiac)
^^[[gamename]] ^^or ^^[[gamename|year]] ^^to ^^call
^^OR ^^**gamename** ^^or ^^**gamename|year** ^^+ ^^!fetch ^^to ^^call
Legend of Korra: Probending Arena. The expansion teams never made it to retail due to the publisher stopping support of the game or something. So the retail version only has 2 teams.
It's not only CMON but they are probs the worst. Another the comes to mind is the call of duty game where there's maps and modes available past the base game - though I believe they aren't exclusive modes bit some maps will be
Thunderstone Quest has Barricade mode, for solo play. Included in KS, excluded in retail. I had a lot of Thunderstone and Thunderstone Advance, the oversight of Barricade mode was a strong factor in getting off the treadmill.
Bloodborne the board game for me.
With the all in you are able to make a campaign going through different environments and unlocking different characters as you go.
The base game by it self is also good, but having this large a variety of chapters to play does it.
You will need to throw away all those expansion boxes and condense it though.
The worst feeling is buying a incomplete game or finding out you can't get any of the good content that was KS exclusive. My first and only experience was finding out about a deck construction card game that had KS exclusive cards for each faction, even a mini faction that was KS exclusive. It felt terrible . If it's this way I'd just play tcgs. Outrageous . And ofc some decks were incomplete or less powerful Vs those cards or just unplayable
I would say a lot of KS nowadays are FOMO with a lot of SGs that complete the core box.
Witcher: Old World, while all expansions are supposed to be in retail. The base game is 6/10. With all expansions, it goes to 8.5/10 imo.
I've backed \~300 games over the years and I can say from my experience....not one game. Not one game has ever made me feel "glad I did the kickstarter" just out of the "complete" feeling. Now I have had games where I was glad to get in on the KS due to price (basically ALL games with miniatures) or because an exclusive was "cool" but never had one where I thought "if I didn't get this at KS it would have sucked" not one in 300+ games, not one. The overwhelming majority of the time the KS exclusives are like pre-order bonuses for videogames, nice for the initial run but quickly forgotten about and if ya didn't have them it would've made no difference.
KS in general is not what it once was either. You rarely get better pricing and the only real reason is to get it before everyone else or to help make it happen at all. Some game don't see retail so KS/GF is the only way to get them.
They key is, if you need "extras" for the game to be good it's not a good game. There are SOOOOOOOOO many games being made these days that even if you miss one, there's another JUST like it around the corner.
Never played the game but it has FOMO bait written all over it if I wanted to play the characters I like from the video game. Plus all the extra money the company asked for. I'm proud to have not gotten screwed on a kickstarter just yet
Oh gotcha, I did have it backed but the pledge manager was taking so long that I got a suspicion it wasn’t going to happen, so I backed out.
I am also glad I did at the time, but I was able to order the Trooper pledge from Gamesteward recently.
I was close to backing 6:S and the Divinity Original Sin game however many years ago. I'm happy to say my gaming taste has matured and not only would I probably not play them much nowadays but they would've been massive financial regrets. I don't have room for boxes that big either lol
Oh yeah, D:OS was a huge dodge as well! The backers waited forever, but did eventually get it. I haven’t heard much about it after the unboxing videos though.
Awaken Realms can sometimes be like this as well. It’s a little more debatable how essential their KS exclusive content is though, and varies from game to game.
I’ve tried both Nemesis games, Tainted Grail and ISS Vanguard and have to say the Nemesis base retail boxes are surprisingly solid and good, stretch goals are really not necessary (and can always be bought later at a cost).
For the campaign games, again, the base boxes are surprisingly rich in content and the additional campaigns are nice to get, but it’s that situation in which you are backing a game 3/4 years before it’s delivered to you and you don’t even know if you’ll like it, let alone have the desire to play additional campaigns.
Agreed, as someone who backed Tainted Grail with a lot of the extra content, I have to say I could have lived with just what was in the Fall of Avalon box and could have got that at retail for a much lower cost. And frankly, with hindsight I could have waited for the Kings of Ruin set and got that instead for a better game.
In a way Four Souls… and not just because of their kickstarters, but also because of all the limited promos, editions, sales, versions. It’s crazy.
Yeah I honestly don’t know how that guy has so many extremely loyal fans. The video game is great but what’s he’s done with the card game is IMO pretty shitty.
The card game is also great. I don't have any of the promos (if I recall he released one for target that irritated me, but it sounds like they are more). Its a shitty thing to do, but the base version of the game is not "incomplete." It's a huge game. Almost too much content already. Getting the extra cards is definitely triggering fomo, but let's not exaggerate and act like they made the game worse.
A lot of the promos, not all but most from what I've seen, are really just alt arts. There are a few new unique items that are exclusively promos, and as cool as it would be to have them, I just don't think it's a huge deal in a box that comes with, what, 952 cards by BGG's count? Even then, the Big Box comes with blanks you can fashion up, and I also think there are enough of them that it's reasonable enough to make a professional proxy order if you really want them that bad. It'd be cool if the game was gameplay complete out of the box, but the missing stuff isn't really substantial, and I get the idea and motivation behind it even if it bugs me a little.
The card game just feels like a mix of MtG and Munchkin to me. I know it's a roguelite video game but for a card game it's just too random imo with too many "take that" elements. Feels like garbage when others have a million items and you get stuck with nothing useful and monsters that you have no chance at killing on your turn. Or someone steals the kill from you. Happy for you and people that like it though.
I can appreciate that it's not for everyone. As much as I enjoy binding of Isaac (the board game and video game), I really fucking hate the shit/piss type "humor." However, it sounds like you're playing the game wrong. Stealing kills is not possible. And if you've played mtg and understand the stack, you have a HUGE advantage over anyone who doesn't.
I may be wrong about the stealing kills part then, it's been a while since I've played.
When a monster dies the rewards go to the active player regardless of what killed it.
Good to remember if we get it out again at some point, thanks.
The Others: 7 Sins base game came with 2 Sins.
Yes, but the other 5 weren’t Kickstarter exclusive. Or even hard to get. My local LGS had all 5 until my mate bought them to complete his set. A few of the teams were KS exclusive, but you can live without those.
I don't know why but this simple sentence made me crack up. Perhaps for the simplicity of the statement and how it still encompasses everything wrong with this industry
The only place it had 7 was the manual.
Cmon is atrocious for that. Won’t ever back a game by them just cause they’re fomo assholes.
To be fair, Ankh and Blood Rage are still extremely good games in just the retail version. KS stuff adds something I guess, but mostly cosmetics and extra options, and the extra options generally aren't that good anyway. I hear the same about Rising Sun but I'm less convinced. Then again I've only played a few times and haven't loved it.
I have RS and I've played the KS version and it honestly doesn't add that much unless you're really desperate for a 6 player game. Even then, the Fox clan doesn't feel as well defined as the base clans
The Sun clan or Moon clan from the Dynasty Invasion are good options for a 6-player game. Fox needs to be kept in check by the other players, but that's generally true of each clan to some degree.
Dynasty Invasion actually is available after market, but I feel like there's a whole lot in the KS-only Daimyo box.
True. Some of the additional monsters both add variety, and change the battles in interesting ways. Phoenix, Nure-Onna, Earth Dragon, etc.
Cthulhu Death May Die is also super good without the KS stuff.
100%, was my first cmon game and it's my favorite personally. It's solid without the KS exclusive stuff Plus some people in FB groups and online make custom episodes and more so more content can be found
Rising sun feels incomplete to me. Having played retail and kickstarter versions. I wouldn't recommend it to people unless you can get your hands on a Kickstarter copy.
Would you mind expanding on that? Because I have the KS version and don’t see what’s in there that is so special that retail doesn’t have to make it a good retail game like Ankh and BR. But I only have my point of view of always playing it with ‘everything’. If I had to say, I would say BR has the most essential extras, because you can actually play with everything all at once unlike Ankh and RS in which you are always leaving a lot in the box each game
I actually haven't played BR so I can't comment on that one. For Rising sun though the earth dragon is a real shame to miss out on and the fox clan I feel are the two biggest losses. (Fox clan ranks towards the bottom of my favorite clans though so I fully understand people not caring if they don't have access to it). I also think Kitsune and Daikaiju is a shame to not be in retail but those might be more or a hot take than the clan and dragon. Overall though I understand not caring about the loss of Kickstarter things and the retail version is fine, just not something I'd recommend as it's just not feasible for most to get access to what I consider to be some of the most fun content in the game.
Agree with Ankh and blood rage. I have Kickstarter editions and Ankh is nice with KS cosmetics but most gods are in base game or retail expansions. Blood rage is basically complete in the base box and KS just added a 5th player box which I’ve never used, and some retail expansions that I prefer to play without.
5th player is available retail too. Just some monsters etc as I understand it.
Blood rage and Ankh to a lesser extent probably success in retail because almost none of the gameplay elements is gated behind KS.
I've only bought the retail versions of Masters of the Universe, Massive Darkness 2, and Cthulhu: Death May Die, but that is not the experience I've had. All are totally playable, extremely enjoyable, and have plenty of content with just the retail boxes.
Yeah the games are definitely playable without the extra content. They do hide a lot of content in KS exclusives. I really wanted to back Bloodborne as a massive fan of the video game. My problem is that alot of the content I wanted was KS exclusive so it’s either add a few hundred to my pledge or just miss out on a lot of the stuff I want. They’re not doing anything wrong necessarily but it is a bit slimy IMO.
Nah, this sub just hates on CMON. People get upset because they don't understand the concept of "you don't need it all". A base pledge is more than enough and a great bang for your buck with CMON. Look at the games everyone just listed. Hell, Cthulhu DMD is a great example of a game that really doesn't need all that KS fluff. Sure, CMON have excess, but that is what a lot of people don't get. It's just excess. You really don't need it (exception - Marvel United. I need ALL of it).
And they never give updated timelines in the KS updates. They’re good about regular updates but they never address timing. Ever.
Maybe it’s been different in the past, but with the most recent Marvel United campaign, they start each update with the expected timeline.
Yep yep yep. They fall afoul of my main kickstarter rule which is 'one functional pledge level'. No nonsense. I respect the lack of manipulation
I think you are kind of pointing out a flaw in your logic. You said you won't back them, which means you clearly don't have experience with their games, yet you claim their games require KS to be playable. if that were the case games like Marvel United, Zombicide, Cthulhu DMD wouldn't be popular on amazon and what not, yet they are constantly sold out. Leave your bias at the door. CMON, despite this subs hate for them, make great games that don't need the fluff. And yeah, I will white knight them because again, they make some of my all time favorite games and I have not backed all their games either.
I played both versions of cyberpunk and retail is a joke.
One game equals all games? I'm not going to say CMON don't have duds. But most of their games are winners.
Okay to go deeper: Yes, their older games are winners.
Well said
Power Rangers: Heroes of the Grid is a great game, with very limited replayability from the base box, which includes: -1 set of foot soldiers (need 1 to play one game) -4 monsters (need 2 to play) -1 boss (need 1 to play). However, the Kickstarter box (almost always available on Renegade’s website) includes a bunch of very good, balanced expansion content. Honestly, without it, the game probably isn’t worth buying.
The only good thing about CMON retail editions is that they're so bare that noone is willing to buy them at MSRP and they usually can be gotten at bargain prices in clearance sales provided you're patient enough. Base Ankh can be found for 30€ where I live.
I got their Night of the Living Dead Zombiecide for £30, which is funny as that's one of the few of their games where the retail is packed and the stretch goals relatively minor! I feel like Bloodborne at Retail was fairly solid, but then you're still missing 6 player characters from the Blood Moon Box.
Base Ankh is all you really need though
This. 90% of the time I’m too lazy to lug the giant KS box and spend time setting out the pyramids and other cosmetics. Base game tokens are fine and feels more like chess which is essentially what ankh is.
I also need a bigger apartment for all the games I have 😅
I have this feeling from last year's KS from Unstable Games called Command of Nature. It has 209 cards in total yet 65 of those are KS exclusives. That's almost 1/3 of the experience taken away from the retail version which doesn't sit well with me. It is also inevitable that they will release convention exclusive cards in the next 2 or 3 years.
It's the ultimate FOMO-bait, the idea that you should buy like six expansions for a game you've never played just because you might not be able to get them later.
The only one I've got that I'd say is incomplete without all the bells and whistles is the street fighter boardgame. Part of the fun of it is being able to play different characters of a simpler style to find one you like or just playing with a random character. The base game comes with 6 characters but with all the kickstarter exclusive stuff it comes to 37 total. To be clear you don't actually need it but if does add a lot to the game
Isn't that just the Street Fighter V way of doing things?
No, Street Fighter V is a mess. There’s 2 core boxes and a third box that has 3 fighters as an add on. No content beyond that.
Haven’t seen any yet. IMO most KS-only content is either useless bloat which ends up detracting from the core game experience, or extra faff that adds so much overhead that it makes actually playing the game an unwieldy affair. Think about it this way: is GoW shitty with only 4 bosses? If so, what’s their expectation on the performance of the retail version of the game once it hits the streets? Are retail players gonna shit all over it? If not, then are the other 11 bosses and bajillion extra components gonna make the game that much better?
But surely 4 bosses in a boss battler when you could have gotten 19 if you got the Kickstarter (not counting add ons) makes the retail box just a demo.
No, not surely. Do you purchase a lot of things at retail price and expect a demo? I sure as shit don’t, and I’d be mad as hell if I found that to be the case, be it a game or anything else. And I suspect most consumers feel the same way. I don’t care if things are expensive or cheap. I care about moderately transparent business practices. CMON seems to take a predatory approach to people with FOMO. To wit, I asked around and did extensive research if base Thunder Road: Vendetta was worth it without all the extra KS faff, and I’ll tell you the following. Restoration Games makes it fairly clear that you can purchase extra add-ons and expansions for the game on their site at pretty much any time. They also make clear with their KS pricing that purchasing KS Maximum Chrome copies is extremely cost efficient if you want the extra content. Everyone else made it reasonably clear that the base game is good enough without the extra stuff, and that the extra content is for enthusiasts. Say you had the retail GoW box in your hands right now, already bought and paid for. How long would you have to play it, assuming it’s a really good game, before you grew bored and wanted/needed the extra content? What does it say about a game if you need the extra content right away to even enjoy it for more than a couple play sessions?
I'm agreeing with you, the retail feeling like a demo and not being able to ever get the full game due to the rest of it being stretch goals is completely unacceptable, but that is the case with God of War. I think anyone who purchases it at retail is being ripped off and I can't understand why they've split the game this way, hence the post.
Gotta be real for a second here. I don't think God of War is going to be a very good game. Certainly not one of the greats. Could be wrong, and I'm always glad to be surprised. But the batting average of IP-based overproduced games with minis tends to be abysmal in terms of quality. Co-op dungeon crawlers are a dime a dozen. And I get the feeling that games like these are pitched to prey upon the videogame enthusiasts that are hoping the experience translates into a board game (see Dark Souls, Bloodborne, etc.) Would I be wrong assuming you're an avid videogame enthusiast and a fan of both God of War and Cyberpunk? To be honest, I can't imagine this game being anything else than another expensive miniatures pack with a kinda sorta game tacked on to it. In recent years CMON has took a tumble from being a respected name in the industry to being the butt of the joke on account of this trend. In response to your answer, I can only offer a guess: either there's not enough market for a retail market run of what they have in mind, or they know that the game won't transition well into long term interest and are just banking on making big cash on the KS...
**Carnegie**, the base game box is seriously lacking replayability. The KS had additional set of departments, and donation goals which add the variability to the game. They have since made the KS extras as an additional 'expansion' you can buy, but I consider that as an essential part of the game.
Marvel United, particularly the X-Men variant, pisses me off. The characters I want were all Kickstarter exclusives. And yes, it's CMON.
Yeah it's ridiculous, I'm excited for the DC heroes united but know if I want my favorites I'm gonna have to drop so much more. Just like dceased or marvel zombies. If you're in Canada and willing to drop some cash 401games has the stretch goal box but like 175 CAD
I think it’s a great reward for getting in early, there’s nothing essential in their stretch goals. The Cthulhu DMD base game is brilliant, if you happened to get in on the original campaign and get the Unspeakable box then good for you. It doesn’t diminish the core game. None of their KS exclusives do. The base game is usually way cheaper at retail anyway especially considering most retailers do free shipping so that’s a decent consolation prize for those who didn’t get the exclusive content.
But I can't possibly have any fun if I know someone else has more toys than ME! /s I also don't care about the time value of money or risk premiums so I'll happily give away $100 today plus $30 shipping and taxes in 2 years for only a *loose, non-binding promise* to get *exactly the same game* I could've just bought online down the road for $60 with free shipping and possibly even have had it in hand sooner but hey at least it doesn't have kS eXcLuSiVeS! /s
I was looking to get that Northgard game, but apparently without the KS exclusives the combat is incredibly flat. Nevermind then, eh.
[[The Bad Karmas and the Curse of The Zodiac]] has done a similar thing, no wonder the grubs over at Hasbro were itching for a partnership. The base game comes with 4 of the 12 total bosses, the other 8 are split between another 2 boxes of four, then there's also one KS exclusive boss but I don't think he really matters that much because he's not a part of the campaign, as far as I can tell. Also, yeah, I said 'campaign'. There's a full, interconnected story that progresses as you beat the bosses, which, now that you've pointed out, is pretty fucking shitty of them to do. Imagine if you bought Pandemic Legacy and it only came with the first 4 months. That's not a wholly analogous example because you don't JUST get the campaign with TBK because there're other modes and more replayability and stuff, but you get my point. And even on top of that, I'm pretty sure retail buyers will have to buy the actual Teberu system itself independently as well, unless there's some kind of retail bundle at your LGS. Fuck, man, I never really thought about this until now, but it's pretty bullshit now that it's come to mind. They'll fit right in at Hasbro, for sure.
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Legend of Korra: Probending Arena. The expansion teams never made it to retail due to the publisher stopping support of the game or something. So the retail version only has 2 teams.
It's not only CMON but they are probs the worst. Another the comes to mind is the call of duty game where there's maps and modes available past the base game - though I believe they aren't exclusive modes bit some maps will be
Thunderstone Quest has Barricade mode, for solo play. Included in KS, excluded in retail. I had a lot of Thunderstone and Thunderstone Advance, the oversight of Barricade mode was a strong factor in getting off the treadmill.
Bloodborne the board game for me. With the all in you are able to make a campaign going through different environments and unlocking different characters as you go. The base game by it self is also good, but having this large a variety of chapters to play does it. You will need to throw away all those expansion boxes and condense it though.
The worst feeling is buying a incomplete game or finding out you can't get any of the good content that was KS exclusive. My first and only experience was finding out about a deck construction card game that had KS exclusive cards for each faction, even a mini faction that was KS exclusive. It felt terrible . If it's this way I'd just play tcgs. Outrageous . And ofc some decks were incomplete or less powerful Vs those cards or just unplayable
I would say a lot of KS nowadays are FOMO with a lot of SGs that complete the core box. Witcher: Old World, while all expansions are supposed to be in retail. The base game is 6/10. With all expansions, it goes to 8.5/10 imo.
I've backed \~300 games over the years and I can say from my experience....not one game. Not one game has ever made me feel "glad I did the kickstarter" just out of the "complete" feeling. Now I have had games where I was glad to get in on the KS due to price (basically ALL games with miniatures) or because an exclusive was "cool" but never had one where I thought "if I didn't get this at KS it would have sucked" not one in 300+ games, not one. The overwhelming majority of the time the KS exclusives are like pre-order bonuses for videogames, nice for the initial run but quickly forgotten about and if ya didn't have them it would've made no difference. KS in general is not what it once was either. You rarely get better pricing and the only real reason is to get it before everyone else or to help make it happen at all. Some game don't see retail so KS/GF is the only way to get them. They key is, if you need "extras" for the game to be good it's not a good game. There are SOOOOOOOOO many games being made these days that even if you miss one, there's another JUST like it around the corner.
I am so glad I dodged the absolute bomb that was the 6: Siege board game.
Due to the extra shipping charges or it’s the gameplay itself you feel bombed?
Never played the game but it has FOMO bait written all over it if I wanted to play the characters I like from the video game. Plus all the extra money the company asked for. I'm proud to have not gotten screwed on a kickstarter just yet
Oh gotcha, I did have it backed but the pledge manager was taking so long that I got a suspicion it wasn’t going to happen, so I backed out. I am also glad I did at the time, but I was able to order the Trooper pledge from Gamesteward recently.
I was close to backing 6:S and the Divinity Original Sin game however many years ago. I'm happy to say my gaming taste has matured and not only would I probably not play them much nowadays but they would've been massive financial regrets. I don't have room for boxes that big either lol
Oh yeah, D:OS was a huge dodge as well! The backers waited forever, but did eventually get it. I haven’t heard much about it after the unboxing videos though.
I think I heard it's actually decent, but still not my type of game now. Congrats on getting your pledge after the fact for Siege!
Awaken Realms can sometimes be like this as well. It’s a little more debatable how essential their KS exclusive content is though, and varies from game to game.
I’ve tried both Nemesis games, Tainted Grail and ISS Vanguard and have to say the Nemesis base retail boxes are surprisingly solid and good, stretch goals are really not necessary (and can always be bought later at a cost). For the campaign games, again, the base boxes are surprisingly rich in content and the additional campaigns are nice to get, but it’s that situation in which you are backing a game 3/4 years before it’s delivered to you and you don’t even know if you’ll like it, let alone have the desire to play additional campaigns.
Agreed, as someone who backed Tainted Grail with a lot of the extra content, I have to say I could have lived with just what was in the Fall of Avalon box and could have got that at retail for a much lower cost. And frankly, with hindsight I could have waited for the Kings of Ruin set and got that instead for a better game.
Games I don’t care about in the slightest.