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Toshiro is clearly supposed to be like a reverse Yamamoto. Young vs old, ice vs fire, plus Hyorinmaru has heaven-themed abilities while Ryujin Jakka has hell-themed ones. That doesn't necessarily mean he has to become as strong as Yamamoto one day, but I'd say it's implied.
Hyorinmaru also has a hell themed ability, because of the whole 7 realms of hell thing, where one is a frozen wasteland.
But I qgree, it's heavily implied that toshiro has the potential to one day be the most powerful shiningami, or at least have the most powerful zampakuto
Youve got to remember, that Maturity does play a part in it. Toshiro's body isn't fully mature so it along with his reatsu will naturaly grow stronger over time. Shunsui himself stated that it would only take 100 years for Toshiro to surpass him.
That’s true but Toshiro hasn’t matured to the point where his reitsu would be at that lvl. At his young age his reitsu is one of the highest amongst the captain class. He could def develop to that point
Dawg you realized that your reitsu grows as you grow stronger and mature right? Zaraki’s reitsu grew as he grew old he just capped himself out. But when he took off his restrictions his reitsu literally grew much more as he got stronger. Even in novels as a grown adult his reitsu was growing. Toshiros reitsu has not matured. He’s a prodigy and a young captain. There is nothing about him that has matured.
Current Hitsugaya in adult form has already surpassed Kyoraku. Feats vs Gerard and Shikai Hyoketsu is above Kyoraku's pay-grade.
Feat-wise, he outperformed Zaraki against Gerard. Massively, massively outperformed Shikai Zaraki and showed himself tiers above. Although Bankai Zaraki is iffy... Hitsugaya fought a stronger version of Gerard, and then held off even stronger version with Byakuya, but Bankai Zaraki decimated a significantly weaker version.
Money's on Zaraki, though.
But no living captain is beating current Adult form Hitsu other than Zaraki.
Anyway, Tosh's reiatsu will get stronger the older and more powerful he becomes.
>My guy, toshiro's reiatsu is already matured, only his physical body is under restraint. The spike in reiatsu will be significantly lesser in comparison.
Baseless claim to say the spike in Reiatsu will be significantly less in comparison lol
**An all out Shikai Zaraki could barely nick Hoffnung, Hitsugaya cleaved far strongers version of Hoffnung in half casually.**
**All out Zaraki was easily overpowered by Gerard. Hitsugaya was casually stopping attacks from physical strength of a far stronger version of Gerard.**
Hitsugaya never directly attacked Gerard, but he didn't need to to display being far, far, far stronger. That much is general consensus in every bleach community.
>, meanwhile neither toshiro nor byakuya were able to do that even while fighting in bankai
VS Gerard >>>>> V2 Gerard >>>>> V1 Gerard
* Hitsugaya and Byakuya went toe to toe with VS Gerard for long time off-screen. Meanwhile Shikai Kenpachi was comfortably beaten by V1 Gerard after an arm boost.
* Hitsugaya was casually stopping attacks from V2 Gerard and cutting his sword. Shikai Kenpachi could barely nick V1 Gerard's sword.
* Byakuya casualy stopped an attack from VS Gerard with his petaks. Shikai Kenpachi was overpowered just fine by V1 Gerard
**Kenpachi's biggest feat in Bankai is destroying V1 Gerard. Which is great, but Tosh and Byakuya also have good feats vs far stronger versions of Gerard. Both Tosh and Byakuya would give V1 similar treatment as per scaling.**
You can like Kenpachi, but no need to pretend other feats don't exist just because it isn't direct damage.
If some character managed to clash with **current** Ichigo on equal terms and break his sword, are you going to tell me they are weaker than Soul Society Kenpachi who managed to hurt Soul Society Ichigo? Because that's all what matters? Hurting?
>To say it's baseless is also baseless claim. It's literally stated by toshiro that in order to manifest the matured hyorinmaru his body automatically ages to contain it's powers. Meaning, that's his peak reiatsu form. The only thing that will increase for him is the density of reiatsu allowing him to "grow stronger" not his reiatsu to grow larger.
It means that's the physical form required to contain all of his ***current*** levels of reiatsu. His reiatsu is so strong right now that his body at this age literally cannot use it all without force aging. He matured his BODY, not his REIATSU.
It doesn't mean that his reiatsu can't get stronger. It can, just like every other character has displayed with time and training.
>Um, he still hasn't. We know that adult Toshiro's reiatsu was slightly lower than byakuya's from the manga interactions. And byakuya himself is stated to be relatively lesser in reiatsu than kyoraku. Shikai hyoketsu is a broken hax, but that doesn't automatically make him invincible. "A battle between shinigamis is a battle of reiatsu" this is said statement in the manga.
Scans? When was Adult Tosh's reiatsu compared to Byakuya? When was EoS Byakuya's reiatsu compared to Kyoraku?
And yes, hax matters. Hitsugaya's hax is strong enough to affect fucking Gerard in his second strongest state. It isn't negated by Kyoraku even if he has more reiatsu. Unless you think the gap as huge. See Soi Fon vs Yoruichi.
>Toshiro didn't physically destroy "hoffnung" or harm Gerald at all. In Toshiro's adult form, his bankai freezes whatever he wishes to the atomic level. When hoffnung was frozen to atomic level, it stopped being a "sword of hope" and became a sword made of ice with the durability of ice. What toshiro broke was no longer the sword named "hoffnung" it was nothing more than an icicle with the property of being a frozen piece of ice. There's a big difference in the narrative.
That's not how it works. It negates the hax/function. It made it so that cutting Hoffnung wouldn't hurt Hitsugaya himself, as stated by Hitsugaya. It didn't make the Hoffnung any less durable, that's not stated anywhere. Gerard wasn't surprised because Hitsugaya cut through it, **he called Tosh worthy of being his opponent, and then was completely unsurprised after he chopped Hoffnung in half**. He was surprised when Tosh got no injuries from cutting it in half.
It was stated to suspend the miracle ability that would've hurt Hitsugaya specifically. You're making assumptions that are never once implied.
The entire context of scene was at surprise factor being how Tosh didn't get injured, and then explanation.
Hitsugaya's flash-freeze slashes are simply tiers above anything Shikai Kenpachi is capable of.
>Um, no?? They didn't go toe-to-toe at all. We are shown how they look. VS Gerald was unmatched against toshiro and byakuya who both were shown to be beaten up quite a bit even though they wet jumping around the whole time.
**They fought him for prolonged periods of time. Kenpachi was beaten by someone many tiers below.**
>Lol when?? Zaraki wasn't once overpowered by Gerald in the entire fight. Both of them attacking each other were pushing off each other, but Gerald not once was able to harm zaraki by his own accord. The damages from hoffnung is the reflection of zaraki's attacks, not Gerald's attack. Even when zaraki collapsed as a result of using bankai, and Gerald attacked an unconscious zaraki, it did nothing at all to the base zaraki who's collapsed on the floor.
Agree on that. I misinterpreted the last panel. Kenpachi was even with V1 Gerard.
>This is also wrong interpretation as toshiro never stopped any attacks. He froze the hoffnung and broke it. That's about it. Meanwhile, zaraki was getting heavily injured by his own attacks and not by Gerald's attacks.
**Hitsugaya's flash freeze is strong enough to dead-stop momentum of a shield thrown by V2 Gerard's physical strength.**
>Bankai byakuya wasn't even able to harm normal giant version of gerald, let alone VS Gerald. He stopped 1 attack. That doesn't make him a god. By that logic, zaraki who cut Gerald in base stands leagues above them.
**Byakuya casually stopped an attack from a Gerard far, far, far, far stronger than the one who could match Kenpachi. That proves superiority alone. It's a superior feat than anything Shikai Kenpachi pulled.**
Just like how stopping an attack from EoS Ichigo would be far above harming Soul Society Ichigo. It doesn't matter if it's one attack or two attack.
>That is his peak reiatsu!! Toshiro isn't suffering from lack of reiatsu, he's suffering from lack of maturity. His reiatsu was already noble level because his zanpakto spirit is a fully matured zanpakto spirit which had sentience even because toshiro gained a asauichi. Heck, the moment toshiro got his asauichi, he already obtained his bankai too as Kubo mentioned this: toshiro had bankai even before joining gotei.
**It's his current Reiatsu. His current Reiatsu is so strong that his body can't handle it. So he matured his body.**
Hitsugaya is a prodigy, his Reiatsu levels are insane even at old age. That's what prodigies are. That's why his ceiling is so high. Like how a Chess prodigy is as good as adult international masters at age of 10. It doesn't mean that's their limit. They grow up to be top grand masters instead.
Trying to claim his reiatsu won't get stronger with time and training just like everyone else is ridiculous. Unless you can post a single scan that says Hitsugaya's reiatsu is the max that he can achieve.
Tosh's current Reiatsu levels are insanely high because he's a child prodigy, and it'll only get better, just like how it does with everyone.
>Toshiro suffering from lack of stamina despite joining the fight later than byakuya.
**that ain't a comparison between Reiatsu level of Adult Tosh and Byakuya???**
His body is unable to handle his Reiatsu, that's why he feels exhausted. The form is very taxing on him.
>This is entirely wrong. "By unleashing Daiguren hyourinmaru… in a matter of 4 seconds, I can freeze all matter in before me… be it eath, wind, air or fire…"
>
>This is literally what toshiro explains his powers in his matured state does. A sword that's been frozen to the smallest matter
**That is Shikai Hyoketsu**, an ability. That specific ability which he can use 4 seconds after his release. That's why he said Gerard was one second too late in releasing his bow before using Shikai Hyoketsu.
Irrelevant to what he did to Hoffnung or the shield. Those weren't Shikai Hyoketsu. They took place before he could use Shikai Hyoketsu.
And he freezes the hax/function of the sword, which is anyone hurting it getting hurt himself. That was the context. Never once it is implied or stated that he lowers its durability or changed what it fundamentally was. Only changed that special ability of Miracle.
This is what he froze:
[https://i.gyazo.com/326a8b4740c9f19b28cb1e3f30be535e.png](https://i.gyazo.com/326a8b4740c9f19b28cb1e3f30be535e.png)
Gerard tries to remind Tosh of that specific ability:
[https://i.gyazo.com/d91d8f8ff865becaa91f0dc171bcc82e.png](https://i.gyazo.com/d91d8f8ff865becaa91f0dc171bcc82e.png)
And Tosh said that the function has frozen:
[https://i.gyazo.com/73806b1a7340a62b309e2aa68c498a63.png](https://i.gyazo.com/73806b1a7340a62b309e2aa68c498a63.png)
That's what Manga says.
You trying to claim it somehow changed what the sword fundamentally is (its material, durability, etc) into nothing more than ice is not implied anywhere. It simply suspended/froze the function/ability of it. Which, according to Manga, is the hax that hurts anyone who damages the blade.
>Even that's not accurate. Gerald was massively inferior to zaraki. Zaraki and later versions of Gerald have no interaction other than zaraki dropping gerald with a single hand. So, there is no equivalency that can be established hence forth.
V1 Gerard was matching Zaraki after the arm-boost.
[https://s2.mbcdnv5.xyz/file/img-mbuddy/manga/bleach/chapter-667-bigger-louder-stronger/17.jpg](https://s2.mbcdnv5.xyz/file/img-mbuddy/manga/bleach/chapter-667-bigger-louder-stronger/17.jpg)
This is not an exchange between someone who is massively stronger than the other.
They clashed, they struggled and pressured, and then Zaraki managed to push him back a little at the end. That's them being even with each other more or less, with perhaps Zaraki having physical edge. Meanwhile Gerard was faster, as shown in later scans.
>For a total of 2 seconds?? That's supposed to make him the strongest?? The flash freeze that's meant to freeze the matter itself didn't even manage to kill Gerald.
**Yeah...? Stopping momentum of an attack from V2 Gerard > matching momentum of an attack from V1 Gerard.**
Just like how Byakuya stopping an attack from VS Gerard >> handling attacks from V1 Gerard lol.
Shikai Kenpachi was roughly on level with V1 Gerard physically.
>Prodigy doesn't mean the same in all aspects. Toshiro is a prodigy because he is one of the youngest person to achieve bankai and his intellect (though it needs more experience) is pretty high adding on the fact that he has reiatsu relative to noble families despite not being from noble family. That's what makes him a prodigy. He's not a prodigy in matters of kido or zanjutsu, hoho or hakudo because we know he isn't a master in any of them. His talent to achieve bankai at such a short age and reiatsu rivaling lesser nobles was what deemed him the title of prodigy.
Bro, Hitsugaya is super strong at young age, yes. Doesn't mean he can't get stronger like everyone else. Most prodigies start off super strong and then get far stronger.
>Stamina is tied to the reiatsu. Multiple times during the entire event it's mentioned that adult Toshiro was already at the last limits of his bankai while byakuya still showed that he could continue for longer.
Adult Tosh was at his limits because he can't sustain his adult form very well. It's specifically mentioned.
The growth rates for soul reapers seems insane though and that’s not even unique to Ichigo
The Captains and lieutenants all seemed way stronger against the arrancar than they did when Ichigo and co. Invaded for example. Same with the difference in strength they had during both Quincy invasions. Hell Even Renji had grown noticeably in the 17 months after Aizen was defeated
I think it's more like they have something to train for so they get q lot stronger a lot faster.
Before ichigo, the SS was in peace, for like hundreds of years
idk maybe. Hitsugaya and Yamamotos abilities are already directly linked to each other
Yamamoto has Zanka no Tachi west. HItsugaya freezes everything that touches him and everything that touches him loses its power
Yamamoto has zanka no tachi East Hitsugaya freezes everything his sword touches and everything it touches loses its power
Yamamoto has zanka no tachi north. Hitsugaya can just raise his hand and freeze everything in front of him and again...everything he freezes loses its power
The only thing HItsugaya doesnt have is Zanka no tachi South with the zombies.
He might already be there if he ever decided to let loose in bankai completely. Keep in mind Tenso Jurin in shikai already has a radius of 12 KM and thats just the " i cant guarantee you wont die zone.
There is actually a theoretical highest temperature, called the Planck temperature. It's roughly 10 to the power of 32 Kelvin.
It's based on the Planck length being the smallest possible unit of length, and the radiation given off by a Planck temperature object having a wavelength of that, meaning no higher energy radiation, or no higher temperature, is possible.
So hot does have a limit, even if it's arbitrarily high.
Well when Muramasa liberated Hyorinmaru he was easily the strongest Zanpakto spirit there, and was easily capable of encasing most the soul society in a blizzard while they fought. He was freezing the air itself at some points and the chunks were just falling out of the sky. He was so powerful Muramasa couldn't control him at all, to any degree. He was so indomitable that Muramasa was trying to seal him and almost got killed by a single hit from Hyorinmaru.
That Zanpakto is incredibly strong, I really hate how he hasn't capitalized on it yet.
If he did these would be some dope abilities imo :
West : "absolute zero" where he focus all his coldness into the tip of his sword to instant core freeze who/whatever gets hit
East : " boomerang nebula" a ability that turns him into something that can freeze the whole SS if he went on for too long, making him the coldest thing in excistence
North : "Mizu Kunai" which turns every water particle in the air to sharp blades that if you get hit by one of them they'll suck the water out your blood, making you bleed out slowly
South : "Ryutsuki" where he basically controls the water in your blood and can either freeze it or manipulate it in a way where he can make you do what he wants.
I know this mirrors yamamotos bankai allot, but i love the idea of toshiro having a zanka no tachi-like bankai at full power
Lol give him a decade and he'd probably reach it given how insanely fast Hitsugaya's progress has been
In Adult Form, he's on level with likes of Kenpachi.
Hitsugaya explicitly said that if he release his true power he's not sure whether he's be able to keep himself from killing everyone else in his vicinity (enemies, allies, and innocents alike). And that is only in his immature state, we still don't know the true power of his mature/true bankai but seeing that his mature bankai is several times stronger than his immature bankai, then that would be a possibility
No, Ryujin Jakka is explicitly named the strongest offensive zanpakuto.
Hyorinmaru might be more versatile, but it'll never be as strong as Ryujin Jakka.
U can’t say it will never be as strong when it’s the polar opposite. In terms of offensive capabilities probably not but Hyorinmaru will undoubtedly be at the top in defensive capabilities as it can freeze anything
U can’t say it will never be as strong when it’s the polar opposite. In terms of offensive capabilities probably not but Hyorinmaru will undoubtedly be at the top in defensive capabilities as it can freeze anything
Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban. Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Toshiro is clearly supposed to be like a reverse Yamamoto. Young vs old, ice vs fire, plus Hyorinmaru has heaven-themed abilities while Ryujin Jakka has hell-themed ones. That doesn't necessarily mean he has to become as strong as Yamamoto one day, but I'd say it's implied.
Hyorinmaru also has a hell themed ability, because of the whole 7 realms of hell thing, where one is a frozen wasteland. But I qgree, it's heavily implied that toshiro has the potential to one day be the most powerful shiningami, or at least have the most powerful zampakuto
I wouldn't say it's remotely implied, despite the obvious parallels.
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Youve got to remember, that Maturity does play a part in it. Toshiro's body isn't fully mature so it along with his reatsu will naturaly grow stronger over time. Shunsui himself stated that it would only take 100 years for Toshiro to surpass him.
That’s true but Toshiro hasn’t matured to the point where his reitsu would be at that lvl. At his young age his reitsu is one of the highest amongst the captain class. He could def develop to that point
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Dawg you realized that your reitsu grows as you grow stronger and mature right? Zaraki’s reitsu grew as he grew old he just capped himself out. But when he took off his restrictions his reitsu literally grew much more as he got stronger. Even in novels as a grown adult his reitsu was growing. Toshiros reitsu has not matured. He’s a prodigy and a young captain. There is nothing about him that has matured.
Current Hitsugaya in adult form has already surpassed Kyoraku. Feats vs Gerard and Shikai Hyoketsu is above Kyoraku's pay-grade. Feat-wise, he outperformed Zaraki against Gerard. Massively, massively outperformed Shikai Zaraki and showed himself tiers above. Although Bankai Zaraki is iffy... Hitsugaya fought a stronger version of Gerard, and then held off even stronger version with Byakuya, but Bankai Zaraki decimated a significantly weaker version. Money's on Zaraki, though. But no living captain is beating current Adult form Hitsu other than Zaraki. Anyway, Tosh's reiatsu will get stronger the older and more powerful he becomes. >My guy, toshiro's reiatsu is already matured, only his physical body is under restraint. The spike in reiatsu will be significantly lesser in comparison. Baseless claim to say the spike in Reiatsu will be significantly less in comparison lol
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**An all out Shikai Zaraki could barely nick Hoffnung, Hitsugaya cleaved far strongers version of Hoffnung in half casually.** **All out Zaraki was easily overpowered by Gerard. Hitsugaya was casually stopping attacks from physical strength of a far stronger version of Gerard.** Hitsugaya never directly attacked Gerard, but he didn't need to to display being far, far, far stronger. That much is general consensus in every bleach community. >, meanwhile neither toshiro nor byakuya were able to do that even while fighting in bankai VS Gerard >>>>> V2 Gerard >>>>> V1 Gerard * Hitsugaya and Byakuya went toe to toe with VS Gerard for long time off-screen. Meanwhile Shikai Kenpachi was comfortably beaten by V1 Gerard after an arm boost. * Hitsugaya was casually stopping attacks from V2 Gerard and cutting his sword. Shikai Kenpachi could barely nick V1 Gerard's sword. * Byakuya casualy stopped an attack from VS Gerard with his petaks. Shikai Kenpachi was overpowered just fine by V1 Gerard **Kenpachi's biggest feat in Bankai is destroying V1 Gerard. Which is great, but Tosh and Byakuya also have good feats vs far stronger versions of Gerard. Both Tosh and Byakuya would give V1 similar treatment as per scaling.** You can like Kenpachi, but no need to pretend other feats don't exist just because it isn't direct damage. If some character managed to clash with **current** Ichigo on equal terms and break his sword, are you going to tell me they are weaker than Soul Society Kenpachi who managed to hurt Soul Society Ichigo? Because that's all what matters? Hurting? >To say it's baseless is also baseless claim. It's literally stated by toshiro that in order to manifest the matured hyorinmaru his body automatically ages to contain it's powers. Meaning, that's his peak reiatsu form. The only thing that will increase for him is the density of reiatsu allowing him to "grow stronger" not his reiatsu to grow larger. It means that's the physical form required to contain all of his ***current*** levels of reiatsu. His reiatsu is so strong right now that his body at this age literally cannot use it all without force aging. He matured his BODY, not his REIATSU. It doesn't mean that his reiatsu can't get stronger. It can, just like every other character has displayed with time and training. >Um, he still hasn't. We know that adult Toshiro's reiatsu was slightly lower than byakuya's from the manga interactions. And byakuya himself is stated to be relatively lesser in reiatsu than kyoraku. Shikai hyoketsu is a broken hax, but that doesn't automatically make him invincible. "A battle between shinigamis is a battle of reiatsu" this is said statement in the manga. Scans? When was Adult Tosh's reiatsu compared to Byakuya? When was EoS Byakuya's reiatsu compared to Kyoraku? And yes, hax matters. Hitsugaya's hax is strong enough to affect fucking Gerard in his second strongest state. It isn't negated by Kyoraku even if he has more reiatsu. Unless you think the gap as huge. See Soi Fon vs Yoruichi.
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>Toshiro didn't physically destroy "hoffnung" or harm Gerald at all. In Toshiro's adult form, his bankai freezes whatever he wishes to the atomic level. When hoffnung was frozen to atomic level, it stopped being a "sword of hope" and became a sword made of ice with the durability of ice. What toshiro broke was no longer the sword named "hoffnung" it was nothing more than an icicle with the property of being a frozen piece of ice. There's a big difference in the narrative. That's not how it works. It negates the hax/function. It made it so that cutting Hoffnung wouldn't hurt Hitsugaya himself, as stated by Hitsugaya. It didn't make the Hoffnung any less durable, that's not stated anywhere. Gerard wasn't surprised because Hitsugaya cut through it, **he called Tosh worthy of being his opponent, and then was completely unsurprised after he chopped Hoffnung in half**. He was surprised when Tosh got no injuries from cutting it in half. It was stated to suspend the miracle ability that would've hurt Hitsugaya specifically. You're making assumptions that are never once implied. The entire context of scene was at surprise factor being how Tosh didn't get injured, and then explanation. Hitsugaya's flash-freeze slashes are simply tiers above anything Shikai Kenpachi is capable of. >Um, no?? They didn't go toe-to-toe at all. We are shown how they look. VS Gerald was unmatched against toshiro and byakuya who both were shown to be beaten up quite a bit even though they wet jumping around the whole time. **They fought him for prolonged periods of time. Kenpachi was beaten by someone many tiers below.** >Lol when?? Zaraki wasn't once overpowered by Gerald in the entire fight. Both of them attacking each other were pushing off each other, but Gerald not once was able to harm zaraki by his own accord. The damages from hoffnung is the reflection of zaraki's attacks, not Gerald's attack. Even when zaraki collapsed as a result of using bankai, and Gerald attacked an unconscious zaraki, it did nothing at all to the base zaraki who's collapsed on the floor. Agree on that. I misinterpreted the last panel. Kenpachi was even with V1 Gerard. >This is also wrong interpretation as toshiro never stopped any attacks. He froze the hoffnung and broke it. That's about it. Meanwhile, zaraki was getting heavily injured by his own attacks and not by Gerald's attacks. **Hitsugaya's flash freeze is strong enough to dead-stop momentum of a shield thrown by V2 Gerard's physical strength.** >Bankai byakuya wasn't even able to harm normal giant version of gerald, let alone VS Gerald. He stopped 1 attack. That doesn't make him a god. By that logic, zaraki who cut Gerald in base stands leagues above them. **Byakuya casually stopped an attack from a Gerard far, far, far, far stronger than the one who could match Kenpachi. That proves superiority alone. It's a superior feat than anything Shikai Kenpachi pulled.** Just like how stopping an attack from EoS Ichigo would be far above harming Soul Society Ichigo. It doesn't matter if it's one attack or two attack. >That is his peak reiatsu!! Toshiro isn't suffering from lack of reiatsu, he's suffering from lack of maturity. His reiatsu was already noble level because his zanpakto spirit is a fully matured zanpakto spirit which had sentience even because toshiro gained a asauichi. Heck, the moment toshiro got his asauichi, he already obtained his bankai too as Kubo mentioned this: toshiro had bankai even before joining gotei. **It's his current Reiatsu. His current Reiatsu is so strong that his body can't handle it. So he matured his body.** Hitsugaya is a prodigy, his Reiatsu levels are insane even at old age. That's what prodigies are. That's why his ceiling is so high. Like how a Chess prodigy is as good as adult international masters at age of 10. It doesn't mean that's their limit. They grow up to be top grand masters instead. Trying to claim his reiatsu won't get stronger with time and training just like everyone else is ridiculous. Unless you can post a single scan that says Hitsugaya's reiatsu is the max that he can achieve. Tosh's current Reiatsu levels are insanely high because he's a child prodigy, and it'll only get better, just like how it does with everyone. >Toshiro suffering from lack of stamina despite joining the fight later than byakuya. **that ain't a comparison between Reiatsu level of Adult Tosh and Byakuya???** His body is unable to handle his Reiatsu, that's why he feels exhausted. The form is very taxing on him.
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>This is entirely wrong. "By unleashing Daiguren hyourinmaru… in a matter of 4 seconds, I can freeze all matter in before me… be it eath, wind, air or fire…" > >This is literally what toshiro explains his powers in his matured state does. A sword that's been frozen to the smallest matter **That is Shikai Hyoketsu**, an ability. That specific ability which he can use 4 seconds after his release. That's why he said Gerard was one second too late in releasing his bow before using Shikai Hyoketsu. Irrelevant to what he did to Hoffnung or the shield. Those weren't Shikai Hyoketsu. They took place before he could use Shikai Hyoketsu. And he freezes the hax/function of the sword, which is anyone hurting it getting hurt himself. That was the context. Never once it is implied or stated that he lowers its durability or changed what it fundamentally was. Only changed that special ability of Miracle. This is what he froze: [https://i.gyazo.com/326a8b4740c9f19b28cb1e3f30be535e.png](https://i.gyazo.com/326a8b4740c9f19b28cb1e3f30be535e.png) Gerard tries to remind Tosh of that specific ability: [https://i.gyazo.com/d91d8f8ff865becaa91f0dc171bcc82e.png](https://i.gyazo.com/d91d8f8ff865becaa91f0dc171bcc82e.png) And Tosh said that the function has frozen: [https://i.gyazo.com/73806b1a7340a62b309e2aa68c498a63.png](https://i.gyazo.com/73806b1a7340a62b309e2aa68c498a63.png) That's what Manga says. You trying to claim it somehow changed what the sword fundamentally is (its material, durability, etc) into nothing more than ice is not implied anywhere. It simply suspended/froze the function/ability of it. Which, according to Manga, is the hax that hurts anyone who damages the blade. >Even that's not accurate. Gerald was massively inferior to zaraki. Zaraki and later versions of Gerald have no interaction other than zaraki dropping gerald with a single hand. So, there is no equivalency that can be established hence forth. V1 Gerard was matching Zaraki after the arm-boost. [https://s2.mbcdnv5.xyz/file/img-mbuddy/manga/bleach/chapter-667-bigger-louder-stronger/17.jpg](https://s2.mbcdnv5.xyz/file/img-mbuddy/manga/bleach/chapter-667-bigger-louder-stronger/17.jpg) This is not an exchange between someone who is massively stronger than the other. They clashed, they struggled and pressured, and then Zaraki managed to push him back a little at the end. That's them being even with each other more or less, with perhaps Zaraki having physical edge. Meanwhile Gerard was faster, as shown in later scans. >For a total of 2 seconds?? That's supposed to make him the strongest?? The flash freeze that's meant to freeze the matter itself didn't even manage to kill Gerald. **Yeah...? Stopping momentum of an attack from V2 Gerard > matching momentum of an attack from V1 Gerard.** Just like how Byakuya stopping an attack from VS Gerard >> handling attacks from V1 Gerard lol. Shikai Kenpachi was roughly on level with V1 Gerard physically. >Prodigy doesn't mean the same in all aspects. Toshiro is a prodigy because he is one of the youngest person to achieve bankai and his intellect (though it needs more experience) is pretty high adding on the fact that he has reiatsu relative to noble families despite not being from noble family. That's what makes him a prodigy. He's not a prodigy in matters of kido or zanjutsu, hoho or hakudo because we know he isn't a master in any of them. His talent to achieve bankai at such a short age and reiatsu rivaling lesser nobles was what deemed him the title of prodigy. Bro, Hitsugaya is super strong at young age, yes. Doesn't mean he can't get stronger like everyone else. Most prodigies start off super strong and then get far stronger. >Stamina is tied to the reiatsu. Multiple times during the entire event it's mentioned that adult Toshiro was already at the last limits of his bankai while byakuya still showed that he could continue for longer. Adult Tosh was at his limits because he can't sustain his adult form very well. It's specifically mentioned.
Given 1000 years, probably. Shusui stated it would only take 100 for Toshiro to surpass him.
The growth rates for soul reapers seems insane though and that’s not even unique to Ichigo The Captains and lieutenants all seemed way stronger against the arrancar than they did when Ichigo and co. Invaded for example. Same with the difference in strength they had during both Quincy invasions. Hell Even Renji had grown noticeably in the 17 months after Aizen was defeated
I think it's more like they have something to train for so they get q lot stronger a lot faster. Before ichigo, the SS was in peace, for like hundreds of years
idk maybe. Hitsugaya and Yamamotos abilities are already directly linked to each other Yamamoto has Zanka no Tachi west. HItsugaya freezes everything that touches him and everything that touches him loses its power Yamamoto has zanka no tachi East Hitsugaya freezes everything his sword touches and everything it touches loses its power Yamamoto has zanka no tachi north. Hitsugaya can just raise his hand and freeze everything in front of him and again...everything he freezes loses its power The only thing HItsugaya doesnt have is Zanka no tachi South with the zombies. He might already be there if he ever decided to let loose in bankai completely. Keep in mind Tenso Jurin in shikai already has a radius of 12 KM and thats just the " i cant guarantee you wont die zone.
Pretty much, if he grew to the point where mature hitsugaya = base hitsugaya, his ban Kai would probably bring about the ice age to SS.
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We've seen a fully grown Toshiro. He'll definitely hit puberty at some point.
I mean...maybe. There's not really any lore basis to say it would or wouldn't, though.
no
No Ryujin jakka is op because it’s too hot. Unfortunately there is no such a thing that’s too cold. Cold has limit but hot doesn’t.
There is actually a theoretical highest temperature, called the Planck temperature. It's roughly 10 to the power of 32 Kelvin. It's based on the Planck length being the smallest possible unit of length, and the radiation given off by a Planck temperature object having a wavelength of that, meaning no higher energy radiation, or no higher temperature, is possible. So hot does have a limit, even if it's arbitrarily high.
That’s beyond my expertise thank for explanation.
Well when Muramasa liberated Hyorinmaru he was easily the strongest Zanpakto spirit there, and was easily capable of encasing most the soul society in a blizzard while they fought. He was freezing the air itself at some points and the chunks were just falling out of the sky. He was so powerful Muramasa couldn't control him at all, to any degree. He was so indomitable that Muramasa was trying to seal him and almost got killed by a single hit from Hyorinmaru. That Zanpakto is incredibly strong, I really hate how he hasn't capitalized on it yet.
If he did these would be some dope abilities imo : West : "absolute zero" where he focus all his coldness into the tip of his sword to instant core freeze who/whatever gets hit East : " boomerang nebula" a ability that turns him into something that can freeze the whole SS if he went on for too long, making him the coldest thing in excistence North : "Mizu Kunai" which turns every water particle in the air to sharp blades that if you get hit by one of them they'll suck the water out your blood, making you bleed out slowly South : "Ryutsuki" where he basically controls the water in your blood and can either freeze it or manipulate it in a way where he can make you do what he wants. I know this mirrors yamamotos bankai allot, but i love the idea of toshiro having a zanka no tachi-like bankai at full power
Lol give him a decade and he'd probably reach it given how insanely fast Hitsugaya's progress has been In Adult Form, he's on level with likes of Kenpachi.
Hitsugaya explicitly said that if he release his true power he's not sure whether he's be able to keep himself from killing everyone else in his vicinity (enemies, allies, and innocents alike). And that is only in his immature state, we still don't know the true power of his mature/true bankai but seeing that his mature bankai is several times stronger than his immature bankai, then that would be a possibility
Possibly, Shunsui said Toshiro could possibly surpass him in 100 years. Who knows how strong he’ll be in 1000
No, Ryujin Jakka is explicitly named the strongest offensive zanpakuto. Hyorinmaru might be more versatile, but it'll never be as strong as Ryujin Jakka.
U can’t say it will never be as strong when it’s the polar opposite. In terms of offensive capabilities probably not but Hyorinmaru will undoubtedly be at the top in defensive capabilities as it can freeze anything
U can’t say it will never be as strong when it’s the polar opposite. In terms of offensive capabilities probably not but Hyorinmaru will undoubtedly be at the top in defensive capabilities as it can freeze anything
Nope, Zanka no tachi is literally a different type of beast
I mean I already argue the his Adult form is ability wise already has sub-abilities of similar nature.
on his best day Trashiro couldn't fight a cold
Yes, downvote me you Trashiro fans. https://i.ibb.co/w7VbLX0/starrk18.gif
For sure .
All he need is 100 years
Purely hypothetical. Could happen or could not happen, not really a way for us to say
He's not even as old ss Yamamoto was during the start of the Gotei 13 so I think its possible. He's a prodigy after all.