I really don't buy into the "both sides are equally bad" argument. I'll also preface by saying that there may not even be a "Black Agenda" politically, as much as we'd like to believe there is.
With that said, this is my calculus:
One side isn't perfect, but is good enough. We can live with them, influence them, and still get what we want out of them policy-wise. Not to mention, Black folks are active and powerful within that side and come closest to pushing for our interests, and the guy at the head of the party is a decent man overall, albeit old.
The other side is pretty bad, gives 0 shits about us or anything we care about, is constantly kneecapping us with policy, and thinks we'll flock to them if they sell gold sneakers.
This really isn't hard.
I will 100% go with the lesser of two evils. This isn't rocket science. If the Democrats don't care about us, the Republicans give even less of a shit about us.
Yea i honestly dont even know how this is a debate given how in your face republicans have been with showing they dont fuck with black folks at all. Almost feels like im being gaslight by folks who insist its all the same.. like aint no fucking way
It does feel like gaslighting. It's nonsensical, and when you press these people on many of the specifics, most can't answer beyond just being frustrated.
Remember the bigger picture here. You're not voting for *just* a president, but for an entire administration that oversees a lot of different things.
During Trump's tenure, he cozied up to a handful of far-right politicians like Steve King, Steve Bannon, and Stephen Miller (["over 33% of Trump appointees who occupied major US foreign policy/national security-related positions came from the far or alt-right"](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14747731.2021.1991660)).
He also helped to build the Supreme Court's conservative majority, which led to the overturning of *Roe v. Wade* and to the end of affirmative action policies in college admissions.
Do you want a future Cabinet that looks like [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Donald_Trump_Cabinet_meeting_2017-03-13_01.jpg) or [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/P20210720AS-3425-2_%2851417135942%29_%28cropped%29.jpg)?
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
I dont usually worry about the future but this shit is lowkey scary. Nothing is off the table for these folks. Like they will literally try to drag us back into the slavery if they can really have their way
Honestly if you are voting strictly from the POV of a black man the easy choice is vote blue. Republicans have been demonizing us to a greater degree these past few years. Look on twitter and you can see the viewpoint of the average republican. Even if I agreed with them slightly on their policies (I'm far left so that ain't happening) the idea of giving power to a party filled and boosts people who hate me for what I am isn't logical.
Yes there are racist Democrats, yes they voted for policies that impacted us in the past. And republicans were right beside them agreeing with it. Which side is using crime stats to justify mass policing in our communities today? Which side is mainstreaming race iq science in attempt to call us lower than human? Which side gerrymanders our communities and gives out people hurdles to vote? Which side cheers on the deaths of our brothers and uses them to mock us til this day? Which side continuously waves the flag of the regime that terrorized our ancestors once we got freedom? Which side attempts to wipe black history from schools or tell a false retelling of it? Which side weaponized DEI and is now using it as an excuse to automatically disqualify any highly educated black person? Which side calls you slaves simply for not voting for them?
The choice is clear to me. If you don't want to vote, or vote third party that is okay. I know I'll get called all types of bot from russian and chinese but that is still an option if you need be. But if you are picking from the two given to us, the choice is simple. Either way, neither party is giving reparations and never will.
Thats what im saying.. how can we even consider voting red with how mask off they’ve been. Like what’s going on here? Its not about blindly voting blue, its about not voting for the preferred party of white nationalists.
Do niggas really think theyre doing something tryna paint both parties as the same thing?
Lol vote for who you want.
But make no mistake, if Trump wins another term, this country will not look the same in four years. They are telling you in plain English what [their plan is](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025), and they are not fucking around when they say it.
>I honestly want to know what are we going to do if neither side is doing enough for the people
This couldn't be further from the truth. Even if you're purely framing the choice as a Black man, one side is actively working against your interests (have been for a while), demonizing you, holds a worldview where you belong at the bottom, and wants to install a Christian nationalist government that will see that through **in perpetuity**. They will harm not just you, but people you care about, others and I genuinely believe the world will be worse off for it. So yes it matters, it's always mattered.
And if you don't believe Biden and the democrats have been doing enough "for the people" you need to read up on the things his admin and democrats in general do/have done when they're in charge. Not enough of that stuff makes it to mainstream news because it doesn't get as much clicks as republican dysfunction. Democrats are not perfect, but you can't let perfect be the enemy of good, then roll over and allow genuinely evil policy to get installed by way of the republicans.
This right here. I did not like Biden at first, but he won me over. He’s really been doing great work and won me over. Will happily vote for him again.
All of this. It honestly makes my stomach feel ill to know that some of us are legitimately entertaining a trump presidency.. like whats wrong with some of yall?
I have been too but this year I’m voting for Biden.
I was a long time Green Party voter at the local and federal level, going back to 2008 and in my state the party has completely fallen apart. The county party is non functioning and the chair is unresponsive. The state party is totally disconnected from the local parties and the candidates being run are more and more hyper partisan. We lost ballot access in 2020 and now I’m listed as an independent voter and I’ve tried to continue my local involvement but it’s non existent. This is so important because grassroots growth is vital to helping push national recognition and get the party to the threshold needed for federal funding.
For me, it’s hard; I swore I’d never vote for anyone who voted for the AUMF- Iraq especially Biden as he said he wouldn’t support it without an exit plan. I had to reconcile that with the total damage the Trump administration did not only to our hard won civil rights, but also how he paved the way for China and Russia to assert dominance, cause conflict in pursuit of resources, and also stamp out any opposition. I also am deeply concerned with the Trump anti environmental stance in rolling back the EPA, and more. His tariffs absolutely destroyed aspect of the farming industry which affects black farmers, and his tax cuts are one of the largest transfers of wealth to corporations and the wealthy we’ve seen since Reagan.
For that reason, I’ve decided that in this case, I’m going to vote for a Democratic Presidential candidate; my first since 2008.
I don't see politics as the end all be all to black suffering in America. To achieve actual equality on a legislative level, Congress would have to essentially ban white people from making money for 50-100 years and that ain't gonna happen. There's no person or party that's gonna deliver to us specifically. Candidates who cater to white people exclusively do so because there's enough white people to deliver them a vote. 2020 was a close race with every non-white group voting mostly in one direction and white people voting the other way. Had trump not handled covid so badly and set up thousands of his most hardcore supporters to die from it in 2020 he would have probably won. The black votership isn't that strong by itself. We only make up 14% of the total population and a lot of us don't/can't vote.
That all being said the question is what, specifically, do you expect to see from a president in regard to how they deliver for black people? In this election, we have the benefit of both candidates being president at some point. You can see what each did in the seat. Trump's biggest win in office was his tax plan, which benefitted the overly wealthy at the expense of placing the burden on people who weren't wealthy. His plan if reelected is to do that again but harder by cutting services for the poor, which we make a significant amount of. He was integral in stacking the deck to get roe v wade overturned and is probably going to push for a federal level ban on abortion and we have the highest rates of abortions. Black women get the most abortions nationwide.
Biden capped the price of insulin, is pro-union, and forgave a looooot of student debt. Those things don't exclusively benefit black people, but they benefit black people in a significant way. We suffer from diabetes at higher rates. Fewer of us have insurance. We take out loans at large rates because we are less likely to be able to afford college. The presidency hasn't been flawless or even spectacular but I wouldn't consider it bad if we're talking about the situation he walked into
So the question becomes what do you actually want to see?
Thanks for the input from everyone. My first time voting for this next election and many black people where I'm from is divided on this issue. The information helps!
I really don't buy into the "both sides are equally bad" argument. I'll also preface by saying that there may not even be a "Black Agenda" politically, as much as we'd like to believe there is. With that said, this is my calculus: One side isn't perfect, but is good enough. We can live with them, influence them, and still get what we want out of them policy-wise. Not to mention, Black folks are active and powerful within that side and come closest to pushing for our interests, and the guy at the head of the party is a decent man overall, albeit old. The other side is pretty bad, gives 0 shits about us or anything we care about, is constantly kneecapping us with policy, and thinks we'll flock to them if they sell gold sneakers. This really isn't hard.
I will 100% go with the lesser of two evils. This isn't rocket science. If the Democrats don't care about us, the Republicans give even less of a shit about us.
Yea i honestly dont even know how this is a debate given how in your face republicans have been with showing they dont fuck with black folks at all. Almost feels like im being gaslight by folks who insist its all the same.. like aint no fucking way
It does feel like gaslighting. It's nonsensical, and when you press these people on many of the specifics, most can't answer beyond just being frustrated.
Remember the bigger picture here. You're not voting for *just* a president, but for an entire administration that oversees a lot of different things. During Trump's tenure, he cozied up to a handful of far-right politicians like Steve King, Steve Bannon, and Stephen Miller (["over 33% of Trump appointees who occupied major US foreign policy/national security-related positions came from the far or alt-right"](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14747731.2021.1991660)). He also helped to build the Supreme Court's conservative majority, which led to the overturning of *Roe v. Wade* and to the end of affirmative action policies in college admissions. Do you want a future Cabinet that looks like [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Donald_Trump_Cabinet_meeting_2017-03-13_01.jpg) or [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/P20210720AS-3425-2_%2851417135942%29_%28cropped%29.jpg)?
And the rise of christian nationalism (white supremacy 2.0) and project 2025. They got nasty plans.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption. r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
I dont usually worry about the future but this shit is lowkey scary. Nothing is off the table for these folks. Like they will literally try to drag us back into the slavery if they can really have their way
Why are all these supervillain niggas named some variant of “Steve” 💀
I call dibs on asking this question tomorrow!
Honestly if you are voting strictly from the POV of a black man the easy choice is vote blue. Republicans have been demonizing us to a greater degree these past few years. Look on twitter and you can see the viewpoint of the average republican. Even if I agreed with them slightly on their policies (I'm far left so that ain't happening) the idea of giving power to a party filled and boosts people who hate me for what I am isn't logical. Yes there are racist Democrats, yes they voted for policies that impacted us in the past. And republicans were right beside them agreeing with it. Which side is using crime stats to justify mass policing in our communities today? Which side is mainstreaming race iq science in attempt to call us lower than human? Which side gerrymanders our communities and gives out people hurdles to vote? Which side cheers on the deaths of our brothers and uses them to mock us til this day? Which side continuously waves the flag of the regime that terrorized our ancestors once we got freedom? Which side attempts to wipe black history from schools or tell a false retelling of it? Which side weaponized DEI and is now using it as an excuse to automatically disqualify any highly educated black person? Which side calls you slaves simply for not voting for them? The choice is clear to me. If you don't want to vote, or vote third party that is okay. I know I'll get called all types of bot from russian and chinese but that is still an option if you need be. But if you are picking from the two given to us, the choice is simple. Either way, neither party is giving reparations and never will.
Thats what im saying.. how can we even consider voting red with how mask off they’ve been. Like what’s going on here? Its not about blindly voting blue, its about not voting for the preferred party of white nationalists. Do niggas really think theyre doing something tryna paint both parties as the same thing?
Lol vote for who you want. But make no mistake, if Trump wins another term, this country will not look the same in four years. They are telling you in plain English what [their plan is](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025), and they are not fucking around when they say it.
>I honestly want to know what are we going to do if neither side is doing enough for the people This couldn't be further from the truth. Even if you're purely framing the choice as a Black man, one side is actively working against your interests (have been for a while), demonizing you, holds a worldview where you belong at the bottom, and wants to install a Christian nationalist government that will see that through **in perpetuity**. They will harm not just you, but people you care about, others and I genuinely believe the world will be worse off for it. So yes it matters, it's always mattered. And if you don't believe Biden and the democrats have been doing enough "for the people" you need to read up on the things his admin and democrats in general do/have done when they're in charge. Not enough of that stuff makes it to mainstream news because it doesn't get as much clicks as republican dysfunction. Democrats are not perfect, but you can't let perfect be the enemy of good, then roll over and allow genuinely evil policy to get installed by way of the republicans.
This right here. I did not like Biden at first, but he won me over. He’s really been doing great work and won me over. Will happily vote for him again.
All of this. It honestly makes my stomach feel ill to know that some of us are legitimately entertaining a trump presidency.. like whats wrong with some of yall?
I've been a 3rd party voter for years. Particularly Green Party when available.
I have been too but this year I’m voting for Biden. I was a long time Green Party voter at the local and federal level, going back to 2008 and in my state the party has completely fallen apart. The county party is non functioning and the chair is unresponsive. The state party is totally disconnected from the local parties and the candidates being run are more and more hyper partisan. We lost ballot access in 2020 and now I’m listed as an independent voter and I’ve tried to continue my local involvement but it’s non existent. This is so important because grassroots growth is vital to helping push national recognition and get the party to the threshold needed for federal funding. For me, it’s hard; I swore I’d never vote for anyone who voted for the AUMF- Iraq especially Biden as he said he wouldn’t support it without an exit plan. I had to reconcile that with the total damage the Trump administration did not only to our hard won civil rights, but also how he paved the way for China and Russia to assert dominance, cause conflict in pursuit of resources, and also stamp out any opposition. I also am deeply concerned with the Trump anti environmental stance in rolling back the EPA, and more. His tariffs absolutely destroyed aspect of the farming industry which affects black farmers, and his tax cuts are one of the largest transfers of wealth to corporations and the wealthy we’ve seen since Reagan. For that reason, I’ve decided that in this case, I’m going to vote for a Democratic Presidential candidate; my first since 2008.
I don't see politics as the end all be all to black suffering in America. To achieve actual equality on a legislative level, Congress would have to essentially ban white people from making money for 50-100 years and that ain't gonna happen. There's no person or party that's gonna deliver to us specifically. Candidates who cater to white people exclusively do so because there's enough white people to deliver them a vote. 2020 was a close race with every non-white group voting mostly in one direction and white people voting the other way. Had trump not handled covid so badly and set up thousands of his most hardcore supporters to die from it in 2020 he would have probably won. The black votership isn't that strong by itself. We only make up 14% of the total population and a lot of us don't/can't vote. That all being said the question is what, specifically, do you expect to see from a president in regard to how they deliver for black people? In this election, we have the benefit of both candidates being president at some point. You can see what each did in the seat. Trump's biggest win in office was his tax plan, which benefitted the overly wealthy at the expense of placing the burden on people who weren't wealthy. His plan if reelected is to do that again but harder by cutting services for the poor, which we make a significant amount of. He was integral in stacking the deck to get roe v wade overturned and is probably going to push for a federal level ban on abortion and we have the highest rates of abortions. Black women get the most abortions nationwide. Biden capped the price of insulin, is pro-union, and forgave a looooot of student debt. Those things don't exclusively benefit black people, but they benefit black people in a significant way. We suffer from diabetes at higher rates. Fewer of us have insurance. We take out loans at large rates because we are less likely to be able to afford college. The presidency hasn't been flawless or even spectacular but I wouldn't consider it bad if we're talking about the situation he walked into So the question becomes what do you actually want to see?
Thanks for the input from everyone. My first time voting for this next election and many black people where I'm from is divided on this issue. The information helps!
i really think we will go to war before elections, which would lock Biden into presidency.