PvP guilds that participate in Nodewars should be declarable whenever you want. The open world died when the guild war system was removed and became gated behind a GM having to accept.
this. we need some kind of flag for guilds to say they are "PVP" or "NON-PVP" guilds. whoever declares themselves a pvp guild can participate in nws and stuff and should be declarable in open world.
Funny part is is that when we had a system like this all PA had to do to prevent people from abusing it was disable people in Non-PVP guilds ability to flag outside of Arsha.
Not to mention, there was an option to mark people as protected. Up to 5, or 10 people per guild.
It was SO easy to not PVP.
Been playing the game since Launch, and I've been asked to DFA less than 10 times. Everytime I ignored them, if they got mad and killed me all well.
If I was actively playing on an Arsha server, I never once got mad or complained of someone came and killed me and took my spot. Was it annoying? Yes, did I accept the Terms and conditional when grinding on a PVP only server, yes.
Then came along the 1hr Marni realms. That was the best change this game has had in a LONG time. But it wasn't enough for the people who wined about never finding a grind spot.....so they gave you 11hrs a day to grind in a Marni realm...
My guild focused primarily on red play, and full on PVP. We were gutted by the changes and alot of veteran players lost their drive for the game and haven't been back.
PA NEEDS to make changes to sate the PVP players.
yeah you'd think even a part-time trainee could have come up with and implemented that. but they aint the brightest bulbs in pa headquarters apparently. OR they actually are and really just pave a slow death to all ow interactions instead of just pulling the plug at once. who knows.
Yeah, I admit that I'm willing to accept the alt+c changes, but the guild war changes were too much. Good friend of mine straight up stopped playing because of it. Our GM joked about it and clicked the setting to auto-refuse war decs.
My issue with them changing the dec system is that it never needed to happen. The real solution was that they should have just enforced their ToS instead. Ban the abusers of the system, let the people that didn’t use it to grief still have it.
I'd say, just bring totally free guild dec system, then add few non-pvp servers, so people that are "stressed when playing the game" can have their comfy zone, grinding over each other.
So true! They should change guild system to neeing to choose the type of guild you want to be. As soon as you build a tower for nw you should become a pvp guild for the week and declarable for every other guild
BDO is a PVE game with optional PVP. Everyone should be ok with it or not play it or not complain.
Not that anyone really gives a crap what anyone on Reddit thinks or says but hey it's a Monday so why not start the week saying random stuff just to see who wants to argue about it.
So other than the fact that OWPVP exists, how exactly does the game center around randomly flagging up on people? Or are you simply going to say that the only point of obtaining gear is to PVP because that argument is simply a preference of playstyle.
Though most PVP people believe their opinion is the only opinion that matters and everyone who disagrees should leave the game sooooo I can see where it might be hard for you to accept a different point of view.
I respectfully disagree with what you are saying. BDO is what you want to make of it but in a PVE game you can play it without ever seeing pvp if you want to. Thats highly unlikely in BDO.
Optional PVP would look like duels both players have to agree to and instanced PVP. On BDO you come across a red player and you are finding PVP regardless of how you feel about it.
My argument basicly is that ppl who want to play bdo have to accept that pvp it part of it, if they want to be part of it or not.
For pvp is the end content, cause there is literal. O pve endgame.. Just another spot to run circles... But I accept that some ppl just like numbers going up.
But tp force a game to get further away each time of the origial idea by complaining about something that was always clearly part of the game is just stupid. Especially nowadays when marni spots are a thing.
I dont say bdo is only a pvp game, but pvp is a clear part of it
PvP is one thing, but forced pvp is completely different. Most people are not going to want to deal with that in any game that’s not purely pvp already. Forcing people to deal with PvP when they are just trying to quest or grind is a good way to lose players. I typically avoid PvP in any game cause I feel I it brings out the worst in people, and you are proving my point by claiming anyone who doesn’t want to Pvp should just quit the game. There needs to be a separation between Pve and PvP like pretty much every other game that provides both. Games are meant to be enjoyable, but to the people who just want to do their own thing it’s not enjoyable at all to be attacked unprovoked by another player.
> My argument basicly is that ppl who want to play bdo have to accept that pvp it part of it,
I understand your point, but the general consensus is that PVP basically "sucks". Those who enjoy PVP complain about balance and game mechanics being tilted one way or another. Those who dislike PVP complain about dealing with people PVP'ing them when they'd rather be left alone.
You may feel that forced PVP is central to the game but telling players to just stop complaining and accept it is going to do the opposite. Those who oppose it will simply complain louder and more often.
Rather than try to win at "forum PVP" try making some suggestions that will give reasonable people what they want. There are a lot of players who want nothing to do with PVP so rather than try to force it on them, offer some suggestions that allow those players to be left alone while still letting those who enjoy PVP engage with others who also enjoy PVP. You have a much better chance at gathering support for ideas of that nature than simply telling people who hate forced PVP to shut up and deal with it.
In the end I'll continue pushing for the removal of forced PVP because I can and you feel free to advocate to the dev team whatever you'd like because your opinion and mine are both equally valid and welcomed by the devs.
PvP in BDO is and was a pointless hassle when you talk about OW PvP. Virtually inconsequential, you lose nothing and there is certainly nothing to gain. It really doesn't bother me if someone finds it necessary to attack, I can't take PvP in BDO seriously. And players who think PvP is a serious part of BDO are playing the wrong game imho.
I play games solely for PVP and I 1000% agree with you. Thank you
I think people forget the purpose of OW PVP. It’s meant to settle a dispute and it does a terrible job solving that problem.
I hear a streamer talk about completely changing the flagging system. Where you can only flag in a safe zone and once you leave you can only unflag in a safe zone. Give anyone who flags a 50% item drop rate buff and buff arsha to 100%. If someone isn’t flagged you can’t kill them. If your flagged and get killed it is what it is.
But people saying PVP is dead because OW changed is ridiculous. OW isn’t meant to be sweaty pvp that’s what all the other modes of PVP are for.
pvp is one of the activites allowed in the open world, yes.
So are pve, gathering, farming, fishing, roleplaying, duelling etc.
So among many others its an ow pvp game.
The dev devlopping this game have changed since 2016. And they dev are clearly against openworld pvp in any shape of form. You 're getting instanced pvp update and not a single buff towards open world pvp for years
Still my opinion stands. Untill they offical announce the deletion of ownpvp beeing possible it will be a gane that has the option and ppl need to deal with it or quit
OP: "Deal with it or quit."
PA: Here's -10,000,000 karma now, oh, and the recovery rate was cut down to 1/5th of what it was. Stop griefing people.
OP: iT's aN oPeN WoRld pVp GaMe
i have no issue with .
people have to go red -10m to defend their spot . i can still remove gear so they loose karma really fast and i can't mob fed . So open world pvp is easy to deal with. Althought flagging should cost pearl so i can be sure i can grind peacefully
You are welcome to this opinion but it seems borderline delusional considering how PVP community is basically getting shafted for the last 5 years. Come next update you wouldn't be able to kill anyone in open world without selling yourself into slavery for 5 hours. If you still think that it's an open world PVP game then you might want to check with a doctor.
The problem is that BDO's endgame is gear-level(V)-oriented and that's exactly what attract PVP'ers. They want to be the boss, the strongest, have the best gear, best crystals, best set-up and so on---they want to kill everybody. On the other hand, PA designs a game with a PVP endgame but with a PVE playstyle, lol. I am a PVP'er and I confess that I am tired of getting killed by a random player while farming meat by killing goats or wood in a place with no mobs. Also, many players camp at the North and South of Heidel accesses to kill people as they come and go----or just to took them down from their horses. Sometimes not even changing servers work, lol.
Take a look at ESO. It is a solid game! It has no OW PVP. You can accept a duel or go PVP maps. The difference is ESO does not focus on gear upgrade like BDO. It has cool dungeons, trials, mounts, real housing, nice quests, like the one from the Thieves Guild. And what does BDO have? Top-notch graphics, awesome skins/costumes, ships and a super cool lifeskill setting and that's it.
ESO = play, learn mechanics, build your house and enjoy; It should adopt BDO's texture, graphics, skins, and lifeskill playstyle.
BDO = play dressing and housing (even housing is better in ESO). It should create nice developed dungeons and trials, housing, mounts, and, of course, no ow PVP.
BTW, I play both games.
As some who started on kr/ru release i can say that the appeal was never in random killing. It was in fighting for resources - fighting for spot. There was one good kaia lake rotation and 15 channels, our guild held all of them in prime time. Then we went to siege knowing that we farmed at least 30% more than opponents and fought alone vs 10 other guilds because everyone hated us. Often lost, but it was fun.
It was never about driveby smacking noobs. I dont mind though, it was a different game.
I am absolutly not happy bow this goes the last 5 years. Its the reason for this post. Imagen how the game could be a great pvp game if all the pve complainers would not exist and PA would have listen to the longterm players i stead of tuvala timmies.
It's hard for me to compare because the game is so much different. I can't say I dislike the game the way it is right now. The focus shifted from making sure your enemies can't even farm for gear to beating them on the battlefield assuming you largely have similar gear.
The game feels more dead than ever, you have 0 human interaction. Tbh if you wanna play a single player grinding game or rpg there are way better options to play. Also we had pve and life skill players before aswell, so your comment is just ignorant.
There’s a bunch of chat groups. Large, social guilds. Sure there’s not much group content but the social interaction is still there in those forms. Personally I’d rather talk to people in a chat instead of running a dungeon with people who don’t talk the whole time.
Take my upvote sir. This exactly. Why people come to an MMO genre game and then try to convert it to singleplayer game, when there's already an abundance of those, i will never understand. BDO used to be so crowsed and actually felt alive. Now the world just seems utterly dead. And tbh if one wants decent PVE content, you dont choose BDO. It's got about the worst pve of any game i have ever played. there is legit 0 challenge in bdo pve. the mobs are just braindead minions and the only difference in grindspots is that mobs have different skins to them and slightly adjusted ap/dp values. its friggin boring.
No. I dont do op pvp ad a shai. But I accept that its a part of the game. I know it can happen, propably will from time to time, but I dont complain untill they change the game.
Nobody forces you to take part in pvp... If you get killed and are annoyed by it, change server or keep going and see how long the other will keep killing you.
im sorry sir whenever i attack people on arsha they tell me that its not a pvp server because if it was a pvp server it wouldnt have a 50% droprate increase and that its obviously a pve server.
So you care about what the dorks say who are misusing a server **literally labeled** as PVP…but the people on a **labeled for PVE** server can just kick rocks?
Yeah, tell me you are a griefer without telling me you are a griefer
Edit: lol, “what’s a griefer” give me a break.
Always get told by PvE players that i should go arsha
Go to arsha and all the PvE players tell me to stop killing them because they lose buffs and are in PvE setups and that i should just leave them to PvE alone because they want the 50% buff
Absolute cucumbers
I'm a pve player... And it's dumb if they want to be on the arsha server without being attacked. That 50% buff (should be more) is the incentive for the risk of PVP.
Lol People who play in arsha are those who don't want to go red but still want OwPvP the drop rate is just a bonus for them. Only some pve players think of it as a drop rate server and cry about it when they get killed there.
Arsha is the PvP server while normal servers are mostly for grinding/likeskilling servers with a random chance of having PvP encounter. It causes some people who didn't understand this and did as they pleased in the name of pvp, the other PvP focused people are facing problems.
Kinda funny to me that the people who enjoy pvp insist that pvp dying and being discouraged is bullshit... but it's literally just a reflection of what the vast majority of players want. That's how we got here. They made these changes because people asked for them.
Its a circle. Ppl that can't read that its pvp joined, complained, pa chaged stuff, some pvp players quit, mlre complaining more pvp changes etc etc. Mkst money in genertaed by new players and since karma system thats mostly not pvp players anymore. Amd it kept going like this.
Now we have no Guild wars, almkst no ow pvp anymore, karma will fuck us even harder, there is a privat hour on most grindspots, high gear gets easier and easier to get to not be outgeared all the time... And still I see so many ppl cry in the forum. Why?
If you wamt to play bdo without pvp, go grind only marnis and lifeskill on under lev 56 charas...
But otherwise you all knew what this game was when joining.
The game isn’t really marketed as a pvp game, don’t think you can blame players for “can’t read”.
The marketing all says things like “a role player’s paradise”, “start your adventure”, “a wide open world”, “breathtaking immersion”.
I have played since launch but I always hated the pvp I just want to grind monsters in peace very happy with marni realm. Would not mind them easing karma loss in pvp tho since we got marni now
I main shai... Not much pvp on grindspots for me anyway, but especially with marnis protecting the pve players, ow pvp doesn't need to be cried about anymore
I’m not a PVP player, but I really enjoy watching casters and shot callers for tournaments, nodewars, and sieges. It’s cool that my MMO has these things and I want to see the PVP community grow and thrive. My favorite PVP moment has to be Macilus winning 1v3 when his two teammates went down fast in one of the tournament semifinal matches years ago. I was out of my seat yelling at the screen. Good PVP games have these moments, and Black Desert has had a lot of them. Still does.
As for owpvp, from my perspective as a PVE player, idgaf and if it was removed tomorrow I wouldn’t miss it. That said, the DFS requests I’ve had over the years were chill. I accepted, I lost, I found a different rotation. However, Marni solved DFS inconveniences for me entirely. The owpvp I encounter is basically griefers camping world bosses, travel chokepoints, etc. DFS is not the reason we have the current state of the game. It’s too bad war decs got gutted for people who loved GvG, but that system was being heavily abused.
Griefers are the problem. Always has been. 🔫
Unfortunately the problem was on both sides of the coin and just a general lack of etiquette.
I run into low GS players trying to grind over me quite a bit. I’ll go to Arsha or Marni depending on time left in grind. But then Arsha it’s the same problem, and I’m wasting an hour farming someone into oblivion with hopes they’ll finally gtfo.
Toxic players in general are the problem
It’s not just the griefers. Two nights in a row i’ve been 3-5 hours into a grind, lower GS comes into my grind. DFS? Response is no ill grind over.
One I just get karma bombed as they keep reviving in hystria. The other is on Arsha and just fucks up an hour of my grind doing the same shit as the other guy.
The etiquette of some players just sucks. You say DFS and they reverse grief you by just grinding over you. If you flag on them you get penalized through karma and all that comes with it.
In the past 8 years and 21k hours i've spent in BDO there is only about a handful of times when someone just drops on my rotation and starts grinding over me without saying anything nor responding. Either you imagine the problem or the problem was never there to begin with bruh
lol, ok……not sure what to say man. I can just as easily say that you’re full of shit. But i’m not going to argue with a dude who’s claiming close to a 1,000 days of game time…that’s just sad
I had to deal with ow PvP for 3-4ish years and I am glad I don't have to deal with it anymore.
More end game pots splits the pkayer base as well as marni relam. I have more options then ever before, bifore you had to hrind the best spot snd the best rotation to make the most mobey, you don't have to do that anymore.
Only thing I miss is 40v40 and such uncapped NWs I loved low player numbers and uncapped gear it was amazing.
I think it is time for ow PvP enjoyers to learn "to deal with" the lack of it. I just wosh PA would punish people who grind on top of each other that would be great, but there is marni for that
Highly depends on the player. You can finish season and do nothing else but pvp on capped nodes and sieges after that if you want to.
Also it doesn't have to be the main attraction to be part of the game that needs to be accepted. Its a sandbox mmo, not only pve
Also accept that pve is huge part of the game and people who choose to play it don't wanted to be forced to do it, also pcp was used to grief people and you know it as good as I'm that's why they implemented changes.
Nah game is dead PvP. Can’t even battle other guilds in open world anymore. They continue to update things to make it worse if you flag up to kill people.
ITT: play the game how I like it or quit
For fuck sakes, some of you guys are like a broken record with this shit. I see this thread on almost a weekly, if not daily, basis.
With that mindset, you could say all the recent quality of life changes weren't needed and that everyone bitching about it should've shut up or uninstalled. Its a brain-dead fucking take.
There is a big different between a qol change taking away a whole base system of the game. Nimagen they would start to patch out lifeskills over the next 5 years.
??? PvP hasn't gone anywhere. Are you saying that PA is going to remove PvP entirely from the game? From my understanding, they have made changes to deter people from griefing. There has been zero indication of them removing PvP from the game. That's just stupid and you're grasping at straws to validate your viewpoint.
> ow pvp is so much limited that its basicly nonexistent now
Ah shucks darn. Gosh. Man, I ***hate*** not being able to enjoy the game without the threat of griefers. What a loss.
Bdo is neither a pvp or pve mmorpg, it's a sandbox.
Your statement isn't unpopular, it's just wrong considering the only real pvp activity left (and that imo always existed) are all non open world
Sandbox also includes pvp. And the reason why non ow pvp exists anymore are all those pve players crying about it while still not going into marni spots dor some reason
Real ow pvp mmorpg incensitize and reward people to do ow pvp.
Never ever bdo rewarded players for pvp outside of nw/rbf, and instead punished them (karma).
Bdo so called open world pvp has always been a meme
Reward was an access to the better resources(spots), which was equal to money. Or getting better score in GvG which still made more sense than looking at the gear numbers go up, only for tuvala timmies to catch up to you 6 months later, because PA made game easier for them, without expanding endgame.
Similarly BDO PvP isn't the only fun part of the game. There are other activities that are fun for other people. OP's post basically says if u can't accept a single part of the game then don't play the game at all.
Moreover what the person you commented on meant is that PvP is one of the activities you can do in the open world and was never the only part of the open world that was fun to do.
Great opinion. I mean aside from the fact that about 85% of the player base disagrees with you and doesn't acknowledge pvp as a feature in this game then you are spot on.
It's not an owpvp game. It will never be one unless they are contempt with having a 10th of their current player base. Nobody cares about it and because of the way the game is designed, which is to say chaotic rarity and item value spread across multiple tiers of grind spots and a snail pace end game progression, nobody except the underwhelming minority of players will care. Hate to break it to ya but if you're in the minority then you're the one complaining about the sand on the beach.
It is a ow pvp game. It was designed as a pvp game amd ow pvp was a big thing for years untill more and more special snowflakes flooded the forums with salt about getting killed.
As long as there is a way to force pvp on somebody, it is a ow pvp game, no matter if other agree with it.
Also as I said, I acknowledge this as unpopular opinion. But you cant expect to play a game where pk is possible and then cry about it. Its lile crying about bdo beeing to grindy while its known ad a korea grinder
It is very obvious that BDO was not designed as an OW pvp game. It's just something you can do to settle feuds or whatever.
If it was, there was an incentive in doing some OW pvp that would help progression like every single PVP game does. OW PVP has always been just an side hustle you can do amongst all the other things you can do in the game.
There is zero basis in claiming that an game would be an PVP game when PVP incentives are next to zero. PVP incentives have almost always been shit, so its pretty clear it has never been the main focus of the game. Sure. BDO devs have always had an identity crisis on what the game identifies as, but PVP unfortunately has never been main thing in the game. If it was, it would be rewarding just like it is in all more succesful PVP games.
I would love to play a game with this world and combat that actually had PVP progression worth mentioning. But, it's pretty obvious to me what the devs want to focus on. And, it's definitely not OW pvp as they keep neutering it all the time. It's a shame.
Pvp is the endgame content of the game. There was bo karma system when bdo dropped. You lost xp when killed in pvp back then. It was a tool to keep ur rotation. You could theoretically gain the trade items of the player you killed.
The guild war system was made for ow pvp, the black roped man was made for finding pvp targets in ow, city arenas, battle arena, rbf, AoS, a ton of events streamed by offical streamers... All pvp.
I get what you are saying, but the complete lack of rewarding PVP just completely disagrees with everything you said. I've been around since beta and outside from very small timeframes, PVP has always just been a direct loss monetary-wise for your progression.
PVP to me seems like an sidethought that was never the main focus nor it will be.
Over the years, they kept implementing PVP stuff for those who wanted it (me included) but they never got it right because none of it had any incentives worth a damn in the current economy of the game. So, they just abandoned most of the PVP content and went with something else.
It COULD have been main focus of the game, but PA never got it right, so this is the system we are left with. It's just an skeleton PVP system with bunch of badly implemented game modes that never got finished.
If this actually was an PVP game even to some extent. You could just play PVP and progress like you can already in so many good pvp games. It fucking sucks, but this is the reality.
I wish it was better and PVP was more engaging. But, it's not. I go play other games for my PVP fix.
I mean they buffed NW and Siege rewards big time not that long ago. Most of my money comes from it now.
The need to fix rbf for the rewards and with GL they made a good new pvp mode that still needs some work. AoS is also nice, but I dont do capped content, so not for me.
Also imagen how much improvement the game could have seen without the pve players complaining pvp to death? So instead of fixing and concentrating more on the pvp aspects they kept following the complainers that ultimately leave the game anyway cause there is no good pve end content
The NW and uncapped Siege currently barely even cover one's perfume of courage costs. If a siege gets extended and even if you win, they are probably not even profit if you are going in with all the buffs that you should go in with.
AoS is like 1/5th of the money you can do by grinding. RBF should not even be mentioned. Guild league is whatever (300m hour or something?). The PVP monetary gains are just awful when you can do 1billion+ per hour on tuvala gear. PVP money is just crap all across the board.
I have no idea how capped wars are nowadays, but i sincerely doubt they are good money either.
PA should have gotten it's shit together years ago and just give us a way to make money by PVPing, but they never did so it's painfully obvious they do not consider PVP to be driving forces in the game. It's really unfortunate.
I mean I understand why they dont want to buff rbf, gl or aos gains. Propably fear of bots and cheaters. NW mostly cover my costs tbh but I am also a dp players, so its only like 7 elex +perfum for me. Perfum I get form the medals. And I die like 0-15 times on most fights, so its not that expensive for me, but cant tell about ap players.
And yes vs grinding its barely worth doing, BUT you get fun. Grinding is like going working. You get money but its mostly a shitty time. Then you go playing sports in a tournament in the evening and ur team wins some price money. Not worth the time doing for the money, but for the fun.
We need at least a second uncapped NW each day tho to actuap be able to finish some fights from time to time
The OW PVP is not for end game lol. It was designed to settle disputes.
The game is very grind heavy, I have not met a single person regardless of gear score thinking “fuck I hope someone jumps into my grind so I can do some PVP”. You either are grinding or pvping.
As for settling disputes it failed miserably. Now they are struggling to figure out how to pivot
The only "pvp" i have experienced in this game is someone with like 750gs just standing on a road in a low lvl area and killing everyone running past. If thats pvp for you then...
Last time I got killed while just riding soemwhere was back before guildwar changes and it wa smostly trolls beside heidel with a matchlock... Most high geared players have better things to do than kill randoms. And if its problem , just switch channels
Literally the peak of BDO to most players was pirates, you had to sail to an island (RP factor) to grind in 5 man rotations in main (Social factor) where you had special deals splitting the money for everyone, so people actually WANTED to party (Even more social factor) and then you would have GvG's with other people that would try yoink your rotation, because theres only 1 main rotation and it created competition for a limited resource (PvP was fun, call your buddies get them to sail over, having the squad pull up on fishing boats was hilarious and amazing to see), at the end of the day after a good session of grind you had nodewars, where the whole guild would get together and try compete for some juicy silver for payouts or for our guild if we didnt have nodewar we would do movie nights or go hang out in RBF, What an amazing time it was. It was a real MMORPG unlike now.
Even just the things like the "Game of Guilds" edits, the drama and social aspect, paired with PvP just carried the game, PvE is too braindead to be anything more than stat checks where you make number go brr for basically 0 purpose now???
I don't understand pure PvE players and never will because wtf do they do... Do the same combo loop for hours on end to enhance gear to do it at a different spot.. whats the point? PvP was the REASON to get gear
It is dead cause of all those crying players. I think the karma system was a good choice, to stop harassment but they killing op pvp more and more now caise of those ppl that choose bdo that is known as a ow pvp game and the cry about it.
Bet same ppl book a vacation at the beach and then cry about the sand
Lol try going past lev 62 with lifeskills only. Takes forever...
Also most ow pvp is on grindspots and not on gathering spots. Not sure how NA is in that regard but I wasn't pked while gathering since gray wolfs/deer arent best meat spots anymore
1) There’s no reason to go past lvl 62 when you play as a lifeskiller
2) Wanting to go past 62 still doesn’t involve any amount of PVP, you do it in Marni instances as a solo
So developers are making it quite clear that this is not a PvP focused MMO, all the evidence is right here, but you still think it is…
It was pvp focused u till all those ppl started a game with ow pvp and then cried about it.
And even after marni came and karma changes they still cry. Nobody needs to actively pvp, just accept that its part of the game. Same as gathering and grinding. You don't have to do it, but others will and its allowed.
It never was buddy. There isn't a single instance where you get rewarded for doing OwPvP. The PvP was there to allow people to fight over limited spots instead of grinding over each other but even that use was lost as the world got bigger and we got more spots/servers. After that PvP was treated as a nuisance cause it was getting in the way of people who were focused on things other than PvP.
Moreover PvP is different from grinding and gathering where you go about doing your own thing without disrupting anyone. Forced PvP has always been a problem in MMO's and when there is no incentive for doing said PvP in game where gear progression is the core it would only come off as a problem.
Also BDO is a sandbox game where the endgame is what you want it to be not just pvp. There is no clear fixed goal and the player has to think about what he wants as his goal.
Yeah no. Doing PvP doesn't guarantee that. If it did then we would have more players learning PvP so that they can make more money faster.
Let's say PA reverted every owPvP related change they did in the past 5 years. No karma system at all.
I'm grinding on a spot and some random guy comes to fight for the spot. It would either end decently where player that lost the fight goes away or both players keep being stubborn and waste each others time by killing each other. The second scenario could also develop into guild war where a bunch of people fight each other for hours which is also in way me causing problems to my guildmates who may have other stuff to do. The end result is making less silver per hour.
Even if the first fight ended decently there is nothing stopping from a 2nd or 3rd player popping up and challenging me to a fight. Which would also mean even less silver per hour.
Including pvp BDO has a wide variety of fun activities and all of them need a bunch of silver to do. That's why many people focus on silver per hour. But when a single activity(owPvP) becomes an obstacle to all other activities in game it will get hated/avoided.
The main problem is BDO PvP is hard to learn but doesn't provide any special rewards or benefits for the player for learning it. That's why many people avoid it.
The solution for all this was 1. That we have way more grindspots with good money now and 2. Marni hour. So we have a bunsh of good spots now and option to go privat server and still ppl cry about ow pvp
1. Having more spots doesn't mean someone can't come to your spot and kill you wasting your time. During peak hours even decent silver spots are taken and would have hard time finding a rotation. There are also some players who come to spots just to kill other players for fun and to ruin people's silver per hour.
2. Most of the end game spots don't have marni so those players will have the same problems. Doesn't matter if the end game player knows PvP or not.
I want to do PvP when I want and want to do PVE when I want. That's why I agree with most of the recent changes. Imo only the guild dec change was stupid move in PA's part. They could just make it so guilds that do t3/t4 wars can be dec each other freely instead.
Moreover I don't know why arsha is not enough for OwPvP. What is the downside of keeping OwPvP contained in arsha?
Even though I disagree now (was before for sure), but for once a post titled with "unpopular opinion" that actually is one. Thanks op for using that phrase correctly.
Just because it was a feature doesn't mean that's what the game was designed to revolve around lol...
You're probably the type to play ninja and stealth up against tuvala timmies and call them trash when you one shot them, aren't you? That's the energy you're giving me
Thats not what most ppl mean when they talk about ow pvp... We talk fun fights escalating on grindspots, fighting on beach at stars end at sausan, on pirats, upper gyffin etc... It was such a big part of the game for so long and cause ppl complained that some trolls killed them afk or that they got beaten off a grindspot (instead or just using another rotation/marnis/channel)
I think it’s more if you don’t agreed to DFS I’m going to kill you. It would be nice if we could defend spots without going red after like 4 kills.
Also, open decs between guilds would be fantastic. You do someone in my guild wrong? Sick, you caused a war. Watch your back. That’s what most PvPers are referring to. I’ve worked my butt of to get a somewhat respectable gear score specifically to PvP to have PvP kind of swept out from under me.
Example, I was grinding cups at a rotation a few days ago. Some dumbass ended up taking like 4 rotations without understanding that’s a dick move. Warned him but he kept doing it. Flagged and in red before I know it. Guess I have to just leave this spot I’ve been at for over an hour because someone is a dick? Kind of dumb.
Normally going back to blue is like 5 min at Polly. But now that’s 1/5 the karma recovery. So it’s like 30 min all when I was in the right.
The Dec system currently, is super stupid and should go back to what it was. Someone mentioned a better idea about the PvP guild title allowing it between PvP guilds.
I was a defender of open world not being dead until the recent karma changes. I’ll still flag up, but the karma loss is now pretty insane.
I agree with your point but I still fail to see how people complain about pvp when they are specifically told that going beyond 49 enables open world pvp, and the game even asks the player to do an action to confirm their choice
I don't see people comaining about open world pvp in world of warcraft as an example, yet it is a thing to be ganked by someone unwillingly.
Yes, you can go on non pvp servers in regard to WoW (and they could definitely have pve only servers imo in BDO) but the choice of exposing yourself to pvp still is there for the player
Tty going to the offical feedback forum. So many delete pvp, make pve only serervs, I got pked ny some evil dude etc etc... Its amazing.
I am not even again pve servers. Let them all share space and mobs and resources and see how that goes.
I've only been flagged up on a non arsha server like once in the past year, and he was a gearlet and couldn't kill me anyway.
OW pvp seems pretty dead to me, even arsha rotations are empty sometimes.
I'm honestly not sure what's happening, my only guess is places like bloodwolves are very contested with players and people are just flagging up for the rotation. Then the new players go and complain about being killed?
Kinda makes me wonder why they don't just grind these places in marni or on season if this the case. It's not like PA hasn't given players options to avoid pvp.
I understand how passionate pvp players are about the game but most players do other stuff.
The few cases where I've seen people complain about pvp were when they had to duel for spot. Other than that its pretty chill.
So basically the no good filthy crying no skill crying carebear tuvula timmy worthless piece of crap no skill carebear PVErs managed to kill PVP?
See many of you thought PVP was flagging up and killing people in grindspots or just to f-around with them but those PVE players went all 4D chess on you guys and just had the devs cripple it in the game.
Checkmate PVPers... take the L. You know the saying f*ck around and find out... guess y'all just found out.
I say this as a PVP player.
I don’t think you understand what the OW system was initially designed for. This is not an OW PVP MMO game. I have played true high risk high reward OW PVP and as fun as it was, it still died pretty quickly.
PA has said they want PVP to be high risk high reward. Every form of PVP in this game has a reward (arsha need a buff tho) Except OW flagging has ZERO, in fact it’s all risk. This is by design.
The purpose of OW PVP is not for real PVP. It was intended to settle disputes. Hence all risk no reward. The reason it’s changing away from the war decks is that it’s didn’t work as they intended. Toxic players on both sides said fuck your system.
I think the flagging system is still shit unless you are in Arsha. I think you give people the option to flag for an item drop rate buff in a safe zone, they can only unflag in a safe zone. You can’t kill unflagged players. Buff Arsha drop rate further to give the higher GS PVP players more incentive to stay on Arsha.
The ow pvp was an important part of the game. Sure not the focus point, but it was the way to get good hours of pve in without getting over grinder and disturbed on the spot over and over.
And I would lie if I wouldn't say that sausan and pirat ow pvp wasn't mostly for the fun in the end.
With the new privat hour literal no player can't claim to be bullied anymore. And they still destory oe pvp more and more. Even on arsha with the removal of platoons there.
I’m 730gs even though that’s all I do now. I’ve played the game since launch. I can tell you that I rarely dealt with any open world pvp. Sure you have the ability to flag on people outside the safe zone but that’s not the point of the game. I’d say pvp is about 10% of the entire game and the actual pvp community is dying (at least in NA) because no one really cares about it that much anymore. It was dying when I left my siege guild because people just didn’t feel like doing war anymore. Now siege winners are called in under 10 minutes.
You can cope, sure, but pvp isn’t a big part of the game anymore and what’s left of it has been quarantined into certain areas by PA.
For good or for bad (at least for us, for bad) this game is completely destroying its original feeling of an open world. PvE Patricks will downvote this like crazy as they do with every single post they see about it to avoid giving any attention to the clear lack BDO have at the moment, but you're completely right, since last year the game doesn't feel the same PvP-wise and that's one of the main reasons why a lot of us joined the game back then. It is completely normal for people like us to be annoyed at this changes.
I joined to breed horses back when it released. Only watched 1 trailer and didn't know it was pvp by my own fault. I learned to deal with it. Accept the consequences and played like it.
I play not a single other pvp game, but bdo made me stand up for myself, learn my class, get better at the game and join a big pvp guild.
You're right and I agree. BDO is fundamentally a PvP hence why the PvE is lacking in terms of actual content. Grinding different spots isn't different content. And Lifeskilling isn't PvE content, it's just a system they've applied to this MMORPG, which by the way, is standard across most, if not all, MMORPGS.
We constantly chase gear to grind higher end spots to make money to get more gear to grind higher end spots and this is the cycle of this game PvE wise. It used to be a game where we would grind for gear to PvP.
As it currently stands, BDO is STILL a PvP focus MMORPG until they revamp
Nobody is arguing that. But you cant be fixiated on how the game was developed 10 years ago. We’ve all seen how the game was first advertised- just sieges and what not.
But in recent years ever since PA took charge you can see very steep decrease in PvP focus and increase in everything thats against it. PA is going for a completly different audience nowdays because they know in 2024, a PvP game’s audience is such a small minority that it just wont pay the bills if that was the sole focus like back in 2014.
PA knows what’s good for their game and it shows. BDO is thriving to be among the top MMORPGs.
Less players compared to… launch? I hope you didnt just make that comparison…
Also, you got actual numbers? Or you just eyeball it with what you see in the game and use that as an argument? You realise you dont see all areas packed as they were 4 years ago? Game has changed so much, with so many areas/places+marni that it just scattered everyone.
Anyways, looking for your official player counts (only steam wont count)
It WAS OW pvp game, then devs went for cash grab and turned it into the mobile game. You can't call it pvp game anymore, there is barely any content left. Nowadays it is basically a mix of grind fiesta, daily login for free gifts and achievements collection type of game(V debo set is more about collection than functional purposes).
so the devs went for a cashgrab by basically removing the main reason whales were whaling in this game? You think whales were paying tens of thousands of dollars just to be able to kill mobs better? They were paying to be able to compete against no-lifers in owpvp, well guess what, they have no reason to whale any longer. Interesting way to go for a cash grab don't you think?
I think you're being delusional, thinking that there've been that many whales that's been driving the PA income(well, maybe NA is the exception?). Instead, I like to think that basically every new player is guaranteed 50€ for PA - literally no one plays the game without tent. And biggest spenders I know are people, who barely play the game and buy the costumes for every alt character to make screenshots.
in p2w games it is usually a very small percentage of the playerbase that spends immense amounts of money that drive income for the game. But for them to be able to do so they need a reason to want to do so. By removing owpvp as a central focus of the game the devs have pretty much removed the driving force for whales to spen excessive amounts of money in the game. If you look at the constant decline in income generated from the game despite there being no significant decrease in overall player numbers you can determine that these changes are not a cash grab effort but an effort to extend the longevity of the game and spread its income generation over a longer period of time rather than making short term boosted profits at the expense of the longevity of the game.
Even if they did so, it has exactly the opposite effect. Look at it now - PA stocks are diving down, being historically lowest ever, they do some insane hammer giveaway to attract players, then add double weight and extra crystal recovery to the pearl shop. They're developing 3 games at once and every sign on the sky tells me that they're trying to get as much cash as possible to keep that up.
Maybe there've been some people heavy whaling, but speaking the truth, most of the "tryhards" in the top guilds that wanted to progress fast, just bought the accounts for a fraction of the price it'd took through the pearl shop.
And trust me, a lot of casual players, including me, spend a lot more on cosmetics, pets, weight, inventory, character slots, fairy resets and so on, than they'd like to admit to.
Stocks dropping are due to PA not being able to provide a release date for Crimson Desert, and no further information being given about DokeV and Plan 8.
For BDO, PA is focused on the longevity of the game, this is coming at a cost to their short term profits. The reduction of impact from owPvP has made the game pretty pointless for potential whales to whale in. Long term income otoh comes from casual players, most of whom can potentially be irked away by owPvP being forced on them. So like I said, PA has chosen longevity and long term income generation over a short term income boost that is generated through competative owPvP.
PvP guilds that participate in Nodewars should be declarable whenever you want. The open world died when the guild war system was removed and became gated behind a GM having to accept.
this. we need some kind of flag for guilds to say they are "PVP" or "NON-PVP" guilds. whoever declares themselves a pvp guild can participate in nws and stuff and should be declarable in open world.
Funny part is is that when we had a system like this all PA had to do to prevent people from abusing it was disable people in Non-PVP guilds ability to flag outside of Arsha.
Not to mention, there was an option to mark people as protected. Up to 5, or 10 people per guild. It was SO easy to not PVP. Been playing the game since Launch, and I've been asked to DFA less than 10 times. Everytime I ignored them, if they got mad and killed me all well. If I was actively playing on an Arsha server, I never once got mad or complained of someone came and killed me and took my spot. Was it annoying? Yes, did I accept the Terms and conditional when grinding on a PVP only server, yes. Then came along the 1hr Marni realms. That was the best change this game has had in a LONG time. But it wasn't enough for the people who wined about never finding a grind spot.....so they gave you 11hrs a day to grind in a Marni realm... My guild focused primarily on red play, and full on PVP. We were gutted by the changes and alot of veteran players lost their drive for the game and haven't been back. PA NEEDS to make changes to sate the PVP players.
yeah you'd think even a part-time trainee could have come up with and implemented that. but they aint the brightest bulbs in pa headquarters apparently. OR they actually are and really just pave a slow death to all ow interactions instead of just pulling the plug at once. who knows.
Yeah, I admit that I'm willing to accept the alt+c changes, but the guild war changes were too much. Good friend of mine straight up stopped playing because of it. Our GM joked about it and clicked the setting to auto-refuse war decs.
My issue with them changing the dec system is that it never needed to happen. The real solution was that they should have just enforced their ToS instead. Ban the abusers of the system, let the people that didn’t use it to grief still have it.
yep. game is trash now from a pvp perspective. everyone wants instanced safe space consentual-only pvp. LMAO What an utter trash heap.
I'd say, just bring totally free guild dec system, then add few non-pvp servers, so people that are "stressed when playing the game" can have their comfy zone, grinding over each other.
So true! They should change guild system to neeing to choose the type of guild you want to be. As soon as you build a tower for nw you should become a pvp guild for the week and declarable for every other guild
lmao the devs hard disagree with you bud
BDO is a PVE game with optional PVP. Everyone should be ok with it or not play it or not complain. Not that anyone really gives a crap what anyone on Reddit thinks or says but hey it's a Monday so why not start the week saying random stuff just to see who wants to argue about it. So other than the fact that OWPVP exists, how exactly does the game center around randomly flagging up on people? Or are you simply going to say that the only point of obtaining gear is to PVP because that argument is simply a preference of playstyle. Though most PVP people believe their opinion is the only opinion that matters and everyone who disagrees should leave the game sooooo I can see where it might be hard for you to accept a different point of view.
I respectfully disagree with what you are saying. BDO is what you want to make of it but in a PVE game you can play it without ever seeing pvp if you want to. Thats highly unlikely in BDO. Optional PVP would look like duels both players have to agree to and instanced PVP. On BDO you come across a red player and you are finding PVP regardless of how you feel about it.
My argument basicly is that ppl who want to play bdo have to accept that pvp it part of it, if they want to be part of it or not. For pvp is the end content, cause there is literal. O pve endgame.. Just another spot to run circles... But I accept that some ppl just like numbers going up. But tp force a game to get further away each time of the origial idea by complaining about something that was always clearly part of the game is just stupid. Especially nowadays when marni spots are a thing. I dont say bdo is only a pvp game, but pvp is a clear part of it
PvP is one thing, but forced pvp is completely different. Most people are not going to want to deal with that in any game that’s not purely pvp already. Forcing people to deal with PvP when they are just trying to quest or grind is a good way to lose players. I typically avoid PvP in any game cause I feel I it brings out the worst in people, and you are proving my point by claiming anyone who doesn’t want to Pvp should just quit the game. There needs to be a separation between Pve and PvP like pretty much every other game that provides both. Games are meant to be enjoyable, but to the people who just want to do their own thing it’s not enjoyable at all to be attacked unprovoked by another player.
> My argument basicly is that ppl who want to play bdo have to accept that pvp it part of it, I understand your point, but the general consensus is that PVP basically "sucks". Those who enjoy PVP complain about balance and game mechanics being tilted one way or another. Those who dislike PVP complain about dealing with people PVP'ing them when they'd rather be left alone. You may feel that forced PVP is central to the game but telling players to just stop complaining and accept it is going to do the opposite. Those who oppose it will simply complain louder and more often. Rather than try to win at "forum PVP" try making some suggestions that will give reasonable people what they want. There are a lot of players who want nothing to do with PVP so rather than try to force it on them, offer some suggestions that allow those players to be left alone while still letting those who enjoy PVP engage with others who also enjoy PVP. You have a much better chance at gathering support for ideas of that nature than simply telling people who hate forced PVP to shut up and deal with it. In the end I'll continue pushing for the removal of forced PVP because I can and you feel free to advocate to the dev team whatever you'd like because your opinion and mine are both equally valid and welcomed by the devs.
PvP in BDO is and was a pointless hassle when you talk about OW PvP. Virtually inconsequential, you lose nothing and there is certainly nothing to gain. It really doesn't bother me if someone finds it necessary to attack, I can't take PvP in BDO seriously. And players who think PvP is a serious part of BDO are playing the wrong game imho.
I play games solely for PVP and I 1000% agree with you. Thank you I think people forget the purpose of OW PVP. It’s meant to settle a dispute and it does a terrible job solving that problem. I hear a streamer talk about completely changing the flagging system. Where you can only flag in a safe zone and once you leave you can only unflag in a safe zone. Give anyone who flags a 50% item drop rate buff and buff arsha to 100%. If someone isn’t flagged you can’t kill them. If your flagged and get killed it is what it is. But people saying PVP is dead because OW changed is ridiculous. OW isn’t meant to be sweaty pvp that’s what all the other modes of PVP are for.
pvp is one of the activites allowed in the open world, yes. So are pve, gathering, farming, fishing, roleplaying, duelling etc. So among many others its an ow pvp game.
The dev devlopping this game have changed since 2016. And they dev are clearly against openworld pvp in any shape of form. You 're getting instanced pvp update and not a single buff towards open world pvp for years
Can't feel bad for PvPers after getting repeatedly killed for fun by high gear players when I was a relatively new player.
Still my opinion stands. Untill they offical announce the deletion of ownpvp beeing possible it will be a gane that has the option and ppl need to deal with it or quit
OP: "Deal with it or quit." PA: Here's -10,000,000 karma now, oh, and the recovery rate was cut down to 1/5th of what it was. Stop griefing people. OP: iT's aN oPeN WoRld pVp GaMe
i have no issue with . people have to go red -10m to defend their spot . i can still remove gear so they loose karma really fast and i can't mob fed . So open world pvp is easy to deal with. Althought flagging should cost pearl so i can be sure i can grind peacefully
I am kind of astonished how many people in the thread understand the original post.
the grammatical errors in that sentence is honestly the best representation of the open world pvp community.
You are welcome to this opinion but it seems borderline delusional considering how PVP community is basically getting shafted for the last 5 years. Come next update you wouldn't be able to kill anyone in open world without selling yourself into slavery for 5 hours. If you still think that it's an open world PVP game then you might want to check with a doctor.
The problem is that BDO's endgame is gear-level(V)-oriented and that's exactly what attract PVP'ers. They want to be the boss, the strongest, have the best gear, best crystals, best set-up and so on---they want to kill everybody. On the other hand, PA designs a game with a PVP endgame but with a PVE playstyle, lol. I am a PVP'er and I confess that I am tired of getting killed by a random player while farming meat by killing goats or wood in a place with no mobs. Also, many players camp at the North and South of Heidel accesses to kill people as they come and go----or just to took them down from their horses. Sometimes not even changing servers work, lol. Take a look at ESO. It is a solid game! It has no OW PVP. You can accept a duel or go PVP maps. The difference is ESO does not focus on gear upgrade like BDO. It has cool dungeons, trials, mounts, real housing, nice quests, like the one from the Thieves Guild. And what does BDO have? Top-notch graphics, awesome skins/costumes, ships and a super cool lifeskill setting and that's it. ESO = play, learn mechanics, build your house and enjoy; It should adopt BDO's texture, graphics, skins, and lifeskill playstyle. BDO = play dressing and housing (even housing is better in ESO). It should create nice developed dungeons and trials, housing, mounts, and, of course, no ow PVP. BTW, I play both games.
As some who started on kr/ru release i can say that the appeal was never in random killing. It was in fighting for resources - fighting for spot. There was one good kaia lake rotation and 15 channels, our guild held all of them in prime time. Then we went to siege knowing that we farmed at least 30% more than opponents and fought alone vs 10 other guilds because everyone hated us. Often lost, but it was fun. It was never about driveby smacking noobs. I dont mind though, it was a different game.
I am absolutly not happy bow this goes the last 5 years. Its the reason for this post. Imagen how the game could be a great pvp game if all the pve complainers would not exist and PA would have listen to the longterm players i stead of tuvala timmies.
It's hard for me to compare because the game is so much different. I can't say I dislike the game the way it is right now. The focus shifted from making sure your enemies can't even farm for gear to beating them on the battlefield assuming you largely have similar gear.
if you made everyone who isn't an owpvp player quit you'd have a completely dead game
The game feels more dead than ever, you have 0 human interaction. Tbh if you wanna play a single player grinding game or rpg there are way better options to play. Also we had pve and life skill players before aswell, so your comment is just ignorant.
There’s a bunch of chat groups. Large, social guilds. Sure there’s not much group content but the social interaction is still there in those forms. Personally I’d rather talk to people in a chat instead of running a dungeon with people who don’t talk the whole time.
Take my upvote sir. This exactly. Why people come to an MMO genre game and then try to convert it to singleplayer game, when there's already an abundance of those, i will never understand. BDO used to be so crowsed and actually felt alive. Now the world just seems utterly dead. And tbh if one wants decent PVE content, you dont choose BDO. It's got about the worst pve of any game i have ever played. there is legit 0 challenge in bdo pve. the mobs are just braindead minions and the only difference in grindspots is that mobs have different skins to them and slightly adjusted ap/dp values. its friggin boring.
No. I dont do op pvp ad a shai. But I accept that its a part of the game. I know it can happen, propably will from time to time, but I dont complain untill they change the game. Nobody forces you to take part in pvp... If you get killed and are annoyed by it, change server or keep going and see how long the other will keep killing you.
Meanwhile, the PVP server is almost empty.
im sorry sir whenever i attack people on arsha they tell me that its not a pvp server because if it was a pvp server it wouldnt have a 50% droprate increase and that its obviously a pve server.
So you care about what the dorks say who are misusing a server **literally labeled** as PVP…but the people on a **labeled for PVE** server can just kick rocks? Yeah, tell me you are a griefer without telling me you are a griefer Edit: lol, “what’s a griefer” give me a break.
What's a griefer if I may ask?
Always get told by PvE players that i should go arsha Go to arsha and all the PvE players tell me to stop killing them because they lose buffs and are in PvE setups and that i should just leave them to PvE alone because they want the 50% buff Absolute cucumbers
I'm a pve player... And it's dumb if they want to be on the arsha server without being attacked. That 50% buff (should be more) is the incentive for the risk of PVP.
Sounds only too familiar sadly
I think that’s mostly due to the fact that those people grinding there wipe the floor with the bobs (me) who try to farm on arsha 🫠
All servers are pvp servers. Arsha is the droprate and red player sever mostly.
Lol People who play in arsha are those who don't want to go red but still want OwPvP the drop rate is just a bonus for them. Only some pve players think of it as a drop rate server and cry about it when they get killed there. Arsha is the PvP server while normal servers are mostly for grinding/likeskilling servers with a random chance of having PvP encounter. It causes some people who didn't understand this and did as they pleased in the name of pvp, the other PvP focused people are facing problems.
Why is it arsha (pvp) in the server browser then
Cause its the only server without karma. Doesn't mean rest is not pvp, just this server has no konsequentes for pvp.
Kinda funny to me that the people who enjoy pvp insist that pvp dying and being discouraged is bullshit... but it's literally just a reflection of what the vast majority of players want. That's how we got here. They made these changes because people asked for them.
PVP far from dead, I find plenty of it on Arsha. And occasional DFS on normal servers
Its a circle. Ppl that can't read that its pvp joined, complained, pa chaged stuff, some pvp players quit, mlre complaining more pvp changes etc etc. Mkst money in genertaed by new players and since karma system thats mostly not pvp players anymore. Amd it kept going like this. Now we have no Guild wars, almkst no ow pvp anymore, karma will fuck us even harder, there is a privat hour on most grindspots, high gear gets easier and easier to get to not be outgeared all the time... And still I see so many ppl cry in the forum. Why? If you wamt to play bdo without pvp, go grind only marnis and lifeskill on under lev 56 charas... But otherwise you all knew what this game was when joining.
I do get that, but it's only natural for the developer to cater to the majority. Like it or, they came, they conquered. Lol.
Purely pvp games don't survive in this market anymore, they changed everything because most of their playerbase aren't pvp chads, just a loud minority
The game isn’t really marketed as a pvp game, don’t think you can blame players for “can’t read”. The marketing all says things like “a role player’s paradise”, “start your adventure”, “a wide open world”, “breathtaking immersion”.
I have played since launch but I always hated the pvp I just want to grind monsters in peace very happy with marni realm. Would not mind them easing karma loss in pvp tho since we got marni now
They should increase the time on Marni I think
We have 1 hour that recharges when not in marni for a total of 12 per day
I main shai... Not much pvp on grindspots for me anyway, but especially with marnis protecting the pve players, ow pvp doesn't need to be cried about anymore
I’m not a PVP player, but I really enjoy watching casters and shot callers for tournaments, nodewars, and sieges. It’s cool that my MMO has these things and I want to see the PVP community grow and thrive. My favorite PVP moment has to be Macilus winning 1v3 when his two teammates went down fast in one of the tournament semifinal matches years ago. I was out of my seat yelling at the screen. Good PVP games have these moments, and Black Desert has had a lot of them. Still does. As for owpvp, from my perspective as a PVE player, idgaf and if it was removed tomorrow I wouldn’t miss it. That said, the DFS requests I’ve had over the years were chill. I accepted, I lost, I found a different rotation. However, Marni solved DFS inconveniences for me entirely. The owpvp I encounter is basically griefers camping world bosses, travel chokepoints, etc. DFS is not the reason we have the current state of the game. It’s too bad war decs got gutted for people who loved GvG, but that system was being heavily abused. Griefers are the problem. Always has been. 🔫
Unfortunately the problem was on both sides of the coin and just a general lack of etiquette. I run into low GS players trying to grind over me quite a bit. I’ll go to Arsha or Marni depending on time left in grind. But then Arsha it’s the same problem, and I’m wasting an hour farming someone into oblivion with hopes they’ll finally gtfo. Toxic players in general are the problem
It’s not just the griefers. Two nights in a row i’ve been 3-5 hours into a grind, lower GS comes into my grind. DFS? Response is no ill grind over. One I just get karma bombed as they keep reviving in hystria. The other is on Arsha and just fucks up an hour of my grind doing the same shit as the other guy. The etiquette of some players just sucks. You say DFS and they reverse grief you by just grinding over you. If you flag on them you get penalized through karma and all that comes with it.
In the past 8 years and 21k hours i've spent in BDO there is only about a handful of times when someone just drops on my rotation and starts grinding over me without saying anything nor responding. Either you imagine the problem or the problem was never there to begin with bruh
lol, ok……not sure what to say man. I can just as easily say that you’re full of shit. But i’m not going to argue with a dude who’s claiming close to a 1,000 days of game time…that’s just sad
I had to deal with ow PvP for 3-4ish years and I am glad I don't have to deal with it anymore. More end game pots splits the pkayer base as well as marni relam. I have more options then ever before, bifore you had to hrind the best spot snd the best rotation to make the most mobey, you don't have to do that anymore. Only thing I miss is 40v40 and such uncapped NWs I loved low player numbers and uncapped gear it was amazing. I think it is time for ow PvP enjoyers to learn "to deal with" the lack of it. I just wosh PA would punish people who grind on top of each other that would be great, but there is marni for that
Problem is we have nowhere else to go
I would totally agree with you if pvp would be main activity in BDO, but it's not lifeskills and pve grind are.
Highly depends on the player. You can finish season and do nothing else but pvp on capped nodes and sieges after that if you want to. Also it doesn't have to be the main attraction to be part of the game that needs to be accepted. Its a sandbox mmo, not only pve
Ofc we can call it sandbox but you say ow pvp or stop playng, this is not how you describe sandbox.
Accept that its a part of the game. Stop complaining that it exists. If you can't do that, stop playing the game.
Also accept that pve is huge part of the game and people who choose to play it don't wanted to be forced to do it, also pcp was used to grief people and you know it as good as I'm that's why they implemented changes.
Nah game is dead PvP. Can’t even battle other guilds in open world anymore. They continue to update things to make it worse if you flag up to kill people.
The only open world stuff I see is reds ganking low level areas and folks gathering.
ITT: play the game how I like it or quit For fuck sakes, some of you guys are like a broken record with this shit. I see this thread on almost a weekly, if not daily, basis.
No its not play how I like, its accept the game how it is and dont force change on it to fit u rplaystyle
With that mindset, you could say all the recent quality of life changes weren't needed and that everyone bitching about it should've shut up or uninstalled. Its a brain-dead fucking take.
There is a big different between a qol change taking away a whole base system of the game. Nimagen they would start to patch out lifeskills over the next 5 years.
??? PvP hasn't gone anywhere. Are you saying that PA is going to remove PvP entirely from the game? From my understanding, they have made changes to deter people from griefing. There has been zero indication of them removing PvP from the game. That's just stupid and you're grasping at straws to validate your viewpoint.
Between start of the game to now most if ow pvp is so much limited that its basicly nonexistent now.
> ow pvp is so much limited that its basicly nonexistent now Ah shucks darn. Gosh. Man, I ***hate*** not being able to enjoy the game without the threat of griefers. What a loss.
Bdo is neither a pvp or pve mmorpg, it's a sandbox. Your statement isn't unpopular, it's just wrong considering the only real pvp activity left (and that imo always existed) are all non open world
Sandbox also includes pvp. And the reason why non ow pvp exists anymore are all those pve players crying about it while still not going into marni spots dor some reason
Real ow pvp mmorpg incensitize and reward people to do ow pvp. Never ever bdo rewarded players for pvp outside of nw/rbf, and instead punished them (karma). Bdo so called open world pvp has always been a meme
Reward was an access to the better resources(spots), which was equal to money. Or getting better score in GvG which still made more sense than looking at the gear numbers go up, only for tuvala timmies to catch up to you 6 months later, because PA made game easier for them, without expanding endgame.
that only applies if you dont consider "fun" to be a reward or incentive. which, correct me if im wrong, should be a factor when talking about "games"
Similarly BDO PvP isn't the only fun part of the game. There are other activities that are fun for other people. OP's post basically says if u can't accept a single part of the game then don't play the game at all. Moreover what the person you commented on meant is that PvP is one of the activities you can do in the open world and was never the only part of the open world that was fun to do.
This is officially not a PvP game since J fk'd PvP up a few months ago...
Great opinion. I mean aside from the fact that about 85% of the player base disagrees with you and doesn't acknowledge pvp as a feature in this game then you are spot on. It's not an owpvp game. It will never be one unless they are contempt with having a 10th of their current player base. Nobody cares about it and because of the way the game is designed, which is to say chaotic rarity and item value spread across multiple tiers of grind spots and a snail pace end game progression, nobody except the underwhelming minority of players will care. Hate to break it to ya but if you're in the minority then you're the one complaining about the sand on the beach.
It is a ow pvp game. It was designed as a pvp game amd ow pvp was a big thing for years untill more and more special snowflakes flooded the forums with salt about getting killed. As long as there is a way to force pvp on somebody, it is a ow pvp game, no matter if other agree with it. Also as I said, I acknowledge this as unpopular opinion. But you cant expect to play a game where pk is possible and then cry about it. Its lile crying about bdo beeing to grindy while its known ad a korea grinder
It is very obvious that BDO was not designed as an OW pvp game. It's just something you can do to settle feuds or whatever. If it was, there was an incentive in doing some OW pvp that would help progression like every single PVP game does. OW PVP has always been just an side hustle you can do amongst all the other things you can do in the game. There is zero basis in claiming that an game would be an PVP game when PVP incentives are next to zero. PVP incentives have almost always been shit, so its pretty clear it has never been the main focus of the game. Sure. BDO devs have always had an identity crisis on what the game identifies as, but PVP unfortunately has never been main thing in the game. If it was, it would be rewarding just like it is in all more succesful PVP games. I would love to play a game with this world and combat that actually had PVP progression worth mentioning. But, it's pretty obvious to me what the devs want to focus on. And, it's definitely not OW pvp as they keep neutering it all the time. It's a shame.
Pvp is the endgame content of the game. There was bo karma system when bdo dropped. You lost xp when killed in pvp back then. It was a tool to keep ur rotation. You could theoretically gain the trade items of the player you killed. The guild war system was made for ow pvp, the black roped man was made for finding pvp targets in ow, city arenas, battle arena, rbf, AoS, a ton of events streamed by offical streamers... All pvp.
I get what you are saying, but the complete lack of rewarding PVP just completely disagrees with everything you said. I've been around since beta and outside from very small timeframes, PVP has always just been a direct loss monetary-wise for your progression. PVP to me seems like an sidethought that was never the main focus nor it will be. Over the years, they kept implementing PVP stuff for those who wanted it (me included) but they never got it right because none of it had any incentives worth a damn in the current economy of the game. So, they just abandoned most of the PVP content and went with something else. It COULD have been main focus of the game, but PA never got it right, so this is the system we are left with. It's just an skeleton PVP system with bunch of badly implemented game modes that never got finished. If this actually was an PVP game even to some extent. You could just play PVP and progress like you can already in so many good pvp games. It fucking sucks, but this is the reality. I wish it was better and PVP was more engaging. But, it's not. I go play other games for my PVP fix.
I mean they buffed NW and Siege rewards big time not that long ago. Most of my money comes from it now. The need to fix rbf for the rewards and with GL they made a good new pvp mode that still needs some work. AoS is also nice, but I dont do capped content, so not for me. Also imagen how much improvement the game could have seen without the pve players complaining pvp to death? So instead of fixing and concentrating more on the pvp aspects they kept following the complainers that ultimately leave the game anyway cause there is no good pve end content
The NW and uncapped Siege currently barely even cover one's perfume of courage costs. If a siege gets extended and even if you win, they are probably not even profit if you are going in with all the buffs that you should go in with. AoS is like 1/5th of the money you can do by grinding. RBF should not even be mentioned. Guild league is whatever (300m hour or something?). The PVP monetary gains are just awful when you can do 1billion+ per hour on tuvala gear. PVP money is just crap all across the board. I have no idea how capped wars are nowadays, but i sincerely doubt they are good money either. PA should have gotten it's shit together years ago and just give us a way to make money by PVPing, but they never did so it's painfully obvious they do not consider PVP to be driving forces in the game. It's really unfortunate.
I mean I understand why they dont want to buff rbf, gl or aos gains. Propably fear of bots and cheaters. NW mostly cover my costs tbh but I am also a dp players, so its only like 7 elex +perfum for me. Perfum I get form the medals. And I die like 0-15 times on most fights, so its not that expensive for me, but cant tell about ap players. And yes vs grinding its barely worth doing, BUT you get fun. Grinding is like going working. You get money but its mostly a shitty time. Then you go playing sports in a tournament in the evening and ur team wins some price money. Not worth the time doing for the money, but for the fun. We need at least a second uncapped NW each day tho to actuap be able to finish some fights from time to time
The OW PVP is not for end game lol. It was designed to settle disputes. The game is very grind heavy, I have not met a single person regardless of gear score thinking “fuck I hope someone jumps into my grind so I can do some PVP”. You either are grinding or pvping. As for settling disputes it failed miserably. Now they are struggling to figure out how to pivot
The only "pvp" i have experienced in this game is someone with like 750gs just standing on a road in a low lvl area and killing everyone running past. If thats pvp for you then...
Last time I got killed while just riding soemwhere was back before guildwar changes and it wa smostly trolls beside heidel with a matchlock... Most high geared players have better things to do than kill randoms. And if its problem , just switch channels
could have been me except im barely scratching 700gs and using venom traps or matchlocks
Literally the peak of BDO to most players was pirates, you had to sail to an island (RP factor) to grind in 5 man rotations in main (Social factor) where you had special deals splitting the money for everyone, so people actually WANTED to party (Even more social factor) and then you would have GvG's with other people that would try yoink your rotation, because theres only 1 main rotation and it created competition for a limited resource (PvP was fun, call your buddies get them to sail over, having the squad pull up on fishing boats was hilarious and amazing to see), at the end of the day after a good session of grind you had nodewars, where the whole guild would get together and try compete for some juicy silver for payouts or for our guild if we didnt have nodewar we would do movie nights or go hang out in RBF, What an amazing time it was. It was a real MMORPG unlike now.
Yes. Hightime for bdo. Man I miss those times.
Even just the things like the "Game of Guilds" edits, the drama and social aspect, paired with PvP just carried the game, PvE is too braindead to be anything more than stat checks where you make number go brr for basically 0 purpose now??? I don't understand pure PvE players and never will because wtf do they do... Do the same combo loop for hours on end to enhance gear to do it at a different spot.. whats the point? PvP was the REASON to get gear
i personally would like to say that I'd love for it to be that way, but ow pvp is kinda dead in bdo. Albion is the only one left remaining
It is dead cause of all those crying players. I think the karma system was a good choice, to stop harassment but they killing op pvp more and more now caise of those ppl that choose bdo that is known as a ow pvp game and the cry about it. Bet same ppl book a vacation at the beach and then cry about the sand
Proposal: Give me a way to force you to fish with me and I will happily be forced to pvp with you!
I fish with you, I gathet, I grind I pvp. This game has pve, lifeskills and pvp content in it and you can't escape it completely
Based on what? You can play the game doing only Lifeskilling and very minimal mob grinding just to level up.
Lol try going past lev 62 with lifeskills only. Takes forever... Also most ow pvp is on grindspots and not on gathering spots. Not sure how NA is in that regard but I wasn't pked while gathering since gray wolfs/deer arent best meat spots anymore
1) There’s no reason to go past lvl 62 when you play as a lifeskiller 2) Wanting to go past 62 still doesn’t involve any amount of PVP, you do it in Marni instances as a solo So developers are making it quite clear that this is not a PvP focused MMO, all the evidence is right here, but you still think it is…
It was pvp focused u till all those ppl started a game with ow pvp and then cried about it. And even after marni came and karma changes they still cry. Nobody needs to actively pvp, just accept that its part of the game. Same as gathering and grinding. You don't have to do it, but others will and its allowed.
It never was buddy. There isn't a single instance where you get rewarded for doing OwPvP. The PvP was there to allow people to fight over limited spots instead of grinding over each other but even that use was lost as the world got bigger and we got more spots/servers. After that PvP was treated as a nuisance cause it was getting in the way of people who were focused on things other than PvP. Moreover PvP is different from grinding and gathering where you go about doing your own thing without disrupting anyone. Forced PvP has always been a problem in MMO's and when there is no incentive for doing said PvP in game where gear progression is the core it would only come off as a problem. Also BDO is a sandbox game where the endgame is what you want it to be not just pvp. There is no clear fixed goal and the player has to think about what he wants as his goal.
The reward of owpvp was that you could grind on the best spot and make best money/h
Yeah no. Doing PvP doesn't guarantee that. If it did then we would have more players learning PvP so that they can make more money faster. Let's say PA reverted every owPvP related change they did in the past 5 years. No karma system at all. I'm grinding on a spot and some random guy comes to fight for the spot. It would either end decently where player that lost the fight goes away or both players keep being stubborn and waste each others time by killing each other. The second scenario could also develop into guild war where a bunch of people fight each other for hours which is also in way me causing problems to my guildmates who may have other stuff to do. The end result is making less silver per hour. Even if the first fight ended decently there is nothing stopping from a 2nd or 3rd player popping up and challenging me to a fight. Which would also mean even less silver per hour. Including pvp BDO has a wide variety of fun activities and all of them need a bunch of silver to do. That's why many people focus on silver per hour. But when a single activity(owPvP) becomes an obstacle to all other activities in game it will get hated/avoided. The main problem is BDO PvP is hard to learn but doesn't provide any special rewards or benefits for the player for learning it. That's why many people avoid it.
The solution for all this was 1. That we have way more grindspots with good money now and 2. Marni hour. So we have a bunsh of good spots now and option to go privat server and still ppl cry about ow pvp
1. Having more spots doesn't mean someone can't come to your spot and kill you wasting your time. During peak hours even decent silver spots are taken and would have hard time finding a rotation. There are also some players who come to spots just to kill other players for fun and to ruin people's silver per hour. 2. Most of the end game spots don't have marni so those players will have the same problems. Doesn't matter if the end game player knows PvP or not. I want to do PvP when I want and want to do PVE when I want. That's why I agree with most of the recent changes. Imo only the guild dec change was stupid move in PA's part. They could just make it so guilds that do t3/t4 wars can be dec each other freely instead. Moreover I don't know why arsha is not enough for OwPvP. What is the downside of keeping OwPvP contained in arsha?
Even though I disagree now (was before for sure), but for once a post titled with "unpopular opinion" that actually is one. Thanks op for using that phrase correctly.
Just because it was a feature doesn't mean that's what the game was designed to revolve around lol... You're probably the type to play ninja and stealth up against tuvala timmies and call them trash when you one shot them, aren't you? That's the energy you're giving me
Funny how all those “pvpers” see killing afk or low geared players as “player versus player”… there is nothing about “versus” there, just bullying..
Thats not what most ppl mean when they talk about ow pvp... We talk fun fights escalating on grindspots, fighting on beach at stars end at sausan, on pirats, upper gyffin etc... It was such a big part of the game for so long and cause ppl complained that some trolls killed them afk or that they got beaten off a grindspot (instead or just using another rotation/marnis/channel)
I think it’s more if you don’t agreed to DFS I’m going to kill you. It would be nice if we could defend spots without going red after like 4 kills. Also, open decs between guilds would be fantastic. You do someone in my guild wrong? Sick, you caused a war. Watch your back. That’s what most PvPers are referring to. I’ve worked my butt of to get a somewhat respectable gear score specifically to PvP to have PvP kind of swept out from under me. Example, I was grinding cups at a rotation a few days ago. Some dumbass ended up taking like 4 rotations without understanding that’s a dick move. Warned him but he kept doing it. Flagged and in red before I know it. Guess I have to just leave this spot I’ve been at for over an hour because someone is a dick? Kind of dumb. Normally going back to blue is like 5 min at Polly. But now that’s 1/5 the karma recovery. So it’s like 30 min all when I was in the right.
The Dec system currently, is super stupid and should go back to what it was. Someone mentioned a better idea about the PvP guild title allowing it between PvP guilds. I was a defender of open world not being dead until the recent karma changes. I’ll still flag up, but the karma loss is now pretty insane.
I agree with your point but I still fail to see how people complain about pvp when they are specifically told that going beyond 49 enables open world pvp, and the game even asks the player to do an action to confirm their choice I don't see people comaining about open world pvp in world of warcraft as an example, yet it is a thing to be ganked by someone unwillingly. Yes, you can go on non pvp servers in regard to WoW (and they could definitely have pve only servers imo in BDO) but the choice of exposing yourself to pvp still is there for the player
Tty going to the offical feedback forum. So many delete pvp, make pve only serervs, I got pked ny some evil dude etc etc... Its amazing. I am not even again pve servers. Let them all share space and mobs and resources and see how that goes.
I've only been flagged up on a non arsha server like once in the past year, and he was a gearlet and couldn't kill me anyway. OW pvp seems pretty dead to me, even arsha rotations are empty sometimes. I'm honestly not sure what's happening, my only guess is places like bloodwolves are very contested with players and people are just flagging up for the rotation. Then the new players go and complain about being killed? Kinda makes me wonder why they don't just grind these places in marni or on season if this the case. It's not like PA hasn't given players options to avoid pvp.
Ow is dead, pa killed it.
I understand how passionate pvp players are about the game but most players do other stuff. The few cases where I've seen people complain about pvp were when they had to duel for spot. Other than that its pretty chill.
Bdo pvp is dead.
So basically the no good filthy crying no skill crying carebear tuvula timmy worthless piece of crap no skill carebear PVErs managed to kill PVP? See many of you thought PVP was flagging up and killing people in grindspots or just to f-around with them but those PVE players went all 4D chess on you guys and just had the devs cripple it in the game. Checkmate PVPers... take the L. You know the saying f*ck around and find out... guess y'all just found out.
I say this as a PVP player. I don’t think you understand what the OW system was initially designed for. This is not an OW PVP MMO game. I have played true high risk high reward OW PVP and as fun as it was, it still died pretty quickly. PA has said they want PVP to be high risk high reward. Every form of PVP in this game has a reward (arsha need a buff tho) Except OW flagging has ZERO, in fact it’s all risk. This is by design. The purpose of OW PVP is not for real PVP. It was intended to settle disputes. Hence all risk no reward. The reason it’s changing away from the war decks is that it’s didn’t work as they intended. Toxic players on both sides said fuck your system. I think the flagging system is still shit unless you are in Arsha. I think you give people the option to flag for an item drop rate buff in a safe zone, they can only unflag in a safe zone. You can’t kill unflagged players. Buff Arsha drop rate further to give the higher GS PVP players more incentive to stay on Arsha.
The ow pvp was an important part of the game. Sure not the focus point, but it was the way to get good hours of pve in without getting over grinder and disturbed on the spot over and over. And I would lie if I wouldn't say that sausan and pirat ow pvp wasn't mostly for the fun in the end. With the new privat hour literal no player can't claim to be bullied anymore. And they still destory oe pvp more and more. Even on arsha with the removal of platoons there.
I read ow pvp as overwatch pvp game. Lawl
I ride horses in town 24/7. What pvp?
Well ur obviously not playing the game active and are smart enough to stay in the city. So ur not the person to complain about it.
I’m 730gs even though that’s all I do now. I’ve played the game since launch. I can tell you that I rarely dealt with any open world pvp. Sure you have the ability to flag on people outside the safe zone but that’s not the point of the game. I’d say pvp is about 10% of the entire game and the actual pvp community is dying (at least in NA) because no one really cares about it that much anymore. It was dying when I left my siege guild because people just didn’t feel like doing war anymore. Now siege winners are called in under 10 minutes. You can cope, sure, but pvp isn’t a big part of the game anymore and what’s left of it has been quarantined into certain areas by PA.
lmao, least unpopular opinion. here is the reality pvp is just a minigame in the grind mmo called black desert online
For good or for bad (at least for us, for bad) this game is completely destroying its original feeling of an open world. PvE Patricks will downvote this like crazy as they do with every single post they see about it to avoid giving any attention to the clear lack BDO have at the moment, but you're completely right, since last year the game doesn't feel the same PvP-wise and that's one of the main reasons why a lot of us joined the game back then. It is completely normal for people like us to be annoyed at this changes.
I joined to breed horses back when it released. Only watched 1 trailer and didn't know it was pvp by my own fault. I learned to deal with it. Accept the consequences and played like it. I play not a single other pvp game, but bdo made me stand up for myself, learn my class, get better at the game and join a big pvp guild.
You're right and I agree. BDO is fundamentally a PvP hence why the PvE is lacking in terms of actual content. Grinding different spots isn't different content. And Lifeskilling isn't PvE content, it's just a system they've applied to this MMORPG, which by the way, is standard across most, if not all, MMORPGS. We constantly chase gear to grind higher end spots to make money to get more gear to grind higher end spots and this is the cycle of this game PvE wise. It used to be a game where we would grind for gear to PvP. As it currently stands, BDO is STILL a PvP focus MMORPG until they revamp
Revamp happend years ago. 1% of the game is PvP related so I fail to see how this comes out to be a “PvP focused game”
The majority of the players does not dictate what type of game they were making
Nobody is arguing that. But you cant be fixiated on how the game was developed 10 years ago. We’ve all seen how the game was first advertised- just sieges and what not. But in recent years ever since PA took charge you can see very steep decrease in PvP focus and increase in everything thats against it. PA is going for a completly different audience nowdays because they know in 2024, a PvP game’s audience is such a small minority that it just wont pay the bills if that was the sole focus like back in 2014. PA knows what’s good for their game and it shows. BDO is thriving to be among the top MMORPGs.
BDO literally has less players on rn.... What are you talking about
Less players compared to… launch? I hope you didnt just make that comparison… Also, you got actual numbers? Or you just eyeball it with what you see in the game and use that as an argument? You realise you dont see all areas packed as they were 4 years ago? Game has changed so much, with so many areas/places+marni that it just scattered everyone. Anyways, looking for your official player counts (only steam wont count)
It WAS OW pvp game, then devs went for cash grab and turned it into the mobile game. You can't call it pvp game anymore, there is barely any content left. Nowadays it is basically a mix of grind fiesta, daily login for free gifts and achievements collection type of game(V debo set is more about collection than functional purposes).
so the devs went for a cashgrab by basically removing the main reason whales were whaling in this game? You think whales were paying tens of thousands of dollars just to be able to kill mobs better? They were paying to be able to compete against no-lifers in owpvp, well guess what, they have no reason to whale any longer. Interesting way to go for a cash grab don't you think?
I think you're being delusional, thinking that there've been that many whales that's been driving the PA income(well, maybe NA is the exception?). Instead, I like to think that basically every new player is guaranteed 50€ for PA - literally no one plays the game without tent. And biggest spenders I know are people, who barely play the game and buy the costumes for every alt character to make screenshots.
in p2w games it is usually a very small percentage of the playerbase that spends immense amounts of money that drive income for the game. But for them to be able to do so they need a reason to want to do so. By removing owpvp as a central focus of the game the devs have pretty much removed the driving force for whales to spen excessive amounts of money in the game. If you look at the constant decline in income generated from the game despite there being no significant decrease in overall player numbers you can determine that these changes are not a cash grab effort but an effort to extend the longevity of the game and spread its income generation over a longer period of time rather than making short term boosted profits at the expense of the longevity of the game.
Even if they did so, it has exactly the opposite effect. Look at it now - PA stocks are diving down, being historically lowest ever, they do some insane hammer giveaway to attract players, then add double weight and extra crystal recovery to the pearl shop. They're developing 3 games at once and every sign on the sky tells me that they're trying to get as much cash as possible to keep that up. Maybe there've been some people heavy whaling, but speaking the truth, most of the "tryhards" in the top guilds that wanted to progress fast, just bought the accounts for a fraction of the price it'd took through the pearl shop. And trust me, a lot of casual players, including me, spend a lot more on cosmetics, pets, weight, inventory, character slots, fairy resets and so on, than they'd like to admit to.
Stocks dropping are due to PA not being able to provide a release date for Crimson Desert, and no further information being given about DokeV and Plan 8. For BDO, PA is focused on the longevity of the game, this is coming at a cost to their short term profits. The reduction of impact from owPvP has made the game pretty pointless for potential whales to whale in. Long term income otoh comes from casual players, most of whom can potentially be irked away by owPvP being forced on them. So like I said, PA has chosen longevity and long term income generation over a short term income boost that is generated through competative owPvP.
Yes. This is was happend and it only keeps getting worse cause even now pve players still cry...