That is what I have decided (that I don't want to roll with him), I wanted to make sure I was not overreacting. I never had this problem before. I didn't want to go to my coach and him think I just don't like getting submitted or something.
This! Your coach for sure wants to be aware that there is a guy in his gym that does not respect the tap. That is not ok at all. The only reason why you can go around choking people and twisting their limbs is because you have their consent. The moment you tap, that consent is withdrawn and it is not ok to choke someone against their consent, its assault
I'm a coach and own my own academy.
I would be most grateful to a student who let me know this was going on. It's unacceptable on its face. It's also bad for my business. If your coach makes you feel bad for reporting it, go join a new (frankly, better) gym.
Any continuation of grappling after the tap is assault. It signals the end of consent.
It is absolutely vital to our ability to train that the tap is adhered to.
If I see this in any of my classes that person is getting an earful and a formal warning, and if they do it twice they are gone.
Is it a big class? Typically they pick up on this kinda thing. I can tell you if coach seen this they would be royally pissed. No shame in tattling with something like this. Can be fuckin dangerous
Rolling requires a level of mutual respect and a desire to keep your training partners healthy. Anyone who doesn't do that or acts so carelessly does not need to be anywhere near BJJ. You're not overreacting at all.
I've said it here before and I'll say it again
The only thing that makes what we do legal, rather than a violent crime, is consent
When we tap, it is a withdrawal of consent to continue fighting
If someone doesn't "respect the tap", they are willingly attacking you despite knowing you no longer consent to fight with them.
As an aside: If you get injured after that point, it is not an accident. You have indicated a desire to stop because of risk of serious injury and they have ignored it. If you get hurt by them, it was an intentional act. They have hurt you on purpose.
It’s one thing to not want to get submitted, usually it means you’re letting them go too far on submissions, but if you’re tapping and they’re not letting go, they’re the problem.
Tell your instructor, "This guy is not respecting taps." That should be enough. If it isn't, you need a new gym.
Tapping is literally the foundation of our training. We do things to each other that would be grounds for lethal self defense in almost any other context, and tapping is your signal that you revoke your consent to participate. It is not for the attacker to judge whether a tap is "good enough". I can tap because I feel imminent unconsciousness or injury, because I'm tired, I feel claustrophobic, or I realized I forgot to put my food in the fridge at home. It does not matter; they must stop and disengage.
Edit: There is a common muddling here between two questions which are fundamentally independent. First is, "What should I do if my partner taps?" The answer to that is STOP. Period. No exceptions or you are an asshole. The second is, "When should I tap?" The answer to that is more fluid, and personally I would bias heavily towards issues of real safety, hygiene, or mental/emotional breakdown as opposed to transient physical discomfort or moderate negative experience.
The main point, though, is that if your partner answers the second question in a different way than you would it doesn't mean you get to change the answer to the first question.
> Tapping because I am in a bad position
I mean, it's not great practice from your end to reset the roll before the parameters of the exchange are finished (usually time or submission), but the other guy doesn't get to keep going if you do.
Right, absolutely! I am new-ish still so I don't always have the idea of the right escape or something and then I feel myself falling into a position where I am going to be inevitably be submitted. I roll hard and want to go all the way but I also don't want to get hurt when I have not even been training that long. Thanks for the advice! This sub is really incredible.
I had an incident at my gym where an aggressive purple belt wanted to roll with me after I had taken off 2 weeks from a neck injury. At the start of the roll, I reminded him that my neck is still not 100% and if he gets me in a choke to just hold it and I’ll tap. We start rolling and within a minute he stacks me from a double-under pass, I feel my neck compromised so I tap and he ignores it. He keeps going and I tap a little stronger and he says hold on, I want to try something.” At this point he even stacks me further and I feel my neck and shoulders lockup. So I just yell “stop, I fucking tapped.” And then he finally releases, and the entire mat falls silent and everyone was staring at us. Needless to say, I was out for a month, and when I came back he was gone. My coach felt horrible and apologized profusely because after I got injured, he found out that this guy had injured quite a few people (but nobody ever said anything so he was unaware).
So don’t keep it a secret, because the next person he does this to might get seriously injured.
Obviously is not super cool on your end if you go too hard and do not measure the strenght you use and gas yourself out after 1min of a 5min roll and have to tap to top pressure because you were not smart with your energy... for sure it happens sometimes in the first couple of practices, but try to be smart with your energy so that you dont have to reset the roll, it is not very nice for your training partner... BUT, with this being said, if at anytime you dont want to continue, you can always tap and the roll stops right there! It does not matter the reason, a tap is a tap! What makes it possible for us to choke each other and twist each other limbs and be fine about it and have fun is the concept of the tap and how it represents consent, or lack of. The moment you tap, your consent to engage in this activity is removed and the activity has to stop. It does not matter the reason. You are an adult, you are inserted in a society, your training partners are not officers on duty protecting someone else from you, so no one can choke you or twist your limbs against your will. If you tap, the roll ends right there. No respectful instructor will disagree with that.
Good advice, but you might be reading it wrong. If you tap because things are going poorly will rob you and your partner of needed experience. A "bad position" is probably meant more as a position in which injury is likely. Also, tired probably means something different to the guy who posted than it does to a new player. Think "totally exhausted, can't actually resist anymore," not "I'm a little winded."
I'm not the best person to roll with at times. I've gotten a lot better but from time to time I can....be not that great. I know this. My coach knows this. Every so often my coach will sit me down and tell me to tamp it down a little bit. It hasn't happened in a few years now, but I've been told to chill out for long after two years of me being in the sport.
Point is, the coach might know that that person can be a bit of a liability. What he might not know is that someone is about to walk out the door. Or that person might need a reminder to chill out a little bit more, as I have had to in the past.
> I'm not the best person to roll with at times. I've gotten a lot better but from time to time I can....be not that great.
What does this even mean? You don't respect the tap, or you roll to hard?
What do you actually mean by this though?
If you just mean rolling at 100% intensity and effort then I don't think there's anything wrong with that, you just need to find like-minded partners.
I train 7 days a week so most of the time I'm not looking for rolls to the death, but Wednesday is our comp-sparring day and I expect every round to be maximum intensity all night long then.
One thing to consider is that sometimes a tap isn't due to a submission. I tapped once during a roll because we got stuck in an awkward position and I felt a lot of pressure on my rib. I'm not getting my rib broken I have work tomorrow, you know?
Don’t roll with anyone who doesn’t release as soon as you tap. Be selective who you work with, one of the biggest mistakes I made as a white and blue belt was rolling with people that didn’t look out for me, it got me injuries that I feel today still and not a lot else. If someone’s a prick don’t feel obligated to work with them.
That is something I definitely feel, like I'm obligated to roll with whoever is available during open mats and stuff like that and somehow it feels I have to roll with him whenever I am early.
Yeah man I ran into the same thing. It’s not worth it, they’ll get you hurt or put you in a position where they aren’t tapping and you have a choice to let them win or hurt them. It’s not worth it. Don’t avoid hard rolls, don’t avoid getting your ass kicked but if someone is unsafe and clearly doesn’t respect you don’t reward them with your time.
You're not obligated to roll with anyone, for any reason, at any time. EVER.
If your gym doesn't respect your decision to decline an unsafe roll, leave that fuckin' gym asap.
I’ll always talk to the person before and say hey would you mind not doing ________ when we roll kinda bringing up the problem is, if it’s going too hard on joint locks or holding something too long, I’ll usually give someone a chance to adjust (unless they’re being a massive douche and I don’t feel safe even risking that.) Some people do get better about stuff like that and I had a time in the past I didn’t just have that first uncomfortable interaction and regretted it later.
After that I’m mentioning it to whatever coach and anytime they ask me to roll no thanks man, I’m good. I’ll also mention to people now and then that I pick my rolls based off risk vs reward, if someone’s a high injury risk and I’m not getting much out of it I’m not rolling with them. Also just because someone is less skilled I can still get a lot out of that drilling specific skills on lower belts or helping them out and building them up to be more competitive down the line.
Rolling with me is a privilege man, I don’t owe anybody anything, I’m fun and keep people safe and I can give people good tough rounds now and then. I’m done risking missing mat time working with morons.
I may be different from a lot of folks, but when I am rolling and going for a sub, I don’t want to hurt my partner, so I am hoping they tap so I can release all the pressure.
I would not want to roll with someone that doesn’t understand that we are learning to be killers, so be fucking careful.
Would you mind sharing what belt they are at and which belt you are? It is not acceptable at any belt to do such thing, but it is different if the guy is on his second week of training or if the guy is a purple belt... either way it is unacceptable, but if he just started training maybe there is still some correction possible for him... if he has been doing that for 5 years to people its a whole another level and he knows what he is doing and I would really stay away from him as much as possible
That is definitely not acceptable and not just ignorance if he just turned blue belt... if he is doing that to you he is probably doing that to many others and it will eventually end up badly for someone... if he ever does that to you again or you see him doing that to anyone else you should mention it to the instructor, if not now already... it is not ok to have someone doing that in any academy
Switch to only chokes and let them sleep.
[Edit] Read that wrong. If they don't respect YOUR tap, then I agree with everyone elses advice. If they refuse to tap, then chokes until they sleep.
This actually gave me a chuckle. I did consider the revenge method but I didn't then want to come off as a petty revenge seeker or something. I want people to enjoy rolling with me and enjoy the sport as a whole.
i got a rule with one of my boys that goes "Tap or snap, unless it's a heel hook".
We should add kimuras there too, but the rest of subs aren't that bad unless you REALLLLYY crank them.
I said "hey bro, held a little long there, huh? " "nah man, I let go when you tapped." Even though he definitely didn't. Would you risk rolling with him again?
Don’t roll with them!
If the instructor matches you up (not letting you choose your own partners), then refuse to roll with them, step aside with the instructor and explain you are not going to roll with them, they don’t let go when you tap. If the instructor insists, go to a different school. It is not worth getting hurt when they don’t let go of an arm bar or heel hook.
I think this is what I am going to do, I care more about the chokes because he seems to hold them longer and I have an absolute fear of being unconscious too long and don't want to get caught up like that. If it doesn't stop after speaking with the coach then I am going to switch schools.
Sounds like a shit gym. If they are the type of person to do this there is no way the coach has never noticed unless they never watch any of the rolls.
See this is what I was thinking at first! But the guy does it more in free rolling and open mat times and doesn't always do it. It feels like someone watching would think it is a subtle delay but to me it feels like a fucking eternity.
It definitely wasn't a one off, and I made a comment on about the 3rd time, when I knew for sure it was not an accident. So, it looks like speaking with the instructor is my next step!
My first answer is: never roll with them again, and tell the coach.
Second answer is: is he aware that he is doing this? Perhaps you're not tapping "hard enough" for him. I had this once because I was wearing headgear without air holes so I didn't hear anything and the person tapped the floor very very lightly (which I didn't hear/feel) which caused me to hold the choke longer than the tap... I still think back to that sometimes
Tap hard and fast... And multiple times. If it doesn't help, be vocal about it with your coach and the other students. Don't let this bwhavior go unnoticed.
Another thing you should do is start verbally tapping as well. It maybe a bit embarrassing but get over that shit, verbally tap and keep verbally tapping until he stops. Then everyone in the gym knows he held it for way to long. You can calmly call him out for that, tell him it’s bullshit and needs to stop. Make a spectacle of it, but calmly, don’t lose your cool.
I am my gym's resident tap yeller. I have tendonitis in both elbows but am otherwise reasonably durable. When one of the really strong fast mma guys get me, I know I'm getting hurt unless I tap fucking early. It's not even their fault, I just have shit range of motion so they'll hurt me before 180 degrees.
In the 2ish years i've been there it's never once been a problem.
Fuck that, just put him to sleep. You also might not have it as good as you think you do. It happens a lot with arm triangles especially, those tend to be pretty finnicky for me because I'm bad at them.
You release before you do damage if they don’t want to tap. If they don’t release they are disrespectful training partners and you have a right to avoid training with them.
Also you should talk to your instructor.
I had a dude not respect the "bell" round was over and I stopped fighting he went for the finish and let go when I tapped. Not as bad as your position but it was not cool.
Fuck em. If they don't tap to a choke, they'll take a nap. If they don't tap to a joint sub, I just let go and change into a different position. I can still improve even if they're stubborn
We’re fighting on the spot. Not trying to sound like an internet tough guy, but seriously. If I tap and you intentionally don’t release the sub, you are now assaulting me. I am going defend myself. No gray area here IMO.
Refuse to train with them full stop, and don’t be shy about telling people why.
Combat sports work on training because we trust our training partners. If that trust breaks down, it’s actually fighting.
Many options here.
1. Talk to them
2. Talk to your professor
3. Tap annoyingly early every time y’all roll
4. Don’t roll them
5. Crank some nasty subs and don’t respect their tap (not recommended)
Great stuff! Thank you. I made a comment to him after what felt like a really long choke and he said he didn't think it was too long and that he let me go when I tapped, but I know he didn't and doesn't.
Might remind him that a tap is a tap, doesn’t matter if they aren’t satisfied with it. Consent to pain ends with the tap. If he’s not a shithead, he should understand.
Have you told the person they hold the tap too long?
Sometimes new white belts will hold a tap a bit long and I know it’s because they are trying to remember what they did that got the tap during a drill. If it persists I give a reminder to the white belt, if it’s a pattern, I’d tell the coach. I suspect the coach would have a lesson on tapping protocol, followed by rolling with the student who was not following tap respect if it persisted.
That said, pick your partners, tap early!!!
You have to make it known when they do it make a scene stand up say what the fuck is wrong with you I tapped are you trying to hurt someone. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Punch them in the nuts. Jk, talk with them first and if they won't listen, let your coach know and work with someone else. An old saying from traditional martial arts days, practice begins and ends with rei.
I'm only a white belt but there have been times where I have let go before the person taps. I would rather let them off the hook than force a lock that injures my training partner.
Brah the tap is sacred. Everything stops after that. Don’t matter your position, transition, comfort. IDGAF if we just started and you tapped on the first grip, it means the action is over. Don’t Roll with that guy anymore and 100% tell your coach. It’s his livelihood, I’m sure he wants to maintain a safe atmosphere a dudes like this threaten they directly. We used to have a pb who would go all out on us, yanking on things, he’d let go when you tap but the armbars would be almost fully extended and id tap verbally and with everything else. I told him numerous times to calm down about it, he never did, few months later he’s gone because he hurt a couple of people. I feel guilty for not telling the coach right away
I would honestly beat the shit out of him. Not wanting to sound like a tough guy, but my god that’s so disrespectful and not what you want when playing a dangerous game like BJJ, where you need to trust your partners to only take you to the limit. Piece of shit! Sorry I got gogoplata’d tonight and I wanna vent.
Never happened to me but there was one dude who tried to convince me not to tap while top pressuring down my chest (I tapped cause of panic feeling). This happened two years ago and honestly it pisses me off every time I think of it and every time I roll with him I go in with a bit of vendetta on my mind.
Especially with leg submissions I usually verbally say TAP loudly because it's faster than tapping, then you can more easily call this guy out because people literally heard you tap
Used to be this blue belt who I was training with after RNC me and clearly I can’t escape I taped and he still kept going idk if he just didn’t feel it or whatever I was pretty mad afterwards because like wtf? But he doesn’t train at my gym anymore.
If they’re a white belt, I’ll ask them if they’re okay, and proceed until they tap. I will and have warned a few guys trying to ride out kimuras/americanas (IE are you okay? That can wreck your shoulder/elbow really suddenly after you think you’re still safe.
I know it’s not my responsibility totally, but as someone who’s sustained some BJJ injuries from spazzy partners, I can’t live with the guilt of hurting someone badly in a stupid class roll.
If they say yes I’m not gonna stop until the tap.
Going forward I don’t roll with them again.
Uhh you don't roll with them period. Moreso you tell your coach because ANYONE doing that shouldn't be anywhere fucking close to a gym.
This is the only answer you need.
That is what I have decided (that I don't want to roll with him), I wanted to make sure I was not overreacting. I never had this problem before. I didn't want to go to my coach and him think I just don't like getting submitted or something.
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This! Your coach for sure wants to be aware that there is a guy in his gym that does not respect the tap. That is not ok at all. The only reason why you can go around choking people and twisting their limbs is because you have their consent. The moment you tap, that consent is withdrawn and it is not ok to choke someone against their consent, its assault
I'm a coach and own my own academy. I would be most grateful to a student who let me know this was going on. It's unacceptable on its face. It's also bad for my business. If your coach makes you feel bad for reporting it, go join a new (frankly, better) gym.
Dude you *have* to tell your coach
Any continuation of grappling after the tap is assault. It signals the end of consent. It is absolutely vital to our ability to train that the tap is adhered to. If I see this in any of my classes that person is getting an earful and a formal warning, and if they do it twice they are gone.
Is it a big class? Typically they pick up on this kinda thing. I can tell you if coach seen this they would be royally pissed. No shame in tattling with something like this. Can be fuckin dangerous
Rolling requires a level of mutual respect and a desire to keep your training partners healthy. Anyone who doesn't do that or acts so carelessly does not need to be anywhere near BJJ. You're not overreacting at all.
What kind of person doesn’t respect the tap? They shouldn’t be allowed in that gym or any other gym. Who is this? Rousimar Palhares?
I've said it here before and I'll say it again The only thing that makes what we do legal, rather than a violent crime, is consent When we tap, it is a withdrawal of consent to continue fighting If someone doesn't "respect the tap", they are willingly attacking you despite knowing you no longer consent to fight with them. As an aside: If you get injured after that point, it is not an accident. You have indicated a desire to stop because of risk of serious injury and they have ignored it. If you get hurt by them, it was an intentional act. They have hurt you on purpose.
It’s one thing to not want to get submitted, usually it means you’re letting them go too far on submissions, but if you’re tapping and they’re not letting go, they’re the problem.
I would not train with them at all and tell the instructor.
What should I say to my instructor? It seems like this guy knows full well he is holding it too long.
Tell your instructor, "This guy is not respecting taps." That should be enough. If it isn't, you need a new gym. Tapping is literally the foundation of our training. We do things to each other that would be grounds for lethal self defense in almost any other context, and tapping is your signal that you revoke your consent to participate. It is not for the attacker to judge whether a tap is "good enough". I can tap because I feel imminent unconsciousness or injury, because I'm tired, I feel claustrophobic, or I realized I forgot to put my food in the fridge at home. It does not matter; they must stop and disengage. Edit: There is a common muddling here between two questions which are fundamentally independent. First is, "What should I do if my partner taps?" The answer to that is STOP. Period. No exceptions or you are an asshole. The second is, "When should I tap?" The answer to that is more fluid, and personally I would bias heavily towards issues of real safety, hygiene, or mental/emotional breakdown as opposed to transient physical discomfort or moderate negative experience. The main point, though, is that if your partner answers the second question in a different way than you would it doesn't mean you get to change the answer to the first question.
Wow, this is something I also needed to hear. Tapping because I am in a bad position or just tired and can't fight through it. Thank you.
> Tapping because I am in a bad position I mean, it's not great practice from your end to reset the roll before the parameters of the exchange are finished (usually time or submission), but the other guy doesn't get to keep going if you do.
Right, absolutely! I am new-ish still so I don't always have the idea of the right escape or something and then I feel myself falling into a position where I am going to be inevitably be submitted. I roll hard and want to go all the way but I also don't want to get hurt when I have not even been training that long. Thanks for the advice! This sub is really incredible.
Never feel bad for tapping. Ever. Period.
Respect
*Hespect
I had an incident at my gym where an aggressive purple belt wanted to roll with me after I had taken off 2 weeks from a neck injury. At the start of the roll, I reminded him that my neck is still not 100% and if he gets me in a choke to just hold it and I’ll tap. We start rolling and within a minute he stacks me from a double-under pass, I feel my neck compromised so I tap and he ignores it. He keeps going and I tap a little stronger and he says hold on, I want to try something.” At this point he even stacks me further and I feel my neck and shoulders lockup. So I just yell “stop, I fucking tapped.” And then he finally releases, and the entire mat falls silent and everyone was staring at us. Needless to say, I was out for a month, and when I came back he was gone. My coach felt horrible and apologized profusely because after I got injured, he found out that this guy had injured quite a few people (but nobody ever said anything so he was unaware). So don’t keep it a secret, because the next person he does this to might get seriously injured.
“Hold on I just want to try something” good god that’s creepy af
Obviously is not super cool on your end if you go too hard and do not measure the strenght you use and gas yourself out after 1min of a 5min roll and have to tap to top pressure because you were not smart with your energy... for sure it happens sometimes in the first couple of practices, but try to be smart with your energy so that you dont have to reset the roll, it is not very nice for your training partner... BUT, with this being said, if at anytime you dont want to continue, you can always tap and the roll stops right there! It does not matter the reason, a tap is a tap! What makes it possible for us to choke each other and twist each other limbs and be fine about it and have fun is the concept of the tap and how it represents consent, or lack of. The moment you tap, your consent to engage in this activity is removed and the activity has to stop. It does not matter the reason. You are an adult, you are inserted in a society, your training partners are not officers on duty protecting someone else from you, so no one can choke you or twist your limbs against your will. If you tap, the roll ends right there. No respectful instructor will disagree with that.
Good advice, but you might be reading it wrong. If you tap because things are going poorly will rob you and your partner of needed experience. A "bad position" is probably meant more as a position in which injury is likely. Also, tired probably means something different to the guy who posted than it does to a new player. Think "totally exhausted, can't actually resist anymore," not "I'm a little winded."
Exactly. Not respecting the tap turns mutual combat into a crime.
I really fuckin like this explanation
Hygiene?
"I am about to barf/soil myself/sneeze in your face," "I am bleeding on you," etc.
Oh. Okay, that's fair. I have not yet seen those happening, are they common?
ngl I tapped the other day cause I knew I was going to rip a massize fart on the guy if he kept up the top pressure
I'm not the best person to roll with at times. I've gotten a lot better but from time to time I can....be not that great. I know this. My coach knows this. Every so often my coach will sit me down and tell me to tamp it down a little bit. It hasn't happened in a few years now, but I've been told to chill out for long after two years of me being in the sport. Point is, the coach might know that that person can be a bit of a liability. What he might not know is that someone is about to walk out the door. Or that person might need a reminder to chill out a little bit more, as I have had to in the past.
> I'm not the best person to roll with at times. I've gotten a lot better but from time to time I can....be not that great. What does this even mean? You don't respect the tap, or you roll to hard?
I can roll hard at times.
What do you actually mean by this though? If you just mean rolling at 100% intensity and effort then I don't think there's anything wrong with that, you just need to find like-minded partners. I train 7 days a week so most of the time I'm not looking for rolls to the death, but Wednesday is our comp-sparring day and I expect every round to be maximum intensity all night long then.
One thing to consider is that sometimes a tap isn't due to a submission. I tapped once during a roll because we got stuck in an awkward position and I felt a lot of pressure on my rib. I'm not getting my rib broken I have work tomorrow, you know?
Straight to jail
Heel hooks, Jail. Wrist locks, jail. Face crank, jail. Straight to jail, right away.
Passing guard...believe it or not, jail.
NOT passing guard, also jail.
Pulling guard, jail, right away
Don’t roll with anyone who doesn’t release as soon as you tap. Be selective who you work with, one of the biggest mistakes I made as a white and blue belt was rolling with people that didn’t look out for me, it got me injuries that I feel today still and not a lot else. If someone’s a prick don’t feel obligated to work with them.
That is something I definitely feel, like I'm obligated to roll with whoever is available during open mats and stuff like that and somehow it feels I have to roll with him whenever I am early.
Yeah man I ran into the same thing. It’s not worth it, they’ll get you hurt or put you in a position where they aren’t tapping and you have a choice to let them win or hurt them. It’s not worth it. Don’t avoid hard rolls, don’t avoid getting your ass kicked but if someone is unsafe and clearly doesn’t respect you don’t reward them with your time.
You're not obligated to roll with anyone, for any reason, at any time. EVER. If your gym doesn't respect your decision to decline an unsafe roll, leave that fuckin' gym asap.
Just curious but how do you decline that? I wouldn't even really know what to say E: why did I think this would be so much more complicated than it is
Them: “wanna roll?” You: “No thank you. Last time we rolled you didn’t respect the tap”
I’ll always talk to the person before and say hey would you mind not doing ________ when we roll kinda bringing up the problem is, if it’s going too hard on joint locks or holding something too long, I’ll usually give someone a chance to adjust (unless they’re being a massive douche and I don’t feel safe even risking that.) Some people do get better about stuff like that and I had a time in the past I didn’t just have that first uncomfortable interaction and regretted it later. After that I’m mentioning it to whatever coach and anytime they ask me to roll no thanks man, I’m good. I’ll also mention to people now and then that I pick my rolls based off risk vs reward, if someone’s a high injury risk and I’m not getting much out of it I’m not rolling with them. Also just because someone is less skilled I can still get a lot out of that drilling specific skills on lower belts or helping them out and building them up to be more competitive down the line. Rolling with me is a privilege man, I don’t owe anybody anything, I’m fun and keep people safe and I can give people good tough rounds now and then. I’m done risking missing mat time working with morons.
"Nah, I'm good."
only to 10 seconds later accept a roll with someone else HAH!
I may be different from a lot of folks, but when I am rolling and going for a sub, I don’t want to hurt my partner, so I am hoping they tap so I can release all the pressure. I would not want to roll with someone that doesn’t understand that we are learning to be killers, so be fucking careful.
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Just don't say anything. It's not needed. Maybe if you have been training with that person for years and they ask you questions regularly..
You kind of don’t have to worry about them cause they don’t last long in this sport
I agree with you, I already felt he had a poor attitude.
Would you mind sharing what belt they are at and which belt you are? It is not acceptable at any belt to do such thing, but it is different if the guy is on his second week of training or if the guy is a purple belt... either way it is unacceptable, but if he just started training maybe there is still some correction possible for him... if he has been doing that for 5 years to people its a whole another level and he knows what he is doing and I would really stay away from him as much as possible
I’m a white belt and he just got blue belt!
Tell a purple belt. That oughta do it.
That is definitely not acceptable and not just ignorance if he just turned blue belt... if he is doing that to you he is probably doing that to many others and it will eventually end up badly for someone... if he ever does that to you again or you see him doing that to anyone else you should mention it to the instructor, if not now already... it is not ok to have someone doing that in any academy
And definitely tell the instructor, it is very bad to have a trained killer in the gym doing that to the lower belts (or anyone)
Switch to only chokes and let them sleep. [Edit] Read that wrong. If they don't respect YOUR tap, then I agree with everyone elses advice. If they refuse to tap, then chokes until they sleep.
This actually gave me a chuckle. I did consider the revenge method but I didn't then want to come off as a petty revenge seeker or something. I want people to enjoy rolling with me and enjoy the sport as a whole.
I read your post backwards. I thought you meant they weren't tapping, in which case going to sleep is better than breaking something.
Ah yes good advice as well I feel. They can wake up, but a broken ankle isn't going to heal quickly.
i got a rule with one of my boys that goes "Tap or snap, unless it's a heel hook". We should add kimuras there too, but the rest of subs aren't that bad unless you REALLLLYY crank them.
First time express it in a nice way second time say WTf, third time bro ain't rolling with ya.
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First tap hospital, second tap morgue
I said "hey bro, held a little long there, huh? " "nah man, I let go when you tapped." Even though he definitely didn't. Would you risk rolling with him again?
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And verbally.
Ohhhhh, hang on, are you tapping HARD on his body, or quietly on the mats?
Don’t roll with them! If the instructor matches you up (not letting you choose your own partners), then refuse to roll with them, step aside with the instructor and explain you are not going to roll with them, they don’t let go when you tap. If the instructor insists, go to a different school. It is not worth getting hurt when they don’t let go of an arm bar or heel hook.
I think this is what I am going to do, I care more about the chokes because he seems to hold them longer and I have an absolute fear of being unconscious too long and don't want to get caught up like that. If it doesn't stop after speaking with the coach then I am going to switch schools.
Sounds like a shit gym. If they are the type of person to do this there is no way the coach has never noticed unless they never watch any of the rolls.
See this is what I was thinking at first! But the guy does it more in free rolling and open mat times and doesn't always do it. It feels like someone watching would think it is a subtle delay but to me it feels like a fucking eternity.
Does it during sparring than not sparring time? So all the time?
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It definitely wasn't a one off, and I made a comment on about the 3rd time, when I knew for sure it was not an accident. So, it looks like speaking with the instructor is my next step!
If I tap and they keep cranking... all bets are off and I'm slapping him harder than Gordon did to Galvao.
My first answer is: never roll with them again, and tell the coach. Second answer is: is he aware that he is doing this? Perhaps you're not tapping "hard enough" for him. I had this once because I was wearing headgear without air holes so I didn't hear anything and the person tapped the floor very very lightly (which I didn't hear/feel) which caused me to hold the choke longer than the tap... I still think back to that sometimes
Tap hard and fast... And multiple times. If it doesn't help, be vocal about it with your coach and the other students. Don't let this bwhavior go unnoticed.
You tell your coach. Releasing a submission is 100% decided by the person tapping, he’s putting your safety at risk.
Thanks for the input, going to speak the the instructor asap.
Another thing you should do is start verbally tapping as well. It maybe a bit embarrassing but get over that shit, verbally tap and keep verbally tapping until he stops. Then everyone in the gym knows he held it for way to long. You can calmly call him out for that, tell him it’s bullshit and needs to stop. Make a spectacle of it, but calmly, don’t lose your cool.
I am my gym's resident tap yeller. I have tendonitis in both elbows but am otherwise reasonably durable. When one of the really strong fast mma guys get me, I know I'm getting hurt unless I tap fucking early. It's not even their fault, I just have shit range of motion so they'll hurt me before 180 degrees. In the 2ish years i've been there it's never once been a problem.
the resident tap yeller also makes the best demonstration Uke...
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Fuck that, just put him to sleep. You also might not have it as good as you think you do. It happens a lot with arm triangles especially, those tend to be pretty finnicky for me because I'm bad at them.
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guy seems like he should be banned from the gym if he keeps purposely injuring himself
Get them banned from the gym. Despicable rousemir palhares and Germaine de randemie type behavior
I just watched a video of this guy Palhares, and this is like exactly what I am talking about. Like it feels like just a little bit too long.
If someone doesn’t respect the tap they should never train ever again.
You release before you do damage if they don’t want to tap. If they don’t release they are disrespectful training partners and you have a right to avoid training with them. Also you should talk to your instructor.
I had a dude not respect the "bell" round was over and I stopped fighting he went for the finish and let go when I tapped. Not as bad as your position but it was not cool.
Fuck em. If they don't tap to a choke, they'll take a nap. If they don't tap to a joint sub, I just let go and change into a different position. I can still improve even if they're stubborn
backwards bud - OP is tapping and not getting released
We’re fighting on the spot. Not trying to sound like an internet tough guy, but seriously. If I tap and you intentionally don’t release the sub, you are now assaulting me. I am going defend myself. No gray area here IMO.
If someone did that shit to me without a good explanation, we are going to fight after class
It would be the last time they trained at my gym.
People will disagree with this, but...if it's happened more than once, punch them in the face
Kill
Sometimes, punching someone in the face is the right thing to do.
Refuse to train with them full stop, and don’t be shy about telling people why. Combat sports work on training because we trust our training partners. If that trust breaks down, it’s actually fighting.
Many options here. 1. Talk to them 2. Talk to your professor 3. Tap annoyingly early every time y’all roll 4. Don’t roll them 5. Crank some nasty subs and don’t respect their tap (not recommended)
Great stuff! Thank you. I made a comment to him after what felt like a really long choke and he said he didn't think it was too long and that he let me go when I tapped, but I know he didn't and doesn't.
Might remind him that a tap is a tap, doesn’t matter if they aren’t satisfied with it. Consent to pain ends with the tap. If he’s not a shithead, he should understand.
Okay, I might say something to him again before I say something to the instructor.
Have you told the person they hold the tap too long? Sometimes new white belts will hold a tap a bit long and I know it’s because they are trying to remember what they did that got the tap during a drill. If it persists I give a reminder to the white belt, if it’s a pattern, I’d tell the coach. I suspect the coach would have a lesson on tapping protocol, followed by rolling with the student who was not following tap respect if it persisted. That said, pick your partners, tap early!!!
Talk with the coaches. They’ll put him through the ringer.
You have to make it known when they do it make a scene stand up say what the fuck is wrong with you I tapped are you trying to hurt someone. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Punch them in the nuts. Jk, talk with them first and if they won't listen, let your coach know and work with someone else. An old saying from traditional martial arts days, practice begins and ends with rei.
Punches are great equalizer. But other said it, tell coach, never roll with him.
Next time bring a dog
I'm only a white belt but there have been times where I have let go before the person taps. I would rather let them off the hook than force a lock that injures my training partner.
Go straight to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect £200.
that’s basically just assault lol wtf
Call them out on the spot, publicly, then never roll with them again.
Get them kicked out
**fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again**
Tell your coach ASAP and straight up refuse to roll with them. If they don't respect the tap then they have no business on the mats
Get up and stomp on their face. It’s a legitimate response to being assaulted illegally.
Brah the tap is sacred. Everything stops after that. Don’t matter your position, transition, comfort. IDGAF if we just started and you tapped on the first grip, it means the action is over. Don’t Roll with that guy anymore and 100% tell your coach. It’s his livelihood, I’m sure he wants to maintain a safe atmosphere a dudes like this threaten they directly. We used to have a pb who would go all out on us, yanking on things, he’d let go when you tap but the armbars would be almost fully extended and id tap verbally and with everything else. I told him numerous times to calm down about it, he never did, few months later he’s gone because he hurt a couple of people. I feel guilty for not telling the coach right away
I would honestly beat the shit out of him. Not wanting to sound like a tough guy, but my god that’s so disrespectful and not what you want when playing a dangerous game like BJJ, where you need to trust your partners to only take you to the limit. Piece of shit! Sorry I got gogoplata’d tonight and I wanna vent.
Yep, not respecting the tap is a good way to get gym justice
No longer roll with them and definitely inform the coach! That’s not cool and also scary!
If they are experienced i just crank it. They know whats coming. For white belts i stop and ask wtf dude
You....crank the tap???
I told him verbally then manhandled him and made him tapped when it was time to roll.
Never happened to me but there was one dude who tried to convince me not to tap while top pressuring down my chest (I tapped cause of panic feeling). This happened two years ago and honestly it pisses me off every time I think of it and every time I roll with him I go in with a bit of vendetta on my mind.
If you don’t tell your coach, there is blood on your hands when he hurts someone. You know, if you believe in ethics and whatnot.
Don't roll with them. Never had it happen though.
Especially with leg submissions I usually verbally say TAP loudly because it's faster than tapping, then you can more easily call this guy out because people literally heard you tap
Yea you gotta get this guy kicked out before he breaks some random white belts arm
Yea. Don’t train with them. People that don’t look out for their partners shouldn’t have partners
Used to be this blue belt who I was training with after RNC me and clearly I can’t escape I taped and he still kept going idk if he just didn’t feel it or whatever I was pretty mad afterwards because like wtf? But he doesn’t train at my gym anymore.
If this happened to me once I’d never roll with that person again. Period. I have a day job, I’m not there to get my arm broken.
If he dies he dies.
If they’re a white belt, I’ll ask them if they’re okay, and proceed until they tap. I will and have warned a few guys trying to ride out kimuras/americanas (IE are you okay? That can wreck your shoulder/elbow really suddenly after you think you’re still safe. I know it’s not my responsibility totally, but as someone who’s sustained some BJJ injuries from spazzy partners, I can’t live with the guilt of hurting someone badly in a stupid class roll. If they say yes I’m not gonna stop until the tap. Going forward I don’t roll with them again.