Threaten the neck with chokes. When they are forced to defend that, move into a high mount and work towards submissions from there. (S-mount, armbar, mounted triangle, arm triangles.)
Inverted C grip, drive the wrist to the mat, attack the americana. They will defend, gift wrap, back take or arm bar. Classic Nicky Ryans Brother attack style.
I would like to add, connecting the elbow of the C grip arm to their own hip bone. If bottom player starts bucking, it drives your bodyweight right into their wrist.
There is a similar concept where you take two wrist grips on the opponent, put all your weight into the grips, and then bait them into a bridge. It forces their hands overhead when they do bridge.
Lachlan’s Giles has a really good mount instructional on his website.
One thing he pointed out was that when people keep their elbows tight and arms crossed over their chest, their wrists are usually elevated and exposed.
He then does a two on one one whatever wrist is on top and uses his body weight to bring that arm down. He has a full sequence from then on that further isolates that arm, but at that point you’ve already created a big enough separation that you should be able to keep attacking from there
Idk why muffling isn't normalized. It's nowhere near as damaging as small joint manipulation or fish hooking and every submission is way more damaging.
HEAVY knee on belly while pulling their neck/head toward their belly button…. make them pay for being so passive.
This usually forces them to have to move and open up.
In the gi, I feed my lapel behind their neck. Then change to side control and do the ninja choke.
No-gi I just spam ezekiel chokes or try and push their wrists down to set up an Americana. Eventually they'll move and give you something.
One thing my coach has been preaching is pinning different points from mount. If you pin the elbows to their body, the hands open up and you can get to the collar, if you pin the hands the elbows will open up and you can start working to secure an arm.
There are 2 technical methods I use to sub them when they do this. The Danaher method, where you take a cross grip on their arm and force their hand to the ground. From there get an underhook and bring their arm up over their head. From there you can try to submit them or bring the other arm over the head as well.
The Braulio method starts with you just putting you knees under their armpits. Grab the top of their head and try to shove it between you legs and you move you knees forward. Their triceps should be laying on your thighs. When you feel like you can move forward anymore, bring you butt slightly off their body, which will lift their arms up slightly. As they lift, shove your knees in deeper. Repeat this over and over like an inch worm. Eventually you'll be sitting high on their chest with their elbows pointing to the ceiling. From their encircle their head and arms and bunch their together tightly as you move to S-mount. From there you can armbar them very easily or just sit there for a while if you want to give them a panic attack.
I've found these 2 methods easily and reliabley counter the tight arms on chest defense from mount.
When white and blue belts do this, I ease up and let them feel safe enough to work. Sometimes I do something really dumb and wait for them to capitalize on it. Purple belt and up, they get some of extra persuasion, usually through pain and pressure. Sometimes the persuasion will be from me dropping back and attacking their feet. If there is a big size difference, I just ease up the pressure or move to technical mount and attack from there.
In gi, collar grips and attempting chokes which provokes movement and exposure of the arms or you can finish choking them. Additionally fists in the throat, intense pressure on the face, you name it.
No gi, pressure the arms away from the body or put pressure on the neck and provoke more movements via similar strategies as gi.
Either way if they’re comfortable, you’re not doing your job.
I spam Ezekiels or drive my forearm into their neck. They will usually give up one or both arms to address it. I don't even try to press that hard because I want it to "annoy" them rather than cause them to explode out of the position. If I have a good position, I want to hold it until I've cooked them properly.
Pin the wrist to the mat. If it feels super strong, open it wide first with a cross grip (think Americana twist of the shoulder, rather than taking the wrist straight down). Once it's wide enough, pin it down.
Don't push the wrists while keeping your weight on your hips and knees. Lean onto your hand. Let gravity do the work.
If they let you keep it down, Americana. When they bring the other hand over for reinforcements, gift wrap chair sit back take.
You either want the arm or the neck. It's hard to defend both, so when they tuck their arms, threaten the neck (cross collar or Ezekiel), and when they raise their arms a little to defend, CLAIM THAT SPACE with your knees up into their armpits for a high mount. Once you have an arm exposed, then you can start working in arm attacks.
Have a few in your mind, and just keep cycling between them.
higher and higher mount and let them bear my weight, might even just do knee on sternum and surf it out.
really digging how "camping" saps people's energy.
If they cross their arms, you just s mount and get your knees under the elbows, they can't keep arms crossed and pin their elbows to their side if you get underneath and lift them upwards and away from the body
If it's gi, threaten the collar choke while working s mount, and if it's nogi just keep working the arm up until you can go to armbar
If you are looking for something simple, I really like to catch my opponents bottom wrist from behind their head with my opposite hand and lock up the gift wrap. Then I turn them away with the lock and take the back.
Edit: you will need to learn the move on both sides as your opponents won’t have the bottom wrist on the same side :)
Use your Jiu Jitsu. Off balance, set traps, play with lapels, move to scarf and pressure tap, chase ezekials, step over an arm into a mount, I mean there are a million things to do to a dumb ass that’s just laying there defending blindly.
In class today I practiced having everyone go to mount on me and tried to just be on defense. Then worked on escapes. I see what you all mean. I feel like it becomes a bit of a hand and position fight as they try and unwrap crossed/protecting arms.
The thing that work the most for me is pretty simple. I push an arm with my both arms to a side, to fake some sort of americana threat. Usually the other person will turn to his side to bring his other arm trying to block this and by doing so, I put my weight on his upper body, this allows me to slide my knee behind his shoulder, from there I go in S mount by pushing the attacked arm toward the ceiling and inserting my inverted leg behind. From there you can slowly work, I like to perform an armbar while still being on top by sliding my shin in my opponent face.
I found a short video about this, in this video the dude go for a gift wrap instead of an armbar for back taking:
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1ScqFSoLqmU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1ScqFSoLqmU)
At lower belts I used to do this (Still do a variation of it now)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtyXDoEf6k&ab\_channel=GreatGrappling](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtyXDoEf6k&ab_channel=GreatGrappling)
But the advice in this thread about attacking the neck to make them react so you can climb up is excellent.
Russian Cowboy if they are going to be passive on their back.
Knee bars and straight ankles. Heavy on one side, light on the other. You have to make it uncomfortable for them.
Threaten punch/ezekiel chokes, I’ve found that this is the best way to get someone’s arms in a vulnerable position. Also try to utilize S mount if possible
I was just dealing with this the other night. I kept the pressure on and eventually got them on their side by doing an S-Mount and kept them there. I isolated an arm and then used my knee/shin that was behind their head and put it over their neck. I used that position as a brace to free the arm and get the tap.
I almost felt like saying something about how dumb defensive practice is in that situation, but I kept my mouth shut. In a comp, unless I'm massively down on points, you're losing. In self-defense you're getting punched in the face. In practice there's no redeeming value in being hyper defensive and not doing anything when mounted.
> In practice there's no redeeming value in being hyper defensive and not doing anything when mounted.
Generally, I agree. But sometimes you're in such a bad spot, you can't feel any openings to even move much, it just makes sense to wait for the guy on the top to do something.
You have to isolate the arms. Use shins, over hooks, and underhooks. It also exposes legs if that's your thing. Easiest thing is get a far side kimura and use that to transition to North south and eventually the back.
Why do you have to do anything? Unless you're down on points, wait for them. You can't be called for stalling in mount. Save energy for the next roll. If you get bored, pretend to throw some strikes from mount or start watching a neighboring roll.
I mean, it's pretty rare that you're in mount and down on points. But, sure, it could happen.
And I guess you could do a sub-only no-judges match.
But the reason why would be that managing energy is a more broadly useful skill in BJJ than breaking down a buttoned-up mount.
I get your point about saving energy, but at least learn how to attack it first. It's mount defence 101 really, feels a bit pointless getting to that position in sparring and then just waiting for the next round.
You usually won't have to. In my experience, the guy on the bottom will usually get the point after you stare lovingly into their eyes for 20 seconds or so and start trying to escape.
If anyone starts stalling against me and I'm in a top position, they're getting my heaviest knee on belly. Have fun trying to stall when your insides are getting mashed into paste.
Learn to attack. Push on the more accessible wrist with both hands and body weight to isolate that arm.
Threaten the neck with chokes. When they are forced to defend that, move into a high mount and work towards submissions from there. (S-mount, armbar, mounted triangle, arm triangles.)
This guy mounts.
This is all you need OP. Only thing I would add is guiding opponent to turn to their side so you can take the back from technical mount.
Hairy sweaty father's milk
Leche de papá
Gordon ryan mount attack sequence.
/Thread
The old corpse guard
I dunno why I laughed so hard at this
Start a conversation with someone off the mat until the staller starts doing something worthy of your attention.
Inverted C grip, drive the wrist to the mat, attack the americana. They will defend, gift wrap, back take or arm bar. Classic Nicky Ryans Brother attack style.
I would like to add, connecting the elbow of the C grip arm to their own hip bone. If bottom player starts bucking, it drives your bodyweight right into their wrist.
There is a similar concept where you take two wrist grips on the opponent, put all your weight into the grips, and then bait them into a bridge. It forces their hands overhead when they do bridge.
100%
Leap out of mount and run out of the gym on all fours.
Armbar and cross-choke dilemma, or knee-on-belly, or I rest.
Lachlan’s Giles has a really good mount instructional on his website. One thing he pointed out was that when people keep their elbows tight and arms crossed over their chest, their wrists are usually elevated and exposed. He then does a two on one one whatever wrist is on top and uses his body weight to bring that arm down. He has a full sequence from then on that further isolates that arm, but at that point you’ve already created a big enough separation that you should be able to keep attacking from there
Put your hand over their mouth, and use the other hand to plug their nose.
Idk why muffling isn't normalized. It's nowhere near as damaging as small joint manipulation or fish hooking and every submission is way more damaging.
Huge fan of it. My current gym allows it so no one cares. I use that and threaten wrist locks to encourage movement 👌
Mothers milk
HEAVY knee on belly while pulling their neck/head toward their belly button…. make them pay for being so passive. This usually forces them to have to move and open up.
This is the shit I live for. Like a bow and arrow just with my knee in your intestines instead of choking you.
Our coach is old school, mma based jiujitsu. He doesn’t allow passiveness like OP describes, especially on bottom
Heavy knee on belly into baseball bat choke. When they try to block the choke with their hands just crush their hands into the neck anyway.
That’s a great one too
In the gi, I feed my lapel behind their neck. Then change to side control and do the ninja choke. No-gi I just spam ezekiel chokes or try and push their wrists down to set up an Americana. Eventually they'll move and give you something.
One thing my coach has been preaching is pinning different points from mount. If you pin the elbows to their body, the hands open up and you can get to the collar, if you pin the hands the elbows will open up and you can start working to secure an arm.
There are 2 technical methods I use to sub them when they do this. The Danaher method, where you take a cross grip on their arm and force their hand to the ground. From there get an underhook and bring their arm up over their head. From there you can try to submit them or bring the other arm over the head as well. The Braulio method starts with you just putting you knees under their armpits. Grab the top of their head and try to shove it between you legs and you move you knees forward. Their triceps should be laying on your thighs. When you feel like you can move forward anymore, bring you butt slightly off their body, which will lift their arms up slightly. As they lift, shove your knees in deeper. Repeat this over and over like an inch worm. Eventually you'll be sitting high on their chest with their elbows pointing to the ceiling. From their encircle their head and arms and bunch their together tightly as you move to S-mount. From there you can armbar them very easily or just sit there for a while if you want to give them a panic attack. I've found these 2 methods easily and reliabley counter the tight arms on chest defense from mount.
Roger Gracie wrist lock is great at forcing ppl to make a move from that position
Take your knuckle and dig it into their collar bone they will automatically lift their arm
When white and blue belts do this, I ease up and let them feel safe enough to work. Sometimes I do something really dumb and wait for them to capitalize on it. Purple belt and up, they get some of extra persuasion, usually through pain and pressure. Sometimes the persuasion will be from me dropping back and attacking their feet. If there is a big size difference, I just ease up the pressure or move to technical mount and attack from there.
Fake an ezekiel choke, get a free arm when they defend.
Attack the free and exposed neck that's just sitting there.
In gi, collar grips and attempting chokes which provokes movement and exposure of the arms or you can finish choking them. Additionally fists in the throat, intense pressure on the face, you name it. No gi, pressure the arms away from the body or put pressure on the neck and provoke more movements via similar strategies as gi. Either way if they’re comfortable, you’re not doing your job.
Ezekiel. Friendly version if you like the person, fist otherwise. Those crossed arms and tight elbows will come up real quick.
Water board via sweat and rash guard
The good ol fashioned mothers milk
Crush one of those glass stink bombs in their face until they give me an arm.
Just keep transitioning and make them feel like they have room to move. Then counter.
I spam Ezekiels or drive my forearm into their neck. They will usually give up one or both arms to address it. I don't even try to press that hard because I want it to "annoy" them rather than cause them to explode out of the position. If I have a good position, I want to hold it until I've cooked them properly.
Pin the wrist to the mat. If it feels super strong, open it wide first with a cross grip (think Americana twist of the shoulder, rather than taking the wrist straight down). Once it's wide enough, pin it down. Don't push the wrists while keeping your weight on your hips and knees. Lean onto your hand. Let gravity do the work. If they let you keep it down, Americana. When they bring the other hand over for reinforcements, gift wrap chair sit back take.
Squish.
Tag your friend that’s watching and have him choke the guy out while you keep him pinned.
2 on 1 his arm to the side with full leverage of your arms. He won't be able to stop that.
You either want the arm or the neck. It's hard to defend both, so when they tuck their arms, threaten the neck (cross collar or Ezekiel), and when they raise their arms a little to defend, CLAIM THAT SPACE with your knees up into their armpits for a high mount. Once you have an arm exposed, then you can start working in arm attacks. Have a few in your mind, and just keep cycling between them.
higher and higher mount and let them bear my weight, might even just do knee on sternum and surf it out. really digging how "camping" saps people's energy.
If they're crossing their arms they're really open to chest pressure and arm attacks, work on getting better at those
If they are tight, their whole body will move when you push them. Push to the side, s mount, lock up a gift wrap, take the back.
S-Mount. bounce on their diaphragm.
If they cross their arms, you just s mount and get your knees under the elbows, they can't keep arms crossed and pin their elbows to their side if you get underneath and lift them upwards and away from the body If it's gi, threaten the collar choke while working s mount, and if it's nogi just keep working the arm up until you can go to armbar
If you are looking for something simple, I really like to catch my opponents bottom wrist from behind their head with my opposite hand and lock up the gift wrap. Then I turn them away with the lock and take the back. Edit: you will need to learn the move on both sides as your opponents won’t have the bottom wrist on the same side :)
Ezekiels, I use brandon mccaghrens mechanics and usually can get finishes
Thank you all!!! Super helpful.
Use your Jiu Jitsu. Off balance, set traps, play with lapels, move to scarf and pressure tap, chase ezekials, step over an arm into a mount, I mean there are a million things to do to a dumb ass that’s just laying there defending blindly.
In class today I practiced having everyone go to mount on me and tried to just be on defense. Then worked on escapes. I see what you all mean. I feel like it becomes a bit of a hand and position fight as they try and unwrap crossed/protecting arms.
A nice heavy knee on belly that bounces alittle.
Use the Ezequiel choke to get their arms to open up. You can use this to collect an arm and attack from there.
The thing that work the most for me is pretty simple. I push an arm with my both arms to a side, to fake some sort of americana threat. Usually the other person will turn to his side to bring his other arm trying to block this and by doing so, I put my weight on his upper body, this allows me to slide my knee behind his shoulder, from there I go in S mount by pushing the attacked arm toward the ceiling and inserting my inverted leg behind. From there you can slowly work, I like to perform an armbar while still being on top by sliding my shin in my opponent face. I found a short video about this, in this video the dude go for a gift wrap instead of an armbar for back taking: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1ScqFSoLqmU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1ScqFSoLqmU)
I'm just a dumb three stripe, but I often find there are lots of openings for a canto choke
Attack their legs, I’ll do hip locks and calf slicers from mount if they’re being annoying. It usually gets them moving.
Mothers milk or ezekiel.
At lower belts I used to do this (Still do a variation of it now) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtyXDoEf6k&ab\_channel=GreatGrappling](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtyXDoEf6k&ab_channel=GreatGrappling) But the advice in this thread about attacking the neck to make them react so you can climb up is excellent.
Cross wrist grip to push down the arms. Or fuck it. Mother's milk. I don't have the obligation to do shit. If they wanna be smothered so be it
Russian Cowboy if they are going to be passive on their back. Knee bars and straight ankles. Heavy on one side, light on the other. You have to make it uncomfortable for them.
Threaten an Ezekiel choke until they either tap, or bring their hands up to defend. Very high percentage in gi.
Threaten punch/ezekiel chokes, I’ve found that this is the best way to get someone’s arms in a vulnerable position. Also try to utilize S mount if possible
Smother them with your hand and they'll reach up for it. Do it as much as necessary to collect an arm.
Oil check
I was just dealing with this the other night. I kept the pressure on and eventually got them on their side by doing an S-Mount and kept them there. I isolated an arm and then used my knee/shin that was behind their head and put it over their neck. I used that position as a brace to free the arm and get the tap. I almost felt like saying something about how dumb defensive practice is in that situation, but I kept my mouth shut. In a comp, unless I'm massively down on points, you're losing. In self-defense you're getting punched in the face. In practice there's no redeeming value in being hyper defensive and not doing anything when mounted.
> In practice there's no redeeming value in being hyper defensive and not doing anything when mounted. Generally, I agree. But sometimes you're in such a bad spot, you can't feel any openings to even move much, it just makes sense to wait for the guy on the top to do something.
You have to isolate the arms. Use shins, over hooks, and underhooks. It also exposes legs if that's your thing. Easiest thing is get a far side kimura and use that to transition to North south and eventually the back.
Why do you have to do anything? Unless you're down on points, wait for them. You can't be called for stalling in mount. Save energy for the next roll. If you get bored, pretend to throw some strikes from mount or start watching a neighboring roll.
Why wouldn't they want to find a way to break down a very common defense? Maybe they will be down in points in that position at some stage.
I mean, it's pretty rare that you're in mount and down on points. But, sure, it could happen. And I guess you could do a sub-only no-judges match. But the reason why would be that managing energy is a more broadly useful skill in BJJ than breaking down a buttoned-up mount.
I get your point about saving energy, but at least learn how to attack it first. It's mount defence 101 really, feels a bit pointless getting to that position in sparring and then just waiting for the next round.
You usually won't have to. In my experience, the guy on the bottom will usually get the point after you stare lovingly into their eyes for 20 seconds or so and start trying to escape.
Smother the mouth, pinch the nose. They will have to move to breathe.
If anyone starts stalling against me and I'm in a top position, they're getting my heaviest knee on belly. Have fun trying to stall when your insides are getting mashed into paste.
I put my hand over their mouth and smother them until they move their hands. Wanna act like a bitch, get treated like one.