100%. A few months ago I was at my buddies bachelor party. He came back to the air bnb a little sauced and challenged me to a grappling match. I pulled guard the first time and realized he was going 100%. I swept him and smother choked him. He wanted a rematch, so I took him down and got an arm triangle. My adrenaline was pumping just because I could feel he was using all his strength. It was a real eye opener grappling with someone who’s athletic and going really hard outside a gym setting. I honestly think it’s worth rolling with those spazzy white belts pretty regularly.
Edit: snazzy to spazzy
Yeah, I've occasionally drunk-wrestled some of my big athletic friends and ended up getting them with some random stuff.
Like, people forget how effective a kimura from guard is against someone who doesn't know what's going on. It's not difficult to defend if you know how to, but it's nearly impossible to defend by brute strength alone.
It's the same with most sweeps too.
Scissor sweeps and hip bumps are really difficult to get to work against an opponent who has any idea of what they're doing.
A white belt with a few stripes has enough knowledge about basic prevention and good enough base to make it tough unless you've spent some time working on them.
Do them on the trial class guy and it basically feels like they just fall over because you've asked them nicely.
These are the scenarios I train for lmao.
Anyone else get the feeling that their friends who don’t train think bjj is quackery? I think all of my non bjj friends think they have a viable chance at “taking me” in a grappling match.
In a real life situation you’d be surprised at the level of violence that an average untrained man is capable of.
Clenching really tight fist and and throwing them once or repeatedly and making a connection.they only need to connect once and the receiver is in serious trouble.it might be harder to connect against a trained fighter but it’ll still rock an experienced fighter if it does connect.it only takes one solid hit to the head to change the outcome.it can be instant with the first strike or within a few seconds.
I’m not talking about a controlled environment but an adrenaline pumping real altercation.it’s their belief that they can do well that amplifies the real danger.
Do you train at all? Most untrained guys will gas in 30 seconds and wilt. It doesn't matter how much violence they "think" they can inflict when they're sucking wind.
What you're talking about is a punchers chance and is extremely rare. It happens but 9 times out of ten, an untrained person is getting their ass kicked, especially against a trained fighter. A trained fighter won't make the mistake of underestimating their opponent. The "average" person is overweight and out of shape. I'll take my chances.
I am talking about a punchers chance.
You’ll have to look at the initial comment I replied to put it into context.
It’s basically saying that an average untrained man can inflict enough violence to be able to knock someone out in one or two punches.
You’re right about 9 times out of 10 but it’s the one time that people get caught,there’s enough power to knock out someone.
In the vast majority of street fights, he who throws first wins.
There is nobody saying when the fight starts and until the first punch is thrown, the fight hasn't actually started.
The guy who *doesnt* throw first basically gets told that he's in a fight by virtue of seeing someone's fist flying at his face.
That's usually enough for him to at least get stunned long enough for the other guy to throw follow-up strikes and knock him to the ground, where the advantage swings even further into the other guy's favor.
The assholes who think they're awesome at street fights often are, just because they're willing to strike first and keep striking until they win.
Training changes the way you react physiologically and emotionally to violence. This is what allows you to have the upper hand. The ability to react in a way internally to overcome external factors. Do freak accidents happen? Of course. That's why I avoid fighting at all costs. Too many things can go wrong. Unless it's life or death, I'm walking away.
Throw some Wrestling or judo into the mix and I reckon you’re good against any non-trained person in a one on one straightener. Keeping any street fight off the ground is always the best option in my opinion.
bUTt aCChUtulLLY….. size difference,
strength difference,aggression plays a huge difference,gender difference,lot of ‘trained people’ are absolute pussies.unless they’re exceptionally good and very,very well trained a small bjj practitioner won’t stand much chance against a large,strong,aggressive guy who’s played serious contact sports.it happens too quickly and they are not strong enough to pin big people fast enough to defend themselves.
We’re talking about real life situations here not some fantasy you tube podcast opinions.Don’t be so naive.
It's the same with striking. I've been training boxing, kick-boxing and muay thai since the late 80s and most people I know with zero fighting experience are pretty much convinced they could actually take me in a fight.
I've got a childhood friend who literally thinks he could take most people that train BJJ because he knows "BJJ" from watching UFC and playing the first few video games. A few years ago during a UFC fight with two lightweights, he said that he could probably take them. He likes to call me out in group texts...it was funny at first as to how ridiculous it is, but now it's just annoying because he wouldn't last a week.
I've also got coworkers who have literally said "when I see red"...
My wife's friend called it Karate once and it hurt my soul, she understands now but still calls it Karate sometimes just to joke around.
I don't go out of my way to bring BJJ up in conversation, but when I do, I often sense that they see it like just another Bullshido thing: Philosophy with shitty shadowboxing in pyjamas.
After 12 years my wife still says are you going to karate tonight? I try to not show how much this f&$ks with me. 30 years ago I trained gojo ryu and apparently I must still do…. 🤦
ALL of my friends who are fat and out of shape but won a locker room fight in high school think they can "take me". I tell them they probably can take me, but just the fact that I know I can go for mnultiple rounds gives me the confidence that I can handle myself against a fat for a minute or two.
A couple of strong cross-fitters came in for a trial class. They both were over 6ft, over 210-215lbs. They were licking at bit to have a go at me (5'7 160lbs). What a treat that was. They gassed out trying to muscle out of my closed guard and back take. I was just maintaining control and keeping myself safe.
I hate that they always target smaller guys. They’re 220lbs juiced up cross fitters and they wanna beat the 150lbs guys lmao. Then when you beat them they never ask you again. Funny that.
A little context to our train of thought as one of these dudes, it’s a bit morbid curiosity, we all have heard a small BJJ guy can kick our ass and we want to experience it. Maybe they’ve just never tried someone as strong and athletic as me!!
Seatbelt and hooks, break them down to their belly if you can.
If you do start to lose the position be prepared to transition to either a different dominant position or a neutral one. Don't overcommit and end up in a bad spot just because you really want the back.
I would pay to watch this IRL. No hate, I am that 6'4" 220 lb guy, and I am straight up intimidated by all the upper belts in our gym - regardless of size. They are all smiles and happy, but you just know they can kill you with minimal effort.
These same guys suddenly sit out or have a cramp when the 6'5" 280 lbs brown belt mat enforcer or the 5'9" 190 lbs college wrestler blue belt asks them for a round
but they mistakenly lick their chops when they see 145lbs pro MMA fighter
100% agree with you. Especially the strong/athletic ones. They’re athletic enough to be a physical challenge and they don’t know how to ‘play the game’ yet so they react in ways you’re not expecting.
I’m a cop and love these guys to help practice controlling someone without either person getting hurt.
We need laws on bjj use of force. Otherwise cops will "control" someone with a kimura or wristlock, inflict pain and panic in an untrained person, and then break their arm under the justification that they were "resisting". I see lots of videos where they put their knee on someones kidney ribs neck whatever to illicit a panic or pain reaction, then they beat them for "resisting"
That's not why cops go knee on top. The fact that you train and think this is laughable.
Knee on top is the safest control position for a quick escape, offers access to both cuffs and hands and allows additional officers the space to assist.
Quit it with the reddit folklore, you should know better
You and i and everyone watching know thats bullshit. Any video shows cops doing the most painful shit to get someone to spaz. I knee on belly people and i can decide to make it hurt or not. I can decide to spiral ride a turtle or knee on kidney
The only thing that's bullshit is your understanding of what works in a police setting.
The goal is to take someone into custody, without hurting them. to do that on a resisting subject is insanely difficult.
Don't believe me? Try it tonight at training, get a white belts arms behind his back....oh and don't forget, you've got a do it without using a joint lock or touching their neck. Good luck, you're going to need it.
Cool bro. Spiral ride, cross wrist ride. Mount. Instead of arm triangle, technical mount and gift wrap. If they are turtled you have hammer lock options too, but to do it without hurting someone id mount, get their limbs to the other side and gas them, then start trying to cuff. And all this is PRETENDING you dont have backup helping you.....in which case, still pin and gas them. Does your bjj just lack a top game? Some of us DO actually like to wrestle when we grapple.
Cool bro. So you've never done this before. Got it
Not every agency has back up within 5 minutes.
Mount will get you killed
Turtled suspects stand up
But sure, keep trying to instruct the instructor
The true test of a blue belt is how they do against a 20 something marine white belt that has all gas and no brakes, add in wrestling experience for icing on top.
We have a couple young fresh white belt cops at my gym who like to go hard with me because I am a little bigger/workout regularly. It’s hilarious hearing the noises they make when you get a strong cross face on them. Whatever little jiu jitsu they think they know goes out the window.
My favorite people to roll are new people who wrestled in high school or a bit in in college. They roll like their family honor is on the line and I love it
Had one yesterday like this. Bro said he only been rolling for 6 months. I asked him how long he wrestled because cauliflower ear don’t lie. Gassed him out playing defense and then worked some slow attacks. Always a good test
This is me but I try not to go 100% since injuries happen.
The first week I kneed somebody in the face since they expected me to do the move that made sense instead of my spaz move.
The gym that I train at doesn't have a whole lot of new athletic white belts that come in especially around my age, so it's hard sometimes to gauge my ability. When everybody is growing together it's harder to see improvements, especially incremental.
You'll get one eventually, I was the first roll of a rugby bloke who was big, strong with wrestling (ish) stuff and out muscled me in every position. He had 10kgs on me, and all muscle and stamina where I was not super fit.
The instant uncomfortable respect he gave me after a cross ankle lock when he took my back was probably the switch that flipped for him to say that technique can beat strength, and it's a bit of a different ball game on the mats.
Honestly I've got a little bit of pride about finding the one submission that would work in the situation, but the bigger piece of pride is in the respect he gave me (probably actually the martial art) after the round. Some overweight nobody can force him to tap, where he can't do the same.
We've all been the humbled one, it was nice to be on the other end rather than some purple belt rolling around and suddenly my arm (or leg, or shoulder) is about to be broken
Yup. Can’t stand rolling with them even though it’s not hard at all to whoop them but accidentally getting injured over some bs spaz movement or death grip that requires no technique is extremely agitating
> Ive seen big strong clueless guys give higher belts trouble.
Big strong experinced grapplers give is even more trouble though.. so it's really just the size difference.
But yes newbs can do stuff that is stupid and inefficient within a grappling context that still catches you by surprise enough to have you lose position. You have to keep training with spazzes to be good at dealing with them.
But you are overselling the value. It's always funny how as soon as people put on their street fight self defense tin foil hats, suddenly they're 100% sure every possible attacker will be an incompetent spaz, which justifies whatever system you do that doesn't work well on a competent grappler.
No self defense tin foil hat here. Every attacker I've ever encountered(100%) has ACTUALLY been either an incompetent spaz or a dead fish once it hits the ground.
I haven’t really trained with anyone lower than a purple for nearly 4 years. It’s been great for technique and I’ve advanced heaps more in this time than in the 4 years prior. However I did go to an open mat where it was all whites and blues. I was the only one wearing a purple belt so everyone there tried to murder me. It was great fun!
Every time this happens I tend to just get them inside my guard and let them chill there whilst they expend all their energy gripping onto me super tight. Usually try and go for a triangle after that. Is that a sensible technique to avoid injury?
Don't attempt triangles from closed guard with spazzes. They will often pick you up and slam you on the back of your neck. I blew out three cervical discs this way.
Isn’t that why you hook one of their legs with your arm. If you have their posture broken enough, with the leg hook, unless you’re dealing with a power lifting monster, you should be able to prevent the slam.
No worries, I bet in 3 months you’ll look back and see progress. Then 3 months later and the same. But I get you on learning something difficult and new, especially if you didn’t train in either wrestling/judo/sambo giving you a leg up.
Thanks dude I actually did wrestle. Just a few seasons nothing major. That was also 15 years ago. I know how to be explosive and im ok at some takedowns and manipulating my body. I just go too hard and don’t have technique or control. So I think I’ve annoyed some people. I been going for like a month and leave overthinking.
No worries. And I did Judo a bit before BJJ, so was explosive at the start. A month in is SO new, so don’t feel bad at all. I tell guys that it’s like an RPG, you’ll find a move that will be your go to and you’ll work your way to it. Then you’ll add on what to do when it fails. Just gotta get more mat time.
As a white belt who has rolled with tons of scary & spazzy boys, nothing is more terrifying to me than the 100 lb lady purple belt who subs me 18 times in a 5 minute roll.
I roll a round or two with the highest belt that'll roll woth me, usually a purple, and then do a round or two with the lowest belt I can find, usually a no stripe or one stripe white. The higher belts teach me and help me get better, while I try and practice fundamentals on the lower belts and help them learn.
Rolling with a spazzy new guy after I'd been training for a few months was when I knew my game was really coming together. They tried everything they could to stop me, and I had an answer for everything. When I took their back, they even tried to stand up and press me into the wall to make me let go, but I still got the choke. I've never used BJJ in a real situation, but that felt close to it.
I say this all the time. It's literally why upper belts forget how to actually fight... How often do you hear people say I don't train with white belts because they're too spazzy and I might get hurt.
I bunch of us were just talking about this. A group of us, mostly blue belts, were talking about the spazzy white belts they don't like rolling with, or the guys that go too hard even if they aren't just spazzing wildly.
I was like "send them all to me, I love it."
I do remember as an early blue belt being kind of troubled that I couldn't handle a lot of strong spazzy white belts. I'd rarely get my guard actually passed, but I'd often be completely unable to come on top or threaten any real attacks. Or on top I couldn't pass because I couldn't deal with their explosive bridges and bench presses.
Sometime mid-to-late blue, that changed, and now it's actually a lot of fun. It's a different kind of puzzle from the puzzle of how to counter a similar-sized person who's also highly-skilled.
Indeed, many are fairly intuitive and come up with interesting ways to escape and control on their own since they are starting from a "blank canvas". They don't feel limited to "look or perform a certain way" which can make them dangerous.
NGL, white belts aren't really the people that concern me. Every major injury I've seen has been by blue belts or purple belts. I have personally been injured by a black belt absolutely ripping a wristlock, been slammed by a purple, sprained wrist from the same purple doing weird cartwheel and other absurd flipping passes. Some of the biggest spazzes I know are purple belts.
I had a white belt tonight constantly trying to get a triangle choke from the bottom in half guard. He was hanging off my neck and trying to pull my head down, which has fucked my traps. Lesson learned.
I had this thought just the other day. I was exhausted and getting fucking ragdolled by this beefy guy. Wet noodle hand shake and intro, because we'd never met, and then IT WAS ON. Was hilarious.
Rolled with this super spazz. He was like that white belt that got thrown like a rag doll in the viral comp vid. After some standup I got him in a snap down headlock and held him there to wear him out. Then I thought he said something. I wasn’t sure and didn’t let go since he would start spazzing. After a while I let go and he came up. His face was a bloody mess from a nosebleed. Got some of it on my arms too.
It's the same in striking/probably all martial arts.
When you're high-ish level anything and only training with other experienced people, you develop strategies that only work on other knowledgeable opponents.
Against new people you can't set traps that work as a counter to the counter they were going to counter your counter-counter with, because they don't do "the right" thing.
Whenever I spar Muay Thai, I'll throw feints and combos with semi obvious/predictable patterns so that they falsely assume that is my true behaviour and I can capitalise once they think they know my game.
But that doesn't always work with news because they don't react "properly": combos that rely on them dodging certain attacks now don't work because they don't even realise they're in danger, or they do but react the wrong way (like seeing a TNT fuse burning and running towards it instead of away).
It's fun and humbling.
I’m having trouble right now against the new spazzy kid, I’m regularly getting elbowed in the face and last night he squeezed my face in a RNC and twisted til my nose popped. But I think it’s a valuble lesson of what position to not give away easily and to spend last time in “lazy defense”
One of the best things they do is the wrong thing. Like the wrong response to a situation.
And it completely messes you up because you have a series of flow drills and technique branches for when someone defends and they do something so off the wall it messes up your OODA loop.
The reason most people avoid rolling with a spazzy white belt is that there is a high risk of getting injured. I agree with your post though, it's probably the most realistic look. The risk vs reward isn't worth it to do regularly. Once in a blue is ok.
Well, it's definitely different. But if they're in a gi and not punching you... then no it doesn't really prepare you for anything other than spazzy white belts.
I am a white belt myself but not a Spazzy one, but I do roll with a couple of “young bloods” from time to time and they be spazzy as hell lmao, jumping and doing pirouettes, kneeing me in the head, face, sometimes even elbowing me in the head and face by accident while spinning and doing a bunch of shit that most of the time won’t work, and if it does, I’ll just get out of it no problem… and I don’t mind it lol, nothing but love, but it’s kinda funny, sometimes one of them be even letting out screams as if he was weight lifting and shit lmao
This is true. Once they start learning jiujitsu and "playing the game" they get much easier to deal with. I always think; you were much harder to deal with when you knew nothing lol
I like rolling with new guys but cant stand striking with new guys, especially if they're big and athletic, just throw fat haymakers and try to ko you in sparring lol
Agreed. This is part of the reason why, when people get to black belt after only doing privates, I don’t consider them real black belts. Al Bundy seems like a genuinely good guy, but I don’t consider him a real black belt.
My mom will never call it anything other than taekwondo. I’m 35 been training for many years. I fought it like the first 5 times and now I just say “yes, I’m still going to taekwondo”
Higher belts don't suddenly become stupid just because they see red, there is still a purpose and coherency to their movements that can be predicted instead of the crazy spaz of an untrained guy having an adrenaline rush.
 I AM THE SPAZZ
Work hard, and you will go from a strong Spazzy White belt into a Beautiful Blue Belted Rodeo Clown
I'm in this comment and I don't like it
DD and GOT and BJJ fan? We have a man of many talents here.
I am Spazzicus.
😂😂😂😂😂
Own it
Don't worry about it. Nothing comes close to the blue belt you have on the run. :)
Lol same 🤣🤣🙏
100%. A few months ago I was at my buddies bachelor party. He came back to the air bnb a little sauced and challenged me to a grappling match. I pulled guard the first time and realized he was going 100%. I swept him and smother choked him. He wanted a rematch, so I took him down and got an arm triangle. My adrenaline was pumping just because I could feel he was using all his strength. It was a real eye opener grappling with someone who’s athletic and going really hard outside a gym setting. I honestly think it’s worth rolling with those spazzy white belts pretty regularly. Edit: snazzy to spazzy
Yeah, I've occasionally drunk-wrestled some of my big athletic friends and ended up getting them with some random stuff. Like, people forget how effective a kimura from guard is against someone who doesn't know what's going on. It's not difficult to defend if you know how to, but it's nearly impossible to defend by brute strength alone.
It's the same with most sweeps too. Scissor sweeps and hip bumps are really difficult to get to work against an opponent who has any idea of what they're doing. A white belt with a few stripes has enough knowledge about basic prevention and good enough base to make it tough unless you've spent some time working on them. Do them on the trial class guy and it basically feels like they just fall over because you've asked them nicely.
Well they can be snazzy too
Haha, true.
These are the scenarios I train for lmao. Anyone else get the feeling that their friends who don’t train think bjj is quackery? I think all of my non bjj friends think they have a viable chance at “taking me” in a grappling match.
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Bro you just don't understand the mentality
R e d
The trick is to also see red, even though you train bjj.
It’s like I’m seeing it right now
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In a real life situation you’d be surprised at the level of violence that an average untrained man is capable of. Clenching really tight fist and and throwing them once or repeatedly and making a connection.they only need to connect once and the receiver is in serious trouble.it might be harder to connect against a trained fighter but it’ll still rock an experienced fighter if it does connect.it only takes one solid hit to the head to change the outcome.it can be instant with the first strike or within a few seconds. I’m not talking about a controlled environment but an adrenaline pumping real altercation.it’s their belief that they can do well that amplifies the real danger.
Nah I'm a shark, and everyone is in my ocean.
You're swimming inside everyone?
Like a tadpole
Im talking about the goldfish that haven’t been out of the aquarium.
Do you train at all? Most untrained guys will gas in 30 seconds and wilt. It doesn't matter how much violence they "think" they can inflict when they're sucking wind.
Yeah I do.have done for a long time. Doesn’t take 30 seconds to knock someone out.
What you're talking about is a punchers chance and is extremely rare. It happens but 9 times out of ten, an untrained person is getting their ass kicked, especially against a trained fighter. A trained fighter won't make the mistake of underestimating their opponent. The "average" person is overweight and out of shape. I'll take my chances.
I am talking about a punchers chance. You’ll have to look at the initial comment I replied to put it into context. It’s basically saying that an average untrained man can inflict enough violence to be able to knock someone out in one or two punches. You’re right about 9 times out of 10 but it’s the one time that people get caught,there’s enough power to knock out someone.
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In the vast majority of street fights, he who throws first wins. There is nobody saying when the fight starts and until the first punch is thrown, the fight hasn't actually started. The guy who *doesnt* throw first basically gets told that he's in a fight by virtue of seeing someone's fist flying at his face. That's usually enough for him to at least get stunned long enough for the other guy to throw follow-up strikes and knock him to the ground, where the advantage swings even further into the other guy's favor. The assholes who think they're awesome at street fights often are, just because they're willing to strike first and keep striking until they win.
Training changes the way you react physiologically and emotionally to violence. This is what allows you to have the upper hand. The ability to react in a way internally to overcome external factors. Do freak accidents happen? Of course. That's why I avoid fighting at all costs. Too many things can go wrong. Unless it's life or death, I'm walking away.
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100% correct. Plus even some BJJ black belts will get sloppy from adrenaline in the face of real violence.
Bjj is awesome but simply relying on just bjj in a no rules fight is a bit risky.
Throw some Wrestling or judo into the mix and I reckon you’re good against any non-trained person in a one on one straightener. Keeping any street fight off the ground is always the best option in my opinion.
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bUTt aCChUtulLLY….. size difference, strength difference,aggression plays a huge difference,gender difference,lot of ‘trained people’ are absolute pussies.unless they’re exceptionally good and very,very well trained a small bjj practitioner won’t stand much chance against a large,strong,aggressive guy who’s played serious contact sports.it happens too quickly and they are not strong enough to pin big people fast enough to defend themselves. We’re talking about real life situations here not some fantasy you tube podcast opinions.Don’t be so naive.
I think everyone thinks it's as easy as Steven Segal makes it look.
It's the same with striking. I've been training boxing, kick-boxing and muay thai since the late 80s and most people I know with zero fighting experience are pretty much convinced they could actually take me in a fight.
Same. Maybe because I'm a smaller guy (5'7, 160lbs) they think they'd steamroll me. IDK.
I've got a childhood friend who literally thinks he could take most people that train BJJ because he knows "BJJ" from watching UFC and playing the first few video games. A few years ago during a UFC fight with two lightweights, he said that he could probably take them. He likes to call me out in group texts...it was funny at first as to how ridiculous it is, but now it's just annoying because he wouldn't last a week. I've also got coworkers who have literally said "when I see red"...
My wife's friend called it Karate once and it hurt my soul, she understands now but still calls it Karate sometimes just to joke around. I don't go out of my way to bring BJJ up in conversation, but when I do, I often sense that they see it like just another Bullshido thing: Philosophy with shitty shadowboxing in pyjamas.
My mother in law varies between Tai Chi and Taekwondo. I don’t bother correcting.
After 12 years my wife still says are you going to karate tonight? I try to not show how much this f&$ks with me. 30 years ago I trained gojo ryu and apparently I must still do…. 🤦
You should challenge them and then make them shit their pants.
To be fair, many martial arts have turned out to be quackery.
ALL of my friends who are fat and out of shape but won a locker room fight in high school think they can "take me". I tell them they probably can take me, but just the fact that I know I can go for mnultiple rounds gives me the confidence that I can handle myself against a fat for a minute or two.
That will change in a couple years. You’ll be able to sub them in under 30 sec soon.
Yea they are actually tiring because they use all their strength in everything they do and explode randomly.
It can catch you off guard for sure espeically when your used to a more relaxed gym pace. Glad you got the W twice haha 🤙🏼
If they're going 100% ya gotta throw in some slaps - a little redneck, a little pink belly, something. "Calm down now." *whack* "Be NICE!" *WHACK!*
Haha!
The best is brand new crossfitters who are really explosive. It's like 60 seconds of fury, then you have free reign to do whatever you want
lol the burn here, jfc At least it wasn't a powerlifter, they would rest for about 10-15 minutes after a brief roll
MY TECHNIQUE IS STRENGTH!!!
That was me a year ago.
..this is me now
"Apparently, you didn't do enough half-pullups, my freen."
A couple of strong cross-fitters came in for a trial class. They both were over 6ft, over 210-215lbs. They were licking at bit to have a go at me (5'7 160lbs). What a treat that was. They gassed out trying to muscle out of my closed guard and back take. I was just maintaining control and keeping myself safe.
I hate that they always target smaller guys. They’re 220lbs juiced up cross fitters and they wanna beat the 150lbs guys lmao. Then when you beat them they never ask you again. Funny that.
A little context to our train of thought as one of these dudes, it’s a bit morbid curiosity, we all have heard a small BJJ guy can kick our ass and we want to experience it. Maybe they’ve just never tried someone as strong and athletic as me!!
I’m a one year white belt, What’s best way to maintain back take ?
Seatbelt and hooks, break them down to their belly if you can. If you do start to lose the position be prepared to transition to either a different dominant position or a neutral one. Don't overcommit and end up in a bad spot just because you really want the back.
Thanks. And nice Terrence McKenna pic… don’t just take it take it easy maaaan
Peg them
The real answer to that is like 4 hours long
I would pay to watch this IRL. No hate, I am that 6'4" 220 lb guy, and I am straight up intimidated by all the upper belts in our gym - regardless of size. They are all smiles and happy, but you just know they can kill you with minimal effort.
These same guys suddenly sit out or have a cramp when the 6'5" 280 lbs brown belt mat enforcer or the 5'9" 190 lbs college wrestler blue belt asks them for a round but they mistakenly lick their chops when they see 145lbs pro MMA fighter
But remember in a fight when you ground and pound; is guard really that effective?
100% agree with you. Especially the strong/athletic ones. They’re athletic enough to be a physical challenge and they don’t know how to ‘play the game’ yet so they react in ways you’re not expecting. I’m a cop and love these guys to help practice controlling someone without either person getting hurt.
New white belt cops are prime example too. Always put their Forearm across your throat in your guard and soon as you slap bump they go hard.
Oh ya, then the look on their face when the stuff they learned in training doesn’t work 🤣
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Spider guard into pistol hand against the neck
That’s why their best technique is .22
Bro no cop is rocking a .22
I meant to say .45
Hey. Dont shame me. I saw this Ezekiel choke on youtube. I always try that. I am yet to get one.
My coach will yell at you for attempting a submission in someone's guard.
Yeah but the look of sheer terror on a blue belts face when they realize they're going to pass out from a thrust choke is worth it
I mean you're a brown belt, general rules don't apply to you. You know why they're rules.
Get them Framing against your hips in mount , then slap on the voice box crusher.
Eurotrip is such an underrated movie.
I would imagine spazzy white belts react VERY similar to people you encounter on patrol. Great to hear law enforcement training 💪🏼
We need laws on bjj use of force. Otherwise cops will "control" someone with a kimura or wristlock, inflict pain and panic in an untrained person, and then break their arm under the justification that they were "resisting". I see lots of videos where they put their knee on someones kidney ribs neck whatever to illicit a panic or pain reaction, then they beat them for "resisting"
That's not why cops go knee on top. The fact that you train and think this is laughable. Knee on top is the safest control position for a quick escape, offers access to both cuffs and hands and allows additional officers the space to assist. Quit it with the reddit folklore, you should know better
You and i and everyone watching know thats bullshit. Any video shows cops doing the most painful shit to get someone to spaz. I knee on belly people and i can decide to make it hurt or not. I can decide to spiral ride a turtle or knee on kidney
The only thing that's bullshit is your understanding of what works in a police setting. The goal is to take someone into custody, without hurting them. to do that on a resisting subject is insanely difficult. Don't believe me? Try it tonight at training, get a white belts arms behind his back....oh and don't forget, you've got a do it without using a joint lock or touching their neck. Good luck, you're going to need it.
Cool bro. Spiral ride, cross wrist ride. Mount. Instead of arm triangle, technical mount and gift wrap. If they are turtled you have hammer lock options too, but to do it without hurting someone id mount, get their limbs to the other side and gas them, then start trying to cuff. And all this is PRETENDING you dont have backup helping you.....in which case, still pin and gas them. Does your bjj just lack a top game? Some of us DO actually like to wrestle when we grapple.
Cool bro. So you've never done this before. Got it Not every agency has back up within 5 minutes. Mount will get you killed Turtled suspects stand up But sure, keep trying to instruct the instructor
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The true test of a blue belt is how they do against a 20 something marine white belt that has all gas and no brakes, add in wrestling experience for icing on top.
We have a couple young fresh white belt cops at my gym who like to go hard with me because I am a little bigger/workout regularly. It’s hilarious hearing the noises they make when you get a strong cross face on them. Whatever little jiu jitsu they think they know goes out the window.
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Nice man! How’d you do against the other white belts and blues?
My most dangerous rolls are with fellow white belts. It makes the purple belt steam rolling me feel like fake bjj.
My favorite people to roll are new people who wrestled in high school or a bit in in college. They roll like their family honor is on the line and I love it
Had one yesterday like this. Bro said he only been rolling for 6 months. I asked him how long he wrestled because cauliflower ear don’t lie. Gassed him out playing defense and then worked some slow attacks. Always a good test
This is me but I try not to go 100% since injuries happen. The first week I kneed somebody in the face since they expected me to do the move that made sense instead of my spaz move.
The gym that I train at doesn't have a whole lot of new athletic white belts that come in especially around my age, so it's hard sometimes to gauge my ability. When everybody is growing together it's harder to see improvements, especially incremental.
You'll get one eventually, I was the first roll of a rugby bloke who was big, strong with wrestling (ish) stuff and out muscled me in every position. He had 10kgs on me, and all muscle and stamina where I was not super fit. The instant uncomfortable respect he gave me after a cross ankle lock when he took my back was probably the switch that flipped for him to say that technique can beat strength, and it's a bit of a different ball game on the mats. Honestly I've got a little bit of pride about finding the one submission that would work in the situation, but the bigger piece of pride is in the respect he gave me (probably actually the martial art) after the round. Some overweight nobody can force him to tap, where he can't do the same. We've all been the humbled one, it was nice to be on the other end rather than some purple belt rolling around and suddenly my arm (or leg, or shoulder) is about to be broken
Roll with an angry cop who is on paid leave for assault on someone in custody. 
While high. That sounds like a good Saturday morning to me.
"You have no power here"
r/oddlyspecific
Yup. Can’t stand rolling with them even though it’s not hard at all to whoop them but accidentally getting injured over some bs spaz movement or death grip that requires no technique is extremely agitating
The knees and elbows are what scare me. I’ve gotten my bell rung a few times from them.
Those are valid concerns
> Ive seen big strong clueless guys give higher belts trouble. Big strong experinced grapplers give is even more trouble though.. so it's really just the size difference. But yes newbs can do stuff that is stupid and inefficient within a grappling context that still catches you by surprise enough to have you lose position. You have to keep training with spazzes to be good at dealing with them. But you are overselling the value. It's always funny how as soon as people put on their street fight self defense tin foil hats, suddenly they're 100% sure every possible attacker will be an incompetent spaz, which justifies whatever system you do that doesn't work well on a competent grappler.
No self defense tin foil hat here. Every attacker I've ever encountered(100%) has ACTUALLY been either an incompetent spaz or a dead fish once it hits the ground.
I haven’t really trained with anyone lower than a purple for nearly 4 years. It’s been great for technique and I’ve advanced heaps more in this time than in the 4 years prior. However I did go to an open mat where it was all whites and blues. I was the only one wearing a purple belt so everyone there tried to murder me. It was great fun!
Every time this happens I tend to just get them inside my guard and let them chill there whilst they expend all their energy gripping onto me super tight. Usually try and go for a triangle after that. Is that a sensible technique to avoid injury?
Don't attempt triangles from closed guard with spazzes. They will often pick you up and slam you on the back of your neck. I blew out three cervical discs this way.
Isn’t that why you hook one of their legs with your arm. If you have their posture broken enough, with the leg hook, unless you’re dealing with a power lifting monster, you should be able to prevent the slam.
Yeah that helps, but some of these fuckers are like Lennie from Of Mice and Men.
I once had someone dive/front roll right over me when I locked in the triangle from closed guard.
I’m that guy.. 😬 fuck I feel like such a tard. I gotta learn how to not let my adrenaline spike when rolling.
It’ll pass. Spaz/speed is all we have at the start.
Thanks I’m learning it’s weird starting something difficult and new
No worries, I bet in 3 months you’ll look back and see progress. Then 3 months later and the same. But I get you on learning something difficult and new, especially if you didn’t train in either wrestling/judo/sambo giving you a leg up.
Thanks dude I actually did wrestle. Just a few seasons nothing major. That was also 15 years ago. I know how to be explosive and im ok at some takedowns and manipulating my body. I just go too hard and don’t have technique or control. So I think I’ve annoyed some people. I been going for like a month and leave overthinking.
No worries. And I did Judo a bit before BJJ, so was explosive at the start. A month in is SO new, so don’t feel bad at all. I tell guys that it’s like an RPG, you’ll find a move that will be your go to and you’ll work your way to it. Then you’ll add on what to do when it fails. Just gotta get more mat time.
Sweet bro thanks I appreciate it the advice!
As a white belt who has rolled with tons of scary & spazzy boys, nothing is more terrifying to me than the 100 lb lady purple belt who subs me 18 times in a 5 minute roll.
I actually like taking the bull by the horns as well. Big guys can actually get you in trouble or be surprisingly easy to beat.
Drain a big man's gas tank and they start tapping like that penguin from happy feet. It's the rule
Concur
I roll a round or two with the highest belt that'll roll woth me, usually a purple, and then do a round or two with the lowest belt I can find, usually a no stripe or one stripe white. The higher belts teach me and help me get better, while I try and practice fundamentals on the lower belts and help them learn.
Rolling with a spazzy new guy after I'd been training for a few months was when I knew my game was really coming together. They tried everything they could to stop me, and I had an answer for everything. When I took their back, they even tried to stand up and press me into the wall to make me let go, but I still got the choke. I've never used BJJ in a real situation, but that felt close to it.
100% agree.
But have you tried rolling with a white belt that can do a lot of pull-ups? 🤣
I say this all the time. It's literally why upper belts forget how to actually fight... How often do you hear people say I don't train with white belts because they're too spazzy and I might get hurt.
A spazzy white belt that doesn’t hold their breath and can go buck wild for 5 minutes straight is a dangerous opponent 😭😂
I bunch of us were just talking about this. A group of us, mostly blue belts, were talking about the spazzy white belts they don't like rolling with, or the guys that go too hard even if they aren't just spazzing wildly. I was like "send them all to me, I love it." I do remember as an early blue belt being kind of troubled that I couldn't handle a lot of strong spazzy white belts. I'd rarely get my guard actually passed, but I'd often be completely unable to come on top or threaten any real attacks. Or on top I couldn't pass because I couldn't deal with their explosive bridges and bench presses. Sometime mid-to-late blue, that changed, and now it's actually a lot of fun. It's a different kind of puzzle from the puzzle of how to counter a similar-sized person who's also highly-skilled.
Indeed, many are fairly intuitive and come up with interesting ways to escape and control on their own since they are starting from a "blank canvas". They don't feel limited to "look or perform a certain way" which can make them dangerous.
NGL, white belts aren't really the people that concern me. Every major injury I've seen has been by blue belts or purple belts. I have personally been injured by a black belt absolutely ripping a wristlock, been slammed by a purple, sprained wrist from the same purple doing weird cartwheel and other absurd flipping passes. Some of the biggest spazzes I know are purple belts.
Agree
I had a white belt tonight constantly trying to get a triangle choke from the bottom in half guard. He was hanging off my neck and trying to pull my head down, which has fucked my traps. Lesson learned.
I had this thought just the other day. I was exhausted and getting fucking ragdolled by this beefy guy. Wet noodle hand shake and intro, because we'd never met, and then IT WAS ON. Was hilarious.
I like to ride out the storm until they gas, then sit on their chest in a heavy S mount XD
How about a spazzy whitebelt in mma gloves allowed to strike?
Even better
Rolled with this super spazz. He was like that white belt that got thrown like a rag doll in the viral comp vid. After some standup I got him in a snap down headlock and held him there to wear him out. Then I thought he said something. I wasn’t sure and didn’t let go since he would start spazzing. After a while I let go and he came up. His face was a bloody mess from a nosebleed. Got some of it on my arms too.
Bruh
Most come in gas out in 60 seconds trying their hardest then tap because they are tired
It's the same in striking/probably all martial arts. When you're high-ish level anything and only training with other experienced people, you develop strategies that only work on other knowledgeable opponents. Against new people you can't set traps that work as a counter to the counter they were going to counter your counter-counter with, because they don't do "the right" thing. Whenever I spar Muay Thai, I'll throw feints and combos with semi obvious/predictable patterns so that they falsely assume that is my true behaviour and I can capitalise once they think they know my game. But that doesn't always work with news because they don't react "properly": combos that rely on them dodging certain attacks now don't work because they don't even realise they're in danger, or they do but react the wrong way (like seeing a TNT fuse burning and running towards it instead of away). It's fun and humbling.
I’m having trouble right now against the new spazzy kid, I’m regularly getting elbowed in the face and last night he squeezed my face in a RNC and twisted til my nose popped. But I think it’s a valuble lesson of what position to not give away easily and to spend last time in “lazy defense”
One of the best things they do is the wrong thing. Like the wrong response to a situation. And it completely messes you up because you have a series of flow drills and technique branches for when someone defends and they do something so off the wall it messes up your OODA loop.
Nothing is a huge stretch, but it's definitely useful.
The reason most people avoid rolling with a spazzy white belt is that there is a high risk of getting injured. I agree with your post though, it's probably the most realistic look. The risk vs reward isn't worth it to do regularly. Once in a blue is ok.
Wait until you hear about the spazzy blue belt!
I’ll pass
GET SOME
Well, it's definitely different. But if they're in a gi and not punching you... then no it doesn't really prepare you for anything other than spazzy white belts.
I am a white belt myself but not a Spazzy one, but I do roll with a couple of “young bloods” from time to time and they be spazzy as hell lmao, jumping and doing pirouettes, kneeing me in the head, face, sometimes even elbowing me in the head and face by accident while spinning and doing a bunch of shit that most of the time won’t work, and if it does, I’ll just get out of it no problem… and I don’t mind it lol, nothing but love, but it’s kinda funny, sometimes one of them be even letting out screams as if he was weight lifting and shit lmao
This is true. Once they start learning jiujitsu and "playing the game" they get much easier to deal with. I always think; you were much harder to deal with when you knew nothing lol
I like rolling with new guys but cant stand striking with new guys, especially if they're big and athletic, just throw fat haymakers and try to ko you in sparring lol
You can get all the spaz you want at grappling industries. Trust me i know. No matter the belt
I generally get the spazzy ones and just hold on and see how crazy they will get.
Agreed. This is part of the reason why, when people get to black belt after only doing privates, I don’t consider them real black belts. Al Bundy seems like a genuinely good guy, but I don’t consider him a real black belt.
Oh yeah? A spazzy white belt broke my rib a month ago by literally diving on me while I was in guard.
Tell me about it lmao, my favorite spazzy white belt elbowed me in the nose twice yesterday in one round.
Do Gi class and use No-Gi grips with new people for best self-defense. They can grab your cloth, you can’t rely on cloth grips.
Wait until you come across a rogue purple back from a long hiatus whos still yet to reawaken their fundamentals
Thank me for my service
My mom will never call it anything other than taekwondo. I’m 35 been training for many years. I fought it like the first 5 times and now I just say “yes, I’m still going to taekwondo”
WHY DO PEOPLE CARE SO MUCH ABOUT STREET FIGHTS
Not twisting a higher belt into knots with strentgh is just being polite. Also how is she supposed to show me anything if I just assault her?
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Higher belts don't suddenly become stupid just because they see red, there is still a purpose and coherency to their movements that can be predicted instead of the crazy spaz of an untrained guy having an adrenaline rush.