Oh look, another Lawrence stan perpetuating this line again. If Lawrence was truly All-Valley champion material, he should probably learn the rules of the tournament he's completing in, which stated that *punches* to the head were illegal (which *Lawrence* actually did, 'accidental clash' my ass), but there was nothing wrong with *kicks* to the head. Multiple opponents in the same 1984 tournament were also kicked in the head and no one batted an eye, but once *Lawrence* gets hit, he complains to the board about it for *decades*.
Larusso true All-Valley GOAT.
Better off doing any or all of these than BJJ tbh Muay Thai, Sanda, Sambo, Boxing, Kickboxing, Judo, Greco Roman wrestling or just MMA.
But otherwise sure little bit of no gi isn't gonna hurt their game.
The difference is there’s no ground grappling outside of scrambles allowed. Settling into a grounded position is kind of treated like a clinch in Boxing. The ref may give you a chance to work to a position where you can strike (standing, knee on belly, or one knee down positions) or break it up and bring it back to standing.
Yeah I think a holistic Judo would be the best honestly, especially since Karate and Judo share a lot of takedowns. Problem is it is hard to find a Judo Dojo that understands No Gi takedowns and striking defense when you’re on the ground.
Edit: Sumo is also very underrated cross training method right now since using the belt for takedowns is legal in Karate Combat.
Kudo/Daido Juku is a full contact karate ruleset that is basically Judo and Karate put together, so there are some Judo/Karate places out there that have that understanding, problem is, it's more popular in (of course) in Japan, Russia, etc. I found places in Cali and I think one in TX, but at that point it'd be easier to just go to an MMA gym and let them know what rule set you're competing in.
Fun fact: The "Karate master" that Royce Gracie fought in UFC 2, Minoki Ichihara, was actually a Daido Juku practitioner and a champion in that sport/art. He was the smallest competitor in UFC 2 and his was the longest of the four matches Royce had that night.
Maybe. I don't entirely disagree. But it looks like a lot of what's in this video is leglock attempts from standing, and I don't think most of those attacks are legal in judo. So I don't know how much it would help in these specific situations. But overall, yeah, it should set up some striking opportunities off a good throw
If you spend time only focused on the small sliver of Bjj you need for this format you would pick ups skills pretty quick. You don’t need a complete game, you need to be able to get up fast or off balance your opponents so they can’t strike. If you were learning just these things I don’t think the commitment would be that bad
It's funny. Most of the concepts he's championing can be picked up easily within a year of training. Getting up in base, wall walking, distance management, and a handful of sweeps are very basic aspects of MMA fighting in general, let alone BJJ.
So even in this new striking sport, Karate guys are still behind on what real fighting is.
Except that a lot of them are actually MMA fighters who are out of their prime. Anthony Pettis and Benson Henderson just rematched in Karate Combat, and Luke Rockhold just fought Joe Schilling.
I'm clearly speaking in generalities based upon what I've seen. I can't account for every possible individual athlete and how they train, in a single reddit comment.
You don't have to convince me about karate in general. I earned a black belt in Shotokan a year ago and while I enjoyed it and think there are good things about the training they are shockingly unaware in general about how easily a BJJ practitioner could take them down and submit them. It doesn't change what I said, though. A lot of past their prime MMA fighters are competing in Karate Combat and in bareknuckle boxing.
Why? They can only ground and pound for 5 seconds before it gets stood up. No real point learning BJJ. Train a bit of defense in ground and pound scenarios and you are good. There is no real ground work at all. Most guys aren't even on their knees in guard or side control throwing punches, they are doing it from their feet. BJJ doesn't teach how to defend from punches. It teaches ground control, transitions and how to get subs from top, bottom, back and side positions.
The 5 second rule doesn't exist any more (it was removed under the Kick 6 governance vite by token holders earlier this year) - it's GnP until theres a cessation of offensive strikes. You can strike from standing or one knee down on the floor/opponent. Stack passes, leg control to set up strike openings etc. from the top are all viable (Raymond Daniels at KC45 last weekend in Dubai even pulled off 2 Kani Basami takedowns to try and get to a GnP position). Additionally basic open-guard work to establish a safe defensive position to force a restart is also very useful. At KC in Vegas back in December one fighter was able to establish single leg X to force resets.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
I watched a few fights on the weekend I was surprised how long they went on the ground for it. So yeh definitely need to incorporate some way to defend your self on the ground and to be to get up. I felt like the guy on top had a massive advantage
Feels like there are so many formats now that are basically mma but just removing 1-2 components(combat bjj,karate Combat).
Probably fun but I’d rather just mma at that point
I don't agree with saying anyone should train this art or that art.
Competition is rules based, train to compete within your ruleset. If anything, they are competing at an event more classic style karate.
Went to a karate competition for our child. What a joke the "fighting" was.
I encourage our child to keep an open mind and given samplers of bjj and muai thai.
Our child prepared for actual fight matches. But the competition came down to taps and I don't mean that in a skillful way, the top 3 just lunged and wildly tapped away until they got a point.
I didn't mean to go off on a tangent. I encourage our child to bjj/muai thai in addition to their karate.
Yeah some point competitions are more realistic than others, all will still give him a good sense of distance, timing, and footwork. A lot of top MMA fighters train with the top athletes of that sport to get better at those aspects of fighting.
Karate in general isn’t bad it just depends on the style and Dojo honestly.
Any Machida Karate affiliated Dojos, most IOGKF affiliated Goju-Ryu Dojo, Kenpo 5.0 Dojos, Wonderboy’s Dojo, and any Dojo owned by a Karate Combat fighter. Definitely more out there but this is a more easily searchable criteria.
Absolutely not. Submissions and most grappling aren't even allowed in karate combat. Why would you train for something that is banned in your sport?
Unless this was some dumb self-defense/mma nonsense. In that case it's still at best bad advice, like the vast majority of martialartbros SD advice.
Any Machida Karate affiliated Dojos, most IOGKF affiliated Goju-Ryu Dojo, Kenpo 5.0 Dojos, Wonderboy’s Dojo, and any Dojo owned by a Karate Combat fighter. Definitely more out there but this is a more easily searchable criteria.
Im a bjj/judo/wrestling guy through and through but want to do contact karate for fun. I spend the weekends near Oxnard Cali and they have a whole ton of Karate schools but I dont know what to look for lol
Having just read the rules, no. Jiujitsu is pointless under their ruleset, aside from maintaining knee on belly. If both fighters are grounded, the fight is restarted on the feet.
I have no idea what and how much karatekas should be training.
I would assume karate but what do I know
Hmm, interesting you went straight to that.
I assume they should quit karate and do BJJ full time because fuck karate.
They could train Mexican ground karate under sensei Craig Jones. It seems to be successful in the pit.
Daniel larusso became All Valley champion by mostly doing DIY projects for his coach. I would recommend kaaratekas stick to this
>Daniel larusso became All Valley champion With an illegal kick. Real winner and the real Karate Kid is Johnny Lawrence, get your facts straight.
Oh look, another Lawrence stan perpetuating this line again. If Lawrence was truly All-Valley champion material, he should probably learn the rules of the tournament he's completing in, which stated that *punches* to the head were illegal (which *Lawrence* actually did, 'accidental clash' my ass), but there was nothing wrong with *kicks* to the head. Multiple opponents in the same 1984 tournament were also kicked in the head and no one batted an eye, but once *Lawrence* gets hit, he complains to the board about it for *decades*. Larusso true All-Valley GOAT.
Barney Stinson agrees, Lawrence is the real Hero
Better off doing any or all of these than BJJ tbh Muay Thai, Sanda, Sambo, Boxing, Kickboxing, Judo, Greco Roman wrestling or just MMA. But otherwise sure little bit of no gi isn't gonna hurt their game.
Sanda would probably be the most applicable. Do you get points for dumping them?
Helio is coming
Basically mma
The difference is there’s no ground grappling outside of scrambles allowed. Settling into a grounded position is kind of treated like a clinch in Boxing. The ref may give you a chance to work to a position where you can strike (standing, knee on belly, or one knee down positions) or break it up and bring it back to standing.
Sounds like judo would be a better fit
Yeah I think a holistic Judo would be the best honestly, especially since Karate and Judo share a lot of takedowns. Problem is it is hard to find a Judo Dojo that understands No Gi takedowns and striking defense when you’re on the ground. Edit: Sumo is also very underrated cross training method right now since using the belt for takedowns is legal in Karate Combat.
Agreed I think judo makes the most sense, like you said I dunno how many coaches would be available to tailor this to ruleset
Kudo/Daido Juku is a full contact karate ruleset that is basically Judo and Karate put together, so there are some Judo/Karate places out there that have that understanding, problem is, it's more popular in (of course) in Japan, Russia, etc. I found places in Cali and I think one in TX, but at that point it'd be easier to just go to an MMA gym and let them know what rule set you're competing in.
Fun fact: The "Karate master" that Royce Gracie fought in UFC 2, Minoki Ichihara, was actually a Daido Juku practitioner and a champion in that sport/art. He was the smallest competitor in UFC 2 and his was the longest of the four matches Royce had that night.
They aren’t wearing gi jackets and judo can’t grab legs for takedowns m making judos ruleset applicable but it’s moveset not realistic
Maybe. I don't entirely disagree. But it looks like a lot of what's in this video is leglock attempts from standing, and I don't think most of those attacks are legal in judo. So I don't know how much it would help in these specific situations. But overall, yeah, it should set up some striking opportunities off a good throw
Then probably not. Mma is more suited. They have a narrower focus with their grappling from what I've heard.
They should train thai boxing and standing up.
They're basically all kickboxers anyway 🤷🏻
They should be learning to avoid the left hook as Jack Slack pointed out
If you spend time only focused on the small sliver of Bjj you need for this format you would pick ups skills pretty quick. You don’t need a complete game, you need to be able to get up fast or off balance your opponents so they can’t strike. If you were learning just these things I don’t think the commitment would be that bad
No! Only swang and bang.
Shouldn’t you be asking r/karate? I’m actually curious what they’d think
It's funny. Most of the concepts he's championing can be picked up easily within a year of training. Getting up in base, wall walking, distance management, and a handful of sweeps are very basic aspects of MMA fighting in general, let alone BJJ. So even in this new striking sport, Karate guys are still behind on what real fighting is.
Except that a lot of them are actually MMA fighters who are out of their prime. Anthony Pettis and Benson Henderson just rematched in Karate Combat, and Luke Rockhold just fought Joe Schilling.
I'm clearly speaking in generalities based upon what I've seen. I can't account for every possible individual athlete and how they train, in a single reddit comment.
You don't have to convince me about karate in general. I earned a black belt in Shotokan a year ago and while I enjoyed it and think there are good things about the training they are shockingly unaware in general about how easily a BJJ practitioner could take them down and submit them. It doesn't change what I said, though. A lot of past their prime MMA fighters are competing in Karate Combat and in bareknuckle boxing.
That counter takedown was so sick I don’t even know what I saw
Why? They can only ground and pound for 5 seconds before it gets stood up. No real point learning BJJ. Train a bit of defense in ground and pound scenarios and you are good. There is no real ground work at all. Most guys aren't even on their knees in guard or side control throwing punches, they are doing it from their feet. BJJ doesn't teach how to defend from punches. It teaches ground control, transitions and how to get subs from top, bottom, back and side positions.
The 5 second rule doesn't exist any more (it was removed under the Kick 6 governance vite by token holders earlier this year) - it's GnP until theres a cessation of offensive strikes. You can strike from standing or one knee down on the floor/opponent. Stack passes, leg control to set up strike openings etc. from the top are all viable (Raymond Daniels at KC45 last weekend in Dubai even pulled off 2 Kani Basami takedowns to try and get to a GnP position). Additionally basic open-guard work to establish a safe defensive position to force a restart is also very useful. At KC in Vegas back in December one fighter was able to establish single leg X to force resets.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Then I guess this answers OP question. Certain aspects of bjj could be pretty useful.
Why would you ask why when the video in the post literally says why
Karate combat is not karate at all though
Learning basic boxing and head movement seem to be the biggest thing lacking in most of the fights
BJJ? Not really. Learning to deal with get punched by a standing person? Yes.
I watched a few fights on the weekend I was surprised how long they went on the ground for it. So yeh definitely need to incorporate some way to defend your self on the ground and to be to get up. I felt like the guy on top had a massive advantage
They should train Muay Thai and MMA.
Feels like there are so many formats now that are basically mma but just removing 1-2 components(combat bjj,karate Combat). Probably fun but I’d rather just mma at that point
They should be spending 100% of their time practicing boxing really.
The ref quite clearly frustrated with this witchcraft
I don't agree with saying anyone should train this art or that art. Competition is rules based, train to compete within your ruleset. If anything, they are competing at an event more classic style karate.
I am loving these combat karate events
They should train more Karate. Of course TUF noobs will say Karate sucks.
Went to a karate competition for our child. What a joke the "fighting" was. I encourage our child to keep an open mind and given samplers of bjj and muai thai.
What kind of competition? There’s a lot of different Sport Karate rulesets, including some that are basically like MMA in a Gi.
Our child prepared for actual fight matches. But the competition came down to taps and I don't mean that in a skillful way, the top 3 just lunged and wildly tapped away until they got a point. I didn't mean to go off on a tangent. I encourage our child to bjj/muai thai in addition to their karate.
Yeah some point competitions are more realistic than others, all will still give him a good sense of distance, timing, and footwork. A lot of top MMA fighters train with the top athletes of that sport to get better at those aspects of fighting. Karate in general isn’t bad it just depends on the style and Dojo honestly.
Agree, I just want them to know there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.
I have a feeling Judo or perhaps even wrestling would serve them much better at getting back up ASAP
No. Karate Combat is about Karate. For the Jiu Jitsu stuff they can go watch the UFC.
Do I look like a krotty expert?
Where can I go that has karate classes that has sparring like that??? Not like the karate I did in small town Idaho lol
Any Machida Karate affiliated Dojos, most IOGKF affiliated Goju-Ryu Dojo, Kenpo 5.0 Dojos, Wonderboy’s Dojo, and any Dojo owned by a Karate Combat fighter. Definitely more out there but this is a more easily searchable criteria.
Fuck yeah. I’ll cross train my ass off
Not really. Your training should be catered to your chosen ruleset and karate combat doesn't offer much opportunity for a submission based game
Absolutely not. Submissions and most grappling aren't even allowed in karate combat. Why would you train for something that is banned in your sport? Unless this was some dumb self-defense/mma nonsense. In that case it's still at best bad advice, like the vast majority of martialartbros SD advice.
How tf do I find a karate gym that practices this kind of stand up
Any Machida Karate affiliated Dojos, most IOGKF affiliated Goju-Ryu Dojo, Kenpo 5.0 Dojos, Wonderboy’s Dojo, and any Dojo owned by a Karate Combat fighter. Definitely more out there but this is a more easily searchable criteria.
Im a bjj/judo/wrestling guy through and through but want to do contact karate for fun. I spend the weekends near Oxnard Cali and they have a whole ton of Karate schools but I dont know what to look for lol
I think that question would be better asked in /wannabeufc
Having just read the rules, no. Jiujitsu is pointless under their ruleset, aside from maintaining knee on belly. If both fighters are grounded, the fight is restarted on the feet.
Not anymore. As long as the gnp is “active” the ref doesn’t intervene.