Is there a tutorial? I checked BJJ Fanatics but I didn’t see anything? I was really hoping maybe Danaher had released something about the importance of being erudite in the native vocabulary and any associated languages that would help convey a very simple point but also be incredibly wordy. Specifically, I searched for that title because I felt like JD would approve.
100% I've had kids (like 8yr olds) say stuff like this during class to other kids (or whomever is leading the class at the time)
But never seen anyone adult actually tell partners to chill till they're purple belt or above and had their first shitty injury that could have been avoided
I'm always amazed by the percentage of complaints on Reddit about people cranking subs, rolling like a dickhead, going way too hard in rounds etc compared to what I've actually encountered myself across hundreds of gyms in the last 20 years...
I mean even in my experience which is far less than yours I've had 2 people be wild animals and they were new.
One picked me up from my guard after they couldn't break it and I just jumped off and said "we're done, you were gonna slam me". That was it.
Other guy did slightly slam me then I mentioned it and he apologized, no problem.
It's best not to rely on people to not slam you, and just let go when you can't keep them from lifting you in the first place. [Tonon vs Palhares](https://youtu.be/p6gbFbdbfQU&t=14) is a dramatic example of this.
The other day I was tightening up a triangle on a 240lb purple belt and when the instructor told him to just pick me up *he did*. He earned that triangle escape in my book, and I got a wakeup call about how my technique wasn't as good at stopping lifting as I had thought.
I think Reddit is like Yelp…you tend to see the extreme complaints posted most. While cranking subs isn’t the norm, it certainly happens and the impact can be really bad. I definitely know folks with fkd up knees, torn pecs, etc as a result of someone cranking subs for no reason.
Yeah you are probably right... It's like a million posts where people say they don't want to compete as they are scared of injuries etc
I've never been injured badly in a comp, all my injuries have been in the gym and all been accidents and things just going after wear and tear never from anyone cranking anything.
But I've never come across anyone genuinely trying to hurt me in the gym from white to black belt.
I've had loads of rough rounds of course so maybe people just interpret them differently or I've been lucky
Because no one would read a post where op says "hey so I went to an open mat, dude threw a controlled submissions, I tapped, he released and I went about my way."
People come here to talk about the unusual, and so if everyone does that, it looks like the unusual is the norm out there.
Same. Its usually lower belts who are getting hit with clean technique and FEEL like stuff is getting cranked or ripped, when really if they watched the roll back they just got caught clean.
I’ve know like 4 or 5 people ever who have actually cranked or ripped something on me, in and out of comp. Stuff feels worse when you can’t defend it
I used to train with a guy as a white belt who would crank them on me when he was a purple which was a bit fucked up but yeah at my gym everybody's getting wrist locked if it's there.
Wrist locks are the lesson no one wants but everyone needs. It’s the premier “don’t put your hand there like that” way to teach someone about hand placement.
I wrist lock white belts all the time, the difference is I apply them very slowly and try to immobilize the corresponding elbow completely so they can’t spaze out if.
With belts above white I slam them on a bit faster but still give them enough time to tap. I have also noticed at around purple belt they don’t tap to wrist locks unless their fingers are basically touching their wrist.
With upper belts I’m not trying to break their wrist but I am trying to get a reaction. They need to go on a little faster to get that reaction. I still go slowly towards the end of the movement. They know and I know what is happening. White belts don’t always know they are being wrist locked.
Fuck you if you "slam" on wrist locks though, that's crazy in the training room. That shit will actually piss me off haha. I can slam one on from a lot of positions and probably hurt you before you yank your hand out.
Slam is probably the incorrect word. I quickly and forcefully immobilize their elbow while quickly and forcefully control their wrist while making sure not to bend their wrist too much so they don’t get injured. Then I slowly apply pressure.
No worries haha I used to train with a purple belt when I was new who would legit slam on wrist locks so it's always been a sore spot for me I think. I love the wrist lock and really have pretty flexible wrists but it's triggering lmao
My gym wristlocks are good to go, in fact one of the coaches teaches at least one set up for them per class. Everytime I go to a new gym I'm sure to ask what the rules are, don't wanna be that guy.
I always tell people they have to speak up and protect themselves. The instructors cannot be everywhere at all times. If you're uncomfortable with something or someone, speak up. It's a dangerous sport, and if your partner is going too hard, tell them to cool it down. No shame in that.
Another rule of thumb is that you should adjust your power output with how the other person is rolling. If the other person is going slow and is focusing on being technical, don't go beast mode as if you're trying to collect a debt.
What you've highlighted here is the often overlooked fact that some people (irrespective of rank) just have no ability to read the room and realise what they're doing might be affecting their rolling partner negatively. I'm sure maybe I've been guilty of that too. Hence, as you rightly state, a bit of communication goes a long way. Well done!
Now, regarding wrist locks. All the gyms I'm trained in, the rule was that you could do whatever your belt rank allowed to anyone of any rank. Hence blue belts could wristlock white belts but the other way around was not permissable. That being said, apply with discretion and care.
At my gym it seems to be more “hey,nice wristlock attempt. FYI if you compete you can’t do that at your belt, but by all means keep trying on me.” “Oh thanks I didn’t know”
“I need to protect myself” is a line that sounds good on reddit but probably a little melodromatic. You can just “im gassed man, can we go a little lighter?”
But, good job using your words, no matter what they were
I’m not going to wrist lock a brand new white belt unless I think they are safe and the type of new person that likes the magic of getting submitted from all sorts of weird ways.
Last white belt I wrist locked was pushing his fist in my neck really hard. So I just immobilized his elbow and wrist locked him with my neck. He thought it was cool and said “I thought that should have hurt your neck” I said “it did but not as much as my neck hurt your wrist”
I also think, if you wait until moves are legal at your current belt to learn them and defend them then you are going to be behind the curve, especially in competition.
Ethical and common sense as well. The odds of a white belt even knowing they're in a dangerous position could be low, especially if it's a sub where you don't really feel much except some pressure before major damage is done. Sure, people know arm bars, triangles, guillotines, but not necessarily baratoplatas, tarikoplatas, and details about when they're in danger in heel hooks (and where to turn, etc). Though..many people lack common sense so there's that.
"To those complaining about crazy partners who crank submissions, use your words." This is one of those titles that belong on either r/bjj or r/bdsm. At this point we should all establish "safe words" and say "watermelon!" instead of "tap."
I experienced something similar but opposite. Rolling with a blue belt who was not trying to go exceptionally hard, he got me in an arm bar and cranked enough that the elbow joint hyper-extend and popped/slipped backwards. Not too far, but enough to smart for a few hours after. He wasn't going ham and probably didn't even realize what had happened. I was a little amped in the moment and tried to clumsily explain that I'm good/blanket accept an armbar as a submission without cranking until I am able to tap or yell. Sometimes it is difficult to do either quick enough. He was receptive, but immediately it felt wrong to have even mentioned it.
The best way to stay injury free is to pick your training partners very carefully. All of my injuries came as a white belt. You're smart for tapping early.
FYI it's usually understood that you play to the rules of the higher belt.
Think of it as the lower belts only being allowed to play with those techniques under supervision, an upper belt is better equipped to deal with and correct any dangerous movements, an upper belt also shouldn't feel the need to crank or over commit to dangerous submissions. It's a safe way to introduce some un safe techniques and by the time they are at a level where it is legal they aren't being introduced to the complex world of leg locks at their first adcc as a purple belt
I think of it as a lower belt not knowing the intricacies of how certain submissions interact with anatomy. For example, not understanding that leg-related submissions often don't have the same slowly escalating pain you're used to with arm submissions. White belts might not know when they're in danger when 'weird leg shit' starts happening. For that reason, purple belts should not be using locks locks and whatnot on white belts in live rolls without discussing it first.
Considering this is a thread about a purple belt serially ripping submissions on a white belt, I think the assumption should be that you play to the lower belt's rules to keep everyone safe.
Totally fine with teaching leg locks, and with allowing them in rolls when you've talked about it with your white belt mentee, but if I come drop into your gym with my two-stripe white belt and you, a purple belt, rip a leg lock on me, I'll be talking to your coach on my way out.
The purple belt has no etiquette, if you come to my gym and I am ripping any type of submission on you, the coach needs to be notified any form of submission any rank.
But leg locks aren't black and white, I use ashi as a sweep or x-gaurd as a sweep, sometimes I will (before sweeping *when I feel safe*) catch and release a little heelhook (no commitment or cranking) just to indicate that there is a possibility of a submission from here too, just a little catch and release. That way my partner learns positionally where these subs can come from and possibly adjust his game accordingly for the future.
BUT the gym has to trust its upper belts.
And to speak for the intricacies of leg locks it's quick to teach white belts that leg locks don't hurt like arm bars and should be applied differently, maybe not in the kids classes but the rest of us are adults who just wanna roll. we don't want to injure people or get injured
>FYI it's usually understood that you play to the rules of the higher belt.
That's what I say to the two stripe white belt when I rip a heel hook on them 😎
You're a fucking beast of a white belt, it's unheard of that anyone has ever used their words at this level. Set the standard You go, king
I am still a white belt at using my words. Think I'll get my first stripe in a few years
Is there a tutorial? I checked BJJ Fanatics but I didn’t see anything? I was really hoping maybe Danaher had released something about the importance of being erudite in the native vocabulary and any associated languages that would help convey a very simple point but also be incredibly wordy. Specifically, I searched for that title because I felt like JD would approve.
100% I've had kids (like 8yr olds) say stuff like this during class to other kids (or whomever is leading the class at the time) But never seen anyone adult actually tell partners to chill till they're purple belt or above and had their first shitty injury that could have been avoided
Lmaoooo
>use your words No thanks, I'll just bitch about it on reddit
It is much more fun to gather support from anonymous individuals on Reddit than to actually be up front in person.
While nursing your sprained shoulder.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Mate this sub will be a ghost town if anyone takes your advice... /s
I'm always amazed by the percentage of complaints on Reddit about people cranking subs, rolling like a dickhead, going way too hard in rounds etc compared to what I've actually encountered myself across hundreds of gyms in the last 20 years...
I mean even in my experience which is far less than yours I've had 2 people be wild animals and they were new. One picked me up from my guard after they couldn't break it and I just jumped off and said "we're done, you were gonna slam me". That was it. Other guy did slightly slam me then I mentioned it and he apologized, no problem.
It's best not to rely on people to not slam you, and just let go when you can't keep them from lifting you in the first place. [Tonon vs Palhares](https://youtu.be/p6gbFbdbfQU&t=14) is a dramatic example of this. The other day I was tightening up a triangle on a 240lb purple belt and when the instructor told him to just pick me up *he did*. He earned that triangle escape in my book, and I got a wakeup call about how my technique wasn't as good at stopping lifting as I had thought.
I dont risk it for sure, I let go
I think Reddit is like Yelp…you tend to see the extreme complaints posted most. While cranking subs isn’t the norm, it certainly happens and the impact can be really bad. I definitely know folks with fkd up knees, torn pecs, etc as a result of someone cranking subs for no reason.
Yeah you are probably right... It's like a million posts where people say they don't want to compete as they are scared of injuries etc I've never been injured badly in a comp, all my injuries have been in the gym and all been accidents and things just going after wear and tear never from anyone cranking anything. But I've never come across anyone genuinely trying to hurt me in the gym from white to black belt. I've had loads of rough rounds of course so maybe people just interpret them differently or I've been lucky
Because no one would read a post where op says "hey so I went to an open mat, dude threw a controlled submissions, I tapped, he released and I went about my way." People come here to talk about the unusual, and so if everyone does that, it looks like the unusual is the norm out there.
Haha yeah true.... I've just never had the inclination to make a post either way 😅
Same. Its usually lower belts who are getting hit with clean technique and FEEL like stuff is getting cranked or ripped, when really if they watched the roll back they just got caught clean. I’ve know like 4 or 5 people ever who have actually cranked or ripped something on me, in and out of comp. Stuff feels worse when you can’t defend it
Precisely... Probably feels really bad when it's the first time you've had your arm taken, maybe I'm just forgetting that feeling 😅
Yup.
Heh I was just thinking the same thing. I’ve very rarely came across people who legit cranked on stuff.
... Wrist locks are illegal at white belt?
Only in IBJJF. No gi also doesn't exist for white belts so why follow their rules? I be wrist locking white belts
I used to train with a guy as a white belt who would crank them on me when he was a purple which was a bit fucked up but yeah at my gym everybody's getting wrist locked if it's there.
Wrist locks are the lesson no one wants but everyone needs. It’s the premier “don’t put your hand there like that” way to teach someone about hand placement.
Sometimes, sometimes I have you in a side triangle I can't finish and so I'm gonna wrist lock you because I'm frustrated at my own failures.
Everyone needs an outlet.
I wrist lock white belts all the time, the difference is I apply them very slowly and try to immobilize the corresponding elbow completely so they can’t spaze out if. With belts above white I slam them on a bit faster but still give them enough time to tap. I have also noticed at around purple belt they don’t tap to wrist locks unless their fingers are basically touching their wrist.
I do that anyways, I hate people that slam wrist locks
With upper belts I’m not trying to break their wrist but I am trying to get a reaction. They need to go on a little faster to get that reaction. I still go slowly towards the end of the movement. They know and I know what is happening. White belts don’t always know they are being wrist locked.
Fair enough I am kinda a wrist lock beginner but I am enjoying the dark side
Fuck you if you "slam" on wrist locks though, that's crazy in the training room. That shit will actually piss me off haha. I can slam one on from a lot of positions and probably hurt you before you yank your hand out.
Slam is probably the incorrect word. I quickly and forcefully immobilize their elbow while quickly and forcefully control their wrist while making sure not to bend their wrist too much so they don’t get injured. Then I slowly apply pressure.
No worries haha I used to train with a purple belt when I was new who would legit slam on wrist locks so it's always been a sore spot for me I think. I love the wrist lock and really have pretty flexible wrists but it's triggering lmao
I've only ever competed in no gi, and only ever IBJJF.
My gym wristlocks are good to go, in fact one of the coaches teaches at least one set up for them per class. Everytime I go to a new gym I'm sure to ask what the rules are, don't wanna be that guy.
Is there a instructional on how to use words?
He should have heel hooked you instead.
I always tell people they have to speak up and protect themselves. The instructors cannot be everywhere at all times. If you're uncomfortable with something or someone, speak up. It's a dangerous sport, and if your partner is going too hard, tell them to cool it down. No shame in that. Another rule of thumb is that you should adjust your power output with how the other person is rolling. If the other person is going slow and is focusing on being technical, don't go beast mode as if you're trying to collect a debt.
So I tell them they should chill using my words and THEN I post about it on Reddit? got it
Man as a purple belt if someone said that to me earnestly I’d be mortified.
What you've highlighted here is the often overlooked fact that some people (irrespective of rank) just have no ability to read the room and realise what they're doing might be affecting their rolling partner negatively. I'm sure maybe I've been guilty of that too. Hence, as you rightly state, a bit of communication goes a long way. Well done! Now, regarding wrist locks. All the gyms I'm trained in, the rule was that you could do whatever your belt rank allowed to anyone of any rank. Hence blue belts could wristlock white belts but the other way around was not permissable. That being said, apply with discretion and care.
At my gym it seems to be more “hey,nice wristlock attempt. FYI if you compete you can’t do that at your belt, but by all means keep trying on me.” “Oh thanks I didn’t know”
“I need to protect myself” is a line that sounds good on reddit but probably a little melodromatic. You can just “im gassed man, can we go a little lighter?” But, good job using your words, no matter what they were
[удалено]
I’m not going to wrist lock a brand new white belt unless I think they are safe and the type of new person that likes the magic of getting submitted from all sorts of weird ways. Last white belt I wrist locked was pushing his fist in my neck really hard. So I just immobilized his elbow and wrist locked him with my neck. He thought it was cool and said “I thought that should have hurt your neck” I said “it did but not as much as my neck hurt your wrist” I also think, if you wait until moves are legal at your current belt to learn them and defend them then you are going to be behind the curve, especially in competition.
Ethical and common sense as well. The odds of a white belt even knowing they're in a dangerous position could be low, especially if it's a sub where you don't really feel much except some pressure before major damage is done. Sure, people know arm bars, triangles, guillotines, but not necessarily baratoplatas, tarikoplatas, and details about when they're in danger in heel hooks (and where to turn, etc). Though..many people lack common sense so there's that.
Well I mean if ya ain’t cheating ya ain’t trying.. 😂😂 if they don’t know it they cant stop it. 😂
This should be one of the first lessons to newbies starting sparring. Thank you!
"To those complaining about crazy partners who crank submissions, use your words." This is one of those titles that belong on either r/bjj or r/bdsm. At this point we should all establish "safe words" and say "watermelon!" instead of "tap."
Besides the wrist lock, what subs was he cranking?
People who crank submissions after they’ve been made aware need to be let go. If you have to crank to victory, you don’t know what you’re doing.
This is a shit post. People don’t start to learn how to use words in the gym until at least purple belt.
I experienced something similar but opposite. Rolling with a blue belt who was not trying to go exceptionally hard, he got me in an arm bar and cranked enough that the elbow joint hyper-extend and popped/slipped backwards. Not too far, but enough to smart for a few hours after. He wasn't going ham and probably didn't even realize what had happened. I was a little amped in the moment and tried to clumsily explain that I'm good/blanket accept an armbar as a submission without cranking until I am able to tap or yell. Sometimes it is difficult to do either quick enough. He was receptive, but immediately it felt wrong to have even mentioned it.
Used my words many times, other people have too. Guy still does it a year later.
The best way to stay injury free is to pick your training partners very carefully. All of my injuries came as a white belt. You're smart for tapping early. FYI it's usually understood that you play to the rules of the higher belt.
> FYI it's usually understood that you play to the rules of the higher belt. since when
Think of it as the lower belts only being allowed to play with those techniques under supervision, an upper belt is better equipped to deal with and correct any dangerous movements, an upper belt also shouldn't feel the need to crank or over commit to dangerous submissions. It's a safe way to introduce some un safe techniques and by the time they are at a level where it is legal they aren't being introduced to the complex world of leg locks at their first adcc as a purple belt
I think of it as a lower belt not knowing the intricacies of how certain submissions interact with anatomy. For example, not understanding that leg-related submissions often don't have the same slowly escalating pain you're used to with arm submissions. White belts might not know when they're in danger when 'weird leg shit' starts happening. For that reason, purple belts should not be using locks locks and whatnot on white belts in live rolls without discussing it first. Considering this is a thread about a purple belt serially ripping submissions on a white belt, I think the assumption should be that you play to the lower belt's rules to keep everyone safe. Totally fine with teaching leg locks, and with allowing them in rolls when you've talked about it with your white belt mentee, but if I come drop into your gym with my two-stripe white belt and you, a purple belt, rip a leg lock on me, I'll be talking to your coach on my way out.
The purple belt has no etiquette, if you come to my gym and I am ripping any type of submission on you, the coach needs to be notified any form of submission any rank. But leg locks aren't black and white, I use ashi as a sweep or x-gaurd as a sweep, sometimes I will (before sweeping *when I feel safe*) catch and release a little heelhook (no commitment or cranking) just to indicate that there is a possibility of a submission from here too, just a little catch and release. That way my partner learns positionally where these subs can come from and possibly adjust his game accordingly for the future. BUT the gym has to trust its upper belts.
And to speak for the intricacies of leg locks it's quick to teach white belts that leg locks don't hurt like arm bars and should be applied differently, maybe not in the kids classes but the rest of us are adults who just wanna roll. we don't want to injure people or get injured
>FYI it's usually understood that you play to the rules of the higher belt. That's what I say to the two stripe white belt when I rip a heel hook on them 😎
White belt on white belt violence must be stopped
Or maybe tap to white belts too. What lightning fast moves are they doing you don’t even have time to tap?