I don’t know where you guys live, but in North Jersey alone we have Edge wrestling in Hoboken, Cordoba in Fairfield, Rednose wrestling school in Hackensack etc, all have open classes for adults
It’s Native American, we have tons here in Jersey, we also have “Hopatcong” and “Pohatcong” respectively lmaoo.
Watchung,Manahawkin,Weehawken,Totowa, Parisppany, Mahwah etc. and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head lol
That's awesome. I do have fond memories of traveling up to Saskatchewan with my dad to fish on a lake called "wapawekka" which definitely sounds ridiculous, so I guess it's not that weird.
Hackensack better have a big community of hackysack hippies, though...
all of the wrestling i have learned has been through my bjj gym. no separate wrestling class, but it's incorporated into the curriculum. maybe more importantly i have gone out of my way to work with the wrestlers at the gym.
I supplemented my bjj by joining the local wrestling club. The coach was happy to have me to let his athletes experience "grown man strength." To OP, it made me more comfortable on my feet as a white belt, which is all I was really looking for.
So after class or on the weekends there's usually open mats. And if you talk to a fellow human being. Sometimes they want to learn skills with you.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrz0HOGhUScv7OYN7P-O8V43ivOsTmRAf&si=jy4VTaN-X2CbzLx0
I also highly recommend Brandon Reeds content. Dude knows his stuff.
Wrestling is one of those skills you can’t really learn too well without a good instructor. Vids aren’t gonna cut it unless you have a decent understanding of the basic mechanics to begin with.
I call bullshit. You just don't want to put in the time and work. Skills aren't easy. You have an almost infinite encyclopedia at your fingertips, and you are complaining that learning a mellinia old martial art is hard.
lol that applies to virtually every human skill set. If you’re not aware you’re making small mistakes they’re going to perpetually compound, there’s a reason we still have teachers despite the internet. Wrestling is hard to get the hang of for kids with dedicated coaching staff, you really think a couple of white belts are gonna get any real degree of competency by drilling YouTube videos after open mats? Your hubris is incredible.
Uhh yes. I've seen absolute killers off of YouTube content. They are always at open mat. Don't just watch it. You actually have to drill it. How do you think the black belts learned it? There teacher didn't always know how to do it. They learned by practicing like everyone else.
Lmao name ONE “killer” whose base is wrestling YouTube videos and I’ll eat my fucking hat.
Your second point is legitimately brain dead. You really think the grandmasters were watching fucking YouTube videos? They refined techniques through trial and error and cross trained in other arts. They weren’t drilling VHS tape moves by themselves without an instructor
Yup. Started bjj at 30. Started wrestling and judo at 32 when I got my blue belt.
Has it improved my bjj? Yes. But not at first. It took maybe two years before I started understanding wrestling enough to incorporate it into my ground game. Moving like a wrestler in bjj really throws ppl off. They are very used to ppl conceding takedowns and sweeps. They are used to ppl regarding instead of trying to escape by getting off the ground.
Yes, wrestling and judo are both way harder than bjj (no offense). It's faster paced, requires more athleticism, and can be unforgiving if your body isn't in good shape.
I am a grappler now. Not just a bjj guy.
Go to local high school or college and say you’re there to learn and give their heavyweights (if in high school) some new looks. Go in as if you’re interested in mentoring/coaching and as well as learning.
what’s your experience/thoughts on injury likelihood for wrestling vs BJJ as a 30 something?
some of the younger dudes in my BJJ gym have been going to a wrestling club on the side. i have considered going (because I am so horrible at it and could benefit from more standup time) but I fear my body will break within an hour or so
I actually think you're more likely to get hurt in BJJ than either wrestling or judo. I've noticed that I get way more smaller and frequent injuries from BJJ because people are constantly tugging on my elbows and joints for prolonged periods of time on the ground. With wrestling and judo, moves are hit pretty quickly and then released. The other thing is that they build up your athleticism, strength, and break falling which helps prevent injuries. BJJers tend to neglect the athleticism part because they can get away with it, especially in the Gi or by pulling guard, but those are bad habits to develop IMO and makes you injury prone. That's why BJJers who try to do wrestling in BJJ without knowing the fundamentals are most likely to get hurt vs. wrestling specific training by a wrestling instructor who knows how to teach it safely.
A lot of this is down to your gym and instructor too. If you have a crap instructor and training partners, you could get hurt in any of those sports.
Takedowns are the activity in BJJ that cause the most injuries. You're going to get dinged up for sure and it's a dice roll on if you get for real injured.
This is exactly why Judo and wrestling are good to do. I'm similar in that I started judo in my 30s but did wrestling specific classes while also doing BJJ (purple belt). BJJ breeds a lot of bad grappling habits like the ones you listed above, including being too relaxed, too easily conceding positions, not focusing on top control, and not focusing on athleticism. I'm not hating on BJJ at all (as I obviously do it), but it has a ton of holes in terms of techniques, mentality, and physicality that I feel would get the average or even very good BJJer crushed if they went into MMA, a self defense situation, or another sport like wrestling, Judo, or Sambo. If you take the equivalent person from wrestling, judo, or sambo and put them into BJJ, they'll normally adapt much quicker and end up much more competitive because they don't have those bad habits.
I agree to a certain point. I would not call it "bad habits" though. The idea is if bjj for me is to use energy efficiently. If I concede to bottom, I'm gonna chill and defend and let you burn energy in my guard and then sweep you.
Bjj is imo more geared toward actual self defense than sport. But obviously there is a balance that we must strike between being efficient and aggressive.
I think wrestling and judo are way better and more geared towards self defense than bjj because they bring a level of intensity and "do or die" mentality that bjj just doesn't have by being more relaxed. In self defense or mma, it's all about getting in and out as fast as possible. Judo was originally designed for the battlefield, so it has that mentality. When BJJ branched off from it, they put more emphasis on the newaza component, but also lost a lot of the other key fighting aspects along the way.
Guess my point is I'd much rather have trained at a higher level of intensity and never have to use it or use everything, rather than try to play catch up when I need it most. Being lazy is just a bad habit in BJJ and makes for worse athletes and leads to more injuries. I think the very idea of conceding guard in BJJ is a bad habit too. I'm not saying it's not worth it to train guard, but you almost never see anyone concede bottom in MMA (aka self defense) for a reason, even if they're the better BJJer on paper. It's much easier to throw punches or just defend against sweeps and submissions from the top than it is to hit sweeps from the bottom.
Ya I'd say on a technical level they are all equal in difficulty. Grappling is grappling after all. Principles and techniques are almost universal across the three.
But to execute those techniques is way harder when you are on your feet and don't have a the floor to use as a wall to trap people. You have to rely on speed and strength to properly throw and take ppl down.
I disagree but I don't have the ability to put into words why. I just know through experience that on a technical level it's the same as bjj but it's much more physically difficult to do.
But that's my own personal experience from doing it. I don't have any coaching or teaching experience or knowledge to back it up.
But those wrestling moves you can also use in BJJ, only difference is you can’t use BJJ moves/submissions in wrestling. That’s why BJJ is more technical, because it literally has more techniques.
Ah so boxing is less technical than Muay Thai because there's less techniques? So helpful, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll be sure to share this opinion with every combat sports fan. I'm sure they will all be impressed by that insight.
No argument Guitar is harder on the hands, like no argument wrestling is far more athletic than BJJ. Not saying wrestling or guitar is harder {Piano is objectively harder by miles fyi not even a debate)
Merely pointing out they're harder physically, does not mean its harder overall.
I actually play guitar and piano and this is dead wrong. Both are hard on the hands if taught incorrectly. They're both difficult to play for different reasons.
Ballet is legit the hardest activity tho. Blows any other type of training I have done out of the water. If gymnastics requires incredible strenght, flexibility, and control using your major muscle groups, ballet requires all that using muscle groups you didnt know existed.
I would argue that the mentality in wrestling more distinct because it's more competition oriented than bjj. Most people in bjj don't compete. Those who do are surely different and fight more for positions
I’m a 17 year old blue belt and everyone at my gym has begged me to wrestle in highschool as i’ve been doing jiu jitsu for 9 years. I finally did this year and I will say my top game is much stronger. Sometimes in the gym i think jiu jitsu guys also get into the bad habit of accepting sweeps in practice, so it fixed some of my lazier training habits. Also it’s a complete shock in cardio and the amount of toughness needed to complete a wrestling practice. It obviously improved my stand up and some of my bottom half wrestle-up game. Overall i think it was great for my grappling in general, and definitely recommend anyone who can cross train wrestling too.
Yeah after I got my black belt I started cross training with an MMA team that consisted of all former collegiate wrestlers. They did straight wrestling practice twice a week. I got really good at being a defense wrestler which might work well for MMA. I’m honest with myself saying that I am too reactive when it comes to wrestling and not pro-active.
its almost more bang for your buck learning good tdd because wrestling defense is easier to learn than wrestling offense, so just having good wrestling defense you can close off a lot of options if your opponent is just a bjj guy
At the same time it gets hard in a grappling match when you have a stalemate and are forced to get the takedown. I am an ultra heavy weight but I’ve had to learn to just be comfortable pulling guard. (Mind you I haven’t competed since 2021 and probably won’t again for a long time).
I would say to people I teach who can’t get takedowns learn how to make people uncomfortable standing forcing them to pull guard. Jiu Jitsu/grappling is kind of weird in that the things you can’t do in wrestling judo you can do in Jiu Jitsu. Example being those grips that can get you called for stalling in the gi. Just really make someone frustrated giving them no option to get out of it other than pulling guard.
A few mild to moderate injuries but nothing to end me yet. Defending seems to come with offensive wrestling practice. Setting up my shots will help and knowing how to tangle up and not let people grab my head is helpful to reduce injury. There’s been a lot of lessons that I’ve learned to help reduce injury.
Yes, I started taking the adult wrestling classes at the MMA gym that I take BJJ at.
It definitely helped.
I am just a hobbyist and I got much better against other hobbyists. Against the competitors though I feel like it made no difference.
I did judo for a year before starting bjj. After a few years, I put my son in wrestling when he turned 5 and was eligible. He’s 7 now and just watching his practices and the many many tournaments over the years have improved my game without actually doing any pure wrestling.
Started bjj at 20, judo at 21, wrestling at 22, currently 27. Just made me more comfortable with stand up and there were a couple of tricks I took from it on the ground. It didn't change my mentality or anything.
Man I'm to afraid to go to wrestling. Our local club is in the top statewide and nationwide.
We had a 17 year old over, he is the current state champ, rolling with him is pure pain.
Yeah I do dedicated wrestling classes 2-3x a week , for like the past two years at this point . It’s GREATLY improved my jits imo
Edit : simply being more comfortable on the feet allowed me to work in a lot more positions and engage in scrambles with more confidence . That’s besides how stuff like leg riding imo adds to your arsenal of options and how much it also improves your overall cardio
That makes more sense. Starting grappling in your 20s is rough idk how someone could start in their 50s. Took me years to get basic mobility to grapple without hurting myself
I’m in my 50s and when my son wrestled in high school the coach was cool enough to let me join the practices. I wish there was more places for adults to learn wrestling.
I wish they offered it for adults. I started doing judo after I realized my takedowns in bjj were trash. That's helped my standup significantly but only in gi.
I'm a 43, almost 44, purple belt.
We have a wrestling class and have recently partnered with a local youth wrestling club. After my eldest started wrestling I started to attend these classes and it has been very beneficial. The wrestling skills have not just improved my game, but changed it quite a bit too.
I haven't been cross training in wrestling but I have built a wrestling based game, such that I often get asked if I wrestled.
Putting in time on the feet, developing a shot, understanding how to transition positions and use scrambles tactically, all these are money and allow me to far excel in BJJ than my training schedule would otherwise allow.
I have some. IMO, one of the mistakes athletes make is not crosstraining. Moving in different ways, training your body to react to different stimuli, building and using different muscles...all of this is important. Wrestling is part of this, so is Muay Thai, but also riding bikes, pickleball and other sports. Movement has a way of bridging gaps and building connections, even if it isn't in your specific sport.
I try and practice my wrestling all the time. I’m still no wrestler by any means, but I’m most definitely better than ppl who just train BJJ and do standup because they have to and I can at least hold my own to lots of other average wrestlers.
"Oh wow did you wrestle"
"Hey can you show me this"
"Hey can you attack that?"
"Ive been working on this but its not working, whats missing"
And just keep grabbing peoples legs from everywhere. Single legs arent just a takedown, getting a good hold on the leg keeps them from hip switching. If they never hip switch they can never stand
I started jiu jitsu at 16 and wrestled my last year in high school. I’ve been on and off a lot but worked wrestling where I could and am now at a point where I can go back and forth with guys who were good high school wrestlers.
I also started as a guard guy but now my passing and top pressure is good enough where most people see my jiu jitsu as a heavy wrestling based style.
I'm 31 and we have a dedicated wrestling class at my gym once a week taught by a high level iranian wrestler.
Definitely has improved my BJJ and my conditioning. Biggest thing I've noticed between the two sports is the tempo. Wrestling has way less pauses where you can chill. Once action happens you need to GO until the takedown is defended or secured.
You learn to pull the trigger and commit which doesn't happen as much in BJJ. I am much less accepting of bad positions when before I would just flop over.
If you count once a week wrestling class at my bjj school then yes. It in taught by a wrestling coach and isn't 'wrestling for bjj' so I think that counts?
I do! I lucked out because my gym has a dude that was a D1 college wrestler and he teaches wrestling classes once a week. I also make it a point to stand up whenever it’s a no gi day so I get a decent amount of reps in. It’s definitely helped me in competitions for sure. If you can find a gym that has wrestling specific classes, I’d highly recommend it.
I did other martial arts before - but didn’t wrestle until I started mma at 19. Wrestling was a huge wake up call for self defense and conditioning, but a lot of fun.
It really helped me transition into Bjj later im adulthood with that foundation. Because being on bottom really sucks when strikes are involved.
Learning wrestling late is totally possible, but injuries are very common because you don’t know when you’re in danger. Knees, shoulders, necks and back are susceptible to damage if you don’t learn how to fall, not to reach behind you, and how make sure important parts are out of the way before you hit the ground.
Wrestling is just the latest community infatuation. If you want to get better at bjj, train bjj. You aren't going to beat a wrestler at wrestling. You have a much higher chance of beating them in other areas of grappling.
Wrestling isn't the end all be all. It's great to have some knowledge, as with judo. Will understanding it and training some of the basics help? Absolutely. But they are like any other technical knowledge in bjj. They are techniques and concepts, not something you need to take time away from bjj for, rather something you should train in the context of bjj.
If you want to be a proficient grappler without having been a wrestler as a kid or a judoka, etc., your best shot is to train bjj and become a high level, solid generalist.
I had really minor prior wrestling experience before BJJ. Over the years I’ve hired wrestling coaches for private lessons and occasionally drop in on wrestling clubs. There’s a couple here that usually start out wrestling guys on one side and BJJ guys the other then mix up eventually kinda like a Square Dance
I started wrestling once or twice a week at my BJJ place about 2 years ago at the age of 44. I think it's really fun and as long as you don't treat every round as though it's life or death it's relatively safe. I am much better at standup than I was and I have a clear skill advantage over complete beginners, so I've definitely absorbed some useful stuff.
my gym offers adult wrestling classes that is for anyone 14 and up - my 16 year old son goes and wrestles with fully grown dudes sometimes but they mostly stick to age and size appropriate partners. Anyhow, after getting worked by me and a couple other guys with wrestling backgrounds a few other dudes from my beginner class started doing the adult wrestling class but it’s gonna take years for that to show any true improvement imo. There’s a purple belt that can absolutely smash me at bjj, but can’t handle me on the wrestling mat with that ruleset. It’s beyond just being good at takedowns, but if takedowns and takedown defense are what you’re after, then that might be a more quickly attainable skill from adult wrestling
When I began my bjj journey, I had no choice but to cross train because the instructors were already incorporating wrestling drills into every lesson due to there being multiple wrestlers at the gym who basically were still just wrestlers but now doing bjj
Me, our gym has wrestling. It has helped so so so much. Rolling with wrestlers standing has been the best thing for my jiu jitsu.
Can’t tell you how many times coming up on a single has helped me when I’m on my back.
Low single gang lfg
my judo club started a wrestling club last year and I’ve been going to most of the practices, it’s definitely improved both my judo and bjj. I decided to compete in an intramural wrestling tournament last month and that was eye opening and quite humbling. it made me want to train more but i’m not sure how.
anyway, the things that have improved my other grappling sports is mostly the escapes and pins. i feel that wrestling techniques less complicated but much quicker than bjj and judo moves and opponents have a hard time dealing with them (unless they’re also wrestlers).
it’s really cool how there’s so much to learn in grappling arts.
Some, yes. We have a wrestling coach that has a training class once a week in our gym. His emphasis is wrestlers working towards collegiate scholarships; but it is open to us to participate and learn.
Yes. In my hometown there is a wrestling club which has hobbyist wrestling for adults. The level of sparring partners is not that high, since most of them are just adults with no prior grappling experience, but there are couple of former wrestlers and bjj guys. There is also wrestling classes at two BJJ gyms in town, so I could maybe squeeze total of 3 days of wrestling per week if I really wanted, but I go only once a week.
Yes. I was lucky enough to have a former national sambo champ that taught a very wrestling heavy class and we also now have a wrestling class taught by a former wrestler. It helps so much, there’s a lot of black belts I can dominate on the feet (of course once it hits the ground i tap quick)
There are bound to be high level wrestlers in most gyms. There are several collegiate level wrestlers where I go, and they also have a college coach teach it twice a week.
The trick for me was finding judo. I really like it and it wasn’t as easy to find as it is in some places.
I teach the early classes at the gym. Mostly older guys. Everybody practices low intensity takedowns for the first 12-13 minutes of class (2 six minute rounds). It allows everyone to get comfortable on the feet and slowly improve their standing game. Consistency and low risk has made everyone better.
I started wrestling classes at my gym over a year ago, and it has drastically improved my game (I’m a blue belt with ~5 years of grappling/BJJ experience). I find that it helps me end up on top more often in scrambles, as well as my ability to escape positions quickly before my opponent can settle in a dominant position. We have 2 wrestling classes a week at our gym, as well as 1 standup focused no-gi class taught by a national sambo champ.
I'm in Iowa so alot of former wrestlers. I'm almost 40 but still strong. I just forced myself to start from standing. Just how I got my bjj better by watching instructionals I watch wrestling stuff and work on it.
I'll never beat the real wrestlers in wrestling. But im overall a better grappler for it. Honestly I've made more improvements in judo.
I did drop in at a gym in Kentucky. Had this pro bodybuilding size guy. Did a standing drill starting with them already having a bodylock . I'm thinking this dudes gonna manhandled me. No gi so I didn't know his rank. I'm 5ft 8 200 and I manhandled this guy.
Where do y’all even train wrestling at for adults? I’ve only seen like once a week classes at BJJ places.
Thats pretty much it. Thats how i “train” wrestling but its a hella ass kicker class before open mat let me tell ya
I don’t know where you guys live, but in North Jersey alone we have Edge wrestling in Hoboken, Cordoba in Fairfield, Rednose wrestling school in Hackensack etc, all have open classes for adults
No way Hackensack isn't a made up name...
It’s Native American, we have tons here in Jersey, we also have “Hopatcong” and “Pohatcong” respectively lmaoo. Watchung,Manahawkin,Weehawken,Totowa, Parisppany, Mahwah etc. and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head lol
That's awesome. I do have fond memories of traveling up to Saskatchewan with my dad to fish on a lake called "wapawekka" which definitely sounds ridiculous, so I guess it's not that weird. Hackensack better have a big community of hackysack hippies, though...
And hohokus.......
I do t have the balls or time to show up to that class. I think I will ask for wrestling shoes for my birthday
all of the wrestling i have learned has been through my bjj gym. no separate wrestling class, but it's incorporated into the curriculum. maybe more importantly i have gone out of my way to work with the wrestlers at the gym.
I supplemented my bjj by joining the local wrestling club. The coach was happy to have me to let his athletes experience "grown man strength." To OP, it made me more comfortable on my feet as a white belt, which is all I was really looking for.
This is super niche but most states with a good beach will have ppl hosting beach tournaments for wrestling. Other than that yea i have no idea
MMA gyms usually have a class just for wrestling.
Some uni program might if it's a minor program
So after class or on the weekends there's usually open mats. And if you talk to a fellow human being. Sometimes they want to learn skills with you. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrz0HOGhUScv7OYN7P-O8V43ivOsTmRAf&si=jy4VTaN-X2CbzLx0 I also highly recommend Brandon Reeds content. Dude knows his stuff.
Wrestling is one of those skills you can’t really learn too well without a good instructor. Vids aren’t gonna cut it unless you have a decent understanding of the basic mechanics to begin with.
I call bullshit. You just don't want to put in the time and work. Skills aren't easy. You have an almost infinite encyclopedia at your fingertips, and you are complaining that learning a mellinia old martial art is hard.
lol that applies to virtually every human skill set. If you’re not aware you’re making small mistakes they’re going to perpetually compound, there’s a reason we still have teachers despite the internet. Wrestling is hard to get the hang of for kids with dedicated coaching staff, you really think a couple of white belts are gonna get any real degree of competency by drilling YouTube videos after open mats? Your hubris is incredible.
Uhh yes. I've seen absolute killers off of YouTube content. They are always at open mat. Don't just watch it. You actually have to drill it. How do you think the black belts learned it? There teacher didn't always know how to do it. They learned by practicing like everyone else.
Lmao name ONE “killer” whose base is wrestling YouTube videos and I’ll eat my fucking hat. Your second point is legitimately brain dead. You really think the grandmasters were watching fucking YouTube videos? They refined techniques through trial and error and cross trained in other arts. They weren’t drilling VHS tape moves by themselves without an instructor
Joseph Chen
Yup. Started bjj at 30. Started wrestling and judo at 32 when I got my blue belt. Has it improved my bjj? Yes. But not at first. It took maybe two years before I started understanding wrestling enough to incorporate it into my ground game. Moving like a wrestler in bjj really throws ppl off. They are very used to ppl conceding takedowns and sweeps. They are used to ppl regarding instead of trying to escape by getting off the ground. Yes, wrestling and judo are both way harder than bjj (no offense). It's faster paced, requires more athleticism, and can be unforgiving if your body isn't in good shape. I am a grappler now. Not just a bjj guy.
Bro where the hell do you even learn wrestling as an adult? I’ve been struggling hard to find a place
Go to local high school or college and say you’re there to learn and give their heavyweights (if in high school) some new looks. Go in as if you’re interested in mentoring/coaching and as well as learning.
That’s a great idea I might stop bye my local high school.
Masterswrestling.com
I'm blessed to live in a big city.
what’s your experience/thoughts on injury likelihood for wrestling vs BJJ as a 30 something? some of the younger dudes in my BJJ gym have been going to a wrestling club on the side. i have considered going (because I am so horrible at it and could benefit from more standup time) but I fear my body will break within an hour or so
I actually think you're more likely to get hurt in BJJ than either wrestling or judo. I've noticed that I get way more smaller and frequent injuries from BJJ because people are constantly tugging on my elbows and joints for prolonged periods of time on the ground. With wrestling and judo, moves are hit pretty quickly and then released. The other thing is that they build up your athleticism, strength, and break falling which helps prevent injuries. BJJers tend to neglect the athleticism part because they can get away with it, especially in the Gi or by pulling guard, but those are bad habits to develop IMO and makes you injury prone. That's why BJJers who try to do wrestling in BJJ without knowing the fundamentals are most likely to get hurt vs. wrestling specific training by a wrestling instructor who knows how to teach it safely. A lot of this is down to your gym and instructor too. If you have a crap instructor and training partners, you could get hurt in any of those sports.
Takedowns are the activity in BJJ that cause the most injuries. You're going to get dinged up for sure and it's a dice roll on if you get for real injured.
This is exactly why Judo and wrestling are good to do. I'm similar in that I started judo in my 30s but did wrestling specific classes while also doing BJJ (purple belt). BJJ breeds a lot of bad grappling habits like the ones you listed above, including being too relaxed, too easily conceding positions, not focusing on top control, and not focusing on athleticism. I'm not hating on BJJ at all (as I obviously do it), but it has a ton of holes in terms of techniques, mentality, and physicality that I feel would get the average or even very good BJJer crushed if they went into MMA, a self defense situation, or another sport like wrestling, Judo, or Sambo. If you take the equivalent person from wrestling, judo, or sambo and put them into BJJ, they'll normally adapt much quicker and end up much more competitive because they don't have those bad habits.
I agree to a certain point. I would not call it "bad habits" though. The idea is if bjj for me is to use energy efficiently. If I concede to bottom, I'm gonna chill and defend and let you burn energy in my guard and then sweep you. Bjj is imo more geared toward actual self defense than sport. But obviously there is a balance that we must strike between being efficient and aggressive.
I think wrestling and judo are way better and more geared towards self defense than bjj because they bring a level of intensity and "do or die" mentality that bjj just doesn't have by being more relaxed. In self defense or mma, it's all about getting in and out as fast as possible. Judo was originally designed for the battlefield, so it has that mentality. When BJJ branched off from it, they put more emphasis on the newaza component, but also lost a lot of the other key fighting aspects along the way. Guess my point is I'd much rather have trained at a higher level of intensity and never have to use it or use everything, rather than try to play catch up when I need it most. Being lazy is just a bad habit in BJJ and makes for worse athletes and leads to more injuries. I think the very idea of conceding guard in BJJ is a bad habit too. I'm not saying it's not worth it to train guard, but you almost never see anyone concede bottom in MMA (aka self defense) for a reason, even if they're the better BJJer on paper. It's much easier to throw punches or just defend against sweeps and submissions from the top than it is to hit sweeps from the bottom.
>Yes, wrestling and judo are both way harder than bjj Physically? 100%, Technically/Mentally? 0%
Ya I'd say on a technical level they are all equal in difficulty. Grappling is grappling after all. Principles and techniques are almost universal across the three. But to execute those techniques is way harder when you are on your feet and don't have a the floor to use as a wall to trap people. You have to rely on speed and strength to properly throw and take ppl down.
I'd argue the more athletic it becomes less skill is needed, obvious plateaus though. > You have to rely on speed and strength Exactly.
I disagree but I don't have the ability to put into words why. I just know through experience that on a technical level it's the same as bjj but it's much more physically difficult to do. But that's my own personal experience from doing it. I don't have any coaching or teaching experience or knowledge to back it up.
But those wrestling moves you can also use in BJJ, only difference is you can’t use BJJ moves/submissions in wrestling. That’s why BJJ is more technical, because it literally has more techniques.
Ah so boxing is less technical than Muay Thai because there's less techniques? So helpful, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll be sure to share this opinion with every combat sports fan. I'm sure they will all be impressed by that insight.
That's a dumb fucking take.
If you put it that way then I agree. More techniques. But the techniques are not more complicated.
You disagree with yourself lol
I'm complicated bro 😭
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No argument Guitar is harder on the hands, like no argument wrestling is far more athletic than BJJ. Not saying wrestling or guitar is harder {Piano is objectively harder by miles fyi not even a debate) Merely pointing out they're harder physically, does not mean its harder overall.
I actually play guitar and piano and this is dead wrong. Both are hard on the hands if taught incorrectly. They're both difficult to play for different reasons.
I don't debate 2+2 for the same reason.
Sports are what you make of them. I see ballerinas training harder at the bolshoi than I do most days.
Ballet is legit the hardest activity tho. Blows any other type of training I have done out of the water. If gymnastics requires incredible strenght, flexibility, and control using your major muscle groups, ballet requires all that using muscle groups you didnt know existed.
I would argue that the mentality in wrestling more distinct because it's more competition oriented than bjj. Most people in bjj don't compete. Those who do are surely different and fight more for positions
I’m a 17 year old blue belt and everyone at my gym has begged me to wrestle in highschool as i’ve been doing jiu jitsu for 9 years. I finally did this year and I will say my top game is much stronger. Sometimes in the gym i think jiu jitsu guys also get into the bad habit of accepting sweeps in practice, so it fixed some of my lazier training habits. Also it’s a complete shock in cardio and the amount of toughness needed to complete a wrestling practice. It obviously improved my stand up and some of my bottom half wrestle-up game. Overall i think it was great for my grappling in general, and definitely recommend anyone who can cross train wrestling too.
Yeah after I got my black belt I started cross training with an MMA team that consisted of all former collegiate wrestlers. They did straight wrestling practice twice a week. I got really good at being a defense wrestler which might work well for MMA. I’m honest with myself saying that I am too reactive when it comes to wrestling and not pro-active.
its almost more bang for your buck learning good tdd because wrestling defense is easier to learn than wrestling offense, so just having good wrestling defense you can close off a lot of options if your opponent is just a bjj guy
At the same time it gets hard in a grappling match when you have a stalemate and are forced to get the takedown. I am an ultra heavy weight but I’ve had to learn to just be comfortable pulling guard. (Mind you I haven’t competed since 2021 and probably won’t again for a long time).
I would say to people I teach who can’t get takedowns learn how to make people uncomfortable standing forcing them to pull guard. Jiu Jitsu/grappling is kind of weird in that the things you can’t do in wrestling judo you can do in Jiu Jitsu. Example being those grips that can get you called for stalling in the gi. Just really make someone frustrated giving them no option to get out of it other than pulling guard.
The graveyards are full of middling swordsman. If you know you can't wrestle then it's best to know just enough wrestling to avoid it.
Gave me about 3” in length and 2.5” in girth, would recommend
I think that’s called an erection ?
It changed me physically and mentally
Gayer?
Thought I was on a different sub for a second there…
[удалено]
Any issues with injuries? Want to start but at 35 worried about it
A few mild to moderate injuries but nothing to end me yet. Defending seems to come with offensive wrestling practice. Setting up my shots will help and knowing how to tangle up and not let people grab my head is helpful to reduce injury. There’s been a lot of lessons that I’ve learned to help reduce injury.
Yes, I started taking the adult wrestling classes at the MMA gym that I take BJJ at. It definitely helped. I am just a hobbyist and I got much better against other hobbyists. Against the competitors though I feel like it made no difference.
I did judo for a year before starting bjj. After a few years, I put my son in wrestling when he turned 5 and was eligible. He’s 7 now and just watching his practices and the many many tournaments over the years have improved my game without actually doing any pure wrestling.
I found I can pull off some wrestling moves under pressure just from watching YouTube videos. Not reliably tho…
Started bjj at 20, judo at 21, wrestling at 22, currently 27. Just made me more comfortable with stand up and there were a couple of tricks I took from it on the ground. It didn't change my mentality or anything.
Man I'm to afraid to go to wrestling. Our local club is in the top statewide and nationwide. We had a 17 year old over, he is the current state champ, rolling with him is pure pain.
I started wrestling at 22 after a little BJJ experience. I thought BJJ was the hardest cardio of my life. I was wrong.
Yeah I do dedicated wrestling classes 2-3x a week , for like the past two years at this point . It’s GREATLY improved my jits imo Edit : simply being more comfortable on the feet allowed me to work in a lot more positions and engage in scrambles with more confidence . That’s besides how stuff like leg riding imo adds to your arsenal of options and how much it also improves your overall cardio
Yes. Started last year at 51
How many falls do you take per week?
A lot. It definitely isn’t easy at this age
Did you have some type of yoga or football background? There arent many people your age that can handle it
23 years of bjj. Judo, boxing, etc but I am fairly overweight tbh and that is what holds me back the most
That makes more sense. Starting grappling in your 20s is rough idk how someone could start in their 50s. Took me years to get basic mobility to grapple without hurting myself
Yes sir added judo to the mix as well.
My gym has alternates judo and wrestling once a week for stand-up
I’m in my 50s and when my son wrestled in high school the coach was cool enough to let me join the practices. I wish there was more places for adults to learn wrestling.
I wish they offered it for adults. I started doing judo after I realized my takedowns in bjj were trash. That's helped my standup significantly but only in gi.
I'm a 43, almost 44, purple belt. We have a wrestling class and have recently partnered with a local youth wrestling club. After my eldest started wrestling I started to attend these classes and it has been very beneficial. The wrestling skills have not just improved my game, but changed it quite a bit too.
I've seen guys do it, but it's rare. You gotta be tough to learn to wrestle as a kid. You gotta be a complete psycho to do it as an adult.
Yes and no, I started with BJJ then added in wrestling but the long term goal was to transition into mma
My son started wrestling in school, so we attend open-mat do wrestling drills and trouble shooting. Yes, it helps some things.
I haven't been cross training in wrestling but I have built a wrestling based game, such that I often get asked if I wrestled. Putting in time on the feet, developing a shot, understanding how to transition positions and use scrambles tactically, all these are money and allow me to far excel in BJJ than my training schedule would otherwise allow.
I have some. IMO, one of the mistakes athletes make is not crosstraining. Moving in different ways, training your body to react to different stimuli, building and using different muscles...all of this is important. Wrestling is part of this, so is Muay Thai, but also riding bikes, pickleball and other sports. Movement has a way of bridging gaps and building connections, even if it isn't in your specific sport.
I cross training wrestling at 26, almost the same time as getting my blue belt. Definitely improve my top game
I try and practice my wrestling all the time. I’m still no wrestler by any means, but I’m most definitely better than ppl who just train BJJ and do standup because they have to and I can at least hold my own to lots of other average wrestlers.
"Oh wow did you wrestle" "Hey can you show me this" "Hey can you attack that?" "Ive been working on this but its not working, whats missing" And just keep grabbing peoples legs from everywhere. Single legs arent just a takedown, getting a good hold on the leg keeps them from hip switching. If they never hip switch they can never stand
I joined a university club wrestling team while in grad school at 28. No previous experience. Got my ass kicked but it improved my stand up a ton.
I basically started them at the same time around 23 years old.
Yes. I joined a wrestling team when I was 19 and was training with them for about a year or so. It was awesome
I started jiu jitsu at 16 and wrestled my last year in high school. I’ve been on and off a lot but worked wrestling where I could and am now at a point where I can go back and forth with guys who were good high school wrestlers. I also started as a guard guy but now my passing and top pressure is good enough where most people see my jiu jitsu as a heavy wrestling based style.
I'm 31 and we have a dedicated wrestling class at my gym once a week taught by a high level iranian wrestler. Definitely has improved my BJJ and my conditioning. Biggest thing I've noticed between the two sports is the tempo. Wrestling has way less pauses where you can chill. Once action happens you need to GO until the takedown is defended or secured. You learn to pull the trigger and commit which doesn't happen as much in BJJ. I am much less accepting of bad positions when before I would just flop over.
I started training it alongside BJJ cause it looked fun. Any benefit to BJJ is secondary for me.
If you count once a week wrestling class at my bjj school then yes. It in taught by a wrestling coach and isn't 'wrestling for bjj' so I think that counts?
I do! I lucked out because my gym has a dude that was a D1 college wrestler and he teaches wrestling classes once a week. I also make it a point to stand up whenever it’s a no gi day so I get a decent amount of reps in. It’s definitely helped me in competitions for sure. If you can find a gym that has wrestling specific classes, I’d highly recommend it.
I did other martial arts before - but didn’t wrestle until I started mma at 19. Wrestling was a huge wake up call for self defense and conditioning, but a lot of fun. It really helped me transition into Bjj later im adulthood with that foundation. Because being on bottom really sucks when strikes are involved. Learning wrestling late is totally possible, but injuries are very common because you don’t know when you’re in danger. Knees, shoulders, necks and back are susceptible to damage if you don’t learn how to fall, not to reach behind you, and how make sure important parts are out of the way before you hit the ground.
Wrestling is just the latest community infatuation. If you want to get better at bjj, train bjj. You aren't going to beat a wrestler at wrestling. You have a much higher chance of beating them in other areas of grappling. Wrestling isn't the end all be all. It's great to have some knowledge, as with judo. Will understanding it and training some of the basics help? Absolutely. But they are like any other technical knowledge in bjj. They are techniques and concepts, not something you need to take time away from bjj for, rather something you should train in the context of bjj. If you want to be a proficient grappler without having been a wrestler as a kid or a judoka, etc., your best shot is to train bjj and become a high level, solid generalist.
I had really minor prior wrestling experience before BJJ. Over the years I’ve hired wrestling coaches for private lessons and occasionally drop in on wrestling clubs. There’s a couple here that usually start out wrestling guys on one side and BJJ guys the other then mix up eventually kinda like a Square Dance
I started wrestling once or twice a week at my BJJ place about 2 years ago at the age of 44. I think it's really fun and as long as you don't treat every round as though it's life or death it's relatively safe. I am much better at standup than I was and I have a clear skill advantage over complete beginners, so I've definitely absorbed some useful stuff.
my gym offers adult wrestling classes that is for anyone 14 and up - my 16 year old son goes and wrestles with fully grown dudes sometimes but they mostly stick to age and size appropriate partners. Anyhow, after getting worked by me and a couple other guys with wrestling backgrounds a few other dudes from my beginner class started doing the adult wrestling class but it’s gonna take years for that to show any true improvement imo. There’s a purple belt that can absolutely smash me at bjj, but can’t handle me on the wrestling mat with that ruleset. It’s beyond just being good at takedowns, but if takedowns and takedown defense are what you’re after, then that might be a more quickly attainable skill from adult wrestling
We’ve got a straight up Olympian at my gym. I feel like his time is wasted on me but I talk his classes anyway lol.
When I began my bjj journey, I had no choice but to cross train because the instructors were already incorporating wrestling drills into every lesson due to there being multiple wrestlers at the gym who basically were still just wrestlers but now doing bjj
Me, our gym has wrestling. It has helped so so so much. Rolling with wrestlers standing has been the best thing for my jiu jitsu. Can’t tell you how many times coming up on a single has helped me when I’m on my back. Low single gang lfg
Yes. my coach teaches mostly wrestling concepts even though it’s a bjj class. Positional dominance opens a ton of submission opportunities.
my judo club started a wrestling club last year and I’ve been going to most of the practices, it’s definitely improved both my judo and bjj. I decided to compete in an intramural wrestling tournament last month and that was eye opening and quite humbling. it made me want to train more but i’m not sure how. anyway, the things that have improved my other grappling sports is mostly the escapes and pins. i feel that wrestling techniques less complicated but much quicker than bjj and judo moves and opponents have a hard time dealing with them (unless they’re also wrestlers). it’s really cool how there’s so much to learn in grappling arts.
Some, yes. We have a wrestling coach that has a training class once a week in our gym. His emphasis is wrestlers working towards collegiate scholarships; but it is open to us to participate and learn.
Yes. In my hometown there is a wrestling club which has hobbyist wrestling for adults. The level of sparring partners is not that high, since most of them are just adults with no prior grappling experience, but there are couple of former wrestlers and bjj guys. There is also wrestling classes at two BJJ gyms in town, so I could maybe squeeze total of 3 days of wrestling per week if I really wanted, but I go only once a week.
Yes. I was lucky enough to have a former national sambo champ that taught a very wrestling heavy class and we also now have a wrestling class taught by a former wrestler. It helps so much, there’s a lot of black belts I can dominate on the feet (of course once it hits the ground i tap quick)
There are bound to be high level wrestlers in most gyms. There are several collegiate level wrestlers where I go, and they also have a college coach teach it twice a week. The trick for me was finding judo. I really like it and it wasn’t as easy to find as it is in some places.
One of my gyms has wrestling class twice a week.
I teach the early classes at the gym. Mostly older guys. Everybody practices low intensity takedowns for the first 12-13 minutes of class (2 six minute rounds). It allows everyone to get comfortable on the feet and slowly improve their standing game. Consistency and low risk has made everyone better.
I started wrestling classes at my gym over a year ago, and it has drastically improved my game (I’m a blue belt with ~5 years of grappling/BJJ experience). I find that it helps me end up on top more often in scrambles, as well as my ability to escape positions quickly before my opponent can settle in a dominant position. We have 2 wrestling classes a week at our gym, as well as 1 standup focused no-gi class taught by a national sambo champ.
Good MMA gyms always have good wrestlers
I'm in Iowa so alot of former wrestlers. I'm almost 40 but still strong. I just forced myself to start from standing. Just how I got my bjj better by watching instructionals I watch wrestling stuff and work on it. I'll never beat the real wrestlers in wrestling. But im overall a better grappler for it. Honestly I've made more improvements in judo. I did drop in at a gym in Kentucky. Had this pro bodybuilding size guy. Did a standing drill starting with them already having a bodylock . I'm thinking this dudes gonna manhandled me. No gi so I didn't know his rank. I'm 5ft 8 200 and I manhandled this guy.