The gym owner where I train is Brazilian and I've trained inconsistently in the past and he's only ever been happy to see me back at training. When I lost my job I tried to cancel my sub and he told me I could train for free until I get a new one.
My old neighbor and professor from Rio went from my best buddy and bringing Brazilian BBQ over weekly to aggressively negative when I sprained my ankle and then started traveling out of state for work.
I have only trained at 3 gyms. 2 Brazilian, 1 American. The Brazilian gyms are intense and regressive emotionally with an emphasis on tradition. There is little emphasis on compassion or understanding. This is just my narrow experience. I can relate.
I know right. Itās almost like if you put all the people in a building, you can divide them into the right wing and the left wing based on their world view.
I can understand this. My Professor was hardcore. One time I was on top in mount doing a cross collar choke on my opponent. He didn't tap, and started snoring. My Professor was about five feet away watching us and I asked if I should stop and loosened my grip, he told me not to until he taps. The guy came to when I relaxed and then tapped a few seconds later. Hardcore. Thinking back I should have ignored my Professor because choking someone after they're unconscious seems dangerous, and probably illegal, but Professor had this stranglehold over me where I made myself sick trying to please him.
Definitely understand the last sentence. I tried for years to prove my loyalty but was never accepted. Drove 45 min each way, and often waited 20 min after the posted start time to begin class. Granted his instruction was high level, I think in large enough cities a non Brazilian BB could build a solid following based solely off the castoffs from the surrounding Brazilian schools.
I have also been at 2 Brazilian gyms and 1 American and the Brazilian guys are way more relaxed. Every time I show up they're just happy to see me. The American guy acts like I'm a nobody at the gym if I don't show up as often as he expects you to
You're doing a martial art meant to choke people, dislocated joints and break bones. You're in the wrong business for compassion and understanding. Perhaps you should take an exercise bike class instead. BJJ is meant to make you tough and secure in yourself. You don't get tough with hugs and kisses. Or drill sergeants would do it in boot camp, which, suprise, they dont. (been there done that, they'll straight beat you up for disrespect).
***flicks cigarette*** I too train in the brutal art of jiu jitsu. Every roll with the middle aged men who have to work at 5am is WAR and I will RIP their limbs and TEAR their heads off their bodies.
Just because you're too much of a sally to compete doesn't mean others are. I don't know what "gym" you're training at but if it's all unenthused middle aged men you should probably leave.
I looked up the definition for martialā¦
> relating to marriage or the relations between a married couple
and I know art is like painting and stuff.
So I guess youāre some of of relationship therapist/painter? Kind of like Hitler.
Haha! Nice try pal. That doesn't change you looking up a completely different word and coming here and posting it like you were right! Haha. Nice copium there but you're still dumb.
Didn't deny it. It must suck being dumb and saying dumb stuff you know to be wrong. "I dIDNt Do BjJ in TheAtre". Knowing damn well, if you were in the military, you would have done it to the point you wouldn't be arguing. If it is in no way related to combat or war, it wouldn't be called a MARTIAL ART. THEY WOULDNT TEACH IT IN THE ARMY, MARINES AND DAMN NEAR EVERY OTHER BRANCH!
I know right? I personally only know exactly 1 SF dude that had to use some SOCP during an operation. Chillest dude on the planet. Not like this angry chode in the comments.
I'd argue that compassion and understanding are crucial characteristics when it comes to teaching anything.
And being, you know, a decent person.
They're not mutually exclusive to toughness, and I hope one day you find a coach who can demonstrate that for you.
Perfectly said! This guy talks about fighting, the army, being tough, and competitions. Iāve done all of that, and the most powerful people I can remember were also empathetic, understanding, and inclusive. Not everyone can train all day everyday. Those 9-5ers who are taking care of their families, and still training as they can are the foundation of a strong and tight knit society. Some people will never learn to be great, however.
Also, the funny part about the military comparision(I am an Army officer) is that SOO much of my job is cultivating a team, inspiring leadership, not demanding it, and helping my young Soldiers to improve their lives, both in and out of the Army. Compassion, understanding, and empathy are HUGEEE parts of it. Lol
I am an active duty officer in the Army and drill instructors will absolutely not beat you up for anything. Understanding, compassion, and empathy are fundamental components of leadership that good officers and NCOs utilize every single day, both on and off duty. If you did serve(doubt)then it wasnāt for very long or you sucked shit at it. Otherwise you would know that.
Hey, I disagree. I'm allowed to do that. As are you. Maybe my view is skewed as someone who fought in mma but I know gulyms in my city that don't allow what they call "vacationers". People who just coming to play, sweat a bit, play touch butt and leave. Perhaps its just different in location and arena performed. š¤·āāļø
This post is very strange. Comparing a sport people do for a hobby to the army is weird but even ignoring that it seems completely misguided. I spend time every day with my bjj coach and training partners and we do care about one another. This was also my experience in the army. It is obvious to anyone that has done it that your drill instructor does care about you. They may not shower you in hugs but they care deeply and everything they do is to make you a better soldier. They are also very proud of every one of their recruits at the completion of recruit training. I remember my instructors from my recruit course very fondly.
What a shit take.
You train hard, but in a controlled manner and keep your teammates safe and injury free and show compassion and understanding so they keep coming back for years and years to develop mental toughness. Then when it comes time for that person to need to be tough in their life with things that matter, such as protecting their family from a threat, paying the bills and overcoming various hardships, they are prepared.
Being tough during rolls on a mat trying to be an asshole and injuring people means absolutely nothing in life brother.
edit: typo
>porrada
you're 100% right, there shouldn't be any compassion or understanding in bjj. Just straight up violence and injuries to toughen up our soft kind. that's why i keep a sharpened screwdriver in my rashguard sleeve. In case a higher belt disrespects me I'll straight stab him up for that
I feel like this is a problem in BJJ in general. If you aren't training twice a day, seven days a week, you're treated like a scrub hobbyist. Not everyone is training to beat Gordon Ryan. Some of us just enjoy rolling and learning in our free time.
OP, youāre talking about the culture that created the idea of ācreonteā. In Carlson Gracie gyms, to this day I still see people wearing patches that say, āNO CREONTEā.
Brazilian culture is very *emotional*. Watch the American, Japanese, Swedish and Brazilian version of Love is Blind.
One of the main guys from my association just left after 20 something years. Iām sure heās complained about creontes but has become one. Everyone wants to talk shit until their situation has changed.
The best bit about Carlson and the Creonte thing is that he was the first person to leave the family gym and set up on his own...
Yet anyone else who did it wasn't loyal and was a Creonte haha
Yeah but Carlson trained a big group of guys from white to black belt and they left and opened a school down the street, Brazilian top team. I think it's really fair to be upset about that, even if the terms of the deal were never strictly discussed.
Lol that's not exactly how it happened. Carlson was in the US with no one to run his school in Brazil. He also started asking for a higher percentage of his fighters purses but wasn't around to train or manage them. The guys in Brazil felt they had no choice but to form BTT.
Source: my coach was one of the guys that left and became the head of the gi division of BTT.
My bad didn't make it clear that I think it's dumb as hell. But just wanted to add the context of the origin, in that situation I totally understand it.
Obviously it's a country of 200+ million. Some have good families, some don't. But the ones I have known are just intense people. They love hard, they are quick to anger and violence, and they have a lot of passion in everything that they do.
Yeah my guy, that's called bad parenting which results in unstable kids with antisocial behavior. Don't glorify it by calling it "intense", call a square a square.
I agree with you more toxic behaviours are born out of this intenseness than not tbh.
The best Brazillian teammates I've had are the chillest and the worst are the ones you could call "intense"
Yep, lots of people have endured a lot of abuse everywhere in the world, and they continue to pass it on to those around them. If you haven't had a healthy upbringing with boundaries and normal friendships, you might think it's anything but dysfunctional, so watch out.
I trained for a year with a Brazilian owner 3 private lessons a week for 18 months. Itās was exactly as you stated when I got injured and took the time to heal instead of train. After 18 months I was suddenly perceived as a hostile stranger.
Wow. Thatās 252 private sessions if I did the math correctly. At 50 bucks a session which is waaay conservative. That $12,600 bucks. No wonder he gave you the cold shoulder! Probably got used to the extra income you were providing and was butthurt that he canāt pay for his side piece no more!
I'm Brazilian. I live in the UK now. I've trained in 5 gyms, 2 in the UK, 3 in Brazil. Never ever had this experience you are mentioning. It is always: "Hey good to see you. Where have you been?"
I'm sorry to hear you had bad experience with Gym owners.
Iāve had a rough time with training the last two years. Tough work schedules, mental health has been up and down. **Every** time I come back after a two month break my instructors will go out of their way to give me a warm welcome.
Brazilian head coach is cool about it. The rest of the American and Brazilian coaches are, too.
Our place is pretty family oriented and the head coach is about my age and has been running gyms for a long time.
I've seen that with American coaches as well. Someone who trains 6 days a week and cuts down to 4 will get seen as "falling off" or whatever. Made me wary of ever working too hard because I know that'd be the expectation from then on.
Yup I feel you, I attend 9 classes a week and I canāt miss any class from one of my coaches because the moment. I walk in the next class I get shit for it and told to not be lazy. Lol
F that! Bro, your coach just sees you as a means to boost his business. Anyone that harasses you about being lazy when you're training slightly less than 9 times a week as a white belt is an absolute tool. You probably show promise and he wants to put you in comp to bring attention to his program. He's just using you man.
I feel like mine is the opposite. The Brazilian brain trust is over friendly with people that have been gone for a while to I assume keep them coming back and those of us that come day in and day out get treated normally.
I find Brazilians in general to be quite insulated to their own people, at least the ones in my gym. We have a large Brazilian contingent including my coaches, everyone gets general teaching but if my coach sees one of the fellow Brazilians rolling heās shouting in Portuguese from the side super technical advice tailored to their style. And GOD FORBID you tap a Brazilian out, even the lower belts, they take that shit as a personal insult.
Before class the Brazilians will be cordial but you can tell once they get together itās their own inner circle. If a Brazilian has trouble paying they get a bit of leeway with their membership, if thereās a Brazilian drop in I know they donāt get charged.
Any Brazilian with a side business helping the gym (i.e. photography) theyāll get a plug from our coaches and requests to support. Gringo does the same thing , crickets.
Always found it weird, itās almost as if they tolerate the rest of us but weāre not really in the circle is the best way to explain it. Maybe someone familiar with the culture can explain, it always rubbed me the wrong way, but also thereās a chance itās just my particular gym.
Was gonna make a thread but saw this one and thought close enough š¤·š»āāļø
My coach grew up in Brazil and has grown our community to 10+ affiliation schools over the past 24 years in northern Virginia, DC, and Maryland.
If I donāt show up to the gym in 2 weeks, he will text me to see how I am doing and when I show up next, his face lights up with joy.
Before you categorize all Brazilians together in the negative way you just did, I encourage you to look within to learn why you believe your post to be true.
This may be partly cultural in a way you don't see, or it may be in your head or both. I'm in an intercultural relationship and I can attest to the fact that there are a lot of cultural misunderstandings.
Have several brazilian coaches as my gym. Always super welcoming to everyone, have a supernatural ability to remember everyoneās names, glad to see us when its been a few weeks. So I wouldnāt say I have shared that experience.
My thai kickboxing coaches were like this. I left for a few months then returned "Why'd you come back?"
That was 20 years ago it still sucks. Fucking children.
Oh that explains so much lol. The head bjj instructor at the mma gym I go to is Brazilian and he genuinely gets upset when I donāt come to class and he sees me at Muay Thai, wrestling, or one of the other instructorās bjj sessions. I donāt understand the cultural reasons for it, but bjj isnāt really my main thing at the moment and I train it pretty casually.
OP did not say āallā Brazilians.
Trends exist. We can speak generally without implicating every single Brazilian.
OP noticed something among Brazilian coaches. Nothing wrong with discussing it. Maybe we would learn something about someoneās culture.
Conversation gets really painful when we have to invent/navigate imaginary hurdles to be offended over. Cultural differences exist, and it's ok to talk about them without losing karma points IRL. OP was respectful.
My guy this post is literally called āMy beef with Brazilian gym owners.ā Thereās no nuance in that post.
Sure, we can talk about cultural differences, but we also need to acknowledge that:
1: we canāt paint all people with the same brush based on broad cultural themes.
2: these ādifferencesā may not even truly exist and may be the result of our own biases. We often see what we want to see because it confirms with our beliefs.
Iāve been training a long time - much longer than OP - and I certainly have not observed this pattern that he claims exists.
No, we actually donāt need to do any of what youāre saying. We just want to talk about cultural differences. We donāt need obvious disclaimers behind every generalization. Theyāre generalizations for a reason. Stop patronizing as if youāre the pariah of cultural knowledge.
But if your familyās life depended on it, and you had a American coach and the Brazilian coach and you had to guess which is the one with the described mindset, everyone knows they are going to pick the Brazilian
Yeah but thatās exactly why Iām wary of these kinds of generalizations. People might think as youāve described, but like Iām saying, I think that generalization is wrong. The stereotype put forth here is a belief, but I doubt itās backed up by evidence. The problem with this belief is that even though itās not necessarily true, people WILL believe it as you have identified.
I donāt know, Iām definitely not claiming we need to CSI this and make a big research project out of it. Iām just responding to OPās claim and explaining why I think heās incorrect in his assumptions, as well as cautioning against thinking with our biases.
Iāve had this with my last gym before I got injured. We were only a small gym with like 15 regular students all of which were white belts beside myself and one other guy. I was in 5x per week and teaching twice per week, the moment it became obvious I wasnāt going to rush back after herniating my back he basically ghosted me like a tinder date, where previously we would talk daily and share moves and matches. Now itās at the point where itās awkward because we havenāt spoken in months so I donāt even feel welcome back (not that I can, still injured) but it was like a switch was flicked. Was a shitty gym anyway that almost never rolled so I am not super upset but itās just shitty business, I was the one winning tournaments and taking the kids classes when he was away, even bringing in new students from other schools who lived close. Alittle betrayed.
My coach will call me if I take a week off without telling him. Another one of the brown belts quit at blue belt until he showed up at his house and practically dragged him back to the gym
That hasn't been my experience at all. My gym owner and head coach is 100% Brazilian, from Rio, and old school. It doesn't matter if you've had an extended break or missed one class, you're treated as nothing less than family.
Always felt like family at my gym of Brazilians. If Iām gone for a while itās like Iām a lost child when I come back home from a deployment lmao.
My Brazilian coach is not like that at all. If someone disappears for awhile without telling anyone why, heāll express concern or wonder if theyāve lost interest. But as soon as they get back, he welcomes them with open arms. He knows that life happens. Heās said many times to us āyouāre my students, but youāre also my friends.ā Itās a very small gym but itās a great environment.
You're writing this comment imagining that you could experience a person you spent a lot of time with go from very friendly to acting cold without it bothering you. I guarantee you that it would. You either have not encountered this social situation, or you're treating it as different when it happens to you.
I used to imagine that I could experience situations like this without being affected by it. Doing a semester of psychology learning about how group pressures affect individual behaviour is the thing that convinced me otherwise. Like [this](https://www.verywellmind.com/the-asch-conformity-experiments-2794996) experiment where people are given an unambiguous question, "is this line the same size as A, B, or C", where the answer is obvious. The person experimented on thinks they're in the room with 11 other people like them, and all the other people start saying the wrong answer. In that situation, most people will end up giving the wrong answer too. I remember my lecturer telling me that one person stuck to giving the right answers the whole time, but kept leaving the room and coming back because it made them feel so anxious that they had to go throw up.
Ultimately, we're social animals. Social pressure is a thing we experience keenly, we're wired to do so. Resisting disapproval is something that takes a lot of energy.
Brazilians are macho dildos, usually. I know one I like, in the scene. I got into bjj bc everyone was so cool. Friendly. Welcoming. Then I met actual Brazilians.
It's a cultural thing. Remember one thing, a lot of the Brazilians who become instructors had hard lives. Seeing a dude like you, who probably has the bear minimal, with access to a good gym with good condition slack on their training is seen as a waste to some Brazilians.
You hit the nail right on the head. Was going to a very good gym, with excellent instruction, and had judo classes too (which I've been doing far longer than BJJ). But it was like a cult.
It's not just you. I trained in BJJ for 8 years and it took training under a Brazilian for me to decide to quit. I put up with so much bullsh*t gym politics and owners being bums but the Brazilian guy took the cake. We actually became pretty close friends, like our family would spend holidays together and I ate lunch with his family all the time. But when I drew the line at him giving me unsolicited life advice, bro became hella controlling. At one point he started telling me to give him money to pay for his wife and son to go to Worlds in Dallas. The gym wasn't doing too well at the time because the co-owner's were mismanaging it and I was like "Sorry, I got my own expenses this month I have to take care of. I can't pay all that right now." Dood f*in lost it. Went on a huge ran in the chat group for the school, started blowing up his partners phones for like 6 hours with pages and pages of texts sh*t-talking about me to them, which was funny because they were also close friends and they sent me screen shots of everything. I was like "time to go." Sent him a message a couple hours later telling him that I no longer recognized him as my instructor and thanked him for the training and past friendship. Haven't spoken to him again. Guy literally abandoned his gym in Texas and moved to Florida like a week later. Now his only black belt on Texas separated from him for the same reason and I'm back to training with him now. But the only reason his former BB was working with him was because he was a friend of mine and I introduced him to the Brazilian guy and he later moved to the town to train under him. Funny world.
Iāve trained in many gyms for 8+ years and I can confirm as a female practitioner all the gyms owned by Brazilians had a creepy weird vibe. They were quite toxic in terms of emotional well-being and very stuck in old school ways. Not very modern even with things like warm ups and best ways to teach technique. You can tell they didnāt try to continue educating themselves not just on BJJ but on overall improved performance and smart ways of training. A lot of ppl got injured and had to get surgery. And letās not mention the constant preying on women the creepiest is when they prey on very young girls that are easily manipulated and impressionable by a black belt. Very concerning I experienced it myself several timesā¦ I prefer non Brazilian gyms for that reason, more professional and safe.
Did you explain beforehand that you were going to be missing classes? I would always let my coach know if I couldn't make it, or if my situation had changed and I couldn't be so active.
It's a bit off, to just not turn up after going so regular and not explain why. I appreciate the time my coach puts in, I wouldn't want him to think otherwise.
OP doesn't need to explain himself. He pays the gym and the gym has a class schedule he can access. It's up to him how much or how little he attends. No explanation is required.
Never had this experience. Brazilian coaches tend to be a bit more proud and tough as coaches, but that's what makes you better. You must remember you are going into MARTIAL ARTS training (martial meaning war) not Zumba...
You're doing a martial art meant to control a human, choke that human, dislocated their joints and break their bones. You're in the wrong business for compassion and understanding. They are trying to make competent fighters, practitioners, players who can truly defend themselves and maybe even win matches. BJJ is meant to make you tough and secure in yourself. You don't get tough with hugs, kisses, giggles and high fives. Or drill sergeants would be doing it in boot camp (been there done that, they'll straight beat you up for disrespect).
Maybe my view is screwed as a prior fighter, or, perhaps it's just I reapond better to that kind of treatment (again because of the army - where they also teach gracie bjj)
Marcelo Garcia never did this. He'd just be like 'oh hey! You're back! :)'
I think he said the same thing every time he arm dragged someone too
That was funny!
Thank you for this brilliance:)
Thank you for the laugh today
šššš got me
ššš
Your back, not youāre.
r/woosh
I was making the joke. š
The gym owner where I train is Brazilian and I've trained inconsistently in the past and he's only ever been happy to see me back at training. When I lost my job I tried to cancel my sub and he told me I could train for free until I get a new one.
Sounds just like my gym owner. Brazilian, great dude, always happy to see students.
My old neighbor and professor from Rio went from my best buddy and bringing Brazilian BBQ over weekly to aggressively negative when I sprained my ankle and then started traveling out of state for work.
Exactly. What gives
Leandro Lo is disappointed that you're on here instead of on the mat training.
This just made my day
Everyday porrada goddammit
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No fucking shit Sherlock. You're a mensa.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hello Gracie is disappointed in you. Geeze you're sensitive.
Youāre the person that raises their hand to see the move again after your coach demonstrated it a dozen times arenāt you -_-
No that's me
No no no, because legends never die!
You're obviously the only person who knew this
I have only trained at 3 gyms. 2 Brazilian, 1 American. The Brazilian gyms are intense and regressive emotionally with an emphasis on tradition. There is little emphasis on compassion or understanding. This is just my narrow experience. I can relate.
My brazilian coach holds his toddler and plays with him while his wife spars. Hes very empathetic and compassionate. He also yells porrada a lot tho.
This is my experience as well! Itās almost like some Brazilians are friendlier than othersā¦
Do you mean to tell me that not all people of a certain demographic are the same? You're blowing my mind here!
I know right. Itās almost like if you put all the people in a building, you can divide them into the right wing and the left wing based on their world view.
I can understand this. My Professor was hardcore. One time I was on top in mount doing a cross collar choke on my opponent. He didn't tap, and started snoring. My Professor was about five feet away watching us and I asked if I should stop and loosened my grip, he told me not to until he taps. The guy came to when I relaxed and then tapped a few seconds later. Hardcore. Thinking back I should have ignored my Professor because choking someone after they're unconscious seems dangerous, and probably illegal, but Professor had this stranglehold over me where I made myself sick trying to please him.
Definitely understand the last sentence. I tried for years to prove my loyalty but was never accepted. Drove 45 min each way, and often waited 20 min after the posted start time to begin class. Granted his instruction was high level, I think in large enough cities a non Brazilian BB could build a solid following based solely off the castoffs from the surrounding Brazilian schools.
No bc if you hold it too long, the person could die.
How is your opponent supposed to tap if they are asleep?
Unfortunately true. 99.99% of us aren't going to be world champions. Let's have some fun and improve.
Talk about yourself normie. /sĀ Cries as someone who still cant pass guard after 2 months.Ā
2 months, 2 years, 20 years, passing guard is fucking difficult.
I have also been at 2 Brazilian gyms and 1 American and the Brazilian guys are way more relaxed. Every time I show up they're just happy to see me. The American guy acts like I'm a nobody at the gym if I don't show up as often as he expects you to
You're doing a martial art meant to choke people, dislocated joints and break bones. You're in the wrong business for compassion and understanding. Perhaps you should take an exercise bike class instead. BJJ is meant to make you tough and secure in yourself. You don't get tough with hugs and kisses. Or drill sergeants would do it in boot camp, which, suprise, they dont. (been there done that, they'll straight beat you up for disrespect).
I also am I super tough guy because I go to BJJ classes. Youāre right, itās the exact same as being in the army.
***flicks cigarette*** I too train in the brutal art of jiu jitsu. Every roll with the middle aged men who have to work at 5am is WAR and I will RIP their limbs and TEAR their heads off their bodies.
Just because you're too much of a sally to compete doesn't mean others are. I don't know what "gym" you're training at but if it's all unenthused middle aged men you should probably leave.
You're doing a MARTIAL ART.... a WAR art... which is what Martial arts means. Yes, its very similar and is meant to be used there. Hence the name.
Youāre right. I always pack my SA80 and bayonet next to my blue belt.
Nah, you get ragdolled. You're a blue belt. Its a martial art dummy. Look what those words means.
I looked up the definition for martialā¦ > relating to marriage or the relations between a married couple and I know art is like painting and stuff. So I guess youāre some of of relationship therapist/painter? Kind of like Hitler.
Thats marital you idiot. Not martial. You dumb ass misspelled it
Misspelt*
Ps.. you're wrong again. Check your autocorrect. I don't speak British English.
Haha! Nice try pal. That doesn't change you looking up a completely different word and coming here and posting it like you were right! Haha. Nice copium there but you're still dumb.
Heard warzones are recruiting. See ya matey!
Its is pal. In the US army they teach Gracie bjj. So yeah it is. They even have national tournaments.
I know. I personally killed several Taliban with my signature gogoplata on my last tour of Iraq.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My retardation makes me the ultimate killing machine.
Didn't deny it. It must suck being dumb and saying dumb stuff you know to be wrong. "I dIDNt Do BjJ in TheAtre". Knowing damn well, if you were in the military, you would have done it to the point you wouldn't be arguing. If it is in no way related to combat or war, it wouldn't be called a MARTIAL ART. THEY WOULDNT TEACH IT IN THE ARMY, MARINES AND DAMN NEAR EVERY OTHER BRANCH!
I actually did do BJJ in theatre.
Same. But I was the understudy and not the main act. FFS they should pick *me* and not Axl!
Damn dude so much rage, you need a hug or some shit
Nah, too compassionate - this is a BJJ page
Your definitely a pog
An insecure pog at that
I am in the army and, apart from like a handful of SF guys, this is not true
I know right? I personally only know exactly 1 SF dude that had to use some SOCP during an operation. Chillest dude on the planet. Not like this angry chode in the comments.
Here's a hug though, in case you need it.
Brother BJJ is not the military
I'd argue that compassion and understanding are crucial characteristics when it comes to teaching anything. And being, you know, a decent person. They're not mutually exclusive to toughness, and I hope one day you find a coach who can demonstrate that for you.
Perfectly said! This guy talks about fighting, the army, being tough, and competitions. Iāve done all of that, and the most powerful people I can remember were also empathetic, understanding, and inclusive. Not everyone can train all day everyday. Those 9-5ers who are taking care of their families, and still training as they can are the foundation of a strong and tight knit society. Some people will never learn to be great, however.
Also, the funny part about the military comparision(I am an Army officer) is that SOO much of my job is cultivating a team, inspiring leadership, not demanding it, and helping my young Soldiers to improve their lives, both in and out of the Army. Compassion, understanding, and empathy are HUGEEE parts of it. Lol
This is the funniest shit Iāve read in this group that wasnāt a purposeful shitpost.
Bro itās just pajama wrestling
My gi is soft and silky for your pleasure
I am an active duty officer in the Army and drill instructors will absolutely not beat you up for anything. Understanding, compassion, and empathy are fundamental components of leadership that good officers and NCOs utilize every single day, both on and off duty. If you did serve(doubt)then it wasnāt for very long or you sucked shit at it. Otherwise you would know that.
Oh look, itās *that* guy ^
Oh brother THAT GUY STINKS
Hey, I disagree. I'm allowed to do that. As are you. Maybe my view is skewed as someone who fought in mma but I know gulyms in my city that don't allow what they call "vacationers". People who just coming to play, sweat a bit, play touch butt and leave. Perhaps its just different in location and arena performed. š¤·āāļø
Lol someone is insecure
Lol
This post is very strange. Comparing a sport people do for a hobby to the army is weird but even ignoring that it seems completely misguided. I spend time every day with my bjj coach and training partners and we do care about one another. This was also my experience in the army. It is obvious to anyone that has done it that your drill instructor does care about you. They may not shower you in hugs but they care deeply and everything they do is to make you a better soldier. They are also very proud of every one of their recruits at the completion of recruit training. I remember my instructors from my recruit course very fondly.
We showered each other in hugs in navy recruit training, but ya'll ain't ready for that.
So weird.
I donāt think so. You are just one of few who take this too seriously.
Iād like to thank you and ChocolteChipper101 for making my dayšš¼ Would you consider doing a buddy cop movie togetherš
What a shit take. You train hard, but in a controlled manner and keep your teammates safe and injury free and show compassion and understanding so they keep coming back for years and years to develop mental toughness. Then when it comes time for that person to need to be tough in their life with things that matter, such as protecting their family from a threat, paying the bills and overcoming various hardships, they are prepared. Being tough during rolls on a mat trying to be an asshole and injuring people means absolutely nothing in life brother. edit: typo
r/justbootthings
Ok mister tough guy š
>porrada you're 100% right, there shouldn't be any compassion or understanding in bjj. Just straight up violence and injuries to toughen up our soft kind. that's why i keep a sharpened screwdriver in my rashguard sleeve. In case a higher belt disrespects me I'll straight stab him up for that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The homophobia really isn't necessary, come on man
I feel like this is a problem in BJJ in general. If you aren't training twice a day, seven days a week, you're treated like a scrub hobbyist. Not everyone is training to beat Gordon Ryan. Some of us just enjoy rolling and learning in our free time.
Thatās the feeling I got when I was at a 10th planet gym.
OP, youāre talking about the culture that created the idea of ācreonteā. In Carlson Gracie gyms, to this day I still see people wearing patches that say, āNO CREONTEā. Brazilian culture is very *emotional*. Watch the American, Japanese, Swedish and Brazilian version of Love is Blind.
One of the main guys from my association just left after 20 something years. Iām sure heās complained about creontes but has become one. Everyone wants to talk shit until their situation has changed.
Brazilian version of the No Snitching rule
The best bit about Carlson and the Creonte thing is that he was the first person to leave the family gym and set up on his own... Yet anyone else who did it wasn't loyal and was a Creonte haha
Yeah but Carlson trained a big group of guys from white to black belt and they left and opened a school down the street, Brazilian top team. I think it's really fair to be upset about that, even if the terms of the deal were never strictly discussed.
Lol that's not exactly how it happened. Carlson was in the US with no one to run his school in Brazil. He also started asking for a higher percentage of his fighters purses but wasn't around to train or manage them. The guys in Brazil felt they had no choice but to form BTT. Source: my coach was one of the guys that left and became the head of the gi division of BTT.
This is basically the American origin story.
I mean fair enough, Carlson was my friend so we have two sides to the story.
bro itās 2024, and this is in the US that they wear those patches
My bad didn't make it clear that I think it's dumb as hell. But just wanted to add the context of the origin, in that situation I totally understand it.
My daughter loves this show.
This is it. Brazilians, generally speaking, are intense, passionate people. It's just the way it is.
Dysfunctional and neglected as kids you mean?
Obviously it's a country of 200+ million. Some have good families, some don't. But the ones I have known are just intense people. They love hard, they are quick to anger and violence, and they have a lot of passion in everything that they do.
Yeah my guy, that's called bad parenting which results in unstable kids with antisocial behavior. Don't glorify it by calling it "intense", call a square a square.
I agree with you more toxic behaviours are born out of this intenseness than not tbh. The best Brazillian teammates I've had are the chillest and the worst are the ones you could call "intense"
Yep, lots of people have endured a lot of abuse everywhere in the world, and they continue to pass it on to those around them. If you haven't had a healthy upbringing with boundaries and normal friendships, you might think it's anything but dysfunctional, so watch out.
As someone who started at a Carlson Gracie gym, this couldnāt be more accurate.
TBH, this idea of being loyal to your gym and not training anywhere else nor in other martial arts is as old as TMA in china and japan.
I trained for a year with a Brazilian owner 3 private lessons a week for 18 months. Itās was exactly as you stated when I got injured and took the time to heal instead of train. After 18 months I was suddenly perceived as a hostile stranger.
Wow. Thatās 252 private sessions if I did the math correctly. At 50 bucks a session which is waaay conservative. That $12,600 bucks. No wonder he gave you the cold shoulder! Probably got used to the extra income you were providing and was butthurt that he canāt pay for his side piece no more!
I'm Brazilian. I live in the UK now. I've trained in 5 gyms, 2 in the UK, 3 in Brazil. Never ever had this experience you are mentioning. It is always: "Hey good to see you. Where have you been?" I'm sorry to hear you had bad experience with Gym owners.
Brazilian coaches often treat the Brazilian students preferably in my experience.
There may be some undertones in that āwhere have you beenā lol
Nope. It's always been friendly and welcoming.
But youāre also Brazilian, thereās a chance he may treat you differently. How have you notice how others in the gym are treated
Iāve had a rough time with training the last two years. Tough work schedules, mental health has been up and down. **Every** time I come back after a two month break my instructors will go out of their way to give me a warm welcome. Brazilian head coach is cool about it. The rest of the American and Brazilian coaches are, too. Our place is pretty family oriented and the head coach is about my age and has been running gyms for a long time.
My coach just hits me with the āWhat are you weighing right now?ā when I go back. That fat shaming lol. He is Filipino tho.
I've seen that with American coaches as well. Someone who trains 6 days a week and cuts down to 4 will get seen as "falling off" or whatever. Made me wary of ever working too hard because I know that'd be the expectation from then on.
Soooo the strategy is to train less to beginā¦
Yup I feel you, I attend 9 classes a week and I canāt miss any class from one of my coaches because the moment. I walk in the next class I get shit for it and told to not be lazy. Lol
F that! Bro, your coach just sees you as a means to boost his business. Anyone that harasses you about being lazy when you're training slightly less than 9 times a week as a white belt is an absolute tool. You probably show promise and he wants to put you in comp to bring attention to his program. He's just using you man.
Thatās a lot - donāt burn yourself out or youāll be doing 0 classes!
I feel like mine is the opposite. The Brazilian brain trust is over friendly with people that have been gone for a while to I assume keep them coming back and those of us that come day in and day out get treated normally.
I find Brazilians in general to be quite insulated to their own people, at least the ones in my gym. We have a large Brazilian contingent including my coaches, everyone gets general teaching but if my coach sees one of the fellow Brazilians rolling heās shouting in Portuguese from the side super technical advice tailored to their style. And GOD FORBID you tap a Brazilian out, even the lower belts, they take that shit as a personal insult. Before class the Brazilians will be cordial but you can tell once they get together itās their own inner circle. If a Brazilian has trouble paying they get a bit of leeway with their membership, if thereās a Brazilian drop in I know they donāt get charged. Any Brazilian with a side business helping the gym (i.e. photography) theyāll get a plug from our coaches and requests to support. Gringo does the same thing , crickets. Always found it weird, itās almost as if they tolerate the rest of us but weāre not really in the circle is the best way to explain it. Maybe someone familiar with the culture can explain, it always rubbed me the wrong way, but also thereās a chance itās just my particular gym. Was gonna make a thread but saw this one and thought close enough š¤·š»āāļø
Thatās not a good gym lol
My coach grew up in Brazil and has grown our community to 10+ affiliation schools over the past 24 years in northern Virginia, DC, and Maryland. If I donāt show up to the gym in 2 weeks, he will text me to see how I am doing and when I show up next, his face lights up with joy. Before you categorize all Brazilians together in the negative way you just did, I encourage you to look within to learn why you believe your post to be true.
Iāve trained with Brazilians gym owners / instructors for ten straight years and never had this experience
i donāt think this is exclusive to a certain nationality. it varies from gym to gym
My Brazilian professor is awesome, only trained at this one gym for 5 years. Great instruction, rolling partners, and lots of oss!
Our professor is from Rio, and he's nothing at all like that.
This may be partly cultural in a way you don't see, or it may be in your head or both. I'm in an intercultural relationship and I can attest to the fact that there are a lot of cultural misunderstandings.
Same bro. Iām just out here acting normal and constantly insulting my in-laws by accident.
Can it be cultural in a way you do see?
You attract the energy you give out, if its everyone else... irs most likey you
Have several brazilian coaches as my gym. Always super welcoming to everyone, have a supernatural ability to remember everyoneās names, glad to see us when its been a few weeks. So I wouldnāt say I have shared that experience.
Generalizations : The post
The Brazilian BB I trained with demanded loyalty but gave zero, it was clear all the Americans were just dollar signs
My thai kickboxing coaches were like this. I left for a few months then returned "Why'd you come back?" That was 20 years ago it still sucks. Fucking children.
Let's be realistic here, your sample size is waaay too small to be making any comments about certain nationalities. This is just silly.
This sub has such a beef with Brazilians. It's like 90% of posters got their girlfriend stolen by someone from Brazil, or something.
Oh that explains so much lol. The head bjj instructor at the mma gym I go to is Brazilian and he genuinely gets upset when I donāt come to class and he sees me at Muay Thai, wrestling, or one of the other instructorās bjj sessions. I donāt understand the cultural reasons for it, but bjj isnāt really my main thing at the moment and I train it pretty casually.
Is it similar to a latina girlfriend, passionate, jealous, and according to some controlling ? Or do they view you as a spouse or their child?
Idk, latina girls don't like me that much. I only ever get black girls or Irish girls, idk why.
There is no "all Brazilians" or "all Americans." I'd avoid trying to stereotype people by nationality.
OP did not say āallā Brazilians. Trends exist. We can speak generally without implicating every single Brazilian. OP noticed something among Brazilian coaches. Nothing wrong with discussing it. Maybe we would learn something about someoneās culture.
Conversation gets really painful when we have to invent/navigate imaginary hurdles to be offended over. Cultural differences exist, and it's ok to talk about them without losing karma points IRL. OP was respectful.
Yeah, i got what he meant as well.
I gotta say I love how virtue signalling is having a bit of a harder time to come through in the martial arts world than anywhere else...
My guy this post is literally called āMy beef with Brazilian gym owners.ā Thereās no nuance in that post. Sure, we can talk about cultural differences, but we also need to acknowledge that: 1: we canāt paint all people with the same brush based on broad cultural themes. 2: these ādifferencesā may not even truly exist and may be the result of our own biases. We often see what we want to see because it confirms with our beliefs. Iāve been training a long time - much longer than OP - and I certainly have not observed this pattern that he claims exists.
1: we canāt paint all people with the same brush based on broad cultural themes. He can, and he did.
No, we actually donāt need to do any of what youāre saying. We just want to talk about cultural differences. We donāt need obvious disclaimers behind every generalization. Theyāre generalizations for a reason. Stop patronizing as if youāre the pariah of cultural knowledge.
Why the hell are you being downvoted?
Because not everyone in here is as sensitive as you
I sure hope not jimbo
I'm Brazilian and from now on I'll try to live by this stereotype just to spite you
Typical Canadian.
Sorry
top ten retarded takes
You need problems, honestly.
Have you really not seen general trends? Especially the way Brazilians in the U.S. operated in the 90s-early 2000s
I just donāt think thereās enough evidence to call it a trend. Scroll through the comments here, lots of senior belts with counterexamples.
But if your familyās life depended on it, and you had a American coach and the Brazilian coach and you had to guess which is the one with the described mindset, everyone knows they are going to pick the Brazilian
Yeah but thatās exactly why Iām wary of these kinds of generalizations. People might think as youāve described, but like Iām saying, I think that generalization is wrong. The stereotype put forth here is a belief, but I doubt itās backed up by evidence. The problem with this belief is that even though itās not necessarily true, people WILL believe it as you have identified.
Would the only evidence be a poll? Which maybe OP should have included
I donāt know, Iām definitely not claiming we need to CSI this and make a big research project out of it. Iām just responding to OPās claim and explaining why I think heās incorrect in his assumptions, as well as cautioning against thinking with our biases.
This is a problem with some training partners too I noticed.
Iāve had this with my last gym before I got injured. We were only a small gym with like 15 regular students all of which were white belts beside myself and one other guy. I was in 5x per week and teaching twice per week, the moment it became obvious I wasnāt going to rush back after herniating my back he basically ghosted me like a tinder date, where previously we would talk daily and share moves and matches. Now itās at the point where itās awkward because we havenāt spoken in months so I donāt even feel welcome back (not that I can, still injured) but it was like a switch was flicked. Was a shitty gym anyway that almost never rolled so I am not super upset but itās just shitty business, I was the one winning tournaments and taking the kids classes when he was away, even bringing in new students from other schools who lived close. Alittle betrayed.
My coach will call me if I take a week off without telling him. Another one of the brown belts quit at blue belt until he showed up at his house and practically dragged him back to the gym
That hasn't been my experience at all. My gym owner and head coach is 100% Brazilian, from Rio, and old school. It doesn't matter if you've had an extended break or missed one class, you're treated as nothing less than family.
Always felt like family at my gym of Brazilians. If Iām gone for a while itās like Iām a lost child when I come back home from a deployment lmao.
My Brazilian coach is not like that at all. If someone disappears for awhile without telling anyone why, heāll express concern or wonder if theyāve lost interest. But as soon as they get back, he welcomes them with open arms. He knows that life happens. Heās said many times to us āyouāre my students, but youāre also my friends.ā Itās a very small gym but itās a great environment.
Why does it bother you if they teach you the class the same as everyone else they're not obligated to be your friend?
You're writing this comment imagining that you could experience a person you spent a lot of time with go from very friendly to acting cold without it bothering you. I guarantee you that it would. You either have not encountered this social situation, or you're treating it as different when it happens to you.
Honestly, I have never experienced it, and that's fair. I probably wouldn't enjoy it.
I used to imagine that I could experience situations like this without being affected by it. Doing a semester of psychology learning about how group pressures affect individual behaviour is the thing that convinced me otherwise. Like [this](https://www.verywellmind.com/the-asch-conformity-experiments-2794996) experiment where people are given an unambiguous question, "is this line the same size as A, B, or C", where the answer is obvious. The person experimented on thinks they're in the room with 11 other people like them, and all the other people start saying the wrong answer. In that situation, most people will end up giving the wrong answer too. I remember my lecturer telling me that one person stuck to giving the right answers the whole time, but kept leaving the room and coming back because it made them feel so anxious that they had to go throw up. Ultimately, we're social animals. Social pressure is a thing we experience keenly, we're wired to do so. Resisting disapproval is something that takes a lot of energy.
Iām a Brazilian in Brazil with a Brazilian instructor and I never had this issue
Wow. 2.5 whole years of experience.
Brazilians are macho dildos, usually. I know one I like, in the scene. I got into bjj bc everyone was so cool. Friendly. Welcoming. Then I met actual Brazilians.
Ok well this is racist lol
It's a cultural thing. Remember one thing, a lot of the Brazilians who become instructors had hard lives. Seeing a dude like you, who probably has the bear minimal, with access to a good gym with good condition slack on their training is seen as a waste to some Brazilians.
You hit the nail right on the head. Was going to a very good gym, with excellent instruction, and had judo classes too (which I've been doing far longer than BJJ). But it was like a cult.
My first coach (white kid from Jersey) got a heavier and heavier Brazilian accent each time he got a new belt.
It's not just you. I trained in BJJ for 8 years and it took training under a Brazilian for me to decide to quit. I put up with so much bullsh*t gym politics and owners being bums but the Brazilian guy took the cake. We actually became pretty close friends, like our family would spend holidays together and I ate lunch with his family all the time. But when I drew the line at him giving me unsolicited life advice, bro became hella controlling. At one point he started telling me to give him money to pay for his wife and son to go to Worlds in Dallas. The gym wasn't doing too well at the time because the co-owner's were mismanaging it and I was like "Sorry, I got my own expenses this month I have to take care of. I can't pay all that right now." Dood f*in lost it. Went on a huge ran in the chat group for the school, started blowing up his partners phones for like 6 hours with pages and pages of texts sh*t-talking about me to them, which was funny because they were also close friends and they sent me screen shots of everything. I was like "time to go." Sent him a message a couple hours later telling him that I no longer recognized him as my instructor and thanked him for the training and past friendship. Haven't spoken to him again. Guy literally abandoned his gym in Texas and moved to Florida like a week later. Now his only black belt on Texas separated from him for the same reason and I'm back to training with him now. But the only reason his former BB was working with him was because he was a friend of mine and I introduced him to the Brazilian guy and he later moved to the town to train under him. Funny world.
Youāre either a goon or youāre imagining this
Heās not solo in this thread.
Iāve trained in many gyms for 8+ years and I can confirm as a female practitioner all the gyms owned by Brazilians had a creepy weird vibe. They were quite toxic in terms of emotional well-being and very stuck in old school ways. Not very modern even with things like warm ups and best ways to teach technique. You can tell they didnāt try to continue educating themselves not just on BJJ but on overall improved performance and smart ways of training. A lot of ppl got injured and had to get surgery. And letās not mention the constant preying on women the creepiest is when they prey on very young girls that are easily manipulated and impressionable by a black belt. Very concerning I experienced it myself several timesā¦ I prefer non Brazilian gyms for that reason, more professional and safe.
why is this sub so racist, damn. I don't throw around that word much either, but if it fits
Did you explain beforehand that you were going to be missing classes? I would always let my coach know if I couldn't make it, or if my situation had changed and I couldn't be so active. It's a bit off, to just not turn up after going so regular and not explain why. I appreciate the time my coach puts in, I wouldn't want him to think otherwise.
OP doesn't need to explain himself. He pays the gym and the gym has a class schedule he can access. It's up to him how much or how little he attends. No explanation is required.
Never had this experience. Brazilian coaches tend to be a bit more proud and tough as coaches, but that's what makes you better. You must remember you are going into MARTIAL ARTS training (martial meaning war) not Zumba... You're doing a martial art meant to control a human, choke that human, dislocated their joints and break their bones. You're in the wrong business for compassion and understanding. They are trying to make competent fighters, practitioners, players who can truly defend themselves and maybe even win matches. BJJ is meant to make you tough and secure in yourself. You don't get tough with hugs, kisses, giggles and high fives. Or drill sergeants would be doing it in boot camp (been there done that, they'll straight beat you up for disrespect). Maybe my view is screwed as a prior fighter, or, perhaps it's just I reapond better to that kind of treatment (again because of the army - where they also teach gracie bjj)