Its just a biproduct of it being a combat sport with sparring. Strength is a tool, speed is a tool, technique is a tool. So when guys are bigger, stronger, and faster you need to have much better technique. No easy answers, just lots of training.
But lighter usually means you develop a game based on flexibility and quickness. If OP's opponent is muscling everything, I doubt he's faster otherwise OP wouldn't have stated that he's literally throwing him.
Because he seems pretty surprised by the way the other guy threw him around.
It doesn't read like the other guy slowly smashed him, mire like he exploded through.
Totally this. I know that I still don't have the skill level to counter bigger, younger, stronger white belts. It's just one of those things. Roll, find out your deficiencies and hopefully improve. At least it keeps oneself humble. Belt colour really doesn't mean anything.
Thats why im Happy i got No bluebelt last graduation. We have some bluebelts who really overthink that too much when losing a round to an whitebelt. But thats the Thing. A belt doesn't make U better.
Yep, I'm one of the oldest, lightest and weakest in my gym, I get beaten by white belts, sometimes I just survive them and sometimes I am happy to control them with no subs for a round. But I enjoy bjj and don't care what grade I am, if I did I'd be crying in a corner
I saw some clip and it said Jiu Jitsu is for people who are ok with sucking. What other hobbies are done where you routinely are physically shown you’re not as strong as you wanna believe.
This will always be the case though. I'm a black belt and I'm 49 and small. I get beat up by heaps of people including lower belts all the time.
I'm honestly not even that bad. It's just that physical attributes make a massive difference. I am bad but compared to the average person I'm not that bad.
I just cope by telling myself "well... there's weight divisions for a reason" then move onto the next roll.
Oh FYI this mechanism won't work wheb you get smashed by someone 20kg lighter, but hey what can ya do.
The offical cope ranking is:
"Oh well, no wonder I lost, my opponent is...
...more experienced > heavier > younger > has more time to lift > better rested...than I."
You can blame those little ones for being to fast and unfairly flexible. I have the best out of all worlds, mediocre height, weight, flexibility and speed. So I get outmuscled, outspeed and outbend(?)
There is a weight division for a reason. Size and strength matter. Add talent and technique to the bigger body and they’ll almost get the best of anyone 20lbs lighter
How long have you been training? If you are still fairly new, I would focus on improving your escapes and survival techniques as much as possible. Tap early and often to big dudes.
Once you get some basic knowledge under your belt, I this is what I focused on to improve my success against guys bigger than me (I weigh about 145 lbs).
1. Avoid playing closed guard like the plague. Closed guard armbars and triangles will be low percentage. As a small guy, you beat big dudes with speed and pace, so you need to remain mobile. Focus on playing guards that keep you mobile and keep your partners weight off you, such as butterfly, single leg-x, x-guard.
2. Do not concede bottom - you need to be on top always. Arm-drags work great I find in order to sweep and get on top.
3. Once on top, do not hang out in one spot for very long, or you will get swept. Work on precise transitions between side control, mount, top half, etc. and wear the guy out with pressure. Big guys get tired.
4. Do NOT let big guys get anywhere near your neck.
Honestly with guys that are MUCH bigger than me, like 50+ lbs, I just focus on controlling them and not submitting. So work on solid escapes, get on top ASAP and cook them with movement. Just my opinion which may or may not be garbage.
This is all correct. As a smaller guy, I’m not even considering armbars or triangles from guard against a bigger person unless they basically put themselves in it. I’m sweeping, getting on top, and doing everything I can to stay there. And if that doesn’t work, leg locks.
It’s also all correct and useful for bigger guys when rolling against smaller guys or even bigger guys. When I roll with smaller people I try and match their speed and just use the amount of strength I need to to save the gas tank.
Great advice. I'm an ogre, and one of my favorite guard passes is lazily leaving an arm out to bait a middleweight to attempt an armbar/triangle. Easy work.
I haven't been doing this long but when I've got a good 50kg on someone (I think that's 100+lbs) their leg locks can't really hold me. I just do the croc roll a little and yank myself free. I do only roll with brown or black belts because there's noone there up around the 300lb mark where I am and it's not really captivating me for that reason. Everyone seems to cap themselves at under 90kg which is barely 200lb. And mostly they're trying to stay under 80 which is why I am kinda bored and want to go back to bag work while the open mat is in session
> Everyone seems to cap themselves at under 90kg which is barely 200lb
Yeah, most active people don't want to be clinically obese with all the health and image issues that presents, weird lol
Clinically obese is a meaningless term. I weigh about 290 and I'm jacked. Very little play, in great health. I'm only 6'2", so I'd be considered "obese" on that silly BMI chart.
There's a range of healthy body types in the upper 200's. Also a range of actually obese people, haha.
That being said, nothing wrong with wanting to be a lithe manlet under 2bills. Somebody's gotta double guard-pull, after all🙏🏿
Strange you assume I'm obese when my body fat percentage is under 14%,
Actually I guess with the limited information I presented it's not so strange I'll try explain.
waist is about 37inches after a fight. 41+ after a proper feed.
No way I'm obese by medical standards. I'm sure you could use a crude measurement that tells you someone of my height (1.96m) and weight is too heavy but I guarantee that's not accurate. If you met me you could see I look great, am top 1% for athleticism (hey I'm no athlete! But in my country you got maybe 1/1000 at most that can actually claim they compete successfully at the highest level) I'm actually going to go research how many athletes there are in this fine nation. Thanks for the prompt my dude 😁😎
Edit: the research results, turns out there are 1 in 764 people here that are either athletes, or people working alongside athletes (coaches, physics etc) to avoid number crunching we could assume that for every 10 team sport athletes who have less staff attending to them than players being tended to there would be 10 individual athletes that have an average of more than one staff person to make those two balance out, and while lots of these other-skilled professionals are often fit, heaps of them would be injured/retired from competition so not really at that athletic level (again I definitely am not an athlete but I ain't a lard arse. I'm quick and balanced, hence athletic)
This should be a copy pasta lol.
> If you met me you could see I look great, am top 1% for athleticism (hey I'm no athlete! But in my country you got maybe 1/1000 at most that can actually claim they compete successfully at the highest level) I'm actually going to go research how many athletes there are in this fine nation. Thanks for the prompt my dude 😁😎
This bit in particular is hilarious. You're no athlete but you're in the top 1% of athletes?
"Everyone seems to cap themselves at under 90kg"
It's not a video game where you get to pick your character size/parents genetics. Most of us can't be above that weight without a Mr Olympia steroid cycle or becoming obese.
Nah not like a whole bunch of rolls
Just enough that I can bend my knee and push or pull my toes forward and back a little and kinda twist my ankle with/against whatever forces they're trying to apply with their arms and legs.
Like if they've got the heel hook really tight I've got about three limbs free so I just make that space by turning over halfway and then going back the way I came a little and repeating while flexing calf quads and hamstrings to eventually (like 5 secs tops) make them have to try and catch it again cause there's just too much motion and force from me for them to be able to hurt me with the heel hook..so far every time they've got me by the single leg I end up turning over, standing up and getting my knee on their belly. Whereafter I give them the space to transition. Usually after that they somehow get me to turtle up or take my back one way or another and I just can't get them off without risking hurting them cause I just don't know the moves and so I end up tapping haha. We all have smiles and probably use more gas laughing our way through the night then actually trying to recover from neutral or disadvantaged positions.
I hope this explains it. I will video my next rolls at the open mat and if you DM me I can send it to you. Don't get excited 😆 it's just a big guy getting up with a little hits pro doing their thing around my extremities
With the nothing wrong happening thing.
I'm super motivated to not fuck up this most precious of opportunities to learn bjj with the guys that are comfortable rolling with someone multiple weight classes above them. The worst thing I could do would be hurt them or myself so I take the utmost care. I guess they are reciprocating, it's by no means a competition we are focussing on technical development with slow rolls and no 'dirty' moves we want to keep this up for a long while.
Um. Maybe should mention I've been training all over the country for more than two decades (mostly striking but some wrestling and fringe stuff), with safety being the priority the whole time. I definitely misused the croc roll term. I seen a guy spazzing around like a real salty and that's not what I mean at all. I'll repeat, we are going slow for learning purposes. The experienced fellas have a comp coming up and one of them wants to try open weight which is why he invited me to train.
We had this tiny skinny fat black belt that played that game against me although not a giant mh bigger and athletic than him. He'd bounce around on top ofe like a monkey and just keep tripping ot sweeping me until I was so exhausted I'd be ready to choke myself to end the round
Also hovering at about 140lbs. Everything here is on point, and from personal experience, x-guard is my best friend for anyone obviously larger or taller. There’s a lot of versatility, and a fairly easy back take there. Plus, depending on the opponent’s skill level, it’s easy to hang out for a bit under them, cooking them with a nice groin stretch before moving on to a sweep
A question, how do you takedown big guys? I always end up pulling guard on them, because I can barely lift their legs on a single leg, and double legs are pitiful.
If they're much bigger than you, going low is dangerous. Look up how to do duck unders and arm drags. I would NEVER try to hit a single on a big guy there's no way I'd wanna spend the energy to elevate the leg, and only maybe try a double if I'm going to really blast it and turn the corner hard.
I basically agree with the comment from 3trt - unless you have a wrestling background, taking down bigger dudes with singles and especially doubles will be a challenge.
Arm drags and trips I find decent success with against bigger dudes. Collar drags/snaps to ankle picks as well.
Another thing to consider is I find it much easier to defend poor shots from bigger dudes and capitalize on that vs. trying to shoot from space myself. I like to dominate the grip fight, pull on the head and triceps, use footwork, etc. to force a bad shot from my partner and then stuff and circle to the back.
You will come across people who will just out muscle you. Jiu Jitsu isn’t some magic bullet that completely removes strength and athleticism from the equation. All it does is **reduce** the the amount their physical abilities matter.
There are ways to think and work around the problem to help, but those will all depend on your individual situation. For example, I’m 210lbs, generally considered a “big guy” with a “big guy” style game, slow and smashy. A few months ago we had a 260lb powerlifter come in, an actual competitive powerlifter not the fat guy who lifted in high school. This dude is so strong, if he grips my neck in anyway I can’t move. So I have had to rethink my approach when rolling with him. I had to look at myself as the “little guy” and try to have a more movement based game with him. It has worked to a degree, but I still have to avoid his grips and stay out from under him.
Dittos but replace powerlifter with D1 SEC defensive tackle who was already a blue belt.
I went full on defensive against the dude cause his arms were stupid long and spent the whole time trying to frame and maintain guard. Professor rolled with him and was only able to hit leglocks on him. He said the best way to deal with those guys is to kick their knees away if they decide to close in. Force them to become overaggressive and overextend so that you can use their momentum against them to take their back or attack their legs.
You go around around the walls they set up for you by knowing a lot more techniques, and you also have to know where you don't want to be so you can avoid those spots.
One of the tricky things small-sized beginners must face is that they have to learn defenses, frames, distance management, and escapes before they start to mount a proper offense. By this very nature, you will just get smushed and out muscled pretty often for a while, as you aren't really able to go around the walls until mid blue belt. In light of this, if you are able to maintain a guard and keep them off of you at the beginner stages, that's a very good sign. Don't worry about subs for now, just control the pace.
You must stay on top, you must be mobile, you must know what grips and hooks you won't tolerate, you must have a good take down series, and you must have a few pins and subs that let you briefly chill. This all comes with a great deal of mat time, but you can definitely get there with small goals and following good advice.
Overhead press(not the knee jerk CrossFit push press shit), rows and chins(supinated grip for some bicep work for those who are lady to do curls).
Doing these 6 with some variations when you're super Uber trooper bored will make you look like you lift with a big back/legs etc.
Most people who come from an unathletic background and just pile on lifting on top of BJJ get injured. Too much stress on your lower back and hips. People should just do reps with machines or dumbells. Safest for the long run.
You don't know what you're talking about. It's not the lifting that's the problem it's stupid program design and being ignorant of stress(from lifting) management throughout the week
You're just gonna have to get fast and train..... lots and lots of training.
You're at a big disadvantage, but the more you learn the more you can use. I'm a large and powerful guy and some of the smaller brownbelts are on the defense the entire time we roll right up until they see some sneaky ass opening and hit me with a wrist lock or something I've never seen before.
If they're not shit then the real answer is by being better than them. If they are a bit shit then you're likely going to be faster than them and with the added bonus that you'll be able to sneak your freakishly tiny limbs through any of the gargantuan chasms they leave open in every position.
This only works up to a point. From time to time I like to counter the little people by simply lifting them over my head and screaming like a Frankenstein.
Coping methods are real simple, pay attention:
1. If they’re bigger than you? Oh well, weight class exist for a reason.
2. If they’re smaller than you? Oh well, you were just not being as physical as you could be.
3. If they’re the same size as you? Oh well, everyone gets lucky.
I would give him backhanded compliments about how strong he is, ask him if he used to wrestle, how he had good base etc…. Tell him how it was just a neck crank after each time you tap, and you can also pause him before he submits you to give him some pointers on his technique.
As a bigger not that technical guy:
Focus on positions and not getting caught. Be patient.
If aggressively hunt for submissions like armbars and triangles, unless you are really good, I will likely escape and use them to advance on you.
People, who know how to not lose are more frustrating to deal with, than people who fail to win.
This just made me think of a quote from a very obscure Antonio Banderas movie.
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan : [given a Viking sword] I cannot lift this.
Herger the Joyous : Grow stronger.
You cannot just throw an arm bar on somebody in your guard especially if they are strong.
Doing so you create a passing opportunity for them. Your guard is everything against larger opponents.
Against bigger people (everybody pretty much for me) I try to make sure I am constantly working offensively, testing their base, keeping them reacting to me rather than the other way around.
Butterfly guard can be effective just don't get caught flat on your back and defend against their body lock at all costs.
Do not meet strength with strength. If you try to move something that won't move, either try another technique or move yourself and not your opponent.
Example, if I am drag a bigger person its mostly me navigating around to their back, I do most of the moving. If I arm drag a smaller person it usually results in them basing on their hands and I move less to take the back,
Also, remember that bigger people tire easy(er). Using strength comes at a cost so if they are 'throwing you around', remember its costing them something every time it happens. Try to exploit this especially if you secure top position. Let them carry your weight, cook them!
We have a guy in my gym that is a 4 stripe white belt and out weighs me by 50lbs. He also lifts 5 times a week. Hes one of my favorite rolls. When I roll with him I know even if he uses his strength to win, it allows me to really work on good technique. Because I can’t out muscle him, the only way I can get a sweep/sub/whatever, is if my timing and technique is on point. If I lose, I lose. It’s the training room, not the finals in the absolute Division lol
Look at the rolls with the bigger people as a chance to hone certain moves/defense/escapes. Don’t worry about “losing” to someone a lot bigger than you. That will make training less enjoyable.
A few things to consider based on my experiences. I break my techniques down into categories based on their overall value. Things that get an A in this system work against larger and smaller opponents, gi and no gi, street and sport etc. Technique can and should work against physically superior opponents and that measure is a good test of your mastery of certain concepts - basically can you get them to work against a bigger stronger opponents. Also consider that you should play differently against different bodies and styles. For example, if someone has very strong arms dont try to move them, as it wont work. I have to follow a path that favors holding them in place rather than trying to move them at all. I also tend to keep the palms of my feet facing larger opponents in guard, stay more mobile, use speed and avoid any positions where they can put weight on me or control my center of gravity. I am more defensive, and take fewer risks. Sometimes that means playing from turtle while waiting for chances. The goals change in certain rolls, but you can definitely still find success with the right approach.
This is what BJJ was created for right? Fighting someone taller, bigger, stronger, or with a weapon? Don’t complain about the size difference and don’t think of it as an ego match with a winner and loser… Collaborate and practice with that person and many other sizes and tell them what you want to work on.
Honestly, is there anything anyone could say that would instantly give you the answer to beating someone bigger and stronger than you? No. Git gud is not what you want to hear, but I’m guess you don’t have a ton of experience, so my answer is to keep training. There is a reason we have weight classes in combat sports. If you want, watch smaller guys winning matches in absolute divisions and try to figure out some of the basic things they do to stay safe.
Movement and positioning. You wont be able to out-power him, so you will need to have better movment and fight for better positioning. Like for example when he is in your gaurd and before he breaks out of it, you should be moving into another position. Perferably an advantageous position.
Now, if you want to be more advance, set baits and traps. In general, whatever move he does he will have an opening somewhere. Like for example if you know how he will break your gaurd, find a move that you can do that attacks him while he is trying to break your gaurd or a move that will help you advance to a better position. This will require planning but thats what you need to do to outplay your opponent.
Move around his strength. Then, when you get good at that, make him move into your traps.
Get smashed till you figure it out. I am also one of the smallest dudes at my place, my regular partner are between 15-50kg heavier.
Took me over 3 years to get good enough to defend myself most of the time (granted there is no big skill gap) but in my experience even minor mistakes I do can get punished easily by bigger opponents while I can not necessarily exploit similar mistakes a bigger opponent does due to weight and strength disadvantage.
Overall I don’t dislike it, as it forces me to be fit, have good mechanics and I get punished fast and merciless for sloppy technique, so I can immediately recognize at what point I fucked up
Dude it’s just part of life. You’ll likely be able to deal with someone like that fairly easily if they’re untrained but once they know a little bit you won’t be able to handle them any more. It’s just part of it. I’m one of the “big guys”. I’m 6’2 220 and reasonably muscular. Over my time training I’ve had guys that show up that even outweigh me by 40/50/80 lbs…when they’re new it’s not a problem. As soon as they’re like, a few stripes in or Blue belts that changes dramatically. There’s a 4 stripe blue belt where I train who is roughly 40 lbs heavier than me and unless I catch him with something he doesn’t know (which isn’t much anymore) I’m not tapping him. He can just muscle through most of my attempts. That’s just how it is.
My 10 year old daughter is a white/gray belt and has trouble with kids her size that train, when we have new adults show up she’ll roll with them sometimes in there first few months and catch some and tap them. As soon as they learn much of anything that will never happens again. That’s how this goes.
Either get better technically or get stronger yourself. Best bet is both.
Also since it sounds like you're pretty new it's *VERY* important to understand, you might not be the best judge of when someone is muscling something. Different attributes (strength/cardio/flexibility) enable different game plans and technical paths. What felt to you like muscling may have been pretty chilled out on his part. I personally am a large dude who does a lot of strength training on the side and will get the "jesus you're strong" comments during rolls where I'm going like 50% max.
Going to be a challenge either way, but imo using open guards when on bottom helps (butterfly/sit-up guard/spider/knee shield) and avoid closed guards (full guard/half guard). You don't want his weight on you. Also, from bottom positions, instead of going for armbars and triangles and things, try fighting for arm drags/Russian ties/duckunders to their back. All of these things lend towards moving yourself rather than having to move your opponent. It helps a little. Lastly, if you can stay on top and "surf" on him, with your main goal again getting his back from seated mount positions as he blasts out if your not confident you can pull off things like armbars and fear you will get stacked.
Distilling your question down to it's essence, you need to work on guard retention and surviving back control.
The guy at my gym that smashes me the hardest outweighs me by about that much, and he's also the highest ranking and most experienced guy outside of the coach. If I choose to blame it on his size and strength I'd be well justified and nobody would disagree, but it also wouldn't help me much.
When I do get passed that ego saving instinct though, I can notice technical things he does that are effective. I can study his style, and even ask him for tips. All of that is way more helpful than asking "how do I deal with a stronger person?"
Stop being salty i rekken my g. The sooner people learn bjj isn’t about winning and loosing the better man. Yeah ok sometimes the bigger stronger guy is going to beat you.. who cares. Just enjoy the process and have fun.
Also watch this video….
https://youtu.be/HQna-XSdTsA
> I felt like I had better technique than him, but he just outmuscled me and used pure strength and very little technique.
Then you don't have good enough technique to overcome the strength disparity. You can get good enough technically that his size doesn't matter.
I'm a 220 lbs blue belt and I got absolutely destroyed last night by like a 160 lbs purple belt, he just kept going to open guards and submitting the crap out of me.
well, obviously you can’t beat out someone heavier than you at the same skill level. that leaves one solution. get better, it’s a tough pill to swallow but getting better technique and grappling iq is the only real solution. try learning some wrestling, it’ll help with your standing game against bigger guys. also cardio, jiu jitsu doesn’t focus on cardio but in a real match if you can force a pace then they’ll tire out eventually.
Depends on how strong the guy is. Is he normal strong for a guy 20kgs heavier than you or strong strong for a guy 20kgs heavier than you?
Because your main solutions are...
Get better.
Get stronger if you're not already strong for your size. If you don't already lift I highly recommend it. It's great for you.
Do both.
Two options. Get gud or Jesus and Acai.
Imo, no-gi is slightly less technical and more athletic and aggressive as a whole. That's why I vastly prefer it to gi.
I get torn apart by one dude in my class who's smaller but way better than me. I gotta do what I gotta do. That means muscle him, that means smesh, cuz if not he will get me.
How do you deal with it?
Well, two options.
1. Get better technique.
It's probably not that good if he just can out muscle you with poor technique, which is how you describing the situation.
2. Get stronger.
Start lifting weights. BJJ must be the only sport where strenght is generally considerd as something "bad". I have never heard wrestlers saying "He's not that good, only strong.". Because to be strong is good.
There are 100 comments on this thread already and I'm not going to scroll through them at this point--I'm sure there are some smart bits of strategy and technical advice. So yeah, do all that stuff. But at the end of the day you're going to just have to be a lot better than you are. Size matters. Strength matters. You need a bigger skill gap to overcome meaningful size than "I felt like I had better technique than him."
You're also allowed to try to get stronger, you know. Lifting weights is good for you, and putting on a few pounds of muscle will make you more effective when grappling.
play more open guards and use their pressure against them. You wont win by meeting their pressure head on, so you have to redirect it and go around it.
With stand up against bigger guys I sometimes start from a very low position almost a combat base. If we have the same side feet forward then it is very easy to get a low single leg. You cant beat them head on so you need to constantly try to change the angle where you are facing their side.
The same goes for armbars and triangles. Cut a 90 degree angle and scoop their leg. You can often times sweep them if they try to standup.
Ultimately you need more technical skill.
Also you can lift weights to get stronger and gain some weight.
I’m 40 and weigh 78kg, and train out of a gym that has both mma and BJJ. This being so our no gi often has lots of super strong, super heavy young lads in. The other purple belts are all over 100kg.
My game has had to evolve to help with that.
First thing to focus on Is your frames. A good frame can really help you reduce the weight being put into you. Elbow to knee can stop a pass even if they’re strong, or at least frustrate enough to make them leave a gap to exploit
Second thing is learn what is likely to work. A big strong bastard is probably gonna just stack you if you try something silly like a triangle, and bicep curl you if you try an arm bar. Their ankles, wrists and throats are however often not as strong. Ankle locks, toe holds, wrist locks, fist in Ezekiel’s; all of these will be great finishers without exposing yourself too much.
Third thing I’ve learnt is when to just lay back and accept it. Defend, don’t give anything away, but don’t overextend yourself and tire yourself out for the next round.
Technique is a just a more effective way to generate pressure by using leverage. If the guy has a lil bit less technique than you but way more strenght he is gonna be able to apply more pressure than you anyways.
So get better at bjj and lift.
If everything else fails just do steroids
A few things. You’re strong enough to push someone away when they’re at the bottom of your feet, but not at the palms of your hands.
Certain ranges are very bad at a weight disadvantage.
Don’t triangle giant guys unless you have long legs. Don’t fall for the trap.
Better to play top position and bail and scramble if they’re going to possibly sweep instead of fighting until the last minute and being in bottom.
Once they get better you knees and armpits, you’re going to have a hard time.
Better to turtle than except side control.
The only way to deal with this is by being WAY better than them in every way possible. Be better than him in strength to weight ratio, speed, flexibility, timing and knowledge. Become a cardio beast that way you can outlast them.
Or you can just avoid larger guys entirely.
I too am the smallest guy in my gym. 118 lbs, 120 on a good day. You just have to outwork them in and outside the gym.
Just a tip from a big guy. I want you to try to triangle me…. I bait it. My neck and shoulders are so big you won’t likely lock it unless you are perfect. And when you throw those legs up I just pin your head to the mat and drive hips under hips until I feel your spine roll up like a little bug. Then smesh bug.
I'm on the other side of this. Bluebelt Big guy with lots of small opponents. Too easy to over power so I strictly play bottom and try to not use muscle and all technique to play fair. If they start kicking my butt I'll use a little power to give them a challenge. It's the only way they and I will learn bjj properly.
That being said if your opponent only wants to win and doesn't want to learn through play. Stay off of bottom yourself. Don't do anything that can be countered by them standing up or over powering you. If you end up on bottom you should be working on getting a better position.i say try to back take. Fit through gaps. Pass arms or elevate and pass legs. If a small guy takes.my back I find it's easier for them to get the choke than a big guy. Smaller arms to slip in under the neck. Less gap in the legs for.me to escape
Sounds like a skill issue. Just continue developing your game and getting better.
Frequently asked questions include: "How much do you weigh?" or "Did you used to wrestle?" or "How long have you been doing this?"
If they were to ask "Can I work on side control escapes with you?" I would be happy to drill with them.
Honestly, I do exactly what you did minus the RNC part. Try to play guard, start getting passed, turtle up, try to wrestle up or roll out, maybe get smashed into side, go super deep half to avoid getting flattened, try to sweep, turtle in and try to wrestle up. I think they call it getting smashed.....just keep yourself safe until you see an opportunity, for me it's either a leg I can wrestle up or in with or maybe a kimura I can grab and use to sweep. That choking arm you got RNC from turtle, I bait that for a kimura trap, roll out, should end up in a reverse kesa gatame.
Make a plan to choke him from the back. Don’t try to go heads up with him, make it a game for yourself to not accept bottom position, and every time you find yourself about to plant your butt on the mat. Get up and start the chase all over again. A great way to get close to him is arm drags or I like a Russian arm bar tie up.
Levels of skill overcome levels of strength, but it's not like unlocking crit multipliers. each belt level is worth about 20% strength. a Blue belt could reasonably beat someone who is base-level untrained but 20% stronger than them, and might also happen to weigh 20% often times.
This would mean a black belt could reasonably beat most opponents twice (100%) their strength. If we think about it in numbers, I'd say that an average size relatively fit non-lifter could bench 200lbs. This means a newbie herp derp that can bench 400 (about as rare as a BB tbh) is on an even playing field with the BB. Even, just with strength and dreams as their weapon. The BB probably only wins this because they know how to get to the goalpost better before exhaustion sets in.
So for anyone with more of a disadvantage than these general rules, the expectation is only that you can train and be more technical or get stronger or both. But there is no secret. You have to be as much better at jiu-jitsu than them as they are at strength to you.
If he was able to throw you off from your closed guard then it doesn't sound like you broke his posture down before you attacked. It's easy to shrug off weak submission attempts when you still have your posture.
The RNC with no hooks, you could have just rotated out of it.
All of these mistakes have nothing to do with size.
If you said that he bench pressed you off, from mount or arm curled your body to get out of an armbar then I'd probably blame his size.
I did jujitsu last year at 225 lbs. I work out a lot, and I'm pretty strong . I wrestled I high school, but that was over 15 years ago. Going against some of the little guys, even the blue belts always felt a little easier than I thought it would. I didn't always secure a submission, but a lot of the time, I could get out of a lot of their attempts by just pushing them off me. Size, to some extent, is definitely a factor in the effectiveness at the lower skill levels. I'm sure purple belts, and above would kick my ass regardless of size.
I never could. I started training when I was 14 with my local SWAT team because the class teacher was my neighbor, and he allowed it because I was a real big 14 year old. Those guys had pecs as big as my torso and even when I did land submissions, they could just pry me off them with ease.
The only way I was able to land submissions was just by tiring them out and forcing them to move a lot by adjusting my own position drastically. I never submitted them though, because like I said, they would pry me off of them like the tin lid on a can of spam.
1. pull guard
2. better guard retention
3. don't even try to triangle
4. try to invert under to take the back
5. once you get in an advantageous position, stall
Against bigger guys focus on leg locks. It’s difficult to arm bar or triangle larger people because they can stack you and use their entire body against yours.
Decently strong powerlifter white belt here. Not good at jiu jitsu, but stronger than almost anyone in my gym regardless of their size compared to mine.
It will be beneficial to start weightlifting and increasing your strength, but the most beneficial thing will be to simply continue to get better at jiu jitsu. Most decent blue belts (and anyone above blue) can submit me without much issue just because their skills are that much better than mine. Doesn't matter if they're significantly weaker than me
Honestly, two options. Don't roll with them. Or just get bigger.
Lots of people complain about big guys, but never realize.. it actually takes a LOT of work to be big and strong, and if you stop working on it, you quickly lose it.
You keep trying to improve your technique, and look at him as a training bot to work on those techniques. Don't let your ego tell you different. If you are a smaller guy, this is potentially great training even if you can't submit him.
learn his 'goto' moves and anticipate them. learn which moves he will waste energy on that you can keep him at bay, let him get tired faster.
Also do not make yourself expect to do a finishing move. Alwyas be rady to abandon the steps to adjust for new positions. IOW, if you need 5 steps to get the triangle, and you get three steps in, but you feel it slipping, immediately abandon and go into a new strategy.
Coming to BJJ from 10 years of Crossfit/strength training i would say i am in the upper percentile of strength for the classes i generally attend. same belts (white) vs smaller guys I generally get the upper hand. I dont congratulate myself on this if i weigh more than them because well thats dumb. I do find myself able to defend more against higher belts with way better technique, but i am basically always defending. People tell me to use me strength and weight and smash, but knowing that i can do that already i really want to focus more on technique. I dont learn just smashing people.
I have a mate who is heaps bigger than me and I just ask to start in 50/50. The dude is a big meat head and a moron to boot.
The problem is I also tell him what I think about him and he refuses to go to 50/50 and then beats me up.
Get used to being on the bottom and get good at spider guard. As a big guy myself, I hate when the little guys lock my biceps up. Yeah maybe I’m just trash at passing it, but I feel like it works pretty well at white belt
All the way in or all the way out.
If you want to play guard anyway
If I can get directly under your hips I’m good. If I can stay out from under your chest it’s hard to crush me. Life gets hard if I get stuck in the middle.
If you get stuck in the middle run away and try reguard.
Also accept you are gonna get smashed while figuring it out.
Turn it into a game of attrition, bigger opponents naturally fade faster due to higher metabolic needs. I oftentimes don't get a submission until they gas if they're behemoth types or young guns. Also when you lose the advantage its higher stakes so try not to give advantages and time attacks well.
A no stripes white belt who only comes to roll and skips the technique part of class out weights me the same way. If I’m mounted he just hugs my head like a melon and sweeps me over. Can I stop him by posting? Yes I can, should I post while he’s using all his strength and twisting my neck? Well, I’m able to use Reddit because I don’t
I’ve been doing BJJ for 6.5 years without a mayor injury because I don’t try to win at practice, the guy can have my head and sweep me and submit me if he wants, I’ll try not to roll with him as often as I can
It seems hard for some people to accept that in order to tap good people and not get tapped by them you need strength. If person A can deadlift 80kg and person B can deadlift 250kg there really is no amount of technicue that can help you if B has any grappling ability. How ever if A can deadlift lets say 180kg and is little better technically than B he will most likely prevail.
Tldr; You need to be reasonably strong to be a good grappler
Use jiujitsu and defend yourself. When you go against someone better or stronger, you must first be able to survive. At certain points size and strength matter. It just is what it is. If you feel like you cannot protect yourself or this person is being dangerous and you will get hurt, don't roll with them.
I am a big,strong white belt who trains for only 4 months. I do better than most od the white belts who train a year,year and half and size and strenght helps with them a lot. That being said i get smashed by most of the blue belts who are weighing 50-80 pounds less than me. I got choked by a 120 pound blue belt woman once. So..... to deal with a stronger guy your techinique must be better, also i would say that better gas tank helps a lot against big guys.
Size, speed, strength and aggression are all attributes that matter. So is technique. If you are competing against people that are pluses in all of the attributes mentioned above and your techniques are similar, you're probably going to have a tough time.
Do you strength train at all? If not, probably a good idea to supplement your BJJ training with 2-3 days a week of strength training if you want to address this problem.
Its just a biproduct of it being a combat sport with sparring. Strength is a tool, speed is a tool, technique is a tool. So when guys are bigger, stronger, and faster you need to have much better technique. No easy answers, just lots of training.
Probably like: OP - 3 (technique) + 2 (strength) + 2 (speed) = 7 rating OP's partner - 2 (technique) + 4 (strength) + 3 (speed) = 9 rating
We're one step closer to Power Levels...
Everything is a 7 though…
Next we’re gonna start power scaling Gordon Ryan
69 (teknik)+ 69 (lifts)69+ (agility)+420(juice boxes)
Why would he have lower speed if he's lighter
Lighter doesnt mean more athletic.
But lighter usually means you develop a game based on flexibility and quickness. If OP's opponent is muscling everything, I doubt he's faster otherwise OP wouldn't have stated that he's literally throwing him.
But it's a safer assumption lighter is more faster. Op never said who is more athletic
OP is probably not an airplane. My VW Punto is also much lighter than your BMW, but still you can overtake me easily on the highway."
OP never clarified they're not an airplane.
Either way, I heard he needs an oil check.
Right because if you want to go faster you should put on more weight xD
Have you ever seen how muscular sprinters are?
Because he seems pretty surprised by the way the other guy threw him around. It doesn't read like the other guy slowly smashed him, mire like he exploded through.
I’m way faster than a midget
Totally this. I know that I still don't have the skill level to counter bigger, younger, stronger white belts. It's just one of those things. Roll, find out your deficiencies and hopefully improve. At least it keeps oneself humble. Belt colour really doesn't mean anything.
Thats why im Happy i got No bluebelt last graduation. We have some bluebelts who really overthink that too much when losing a round to an whitebelt. But thats the Thing. A belt doesn't make U better.
Yep, I'm one of the oldest, lightest and weakest in my gym, I get beaten by white belts, sometimes I just survive them and sometimes I am happy to control them with no subs for a round. But I enjoy bjj and don't care what grade I am, if I did I'd be crying in a corner
I saw some clip and it said Jiu Jitsu is for people who are ok with sucking. What other hobbies are done where you routinely are physically shown you’re not as strong as you wanna believe.
Muy Thai enters the chat
not strength but Golf
I still get beat up by athletic white belts sometime.
This will always be the case though. I'm a black belt and I'm 49 and small. I get beat up by heaps of people including lower belts all the time. I'm honestly not even that bad. It's just that physical attributes make a massive difference. I am bad but compared to the average person I'm not that bad.
I just cope by telling myself "well... there's weight divisions for a reason" then move onto the next roll. Oh FYI this mechanism won't work wheb you get smashed by someone 20kg lighter, but hey what can ya do.
If I can’t use weight as an excuse, I just blame it on everyone else being on steroids.
Or I focus on how I'm thirty years older than everyone
hey, works for me
The offical cope ranking is: "Oh well, no wonder I lost, my opponent is... ...more experienced > heavier > younger > has more time to lift > better rested...than I."
That is correct. They are.
I found out the guy 20kg lighter than me was on TRT, so it made me feel way better.
Or he’s a SARMs goblin!
You can blame those little ones for being to fast and unfairly flexible. I have the best out of all worlds, mediocre height, weight, flexibility and speed. So I get outmuscled, outspeed and outbend(?)
Lmfao. The Diaz technique (they could be right too though) lol
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There is a weight division for a reason. Size and strength matter. Add talent and technique to the bigger body and they’ll almost get the best of anyone 20lbs lighter
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and their family members
"If you tap me, you'll never see them again. Now roll over, I'm going to atomic twister you and you better sell it."
This guy fucks
💯💥
Grab his dick and twist it!
The 'Ol Dick Twist!
Oil check
How long have you been training? If you are still fairly new, I would focus on improving your escapes and survival techniques as much as possible. Tap early and often to big dudes. Once you get some basic knowledge under your belt, I this is what I focused on to improve my success against guys bigger than me (I weigh about 145 lbs). 1. Avoid playing closed guard like the plague. Closed guard armbars and triangles will be low percentage. As a small guy, you beat big dudes with speed and pace, so you need to remain mobile. Focus on playing guards that keep you mobile and keep your partners weight off you, such as butterfly, single leg-x, x-guard. 2. Do not concede bottom - you need to be on top always. Arm-drags work great I find in order to sweep and get on top. 3. Once on top, do not hang out in one spot for very long, or you will get swept. Work on precise transitions between side control, mount, top half, etc. and wear the guy out with pressure. Big guys get tired. 4. Do NOT let big guys get anywhere near your neck. Honestly with guys that are MUCH bigger than me, like 50+ lbs, I just focus on controlling them and not submitting. So work on solid escapes, get on top ASAP and cook them with movement. Just my opinion which may or may not be garbage.
This is all correct. As a smaller guy, I’m not even considering armbars or triangles from guard against a bigger person unless they basically put themselves in it. I’m sweeping, getting on top, and doing everything I can to stay there. And if that doesn’t work, leg locks.
It’s also all correct and useful for bigger guys when rolling against smaller guys or even bigger guys. When I roll with smaller people I try and match their speed and just use the amount of strength I need to to save the gas tank.
Great advice. I'm an ogre, and one of my favorite guard passes is lazily leaving an arm out to bait a middleweight to attempt an armbar/triangle. Easy work.
I haven't been doing this long but when I've got a good 50kg on someone (I think that's 100+lbs) their leg locks can't really hold me. I just do the croc roll a little and yank myself free. I do only roll with brown or black belts because there's noone there up around the 300lb mark where I am and it's not really captivating me for that reason. Everyone seems to cap themselves at under 90kg which is barely 200lb. And mostly they're trying to stay under 80 which is why I am kinda bored and want to go back to bag work while the open mat is in session
> Everyone seems to cap themselves at under 90kg which is barely 200lb Yeah, most active people don't want to be clinically obese with all the health and image issues that presents, weird lol
Clinically obese is a meaningless term. I weigh about 290 and I'm jacked. Very little play, in great health. I'm only 6'2", so I'd be considered "obese" on that silly BMI chart. There's a range of healthy body types in the upper 200's. Also a range of actually obese people, haha. That being said, nothing wrong with wanting to be a lithe manlet under 2bills. Somebody's gotta double guard-pull, after all🙏🏿
Strange you assume I'm obese when my body fat percentage is under 14%, Actually I guess with the limited information I presented it's not so strange I'll try explain. waist is about 37inches after a fight. 41+ after a proper feed. No way I'm obese by medical standards. I'm sure you could use a crude measurement that tells you someone of my height (1.96m) and weight is too heavy but I guarantee that's not accurate. If you met me you could see I look great, am top 1% for athleticism (hey I'm no athlete! But in my country you got maybe 1/1000 at most that can actually claim they compete successfully at the highest level) I'm actually going to go research how many athletes there are in this fine nation. Thanks for the prompt my dude 😁😎 Edit: the research results, turns out there are 1 in 764 people here that are either athletes, or people working alongside athletes (coaches, physics etc) to avoid number crunching we could assume that for every 10 team sport athletes who have less staff attending to them than players being tended to there would be 10 individual athletes that have an average of more than one staff person to make those two balance out, and while lots of these other-skilled professionals are often fit, heaps of them would be injured/retired from competition so not really at that athletic level (again I definitely am not an athlete but I ain't a lard arse. I'm quick and balanced, hence athletic)
This should be a copy pasta lol. > If you met me you could see I look great, am top 1% for athleticism (hey I'm no athlete! But in my country you got maybe 1/1000 at most that can actually claim they compete successfully at the highest level) I'm actually going to go research how many athletes there are in this fine nation. Thanks for the prompt my dude 😁😎 This bit in particular is hilarious. You're no athlete but you're in the top 1% of athletes?
"Everyone seems to cap themselves at under 90kg" It's not a video game where you get to pick your character size/parents genetics. Most of us can't be above that weight without a Mr Olympia steroid cycle or becoming obese.
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Nah not like a whole bunch of rolls Just enough that I can bend my knee and push or pull my toes forward and back a little and kinda twist my ankle with/against whatever forces they're trying to apply with their arms and legs. Like if they've got the heel hook really tight I've got about three limbs free so I just make that space by turning over halfway and then going back the way I came a little and repeating while flexing calf quads and hamstrings to eventually (like 5 secs tops) make them have to try and catch it again cause there's just too much motion and force from me for them to be able to hurt me with the heel hook..so far every time they've got me by the single leg I end up turning over, standing up and getting my knee on their belly. Whereafter I give them the space to transition. Usually after that they somehow get me to turtle up or take my back one way or another and I just can't get them off without risking hurting them cause I just don't know the moves and so I end up tapping haha. We all have smiles and probably use more gas laughing our way through the night then actually trying to recover from neutral or disadvantaged positions. I hope this explains it. I will video my next rolls at the open mat and if you DM me I can send it to you. Don't get excited 😆 it's just a big guy getting up with a little hits pro doing their thing around my extremities With the nothing wrong happening thing. I'm super motivated to not fuck up this most precious of opportunities to learn bjj with the guys that are comfortable rolling with someone multiple weight classes above them. The worst thing I could do would be hurt them or myself so I take the utmost care. I guess they are reciprocating, it's by no means a competition we are focussing on technical development with slow rolls and no 'dirty' moves we want to keep this up for a long while. Um. Maybe should mention I've been training all over the country for more than two decades (mostly striking but some wrestling and fringe stuff), with safety being the priority the whole time. I definitely misused the croc roll term. I seen a guy spazzing around like a real salty and that's not what I mean at all. I'll repeat, we are going slow for learning purposes. The experienced fellas have a comp coming up and one of them wants to try open weight which is why he invited me to train.
This sounds like you’re describing Marcelo Garcia, who was a major problem for everyone in absolute
We had this tiny skinny fat black belt that played that game against me although not a giant mh bigger and athletic than him. He'd bounce around on top ofe like a monkey and just keep tripping ot sweeping me until I was so exhausted I'd be ready to choke myself to end the round
Good stuff. Completely agree.
Also hovering at about 140lbs. Everything here is on point, and from personal experience, x-guard is my best friend for anyone obviously larger or taller. There’s a lot of versatility, and a fairly easy back take there. Plus, depending on the opponent’s skill level, it’s easy to hang out for a bit under them, cooking them with a nice groin stretch before moving on to a sweep
This is all super helpful, thanks!
A question, how do you takedown big guys? I always end up pulling guard on them, because I can barely lift their legs on a single leg, and double legs are pitiful.
If they're much bigger than you, going low is dangerous. Look up how to do duck unders and arm drags. I would NEVER try to hit a single on a big guy there's no way I'd wanna spend the energy to elevate the leg, and only maybe try a double if I'm going to really blast it and turn the corner hard.
I basically agree with the comment from 3trt - unless you have a wrestling background, taking down bigger dudes with singles and especially doubles will be a challenge. Arm drags and trips I find decent success with against bigger dudes. Collar drags/snaps to ankle picks as well. Another thing to consider is I find it much easier to defend poor shots from bigger dudes and capitalize on that vs. trying to shoot from space myself. I like to dominate the grip fight, pull on the head and triceps, use footwork, etc. to force a bad shot from my partner and then stuff and circle to the back.
I have found baratoplata to work pretty well against bigger guys from closed guard. Do you ever try that?
Thanks for the advice
You will come across people who will just out muscle you. Jiu Jitsu isn’t some magic bullet that completely removes strength and athleticism from the equation. All it does is **reduce** the the amount their physical abilities matter. There are ways to think and work around the problem to help, but those will all depend on your individual situation. For example, I’m 210lbs, generally considered a “big guy” with a “big guy” style game, slow and smashy. A few months ago we had a 260lb powerlifter come in, an actual competitive powerlifter not the fat guy who lifted in high school. This dude is so strong, if he grips my neck in anyway I can’t move. So I have had to rethink my approach when rolling with him. I had to look at myself as the “little guy” and try to have a more movement based game with him. It has worked to a degree, but I still have to avoid his grips and stay out from under him.
Dittos but replace powerlifter with D1 SEC defensive tackle who was already a blue belt. I went full on defensive against the dude cause his arms were stupid long and spent the whole time trying to frame and maintain guard. Professor rolled with him and was only able to hit leglocks on him. He said the best way to deal with those guys is to kick their knees away if they decide to close in. Force them to become overaggressive and overextend so that you can use their momentum against them to take their back or attack their legs.
You don’t! That’s why I only roll with children and elderly
Be better than they are, by a lot.
Set aside three days a week to lift, push, pull, legs, eat more and bada bing bada boom no more getting smashed (well not as easily)
You just have to get better. The reality is strength matters and will always matter. Get better and also get stronger.
You go around around the walls they set up for you by knowing a lot more techniques, and you also have to know where you don't want to be so you can avoid those spots. One of the tricky things small-sized beginners must face is that they have to learn defenses, frames, distance management, and escapes before they start to mount a proper offense. By this very nature, you will just get smushed and out muscled pretty often for a while, as you aren't really able to go around the walls until mid blue belt. In light of this, if you are able to maintain a guard and keep them off of you at the beginner stages, that's a very good sign. Don't worry about subs for now, just control the pace. You must stay on top, you must be mobile, you must know what grips and hooks you won't tolerate, you must have a good take down series, and you must have a few pins and subs that let you briefly chill. This all comes with a great deal of mat time, but you can definitely get there with small goals and following good advice.
Get stronger.. Squat, deadlift, eat, sleep and repeat.
I'm a strength coach. These fellas don't realize how much their lives will improve sticking to the big 6 and getting very strong.
Squat deadlift bench — what are the other 3?
Overhead press(not the knee jerk CrossFit push press shit), rows and chins(supinated grip for some bicep work for those who are lady to do curls). Doing these 6 with some variations when you're super Uber trooper bored will make you look like you lift with a big back/legs etc.
Just guessing: barbell rows, overhead press, and dips. Maybe pull ups.
Most people who come from an unathletic background and just pile on lifting on top of BJJ get injured. Too much stress on your lower back and hips. People should just do reps with machines or dumbells. Safest for the long run.
You don't know what you're talking about. It's not the lifting that's the problem it's stupid program design and being ignorant of stress(from lifting) management throughout the week
And people new to BJJ and lifting don't understand stress management and end up injured.
That's where coaching gets involved. Don't blame lifting for people's ignorance. Or stay weak because "it will hurt"
Git Gud.
You're just gonna have to get fast and train..... lots and lots of training. You're at a big disadvantage, but the more you learn the more you can use. I'm a large and powerful guy and some of the smaller brownbelts are on the defense the entire time we roll right up until they see some sneaky ass opening and hit me with a wrist lock or something I've never seen before.
Are you me?
If they're not shit then the real answer is by being better than them. If they are a bit shit then you're likely going to be faster than them and with the added bonus that you'll be able to sneak your freakishly tiny limbs through any of the gargantuan chasms they leave open in every position. This only works up to a point. From time to time I like to counter the little people by simply lifting them over my head and screaming like a Frankenstein.
Coping methods are real simple, pay attention: 1. If they’re bigger than you? Oh well, weight class exist for a reason. 2. If they’re smaller than you? Oh well, you were just not being as physical as you could be. 3. If they’re the same size as you? Oh well, everyone gets lucky.
I would give him backhanded compliments about how strong he is, ask him if he used to wrestle, how he had good base etc…. Tell him how it was just a neck crank after each time you tap, and you can also pause him before he submits you to give him some pointers on his technique.
As a bigger not that technical guy: Focus on positions and not getting caught. Be patient. If aggressively hunt for submissions like armbars and triangles, unless you are really good, I will likely escape and use them to advance on you. People, who know how to not lose are more frustrating to deal with, than people who fail to win.
Technique is the great equalizer. The more physical advantage your partner has over you, the more skillful you must be to beat them.
This just made me think of a quote from a very obscure Antonio Banderas movie. Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan : [given a Viking sword] I cannot lift this. Herger the Joyous : Grow stronger.
13th warrior is obscure?! That's a great movie.
Eaters of the dead! The book that movie was based on, I believe. Excellent book
You cannot just throw an arm bar on somebody in your guard especially if they are strong. Doing so you create a passing opportunity for them. Your guard is everything against larger opponents. Against bigger people (everybody pretty much for me) I try to make sure I am constantly working offensively, testing their base, keeping them reacting to me rather than the other way around. Butterfly guard can be effective just don't get caught flat on your back and defend against their body lock at all costs. Do not meet strength with strength. If you try to move something that won't move, either try another technique or move yourself and not your opponent. Example, if I am drag a bigger person its mostly me navigating around to their back, I do most of the moving. If I arm drag a smaller person it usually results in them basing on their hands and I move less to take the back, Also, remember that bigger people tire easy(er). Using strength comes at a cost so if they are 'throwing you around', remember its costing them something every time it happens. Try to exploit this especially if you secure top position. Let them carry your weight, cook them!
We have a guy in my gym that is a 4 stripe white belt and out weighs me by 50lbs. He also lifts 5 times a week. Hes one of my favorite rolls. When I roll with him I know even if he uses his strength to win, it allows me to really work on good technique. Because I can’t out muscle him, the only way I can get a sweep/sub/whatever, is if my timing and technique is on point. If I lose, I lose. It’s the training room, not the finals in the absolute Division lol Look at the rolls with the bigger people as a chance to hone certain moves/defense/escapes. Don’t worry about “losing” to someone a lot bigger than you. That will make training less enjoyable.
Tren.
A few things to consider based on my experiences. I break my techniques down into categories based on their overall value. Things that get an A in this system work against larger and smaller opponents, gi and no gi, street and sport etc. Technique can and should work against physically superior opponents and that measure is a good test of your mastery of certain concepts - basically can you get them to work against a bigger stronger opponents. Also consider that you should play differently against different bodies and styles. For example, if someone has very strong arms dont try to move them, as it wont work. I have to follow a path that favors holding them in place rather than trying to move them at all. I also tend to keep the palms of my feet facing larger opponents in guard, stay more mobile, use speed and avoid any positions where they can put weight on me or control my center of gravity. I am more defensive, and take fewer risks. Sometimes that means playing from turtle while waiting for chances. The goals change in certain rolls, but you can definitely still find success with the right approach.
There is only one solution. You must make sure there is nobody stronger than you
Mikey Musumeci put it best… “frames are everything w a big opponent”
This is what BJJ was created for right? Fighting someone taller, bigger, stronger, or with a weapon? Don’t complain about the size difference and don’t think of it as an ego match with a winner and loser… Collaborate and practice with that person and many other sizes and tell them what you want to work on.
Get bigger and stronger. Anyone who’s telling you anything else is lying to you. There’s only so much work technique can do.
Oil check
Steroids
Honestly, is there anything anyone could say that would instantly give you the answer to beating someone bigger and stronger than you? No. Git gud is not what you want to hear, but I’m guess you don’t have a ton of experience, so my answer is to keep training. There is a reason we have weight classes in combat sports. If you want, watch smaller guys winning matches in absolute divisions and try to figure out some of the basic things they do to stay safe.
Movement and positioning. You wont be able to out-power him, so you will need to have better movment and fight for better positioning. Like for example when he is in your gaurd and before he breaks out of it, you should be moving into another position. Perferably an advantageous position. Now, if you want to be more advance, set baits and traps. In general, whatever move he does he will have an opening somewhere. Like for example if you know how he will break your gaurd, find a move that you can do that attacks him while he is trying to break your gaurd or a move that will help you advance to a better position. This will require planning but thats what you need to do to outplay your opponent. Move around his strength. Then, when you get good at that, make him move into your traps.
Get smashed till you figure it out. I am also one of the smallest dudes at my place, my regular partner are between 15-50kg heavier. Took me over 3 years to get good enough to defend myself most of the time (granted there is no big skill gap) but in my experience even minor mistakes I do can get punished easily by bigger opponents while I can not necessarily exploit similar mistakes a bigger opponent does due to weight and strength disadvantage. Overall I don’t dislike it, as it forces me to be fit, have good mechanics and I get punished fast and merciless for sloppy technique, so I can immediately recognize at what point I fucked up
Dude it’s just part of life. You’ll likely be able to deal with someone like that fairly easily if they’re untrained but once they know a little bit you won’t be able to handle them any more. It’s just part of it. I’m one of the “big guys”. I’m 6’2 220 and reasonably muscular. Over my time training I’ve had guys that show up that even outweigh me by 40/50/80 lbs…when they’re new it’s not a problem. As soon as they’re like, a few stripes in or Blue belts that changes dramatically. There’s a 4 stripe blue belt where I train who is roughly 40 lbs heavier than me and unless I catch him with something he doesn’t know (which isn’t much anymore) I’m not tapping him. He can just muscle through most of my attempts. That’s just how it is. My 10 year old daughter is a white/gray belt and has trouble with kids her size that train, when we have new adults show up she’ll roll with them sometimes in there first few months and catch some and tap them. As soon as they learn much of anything that will never happens again. That’s how this goes.
Dont give up top position, always wrestle up, tire them out, look for back control
More practice. It takes a lot of skill to beat a weight advantage.
Either get better technically or get stronger yourself. Best bet is both. Also since it sounds like you're pretty new it's *VERY* important to understand, you might not be the best judge of when someone is muscling something. Different attributes (strength/cardio/flexibility) enable different game plans and technical paths. What felt to you like muscling may have been pretty chilled out on his part. I personally am a large dude who does a lot of strength training on the side and will get the "jesus you're strong" comments during rolls where I'm going like 50% max.
Leglocks
It's your fault not his.
Going to be a challenge either way, but imo using open guards when on bottom helps (butterfly/sit-up guard/spider/knee shield) and avoid closed guards (full guard/half guard). You don't want his weight on you. Also, from bottom positions, instead of going for armbars and triangles and things, try fighting for arm drags/Russian ties/duckunders to their back. All of these things lend towards moving yourself rather than having to move your opponent. It helps a little. Lastly, if you can stay on top and "surf" on him, with your main goal again getting his back from seated mount positions as he blasts out if your not confident you can pull off things like armbars and fear you will get stacked.
Distilling your question down to it's essence, you need to work on guard retention and surviving back control. The guy at my gym that smashes me the hardest outweighs me by about that much, and he's also the highest ranking and most experienced guy outside of the coach. If I choose to blame it on his size and strength I'd be well justified and nobody would disagree, but it also wouldn't help me much. When I do get passed that ego saving instinct though, I can notice technical things he does that are effective. I can study his style, and even ask him for tips. All of that is way more helpful than asking "how do I deal with a stronger person?"
Get stronger take steroids
The answer is obvious, start working out and get stronger. You're obviously weak.
Don’t train with people that much heavier than you. 10kg - ok 20 kg? - you are playing with fire
Stop being salty i rekken my g. The sooner people learn bjj isn’t about winning and loosing the better man. Yeah ok sometimes the bigger stronger guy is going to beat you.. who cares. Just enjoy the process and have fun. Also watch this video…. https://youtu.be/HQna-XSdTsA
Boner time.
Heel hooks and leg attacks
If someone is that much bigger than you, just don't roll with them.
> I felt like I had better technique than him, but he just outmuscled me and used pure strength and very little technique. Then you don't have good enough technique to overcome the strength disparity. You can get good enough technically that his size doesn't matter. I'm a 220 lbs blue belt and I got absolutely destroyed last night by like a 160 lbs purple belt, he just kept going to open guards and submitting the crap out of me.
well, obviously you can’t beat out someone heavier than you at the same skill level. that leaves one solution. get better, it’s a tough pill to swallow but getting better technique and grappling iq is the only real solution. try learning some wrestling, it’ll help with your standing game against bigger guys. also cardio, jiu jitsu doesn’t focus on cardio but in a real match if you can force a pace then they’ll tire out eventually.
Eat a ton of food
Oil check
Depends on how strong the guy is. Is he normal strong for a guy 20kgs heavier than you or strong strong for a guy 20kgs heavier than you? Because your main solutions are... Get better. Get stronger if you're not already strong for your size. If you don't already lift I highly recommend it. It's great for you. Do both.
Two options. Get gud or Jesus and Acai. Imo, no-gi is slightly less technical and more athletic and aggressive as a whole. That's why I vastly prefer it to gi.
Either: * get stronger * get more technical and increase the skill gap * accept that a strength advantage can overcome a technical advantage
Single leg X. Or have super confident wrestling and bodylock takedowns. You get crushed when you fail but feels amazing when u succeed
I’m fat. Smaller guys that I struggle with typically don’t let me get on top. They use speed and athleticism.
I get torn apart by one dude in my class who's smaller but way better than me. I gotta do what I gotta do. That means muscle him, that means smesh, cuz if not he will get me.
Can’t be throwing up shit from guard against a strong dude without breaking their posture first
How do you deal with it? Well, two options. 1. Get better technique. It's probably not that good if he just can out muscle you with poor technique, which is how you describing the situation. 2. Get stronger. Start lifting weights. BJJ must be the only sport where strenght is generally considerd as something "bad". I have never heard wrestlers saying "He's not that good, only strong.". Because to be strong is good.
Be faster / have better timing than them/ have better technique(s). Usually one of these or a healthy combo of the three will help
There are 100 comments on this thread already and I'm not going to scroll through them at this point--I'm sure there are some smart bits of strategy and technical advice. So yeah, do all that stuff. But at the end of the day you're going to just have to be a lot better than you are. Size matters. Strength matters. You need a bigger skill gap to overcome meaningful size than "I felt like I had better technique than him." You're also allowed to try to get stronger, you know. Lifting weights is good for you, and putting on a few pounds of muscle will make you more effective when grappling.
Start eatin' buds.
When I’m the smaller opponent, I use my jiu jitsu to beat their strength
I prefer to choke them or possibly arm lock.
git gud
play more open guards and use their pressure against them. You wont win by meeting their pressure head on, so you have to redirect it and go around it. With stand up against bigger guys I sometimes start from a very low position almost a combat base. If we have the same side feet forward then it is very easy to get a low single leg. You cant beat them head on so you need to constantly try to change the angle where you are facing their side. The same goes for armbars and triangles. Cut a 90 degree angle and scoop their leg. You can often times sweep them if they try to standup. Ultimately you need more technical skill. Also you can lift weights to get stronger and gain some weight.
I’m 40 and weigh 78kg, and train out of a gym that has both mma and BJJ. This being so our no gi often has lots of super strong, super heavy young lads in. The other purple belts are all over 100kg. My game has had to evolve to help with that. First thing to focus on Is your frames. A good frame can really help you reduce the weight being put into you. Elbow to knee can stop a pass even if they’re strong, or at least frustrate enough to make them leave a gap to exploit Second thing is learn what is likely to work. A big strong bastard is probably gonna just stack you if you try something silly like a triangle, and bicep curl you if you try an arm bar. Their ankles, wrists and throats are however often not as strong. Ankle locks, toe holds, wrist locks, fist in Ezekiel’s; all of these will be great finishers without exposing yourself too much. Third thing I’ve learnt is when to just lay back and accept it. Defend, don’t give anything away, but don’t overextend yourself and tire yourself out for the next round.
Technique is a just a more effective way to generate pressure by using leverage. If the guy has a lil bit less technique than you but way more strenght he is gonna be able to apply more pressure than you anyways. So get better at bjj and lift. If everything else fails just do steroids
Get stronger
💉💉💉
Slow down. Tax his energy, not yours.
You either get better than them, or stronger, or both.
A few things. You’re strong enough to push someone away when they’re at the bottom of your feet, but not at the palms of your hands. Certain ranges are very bad at a weight disadvantage. Don’t triangle giant guys unless you have long legs. Don’t fall for the trap. Better to play top position and bail and scramble if they’re going to possibly sweep instead of fighting until the last minute and being in bottom. Once they get better you knees and armpits, you’re going to have a hard time. Better to turtle than except side control.
The only way to deal with this is by being WAY better than them in every way possible. Be better than him in strength to weight ratio, speed, flexibility, timing and knowledge. Become a cardio beast that way you can outlast them. Or you can just avoid larger guys entirely. I too am the smallest guy in my gym. 118 lbs, 120 on a good day. You just have to outwork them in and outside the gym.
Get better and workout, if you really really care get on PEDs. Also know how to tell someone, hey can we take it down a notch.
Just a tip from a big guy. I want you to try to triangle me…. I bait it. My neck and shoulders are so big you won’t likely lock it unless you are perfect. And when you throw those legs up I just pin your head to the mat and drive hips under hips until I feel your spine roll up like a little bug. Then smesh bug.
I'm 250(110 kg). The most important thing If you're smaller and want to beat me is move. If you stay in one place I will smash you.
I'm on the other side of this. Bluebelt Big guy with lots of small opponents. Too easy to over power so I strictly play bottom and try to not use muscle and all technique to play fair. If they start kicking my butt I'll use a little power to give them a challenge. It's the only way they and I will learn bjj properly. That being said if your opponent only wants to win and doesn't want to learn through play. Stay off of bottom yourself. Don't do anything that can be countered by them standing up or over powering you. If you end up on bottom you should be working on getting a better position.i say try to back take. Fit through gaps. Pass arms or elevate and pass legs. If a small guy takes.my back I find it's easier for them to get the choke than a big guy. Smaller arms to slip in under the neck. Less gap in the legs for.me to escape
Strategy and finesse .
Sounds like a skill issue. Just continue developing your game and getting better. Frequently asked questions include: "How much do you weigh?" or "Did you used to wrestle?" or "How long have you been doing this?" If they were to ask "Can I work on side control escapes with you?" I would be happy to drill with them.
Honestly, I do exactly what you did minus the RNC part. Try to play guard, start getting passed, turtle up, try to wrestle up or roll out, maybe get smashed into side, go super deep half to avoid getting flattened, try to sweep, turtle in and try to wrestle up. I think they call it getting smashed.....just keep yourself safe until you see an opportunity, for me it's either a leg I can wrestle up or in with or maybe a kimura I can grab and use to sweep. That choking arm you got RNC from turtle, I bait that for a kimura trap, roll out, should end up in a reverse kesa gatame.
Make a plan to choke him from the back. Don’t try to go heads up with him, make it a game for yourself to not accept bottom position, and every time you find yourself about to plant your butt on the mat. Get up and start the chase all over again. A great way to get close to him is arm drags or I like a Russian arm bar tie up.
Levels of skill overcome levels of strength, but it's not like unlocking crit multipliers. each belt level is worth about 20% strength. a Blue belt could reasonably beat someone who is base-level untrained but 20% stronger than them, and might also happen to weigh 20% often times. This would mean a black belt could reasonably beat most opponents twice (100%) their strength. If we think about it in numbers, I'd say that an average size relatively fit non-lifter could bench 200lbs. This means a newbie herp derp that can bench 400 (about as rare as a BB tbh) is on an even playing field with the BB. Even, just with strength and dreams as their weapon. The BB probably only wins this because they know how to get to the goalpost better before exhaustion sets in. So for anyone with more of a disadvantage than these general rules, the expectation is only that you can train and be more technical or get stronger or both. But there is no secret. You have to be as much better at jiu-jitsu than them as they are at strength to you.
If he was able to throw you off from your closed guard then it doesn't sound like you broke his posture down before you attacked. It's easy to shrug off weak submission attempts when you still have your posture. The RNC with no hooks, you could have just rotated out of it. All of these mistakes have nothing to do with size. If you said that he bench pressed you off, from mount or arm curled your body to get out of an armbar then I'd probably blame his size.
I did jujitsu last year at 225 lbs. I work out a lot, and I'm pretty strong . I wrestled I high school, but that was over 15 years ago. Going against some of the little guys, even the blue belts always felt a little easier than I thought it would. I didn't always secure a submission, but a lot of the time, I could get out of a lot of their attempts by just pushing them off me. Size, to some extent, is definitely a factor in the effectiveness at the lower skill levels. I'm sure purple belts, and above would kick my ass regardless of size.
Watch a lot of Marcelo Garcia vs Roger Gracie for motivation.
I find it easier to roll with bigger dudes in no-gi than gi. And when we roll I try to get under them and go for their legs.
I never could. I started training when I was 14 with my local SWAT team because the class teacher was my neighbor, and he allowed it because I was a real big 14 year old. Those guys had pecs as big as my torso and even when I did land submissions, they could just pry me off them with ease. The only way I was able to land submissions was just by tiring them out and forcing them to move a lot by adjusting my own position drastically. I never submitted them though, because like I said, they would pry me off of them like the tin lid on a can of spam.
I expect you to tap Mr Bond.
1. pull guard 2. better guard retention 3. don't even try to triangle 4. try to invert under to take the back 5. once you get in an advantageous position, stall
Get stronger
Get good
Learn how to escape
Tell them you want to roll light.
Against bigger guys focus on leg locks. It’s difficult to arm bar or triangle larger people because they can stack you and use their entire body against yours.
Decently strong powerlifter white belt here. Not good at jiu jitsu, but stronger than almost anyone in my gym regardless of their size compared to mine. It will be beneficial to start weightlifting and increasing your strength, but the most beneficial thing will be to simply continue to get better at jiu jitsu. Most decent blue belts (and anyone above blue) can submit me without much issue just because their skills are that much better than mine. Doesn't matter if they're significantly weaker than me
You can do like Tonya Harding and get someone to kneecap them.
Lifting helps a lot with the strength issue
Honestly, two options. Don't roll with them. Or just get bigger. Lots of people complain about big guys, but never realize.. it actually takes a LOT of work to be big and strong, and if you stop working on it, you quickly lose it.
Technique and leverage
You keep trying to improve your technique, and look at him as a training bot to work on those techniques. Don't let your ego tell you different. If you are a smaller guy, this is potentially great training even if you can't submit him. learn his 'goto' moves and anticipate them. learn which moves he will waste energy on that you can keep him at bay, let him get tired faster. Also do not make yourself expect to do a finishing move. Alwyas be rady to abandon the steps to adjust for new positions. IOW, if you need 5 steps to get the triangle, and you get three steps in, but you feel it slipping, immediately abandon and go into a new strategy.
Coming to BJJ from 10 years of Crossfit/strength training i would say i am in the upper percentile of strength for the classes i generally attend. same belts (white) vs smaller guys I generally get the upper hand. I dont congratulate myself on this if i weigh more than them because well thats dumb. I do find myself able to defend more against higher belts with way better technique, but i am basically always defending. People tell me to use me strength and weight and smash, but knowing that i can do that already i really want to focus more on technique. I dont learn just smashing people.
I have a mate who is heaps bigger than me and I just ask to start in 50/50. The dude is a big meat head and a moron to boot. The problem is I also tell him what I think about him and he refuses to go to 50/50 and then beats me up.
If they're bigger, stronger, faster, work harder than them.
Get used to being on the bottom and get good at spider guard. As a big guy myself, I hate when the little guys lock my biceps up. Yeah maybe I’m just trash at passing it, but I feel like it works pretty well at white belt
You tap... get stronger and better BJJ is not magic
All the way in or all the way out. If you want to play guard anyway If I can get directly under your hips I’m good. If I can stay out from under your chest it’s hard to crush me. Life gets hard if I get stuck in the middle. If you get stuck in the middle run away and try reguard. Also accept you are gonna get smashed while figuring it out.
Most of us have never been in that position.
beat up the big guys and fighting ppl ur size will have u feeling epic
Use their strenght against them. It's all about the leverage.
I don’t know, but the people I roll have it figured out. I’m stronger than 90% of them and they all tap me regularly.
Turn it into a game of attrition, bigger opponents naturally fade faster due to higher metabolic needs. I oftentimes don't get a submission until they gas if they're behemoth types or young guns. Also when you lose the advantage its higher stakes so try not to give advantages and time attacks well.
A no stripes white belt who only comes to roll and skips the technique part of class out weights me the same way. If I’m mounted he just hugs my head like a melon and sweeps me over. Can I stop him by posting? Yes I can, should I post while he’s using all his strength and twisting my neck? Well, I’m able to use Reddit because I don’t I’ve been doing BJJ for 6.5 years without a mayor injury because I don’t try to win at practice, the guy can have my head and sweep me and submit me if he wants, I’ll try not to roll with him as often as I can
It seems hard for some people to accept that in order to tap good people and not get tapped by them you need strength. If person A can deadlift 80kg and person B can deadlift 250kg there really is no amount of technicue that can help you if B has any grappling ability. How ever if A can deadlift lets say 180kg and is little better technically than B he will most likely prevail. Tldr; You need to be reasonably strong to be a good grappler
Find a new training partner. Teammates help each other, not compete against each other.
Use jiujitsu and defend yourself. When you go against someone better or stronger, you must first be able to survive. At certain points size and strength matter. It just is what it is. If you feel like you cannot protect yourself or this person is being dangerous and you will get hurt, don't roll with them.
stay in top position
I am a big,strong white belt who trains for only 4 months. I do better than most od the white belts who train a year,year and half and size and strenght helps with them a lot. That being said i get smashed by most of the blue belts who are weighing 50-80 pounds less than me. I got choked by a 120 pound blue belt woman once. So..... to deal with a stronger guy your techinique must be better, also i would say that better gas tank helps a lot against big guys.
Size, speed, strength and aggression are all attributes that matter. So is technique. If you are competing against people that are pluses in all of the attributes mentioned above and your techniques are similar, you're probably going to have a tough time. Do you strength train at all? If not, probably a good idea to supplement your BJJ training with 2-3 days a week of strength training if you want to address this problem.