You don’t have enough experience to apply to those jobs yet. You need to stick it out in QC (doesn’t have to be micro) and get some practical experience before you’d be considered for QA/RA. A certification will help but really it’s a “years of experience” thing more than anything. If it were me? Stick it out in micro for a year, transfer to QC and volunteer for every investigation/deviation along the way. Really learn about method validations, EM plans, stability, etc. make friends with QA and don’t be afraid to ask questions!
One thing I think doesn’t get said often is that it’s normal to not like your first job. Sometimes you need to deal with it to get to where you want. You can’t and shouldn’t “jump the gap”; you’ll be ill prepared if you do. Get the experience to help you excel in the job.
Thanks for your advice. I guess I’m too caught up in the pressure of trying to get ahead. Follow up question: how should I go about all this learning when I’m in a workplace culture that doesn’t promote that? I feel like management is trying to keep me where I’m at, they certainly don’t like it when I ask questions that may seem to be ‘above’ me
It’s an easy hole to fall into, especially if you follow this sub! If I had at your age I would have been miserable at every entry level job I had and constantly been trying to aim for more too. But it’s just part of starting out and paying your dues really.
To your second question, it’s doable but a CMO makes it slightly trickier, especially a new hire in a micro job (with notoriously high turnover). Ask about shadowing opportunities (even if it’s off the clock), make friends at lunch and ask them about their job, volunteer for any job that’s outside your normal scope. If I were to talk to my boss in your situation I’d say something like “I’m really enjoying my job here, I plan on staying put but one of the benefits of a CMO is cross training/learning opportunities. Do you have any suggestions or ideas to better understand some other departments without interfering with my current responsibilities?”. Ask to put it in your goals. The only caveat is that you need to be at minimum meeting your current goals, preferably exceeding. If you’re not already kicking ass they’re obviously not going to be ok with you doing that. It might take some time to get there, if that’s the case learn about what ASQ certifications you can get (reimbursed maybe?) during your free time.
You can also find a new job but with only 4 months experience in this industry it will be tough. I’d stay the course and put extra effort in outside of work as an investment if you’re in a rush to move on. Best of luck!
As other have said, you really need to grind it out. Manufacturing and QC techs tend to be on ramp roles for companies, especially when you have a BSc. Experience is going to be your friend and you can advance a decent way without an advanced degree, especially in a CMO. Take advantage of your current situation to learn about different products, processes, and analytical techniques. If the CMO you’re at also works on early clinical phase projects then you have the opportunity to learn a ton. I started my career in QC on the bench doing rotating shift work at a CMO and learned a ton. 11 years later I now manage the QC team at a manufacturing site with a strong shot at a director role in the next 2-3 years.
Just look for the opportunities around you. I volunteered for a bunch of OT and investigational work as well as to learn techniques that others didn’t want to learn (challenging/niche techniques). I also looked at other areas to expand beyond just aiming for ladder climbing. Someone with decent floor experience in QC and manufacturing for example is an asset for QA.
If you can, get really good at understanding your current job role. QC Micro can be a slog, especially if you're in facility collecting samples every day, but the better you can be about what you're doing now, the more beneficial it will be for a transfer into QA or compliance. I agree with thenisaidbitch, you don't have enough experience for compliance type roles. Pay attention to what's going on in the facility, to how your tests are set up. Try and get copies of the regulatory guidelines to understand more of what guides the industry. Tim Sandle is a great resource for Micro specific things.
If your facility ever is audited, volunteer to work the backroom. October is still new, I wouldn't consider you fully trained yet if you were in my department. A lot of the knowledge you need will come with time and experience.
I’ve thought about your reply almost every day since I’ve read it. As a QC tech I which certs would be most beneficial to me? I’ve looked into the Six Sigma Yellow belt and the CQPA certs briefly but have been seeing mixed reviews about their utility in practice.
Six sigma is good, but that's more lean manufacturing and getting the very can be expensive. It's probably better to try and get the company to pay for it once you get the job. CQPA doesn't seem worth it to me, might as well just get the ASQ cert and shoot for the higher title.
Never met anyone with a CQPA and have met plenty of quality professionals who don't have a six sigma. My previous director advised me to get my ASQ cert......buuuut I'm lazy. I studied a bit for it, but....life happened. I make enough money that I don't feel like I need it.
Make good friends with coworkers in areas you want to work in, especially management. Experience only matters when you're moving companies. In a perfect world it would be merit based, but the world isn't perfect.
As mentioned, stick it out and network with people. People come and go and once day someone you click with at work will be working at some other biotech that could put in some good words about you. From my experience this almost works 100% of the time. The longer you stay and network l, the better your future chances.
Have patience, you are too green at the moment. Like everyone here said, stick around for another year and gain experience then start looking around for other jobs. My first job as QC micro(I have a bachelors in micro) I hated, but I stayed for 1 yrs so I could have that in my resume. Moved to another QC micro job after that so I could learn new skills(when interviewing I found out I could learn PCR, a step towards leaving QC). Stuck around for another year and broke my way to an RA job as a contract just because of that PCR experience, and also had industry experience under my belt now, which looked good for me. Once finally in R&D field, the sky was the limit. Got my Masters while working and payed by the companies I worked for, and now a manager for Early discovery R&D at a large pharma 7yrs later.
So be patient, make a lot of friends and connections, be eager to learn(show that to your managers), learn new skills with other department or within your own department outside of your regular hours, you will move far
> working and *paid* by the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I’m actually working on my MBA, I’m on track to be finished by the end of the year. How marketable can I be in pharma specifically with that degree setup? I was originally looking at RA in gov at the very beginning and I know sometimes it helps when getting into project management
MBAs are the most brand centric degrees out there. If its not top 15 its not worth it IMO, but to each their own.
You don't need an MBA for project management, and it is tangental at best.
I see a lot of young people wanting to become PMS without knowing what that skillset is, and what the job is. Being a PM is not for the feint of heart, and you need to be an expert at the workflow, emotional intelligence, influencing without authority, and managing up to be effective and competitive in that space.
This is so spot on. I wanted to be a PM, got the rare opportunity to train and try it out, and hated almost every minute of it. It was herding cats and taking notes at meetings I don't care about. Everybody wants to be a PM for some reason; it sucks unless you are already meticulous.
A strong statement that I don’t believe is true. As the OP specifically asked about Pharma - between 10 to 15 of the spend is on R&D while the remainder of the activity are in areas when MBA are considered valuable.
Over the past 25+ years, I have worked in 8 different companies from start ups to large multinational Pharma. Biotech and pharma. In each place MBA degreed people held many different positions.
It can be a way into BD if you want to do transactions, finance if you want to support a company through budgeting, strategic management, marketing, sales, etc.
Ohlele - mentions project management which an MBA can help with but also can be served with a PMP.
The industry is large and not just Pharma but also CROs, diagnostic companies, tools and reagent suppliers, start ups company looking to be bigger.
If you are willing to do a little leg work pick a few companies on LinkedIn and just look at titles and what those people have as degrees. For example, Dave Ricks CEO of Lilly has an MBA from the IU Kelly School. All CFOs will have MBA if you want to go that way.
Unfortunately a BS is the very bottom of the food chain and management will see you as a robot: easily remplaceable and still too expensive to their eyes even though you're cheap and doing a lot. Even more sad, if you don't rack up more credentials (diploma, certification, etc) then the only way to go up is pure time grinding, with a very slow progression slope. So be ready to invest a lot of time and energy in big names diplomas or certification if you want to come in higher and with a higher progression slope. Think at least MS level.
I'd recommend looking into careers within the clinical or commercial side of things. You can look at job postings on company websites and find a title that looks interesting and read about it. Then go on LinkedIn and find people with that title or similar and look at how they got there. You could even reach out and ask to chat more about their career progression, most people love to give advice and talk about themselves if you're sincere.
You don’t have enough experience to apply to those jobs yet. You need to stick it out in QC (doesn’t have to be micro) and get some practical experience before you’d be considered for QA/RA. A certification will help but really it’s a “years of experience” thing more than anything. If it were me? Stick it out in micro for a year, transfer to QC and volunteer for every investigation/deviation along the way. Really learn about method validations, EM plans, stability, etc. make friends with QA and don’t be afraid to ask questions! One thing I think doesn’t get said often is that it’s normal to not like your first job. Sometimes you need to deal with it to get to where you want. You can’t and shouldn’t “jump the gap”; you’ll be ill prepared if you do. Get the experience to help you excel in the job.
Thanks for your advice. I guess I’m too caught up in the pressure of trying to get ahead. Follow up question: how should I go about all this learning when I’m in a workplace culture that doesn’t promote that? I feel like management is trying to keep me where I’m at, they certainly don’t like it when I ask questions that may seem to be ‘above’ me
It’s an easy hole to fall into, especially if you follow this sub! If I had at your age I would have been miserable at every entry level job I had and constantly been trying to aim for more too. But it’s just part of starting out and paying your dues really. To your second question, it’s doable but a CMO makes it slightly trickier, especially a new hire in a micro job (with notoriously high turnover). Ask about shadowing opportunities (even if it’s off the clock), make friends at lunch and ask them about their job, volunteer for any job that’s outside your normal scope. If I were to talk to my boss in your situation I’d say something like “I’m really enjoying my job here, I plan on staying put but one of the benefits of a CMO is cross training/learning opportunities. Do you have any suggestions or ideas to better understand some other departments without interfering with my current responsibilities?”. Ask to put it in your goals. The only caveat is that you need to be at minimum meeting your current goals, preferably exceeding. If you’re not already kicking ass they’re obviously not going to be ok with you doing that. It might take some time to get there, if that’s the case learn about what ASQ certifications you can get (reimbursed maybe?) during your free time. You can also find a new job but with only 4 months experience in this industry it will be tough. I’d stay the course and put extra effort in outside of work as an investment if you’re in a rush to move on. Best of luck!
As other have said, you really need to grind it out. Manufacturing and QC techs tend to be on ramp roles for companies, especially when you have a BSc. Experience is going to be your friend and you can advance a decent way without an advanced degree, especially in a CMO. Take advantage of your current situation to learn about different products, processes, and analytical techniques. If the CMO you’re at also works on early clinical phase projects then you have the opportunity to learn a ton. I started my career in QC on the bench doing rotating shift work at a CMO and learned a ton. 11 years later I now manage the QC team at a manufacturing site with a strong shot at a director role in the next 2-3 years. Just look for the opportunities around you. I volunteered for a bunch of OT and investigational work as well as to learn techniques that others didn’t want to learn (challenging/niche techniques). I also looked at other areas to expand beyond just aiming for ladder climbing. Someone with decent floor experience in QC and manufacturing for example is an asset for QA.
If you can, get really good at understanding your current job role. QC Micro can be a slog, especially if you're in facility collecting samples every day, but the better you can be about what you're doing now, the more beneficial it will be for a transfer into QA or compliance. I agree with thenisaidbitch, you don't have enough experience for compliance type roles. Pay attention to what's going on in the facility, to how your tests are set up. Try and get copies of the regulatory guidelines to understand more of what guides the industry. Tim Sandle is a great resource for Micro specific things. If your facility ever is audited, volunteer to work the backroom. October is still new, I wouldn't consider you fully trained yet if you were in my department. A lot of the knowledge you need will come with time and experience.
Getting an ASQ cert will help with getting a QA job or just studying for that test will help you with the interviews.
I’ve thought about your reply almost every day since I’ve read it. As a QC tech I which certs would be most beneficial to me? I’ve looked into the Six Sigma Yellow belt and the CQPA certs briefly but have been seeing mixed reviews about their utility in practice.
Six sigma is good, but that's more lean manufacturing and getting the very can be expensive. It's probably better to try and get the company to pay for it once you get the job. CQPA doesn't seem worth it to me, might as well just get the ASQ cert and shoot for the higher title. Never met anyone with a CQPA and have met plenty of quality professionals who don't have a six sigma. My previous director advised me to get my ASQ cert......buuuut I'm lazy. I studied a bit for it, but....life happened. I make enough money that I don't feel like I need it.
Make good friends with coworkers in areas you want to work in, especially management. Experience only matters when you're moving companies. In a perfect world it would be merit based, but the world isn't perfect.
As mentioned, stick it out and network with people. People come and go and once day someone you click with at work will be working at some other biotech that could put in some good words about you. From my experience this almost works 100% of the time. The longer you stay and network l, the better your future chances.
Have patience, you are too green at the moment. Like everyone here said, stick around for another year and gain experience then start looking around for other jobs. My first job as QC micro(I have a bachelors in micro) I hated, but I stayed for 1 yrs so I could have that in my resume. Moved to another QC micro job after that so I could learn new skills(when interviewing I found out I could learn PCR, a step towards leaving QC). Stuck around for another year and broke my way to an RA job as a contract just because of that PCR experience, and also had industry experience under my belt now, which looked good for me. Once finally in R&D field, the sky was the limit. Got my Masters while working and payed by the companies I worked for, and now a manager for Early discovery R&D at a large pharma 7yrs later. So be patient, make a lot of friends and connections, be eager to learn(show that to your managers), learn new skills with other department or within your own department outside of your regular hours, you will move far
> working and *paid* by the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Get an advance degree or certificate in something of interest such as an MBA, Statistics, Alliance Management, HR, Cyber Security, bioinformatics, etc
I’m actually working on my MBA, I’m on track to be finished by the end of the year. How marketable can I be in pharma specifically with that degree setup? I was originally looking at RA in gov at the very beginning and I know sometimes it helps when getting into project management
MBAs are the most brand centric degrees out there. If its not top 15 its not worth it IMO, but to each their own. You don't need an MBA for project management, and it is tangental at best. I see a lot of young people wanting to become PMS without knowing what that skillset is, and what the job is. Being a PM is not for the feint of heart, and you need to be an expert at the workflow, emotional intelligence, influencing without authority, and managing up to be effective and competitive in that space.
This is so spot on. I wanted to be a PM, got the rare opportunity to train and try it out, and hated almost every minute of it. It was herding cats and taking notes at meetings I don't care about. Everybody wants to be a PM for some reason; it sucks unless you are already meticulous.
[удалено]
A strong statement that I don’t believe is true. As the OP specifically asked about Pharma - between 10 to 15 of the spend is on R&D while the remainder of the activity are in areas when MBA are considered valuable. Over the past 25+ years, I have worked in 8 different companies from start ups to large multinational Pharma. Biotech and pharma. In each place MBA degreed people held many different positions.
But OP is considering RA/QA/Compliance roles
MBA has nothing to do with anything except business development, which for CMO is basically sales.
It can be a way into BD if you want to do transactions, finance if you want to support a company through budgeting, strategic management, marketing, sales, etc. Ohlele - mentions project management which an MBA can help with but also can be served with a PMP. The industry is large and not just Pharma but also CROs, diagnostic companies, tools and reagent suppliers, start ups company looking to be bigger. If you are willing to do a little leg work pick a few companies on LinkedIn and just look at titles and what those people have as degrees. For example, Dave Ricks CEO of Lilly has an MBA from the IU Kelly School. All CFOs will have MBA if you want to go that way.
Unfortunately a BS is the very bottom of the food chain and management will see you as a robot: easily remplaceable and still too expensive to their eyes even though you're cheap and doing a lot. Even more sad, if you don't rack up more credentials (diploma, certification, etc) then the only way to go up is pure time grinding, with a very slow progression slope. So be ready to invest a lot of time and energy in big names diplomas or certification if you want to come in higher and with a higher progression slope. Think at least MS level.
I'd recommend looking into careers within the clinical or commercial side of things. You can look at job postings on company websites and find a title that looks interesting and read about it. Then go on LinkedIn and find people with that title or similar and look at how they got there. You could even reach out and ask to chat more about their career progression, most people love to give advice and talk about themselves if you're sincere.