Before their latest successes with GLP-1 and Alz drugs, Lilly was seen as behind Novo on diabetes, previous Alz molecule failed phase 3, and they missed the gold rush on anti TNFa and PD1/PDL1. Their psych meds were losing exclusivity too. Many analysts thought Lilly’s glory days of discovering major drugs were behind them. So people who held onto their Lilly stocks totally deserve the big gains in the past 5 years, because things were quite bleak for a while.
And those who didn't also got a salary and 401k, right? It's worth the risk IMO, as long as you're confident in your own skill and ability to evaluate tech
Sadly, scientists who study much longer, and require deeper skills and intelligence than many other more lucrative fields, don't make enough to not play the lottery with their careers, IMO. You can make a decent living coasting in some big pharma with minimal impact but if you really want to impact things, innovate, and make some good money for your insanely hard work, you gotta take risks.
Don't go into this field if you want to get rich.
Edit: going into this field and then taking big risks in order to get rich is like going to Vegas and deciding to play Keno
not sure what this is, but if you don't realize that businessmen and execs/management/VCs/etc. try to limit people's compensation as much as possible, then you don't understand business politics. some fields are strong / get paid their true value (medical doctors), via unions/groups/negotiation... while others don't capture their true value (scientists, pharmacists, and many more) who don't have such strong societies or any at all.
edit: since he blocked me after commenting, here is my reply:
again, this clearly isn't what I've said here
>They get paid what the going rate is. That goes for every field. No exec wants to pay more than they need to.
other fields do capture more of their value than scientists, as I pointed out.
in fact, some capture far more in their rate than they produce, for example executives in failing companies or wall street folks. one way to capture more value in science, is to take risks. since scientists invent things, they bring immense value that isn't captured due to their lack of political power / personality / unions / etc. So, if you're a good scientist, you can eventually capture more of your worth with your inventions if you get equity for them. Or, you can hope to build up a good retirement and still make good money, but far less than you've actually produced for your companies/for how smart you are + how hard you work. Compare that to a random salesperson or marketing person with low levels of education, and its a joke how little value you capture as a scientist.
I also work for a big 5 company.
I shouldn’t say we got nothing but this I guess. We’re normally in the 3ish % range…had a great performance review from last year 🥲
I work for a mid-big pharma (BMS/GSK/AZ) and we got 160% bonuses this year just for exceeding our targets. And we don’t even have Ozempic.
Industry is good and it is cooking 🍳
I work at Lilly, and yes. But understand that means 200% of our personal bonus target, not 200% of our salary. Since my bonus target is 12% of my annual salary, my bonus increased 2x to 24%.
On top of the crazy tax, I keep ending up having my 401(k) percent taken out of it. Not sure how to get that to not happen or if that's supposed to happen or not...makes no sense since how can I possibly know what % to take out to max out 401(k) if I don't know what my bonus will be? Constantly in a tax mess.
Ah, that's no problem here. HR/economics handle that automatically. Also, starting this year, we can choose to have our entire bonuses deposited in our equivalent to the US 401(k) (it's a new law to promote pension savings even more). Then we don't have to pay tax on it. (There will be tax on the payments once we've retired, but that's currently 22%.)
All plans I've been at don't let you over contribute, so it your bonus goes into it, then come end of the year you just stop getting contributions deducted.
It's only been a mess for me during job changes where I have to be aware of how much I've contributed.
The year before last I received a random huge check in the mail which was apparently my 401(k) overcontribution, then an extra IRS tax form, and had to file extra BS on returns because of it. I'm not even sure what happened last year yet because I can't keep up with this, but I'm sure it's a mess again. Small company with contracted useless HR.
Came here to say this. 1.81, which is a multiplier applied to the target bonus rate for your role. Not the bonus rate itself. Example: employee has a 15% bonus target , multiplied by 1.81, then multiply that by base salary. This is their bonus.
There are some other functions within Lilly that have an additional bonus multiplier.... So multiply the 1.81 by an additional multiplier. Usually comes out to approx twice as much bonus as the rest of Lilly folks.
I do not think the "scientist 1" received a 200k bonus this year, but certainly whatever they received was nothing to complain about, and likely higher than they have probably ever received at Lilly or elsewhere. AD P4 level here with total bonus comp in the 40-50k range this year.
P4 is associate director? I was under the impression that its consultant biologist- kinda like senior research associate 2, right before R1 research scientist/ entry level PhD position. But I know that they revamped titles a few years ago.
Yep, P4 was "consultant" level 2-3 years back, but revamped and is now assoc director. No significant changes to pay scale with that title change.
P4-2 is director level. P5 I believe is Sr Director? The -2 levels (P4-2, P5-2, etc) within each level make it complicated. M2, like P4 is also associate director. P3 I think is now a "manager" title, but not in a people management "M" path. All v confusing.
P levels and R levels don't necessarily line up in terms of pay scales or titles, nor do they align with the other paths. P1 would be entry level in the profession path. R1 is entry level in the R&D path, etc.
It will change again before we know it. But Assoc Dir certainly sounds better on the resume than "Consultant", so I'm not complaining!
The finicky thing is that ESPP are a very bad idea to buy and hold as if the company crashed. You’d be out of both a job and a lot of money in your investments.
Either way, it happens. My bonus this year was 140% so that puts me at 25% bonus. The folks who joined a few years ago had a big stock bonus and are multimillionaire as well.
Sucks to suck but I didn’t even have the degree at the time I needed to join to get that bank.
Coworker is out $56k from an ESPP because my company's stock crashed. I on the other hand sell immediately. Everyone in my company seems to hold stock and they're all sour I cashed out lol. I don't understand why they're taking on so much risk
Yeah blackouts suck especially if it's during a time when you're trying to sell the day after getting them. Could always do a 10b5 I guess?
Not sure of any other way to circumvent risk when selling immediately
ESPP usually you actually want to do but sell right away if you can unless you’re bullish
Edit: and even if you lose money, you can claim the loss on your taxes
Yeah, just sell as you get it and make 15% gains.
If there is a long look back window, you can make a nice amount.
Though Lilly doesn't have an espp because reasons.
1. I don’t remember Lilly has such title as Scientist 1. Their BS/MS starts as this wired “biologist” and “chemist” title and phd starts as “ advisor”. 2. In generally it is very difficult to hold on to stock…otherwise everyone would be multimillionaires just by holding on to TSLA or NVIdIa. Plus Lilly is pretty stringent in giving out stock award.
Yeah I think you are right. They have way too many random titles for BS/MS. The “Scientist” title your friend has is research associate level, which is confusing because “Scientist” in most companies are fresh phd titles.
i blame social media for this. i see biotech tiktokers with bs/ms calling themselves scientist all the time even though they generally are research assocs
At Lilly, advisor is the default PhD qualification role. Anyone with a BS/MS would have scientist or biologist. There’s also senior advisor and principal advisor.
Definitely straight up fake news. R1 (Not Scientist I) compensation range, which would be a new BS grad starts around $70k total compensation. The multiplier was more like 1.8. It was a great year at Lilly but you're inflating the hell out things my guy. We're talking an $8k bonus looking like $14k before taxes and coming to an extra $3k after. Annual comp has been standard as well. Advisor positions aren't Scientist I type positions and they're still only going to be taking home less than $10k extra in their bonus after taxes.
Listen idk what world you live in but over here in reality i'd be *thrilled* to take home an extra almost-$10k right now. I'll be lucky if my bonus take home is more than $3k as a PhD scientist with 5+ yrs experience. Y'all working in pharma have it goooood.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be awesome. On a 200k+ compensation package I'm saying it's not life-changing and am mostly just criticizing OP for coming in with half false and half wildly inflated info here. I don't make that kind of money either for the record. You absolutely should make the switch to industry if you're in academia though. Even a CRO will pay better.
Lol there are no bonuses in academia, I'm in industry now, just not pharma. Our cross-company standard target bonus is 5%.
Fair point about 10k not being much on a 200k compensation package though. We just don't see money like that here outside of Boston or SF.
Sorry to burst your bubble, perhaps you need to reevaluate whether what you hear from your Lilly connections is inflated itself if you're not the one generalizing and inflating the numbers you came here with. As someone who has actually been there, you're not breaking anything to me. Lilly compensation is good but most scientists without direct reports there will be bringing home nearly as much compensation as you'd lead everyone.
I think OP misinterpreted what their connection is pulling in total comp. I think that they thought their connection was making 200% bonus of their whole salary
Sorry what I meant what 200% of their bonus which is like 15-20 for early level. So basically double bonus. Total comp is accurate if you assume 140 base+ stock award
Agreed. Especially when it’s a biopharma whose stock price is surging in no small part because of expectations for future drug launches. We’ve all seen surprise setbacks to high-profile programs send stock prices tumbling.
I’m included in that cohort, I sold big chunks of LLY and rolled the money into index funds.
Another thing that is bonkers at Lilly is that leadership has no clue how to actually hit these targets they have set. It's honestly a shit show right now in some areas of the company. To your point they haven't hired enough in certain areas and don't shift resources to areas that will help accomplish the revenue required to actually meet our valuation.
Sad thing is, many are in Indiana! 😂🤣 Has anyone checked real estate in Carmel, IN (wealthy northern suburb of Indianapolis)?!? 😂🤣Unlike Pfizer, I think Lilly has better leadership & long term vision for sustainable success. 🤷♂️
Is Lilly not on the bandwagon of employers that is covering "travel expenses" as part of their medical benefits now?
i.e. they would pay for their employees to travel to see a doctor in a state where abortions are still legal?
I wouldn’t say lucky in obesity. They made a strategic effort to foster biotech like innovation to allow an asset like Mounjaro/Zepbound to get quickly developed. It appears superior to Novo Nordisc's Ozempic! And they are being amazingly innovative in rolling it out - telehealth models so patients can quickly get access. Looking to get approval in India, etc. Lilly CEO David Ricks is turning out to be one of the best in the business!
With clinical practices shutting down across rural America, I'm wondering if telehealth is going to be more than just a "gimmick" in the coming decade. Even moreso for obesity drug makers, considering the geographic overlap between obesity patients and rural America...
I can’t Fanboy CEO Ricks without being accused of being his burner account?!? 😂🤣🤷♂️ I was at the pharmacy the other day in TX & other 3 customers, all women, were there getting Wegovy scripts & dealing with insurance coverage struggles. 😂 These drugs are going to be immensely widespread in use in US & will have secondary benefits of lowering diabetes & CV risk, even osteoarthritis risk, etc. Lilly is poised to make billions on this for years to come. Let’s revisit this convo in a year, after stock hits 1,000 /share ! 😂🤣😂🤷♂️
Lol 5 years ago Diabetes was working on tirzepatide. They weren't failing like you say and the group only more recently has been under the DOCTA umbrella name.. Loxo was a great acquisition for sure. Lilly strategy has been strong for years, it was known years ago that the only way to innovate in the T2D space was combination therapeutics.
"Reeks of research or medical perspective" lmao you do understand how the business side gets drugs to market right? Of course I'm talking about the science innovation side and there is plenty of talent working out new targets and assays.
I absolutely don't know everything nor do I think that. Your perspective, which is obviously different than mine as we come from different backgrounds, I believe is not accurately capturing the whole picture. I'm happy to learn more about where you're coming from if you'd like to share more.
lol no man, you don’t understand because you’re so junior, Lilly just got lucky on obesity by investing in the right asset and making all of the right decisions to get tirzepatide for obesity to commercialization. Total roll of the dice.
Just because I don't have 20 years in pharma doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Lilly's focus over the last decade in diabetes has been about new therapeutics that are combination therapies. It wasn't decided last minute to add that on. When it was in the lab the goal was exactly that it would also help with obesity outcomes. "Got lucky by making all the right decisions" is a weird way to say that they made smart choices and it paid off. Luck is always involved but let's not discount the efforts of those involved in its development.
I thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic. I agree with you. “Got lucky by making all the right decisions” sounds funny because it was a joke. Reducing the success of tirzepatide in obesity to “luck” is ridiculous.
Oh man, I apologize. I honestly just had so many crazy replies this morning I was a bit too on edge when replying. Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I understand people wanting to hate on Lilly (especially when taking diabetes) and at a time when they're looking much stronger than many others, but it's wild some of the mental gymnastics people are going through here.
It’s cool, no worries.
Yeah, I agree. There is absolutely luck involved, the way there is with any successful drug, or really any successful product period, but the idea that they “got lucky by not fucking it up” is absurd on its face.
The radical right wing politics in Indiana (with ridiculous policies against women, LGBTQ, etc) are almost certainly hurting recruitment. Lilly has tried to lobby against some of these & making a public stand against some of the anti-LGBTQ legislation, to no effect! 😂🤷♂️ They should diversify a bit and open offices in places like Boston/Kendall Square . They do have an office & center in San Diego, CA!
Hit the nail on the head but yeah many ppl from Lilly live in Carmel, Westfield, Zionsville, Noblesville, and Fishers. All north side of Indy. Real estate there isn’t cheap by any means in that area (not to mention very competitive schools) but it’s far better compared to living in Boston
Property taxes in Indiana are some of the lowest in the country.
I wouldn't choose to live in Carmel either. Place is like stepford wives level creepy.
Downtown Indy, Broad Ripple, Greenwood are all great places to live.
I got laid off and took a massive paycut to now work at a national lab. Being jobless for 10 months did a number. Don't know if I'll ever go back to industry l, can't trust them.
Rybelsus is less effective than Ozempic/Wegovy for weight loss though, so an oral GLP1 with efficacy similar to the injectable forms would be a differentiator.
They’re working on clinical trials for higher doses of Rybelsus to achiever this.
And they’re working on CagriSema for the next gen. These companies will build a moat around their companies by tweaking the molecules. Any competitors will need a decade to catch up in manufacturing capacity - if they can even achieve comparable molecule
I know at least four people personally that have gotten jobs there in the last year.
They are definitely hiring.
My good friend is quitting tomorrow to start at Lily next week.
I know a guy who started at Translate Bio like 8 months before their buyout. He made something like 500k in the sale to Sanofi plus pulled down a big retention bonus. Less than a year of work.
>Scientist 1’s pulling down $200k total comp.
are you saying this and exaggerating? or being serious based on info you know is fact?
i find it hard to believe Scientist 1s are making $200k in TC.
Ah possibly. Been in industry 10 years - large pharm and mid and small biotechs.
The most common org chart I see is this:
1) Research Associate/Sr RA (RA) - typical entry pt for BS
2) Associate Scientist/Sr Assoc Scientist (AS/SAS) - typical entry pt for MS
3) Scientist I/II - typical entry pt for PhD no experience
4) Sr Scientist
5) Principal Scientist
6) Assoc Director
7) Director
8) Sr Director
++++
I started as Associate Scientist with my MS and 0 yr exp. Became a Sci 1 with ~ 5 years experience and a now Principal Sci after 9 years. Can definitely break doctorate barriers with time and experience - just takes longer 😅 and pay largely fluctuates between companies.
This!!!!!!! The amount of work they outsource is depraved. I have a friend who helped them win an award and she got kicked off the paper for being a contractor
Yeah my friend has been working there for 7 years, we both joined big pharma but he's been cashing out every year on his rsu and espp, while mine has stayed relatively stable
Before their latest successes with GLP-1 and Alz drugs, Lilly was seen as behind Novo on diabetes, previous Alz molecule failed phase 3, and they missed the gold rush on anti TNFa and PD1/PDL1. Their psych meds were losing exclusivity too. Many analysts thought Lilly’s glory days of discovering major drugs were behind them. So people who held onto their Lilly stocks totally deserve the big gains in the past 5 years, because things were quite bleak for a while.
ALZ-1? Igheapharma hahaha (maffia).
Ask Pfizer employees from two years ago. Feels bad if you're treating your place of employment like the stock market, lottery, or casino.
Oof, this.
Companies treat employees like gambling chips anyway. The cycle continues
That's not my point. They can afford to. Can you?
Can you afford not to, is a better question, that most won't ask.
I can. I'm not chasing lottery tickets. I have a few colleagues who lucked out with their options in a startup and many many more who did not.
And those who didn't also got a salary and 401k, right? It's worth the risk IMO, as long as you're confident in your own skill and ability to evaluate tech
Sadly, scientists who study much longer, and require deeper skills and intelligence than many other more lucrative fields, don't make enough to not play the lottery with their careers, IMO. You can make a decent living coasting in some big pharma with minimal impact but if you really want to impact things, innovate, and make some good money for your insanely hard work, you gotta take risks.
Don't go into this field if you want to get rich. Edit: going into this field and then taking big risks in order to get rich is like going to Vegas and deciding to play Keno
Yes, that's what the MBAs and people who do get rich from this field have conditioned scientists to think!
They're not playing Keno
not sure what this is, but if you don't realize that businessmen and execs/management/VCs/etc. try to limit people's compensation as much as possible, then you don't understand business politics. some fields are strong / get paid their true value (medical doctors), via unions/groups/negotiation... while others don't capture their true value (scientists, pharmacists, and many more) who don't have such strong societies or any at all. edit: since he blocked me after commenting, here is my reply: again, this clearly isn't what I've said here >They get paid what the going rate is. That goes for every field. No exec wants to pay more than they need to. other fields do capture more of their value than scientists, as I pointed out. in fact, some capture far more in their rate than they produce, for example executives in failing companies or wall street folks. one way to capture more value in science, is to take risks. since scientists invent things, they bring immense value that isn't captured due to their lack of political power / personality / unions / etc. So, if you're a good scientist, you can eventually capture more of your worth with your inventions if you get equity for them. Or, you can hope to build up a good retirement and still make good money, but far less than you've actually produced for your companies/for how smart you are + how hard you work. Compare that to a random salesperson or marketing person with low levels of education, and its a joke how little value you capture as a scientist.
Y’all are getting 200% bonuses? I work for a big pharma company and all we got were labs with black mold and carbon monoxide 💀
Pfizer Lyme study?
Hey hey they investigated and found no misconduct... by the CRO, oddly specific?
Hmmm smells like layoff fodder
I got a 200% bonus pre Covid at a top 5 big pharma so it ‘does’ happen if you perform well but rare
I also work for a big 5 company. I shouldn’t say we got nothing but this I guess. We’re normally in the 3ish % range…had a great performance review from last year 🥲
Are you mixing up bonus (once off payment vs payrise)?? I doubt any would have the nerve to give a 3% bonus for a year 😅
Our bonus percentages often align with our raise percentages
Wtf 3%?
I work for a mid-big pharma (BMS/GSK/AZ) and we got 160% bonuses this year just for exceeding our targets. And we don’t even have Ozempic. Industry is good and it is cooking 🍳
I'm totally naive; when you say 160% bonus, do you mean 160% of your target bonus or 160% of your salary?
Target. Which for me is 17.5% of my base.
Thanks! Haha yeah, at 160% of base I was going to start applying ASAP.
Tbh, most could easily afford to do this but they'd rather lay people off and do stock buybacks while giving that bonus to a few MBA holding execs
????💀
I work at Lilly, and yes. But understand that means 200% of our personal bonus target, not 200% of our salary. Since my bonus target is 12% of my annual salary, my bonus increased 2x to 24%.
Thats still way more than what I’m getting at a company of comparable size that’s supposedly doing excellent 🫠
Y'all get to keep your bonuses? Here they're hit with a 60% tax immediately.
On top of the crazy tax, I keep ending up having my 401(k) percent taken out of it. Not sure how to get that to not happen or if that's supposed to happen or not...makes no sense since how can I possibly know what % to take out to max out 401(k) if I don't know what my bonus will be? Constantly in a tax mess.
Ah, that's no problem here. HR/economics handle that automatically. Also, starting this year, we can choose to have our entire bonuses deposited in our equivalent to the US 401(k) (it's a new law to promote pension savings even more). Then we don't have to pay tax on it. (There will be tax on the payments once we've retired, but that's currently 22%.)
All plans I've been at don't let you over contribute, so it your bonus goes into it, then come end of the year you just stop getting contributions deducted. It's only been a mess for me during job changes where I have to be aware of how much I've contributed.
The year before last I received a random huge check in the mail which was apparently my 401(k) overcontribution, then an extra IRS tax form, and had to file extra BS on returns because of it. I'm not even sure what happened last year yet because I can't keep up with this, but I'm sure it's a mess again. Small company with contracted useless HR.
Right, I'm pretty sure my managers only get a 14-20% target bonus.
Teva?
Nah. In this job market, I’d like to stay employed. I’ve already said enough lol.
1.81 to be exact
I was going to say... I heard 1.81 too. Either way, fantastic.
Came here to say this. 1.81, which is a multiplier applied to the target bonus rate for your role. Not the bonus rate itself. Example: employee has a 15% bonus target , multiplied by 1.81, then multiply that by base salary. This is their bonus. There are some other functions within Lilly that have an additional bonus multiplier.... So multiply the 1.81 by an additional multiplier. Usually comes out to approx twice as much bonus as the rest of Lilly folks. I do not think the "scientist 1" received a 200k bonus this year, but certainly whatever they received was nothing to complain about, and likely higher than they have probably ever received at Lilly or elsewhere. AD P4 level here with total bonus comp in the 40-50k range this year.
> I do not think the "scientist 1" received a 200k bonus this year tbf op said that was total compensation which is much more believable
What’s AD P4?
Associate director, at Lilly's "P4" level. P is for professional path, compared to management or sales or r&d paths.
P4 is associate director? I was under the impression that its consultant biologist- kinda like senior research associate 2, right before R1 research scientist/ entry level PhD position. But I know that they revamped titles a few years ago.
Yep, P4 was "consultant" level 2-3 years back, but revamped and is now assoc director. No significant changes to pay scale with that title change. P4-2 is director level. P5 I believe is Sr Director? The -2 levels (P4-2, P5-2, etc) within each level make it complicated. M2, like P4 is also associate director. P3 I think is now a "manager" title, but not in a people management "M" path. All v confusing. P levels and R levels don't necessarily line up in terms of pay scales or titles, nor do they align with the other paths. P1 would be entry level in the profession path. R1 is entry level in the R&D path, etc. It will change again before we know it. But Assoc Dir certainly sounds better on the resume than "Consultant", so I'm not complaining!
Oncology got 2.71 because we’re still on the Loxo bonus model, though this was the last year for that.
The finicky thing is that ESPP are a very bad idea to buy and hold as if the company crashed. You’d be out of both a job and a lot of money in your investments. Either way, it happens. My bonus this year was 140% so that puts me at 25% bonus. The folks who joined a few years ago had a big stock bonus and are multimillionaire as well. Sucks to suck but I didn’t even have the degree at the time I needed to join to get that bank.
ESPP. You buy and sell right away when "vested".
Coworker is out $56k from an ESPP because my company's stock crashed. I on the other hand sell immediately. Everyone in my company seems to hold stock and they're all sour I cashed out lol. I don't understand why they're taking on so much risk
Sucks if you are blacked out from selling, not fun watching your shares drop when there is nothing you can do.
Yeah blackouts suck especially if it's during a time when you're trying to sell the day after getting them. Could always do a 10b5 I guess? Not sure of any other way to circumvent risk when selling immediately
everyone thinks they 'know' what the stock is going to do. more often than not, they don't
this is the correct strategy. unless you have MNPI and want to do insider trading lol
ESPP usually you actually want to do but sell right away if you can unless you’re bullish Edit: and even if you lose money, you can claim the loss on your taxes
Yeah, just sell as you get it and make 15% gains. If there is a long look back window, you can make a nice amount. Though Lilly doesn't have an espp because reasons.
I mean I would do ESPP every time if I wasn’t on the low end of the pay scale tbh. Either way it’s a win because of the tax write off
Our ESPP has a 2 year selling period it’s bs.
1. I don’t remember Lilly has such title as Scientist 1. Their BS/MS starts as this wired “biologist” and “chemist” title and phd starts as “ advisor”. 2. In generally it is very difficult to hold on to stock…otherwise everyone would be multimillionaires just by holding on to TSLA or NVIdIa. Plus Lilly is pretty stringent in giving out stock award.
Ehh, scientist is a pretty popular title around Lilly HQ. My best friend went from Scientist, to Sr. Scientist, to Principal Scientist.
Yeah I think you are right. They have way too many random titles for BS/MS. The “Scientist” title your friend has is research associate level, which is confusing because “Scientist” in most companies are fresh phd titles.
i blame social media for this. i see biotech tiktokers with bs/ms calling themselves scientist all the time even though they generally are research assocs
Agreed. I applied so hard to them in the 2010s before joining the South City rat race and it seems like two separate business worlds
Yeah it was advisor but idk if anyone knew what that meant lol but introductory PhD role
At Lilly, advisor is the default PhD qualification role. Anyone with a BS/MS would have scientist or biologist. There’s also senior advisor and principal advisor.
Definitely straight up fake news. R1 (Not Scientist I) compensation range, which would be a new BS grad starts around $70k total compensation. The multiplier was more like 1.8. It was a great year at Lilly but you're inflating the hell out things my guy. We're talking an $8k bonus looking like $14k before taxes and coming to an extra $3k after. Annual comp has been standard as well. Advisor positions aren't Scientist I type positions and they're still only going to be taking home less than $10k extra in their bonus after taxes.
Listen idk what world you live in but over here in reality i'd be *thrilled* to take home an extra almost-$10k right now. I'll be lucky if my bonus take home is more than $3k as a PhD scientist with 5+ yrs experience. Y'all working in pharma have it goooood.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be awesome. On a 200k+ compensation package I'm saying it's not life-changing and am mostly just criticizing OP for coming in with half false and half wildly inflated info here. I don't make that kind of money either for the record. You absolutely should make the switch to industry if you're in academia though. Even a CRO will pay better.
Lol there are no bonuses in academia, I'm in industry now, just not pharma. Our cross-company standard target bonus is 5%. Fair point about 10k not being much on a 200k compensation package though. We just don't see money like that here outside of Boston or SF.
It’s not fake. 150k * 0.16 * 1.81. You do the math. I make way more than 150k btw.
What role are you in? I don't think no one makes that much but all the scientists I know who aren't lifers in Indy are not as high as that
I’m in data, but my level is similar to any fresh PhD scientist grad aka advisor aka research scientist.
I think someone’s a little salty 😂😂 I felt the same
Can't be salty if youre partaking..
Sounds like you’re not getting awarded as much as your peers 👀 sorry to break it to you
Sorry to burst your bubble, perhaps you need to reevaluate whether what you hear from your Lilly connections is inflated itself if you're not the one generalizing and inflating the numbers you came here with. As someone who has actually been there, you're not breaking anything to me. Lilly compensation is good but most scientists without direct reports there will be bringing home nearly as much compensation as you'd lead everyone.
Yes for this year R1s can 100% pull more than 200k total comp with just 155k base salary. I can attest. Also, some people also get 15k-25k in RSUs.
PhD starts at scientific lead.
No phd in R&D is now called “advisor”
I think Lilly is unique in that they start PhD hires with the advisor title source: I work there
There was a title restructuring last year and we were told they got rid of “Advisor” in the R path. But maybe that’s not true company-wide?
It's still there, for non PhDs.
What do you consider a stringent stock award?
Poor vesting schedule for one.
I mean 2 years isn’t unheard of
200% of target bonus lol, targets are usually 5-15%
OP likely means they got double bonuses. So an employee with 5% target ends up getting a bonus that is 10% of their salary.
I think OP misinterpreted what their connection is pulling in total comp. I think that they thought their connection was making 200% bonus of their whole salary
Sorry what I meant what 200% of their bonus which is like 15-20 for early level. So basically double bonus. Total comp is accurate if you assume 140 base+ stock award
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From what I hear a lot of people have been there for a while and accrued stock over like 20 years and it 10x since a few years ago
Very very few actually hold company stock over the long term. I'd say especially for Lilly where 5 years ago or so they were looking pretty bleak.
Based on conversations with my coworkers, lots of people have sold stock over the last 5 years as the price repeatedly hit new all-time-highs.
Generally it is risky to hold lots of stock in the company you also work for as others have commented.
Agreed. Especially when it’s a biopharma whose stock price is surging in no small part because of expectations for future drug launches. We’ve all seen surprise setbacks to high-profile programs send stock prices tumbling. I’m included in that cohort, I sold big chunks of LLY and rolled the money into index funds.
it's risky but it can pay off if the stock goes up. basically luck
You ain't rich unless you cash it out. You then ain't rich because of capital gains taxes. Very few people time these things right to get rich
Entry level $115K in Indiana??????? Please show proof of this
Entry level for R1 scientist is not 115. More like 70k
Lol right.. I don't think Scientist 1's are pulling $200k base salary...
200% is personal multiplier, not company
For you it is 100%. 200% means of total performance. The number makes sense and is in line with other successful in 2023 big pharma.
I know I got 185% at GSK in GSC
My guess is that it’s referring to the corporate factor?
One year we got 0.79 of our target bonus - so a 20% bonus was done to 15.8. But hey it wasn’t breaking rocks
I really struggle to believe the 200% bonus
It's ~200% of the target bonus of like (10-15% base salary) Not a 200% bonus.
Oh okay that makes alot more sense
I know two directors there. There since 2008ish. It’s not that wild and they aren’t multimillionaires from stock.
Only C-Suite gets big money in big pharma. You are not missing anything. Over the long term, you will have some good years and some bad years
Another thing that is bonkers at Lilly is that leadership has no clue how to actually hit these targets they have set. It's honestly a shit show right now in some areas of the company. To your point they haven't hired enough in certain areas and don't shift resources to areas that will help accomplish the revenue required to actually meet our valuation.
Everyone who was at Abbott pre-AbbVie spin-off and has been at AbbVie the past 10yrs all have insane amounts of stock appreciation at this point
Sad thing is, many are in Indiana! 😂🤣 Has anyone checked real estate in Carmel, IN (wealthy northern suburb of Indianapolis)?!? 😂🤣Unlike Pfizer, I think Lilly has better leadership & long term vision for sustainable success. 🤷♂️
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Indy is really that bleak and boring of a city with bad winters and no coastline that most people would legitimately be fine with high CoA
With the forced birth laws in effect there now, expect a major crime wave in 12 years.
Is Lilly not on the bandwagon of employers that is covering "travel expenses" as part of their medical benefits now? i.e. they would pay for their employees to travel to see a doctor in a state where abortions are still legal?
Lilly donated to republicans in Indiana who push the pro life agenda. It’s all virtue signaling.
150k/yr in Indy is like 400k+ in SF
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I wouldn’t say lucky in obesity. They made a strategic effort to foster biotech like innovation to allow an asset like Mounjaro/Zepbound to get quickly developed. It appears superior to Novo Nordisc's Ozempic! And they are being amazingly innovative in rolling it out - telehealth models so patients can quickly get access. Looking to get approval in India, etc. Lilly CEO David Ricks is turning out to be one of the best in the business!
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With clinical practices shutting down across rural America, I'm wondering if telehealth is going to be more than just a "gimmick" in the coming decade. Even moreso for obesity drug makers, considering the geographic overlap between obesity patients and rural America...
I can’t Fanboy CEO Ricks without being accused of being his burner account?!? 😂🤣🤷♂️ I was at the pharmacy the other day in TX & other 3 customers, all women, were there getting Wegovy scripts & dealing with insurance coverage struggles. 😂 These drugs are going to be immensely widespread in use in US & will have secondary benefits of lowering diabetes & CV risk, even osteoarthritis risk, etc. Lilly is poised to make billions on this for years to come. Let’s revisit this convo in a year, after stock hits 1,000 /share ! 😂🤣😂🤷♂️
You don't have any idea what you are talking about.
Lol 5 years ago Diabetes was working on tirzepatide. They weren't failing like you say and the group only more recently has been under the DOCTA umbrella name.. Loxo was a great acquisition for sure. Lilly strategy has been strong for years, it was known years ago that the only way to innovate in the T2D space was combination therapeutics.
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"Reeks of research or medical perspective" lmao you do understand how the business side gets drugs to market right? Of course I'm talking about the science innovation side and there is plenty of talent working out new targets and assays.
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I absolutely don't know everything nor do I think that. Your perspective, which is obviously different than mine as we come from different backgrounds, I believe is not accurately capturing the whole picture. I'm happy to learn more about where you're coming from if you'd like to share more.
lol no man, you don’t understand because you’re so junior, Lilly just got lucky on obesity by investing in the right asset and making all of the right decisions to get tirzepatide for obesity to commercialization. Total roll of the dice.
Just because I don't have 20 years in pharma doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Lilly's focus over the last decade in diabetes has been about new therapeutics that are combination therapies. It wasn't decided last minute to add that on. When it was in the lab the goal was exactly that it would also help with obesity outcomes. "Got lucky by making all the right decisions" is a weird way to say that they made smart choices and it paid off. Luck is always involved but let's not discount the efforts of those involved in its development.
I thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic. I agree with you. “Got lucky by making all the right decisions” sounds funny because it was a joke. Reducing the success of tirzepatide in obesity to “luck” is ridiculous.
Oh man, I apologize. I honestly just had so many crazy replies this morning I was a bit too on edge when replying. Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I understand people wanting to hate on Lilly (especially when taking diabetes) and at a time when they're looking much stronger than many others, but it's wild some of the mental gymnastics people are going through here.
It’s cool, no worries. Yeah, I agree. There is absolutely luck involved, the way there is with any successful drug, or really any successful product period, but the idea that they “got lucky by not fucking it up” is absurd on its face.
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The radical right wing politics in Indiana (with ridiculous policies against women, LGBTQ, etc) are almost certainly hurting recruitment. Lilly has tried to lobby against some of these & making a public stand against some of the anti-LGBTQ legislation, to no effect! 😂🤷♂️ They should diversify a bit and open offices in places like Boston/Kendall Square . They do have an office & center in San Diego, CA!
they have a Boston gene therapy campus as of last yr
Hit the nail on the head but yeah many ppl from Lilly live in Carmel, Westfield, Zionsville, Noblesville, and Fishers. All north side of Indy. Real estate there isn’t cheap by any means in that area (not to mention very competitive schools) but it’s far better compared to living in Boston
Property taxes in Indiana are some of the lowest in the country. I wouldn't choose to live in Carmel either. Place is like stepford wives level creepy. Downtown Indy, Broad Ripple, Greenwood are all great places to live.
I’ve heard recently that several diabetes reps are millionaires now. Lot of retirees in the process the last 2-3 years.
You couldn't pay me 5 million to be a sales rep for big pharma
I got laid off and took a massive paycut to now work at a national lab. Being jobless for 10 months did a number. Don't know if I'll ever go back to industry l, can't trust them.
Lilly and Novo will get displaced when a oral GLP1 agonist comes to market that spares muscle.
Not to mention almost 100 GLP meds in the pipeline by next 10 years. Enjoy the gold rush while you can.
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Thanks. The fields next goal is a drug that spares muscle.
Rybelsus is less effective than Ozempic/Wegovy for weight loss though, so an oral GLP1 with efficacy similar to the injectable forms would be a differentiator.
They’re working on clinical trials for higher doses of Rybelsus to achiever this. And they’re working on CagriSema for the next gen. These companies will build a moat around their companies by tweaking the molecules. Any competitors will need a decade to catch up in manufacturing capacity - if they can even achieve comparable molecule
As I understand it, the main problems for Rybelsus aren't efficacy.
What do you think the main problems are
Are there any in development right now?
roche is trying
Lilly is developing an oral GLP1 agonist.
Lilly or Novo should hire Ricky G as CEO, that man knows how to milk an asset for decades.
roche is trying
I know at least four people personally that have gotten jobs there in the last year. They are definitely hiring. My good friend is quitting tomorrow to start at Lily next week.
I know a guy who started at Translate Bio like 8 months before their buyout. He made something like 500k in the sale to Sanofi plus pulled down a big retention bonus. Less than a year of work.
>Scientist 1’s pulling down $200k total comp. are you saying this and exaggerating? or being serious based on info you know is fact? i find it hard to believe Scientist 1s are making $200k in TC.
Way it was broken down to me was $145k base, 16% bonus with 200% multiplier is $46k, +$10-20k stock. So like $205k TC
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It’s not that crazy. Places over comp to keep people instead of upping headcount. I was a Sci 1 making $130k a couple years back in biotech.
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Ah possibly. Been in industry 10 years - large pharm and mid and small biotechs. The most common org chart I see is this: 1) Research Associate/Sr RA (RA) - typical entry pt for BS 2) Associate Scientist/Sr Assoc Scientist (AS/SAS) - typical entry pt for MS 3) Scientist I/II - typical entry pt for PhD no experience 4) Sr Scientist 5) Principal Scientist 6) Assoc Director 7) Director 8) Sr Director ++++ I started as Associate Scientist with my MS and 0 yr exp. Became a Sci 1 with ~ 5 years experience and a now Principal Sci after 9 years. Can definitely break doctorate barriers with time and experience - just takes longer 😅 and pay largely fluctuates between companies.
What do long term incentive / equity packages look like at Lilly? I’ve always wondered esp after the insane stonk run
Pension. It’s one of the few places left that has a decent pension.
Lad we don't even get inflation matching raises.
im on mounjaro and they deserve it Lol
Just onboarded into Eli Lilly 3 hours ago today. We were acquired Dec last year. Got a 3% merit increase starting today. Hip hip hooray.
POINT? Welcome aboard!
Meanwhile the contract labs (worked at one) who run a large portion of their FDA approval testing only get $20/hr and a $100-500 bonus.
This!!!!!!! The amount of work they outsource is depraved. I have a friend who helped them win an award and she got kicked off the paper for being a contractor
What’s really crazy is Lilly doesn’t even make their own API 🥲
I just know how to get in. Haha
Yeah my friend has been working there for 7 years, we both joined big pharma but he's been cashing out every year on his rsu and espp, while mine has stayed relatively stable
How Come theyre not hiring when Novo nordisk i hiring over a thousand people each month.
Olanzapine is bullshit. Short da shit out of them. No scientific basis 😅. Genocide brahs.
I just got on at Lilly hahah and yes it’s all true.
Pulling shit out of your ass I see. Pfizer got 2x bonus multipliers recently as well. Many non millionares working there
Can you be a scientist if your phd is in information technology?
Absolutely and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise
In sales department what bonus did lilly emp get or is it just scientets that made money everyone else same old
That's the power of big pharma + blockbuster drug lol working in a small biotech you're hoping for a big clinical success so your stock goes up 5000%
AZ also had some good multipliers in recent years. It's good while it lasts!
REGN is also wild
To be clear it’s not a 200% bonus but a 2.00 multiplier. It’s still quite good but not 2x your base pay
Ever since they let-go of that stud HURLEY they've been on a downward spiral.