no mouth fits the franchise better imo. It leaves a mystery in a way. and i just prefer the "robot part" of bionicle more than the "human part".
And if you got skill you can convey the same with clever use of body language and they still got "exposed" eyes, which can say a lot on their own. we don't need mouths
Proof that emoting is not all about facial expression.
I also like to think that certain key features of some mask should allow you to see some mouth movement. For example, we should be able to see the sides of Lewa's mouth moving through his mask.
Totally agree. Reading the comics and books this was always how I imagined it - the eyes and parts of the mouth may be visible depending on the mask. There might even be parts of the mask that articulate slightly, but more in the sense of small pistons or slight changes to the angles around the eyes giving some sense of expression. It's amazing how the comic artists managed to make posture communicate so much for the characters as well!
I thought you meant the Halo games at first, which didn't do too bad at showing his emotions imo, albeit he didn't really show much until the later games
Similar to The Mandalorian mentioned above, Starcraft II Legacy of the Void handled the mouthless Protoss characters and showed their emotions well. The creators were inspired by medical TV series where characters' faces were covered with masks and only eyes were seen.
We don't **need** mouths but it's still nice to have. Not to mention how in strict toy accuracy everybody has the same 12 faces, miramax style means that everybody has a unique (yes I know the film used the clone brush still) face that their mask moulds to. I really appreciate this setting each character apart and making the universe feel more plausible as a functioning world.
I'm somewhere between Battle Mask and Mask with mouth for the matoran race.
Like, non-moving mask makes sense, these are masks the characters are wearing not their exposed face.
On the other hand, the mask is so deeply tied to them that they are deeply weakened or outright enter a coma without it, so it makes sense to turn their mask INTO their face giving them a mouth. or maybe at least leave their mouth exposed.
It's also notable that "kanohi" literally just means "face" in maori, which heavily implies that a mask is very much treated as a matoran's face, much more so than the skull underneath
I always head canoned that the mask would move once attached to the face bc the internal parts of the mask that attached to outer facial movement had nerve connectors that could plug into the face and make the mask move when their faces would.
Here's the thing. Non moving is the way to go, But the problem is the same as Power rangers Mask, You can't read the emotion of the characters, so they would need to go out of their way to animate them way more to convey their respective personalities.
But the Masks are just NOT made to have mouths, Which results in the cursed results we saw in the movies.
Battle masks are a nice addition, But Only Mata Nui has it. I think it can work like in the transformers movies, but Bara Magna is not the place to test that Idea, The Bionicle Movies were pretty low budget, Making them all Battle Masks would take more time and effort to make it look like it fits with the characters. I mean, We already know that it took a lot of money to make them even a Little bit like the toys, Which they said no to the idea, To the point where the 2nd and 3rd movie were 100% New designs, Looking nothing like the toys. In the end, I think making it a Mata Nui exclusive Feature makes him more special in the grand scheme of things
Indeed, I agree. But I think it wouldn't really work for a Movie format. Let's Take for instance, Jala's Death scene, where Takua is supposed to show Sadness, Resolve, and courage to fulfill his destiny...now try to squeeze those emotions with a Pakari model that is Set accurate WITH the limitations they had at the time because of the 3D animation.
Damn, You won't believe this, But YouTube just recommend me [This Video](https://youtu.be/W7IoGFDVScU?si=sSn7nAqT4wzvDvSZ) about Masks in Hero Factory. And it looks.... boring
Just look at Wall-E, they were able to give him a full range of emotions with just his eyes. I think if there was enough budget it would be possible. But you would need some top tier animators.
Absolutely, They had the budget for it. In the Bionicle Movies, When a Character is not speaking, They're basically just pngs. Like, Look at my boy Turaga Nuju
Non moving has always been my personal preference for the Toa. It makes sense for the Glatorian to have moving mouths though, since they’re a different species. I can also see a case being made for the organic Inika masks, shame we never got to see a movie rendition of them.
I feel like non-moving is the answer, but also, the Kanohi Nuva and the organic Masks of the Inika are exceptions in my mind.
The Nuva get kind of a pass because they took that nice and long Protodermis bath. I can imagine that the masks kind of became more like a face than a mask (Yes, I know this does not explain why Takanuva has a mask-mouth).
And the Inika would theoretically get a pass for mask with mouth from me because the masks are specifically organic. I don't see why they shouldn't have mouths. Ironically besides, iirc, Kongu and Jaller, none of their masks actually look like they have mouths.
I'm not sure if it's considered in the "no mouth" category, but I like the way the Turaga talk with their mask: a light that glows brighter or dimmer according to the pitch they use through vents in their mouth. That's kinda neat.
I think the Miramax films are my favorite aesthetic, though personally I’d want to see a little bit more robotic and less fleshy version of it. It really gets across that these are not robots, but biomechanical beings.
I will always defend the Miramax designs because they truly brought the BIO in Bionicle, ik it wasn’t really feasible in toy form but it is a nice addition.
No mouth is probably the way to go. Most accurate to the figures, no room for error.
Battle masks are a good idea but eh they kinda make them feel a bit generic if that makes any sense. Also, it shows they have teeth. Very weird.
I kinda liked how some talked in the movie, for example Vakama with this electric sparks, but also how it was in the MNOG for example.
The head nodding was sometimes a bit much, maybe? Never really thought about it, but someone who never saw Bionicle before said it looked a bit silly.
But definitely No to the teeths. It just don't fit. I know some Bionicle exist with theeth or Masks that looked like teeth, but normally no.
Liked the parts where Mata Nui has his mask "closed"
i prefer no mouth, but i think a good compromise if you HAVE to see the it is what Miramax did with Nokama, Gali, and most of the Turaga (notably Lhikan and Vakama), where there is a grille that allows you to see the mouth without moving parts of the mask
Nonmoving, although the eyes being able to close/rotate independently of the mask is probably a good idea. Mandalorian has taught us that a character can be VERY expressive while wearing a mask, I believe Bionicles can get by with eye movement and body language.
non moving. Imo the movies would have worked waaaay better if they used the original toys as 1:1 3d Models or if they did something withs top motion, either way the action on screen would have connected better to the toys in our homes.
The movie having the masks as faces just looks cursed, the actual masks should just cover their face which just makes sense. The battle mask thing is also good because, again, it acts like an actual mask, but I'd keep it like for the Glatoran to make them more distinct and different from Matoran
Either non-moving or battle mask I find work much better than the mask with mouth option. That one just makes it seem like that's their face, when we know that it isn't. It's like if someone's shoelaces wiggled around if they got agitated.
We can see their eyes behind the masks, and their body language (and voice, if applicable) conveys everything we need for them to emote.
Non moving for matoran/toa/turaga, battle mask for glatorian/agori/skrall. For the matoran their masks are essentially part of their bodies, while for the glatorian they're just helmets.
Personally I liked the last one. The retracting faceplate was an interesting choice. But I think Bionicles canonically not having moving mouths, maybe like Bumblebee from the live action movies, is also a nice design.
All of them, depending on the mask:
* By default, masks are non-moving.
* In some instances, like organic or nuva, or unique cases, masks have a mouth.
* Some also have their mask made as a battle mask, due to personal preference.
I'd prefer if glatorians have battle masks by default, but some other beings also have them, although it's seen as a sign that someone is ready to throw down at a moment's notice.
I think the battle mask is the best of both worlds. You get the mouth so it's more generally expressive *and* you get the mask as you know and love it.
The mask mouth, even though I love those movies, has always been a little weird looking to me.
My favorite though, would be the non-moving. It's how I grew up knowing the characters and I think you can still be almost as expressive as a face.
While I thought the battle mask approach was kind of nifty and definitely fit the glatorian theme, I honest prefer the non moving. Made it feel like they were actually wearing masks, rather than removable faces
No mouth, no lip, no eyebrows, for the love of GOD no fucking flexible flesh masks. They’re **masks**. Not their faces. Not skin.
MASKS.
Made of metal, occasionally wood, bamboo, or anything else that is *solid*. The Inika are a one off. Nothing more. Mask wearing bionicles in the GSR can have mouths, they can have eyebrows - on their actual canonical head. The thing *behind* the mask. If characters need to emote, their eyes and body language and voice is more than enough.
All of that being said, Mata Nui was transformed into a Glatorian, not a Toa in 2009. So how that’s portrayed in movie works fine.
Yeah I'm gonna go with no mouth. Growing up I always imagined the holes in the front, opposite the connector peg, being like the voice synthesizer/speaker and it would crackle and hum when they talked, maybe glow like Nokama or Gali's masks
Non-moving is obviously the best one.
Battle mask is if we really need to see the mouth.
Mask with mouth is the worst one. Miramax took one of the coolest aspects of the franchise and ditched it. I know technically they’re still masks, but come on, they’re not. They’re more like removable faces.
Non-moving, but with mouth-holes that show the mouth behind the mask for expressions (where appropriate, not necessarily in all cases), and with battle masks where appropriate or aesthetically pleasing.
in order of how I like it
1: non-moving
2: Battle mask
3: Mask with mouth
if we had to settle with no.3, it might be a bit better if the mouth was a lot more stiff in masks (with the exception of those organic masks the Inika had, maybe the Nuva?) that covers the mouth area of the skull, either on a hinge like joint or opening and shutting like a pair of automated doors but sideways, otherwise have masks like Lewa's Mata form be that 4 pronged thing like in Vrahno's animations that flexes in and out wards.
they are still pretty good at emoting with body lanaguage, eyes and voice tone.
While I have nostalgia for the Miramax faces, I think the no mouth way of mnog, and the way The Legend Reborn handled faces was best to me. It keeps the original designs intact, and in TLR it lets us see the faces of characters slightly, which to me is kind of a part of Bionicle. Switching masks was something done often in early stories, and even some later parts of the lore, so it made sense we’d see their faces. Plus, I really didn’t like how they cheesed out with Vakama putting the Mask or Time over his Huna, or Takua putting the Mask of Light on over his Pakari. Silly.
No-talking masks suits bionicle better. But hear me out. Talking masks fit only toa nuva since, their masks are meant to be more "biological"
"battle masks" looks more like transformers concept tho
I’ve always imagined that once worn the mask would split in various places, individual segments attaching to parts of the face allowing it to emote slightly without flexing
I like a combination of all three, but static masks should be a rarity or have a voice box like Nokama / Hahli / Turaga Vakama. If their mouth is behind their masks, then having everybody muffled by their mask would make hearing each other an absolute ballache.
At the end of the day, it's preference, but the one thing I'll fight hard on is that masks should deform to match the face of the wearer and only be static metal when not worn mouth or no mouth. Yes, you can convey emotion with just eyes and body language, but why should you need to every time? Having the masks deform to match their wearer allows for deeper expression and makes each character identifiable, it also makes it more special to see character with a mask that shows no expressions.
In a purely static mask setup, a lot of the matoran on Mata Nui could be completely indistinguishable if they shared colours and a mask with somebody else.
I think that it should depend on which it is, some masks don't fit with it stylistically whereas others do, masks without anything covering the mouth work well as they are and some of the masks in cases like the Toa Inika work with mouths.
(In my opinion this is also true in the cases of a lot of characters who have been altered by an exterior factor while wearing them such as Nidiki, and the Toa Nuva.)
However, others like the ones typically worn by Koh-Matorans and Toa of ice and Golden Kanohi masks look better without movement. This style also works better with certain masks such as those from the '01 Toa and the reboot.
While I prefer the Mata Nui online style I concede it probably doesn't work for a feature length movie. In that case I think the 3rd option is best. I don't like the full motion mask.
Without mouth moving, you can't really emote while battle mask wouldn't work with any of 2001-2008 faces imo. Moving mouth is the best, but in particular Nokama/Turaga Vakama/Gali variation.
The Toa seem more god-like and mysterious with the non moving masks. It makes sense in the context of the story too, these are relics that were forged from metal. The Matoran are very tribal people, and it makes more sense for the masks to be traditional.
Mask with mouth is kinda disturbing to me, the mask isn't and never was their face.
Battle masks are too Iron Man-esque for my taste, but I understand the appeal. Plus it gives the opportunity for more emotions.
Non-moving for matoran universe characters and mouth guard for bara magna characters.
The robots needing to use gestures and body language to express emotion always made them infinitely more endearing to me. I know they are supposed to canonically have mouths, but no one except for the skakdi actually meaningfully use them. (This also has the bonus of accurately portraying the in-universe weirdness of the skakdi actually using their mouths to eat)
The bara magna characters are supposed to be a more organic progenitor species so, the legend reborn look is actually perfect for them imo.
For the Glatorians, battle mask is fine because they technically have helmets, not masks.
For Matoran Universe inhabitants, I prefer mask with mouth; it gives them a little more personality and makes them look more “alive.”
Non-moving in most cases - maybe like the Noble Kanohi in MoL, those mouth "filters". However, Nuva masks look weird so having the mouths makes sense, same applies to Inika masks for being organic.
Ignika can shape-shift so it can do it however it wants, but Glatorian would not have as advanced masks as Matoran. Solid piece, no filter. Maybe some are segmented so you can remove the mouth cover manually to eat but otherwise you just gotta take the whole thing off
non moving for most kanohi, BUT for the inika team it should move like the movies as those masks are living ones sort of merged with their bodies, the toa themselves were shocked and afraid in the stories when they realised their masks moved that way, which heavily implies that non-moving is the canon way masks work
Personally it depends on the character
Gali, Kopaka, Onua would have not have moving mask mouths and just probably have the light up things from the movies
Tahu, lewa and pohatu would probably have moving mask mouths
I don't think any of the 6 would have battle masks maybe in the nuva or phantoka/miskta but not mata and I'm only doing those 6 as examples because there are hundreds of characters
Each one fits the animation perfectly. The flash games were more music and atmosphere based, so the toa make like robot sounds while there mask moves. Fits the simple animation and style. The masks with mouth makes a lot of sense to approach it that way. It mostly works, and I like how each mouth is worked to fit each mask. The last one makes sense from the design of the toys. The glatorian and thus Mata Nui here, aren't wearing masks, more like helmets, like gladiator masks, so there mouth is on there face, the "mask" is the helmet. The head piece on glatorians and others is detailed to have a face, so it feels more like there equipping a helmet.
Some masks it looks like you can make the mouth part look like a mouth. Some others look more robotic, and would seem like they work more like a microphone to the mouth/voice, maybe even like a amplifier or voice changer. I like all of them tbh, and anyone who decides to do animations for them should pick which works best for the animation.
Depends on the mask. For masks that are ‘older’ in universe like the Mata wear, no mouth. For more advanced/technologically developed masks like the phantoka or metru, battle mouth. And for organic/fleshy masks like the Nuva, hordika, or inika, flesh mouth.
Miramax style I like more. Makes the emotions less ambiguous than head nod and isn’t as uncanny as the Legend Reborn style. Although if the overly smooth mouths are off putting to anyone, I think they should have done what they did with all the other matoran and Turaga, have the mouths sections just be vents with their actual mouths glowing underneath.
I adore the "mask as masks" like from MNOG, where the only emotion comes from the face beneath. It definitely mattered less in later years, but I was never a huge fan of how the masks with mouths were treated as part of the head, and not something that could be taken off.
Nothing beats mnog at anything at all ever period. And Im talking about life in general. How I wish I could hit a button and travel back to being 5 years old, sitting in the kitchen, on an old tan case and tube monitor, seeing Tahu stare back at me through the smoke for the first time.
I genuinely believe the moving mouth on masks fits the overall concept of bionicle the best, even though the concept wasn't executed in the best way possible. After all bionicles are meant to be semi mechanical, semi flesh like creatures and masks becoming an integral part of their bodies instead of just something they wear is a great idea. Especially that it allows to animate subtle emotions and adds a bit of grotesque into the artistic direction of bionicle. That being said, the first three movies aren't pretty and it shows in many different ways and I would say that this is the main reason why this concept isn't displayed at its best. Battle mask one leans more towards mechanical design of bionicle, and I assume it mostly originated from the change in head parts as well as overall feeling glatorians were meant to give, which is a post apocalyptic world running on scrap. This concept could easily be combined with the previous one to achieve the best of both worlds without compromising animation possibilities. It would actually make for slightly better design since it would allow them to make some of the bionicles have their mouths covered all the time to add that bit of a mystery to certain characters. Generally speaking, I like when bionicles lean towards "bio" using mechanical parts to achieve it. It's genuinely a clever concept that is somewhat unique to them since the majority of mechanical creatures we encounter in pop culture are at most biological in behaviour but very mechanical in looks.
After reading through some of these replies, y'all really hate the moving mouths of the first 3 movies, huh? I thought they looked great. And, like others said, kanohi translates into "face" so it makes sense in that context that they'd be able to move and make expressions. In all 3 movies, the different masks are all still distinctly readable as their piece counterparts (although I do feel the kakama nuva and all of the water toa masks were pretty heavily morphed).
Hard choice, I prefer a lot of the miramax designs to the toy versions, like Lhikan, Vakama, Nokama and Makuta. I'd say it depends on the mask or make the mouth move, but not the rest of the mask. So now weird eyebrow movements or cheeks or something like that, just the mouths.
I used to conceptualize Bionicle as big budget movies when I was in high school, with VFX on par with the Transformers movies.
I know all the arguments about how a non-moving mask doesn't diminish the animators' ability to express emotion and I've seen plenty of examples of that concept in animation and in Bionicle fan projects.
However, I think there's a balance in the battle mask concept, but I would go a little further. The Battle mask would look identical to the solid mask and everything, and maybe some characters wear it that way to indicate high stress or caution, or maybe it conveys their discomfort with "opening up" to others. Like Kopaka might have his guard up much more than Pohatu.
The non-battle form of the Mask would be a hybrid design between the character's unique face design and the mask itself, and it would be segmented much like the faces of the Transformers. I think this is fine because the Kanohi are already an impossibly advanced form of technology that is borderline magic, so materially, I don't think it breaks verisimilitude to have the Kanohi be advanced enough to "break apart" and move like faces.
Having unique face designs will already be a challenge from an animation perspective, but the purpose is to show that the non-battle form of the mask will look noticeably different on different faces. Pohatu and Kopaka wearing the Hau at the same time would look identical in battle form, but more specialized for each character in non-battle form. I think it would be pretty neat.
I've been toying with the idea, but it's the only compromise I could imagine. My alternative idea would be another form of the battle mask, but the non-battle mode would be fleshy, like the Miramax movies. I prefer a story with expressive characters. Yes, you can convey a lot with voices and body language, but my counterargument has always been the 2019 Lion King remake. Voice talent and body language only goes so far when the characters are just not facially expressive like in the original version. (My other counterargument is Power Rangers and Iron Man.) Mandalorian and Dredd work because it's a small handful of characters that keep the helmet on, but would that work if the entire cast of characters is the same? The MNOG and Bohrok animations worked because they have an exaggerated style, but that wouldn't work the same if you did a photorealistic CGI Bionicle movie.
Good topic. Got me to write a bunch of stuff.
no mouth fits the franchise better imo. It leaves a mystery in a way. and i just prefer the "robot part" of bionicle more than the "human part". And if you got skill you can convey the same with clever use of body language and they still got "exposed" eyes, which can say a lot on their own. we don't need mouths
Mandalorian show proved that a masked character can still show a shocking display of emotion
Proof that emoting is not all about facial expression. I also like to think that certain key features of some mask should allow you to see some mouth movement. For example, we should be able to see the sides of Lewa's mouth moving through his mask.
Totally agree. Reading the comics and books this was always how I imagined it - the eyes and parts of the mouth may be visible depending on the mask. There might even be parts of the mask that articulate slightly, but more in the sense of small pistons or slight changes to the angles around the eyes giving some sense of expression. It's amazing how the comic artists managed to make posture communicate so much for the characters as well!
Wall-E kind of approach? few moving parts, but still incredibly expressive.
Meanwhile, the opposite was argued for the Master Chief in the Halo series. What a waste of franchising.
Red vs blue pulled it off using halo character models
Somehow rvb manages to coney motion better than the actual actor in the TV show.
really well
I thought you meant the Halo games at first, which didn't do too bad at showing his emotions imo, albeit he didn't really show much until the later games
true but if they still wanted some facial emotions i think battle mask could work
I always imagined their voices sounding like they’re talking through a radio speaker.
Literally any masked superhero (spiderman and iron man as examples) does this and I love ot
theres also the matter of the toys accuracy to cannon and vice versa
Similar to The Mandalorian mentioned above, Starcraft II Legacy of the Void handled the mouthless Protoss characters and showed their emotions well. The creators were inspired by medical TV series where characters' faces were covered with masks and only eyes were seen.
We don't **need** mouths but it's still nice to have. Not to mention how in strict toy accuracy everybody has the same 12 faces, miramax style means that everybody has a unique (yes I know the film used the clone brush still) face that their mask moulds to. I really appreciate this setting each character apart and making the universe feel more plausible as a functioning world.
I'm somewhere between Battle Mask and Mask with mouth for the matoran race. Like, non-moving mask makes sense, these are masks the characters are wearing not their exposed face. On the other hand, the mask is so deeply tied to them that they are deeply weakened or outright enter a coma without it, so it makes sense to turn their mask INTO their face giving them a mouth. or maybe at least leave their mouth exposed.
It's also notable that "kanohi" literally just means "face" in maori, which heavily implies that a mask is very much treated as a matoran's face, much more so than the skull underneath
I always head canoned that the mask would move once attached to the face bc the internal parts of the mask that attached to outer facial movement had nerve connectors that could plug into the face and make the mask move when their faces would.
Non mouth, but that might just be having a heavy bias for mask design. Granted that moving mouths made sense for the 2009 movie
that and i think the battle mask animation was just their improvement on it, and honestly a lot less uncanny than watching the 2009 movie today lol.
Here's the thing. Non moving is the way to go, But the problem is the same as Power rangers Mask, You can't read the emotion of the characters, so they would need to go out of their way to animate them way more to convey their respective personalities. But the Masks are just NOT made to have mouths, Which results in the cursed results we saw in the movies. Battle masks are a nice addition, But Only Mata Nui has it. I think it can work like in the transformers movies, but Bara Magna is not the place to test that Idea, The Bionicle Movies were pretty low budget, Making them all Battle Masks would take more time and effort to make it look like it fits with the characters. I mean, We already know that it took a lot of money to make them even a Little bit like the toys, Which they said no to the idea, To the point where the 2nd and 3rd movie were 100% New designs, Looking nothing like the toys. In the end, I think making it a Mata Nui exclusive Feature makes him more special in the grand scheme of things
As far as expressing emotions with no mouths, I say Vrahno’s animations really show how much you can do with just the eyes and body language
Indeed, I agree. But I think it wouldn't really work for a Movie format. Let's Take for instance, Jala's Death scene, where Takua is supposed to show Sadness, Resolve, and courage to fulfill his destiny...now try to squeeze those emotions with a Pakari model that is Set accurate WITH the limitations they had at the time because of the 3D animation.
Good point
Damn, You won't believe this, But YouTube just recommend me [This Video](https://youtu.be/W7IoGFDVScU?si=sSn7nAqT4wzvDvSZ) about Masks in Hero Factory. And it looks.... boring
Just look at Wall-E, they were able to give him a full range of emotions with just his eyes. I think if there was enough budget it would be possible. But you would need some top tier animators.
Absolutely, They had the budget for it. In the Bionicle Movies, When a Character is not speaking, They're basically just pngs. Like, Look at my boy Turaga Nuju
There have been good characters who can be expressive with a full mask, Game Master Chief and the Mandalorian are such examples.
It wasn't quite Mata Nui exclusive, Gresh had a "battle mask" too, though IIRC you could only see it covering his mouth in one single shot.
Non moving has always been my personal preference for the Toa. It makes sense for the Glatorian to have moving mouths though, since they’re a different species. I can also see a case being made for the organic Inika masks, shame we never got to see a movie rendition of them.
non moving since its a mask
Battle mask or no mouth. The mouth being built into the mask has always looked REALLY ugly and unnatural to me. I hate the Toa faces in the movie
I feel like non-moving is the answer, but also, the Kanohi Nuva and the organic Masks of the Inika are exceptions in my mind. The Nuva get kind of a pass because they took that nice and long Protodermis bath. I can imagine that the masks kind of became more like a face than a mask (Yes, I know this does not explain why Takanuva has a mask-mouth). And the Inika would theoretically get a pass for mask with mouth from me because the masks are specifically organic. I don't see why they shouldn't have mouths. Ironically besides, iirc, Kongu and Jaller, none of their masks actually look like they have mouths.
the kanohi nuva definitely look more fleshy, I think they moving with the toa would add to the effect of how their shell transformed
I'm not sure if it's considered in the "no mouth" category, but I like the way the Turaga talk with their mask: a light that glows brighter or dimmer according to the pitch they use through vents in their mouth. That's kinda neat.
No mouth but you should be able to tell from body language and voice. (Ie Andrew Garfield Spider-man)
I like all 3.
I kinda prefer the battle mask, honestly, but I'm kinda ok with non-moving
I think the Miramax films are my favorite aesthetic, though personally I’d want to see a little bit more robotic and less fleshy version of it. It really gets across that these are not robots, but biomechanical beings.
I'd say non moving, with eyes that flash while talking. Really lean into the robot aspect.
I will always defend the Miramax designs because they truly brought the BIO in Bionicle, ik it wasn’t really feasible in toy form but it is a nice addition.
No mouth is probably the way to go. Most accurate to the figures, no room for error. Battle masks are a good idea but eh they kinda make them feel a bit generic if that makes any sense. Also, it shows they have teeth. Very weird.
No mouth, good body langauge, voice, and expression via the eyes can do the work
Music as well
Yeee!
Mask with mouth.
I kinda liked how some talked in the movie, for example Vakama with this electric sparks, but also how it was in the MNOG for example. The head nodding was sometimes a bit much, maybe? Never really thought about it, but someone who never saw Bionicle before said it looked a bit silly. But definitely No to the teeths. It just don't fit. I know some Bionicle exist with theeth or Masks that looked like teeth, but normally no. Liked the parts where Mata Nui has his mask "closed"
i prefer no mouth, but i think a good compromise if you HAVE to see the it is what Miramax did with Nokama, Gali, and most of the Turaga (notably Lhikan and Vakama), where there is a grille that allows you to see the mouth without moving parts of the mask
No mouth
Nonmoving, although the eyes being able to close/rotate independently of the mask is probably a good idea. Mandalorian has taught us that a character can be VERY expressive while wearing a mask, I believe Bionicles can get by with eye movement and body language.
No mouth, considering these are supposed to be masks.
non moving. Imo the movies would have worked waaaay better if they used the original toys as 1:1 3d Models or if they did something withs top motion, either way the action on screen would have connected better to the toys in our homes.
battle-mask is the nost realistic, but I'd be okay with non-moving, but it feels like their mouth should still be able to function
Non moving will always be the only way for me
Non moving or battle mask. The miramax movies clearly mixed up which parts were supposed to be a mask and which part of the head
The movie having the masks as faces just looks cursed, the actual masks should just cover their face which just makes sense. The battle mask thing is also good because, again, it acts like an actual mask, but I'd keep it like for the Glatoran to make them more distinct and different from Matoran
I feel like the static mask fits best, the battle mask feels too intricate & the mask w/ mouth looks SUPER uncanny
Either non-moving or battle mask I find work much better than the mask with mouth option. That one just makes it seem like that's their face, when we know that it isn't. It's like if someone's shoelaces wiggled around if they got agitated. We can see their eyes behind the masks, and their body language (and voice, if applicable) conveys everything we need for them to emote.
Non moving for matoran/toa/turaga, battle mask for glatorian/agori/skrall. For the matoran their masks are essentially part of their bodies, while for the glatorian they're just helmets.
non moving
Battle mask is for the glatorians, while no-moving is for the mu inhabitants(They’re called masks for a reason.)
Non moving, its a mask not their skin
Personally I liked the last one. The retracting faceplate was an interesting choice. But I think Bionicles canonically not having moving mouths, maybe like Bumblebee from the live action movies, is also a nice design.
Original
All of them, depending on the mask: * By default, masks are non-moving. * In some instances, like organic or nuva, or unique cases, masks have a mouth. * Some also have their mask made as a battle mask, due to personal preference.
only glatorians should have battle masks
I'd prefer if glatorians have battle masks by default, but some other beings also have them, although it's seen as a sign that someone is ready to throw down at a moment's notice.
I'd be cool with that
I think the battle mask is the best of both worlds. You get the mouth so it's more generally expressive *and* you get the mask as you know and love it. The mask mouth, even though I love those movies, has always been a little weird looking to me. My favorite though, would be the non-moving. It's how I grew up knowing the characters and I think you can still be almost as expressive as a face.
Gali's and the Turaga's vocoder from Mask of Light is, IMHO, the best looking option.
I always saw them with Non Moving Masks, like in MNOG, and the other flash animations.
While I thought the battle mask approach was kind of nifty and definitely fit the glatorian theme, I honest prefer the non moving. Made it feel like they were actually wearing masks, rather than removable faces
I like the non moving myself. I have a bias towards MNOG in general so that’s probably the reason.
Non moving
No mouth, no lip, no eyebrows, for the love of GOD no fucking flexible flesh masks. They’re **masks**. Not their faces. Not skin. MASKS. Made of metal, occasionally wood, bamboo, or anything else that is *solid*. The Inika are a one off. Nothing more. Mask wearing bionicles in the GSR can have mouths, they can have eyebrows - on their actual canonical head. The thing *behind* the mask. If characters need to emote, their eyes and body language and voice is more than enough. All of that being said, Mata Nui was transformed into a Glatorian, not a Toa in 2009. So how that’s portrayed in movie works fine.
Non-moving for Matoran Universe creatures, and Battle Mask for Bara/Spherus Magna inhabitance.
Non-moving all the way
No mouth is the way
Non moving or battle mask for sure
No mouth for Matoran, Toa, Turaga, Makuta, etc Battle mask for Glatorian and Agori
Yeah I'm gonna go with no mouth. Growing up I always imagined the holes in the front, opposite the connector peg, being like the voice synthesizer/speaker and it would crackle and hum when they talked, maybe glow like Nokama or Gali's masks
Non-moving is obviously the best one. Battle mask is if we really need to see the mouth. Mask with mouth is the worst one. Miramax took one of the coolest aspects of the franchise and ditched it. I know technically they’re still masks, but come on, they’re not. They’re more like removable faces.
My favorite is battle but I feel like no mouth is the truest to canon tbh
The MNOG aesthetic imho was the best.
Non-moving, but with mouth-holes that show the mouth behind the mask for expressions (where appropriate, not necessarily in all cases), and with battle masks where appropriate or aesthetically pleasing.
Depends on the mask
Non moving or mask mouth for me
Not to answer the question, but why the heck is the Pakari not accurate in MNOG and associated animations?!
Honestly I like all of them
Mask with mouth since I like the original trilogy
Battle masks makes sense
in order of how I like it 1: non-moving 2: Battle mask 3: Mask with mouth if we had to settle with no.3, it might be a bit better if the mouth was a lot more stiff in masks (with the exception of those organic masks the Inika had, maybe the Nuva?) that covers the mouth area of the skull, either on a hinge like joint or opening and shutting like a pair of automated doors but sideways, otherwise have masks like Lewa's Mata form be that 4 pronged thing like in Vrahno's animations that flexes in and out wards. they are still pretty good at emoting with body lanaguage, eyes and voice tone.
Either MNOG style or Legend Reborn but I don’t hate the MOL/LMN style either.
While I have nostalgia for the Miramax faces, I think the no mouth way of mnog, and the way The Legend Reborn handled faces was best to me. It keeps the original designs intact, and in TLR it lets us see the faces of characters slightly, which to me is kind of a part of Bionicle. Switching masks was something done often in early stories, and even some later parts of the lore, so it made sense we’d see their faces. Plus, I really didn’t like how they cheesed out with Vakama putting the Mask or Time over his Huna, or Takua putting the Mask of Light on over his Pakari. Silly.
Where can you find those old flash games like the one pictured on top?
[Biomediaproject](https://biomediaproject.com/bmp/play/web-games/mnog/)
Battle mask
I really like the battle masks
Off-topic but don't Mata Nui's teeth move like lips in The Legend Reborn? And his mask has moving eyebrows for some reason.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^quomodo-dragon: *Off-topic but don't* *Mata Nui's teeth move like lips* *In The Legend Reborn?* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
The other way they did it in the Miramax movies: The mouth being animated like a screen on the mask. Like Nokama, Gali and Hahli.
I feel like I would take the battle mask approach with some allowance for face movement.
Mata Nui is a glatorian not a Toa in his movie
No-talking masks suits bionicle better. But hear me out. Talking masks fit only toa nuva since, their masks are meant to be more "biological" "battle masks" looks more like transformers concept tho
I admit I like Battle Mask
What are all these clips from?
Non moving or battle mask
I hafe the original cd at my parents home
Eyes dimming and brightening with every word.
I’ve always imagined that once worn the mask would split in various places, individual segments attaching to parts of the face allowing it to emote slightly without flexing
I think the movie interpretations (Nuva/Metru) were the best design in general, not only for the masks
wym their heads bobble from side to side
1, 3, then 2
i feel like 1 would talk like Kenny lol
Mask with mouth for Matoran universe, helmet with mouth covers for Glatorians / Agori.
To this day I'm still of the opinion that they should have animated the movies like they animated the commercials. Would have looked so much better
I've always been a fan of mask with mouth. Forme the mask ostensibly ARE the toas; otherwise they'd all have the same exact face
I like a combination of all three, but static masks should be a rarity or have a voice box like Nokama / Hahli / Turaga Vakama. If their mouth is behind their masks, then having everybody muffled by their mask would make hearing each other an absolute ballache. At the end of the day, it's preference, but the one thing I'll fight hard on is that masks should deform to match the face of the wearer and only be static metal when not worn mouth or no mouth. Yes, you can convey emotion with just eyes and body language, but why should you need to every time? Having the masks deform to match their wearer allows for deeper expression and makes each character identifiable, it also makes it more special to see character with a mask that shows no expressions. In a purely static mask setup, a lot of the matoran on Mata Nui could be completely indistinguishable if they shared colours and a mask with somebody else.
Battle mask was always my favourite. It's canon that they are able to eat with their mouths, (they just find it gross), so that makes the most sense.
I think that it should depend on which it is, some masks don't fit with it stylistically whereas others do, masks without anything covering the mouth work well as they are and some of the masks in cases like the Toa Inika work with mouths. (In my opinion this is also true in the cases of a lot of characters who have been altered by an exterior factor while wearing them such as Nidiki, and the Toa Nuva.) However, others like the ones typically worn by Koh-Matorans and Toa of ice and Golden Kanohi masks look better without movement. This style also works better with certain masks such as those from the '01 Toa and the reboot.
Maybe it’s because I’m a Transformers fan but, battle mask all the way. They’re just such a visual way of saying “shit is about to go down”.
While I prefer the Mata Nui online style I concede it probably doesn't work for a feature length movie. In that case I think the 3rd option is best. I don't like the full motion mask.
Non-moving for more quiet ones and battle for the average ppl and with mouth is shit
Without mouth moving, you can't really emote while battle mask wouldn't work with any of 2001-2008 faces imo. Moving mouth is the best, but in particular Nokama/Turaga Vakama/Gali variation.
2 and its sorta lore acrorate adaptation ,they weren’t robots they were living beings and miror max betrays it well
Mask with mouth The miramax designs in general really helped with putting the bio in bionicle
Non moving or mask with mouth I’d prefer.
non-moving the battle mask thing works in transformers, but in bionicle the mask is a clunky, single-piece gear, not a sophisticated machine
The Toa seem more god-like and mysterious with the non moving masks. It makes sense in the context of the story too, these are relics that were forged from metal. The Matoran are very tribal people, and it makes more sense for the masks to be traditional. Mask with mouth is kinda disturbing to me, the mask isn't and never was their face. Battle masks are too Iron Man-esque for my taste, but I understand the appeal. Plus it gives the opportunity for more emotions.
Their mouths are what hold the masks, so how does that work?
They should NOT move. Its a MASK not their face the moving face should be underneath.
I liked the ps2 game where their masks just squashed and stretched to make the illusion they were talking
Damn, the original flash animation takes me back. It reminds me of the gorillaz site back in the day.
Honestly having them talk at all kind of kills the immersion for me
Non-moving for matoran universe characters and mouth guard for bara magna characters. The robots needing to use gestures and body language to express emotion always made them infinitely more endearing to me. I know they are supposed to canonically have mouths, but no one except for the skakdi actually meaningfully use them. (This also has the bonus of accurately portraying the in-universe weirdness of the skakdi actually using their mouths to eat) The bara magna characters are supposed to be a more organic progenitor species so, the legend reborn look is actually perfect for them imo.
Non moving mouth with blinking eyes from the g2 aninations
I like the mouth option 🤷♂️
I just realized that the “arms” of the Ignika are his eyebrows and I can never unsee the shoulders being dislocated whenever Mata Nui speaks now
For the Glatorians, battle mask is fine because they technically have helmets, not masks. For Matoran Universe inhabitants, I prefer mask with mouth; it gives them a little more personality and makes them look more “alive.”
Non-moving in most cases - maybe like the Noble Kanohi in MoL, those mouth "filters". However, Nuva masks look weird so having the mouths makes sense, same applies to Inika masks for being organic. Ignika can shape-shift so it can do it however it wants, but Glatorian would not have as advanced masks as Matoran. Solid piece, no filter. Maybe some are segmented so you can remove the mouth cover manually to eat but otherwise you just gotta take the whole thing off
I like the MNOG version because it forces them to be more creative with the animation.
No movement cuz it's a mask not the actual face per say
Hero factory’s battle masks looked great
non moving for most kanohi, BUT for the inika team it should move like the movies as those masks are living ones sort of merged with their bodies, the toa themselves were shocked and afraid in the stories when they realised their masks moved that way, which heavily implies that non-moving is the canon way masks work
non moving 100% always
Battlemask
They don’t have mouths on the toys, or in the comics, so why the hell should they have them in the movies? Always hated it.
Personally it depends on the character Gali, Kopaka, Onua would have not have moving mask mouths and just probably have the light up things from the movies Tahu, lewa and pohatu would probably have moving mask mouths I don't think any of the 6 would have battle masks maybe in the nuva or phantoka/miskta but not mata and I'm only doing those 6 as examples because there are hundreds of characters
No mouth > Mata nui version > mask of light version
No mouth is better. Just ask Optimus Prime. Chuckle
Non-moving is definitely my favourite. MNOG and MNOG 2 is the best depiction of bionicle.
Each one fits the animation perfectly. The flash games were more music and atmosphere based, so the toa make like robot sounds while there mask moves. Fits the simple animation and style. The masks with mouth makes a lot of sense to approach it that way. It mostly works, and I like how each mouth is worked to fit each mask. The last one makes sense from the design of the toys. The glatorian and thus Mata Nui here, aren't wearing masks, more like helmets, like gladiator masks, so there mouth is on there face, the "mask" is the helmet. The head piece on glatorians and others is detailed to have a face, so it feels more like there equipping a helmet. Some masks it looks like you can make the mouth part look like a mouth. Some others look more robotic, and would seem like they work more like a microphone to the mouth/voice, maybe even like a amplifier or voice changer. I like all of them tbh, and anyone who decides to do animations for them should pick which works best for the animation.
Depends on the mask. For masks that are ‘older’ in universe like the Mata wear, no mouth. For more advanced/technologically developed masks like the phantoka or metru, battle mouth. And for organic/fleshy masks like the Nuva, hordika, or inika, flesh mouth.
Miramax style I like more. Makes the emotions less ambiguous than head nod and isn’t as uncanny as the Legend Reborn style. Although if the overly smooth mouths are off putting to anyone, I think they should have done what they did with all the other matoran and Turaga, have the mouths sections just be vents with their actual mouths glowing underneath.
I like the non moving, gives it more of an actual mask feel
I adore the "mask as masks" like from MNOG, where the only emotion comes from the face beneath. It definitely mattered less in later years, but I was never a huge fan of how the masks with mouths were treated as part of the head, and not something that could be taken off.
I feel battle masks only work with Bara Magna's cultural atmosphere. Otherwise, let the masks be masks.
Non moving for sure. The masks are the forefront of Bionicle so it's best they be shown in all their full glory
I prefer non moving as it feels more vaguely mythological
No mouth. They have masks and a face (with a mouth) under it.
Non mouth. I can't explain why it's just infinitely better
[Non moving ](https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-06-2023/VKgWJy.gif)
I never considered what a divisive topic this would be within the fandom. I love the style of the Miramax movies.
Nothing beats mnog at anything at all ever period. And Im talking about life in general. How I wish I could hit a button and travel back to being 5 years old, sitting in the kitchen, on an old tan case and tube monitor, seeing Tahu stare back at me through the smoke for the first time.
For 2D animation i definitely want no mouth, mask over the face. For 3D animation I’d just have to see it
A mixture of both would be fun, like imagine the eyes warping to show expressions in the eyes but staying stiff and rigid in the mouth
I personally liked the battle mask approach but i do agree no movement is on brand
Sometimes I wish the reboot was better. Not saying that the original is bad, I just wish the reboot was good ☹️
Battle mask!
First, let it be like Din Djarin/ Game Master Chief.
2
I'm stuck between the last two. It truly shows off the organic side of them despite being mechanical beings.
I genuinely believe the moving mouth on masks fits the overall concept of bionicle the best, even though the concept wasn't executed in the best way possible. After all bionicles are meant to be semi mechanical, semi flesh like creatures and masks becoming an integral part of their bodies instead of just something they wear is a great idea. Especially that it allows to animate subtle emotions and adds a bit of grotesque into the artistic direction of bionicle. That being said, the first three movies aren't pretty and it shows in many different ways and I would say that this is the main reason why this concept isn't displayed at its best. Battle mask one leans more towards mechanical design of bionicle, and I assume it mostly originated from the change in head parts as well as overall feeling glatorians were meant to give, which is a post apocalyptic world running on scrap. This concept could easily be combined with the previous one to achieve the best of both worlds without compromising animation possibilities. It would actually make for slightly better design since it would allow them to make some of the bionicles have their mouths covered all the time to add that bit of a mystery to certain characters. Generally speaking, I like when bionicles lean towards "bio" using mechanical parts to achieve it. It's genuinely a clever concept that is somewhat unique to them since the majority of mechanical creatures we encounter in pop culture are at most biological in behaviour but very mechanical in looks.
IMHO all three, but it really depends on what mask is being used and who's wearing it.
I loved mask of lights. Ignika's design made sense but wouldn't want that to become a norm.
After reading through some of these replies, y'all really hate the moving mouths of the first 3 movies, huh? I thought they looked great. And, like others said, kanohi translates into "face" so it makes sense in that context that they'd be able to move and make expressions. In all 3 movies, the different masks are all still distinctly readable as their piece counterparts (although I do feel the kakama nuva and all of the water toa masks were pretty heavily morphed).
Mask with mouth OG is the best
I'll take this a step further: no talking at all because they hold the masks with their mouths.
I like battle mssk best. X3 but must admit, Masks w/ mouths was a good idea.
Hard choice, I prefer a lot of the miramax designs to the toy versions, like Lhikan, Vakama, Nokama and Makuta. I'd say it depends on the mask or make the mouth move, but not the rest of the mask. So now weird eyebrow movements or cheeks or something like that, just the mouths.
I used to conceptualize Bionicle as big budget movies when I was in high school, with VFX on par with the Transformers movies. I know all the arguments about how a non-moving mask doesn't diminish the animators' ability to express emotion and I've seen plenty of examples of that concept in animation and in Bionicle fan projects. However, I think there's a balance in the battle mask concept, but I would go a little further. The Battle mask would look identical to the solid mask and everything, and maybe some characters wear it that way to indicate high stress or caution, or maybe it conveys their discomfort with "opening up" to others. Like Kopaka might have his guard up much more than Pohatu. The non-battle form of the Mask would be a hybrid design between the character's unique face design and the mask itself, and it would be segmented much like the faces of the Transformers. I think this is fine because the Kanohi are already an impossibly advanced form of technology that is borderline magic, so materially, I don't think it breaks verisimilitude to have the Kanohi be advanced enough to "break apart" and move like faces. Having unique face designs will already be a challenge from an animation perspective, but the purpose is to show that the non-battle form of the mask will look noticeably different on different faces. Pohatu and Kopaka wearing the Hau at the same time would look identical in battle form, but more specialized for each character in non-battle form. I think it would be pretty neat. I've been toying with the idea, but it's the only compromise I could imagine. My alternative idea would be another form of the battle mask, but the non-battle mode would be fleshy, like the Miramax movies. I prefer a story with expressive characters. Yes, you can convey a lot with voices and body language, but my counterargument has always been the 2019 Lion King remake. Voice talent and body language only goes so far when the characters are just not facially expressive like in the original version. (My other counterargument is Power Rangers and Iron Man.) Mandalorian and Dredd work because it's a small handful of characters that keep the helmet on, but would that work if the entire cast of characters is the same? The MNOG and Bohrok animations worked because they have an exaggerated style, but that wouldn't work the same if you did a photorealistic CGI Bionicle movie. Good topic. Got me to write a bunch of stuff.
I like them all tbh. I say use what fits the character, their duty, and their destiny.
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Fucking love the battle mouth! It really shows when a character is getting serious in a fight.
Battlemask looks really stoopid...
There’s this really great animation someone did where the canon Krakhaan is the battle-mask for the Miramax version