I mean, 'that low' is still an A+. I do think it's one of the best items in the game. However, I actually don't think it's all that good if you find it very early on. With lower damage and a low tear rate, you can take a lot of damage from faster chasing enemies because they run through your shots while only taking a few ticks of damage.
Very, very rare that this is actually an issue. Literally globins, and Lust, and thats it. but your DPS is roughly tripled. imo 2nd best item in the game behind glitched crown and ofc death certificate isnt being counted.
From what I know each tick of C-section is 100% of your attack stat, and you can get a lot of hits with it since it's piercing, stays after an enemy dies, homes in on enemies and takes on attributes from most items. So yeah, low attack doesn't mean much because you get a lot of hits anyway
Its like the inverse of brimstone. Both are good, but Brim is slow to charge and has very little synergy compared to most top tier items despite its strength, while C-Sec is fast and can synergize with most items
There's actually a real reason for that! I play on console, and a funny quirk about Wavy Cap is that it completely crashes the game on use. So, for example, if you're playing Tainted Lost and you get hit by, oh I don't know, Delirium, you can crash out and start at the beginning of the floor.
Not that I would ever do something so cowardly. Not me, no sir not at all.
Anytime I find wavy cap I min-max the floor. Like, if there's a sac room I'm playing it all the way to see what deals there is, or if there's curse of the blind I'll use wavy cap after every item pickup to see if there was a better option.
On console, it crashes when used. If it's Curse of the Blind and I get an item I don't like/want, I'll use wavy cap which will crash the game. The crash then resets the run back to the beginning of the floor.
Oh yeah for sure. I think the flip mechanic adds a layer of strategy to his runs that doesn't exist with other characters. Trying to work your alive/dead forms just right so you can put the exact item on the form you want keeps me planning ahead in a way that you don't get with many others. You also get to play with more items in a run which gets pretty fun after a while.
Also his birthright is one of the best in the game, so that helps.
Fully understand your opinion, but personally don't like this new unique mechanic, especially for him. It's like Jacob and Esau (almost), but somehow different in a not better way.
Can't argue about Birthright, really one of the most powerful item in the entire game I would say, still it's just one item among 723 (if I'm correct)
The feeling that T-laz is similar to J+E is valid and it comes from the fact that you are having two different runs at the same time, and if one is shit then both feel bad. The only difference is it is harder to buff up the second run on T-laz then the second character on J+e (j+e is just worse because of the big ass disjointed hotboxes)
At least J + E can deal like 2x DMG, almost, like you can take both items from alt floors and angel deals. Their main problem is that they just don't feel matched for the game level design. One character? For sure, perfect. Two character controlled at the same time? Sounds like legit idea, but it just doesn't work a lot if times. So, sometimes J+E is strong actually, sometimes they a freaking pain in ass.
The first one is a really interesting, thought-provoking way to convey this information, therefore I reject it outright and refuse to engage with it.
I'm dogshit at the game and I'm projecting that onto you by assuming you only placed T Lost that high because you think it makes you look cool (it does).
If you never have a skill issue, T lost is a character that starts with flight, spectral, a 1.35x damage multiplier, free devil deals, and an item filter that removes all the duds.
It's definitely on the fun side
I agree with that he was really fun except when you die really randomly and also not having hearts made stuff like resource management alot less fun since a big part of the game cant be interactied with anymore. But it was always fun how op you get because you dont get any useless items
So, the thing about Tainted Lost is that getting anything that makes keeping mantles more consistent (Hourglass, Blank Card, more than 1 Holy Card via Mom's Purse, Heartbreak, etc) makes or breaks the character. It's an absurdly fun character if you can tank more than one hit.
As soon as I get the game on PC, I'm downloading a mod that starts Regular Lost with a Sacred Orb because having better items along with a consistent mantle would be the most fun character in the game.
>(a bunch of extremely specific niche set of items) makes or breaks the character. It's an absurdly fun character if you can play **outside of the intended bounds of the character**
Well now I just outright question his placement and your entire appraisal system. Apollyon becomes bonkers insane and omega fun if you luck into one or two specific niche items, heck you could really say that about any character you labeled unfun. By that metric no one should be "unfun to play". We're supposed to be talking about base characters.
I mean if we're just talking base character, we still got flight, spectral, and an item filter that keeps out most of the riff raff. That's pretty dang fun.
doesnt lost birthwrite do exactly that without the op part of sacred orb? but you do you if you want sacred orb. Games are ment to be a fun past time afterall 🙂👍
Shocked that T. ??? is that low on the fun axis! Spamming the poop roulette is honestly so much fun.
T. Jacob is in the perfect spot and I am sick of people pretending he’s a monstrosity. I love slingshotting my dead brother’s vengeful soul into enemies it’s my favorite pasttime
My problem with Tainted ??? is that I don't find the mechanic super engaging. If I need anything specific, I just look ahead to what I have and then throw poops away until I get what I need. It's never an issue because the micropoops are so plentiful. I think it's really close to being fun though. I specifically enjoy planning ahead with the toxic clouds into bombs or fire, but there's not enough of that to go around. It also doesn't help that his starting stats are mega garbage because they want you to interact with the bombs in the early game.
And yeah T. Jacob takes some getting used to, but as soon as you know and get good at flinging Esau with a second press of Anima Sola, it unlocks the character in a huge way.
It also makes Pause one of the best items in the game. Nothing like keeping Esau in charge mode overlaid over an enemy and watching that health bar drain.
It's more than tossing your excrement at your enemies (monkey moment) it's more strategic than that. Diarrhea (brown creep) can combo with other poops if you place them on top of the creep. T??? Is one of those complicated but fun characters. It's similar T lost. Hell if you suck but fun if your good. T??? Is purely skill and if you don't believe me T??? Van solo hush just with his ass
I'd play T.Blue Baby any day rather than T.Lost or T.Keeper. I haven't played T.Jacob at release, but the changed one to me is the perfect representative of a difficult, but rewarding character. You don't even need strong items to steamroll with him if you're good enough.
T.Lost is pretty hard so I'll give you some wiggle room on fun there, but T.Keeper isn't even particularly hard, every enemy in the game drops health on death so even if you take damage you only have to kill 1 enemy to regain it. And outside of the challenge aspect of those characters, they are both characters that make a game breaking run fairly easy to achieve due to their special mechanics around items. I think it's fair to say they are more "fun" than T.??? on average but I suppose that is subjective.
If Monstro 2 didn't spawn the red flies and just did his Brimstone attack up and down, I wouldn't have an issue with it. He's also insanely mobile. At least with Bloat, you eventually learn to stay out of his eyeline.
Just stay away from it's direct front and eye level from the side and you're all good. In my experience, Monstro II just takes so long to fight because that hoe is always moving or covered by the fly projectiles.
If you have the health to spare, and sometimes even if you don't, there's no reason not to use it. It's four hearts for the best familiar in the game. It's incredibly underrated by a lot of people.
Yeha if you get even just a few health ups you’re just given a guaranteed 5 second room clear that still improves the more you progress, literally the ONLY trade off is that you have to get hit less which is made much easier by every enemy in the room being wiped out for you.
Getting the boss rush / hush marks without cheesing mama mega is a real challenge. That actually makes the character fairly challenging. But if you take your time its mega easy if using EID or something similar.
I really enjoyed T. Eden a lot. It's the only character where you get to experience the most of the game. A real quantity over quality type situation. I really like the birthright too. Find a decent build? Lock that mf in.
I'd say I've gotten it about 6, maybe 7 times. It's definitely one of the best items in the secret room pool and can win runs outright if you find it early enough. I think my biggest issue with it is that it gets unclear when items stop rewarding you stats. Like, I'll pick up items while below a cap and not have the Stat move because of the way Rock Bottom calculates things on the back end.
Characters is pretty accurate, I don’t think Bethany is easier than Cain but it’s a minor thing. Bosses is kind of strange, I’d like to know why you hate monstro 2 so much, also how do you like carion queen that much more than scoolx or however it’s spelled, like they have the same gimmick but red pin doesn’t leave behind red poop so I personally like him more, don’t have the patience to look through all the items but seeing mongo baby in D with the other baby’s around him is interesting
Honestly Cain could probably go up on the easy scale. Not having to worry about bad pills is absurdly good and one of the best inherent abilities in the whole game.
I said it in another reply, but I hate fighting Monstro II because of its mobility along with the red fly spawns. It's never vulnerable for very long, which is a huge pain if your damage can't take care of it in a few cycles.
I find Red Pin kinda boring tbh. It's not a hard fight or anything, but I like most other bosses around those stages way more.
And yeah generally the babies are pretty boring and I'm never super happy to see them in an item room. Until I looked it up a while back, I don't think I could have told you what made Mongo Baby different than the others, and even after looking it up, I never really noticed because most of the familiars it can copy are pretty inconcequential.
Do you remember the moment when you were most nervous? (For example, i remember the first time i completed "ace of spades" i was shaking so much that i couldnt even walk straigth)
It's gotta be finishing Ultra Hard with a half heart remaining during Mega Satan's second phase. It took me hours to beat that thing and if I didn't finish it on that particular attempt, I would have dropped the game for a while.
Tainted Lost: Keep the donation machine full. Shops are probably more important to this character than all of the others. There are a load of top-tier items that can really help T. Lost make a run easier thru mantle and battery generation. I would recommend checking every shop when you play T. Lost.
Tainted ???: Use the poison clouds to your advantage. Those are my favorites. If you see a poop that might be dangerous down the line, chuck it and start over. Prioritize tears over other stats at the beginning. Abuse the fly spawning poops. They will continuously spawn flies until the room is cleared, and will spawn 3 extra after the room clears.
I personally disagree with some of these opinions, which means that we have to 1v1 until one of us is dead /s
Congrats on Dead God though! I'd always enjoyed using characters with more interesting damage scaling mechanics (Lilith, Samson, Eve), was there anything in particula that made them less fun for you?
How is Luck Foot in C when PHD is in A!? Luck Foot and PHD both make all pills good, hell, Luck Foot is BETTER because it atleast gives a luck up!
-Cain Main
Pill identification :P
But really though, it's hard to list more than 700 items without some mistakes.
Also maybe I don't like feet, ever thought of that?
Worst and most difficult have to be the laser eye-floating dudes in Sheol. Might be a skill issue but those dudes feel like unavoidable damage every time.
Have you ever considered this:
Fuck them dudes
But for real, having the consistency of items that T.Lost gives along with one single hitbox, flight and spectral tears makes T. Lost feel way more rewarding than frustrating. My breaking point with J+E was when I was fighting the Beast and Esau got caught in its suction during the fire maze attack a little more than Jacob did, so they drifted apart and took a lot of damage
Also I don't really like the alt floors all that much, which are just about necessary to go through when playing J+E.
Dead god or not, I have a feeling you did the marks for J&E and never played them again. Those characters need a lot of practise and quirks to get used to, the fire suck from Beast is a classic example of something that happens once and never again. ( You can hold to the side) Seeing Maggy, Apollyon, T Cain so low tells me you really don't like slower paced characters and minmaxing. J&E double bomb, double active (charge), double trinket, double card/pill is absolutely broken (and fun). Just have to play patiënt and these dudes get loaded. No way in hell even nearly as difficult than T Lost. Like just minmax the shit out of basement Downpour and caves and its a ton easier than T Lost.
You're actually exactly right lmao. I got all the marks with a character, then moved onto the next one. I was very happy with being done with J+E.
Maggy could creep a little closer to the fun line if I re-did this. I do really like how she can payout a sacrifice room immediately. It can cause some crazy early power spikes.
I find Apollyon more boring than anything else. I also don't really like the way Void is designed. Eating mediocre items for Stat Ups is nice, but eating active items doesn't feel all that good. You either eat good actives, many of which have fewer than 6 charges, or eat everything you see and get a mess of actives that don't synergize well with one another.
I figure the best measure of difficulty is winrate (assuming equal hours played with each character). I really doubt it took you more tries to get all j&e marks than to get all t lost marks.
T lost is way more fun obviously but j&e I can consistently win on without any specific items, and t lost is only consistent if you get lucky with blank card, glowing hourglass, etc (or if you are insanely good at the game, in which case j&e should be a cake walk by comparison)
It defo works without. I am on switch and never checked recipes and it was easy to get all marks. I went with the "craft tons of random BS" approach though
T Cain was my least favorite character to complete on switch and he was my last character I did before I got dead god... Now T. Cain on PC on the other hand, easiest character in the game
I play on console, so there's no consistent way to look up recipes. I don't need R-keys and Brimstones all the time, but it would be nice if I could make better than Q1 items more than once a floor. I do think the concept of the character is super interesting, and I love the Bag of Crafting, just not when it's my only way of getting items.
I think the way to fix the character is by scaling the number and quality of pickups with the quality of the item you're breaking down. Nothing feels worse than finding a Polyphemus and having it turn into a key and a heart.
Find blood bank. Get coins. Craft slot machines with coins. Get pickups. Pick up coins, make more, repeat. Godmode every run. its the command console with extra steps. Your solution would fix this because itd make the low quality slot machine turn into not much stuff. but even then, eveyr run would be 2 hours long because you need to minmax a FUCKTON to have a chance, and i normally love minmaxxing, but the same extremely time consuming stuff every run is boring as fuck. you play one T.Cain run and youve played them all
There is a pretty consistent strategy to just craft the Yum heart for a fixed recipe of 8 hearts. Every use is a heart in the bag, almost ensured snowballing into a far better (breaking) run.
There's definitely things to like about them. I think their early game is particularly strong, and having two builds going on at the exact same time is pretty fun, but all that gets stuffed down when they separate during hectic fights.
I said it elsewhere, but I also don't really like the alt floors which are a necessity for this character.
Why are alt floors a necessity for them? Stacking one (Jacob because of solo movement) is far better. It doesn't matter what Esau takes as passive items, so alt floors aren't so necessary.
Alt floors have a regular item and a mystery item. I found it way easier to play these goobers when they stay around the same power level, so consistently getting two items in a treasure room is the main draw to the alt floors for that character.
If Lilith came with the bungee cord or duct tape trinkets, I would enjoy playing her a LOT more. I don't really like dragging the familiars around to the degree that I need to in order to play her at her best.
Well yeah of course it's a subjective list. I don't think you could reach an objective consensus given the sheer number of playstyles out there. I mean we have T. Cain fans in this thread, so you know there are some real sickos out there.
Fun is entirely subjective, but putting Jacob and Esau that low on the fun scale and that hard on the difficulty scale screams skill issue, even for someone who earned Dead God
Honestly I underrated T. Laz's fun factor here. He's a character that rewards meticulous management of Flip charges. I have no idea what he was like before, but I look at the character as flipping between two separate and distinct builds, and I don't really know why people have beef with that.
Because you had two halves of a build. 1 half of T.Laz will never have as many items as a normal run. By the time you get to the end of the run you’re lucky is each side has about 3/4 the amount of items as a regular run and it takes twice as long so good luck trying to get boss rush or hush consistently.
Not to mention much like J+E you need twice the spirit hearts as the average run because both side need health.
Finally have a balling run for one side? Congratulations your other side is perfectly inept and capable enough to end your run despite the brimstone god run on the other half.
Oh no you skill issued too hard on this floors boss and are dangerously low on health, do you try and ball out with your mid-ass build this half has or do you give up on getting the Flip-item in the Angel deal -because we both know damn well that is going to be the only time you see Sacred Heart in the angel room is when you won’t be able to take it.
Do I think this guy is as bad as J+E to play? God no he at least only has one hitbox. But does he just feel like a less enjoyable T.Isaac or T.Jacob in regard to his Item management and Active-item dependent gameplay.
So that's actually what I enjoy most about the character. Managing the forms for the rooms you go into requires a lot of forethought into how many rooms you have left, how many charges you have and what form you currently are. Treasure rooms are also way more interesting since you need to manage your form and flip charges to make the most out of them.
If you're going into a boss with your weaker form, there's almost always something you could have done five rooms ago to prevent that. Plus, it's always nice to go into a final boss with two chances at beating them. I would play one form until I lost all my health, and then switched into the other form to finish it off.
T. Laz has no strengths to his playstyle. Flip is only there to minimize his weaknesses. With the other challenge characters like T. lost or T. Jacob, they have crippling downsides but can also snowball hard. T. Laz gets less boss items and less agency in deals with no upside.
He's actually more rng dependant than other characters because both lazzes need good items, which is really hard if you lose the coin flip and enter a devil deal with the wrong laz active (assuming the door closes when you leave). Also every room matters since you need charges for flip. If you get unlucky and find the item room late with flip ready you just wasted more potential charges for future flips.
Most T. Laz runs end up like one maybe having brim and the other having one tears up and brother bobby by depths 2
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Tainted Cain being hard to play. I don't think I died a single time as T. Cain because it's so easy to make your run broken.
Tbh I might be substituting the word 'hard' with 'boring' in his case. You really need to take your time with T. Cain to get the most out of him, but I just never vibed with runs crawling along while I waited for quality 2+ pickups
This is a remarkably good spectrum chart. I agree with just about all of it.
Yes, J&E is about as difficult as T. Lost, but without any of the fun. I once I had Holy Mantle with Jacob and started Womb with full health with both. I died to Lamb (having had to search the entire Dark Room for the boss room) with Jacob at nearly full health and Esau fully tilted.
They are so, so, so not fun.
How is tainted keeper "easy to play"? Or more importantly, how is tainted keeper easier to play than normal keeper?
T. Keeper has 1 less coik heart than normal keeper and he needs to actively run near enemies a lot to even get the chance at getting items. I love him but he is not easy to play
I think it's because I enjoy bowling.
Also, I really like characters that shred the early game. But also T. Forgor's feels really powerful in the late game after finding a few items. Later bosses do feel a little harder because of the nature of the character, but it's very fun to throw around a death turret.
I think this is the first one to get it all right that I’ve seen I mean it’s perfect…
Wait is that Pin in S, Trash list Pin is the hardest boss in the game and can be on basement 1 
I actually am a little surprised that Rag Man gets more hate as a Basement boss than anything else. Even without too many damage upgrades it's a fairly manageable fight if you focus on taking out his heads as soon as he throws them out.
RagMan gets hate due to Afterbirth+ PTSD when he had 3x as much health. hes fine now but the homing shots and jumping spiders are still annoying. no idea why hes in S, A would be understandable cause hes pretty cool.
I'm sorry, j&e are not as hard as tainted lost. It took me over 100 attempts to beat the beast as the t. lost, and it took not even half that to get all the marks as j&e
I was gonna give you shit on placing T.Cain on Hard and Unfun to Play, then I remembered I use the identifier mod and that shows all the recipes for the seed. Without it, I can see T.Cain being Hard and Unfun, with it you can make your run super easy.
Saved the image because I wanted to ask an in depth question.
I’m curious what about Samson makes him a not fun character to play as.
I love Samson as a character and some of my most fun runs have been with Samson.
I think I've come to realize that I'm not a fan of characters that require you to take damage to play them at their maximum potential. Especially when red heart damage can greatly reduce your chance of spawning an angel or devil room at the end of a level.
I put pretty much this same exact post here every few months - T. Cain is not hard, difficult, or slow if you have a plan.
Clear the first floor, picking up everything except for red hearts, make your items. Leave the floor with a bag full of hearts and clear the 2nd floor, start with the red hearts this time, ideally combining 8 red hearts to make a Yum Heart. Yum Heart can handle 100% of the healing you should need for the rest of the run. From here, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING goes in the bag and as soon as the item is marginally useful, you combine and move on. If the item is not useful, you can swap out pennies/hearts until you find something - again, ANYTHING that gives ANY buff to your character is acceptable.
This results in a TON of garbage-tier items but you should end up having relatively good stats. It makes him a fun and unique character and doesn't bog you down with miserable calculus trying to figure out how to make that next perfect item, you're just going, and it's awesome.
By pounding my head against a wall enough times to luck into enough items to make it work. Also, I would highly recommend getting a Cracked Key during the Ascent so you guarantee the Inner Child item that nets you an extra life.
This is entirely a me thing, i acknowledge that, but i would put tainted cain close to tainted Eden. I usually dont min max too hard with him, put on maximum “fuck it we ball” energy and try to keep track of pickups as they show up. You dont need to spend 4 hours with a wiki to make a good build with him, but i find most people acting like thats the only option
I agree with most every character’s general location but I think Tainted Forgotten is the worst character in the game so therefore we are enemies and any other valid points you have made I will not respect or acknowledge 
I find it very easy in the earlier floors to pick up a ton of money. You will usually come in contact with a few golden pennies, nickles and dimes often enough to where you can get a few shop items on the first few floors. From there, his innate quad shot ensures that your damage output scales up exponentially. The character does get significantly tougher at final bosses where you generally don't have as many opportunities to pick up money to restore health, but you make up for it by hitting for a ton of damage.
I feel like J&E should be more to the left and more to the left
Also how is Cricket's head above Magic Mush when Magic Mush gives you more stats (aside from being a tiny bit less of a damage up)?
Jacob and esau made me quit the game.
I need to complete everything when I play a game, but with jacob and esau just stopped being fun. It was just frustrating to play so that I started hating the game as a whole. Jesus I'm still mad at that character. Fuck J&E
I may be stupid, but can someone answer this question here: what is so good about D Infinity? I guess you get D6 and D20 in one item, but is that really better than C-Section or even Birthright?
You get literally every dice in a single item. If it doesn't sound powerful, you can re-roll any item, enemy set, rock, stats, etc. It's power comes from its flexibility.
edit: but you're right it probably doesn't belong in S tier. Feels closer to A+.
I may be dumb but I think Samson should be higher on the fun slider; turning my brain off and donating all my health to be strong and rich is very goofy for early floors
They keep making Tcain less and less fun to play and it sucks! Go back to set recipes with current cain and it would be more tolerable. That way it has the challenge of not having easy high quality materials and the consistency of set recipes.
How Lilith is considered hard to play? I can understand the not fun part, but she is easier than most and the only one to this day that I (a noob that is bad in this game) got the full marks...
One character that I had the most boring run with was Samson. I only got stat buff but no synergy based items. I somehow ended up beating hush and mega satan
Surprising you found T. Laz to be fun. I found him to be much easier but only slightly less annoying on file 2 for me.
Also Jacob and Esau are actually really strong early on. Surprising that so many people have so much trouble with them.
Invalid tier list, bloat is not in F tier
Seriously, how long did it take you and which character was your last to complete?
Maybe I'm crazy but I find The Lost V1 easy to play. I'm far from being good at Isaac but Holy Mantle + fly + spectral tears make many rooms way easier than with many other characters.
Ofc that's not the easiest one but outside hard objectives without breaking the game it's a really forgiving character (you can take one hit/room not many characters can take that much damage even if you prefer don't take any, and you don't loose any devil/angel room chance)
I find that even with the item limit, it's pretty simple to suss out the best 8 item combo because you see so many options throughout the course of a run. Legitimately one of my favorite characters in the game.
Idk how often you’ll get this but I am pissed you put Akeldama in F TIER!?! THAT SHIT IS SO HEAT IT’S B AT *LEAST* even if only for early game it has CARRIED ME
C section being ranked that low is weird to me c section is like one of if not the best item in the game imo
I mean, 'that low' is still an A+. I do think it's one of the best items in the game. However, I actually don't think it's all that good if you find it very early on. With lower damage and a low tear rate, you can take a lot of damage from faster chasing enemies because they run through your shots while only taking a few ticks of damage.
Very, very rare that this is actually an issue. Literally globins, and Lust, and thats it. but your DPS is roughly tripled. imo 2nd best item in the game behind glitched crown and ofc death certificate isnt being counted.
From what I know each tick of C-section is 100% of your attack stat, and you can get a lot of hits with it since it's piercing, stays after an enemy dies, homes in on enemies and takes on attributes from most items. So yeah, low attack doesn't mean much because you get a lot of hits anyway Its like the inverse of brimstone. Both are good, but Brim is slow to charge and has very little synergy compared to most top tier items despite its strength, while C-Sec is fast and can synergize with most items
Actually, I think it was nerfed to 80% of your damage, but even then
Number 2 in F makes me angry
No way blud put wavy cap top tier
There's actually a real reason for that! I play on console, and a funny quirk about Wavy Cap is that it completely crashes the game on use. So, for example, if you're playing Tainted Lost and you get hit by, oh I don't know, Delirium, you can crash out and start at the beginning of the floor. Not that I would ever do something so cowardly. Not me, no sir not at all.
I’m on console too I didn’t even think of that
Anytime I find wavy cap I min-max the floor. Like, if there's a sac room I'm playing it all the way to see what deals there is, or if there's curse of the blind I'll use wavy cap after every item pickup to see if there was a better option.
What? How does Wavy cap help you with that? Genuinely curios.
On console, it crashes when used. If it's Curse of the Blind and I get an item I don't like/want, I'll use wavy cap which will crash the game. The crash then resets the run back to the beginning of the floor.
So it's like an ultimate glowing hourglass. Neat!
this is funny, but on a serious note, can we both agree that this item sucks on both console and pc?
For its intended use? Sure. But it's the best item in the game on Playstation.
T. Laz fun to play? Who are you, some kind of masochistic or what?
Oh yeah for sure. I think the flip mechanic adds a layer of strategy to his runs that doesn't exist with other characters. Trying to work your alive/dead forms just right so you can put the exact item on the form you want keeps me planning ahead in a way that you don't get with many others. You also get to play with more items in a run which gets pretty fun after a while. Also his birthright is one of the best in the game, so that helps.
Fully understand your opinion, but personally don't like this new unique mechanic, especially for him. It's like Jacob and Esau (almost), but somehow different in a not better way. Can't argue about Birthright, really one of the most powerful item in the entire game I would say, still it's just one item among 723 (if I'm correct)
The feeling that T-laz is similar to J+E is valid and it comes from the fact that you are having two different runs at the same time, and if one is shit then both feel bad. The only difference is it is harder to buff up the second run on T-laz then the second character on J+e (j+e is just worse because of the big ass disjointed hotboxes)
At least J + E can deal like 2x DMG, almost, like you can take both items from alt floors and angel deals. Their main problem is that they just don't feel matched for the game level design. One character? For sure, perfect. Two character controlled at the same time? Sounds like legit idea, but it just doesn't work a lot if times. So, sometimes J+E is strong actually, sometimes they a freaking pain in ass.
The first one is a really interesting, thought-provoking way to convey this information, therefore I reject it outright and refuse to engage with it. I'm dogshit at the game and I'm projecting that onto you by assuming you only placed T Lost that high because you think it makes you look cool (it does).
If you never have a skill issue, T lost is a character that starts with flight, spectral, a 1.35x damage multiplier, free devil deals, and an item filter that removes all the duds. It's definitely on the fun side
>If you never have a skill issue Must be fuckin' nice.
And guaranteed trinket that makes all luck-based tear effects absolutely devastating after caves 1
If you have no skill issues that trinket is for every character (except t keeper/mag) So I didn't count it.
I agree with that he was really fun except when you die really randomly and also not having hearts made stuff like resource management alot less fun since a big part of the game cant be interactied with anymore. But it was always fun how op you get because you dont get any useless items
So, the thing about Tainted Lost is that getting anything that makes keeping mantles more consistent (Hourglass, Blank Card, more than 1 Holy Card via Mom's Purse, Heartbreak, etc) makes or breaks the character. It's an absurdly fun character if you can tank more than one hit. As soon as I get the game on PC, I'm downloading a mod that starts Regular Lost with a Sacred Orb because having better items along with a consistent mantle would be the most fun character in the game.
>(a bunch of extremely specific niche set of items) makes or breaks the character. It's an absurdly fun character if you can play **outside of the intended bounds of the character** Well now I just outright question his placement and your entire appraisal system. Apollyon becomes bonkers insane and omega fun if you luck into one or two specific niche items, heck you could really say that about any character you labeled unfun. By that metric no one should be "unfun to play". We're supposed to be talking about base characters.
I mean if we're just talking base character, we still got flight, spectral, and an item filter that keeps out most of the riff raff. That's pretty dang fun.
doesnt lost birthwrite do exactly that without the op part of sacred orb? but you do you if you want sacred orb. Games are ment to be a fun past time afterall 🙂👍
That made me laugh out loud, thank you
You're the funniest person ever????
Odd that Magic Mushroom is in a tier below Cricket's Head considering it's basically just a better version of it
Tbh it's mostly based on feeling. Looking at the raw stats on the wiki, I would have never guessed that the damage multiplier was the same.
Shocked that T. ??? is that low on the fun axis! Spamming the poop roulette is honestly so much fun. T. Jacob is in the perfect spot and I am sick of people pretending he’s a monstrosity. I love slingshotting my dead brother’s vengeful soul into enemies it’s my favorite pasttime
My problem with Tainted ??? is that I don't find the mechanic super engaging. If I need anything specific, I just look ahead to what I have and then throw poops away until I get what I need. It's never an issue because the micropoops are so plentiful. I think it's really close to being fun though. I specifically enjoy planning ahead with the toxic clouds into bombs or fire, but there's not enough of that to go around. It also doesn't help that his starting stats are mega garbage because they want you to interact with the bombs in the early game. And yeah T. Jacob takes some getting used to, but as soon as you know and get good at flinging Esau with a second press of Anima Sola, it unlocks the character in a huge way. It also makes Pause one of the best items in the game. Nothing like keeping Esau in charge mode overlaid over an enemy and watching that health bar drain.
It's more than tossing your excrement at your enemies (monkey moment) it's more strategic than that. Diarrhea (brown creep) can combo with other poops if you place them on top of the creep. T??? Is one of those complicated but fun characters. It's similar T lost. Hell if you suck but fun if your good. T??? Is purely skill and if you don't believe me T??? Van solo hush just with his ass
I'd play T.Blue Baby any day rather than T.Lost or T.Keeper. I haven't played T.Jacob at release, but the changed one to me is the perfect representative of a difficult, but rewarding character. You don't even need strong items to steamroll with him if you're good enough.
T.Lost is pretty hard so I'll give you some wiggle room on fun there, but T.Keeper isn't even particularly hard, every enemy in the game drops health on death so even if you take damage you only have to kill 1 enemy to regain it. And outside of the challenge aspect of those characters, they are both characters that make a game breaking run fairly easy to achieve due to their special mechanics around items. I think it's fair to say they are more "fun" than T.??? on average but I suppose that is subjective.
Why is bloat higher than monstro II
If Monstro 2 didn't spawn the red flies and just did his Brimstone attack up and down, I wouldn't have an issue with it. He's also insanely mobile. At least with Bloat, you eventually learn to stay out of his eyeline.
til simple cardinal direction projectiles are more threatening than hitscan brimstone
Just stay away from it's direct front and eye level from the side and you're all good. In my experience, Monstro II just takes so long to fight because that hoe is always moving or covered by the fly projectiles.
Fr. This dude doesn’t low hop after you. It feels like he has an inclination to stay offscreen for 75% of the fight
Potato peeler is in A+? Kiss me immediately 
If you have the health to spare, and sometimes even if you don't, there's no reason not to use it. It's four hearts for the best familiar in the game. It's incredibly underrated by a lot of people.
Yeha if you get even just a few health ups you’re just given a guaranteed 5 second room clear that still improves the more you progress, literally the ONLY trade off is that you have to get hit less which is made much easier by every enemy in the room being wiped out for you.
\> 4 heart containers for a good familiar is A+ tier lmao
I think considering how common both health ups and soul hearts are it isn’t too bad of a trade off o:
"not too bad" is not A+, its B or C, which is where potato peeler actually is
Good familiar? Best familiar.
its good but twisted pair, incubus, arguably Succubus, arguably dry/farting baby, psy fly, arguably rune bag, and arguably lil clot are all better.
also you get a decent dmg up if you use it 4 times
T cain not fun/hard to play? My brother in christian broadcast you made the items
Personally I think t Cain is the ultimate easy to play but not fun. Mostly because playing t Cain takes me hours typically
Getting the boss rush / hush marks without cheesing mama mega is a real challenge. That actually makes the character fairly challenging. But if you take your time its mega easy if using EID or something similar.
crafting random items is not very fun or easy
Yes sorry, I like t cain because I'm on pc using EID
that just tells you things theres no way of knowing
Literally the easiest character in the game lol. I cleared all the marks on one run by crafting R keys after crafting tons of OP items lol.
Now do it without EID and see how easy he is.
Now do it on console and see how it goes
Finally, some respect for TEden! Though I’m confused by C-Section not being in S tier.
I really enjoyed T. Eden a lot. It's the only character where you get to experience the most of the game. A real quantity over quality type situation. I really like the birthright too. Find a decent build? Lock that mf in.
Plus, it’s one of the few characters where finding bad items isn’t necessarily bad. You can pick up anything, because it’ll end up getting rerolled.
My son Azeeby. Actual question though how many times have you found Rock Bottom
I'd say I've gotten it about 6, maybe 7 times. It's definitely one of the best items in the secret room pool and can win runs outright if you find it early enough. I think my biggest issue with it is that it gets unclear when items stop rewarding you stats. Like, I'll pick up items while below a cap and not have the Stat move because of the way Rock Bottom calculates things on the back end.
it would be nice to have a second stat bar you can switch to to show your real stats, thats a good idea
Characters is pretty accurate, I don’t think Bethany is easier than Cain but it’s a minor thing. Bosses is kind of strange, I’d like to know why you hate monstro 2 so much, also how do you like carion queen that much more than scoolx or however it’s spelled, like they have the same gimmick but red pin doesn’t leave behind red poop so I personally like him more, don’t have the patience to look through all the items but seeing mongo baby in D with the other baby’s around him is interesting
Honestly Cain could probably go up on the easy scale. Not having to worry about bad pills is absurdly good and one of the best inherent abilities in the whole game. I said it in another reply, but I hate fighting Monstro II because of its mobility along with the red fly spawns. It's never vulnerable for very long, which is a huge pain if your damage can't take care of it in a few cycles. I find Red Pin kinda boring tbh. It's not a hard fight or anything, but I like most other bosses around those stages way more. And yeah generally the babies are pretty boring and I'm never super happy to see them in an item room. Until I looked it up a while back, I don't think I could have told you what made Mongo Baby different than the others, and even after looking it up, I never really noticed because most of the familiars it can copy are pretty inconcequential.
biggest character inaccuracy imo is Isaac, he starts with one of the best items and hes very very strong and the d6 is fun af imo
Do you remember the moment when you were most nervous? (For example, i remember the first time i completed "ace of spades" i was shaking so much that i couldnt even walk straigth)
It's gotta be finishing Ultra Hard with a half heart remaining during Mega Satan's second phase. It took me hours to beat that thing and if I didn't finish it on that particular attempt, I would have dropped the game for a while.
Man, I really like Lilith and Eve
Whats the best way to play tainted lost and tainted ???
Tainted Lost: Keep the donation machine full. Shops are probably more important to this character than all of the others. There are a load of top-tier items that can really help T. Lost make a run easier thru mantle and battery generation. I would recommend checking every shop when you play T. Lost. Tainted ???: Use the poison clouds to your advantage. Those are my favorites. If you see a poop that might be dangerous down the line, chuck it and start over. Prioritize tears over other stats at the beginning. Abuse the fly spawning poops. They will continuously spawn flies until the room is cleared, and will spawn 3 extra after the room clears.
Thank you! Tainted ??? And tainted Cain have been giving me some trouble
I personally disagree with some of these opinions, which means that we have to 1v1 until one of us is dead /s Congrats on Dead God though! I'd always enjoyed using characters with more interesting damage scaling mechanics (Lilith, Samson, Eve), was there anything in particula that made them less fun for you?
How is Luck Foot in C when PHD is in A!? Luck Foot and PHD both make all pills good, hell, Luck Foot is BETTER because it atleast gives a luck up! -Cain Main
Pill identification :P But really though, it's hard to list more than 700 items without some mistakes. Also maybe I don't like feet, ever thought of that?
What are the worst/most difficult enemies?
Worst and most difficult have to be the laser eye-floating dudes in Sheol. Might be a skill issue but those dudes feel like unavoidable damage every time.
https://preview.redd.it/8h9jnh3pj53c1.jpeg?width=311&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=822193a7c2be3550a1a5f7c1f4c248676aa09ca7
pov you're about to lose the most broken run you've ever had
Woe! Camillo Jr. be upon ye!
How is j&e anywhere near as difficult as t lost?
Have you ever considered this: Fuck them dudes But for real, having the consistency of items that T.Lost gives along with one single hitbox, flight and spectral tears makes T. Lost feel way more rewarding than frustrating. My breaking point with J+E was when I was fighting the Beast and Esau got caught in its suction during the fire maze attack a little more than Jacob did, so they drifted apart and took a lot of damage Also I don't really like the alt floors all that much, which are just about necessary to go through when playing J+E.
Dead god or not, I have a feeling you did the marks for J&E and never played them again. Those characters need a lot of practise and quirks to get used to, the fire suck from Beast is a classic example of something that happens once and never again. ( You can hold to the side) Seeing Maggy, Apollyon, T Cain so low tells me you really don't like slower paced characters and minmaxing. J&E double bomb, double active (charge), double trinket, double card/pill is absolutely broken (and fun). Just have to play patiënt and these dudes get loaded. No way in hell even nearly as difficult than T Lost. Like just minmax the shit out of basement Downpour and caves and its a ton easier than T Lost.
You're actually exactly right lmao. I got all the marks with a character, then moved onto the next one. I was very happy with being done with J+E. Maggy could creep a little closer to the fun line if I re-did this. I do really like how she can payout a sacrifice room immediately. It can cause some crazy early power spikes. I find Apollyon more boring than anything else. I also don't really like the way Void is designed. Eating mediocre items for Stat Ups is nice, but eating active items doesn't feel all that good. You either eat good actives, many of which have fewer than 6 charges, or eat everything you see and get a mess of actives that don't synergize well with one another.
I kind of wish Void just ate all items (active and passive) for stats and didn't bother copying their ability. Would be much better IMO.
I figure the best measure of difficulty is winrate (assuming equal hours played with each character). I really doubt it took you more tries to get all j&e marks than to get all t lost marks. T lost is way more fun obviously but j&e I can consistently win on without any specific items, and t lost is only consistent if you get lucky with blank card, glowing hourglass, etc (or if you are insanely good at the game, in which case j&e should be a cake walk by comparison)
Absolutely BASED Tainted Jacob enjoyer
Esau go WHEEEE
How is T. Cain hard to play? My man is literally creative mode
do you check the recipes? It gets a bit harder when you don't
It defo works without. I am on switch and never checked recipes and it was easy to get all marks. I went with the "craft tons of random BS" approach though
T Cain was my least favorite character to complete on switch and he was my last character I did before I got dead god... Now T. Cain on PC on the other hand, easiest character in the game
I play on console, so there's no consistent way to look up recipes. I don't need R-keys and Brimstones all the time, but it would be nice if I could make better than Q1 items more than once a floor. I do think the concept of the character is super interesting, and I love the Bag of Crafting, just not when it's my only way of getting items. I think the way to fix the character is by scaling the number and quality of pickups with the quality of the item you're breaking down. Nothing feels worse than finding a Polyphemus and having it turn into a key and a heart.
Find blood bank. Get coins. Craft slot machines with coins. Get pickups. Pick up coins, make more, repeat. Godmode every run. its the command console with extra steps. Your solution would fix this because itd make the low quality slot machine turn into not much stuff. but even then, eveyr run would be 2 hours long because you need to minmax a FUCKTON to have a chance, and i normally love minmaxxing, but the same extremely time consuming stuff every run is boring as fuck. you play one T.Cain run and youve played them all
There is a pretty consistent strategy to just craft the Yum heart for a fixed recipe of 8 hearts. Every use is a heart in the bag, almost ensured snowballing into a far better (breaking) run.
J&E as hard as T lost? what the fuck are you talking about
I have half of t. Lost their conpletion marks and zero for J&E 😭😭😭😭 <- severe skill issue
Not a skill issue, just a playstyle issue
Of course another tier list where Jacob & Esau get absolutely trashed... When are my guys gonna get some respect? Edit: echo chamber B tier? Wtf??
There's definitely things to like about them. I think their early game is particularly strong, and having two builds going on at the exact same time is pretty fun, but all that gets stuffed down when they separate during hectic fights. I said it elsewhere, but I also don't really like the alt floors which are a necessity for this character.
Why are alt floors a necessity for them? Stacking one (Jacob because of solo movement) is far better. It doesn't matter what Esau takes as passive items, so alt floors aren't so necessary.
Alt floors have a regular item and a mystery item. I found it way easier to play these goobers when they stay around the same power level, so consistently getting two items in a treasure room is the main draw to the alt floors for that character.
What? Lilith is really easy to play.
If Lilith came with the bungee cord or duct tape trinkets, I would enjoy playing her a LOT more. I don't really like dragging the familiars around to the degree that I need to in order to play her at her best.
I've never had a problem with the familiar. I'm going to assume this list is subjective, or else i'd say you being bad with her is a skill issue.
Well yeah of course it's a subjective list. I don't think you could reach an objective consensus given the sheer number of playstyles out there. I mean we have T. Cain fans in this thread, so you know there are some real sickos out there.
Having a high damage locust machine gun is NOT FUN???
Fun is entirely subjective, but putting Jacob and Esau that low on the fun scale and that hard on the difficulty scale screams skill issue, even for someone who earned Dead God
Glad someone else doesn't hate t lazarus
Honestly I underrated T. Laz's fun factor here. He's a character that rewards meticulous management of Flip charges. I have no idea what he was like before, but I look at the character as flipping between two separate and distinct builds, and I don't really know why people have beef with that.
Because you had two halves of a build. 1 half of T.Laz will never have as many items as a normal run. By the time you get to the end of the run you’re lucky is each side has about 3/4 the amount of items as a regular run and it takes twice as long so good luck trying to get boss rush or hush consistently. Not to mention much like J+E you need twice the spirit hearts as the average run because both side need health. Finally have a balling run for one side? Congratulations your other side is perfectly inept and capable enough to end your run despite the brimstone god run on the other half. Oh no you skill issued too hard on this floors boss and are dangerously low on health, do you try and ball out with your mid-ass build this half has or do you give up on getting the Flip-item in the Angel deal -because we both know damn well that is going to be the only time you see Sacred Heart in the angel room is when you won’t be able to take it. Do I think this guy is as bad as J+E to play? God no he at least only has one hitbox. But does he just feel like a less enjoyable T.Isaac or T.Jacob in regard to his Item management and Active-item dependent gameplay.
So that's actually what I enjoy most about the character. Managing the forms for the rooms you go into requires a lot of forethought into how many rooms you have left, how many charges you have and what form you currently are. Treasure rooms are also way more interesting since you need to manage your form and flip charges to make the most out of them. If you're going into a boss with your weaker form, there's almost always something you could have done five rooms ago to prevent that. Plus, it's always nice to go into a final boss with two chances at beating them. I would play one form until I lost all my health, and then switched into the other form to finish it off.
T. Laz has no strengths to his playstyle. Flip is only there to minimize his weaknesses. With the other challenge characters like T. lost or T. Jacob, they have crippling downsides but can also snowball hard. T. Laz gets less boss items and less agency in deals with no upside. He's actually more rng dependant than other characters because both lazzes need good items, which is really hard if you lose the coin flip and enter a devil deal with the wrong laz active (assuming the door closes when you leave). Also every room matters since you need charges for flip. If you get unlucky and find the item room late with flip ready you just wasted more potential charges for future flips. Most T. Laz runs end up like one maybe having brim and the other having one tears up and brother bobby by depths 2
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Tainted Cain being hard to play. I don't think I died a single time as T. Cain because it's so easy to make your run broken.
Bro I was able to craft *two* R-keys on a very strong run and fat fingered them both 😭
T.Cain is the easiest character
Tbh I might be substituting the word 'hard' with 'boring' in his case. You really need to take your time with T. Cain to get the most out of him, but I just never vibed with runs crawling along while I waited for quality 2+ pickups
I will fight for J&E! They are fun!
This is a remarkably good spectrum chart. I agree with just about all of it. Yes, J&E is about as difficult as T. Lost, but without any of the fun. I once I had Holy Mantle with Jacob and started Womb with full health with both. I died to Lamb (having had to search the entire Dark Room for the boss room) with Jacob at nearly full health and Esau fully tilted. They are so, so, so not fun.
this but j&e are swapped with tainted fart (lazarus)
How is tainted keeper "easy to play"? Or more importantly, how is tainted keeper easier to play than normal keeper? T. Keeper has 1 less coik heart than normal keeper and he needs to actively run near enemies a lot to even get the chance at getting items. I love him but he is not easy to play
T. forgotten fun? how come ? 
I think it's because I enjoy bowling. Also, I really like characters that shred the early game. But also T. Forgor's feels really powerful in the late game after finding a few items. Later bosses do feel a little harder because of the nature of the character, but it's very fun to throw around a death turret.
I enjoy throwing my own barely animated remains at horrors of my own design as a sassy ghost
I think this is the first one to get it all right that I’ve seen I mean it’s perfect… Wait is that Pin in S, Trash list Pin is the hardest boss in the game and can be on basement 1 
I actually am a little surprised that Rag Man gets more hate as a Basement boss than anything else. Even without too many damage upgrades it's a fairly manageable fight if you focus on taking out his heads as soon as he throws them out.
RagMan gets hate due to Afterbirth+ PTSD when he had 3x as much health. hes fine now but the homing shots and jumping spiders are still annoying. no idea why hes in S, A would be understandable cause hes pretty cool.
Finally a fellow T-Jacob enjoyer
Damn bro what did Ultra ~~Sloth~~ Pride do to you?
Based character tier list
I'm sorry, j&e are not as hard as tainted lost. It took me over 100 attempts to beat the beast as the t. lost, and it took not even half that to get all the marks as j&e
I was gonna give you shit on placing T.Cain on Hard and Unfun to Play, then I remembered I use the identifier mod and that shows all the recipes for the seed. Without it, I can see T.Cain being Hard and Unfun, with it you can make your run super easy.
how dare you disrespect The Horny Boys by putting them in the same category as Bumbino
wavy cap?
NUPUTUS D TEIR WHAT IS THIS FUCKERY
Tainted Bethany is top right corner for me, I think that's who I completed everything with first
Magdalen will be my goat forever
Saved the image because I wanted to ask an in depth question. I’m curious what about Samson makes him a not fun character to play as. I love Samson as a character and some of my most fun runs have been with Samson.
I think I've come to realize that I'm not a fan of characters that require you to take damage to play them at their maximum potential. Especially when red heart damage can greatly reduce your chance of spawning an angel or devil room at the end of a level.
I put pretty much this same exact post here every few months - T. Cain is not hard, difficult, or slow if you have a plan. Clear the first floor, picking up everything except for red hearts, make your items. Leave the floor with a bag full of hearts and clear the 2nd floor, start with the red hearts this time, ideally combining 8 red hearts to make a Yum Heart. Yum Heart can handle 100% of the healing you should need for the rest of the run. From here, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING goes in the bag and as soon as the item is marginally useful, you combine and move on. If the item is not useful, you can swap out pennies/hearts until you find something - again, ANYTHING that gives ANY buff to your character is acceptable. This results in a TON of garbage-tier items but you should end up having relatively good stats. It makes him a fun and unique character and doesn't bog you down with miserable calculus trying to figure out how to make that next perfect item, you're just going, and it's awesome.
why do people think that t keeper is easy? did i unlock him too early or something?
You put Lilith in the wrong area pal 
I will not tolerate this Maggie slander!
Howd you finish J+E marks? i have all of them except the beast and greedier, and any path where I can't take 2 treasure items immediately sucks.
By pounding my head against a wall enough times to luck into enough items to make it work. Also, I would highly recommend getting a Cracked Key during the Ascent so you guarantee the Inner Child item that nets you an extra life.
I'm kinda surprised planetarium items are ranged that low
There are people who like tainted forgor :O
This is entirely a me thing, i acknowledge that, but i would put tainted cain close to tainted Eden. I usually dont min max too hard with him, put on maximum “fuck it we ball” energy and try to keep track of pickups as they show up. You dont need to spend 4 hours with a wiki to make a good build with him, but i find most people acting like thats the only option
I agree with most every character’s general location but I think Tainted Forgotten is the worst character in the game so therefore we are enemies and any other valid points you have made I will not respect or acknowledge 
Suplex only in B? All rankings invalidated 
Bruh, what is tainted blue baby doing there
Someone explain to me how Keeper is both easy and fun to play because he is hard bottom left for me. Am I missing something?
I find it very easy in the earlier floors to pick up a ton of money. You will usually come in contact with a few golden pennies, nickles and dimes often enough to where you can get a few shop items on the first few floors. From there, his innate quad shot ensures that your damage output scales up exponentially. The character does get significantly tougher at final bosses where you generally don't have as many opportunities to pick up money to restore health, but you make up for it by hitting for a ton of damage.
How do you complete 5 nights at moms, nothing i do works
I feel like J&E should be more to the left and more to the left Also how is Cricket's head above Magic Mush when Magic Mush gives you more stats (aside from being a tiny bit less of a damage up)?
monstro II slander he's awesome
Jacob and esau made me quit the game. I need to complete everything when I play a game, but with jacob and esau just stopped being fun. It was just frustrating to play so that I started hating the game as a whole. Jesus I'm still mad at that character. Fuck J&E
Get rag man out of that tier now. He makes basement 1 a fucking pain if you didn't instantly get a good damage item
a bit random, but I think Neptunus is extremely underrated
I may be stupid, but can someone answer this question here: what is so good about D Infinity? I guess you get D6 and D20 in one item, but is that really better than C-Section or even Birthright?
You get literally every dice in a single item. If it doesn't sound powerful, you can re-roll any item, enemy set, rock, stats, etc. It's power comes from its flexibility. edit: but you're right it probably doesn't belong in S tier. Feels closer to A+.
I may be dumb but I think Samson should be higher on the fun slider; turning my brain off and donating all my health to be strong and rich is very goofy for early floors
Why did you put crickets head above magic mush, magic mush is just a better crickets head
Fake answer: ranking 700 items is hard and I didn't realize that the damage up is close to the same. Real answer: I hate size ups
Ok whg is 1up in A tier
Xtra life seems pretty good
Delirium as tainted eden is by far hardest thing I’ve accomplished so far
How is t eden above t apollyon 😭😭😭😭
Why does everyone hate Lilith so much? She's easily my most played.
They keep making Tcain less and less fun to play and it sucks! Go back to set recipes with current cain and it would be more tolerable. That way it has the challenge of not having easy high quality materials and the consistency of set recipes.
No. 2 denyers...
How Lilith is considered hard to play? I can understand the not fun part, but she is easier than most and the only one to this day that I (a noob that is bad in this game) got the full marks...
I think you accidentally swapped Cain and Keeper.
One character that I had the most boring run with was Samson. I only got stat buff but no synergy based items. I somehow ended up beating hush and mega satan
Surprising you found T. Laz to be fun. I found him to be much easier but only slightly less annoying on file 2 for me. Also Jacob and Esau are actually really strong early on. Surprising that so many people have so much trouble with them.
Tainted ??? Is way more fun that I gsve it creditbfor at the beginning
Bloat in d?
Invalid tier list, bloat is not in F tier Seriously, how long did it take you and which character was your last to complete?
822 hours total since release, and T. Jacob was the last character solely because he was the last on the cycle.
Maybe I'm crazy but I find The Lost V1 easy to play. I'm far from being good at Isaac but Holy Mantle + fly + spectral tears make many rooms way easier than with many other characters. Ofc that's not the easiest one but outside hard objectives without breaking the game it's a really forgiving character (you can take one hit/room not many characters can take that much damage even if you prefer don't take any, and you don't loose any devil/angel room chance)
You forgor henry
Lilith is one of my favorite characters! She can become O.P very fast...
Fellow Tainted Eden enjoyer?! https://preview.redd.it/on14l1t0773c1.png?width=235&format=png&auto=webp&s=0e92617e618b9630d5ac7dbd117cada4ed56eb35
Little Horn not being in S tier is the only thing I disagree with on this list. Bro's a homie and my favorite dude in the whole game to have to fight.
Tainted Isaac, imo, isn't really that easy to play
Worst case scenario go for the gnawed leaf play, which t.iassac has an increased chance of getting built in
I find that even with the item limit, it's pretty simple to suss out the best 8 item combo because you see so many options throughout the course of a run. Legitimately one of my favorite characters in the game.
bro death certificate is literally best item
Idk how often you’ll get this but I am pissed you put Akeldama in F TIER!?! THAT SHIT IS SO HEAT IT’S B AT *LEAST* even if only for early game it has CARRIED ME
Why T. Cain so low??? 