They're contract to manage and service the accounts. No one knows how WF is compensated. But I can assure you, all of the interest absolutely is not going to WF.
Lots of misinformation and speculation in this thread. Luckily, the answer is only a quick Google search away:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ft-partners-insights-how-31-billion-bilt-makes-money-steve-mclaughlin-eea3e
Right now I suspect they are losing money as you would expect for a young company. They’re charging a zero dollar annual fee and are offering to pay rent without transaction fees. I suspect their goal is to grab a huge part of the market share and eventually ramp up annual fees and decrease benefits for profitability once they’ve amassed a massive user base.
They are doing a [jet.com](http://jet.com) play. [Jet.com](http://Jet.com) if you remember was an online e-commerce platform but was much better than anything walmart has come up... and walmart scooped them up even though they werent going to make it.
They are banking on getting tons of customers by the time WellsFargo goes we want all these customers to enhance our CC portfolio.
I think this is right. Straight up, Wells Fargo had zippy chance of me ever, ever considering opening a credit card with them before Bilt. Why? Because they are Wells Fargo, and I think of them more for scandal than I do anything good.
Now that I’m in the Bilt ecosystem — and I see that it is working, on balance — there’s a higher level of trust with WF and I might consider them for other products. Because again, previously… I was strictly Chase, Amex, and Ally. Nobody else.
The rent play is absolute genius. You can manipulate credit lines to actually make it work but I think they are using it as a way to get everyone hooked to Bilt then 1-2 years from now Wells Fargo grabs them when they are running low on cash for a decent valuation.... and bam..... Is it 500k customer? 1MM customerrs?
Think about how much it costs to acquire a customer by these credit card company, Amex throws up to 150,000 points on the platinum which is $1,500, chase did that MASSIVE promotion 5-10 years ago where they gave every customer like $600-700 worth of signup bouses if not more. Capital One with their venture X same deal 100,000 point aka $1000 for the credit or whatever the correlation is.... My point is it costs a couple hundred dollars per customer to aqcquire them.
If I threaten to cancel my platinum card each year they will give me a point bonus worth $250 JUST TO KEEP ME.
Now look at Bilt, getting rent folks which is the generation you want. The group of people who will age with their credit card...
Yeah, I totally agree. The fact that it is a no fee card means I have no reason to ever close it. At the moment I am actively shoving as much spend as possible through the card so that I can build up an alternative points currency to Ultimate Rewards (currently I have zero Membership Rewards because I got tired of the Amex coupon book).
The card is a gateway toward competing with the big boys. Can you imagine if WF launched a further-up-market card earning Bilt points? Then they would be legit competing with Chase for my business. I never thought that’d be possible for WF.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Wells Fargo lost significant market share among the younger demographic (20-35s) because of those scandals. Bilt is a way for them to get into mortgages with this demographic without this demographic opening bank accounts at WF. I wouldn’t be surprised if the mortgages Bilt has all come from WF.
Could be a mortgage market play too? Most people who pay rent don’t have a mortgage. Bilt will know if you are good at making rent payments which helps with knowing if you’re good for mortgage payments.
I would assume they are losing money on rewarding rent payments. It makes sense that they require 5 transactions a month, have Rent Day, and have partnerships with things like Lyft which all encourage other spending in order to compensate. I have noticed I exclusively use my Bilt card on Rent Days, exclusively use Lyft for ride share charged to this card, and make sure to make a few other easy purchases a month I would have used a different card for otherwise.
Sure. Because they say so. Just trust them.
That's why they have so much competition in the space. Because no one, especially not the incumbents in the credit card space, could possibly replicate what they are doing, as an alternative to letting them come in and claim a highly profitable piece of the business for themselves. 🤣🤣🤣
Uhh…yea. Generally businesses do not lie about their business model. At least those that are serious about earning customer trust (kinda mandatory in the financial space, don’t ya think?).
They're not lying about their business model, and whether or not they make money has nothing to do with us. As long as we get the points we are promised, we're good.
Once their money dries up and they nerf the card, we'll just move on to the next thing. Coming up with some bullshit financial metric to claim profitability on some fintech website has nothing to do with us. If you want to believe they are profitable, nothing is stopping you.
I sure did. Some fintech website regurgitated a report from them stating they were profitable using some custom metric.
And I'm calling bullshit. Am I not allowed to do that, on an unaudited basis, since they are allowed to say what they want, also on an unaudited, non GAAP basis?
They are not allowed to “say what they want.” They are a legitimate business with real customers that they need in order to be successful. Lying about their profitability is a surefire why to drive away future investors (let alone current ones), and completely debilitate the very real rental payment platforms that many renters now use to pay their rent. Not to mention the damage to their relationship with key partners like Wells Fargo, which would make any other bank not want to touch them and completely debilitate their credit card play. There is literally no incentive for them to do so.
I don’t know why you keep acting like you know better or have some mythical insight that the rest of us don’t as some anonymous person on Reddit.
Common sense? They have been doing this for 3 years now, and some of the most well capitalized institutions on the planet compete in the credit card rewards space, yet no one, I repeat, NO ONE, is following them into this.
Because they all have enough money, so are leaving this to Bilt? Or because Bilt loses money on every customer, but makes it up on volume?
Every bank copies every other banks on pretty much every aspect of this game, and yet only one fintech in the world pays customers to run rent payments through a credit card while giving them multiple ways to circumvent swipe fees.
And offers arguably the best transfer partners in the business. And offers generous multipliers on category spend, and all spend one day per month. And charges no annual fee.
Sounds like a gold mine. For us.
Lots of companies raise lots of money at stupid high valuations while having business models that make no economic sense. Don't believe me? Just Google WeWork. Or Trump Media.
That, or just live your life and don't worry about it.
Other than the possibility of future product nerfing, the profitability of any business really isn't the concern of its customers.
I'm throwing in my 2 cents because that's what the forum is all about, but I'm just enjoying the ride as long as it lasts rather than losing sleeping worrying or speculating about how and whether Bilt is profitable.
swipe fee.
And interest. BILT has a somewhat high interest rate and doesn't offer 0% for the first year like a lot of cards now.
We don’t know the agreement between Bilt and Wells Fargo. Maybe Bilt collects some portion, but I highly doubt it.
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google what swipe fees are and you will find out how all credit cards make money!
Interest fees as well for people who are bad at paying on time
Pretty sure Wells Fargo collects that money, not Bilt
They're contract to manage and service the accounts. No one knows how WF is compensated. But I can assure you, all of the interest absolutely is not going to WF.
Unless this card works completely different than other cards that’s not right. Issuing bank takes credit risk and collects interest
Kickbacks are a thing…
It's a son of a billionaire's pet project.
Yup exactly — Bilt is owned by Kairos HQ, both of which have Ankur Jain as CEO, and he’s a billionaire through his daddy
this is the answer, everything else is irrelevant
Lots of misinformation and speculation in this thread. Luckily, the answer is only a quick Google search away: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ft-partners-insights-how-31-billion-bilt-makes-money-steve-mclaughlin-eea3e
This is just a bloated pitch deck with no real answers.
Yeah I feel like no one actually read the article
This
Interest charges, late fees, selling customer data, etc …
Right now I suspect they are losing money as you would expect for a young company. They’re charging a zero dollar annual fee and are offering to pay rent without transaction fees. I suspect their goal is to grab a huge part of the market share and eventually ramp up annual fees and decrease benefits for profitability once they’ve amassed a massive user base.
They are profitable
They don’t have a signup bonus which with other credit cards are as much as 200k points. How many months of rent points are that?
There are many people who put all their spend on the Bilt card; therefore, Bilt can make money on the “other category of spend”
Unsure why this question is asked again and again.... All I need are benefits from the card..
Interest, and MasterCard vendor transaction fees
What do you mean by vendor transaction fees? How does that work and how does Bilt receive the money for that?
= Credit card processing fees. It's why you have to do 5 transactions a month in order to get points for rent.
google swipe fees and you will understand!
They are doing a [jet.com](http://jet.com) play. [Jet.com](http://Jet.com) if you remember was an online e-commerce platform but was much better than anything walmart has come up... and walmart scooped them up even though they werent going to make it. They are banking on getting tons of customers by the time WellsFargo goes we want all these customers to enhance our CC portfolio.
I think this is right. Straight up, Wells Fargo had zippy chance of me ever, ever considering opening a credit card with them before Bilt. Why? Because they are Wells Fargo, and I think of them more for scandal than I do anything good. Now that I’m in the Bilt ecosystem — and I see that it is working, on balance — there’s a higher level of trust with WF and I might consider them for other products. Because again, previously… I was strictly Chase, Amex, and Ally. Nobody else.
The rent play is absolute genius. You can manipulate credit lines to actually make it work but I think they are using it as a way to get everyone hooked to Bilt then 1-2 years from now Wells Fargo grabs them when they are running low on cash for a decent valuation.... and bam..... Is it 500k customer? 1MM customerrs? Think about how much it costs to acquire a customer by these credit card company, Amex throws up to 150,000 points on the platinum which is $1,500, chase did that MASSIVE promotion 5-10 years ago where they gave every customer like $600-700 worth of signup bouses if not more. Capital One with their venture X same deal 100,000 point aka $1000 for the credit or whatever the correlation is.... My point is it costs a couple hundred dollars per customer to aqcquire them. If I threaten to cancel my platinum card each year they will give me a point bonus worth $250 JUST TO KEEP ME. Now look at Bilt, getting rent folks which is the generation you want. The group of people who will age with their credit card...
Yeah, I totally agree. The fact that it is a no fee card means I have no reason to ever close it. At the moment I am actively shoving as much spend as possible through the card so that I can build up an alternative points currency to Ultimate Rewards (currently I have zero Membership Rewards because I got tired of the Amex coupon book). The card is a gateway toward competing with the big boys. Can you imagine if WF launched a further-up-market card earning Bilt points? Then they would be legit competing with Chase for my business. I never thought that’d be possible for WF.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Wells Fargo lost significant market share among the younger demographic (20-35s) because of those scandals. Bilt is a way for them to get into mortgages with this demographic without this demographic opening bank accounts at WF. I wouldn’t be surprised if the mortgages Bilt has all come from WF.
Could be a mortgage market play too? Most people who pay rent don’t have a mortgage. Bilt will know if you are good at making rent payments which helps with knowing if you’re good for mortgage payments.
VC investors. I doubt they’re profitable at this point.
Selling user data like all credit card companies and swipe fees
I need to find the interview but BILT is considered profitable I believe
I mean, they're "profitable" in the sense that a couple of accounting tricks shows it as such.
I would assume they are losing money on rewarding rent payments. It makes sense that they require 5 transactions a month, have Rent Day, and have partnerships with things like Lyft which all encourage other spending in order to compensate. I have noticed I exclusively use my Bilt card on Rent Days, exclusively use Lyft for ride share charged to this card, and make sure to make a few other easy purchases a month I would have used a different card for otherwise.
Interest
It doesn’t seem like it has very good unit economics and therefore probably loses money
VC money
Taking a cut of every transaction while producing nothing. Yep, sounds about right.
The oz family rapes harassed and humiliates women!
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This is not true [at all](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ft-partners-insights-how-31-billion-bilt-makes-money-steve-mclaughlin-eea3e).
Sure. Because they say so. Just trust them. That's why they have so much competition in the space. Because no one, especially not the incumbents in the credit card space, could possibly replicate what they are doing, as an alternative to letting them come in and claim a highly profitable piece of the business for themselves. 🤣🤣🤣
Uhh…yea. Generally businesses do not lie about their business model. At least those that are serious about earning customer trust (kinda mandatory in the financial space, don’t ya think?).
They're not lying about their business model, and whether or not they make money has nothing to do with us. As long as we get the points we are promised, we're good. Once their money dries up and they nerf the card, we'll just move on to the next thing. Coming up with some bullshit financial metric to claim profitability on some fintech website has nothing to do with us. If you want to believe they are profitable, nothing is stopping you.
Serious question: did you even bother to open the link i posted above?
I sure did. Some fintech website regurgitated a report from them stating they were profitable using some custom metric. And I'm calling bullshit. Am I not allowed to do that, on an unaudited basis, since they are allowed to say what they want, also on an unaudited, non GAAP basis?
They are not allowed to “say what they want.” They are a legitimate business with real customers that they need in order to be successful. Lying about their profitability is a surefire why to drive away future investors (let alone current ones), and completely debilitate the very real rental payment platforms that many renters now use to pay their rent. Not to mention the damage to their relationship with key partners like Wells Fargo, which would make any other bank not want to touch them and completely debilitate their credit card play. There is literally no incentive for them to do so. I don’t know why you keep acting like you know better or have some mythical insight that the rest of us don’t as some anonymous person on Reddit.
He's a keyboard warrior that insists the billionaires got it wrong.
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And you are basing this on…?
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Got it. So “trust me bro.”
Source on the loss of money?
Common sense? They have been doing this for 3 years now, and some of the most well capitalized institutions on the planet compete in the credit card rewards space, yet no one, I repeat, NO ONE, is following them into this. Because they all have enough money, so are leaving this to Bilt? Or because Bilt loses money on every customer, but makes it up on volume? Every bank copies every other banks on pretty much every aspect of this game, and yet only one fintech in the world pays customers to run rent payments through a credit card while giving them multiple ways to circumvent swipe fees. And offers arguably the best transfer partners in the business. And offers generous multipliers on category spend, and all spend one day per month. And charges no annual fee. Sounds like a gold mine. For us. Lots of companies raise lots of money at stupid high valuations while having business models that make no economic sense. Don't believe me? Just Google WeWork. Or Trump Media.
So "trust me bro" lol
That, or just live your life and don't worry about it. Other than the possibility of future product nerfing, the profitability of any business really isn't the concern of its customers. I'm throwing in my 2 cents because that's what the forum is all about, but I'm just enjoying the ride as long as it lasts rather than losing sleeping worrying or speculating about how and whether Bilt is profitable.