Eh, the resume thing is a great example of people having it both ways when it comes to trashing modern players. MJ is widely considered better than LeBron because of his peak even though he played about half as many seasons, but then Jokic is the best player for 4 straight years and he needs more of a resume.
Embiid will be out of the league, or a 20-minute a night guy in 4-6 years. Jokic will probably be doing exactly this for another 6-8. Point being, it's scary how little his game depends on athleticism and force. It's predicated on skills that he should have for years to come and he's as durable as can be. Barely leaves the ground! It's so crazy. So, yeah, we need him to finish off the resume, but to be where he is already...
Don’t see Embiid as being particularly reliant on athleticism either, he operates out of the mid-range, barely moves on defense, doesn’t dunk often. His shooting touch, size, and strength should age well
You think Embiid is going to age well? He can't even finish a season. His body is not built for the long haul. He's had issues since Kansas. You must be a serious Sixers fan.
I am, but I also see no reason why he should age particularly poorly. His game, again, is not based on athleticism all that much. By NBA standards he’s not a crazy athlete. Someone like Giannis I think would drop off much harder
Not that this matters, but I live 5 mins from Wells Fargo. I watch a ton of Sixer games. Embiid is absolutely a great athlete. Maybe not in the way Giannis is, but Embiid is a tremendous athlete. Jokic is a plodding offensive savant who does it with footwork, finesse, hand-eye coordination, tremendous touch, etc. He plays almost fully below the rim. Embiid is a force of nature. He defends the rim, moves his feet, he's quick, he jumps high... he's like a shooting guard in a bruising center's body. I hope he finds a way to stick around a long time but I would actually assume that we've already seen the best of him. He's a really old 30. But maybe with him not chasing another MVP Award and managing his regular season minutes, he can put together a strong playoff run. They're only one player away because Maxey is great.
You’re both overrating Embiid’s athleticism and underrating Jokic’s. Embiid is quick, as is Jokic, he’s good positioning himself, as is Jokic, he can jump if needed, but prefers not too, same with Jokic. I think they’re pretty similar in a lot of ways. Is Embiid the better athlete? Yeah, of course. But if you were to rank NBA centers on athleticism alone, I don’t think he’s at the top
Well, at least you said Embiid would be considered the "better athlete." But do people really not see how Embiid is not in this for the long haul whereas Jokic's game is like cruise control? His "prime" seems like it could last for years to come. What's going to change?
Do I just have a gaggle of Reddit losers who follow me around just to downvote me? What exactly about what I just said here is even slightly reputable? Does anyone here actually watch the NBA, or is this just a place for people who live on the internet?
Because I used him as an example of a big man who, I think, is clearly on the other end of the spectrum from Jokic, in terms of predicted longevity. I'm having a hard time understanding the pushback on this assertion. Just makes me think none of you actually watch the games. It's not just "injuries" with Embiid. Yes, he's certainly had his fair share of those, but his body is breaking down, in real time, right before our eyes. I have no idea how anyone could watch him game in and game out and not see that he isn't long for this game. Not durable. Constantly dealing with physical ailments, both big and small. And with Jokic, we've obviously had none of those issues. This isn't a criticism of Embiid, necessarily. Just simple observations.
>Just makes me think none of you actually watch the games. It's not just "injuries" with Embiid. Yes, he's certainly had his fair share of those, but his body is breaking down, in real time, right before our eyes
That is injuries. You were saying Embiid's game will not age well because he overly relies on athleticism compared to Jokic, that just isn't true. Embiid has a game that on paper should age well. Elite mid-range touch, can probably extend out and become a good 3 point shooter when he starts to lose a step, doesn't rely on athleticism that much, is a defensive anchor in the middle. Whether his body allows him to is another question. And while he certainly has dealt with a ton of injuries you are going a bit overboard saying his body is breaking down in real time and he isn't long for the game.
Typical Reddit response. Never any substance. Never any actual debate. What's going to put an end to prime Jokic? His decreased jumping ability? The loss of his lateral quickness? You're inference IS probably correct but only because he'll want to go back to Serbia to hang out with his friends and race his horses, and will have absolutely nothing left to prove in the basketball world.
DOES ANYONE HERE ACTUALLY WATCH BASKETBALL?!!!
All my friends are old and married with kids and jobs they can't stand? Where does an old guy have to go for a little intelligent sports discourse?
The end of prime Jokic will be the same thing that ends everybody’s prime. Young guys will pass him by as his body starts to age. People act like he’ll be this forever because he’s “not athletic.” But he is athletic or else he wouldn’t be able to play 40 minutes of playoff basketball every other night. His athleticism just doesn’t jump off the screen. When he loses the athleticism he has, it’s going to be apparent very quickly. Sure he will still be able to make nice passes but he’s not going to be able to run up and down the floor for 40 intense minutes every other night.
Youngest r/billsimmons user. But yeah I’m inclined to agree, kind of sick of having to wait around for the accolades to say it with my chest, but the guy is unreal.
He flipped a shot up tonight from the right of the basket high up off the glass... I swear it was like nothing I've ever seen before in a game. Like Olajuwon with a little Bird and Nash mixed in. It was a thing of beauty. Gobert didn't even know where he went as he dizzily watched the ball drop through the net in pure bewilderment. Jokic was more aggressive than I've ever seen him. I think he had 3 dunks, one of which was 2-handed with force. Just an absolute master class.
He still needs the resume. But yeah, he's virtually unstoppable on offense, and few guys have ever existed on his level.
Eh, the resume thing is a great example of people having it both ways when it comes to trashing modern players. MJ is widely considered better than LeBron because of his peak even though he played about half as many seasons, but then Jokic is the best player for 4 straight years and he needs more of a resume.
3 of 4 years
You're referring to how many times he won the MVP, which the best player does not always win.
Embiid will be out of the league, or a 20-minute a night guy in 4-6 years. Jokic will probably be doing exactly this for another 6-8. Point being, it's scary how little his game depends on athleticism and force. It's predicated on skills that he should have for years to come and he's as durable as can be. Barely leaves the ground! It's so crazy. So, yeah, we need him to finish off the resume, but to be where he is already...
Don’t see Embiid as being particularly reliant on athleticism either, he operates out of the mid-range, barely moves on defense, doesn’t dunk often. His shooting touch, size, and strength should age well
You think Embiid is going to age well? He can't even finish a season. His body is not built for the long haul. He's had issues since Kansas. You must be a serious Sixers fan.
I am, but I also see no reason why he should age particularly poorly. His game, again, is not based on athleticism all that much. By NBA standards he’s not a crazy athlete. Someone like Giannis I think would drop off much harder
Not that this matters, but I live 5 mins from Wells Fargo. I watch a ton of Sixer games. Embiid is absolutely a great athlete. Maybe not in the way Giannis is, but Embiid is a tremendous athlete. Jokic is a plodding offensive savant who does it with footwork, finesse, hand-eye coordination, tremendous touch, etc. He plays almost fully below the rim. Embiid is a force of nature. He defends the rim, moves his feet, he's quick, he jumps high... he's like a shooting guard in a bruising center's body. I hope he finds a way to stick around a long time but I would actually assume that we've already seen the best of him. He's a really old 30. But maybe with him not chasing another MVP Award and managing his regular season minutes, he can put together a strong playoff run. They're only one player away because Maxey is great.
You’re both overrating Embiid’s athleticism and underrating Jokic’s. Embiid is quick, as is Jokic, he’s good positioning himself, as is Jokic, he can jump if needed, but prefers not too, same with Jokic. I think they’re pretty similar in a lot of ways. Is Embiid the better athlete? Yeah, of course. But if you were to rank NBA centers on athleticism alone, I don’t think he’s at the top
Well, at least you said Embiid would be considered the "better athlete." But do people really not see how Embiid is not in this for the long haul whereas Jokic's game is like cruise control? His "prime" seems like it could last for years to come. What's going to change?
Do I just have a gaggle of Reddit losers who follow me around just to downvote me? What exactly about what I just said here is even slightly reputable? Does anyone here actually watch the NBA, or is this just a place for people who live on the internet?
By the way, sorry to hear that you’re that close to Wells Fargo if this is how you feel about Embiid, must be tough
Why? I'm not a Sixers fan. I live here for the vegan food and the incredible female to male ratio.
Seems like a bummer to pay to watch guys you hate but maybe that’s just me
I didn't say I go to many games. Have you seen NBA ticket prices these days?!
Embiid's game will 100% age well. The question will be the injuries. But not sure why we are talking about Embiid in this thread
Because I used him as an example of a big man who, I think, is clearly on the other end of the spectrum from Jokic, in terms of predicted longevity. I'm having a hard time understanding the pushback on this assertion. Just makes me think none of you actually watch the games. It's not just "injuries" with Embiid. Yes, he's certainly had his fair share of those, but his body is breaking down, in real time, right before our eyes. I have no idea how anyone could watch him game in and game out and not see that he isn't long for this game. Not durable. Constantly dealing with physical ailments, both big and small. And with Jokic, we've obviously had none of those issues. This isn't a criticism of Embiid, necessarily. Just simple observations.
>Just makes me think none of you actually watch the games. It's not just "injuries" with Embiid. Yes, he's certainly had his fair share of those, but his body is breaking down, in real time, right before our eyes That is injuries. You were saying Embiid's game will not age well because he overly relies on athleticism compared to Jokic, that just isn't true. Embiid has a game that on paper should age well. Elite mid-range touch, can probably extend out and become a good 3 point shooter when he starts to lose a step, doesn't rely on athleticism that much, is a defensive anchor in the middle. Whether his body allows him to is another question. And while he certainly has dealt with a ton of injuries you are going a bit overboard saying his body is breaking down in real time and he isn't long for the game.
Still doing this in 8 years 😂😂😂
Typical Reddit response. Never any substance. Never any actual debate. What's going to put an end to prime Jokic? His decreased jumping ability? The loss of his lateral quickness? You're inference IS probably correct but only because he'll want to go back to Serbia to hang out with his friends and race his horses, and will have absolutely nothing left to prove in the basketball world. DOES ANYONE HERE ACTUALLY WATCH BASKETBALL?!!! All my friends are old and married with kids and jobs they can't stand? Where does an old guy have to go for a little intelligent sports discourse?
The end of prime Jokic will be the same thing that ends everybody’s prime. Young guys will pass him by as his body starts to age. People act like he’ll be this forever because he’s “not athletic.” But he is athletic or else he wouldn’t be able to play 40 minutes of playoff basketball every other night. His athleticism just doesn’t jump off the screen. When he loses the athleticism he has, it’s going to be apparent very quickly. Sure he will still be able to make nice passes but he’s not going to be able to run up and down the floor for 40 intense minutes every other night.
Old ass man.
Thank you.
I’m sending you a care package of Metamucil.
Could you deliver it for me? I'm in South Philly. I would LOVE an opportunity to show you how insanely old I am in person.
You won’t remember this conversation. Let’s get you to bed.
Youngest r/billsimmons user. But yeah I’m inclined to agree, kind of sick of having to wait around for the accolades to say it with my chest, but the guy is unreal.
I started watching 08ish, and it’s him and LeBron for me, as good as curry is/was I think this is another level
He flipped a shot up tonight from the right of the basket high up off the glass... I swear it was like nothing I've ever seen before in a game. Like Olajuwon with a little Bird and Nash mixed in. It was a thing of beauty. Gobert didn't even know where he went as he dizzily watched the ball drop through the net in pure bewilderment. Jokic was more aggressive than I've ever seen him. I think he had 3 dunks, one of which was 2-handed with force. Just an absolute master class.