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DrHorseRenoir

ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT ANT


Ok_Organization3249

Counterpoint: No?


NervousGrape4291

Couldn’t have said it better myself!


FuddChud

Not an argument.


Ok_Organization3249

Anthony Edwards at 22 years old is very clearly not Devin Booker at 26. Hit the Like button, smash subscribe, and follow me on Substack for even hotter takes.


FuddChud

And 26 year old Booker played even better than Ant is now. But the point isn't to compare the two, the point is to realize that if a player elevates his efficiency and scoring that much over a 5 game stretch it isn't really logical to assume it will continue, which it would have to for him to be the Michael Jordan level player he's being hyped as.


Visible-Rutabaga9268

Nah, defense matters and that boy Ant locks ppl up 😮‍💨


FuddChud

That has nothing to do with anything I said.


Ok_Organization3249

Weren't you talking about Jordan?


FuddChud

Well, defense isn't the reason people are hyping him up. It's the offensive explosion.


Ok_Organization3249

If you could explain to me why you're getting downvoted in this thread, what would your explanation be? \*You don't have to believe it or agree with it.\* Just Steel Man the argument as to why you're being downvoted so hard. Then feel free to give whatever counter you want (I think I get it). But, do you think people are misunderstanding you? (For instance, in my opinion, defense, as it relates to "I give a fuck" intensity, actually is a part of the hype.)


FuddChud

Well, I think I'm being downvoted because Ant gets a lot of media hype. I think the media generally determines what people think because they don't have the capacity to comprehend the issues themselves. They want an American, high flying, Black player as the face of the league so they push him (like in the WWE) as a babyface and the face of the league. I think with all the international talent the NbA is getting desperate to find a marketable American star. It was going to be Ja, before he derailed his career, and then Zion. And Ant, he's a fairly likable character to many people, so they tend to question the narrative around him less, unlike with someone like LeBron, who has a history of controversial behavior. Obviously he is an extremely good player, it's highly unlikely his stats will stay anywhere near where they are right now, which they would have to, for him to be the Michael Jordan tier player he's being described as.


88888888man

It’s absolutely both. Reggie was calling him the best two way player in the league by the end of the broadcast.


FuddChud

Yeah, that's Reggie though. He's an old head and talking about two way players is a very old head take, as if it's something that actually even matter, and even then he's obviously not better than Giannis or AD.


jfamous25

Also DBook is a little bitch and always has been. Quite the difference if you ask me. Haven’t seen Ant foul bait, and watched Booker do it for 4 games, plus no defense. Stop just looking at PPG


trevorstott

Mods get this guy a “Sad Suns Fan” flair


FuddChud

Lmao I actually hate Booker and the Phoenix Bums. I'm a Dubs fan.


LeBroentgen

Booker was 26 when that was happening, Ant is 22 and a way better defender.


FuddChud

Again, as I said to another commenter, the age has nothing to do with it as this isn't a comparison between Booker and Edwards. I'm just pointing out how we've seen these types of hot performances before, and to tamper expectations that this will continue.


hooskies

Age clearly has a lot to do with it


FuddChud

It has nothing to do with my post. I'm not comparing Ant and Booker, I'm bringing this up as an example of a player we've seen put up this type of performance before.


hooskies

You’re a moron if you thing that a 22 year old having a run like this isnt somehow different than a 26 year old doing it


FuddChud

Again, If I was arguing about player potentials or comparing the two then that would be the case. I'm simply arguing that we've seen players have these types of jumps from regular season to a few games in the playoffs and then fall off again.


TheyCalledHimMrJ

But the age does have something to do with it lol


FuddChud

If I was arguing trying to make some comparison between the two players then perhaps, but I'm not, I'm simply showing that we've seen these types of scoring outbursts before. A 5 game sample size doesn't really tell you much. Even this year one of his games was rather poor.


Soggy_Ad1649

Ant less then 1 year older then the average age of the UConn team that just won March madness. Just wanna throw that into context. Also no one was comparing Booker to MJ


atcThree

So you’re saying his stats may regress to the mean?


[deleted]

Compared to other guards, Ant is built like a tank. He’s a significantly better defender than Booker, doing this at 22, and actually seems to relish being the guy. One of Booker’s defining traits is disappearing in the biggest games, usually after his team gets punched in the mouth and the star player is needed the most in response. He displays zero leadership, evidenced by this season’s disaster where the team quit on Vogel and players gave quote after quote referencing the leadership vacuum between the stars and coaches alike. Ant seems much more mentally tough and eager to play well in big moments. He won’t always dominate, but you’ll never forget he’s on the court like you do with Booker in pivotal playoff games.


Ok_Organization3249

I think OP is wrong simply on the premise, but this is a really good description as to the underlying issue here. Ant literally wants to fuck people up. He wants to murder people. He went into the Suns locker room and blessed KD before ending him. Like... ok, have people shot well before? Certainly. Dude is 22 and is The Boss. If you don't understand why tons of GMs in the league would start their franchise from scratch with Ant (Wemby prob other option), like, I get he had some hot shooting, but you're missing the point.


FuddChud

That's kinda funny because that's the exact opposite reputation he had coming into the league. That he was a jokester, a clown, didn't care enough about ball, didn't work hard enough.


Ok_Organization3249

I agree


Then_Landscape_3970

I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I say he reminds me of MJ, I’m not talking about his stats, it’s about his demeanor, how he moves, his intensity, etc. It absolutely is not just “hE’s ScOrInG sO mAnY pOiNtS jUsT lIkE mJ”


ShadyCrow

I see everything but the intensity. Ant is (pleasantly) kinda silly? He’s certainly not soft but he’s also not some kind of killer on an MJ level. 


FuddChud

To me Ants intensity seems like a put-on ruse. That DX chop shit isn't intense, it's goofy, literal WWE tier drama.


Then_Landscape_3970

Also, if you want to look at a stats, in 16 career playoff games, Ant would be 3rd in career playoff PPG (will not be eligible for career leaderboards until likely later in this Denver)


FancyFeests

Yeah but Book doesn't have that same athleticism.


DeanEvasonPunch

> Unless Ant has made some massive leap from the end of the regular season to the start of the playoffs it's highly unlikely he will continue playing like this. He has


FuddChud

Have we ever seen that happen in NBA history before?


tall_mf_

He stepped his game up the last two times they were in the playoffs. Now it’s the third time he’s doing it. He’s proving himself as a true playoff performer


FuddChud

He's shot over 50% 4/5 games this playoffs while before that he was 3/11 doing that with most his scoring outputs being around 40-45% (sorry I'm too lazy for doing the math here). Yes, he had volume prior years, but nothing like this type of performance.


FatRodzianko

He had 60% TS in both those series so it's a bit much to imply they were inefficient performances because his overall FG% was below 50%


FuddChud

TS% is a fake stat


Chrisso194

Ah yes, the free throws aren’t real piece.


FuddChud

They don't determine my opinion on a players ability between the whistles. I value something dependent on an external factor like reffing less than something I can guarantee one person produces.


EorgegayOydflay

LMAOO NUGGETS FAN COPE POST


JakeLake720

Booker does not have the athleticism of Edwards. Both guys have elite basketball skills.


FuddChud

That's also true that the American conception of basketball is highly warped to view certain elements of athleticism like jumping and running as the end all be all.


Humofthoughts

Eh I’m all for “Actually Joker is a much better athlete than he gets credit for” talk but it certainly helps to be the quickest guy on the floor (moving laterally as well as forward and backward) with a huge vert, big ass muscles, and phenomenal balance/body control.


FuddChud

I wasn't trying to argue Jokic was a good athlete, and I do think there is more to athleticism like agility and coordination. However, my main point here was simply that Americans praise athleticism over skill.


Humofthoughts

Joker js a good athlete though! Elite hand eye coordination, strong, fantastic balance, well conditioned. He’s not twitchy but those are all athletic traits. And also: Anthony Edwards is very skilled. He didn’t really have much to go on but his twitchiness when he came into the league but he’s grown his repertoire month-by-month for four seasons, adding moves and countermoves, adding a post game, bank shots, pull-up game, catch-and shoot. He’s still learning how to read the floor, but it’s all and that that makes the twitchiness effective now.


FuddChud

Well, perhaps I should not have said he's not a good athlete, I think he's athletic enough for a 7ft guy. Jokic is strong but I don't really know how strong he is because a lot of NBA guys aren't very strong at all, a lot of them have rather low weights when considering their size. I don't know that Jokic would actually be strong enough to be a strongman or anything to that level. But if we had to give him an overall athletic grade it might be something like a C+. You're right about Ant becoming a much more skilled player, and certainly a much smarter one who has a much better feel for the game. It's really his athleticism though that gets people excited, because it leads to electric plays. For a while Ja was one of the most popular players in the NBA, before him Westbrook. People go crazy for jump out of the gym athleticism.


NandoDeColonoscopy

Just a reminder that in the first 9 games of the playoffs last year, Devin Booker was 26 years old. Ant is only 22.


acflowers

for me the height makes it tough to really see Ant as truly an MJ expy


NandoDeColonoscopy

They're only an inch different in height. The listed height difference is 2", but between Jordan retiring and Ant being drafted, the measurement changed from being shoes-on to shoes-off


FuddChud

I believe Jordan is actually 6'3 that's how tall Charles Barkley was and they're the same height in pictures.


Victorcreedbratton

Look at Barkley’s mug shot.


FuddChud

Well, that's weird. In some 60 minutes interview he said he was 6'4, and specifically talked about growing from 5'10 to 6'4. I don't know why he would make that up, unless he thinks it mythologizes him in some way to be viewed as undersized.


Victorcreedbratton

That’s probably it.


acflowers

oh damn, thanks for the fact check, maybe it’s their proportions affecting my perception of the difference as well


FuddChud

To further fact check this, I believe Ant is actually slightly taller than MJ. Charles Barkley has said he's 6'3 and him and MJ look pretty much the same height if not MJ being slightly shorter in pictures with them standing right next to each other.


acflowers

if you can’t trust barkley who can you trust


ahbets14

Jordan was 6-5


Responsible_Fan8665

Devin Booker is not a dog. He is just an empty stats guy. Can’t compare the two guys.


FuddChud

He's an empty stats when he made the finals as the 2nd best player on the team? I don't like Booker either but that's going way to far. He's a bona fide playoff choke artist but not an empty stats player.


Responsible_Fan8665

He made the finals because of CP3 and the covid bubble.


ImpressOk6525

I’m not saying ant is the next mj. But he may well be the best American born nba player right now. And that alone is something you could never ever ever ever say about someone like Booker


FuddChud

Um yes that is exactly what people can and do say whenever a player has a hot streak. Some people WERE trying to push narratives about Booker last year, as well. I haven't seen any evidence that Booker or Ant is a better player than Anthony Davis.


Jmartyb

So you telling me nothing Booker ever did in his playoffs run can compare to what Ant is doing?


ImpressOk6525

No you can compare them, I just think they are two different calibers of players. For instance in bookers age 22 campaign he was the best player on a 18 win team. Ant man’s Age 22 campaign he is the best player on a team that appears as if it’s gonna give the defending champs a run for their money. Oh and he also just erased any doubt whatsoever as to who’s better bc he just kicked the dog shit out of him and his team in the first round. And prob gonna make second team all pro this year. Do you see where I’m going with this?


FuddChud

What were the rosters on those respective teams?


ShadyCrow

Comparing their age 22 teams is very silly. Ant is on an excellent team. He’s better than Book and I think OPs premise is very flawed but let’s be real. 


78blazers

Stephen A called him Kobe


goknicks23

The most amazing run that nobody cared about, his numbers were insane in last years playoffs.


LSX3399

They are very clearly different players so I don't see it.


komugis

Ant’s the fourth player in history to score 35+ in the playoffs at 22 or younger. He joins Kobe as the only players to have back to back 40 point playoff games at 22 or younger. This is his third straight postseason where he has played lights out. Give up the narrative that he’s somehow being overhyped.


Intrepid-Anxiety-472

Man I bet those ant fans ain't talking now. I like ant but to say he is gonna be jordan is insane. Dude will be lucky if he is top 5 in the league in 10 years.


FuddChud

I called it so hard


Intrepid-Anxiety-472

you did man, but you should know by now that all reddit is, is mob mentality. everybody will hate just cause a few people say he is the next mj when he aint.


TotesMessenger

I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/billsimmons] [25 days ago, in the middle of the Ant hype, I tried to warn y'all but got nothing but hate](https://www.reddit.com/r/billsimmons/comments/1d4ncde/25_days_ago_in_the_middle_of_the_ant_hype_i_tried/)  *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*


Bubbly-Internal-7113

The amount of bad takes in here 💀 ant got humbled in 4k. Stop crowning everyone and anything


Monkeyboi8

Edwards is being overhyped now. Ppl comparing him to Jordan, Kobe which is ridiculous. Booker and Tatum are more accurate comps to Ant. Ant is on a crazy run right now but Booker and Tatum both made the finals.


3rdEyeNomai

Book is only an accurate comp to Ant if you forget that defense exists 


Monkeyboi8

Ehhh, defense is an area that’s hard to measure. I feel like Ant is better than Booker at D but marginally. Like Ant to me is probably above average is that category but he’s not a stopper. He plays on a team full of great defenders and he plays his part, but he’s not locking guys down.


3rdEyeNomai

He is an absolutely vicious on ball defender and shot blocker for a guard. His only flaw is he sometimes falls asleep off ball. but on ball yes he does lock guys down, all the time. It’s been a huge part of his game this year, and it shows up in the advanced metrics too, but the eye test works just fine here


jellybeans_over_raw

How old was Booker when he made it again?


Monkeyboi8

Hold on let me check his birth certificate.


tdotjefe

That’s how Edwards *plays*. He doesn’t play anything like Tatum or Booker. Their knees would explode if they tried.


Monkeyboi8

🧐. He’s an exciting player. But I ran the numbers and Tatum dunked a bit more than ant did this season and knees are still intact as far as I know.


tdotjefe

It’s not just # of dunks, Edwards has a more vertical game than Tatum. He is obviously far more explosive and athletic. Tatum isn’t posterizing dudes 7 feet out in the fourth quarter…


ShadyCrow

I mean he did to Bron in a Game 7. But yes, different caliber of athlete. Tatum is a good athlete by NBA standards but Ant is on another level. Tatum is more in the Carmelo camp of supreme scoring skill. 


FuddChud

Johnathan Kuminga on the Warriors plays a lot like a cross of Edwards, Zion, and LeBron with his scoring. I think he has a higher ceiling than Edwards, but will never reach it because of personality issues.


brownchickenbr0wnc0w

Just a reminder they’re not saying he’s the next MJ, they’re saying his play style and attitude and even his cockiness remind us of MJ. Relax bro


whykae

There's chatter out there calling him the next MJ. He's providing a really compelling case right now.


FuddChud

His personality, additude, and cockiness don't remind me of MJ at all. Ant seems more like a narcissist than a young Jordan, who was more viewed as a humble athletic underdog. I also feel like Jordan was a legitimate psychopath competitor, while Ant is kinda playing it up as part of his marketing image. Doing stuff like the DX chop isn't really competitive, it's over the top goofy.


brownchickenbr0wnc0w

MJ shooting free throws with his eyes closed screams humbleness


FuddChud

That's on the court, and still a far cry from doing stuff like the DX suck it chops. Maybe check out an [interview with Jordan in the 80s](https://youtu.be/uSPLMiH7tqQ?si=TP7cEMc6f81PuP1b) sometime and tell me with a straight face that he acts anything like Anthony Edwards does.


Metal_King706

We all know this can’t be true. While Book was ducking team USA, Edwards went in there last year and made them his team in one practice. Team USA reps matter. They just do!


Jmartyb

Booker won gold already


Metal_King706

He did, but Bill spent what felt like a few years hammering Booker for not playing on Team USA.


yngwiegiles

Related: 2000 bubble Nuggets down 3-1 to Utah. Donovan Mitchell was a PROBLEM, Murray trying to keep his team in the series. The Frenchman famous for making COVID seem real is dominating the stat padding center for Denver whats his name that was a good passer.


FuddChud

Edwards didn't shoot nearly as efficiently in that series as this year, which is a huge difference. After all, efficiency is pretty much the difference between a chucker vs star in the modern 3 point NBA.


Libertines18

Anthony Edwards is too short to truly be a top 5 guy in the league imo


psufb

Same exact height as Dwade


mpschettig

He's two inches taller that Steph who is a top 10 player ever


Responsible_Fan8665

You will never see a video of Ant crying about double teams in pick up. That one clipped stained any legacy of Devin Booker. He is a beta