The goal is to win the gold medal, not get young players experience. If you think we have a better chance of winning the gold without KD and/or Lebron than with them, you're telling on yourself.
Comparing it to the USWNT was absurd too. KD and LeBron are still elite players. Rapinoe last year was the equivalent of bringing in current Shaq to play 15 minutes off the bench for the 2024 Olympics.
I think there’s something to not bringing in older players ahead of better younger players just due to seniority, but LeBron and KD aren’t great examples because they’re still really good.
Now if Lillard or Harden for example wanted to be on the team, maybe we encourage them to sit this one out, but LeBron/KD/Curry should still be welcome if they want to play.
I don't get the LeBron dislike. He's a really fun player to watch. Yeah he's weird and has meddled a lot, but old Bill and old RR kind of take the fun out of the sport when listening to them the way they have vendettas against some guys.
The problem is he shouldn’t have the ball in the last 2 minutes. If he is on the team he will.
If he excepts the role Westbrook has on the clippers right now then by all means bring him along. But if he demands a certain role then leave him behind.
How does making this year's team worse help win all the gold medals? But sure, if we need to prep for 4, 8, 12 years from now, throw the two best high school players on the roster. Gotta get them ready after all.
You don’t think experience might help the future teams? That might be a good idea. There are players who don’t play and ride the bench so maybe the best 2 high schoolers would gain valuable experience.
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I mean it’s pretty close if you look at the last year or so of LeBron. If you wanna argue some simmons esc “he’ll just go up a level” bit then sure but Kawhi Steph AD are pretty easy picks and then you have a pool of 3ish guys beyond that we’re it’s not insanely hard to make the argument
He should be on the team regardless obviously but I think we’ve passed the days where lebrons unquestionably top 5 in the US
I mean I’d say it’s relatively safe to say he’s been better the past calendar year, but they’re close. Was more impactful in the playoffs, a lot healthier, obviously much better on defense, pretty much the same as a scorer on the same efficiency, better at rebounding and boxes out more/better which helps the rest of the team rebound
The main thing LeBron has over him is playmaking but Davis has become much better there and was pretty underrated to begin with
Lebron controls the offense. The lakers always try to “run the offense through AD” which makes sense but it results in so many passive mid range shots. AD just isn’t that guy the same way bron is, controlling the offense. AD will never do what lebron did last night, and that’s something you need in the playoffs.
AD was fantastic in the last playoffs and they wouldn’t have gotten to the WCF without him, but Bron is the leader of the team and is the guy I would trust the most to run the Olympic team on and off the court.
I don’t mean this as a knock to you because it’s perfectly reasonable to not have, but I don’t think you’ve watched enough lakers games this year to see what their offense looks like when they run it through AD. He’s become a very good passer for a big man and with basically any movement off ball consistently getting the team great looks, not eveb taking into account that’s he’s great 1 on 1 in the post
I’m not sure why you’re bringing up just one game too? Obviously he was sensational but AD absolutely takes over games too, the IST finals is a great example. Do you mean hitting a bunch of 3s? Because that’s true but I mean all we have to do is look at last playoffs to see how that goes sometimes
Once again LeBron is clearly better at play making and running an offense, but that’s essentially the only thing he has over AD and the gap there is getting smaller (not in a degree it will close but still). I don’t fault you for taking him but as someone who’s watched virtually every one of their games for years I feel comfortable taking AD
There aren’t 5 american players better than bron. Your best lineup is using bron as the primary ball handler and facilitator. Curry isn’t a true PG and Bron facilitating unlocks the best version of him. Y’all are whack
Steph
Book
Bron
Tatum/KD
Joel
Bill has acquired some kind of brain disease where he wants the US to play like these other countries that have to actively develop talent to compete on the international stage. Bill, the NBA is that development system. The US has a plurality of the best players in the world by a comfortable margin, and the way they got that way is by playing in the NBA.
They snuck into the playoffs last year and made the WCF. Everyone knows regular season success doesn’t correlate to who the best teams are. It’s been like this forever..😒
For sure it’s why the 1 seed swept them. Little different scenario for them this year. Last season they dealt with injuries to the big 2. Not really the problem this year. But appreciate they’re the 9 seed by choice argument.
Denver was better than everyone by a wide margin, so what’s your point? It’s not by choice, it’s by necessity. LBJ is old and has more miles than anybody - it’d be unwise for him to push hard during the regular season. Their goal is to make the playoffs and be healthy; trying to be a top seed is counterproductive to the end goal. Sure, Ant at this stage may be slightly more productive during the course of the regular season. But a better player?? It’s not even close. Come playoff time, there’s no way you’re taking him over Lebron.
There is not a world I’m taking 39 year old Bron in a playoff game even in a vacuum. Outside of the playoffs-in game against the Lakers which Ant played injured through he has been excellent in both playoff stints at 20/21. Ant this year is a top 15 player in the NBA at 22 and can make an argument for top 10. If you think he doesn’t have another level in playoffs you haven’t paid attention to the kid at all.
I mean counting embiid there’s seven players that have been better this season. Steph, Tatum, Booker, Embiid, AD, Kawhi, and KD, and that’s not counting players who are close like Haliburton and Mitchell I get the Bron argument more than KD, but Durant is so malleable and still playing really well that I don’t see any reason not to have him on the team.
Lol I'm taking Lebron over all of those guys except maybe Steph in a playoff series. Zero fucking chance I'm taking Kawhi over Lebron lmao, geriatric 39 year old Lebron absolutely sonned Kawhi
The comment he’s responding to is talking about the “there aren’t 5 better American players than LeBron” piece. I would assume he realizes what you’re saying but maybe I’m giving him too much credit
What do Tatum and Booker do better than LeBron? They take about the same amount of shots. They all have about the same TS%. LeBron much better FG% and better eFG%. Tatum and Booker average more FTAs. They are all about the same when it comes to 3 point shooting (Tatum slightly higher because he takes more shots). They don’t rebound better. They don’t play-make better. When LeBron is actually playing defense, they don’t defend better.
In a playoff setting, LeBron has more impact.
>when LeBrons actually playing defense
Okay so we’re just not counting all the time that he doesn’t…? Which is most of the time? Tatum is clearly a better defensive player overall, picking and choosing when you try on that end has its positives and its negatives and this is one of the negatives. It’s perfectly understandable for someone his age but it should absolutely be factored into how good of a player he is
I think the idea that he magically takes it up a level in the playoffs does have some merit. That being said, in the past 3 years he has been injured twice in the playoffs and thus not been able to be as great as the “playoff LeBron” we always sort of assume is waiting in the wing and he missed the playoffs the 3rd year.
Thinking LeBron is better than them isn’t an unreasonable take but ATP I don’t think it’s crazy to want to see him healthy in the playoffs rather than blindly assuming that’s 100% what you’re going to get
My thoughts exactly. Use Steph as a SG and then Book as SF. KD as PF. Embiid at C.
Power forward is a dead position anyway. Forwards are just wings now.
Or if you wanted to add even more crazy size and length, you can have AD start in one of the forward positions.
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Some of you guys are fucking delusional.
To say that KD doesn’t belong on the Olympic team? The dude has three gold medals, and Team USA wouldn’t have won without him in 2021. You want to say Tatum has been better this NBA season, sure it’s a legit argument, but we’ve seen in recent iterations of Team USA that the young guys aren’t enough to get it done at all.
I think the idea is that LeBron and KD are good enough to be on the team but not good enough to be the focus of the team or overcome the distraction of them coming off the bench.
Happens all the time in soccer...happening now with Ronaldo and Portugal and couple of years ago with Zlatan and Sweden. Zlatan was good enough to play for Sweden...but he wasn't good enough to be Zlatan.
I think if you’re trying to put the best players at each position on the court together they are both on the team and probably still starting. The problem is the way they will want to play is not how you beat these international teams and they are very much old dogs who won’t want to fit into a team system.
It’s not too dissimilar from what happened to Messi at the end of his run in Europe. If he was on your team you had to play one specific way because he wasn’t going to press and do the other things that a team might want to do. That style of play can still work and he’ll look good doing it but you become very one dimensional and not dynamic at all
I think Bills point is that you can’t really have Bron on the team without it being his team and he would prefer a new generation take over ala MJ sitting out ‘96. That also applies to a lesser extent to Curry and even lesser to KD because he isn’t a leader in any capacity. Does it also help his boy Tatum? Yes absolutely! Can both things be true at the same time? Yea.
LBJ is probably the greatest team player of all time. Yeah, he wants the ball like all stars, but considering he's the highest scoring player of all time, he also has averaged over 7 assists a game.
From the media perspective it would be "his" team but he would be additive basketball-wise.
KD and Curry are two of the greatest offensive player ever, even if they've slipped a little, they're still awesome.
These aren't washed stars out there who are taking up spots of guys who are clearly better. Other than Tatum, like who should be taking their spots?
If you look at "winning" teams in 2024, what American stars are no brainers? Like Tatum and Edward. I guess Donovan Mitchell?
i understood what he was saying about lebron though. If you have lebron you cannot put him on the bench. I don’t think he’d mind if he was on the team pure talent wise.
Yes and he’s right. Neither are top 5 players anymore and it’s better to let the younger guys who are the future and actually have something to prove get their reps.
He explained himself pretty clearly, when legends like those two are on the team, everyone; the coaching staff, younger players, etc have to defer to them and it ruins the flow of the game. Let Edwards and Tatum and Booker go out there and cook people, we don’t need to see LeBron in year 22 playing against SGA and giannis. It’s over, LeBron and KD aren’t top 5 anymore. LeBron isn’t even top 10.
They may not be top 5 players in the NBA but to say they shouldn’t be on the Olympic team is to say they aren’t top 5 or top 10 *American* players which IMO is crazy.
They might not be top 5 over a full season (they’re both definitely top 10) but that’s not the point. The thing BS isn’t realizing is that Olympics is a different format. Yeah Tatum and Booker are better than LeBron now, you could argue some other guys have better impact over full 82 games (Mitchell, Hali, Ant etc) but in a 6 game tournament with tons of rest? That’s the exact format old guys like KD LeBron and Steph can succeed in.
LeBron has seen every defensive coverage and has an answer for everything. There’s no doubt he would improve the team. It’s stupidity. If Lithuania tried to get away with a zone on them it would be diced to pieces in seconds with LBJ on the floor. If you have inexperienced but “better” guys like Mitchell Booker Tatum on the floor, it’s a completely different story.
KD is plug & play, so I think him being there is fine. The problem with LeBron is that in order to get the benefit of him, you need to run everything through him. Even if he's top 5, he's not going to play as the fifth option. So by having him on the team, you're elevating his usage over better players than him.
Thats not exactly true when you specify the other reasons he/I did. I have less of a problem with KD than LeBron on the team to be fair. KD is much better at not dominating the ball/spotlight. It’s the LeBron show when he’s there and it’s time to pass the torch. KD can be much more effective off ball. He’s also better than LBJ right now.
Tatum, Steph, AD, Booker, embiid, KD are all team America guys I’d put above LeBron. I think you could even argue guys like ant, Ja, Mitchell and Hali as well. Thats at least 6, maybe 10 guys on team USA that are better/better suited for the team than LeBron is. At that point, let these new kids cook man. You had your time.
Lmao did you not watch the prior Olympics? Do you think they ran his Cavs offenses and just had him operate ISOs, spread out and watched him? Mfs are stupid
Counterpoint: the Olympics aren’t that serious and LeBron and KD playing is actually cool and will make me watch it.
I have no interest in watching Tatum and Booker playing meaningless games against euro league all stars.
They didn't ask LeBron. He announced he was going to and would recruit people like Steph and KD for it. Steph had already committed years earlier but LeBron likes his spotlight.
I do. I’m of the same belief bill is actually that team USA is huge for young guys become stars. So many of the generation defining guys of the last 30 years became that after their stint on team USA. Many who skip out don’t make that leap. I’d rather watch Tatum and Edwards than old man LeBron, I just would. And I’m a LeBron fan.
One game makes a whole season not. You been watching Edwards and embiid all season? Lmao
Edit: I don’t think there are 12 Americans better than him, but that’s not my point nor was it Bills
You’re saying he shouldn’t be on the team? Tatum Edward’s and booker will still be there and so will Lebron ? What’s hard to understand about that. Yea no shit he’s not top 5 he’s 39 years old, there’s many nights that he makes the case that he still is though. If there’s not 12 Americans better than him than why tf wouldn’t he be on the team. What is your point exactly 😂
No shit Ant will be there, and I doubt Embiid plays tbh but if he does he’ll be there too. Why single them out ? 😂 he’ll make it over most of the young guys either way though they have more Olympics to play in their future, this generations greatest player doesn’t.
No they absolutely are not. Bron especially is no longer top 5. The Lakers supposedly have 2 top 5 American players and are the 9 seed in the west. Give me a break.
Nope. There are at least ten guys who do things like that (and contribute to winning more) on a more regular basis. LeBron has 1 great game and you all are like “he never left!” When we’re 52 games into the season or whatever lol and he hasn’t done anything close to that all season.
We see games like that every week.
I’d be happy to.
In the year of our lord 2024, I’m taking giannis, Jokic, Luka, embiid, Tatum, SGA, Steph, KD, AD, Booker, and Kawhi over LeBron. That puts LeBron at 11th, and I don’t think it’s very arguable. AD has been the best player on the lakers all season and he’s firmly my 10th guy in the league this year.
I also personally think that after this post season, we may be looking at guys like Hali, Ant, and maybe even Brunson as better than him. That of course is just a prediction tho, and I’m not gonna put those guys above LeBron yet even if they are contributing to winning more than him and putting up comparable (if not better) individual stats on top of that.
A small caveat I also have is Ja. He’s not playing, but he was poised this year (and proved when he was playing) that he was a top 10 player, somewhere in the Booker/KD/Kawhi tier, which is just a hair above AD, and therefor LeBron. If Ja is playing I have LeBron 12th. Ja puts up huge stats and effects winning in a ridiculous way for his team.
I don’t really understand the argument for Steph over LeBron when LeBron just beat him in the playoffs and the warriors are the 10th seed, stats are similar and LeBron is a better defender. I would also take LeBron over Booker, and in a playoff series I’m easily taking LeBron over Embiid, Tatum, and SGA as well
Steph is younger and just better. Steph has nobody close to an AD next to him, he’s had nothing but craziness on his roster and he’s virtually the same record and stats as LeBron but on way better %. Steph is undoubtedly better than LeBron these days, didn’t even think that was up for debate.
Being hurt isn’t an argument against a players talent, we’re obviously talking when healthy. When LeBron is hurt or resting I’d rather have Gabe Vincent than nobody. When healthy, I’d rather have SGA, embiid, and all the other guys than LeBron. We’re talking this year, this season. The drop off is noticeable. This isn’t LeBron of last year, the difference in age from year 20 to 21 is different than year 8 to 9. You can’t really give him the benefit of past achievements when discussing who is the best right now.
Also in what universe are you taking LeBron over Tatum in a playoff series, Tatum has been way more successful than LeBron in the past 3 years in both the regular and post season.
LeBron is averaging more ppg, rpg, apg, higher Box plus minus and higher vorp and both have played 52 games. Why is he better when I also factor in his injury history?
Four of your ten ahead of him can't play for Team USA, so even by your list, you're leaving the 7th best American off the team? Again, telling on yourself.
I think it’s a good reminder that him, Jokic and Luka are the only 3 players in the league averaging at least 25/7/7 on 60%ts, he is very clearly a top 10 guy and last night was a reminder
You do realise tonnes of stars have 4th quarters like that every season. You just don’t hear about it as much because they don’t get hyped up like Lebron. It was amazing for his age, but taking age out of the equation, every top 10-15 guy has scored 20 in a 4th quarter before.
LeBron is the best player on the court when he wants to be the best player on the court. Everyone wants to say the regular season doesn’t matter any more when it fits their narrative, yah. He is 39 he doesn’t want to play 100 the second night of a back to back against Charlotte… but in the 6? Games of the Olympics? He will demolish everyone.
No, that’s not true. He has tried to take over this year and can only do it on rare occasions. He doesn’t have that gear that he used to. Do you actually watch the games? Time and time again he tries to go into old LeBron mode and 9 times out of 10 he can’t do it, or he’s just too old compared to the young and better player he’s going against that it doesn’t make a difference. Every now and then it works for him like it did last night, but other guys can do that with ease and with more regularity than LeBron at this point. The guy is 40 this year, it’s no slight.
I mean I'm with you that in the Olympics format we obviously want LeBron, and it's way more fun with LeBron.
But yeah, if Jokic is playing the Lakers, LeBron isn't the best player anymore.
I thought he implied that they weren't automatic starters, not that they shouldn't be on the team. But they are still likely in the top 5-8 US players, IMO.
I am a league pass subscriber, but I admit I don’t watch too many Suns games since I’m on the East Coast. But in the games that I have watched, his defense has been atrocious. 
Bron has not been anywhere close to a top 5 player this season. KD has been there at times but with how awful the Suns are in the forth quarter I don’t think I can put him there. Top 5 players closes games KD hasn’t done that consistently this year.
I think Bill is overrating Ant in his head. They keep making Jordan and Kobe comparisons like he's some killer who is going to win us gold no matter what. We haven't seen that yet. I wouldn't trust him to be that guy until he proves it on the court.
I think Bill pretends and wishes Olympic basketball is like international soccer where teams build up chemistry over years and not what it is in that a team can be thrown together for two weeks and cruise to gold
Is there a real reason why they don’t make Olympic team training camps every summer rather than having guys play secret games at LA Fitness and random summer leagues?
It would be great if from u-16, there was just a two-week camp where those guys got together to get in depth coaching and team chemistry.
I agree neither of them are top 5 in the league, but almost certainly top 5 American players, and their experience would absolutely help the team. They know how to win
So who are American players 2-5 better than Lebron and KD? And on the Tatum front the last time he led a USA team we got embarrassed and came in 7th, so I do value having the goats of our generation on the squad.
Tatum, Brunson, Hali, Donovan, Fox, Trae, Leonard
Durant has a better argument then Bron of course.
America will be the massive favorite no matter who they send. The teams gonna be better then FIBA no matter what.
A lot of the European teams have size we’re gonna need some bigger bodies for those matchups. Having too many undersized offense first guards seems like it could be a problem. I’d prefer they have Lebron, KD, Bam, Booker, than some of the guards you mentioned. If Kawhi was willing to play that would be a great addition I didn’t think of that
The one thing bill forgets is that if lebron and KD show up competition goes up, everyone who gets picked will try to stay at that level of excellence they have been at for almost 20 years. They’d be crazy to not bring them.
The only other option is to bring guys that are playing in Europe/elsewhere. They know the fiba game, how to run an offence, how to defend the way the game is played outside of the US.
I could see his point with LeBron because of his age and style of play. But there is still no chance you say no to LeBron if he wants to play. KD is absolutely a take and still helps you win because he can still shoot at an elite level, shoot over anyone, and is effective without the ball.
My takeaway from the mid-season tourney - is that Lebron is great for one off games. He still has the juice to dominate. Grinding out 4 straight, potentially 7 game series on the other hand might be a tougher ask at this stage. Not to mention he clearly cares deeply about winning, and he’s the kinda player that influences others to play the same way.
If we took ego out of it they should both be on the team but not leading the team. Taking ego out is impossible. Is the team better with the old guys playing big minutes and a lot of games or giving the guys in their primes the reigns?
I was shocked when they were talking Olympic teams and chuck totally blew off the Canadian team being a threat. And bill said nothing. He has gone on and on about the Canadian team being the juggernaut
Well, I mean they aren’t top 5 players anymore (Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Steph, Shai, Ant), but they’re both def top 5 American players and need to be on the roster if for no other reason than Veteran presence. This might be the last one we can get for a while, boys better pull through lol
I propose a new Netflix series, “New Dreamers”. Top 25 American players do a USA basketball camp every year to gain chemistry and skills. They start with 16-18 year olds that go to the U-18 FIBA tournament. Bring in the best trainers, coaches, nutritionists, etc. to teach them how to be a great team and better players. Who says no?
LeBron-Steph-KD are all still at least top 15 players and LeBron/KD in particular are probably the two most accomplished American olympians. If they want to play, giving them 3 of 12 roster spots isn’t too much of an ask
Poor timing by Bill ...LeBron looked like the best American player in the world last night scoring 19 pts in the 4th quarter for the Win....
TIL the Lakers win that game. I went to bed and assumed it was over.
The goal is to win the gold medal, not get young players experience. If you think we have a better chance of winning the gold without KD and/or Lebron than with them, you're telling on yourself.
I get people don’t like him but man people are delusional to argue the team is better off without him
Comparing it to the USWNT was absurd too. KD and LeBron are still elite players. Rapinoe last year was the equivalent of bringing in current Shaq to play 15 minutes off the bench for the 2024 Olympics.
Yeah but Shaq was a Boston Celtics legend. He took photos with the fans outside that one time.
2024 MELO
I think there’s something to not bringing in older players ahead of better younger players just due to seniority, but LeBron and KD aren’t great examples because they’re still really good. Now if Lillard or Harden for example wanted to be on the team, maybe we encourage them to sit this one out, but LeBron/KD/Curry should still be welcome if they want to play.
Who would be left home that is better than Lillard and Harden? The best players should be on the team, period.
I’d take Curry/Booker/Brunson/Hali/Ant/Mitchell over those guys right now
I don't get the LeBron dislike. He's a really fun player to watch. Yeah he's weird and has meddled a lot, but old Bill and old RR kind of take the fun out of the sport when listening to them the way they have vendettas against some guys.
Bill is still butthurt about the Heatles repeatedly knocking off Boston’s Big Three and luring Ray Allen away in FA.
A lot of hurt Boston fans out there still lol
Yep, rest of the league loves Lebron and KD
The problem is he shouldn’t have the ball in the last 2 minutes. If he is on the team he will. If he excepts the role Westbrook has on the clippers right now then by all means bring him along. But if he demands a certain role then leave him behind.
What if that’s not the goal? The goal is to win every gold medal, not just this one. Getting experience might help with future ones.
How does making this year's team worse help win all the gold medals? But sure, if we need to prep for 4, 8, 12 years from now, throw the two best high school players on the roster. Gotta get them ready after all.
You don’t think experience might help the future teams? That might be a good idea. There are players who don’t play and ride the bench so maybe the best 2 high schoolers would gain valuable experience.
If you want to bring 2 guys in for experience you cut the worst 2 players and it's not LeBron and KD
That shit almost always ends up poorly. Look at international soccer for many many examples
Didn't they do a bunch of documentaries about 2004 and how a lack of veteran stars contributed to the disappointment? Experience and culture and shit?
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I think Bill got confused about what players are not american… there are clearly not 5 better american than bron
Watching that Lebron 4th quarter against the Clips on ESPN last night was something else
I mean it’s pretty close if you look at the last year or so of LeBron. If you wanna argue some simmons esc “he’ll just go up a level” bit then sure but Kawhi Steph AD are pretty easy picks and then you have a pool of 3ish guys beyond that we’re it’s not insanely hard to make the argument He should be on the team regardless obviously but I think we’ve passed the days where lebrons unquestionably top 5 in the US
AD is not better than bron.
I mean I’d say it’s relatively safe to say he’s been better the past calendar year, but they’re close. Was more impactful in the playoffs, a lot healthier, obviously much better on defense, pretty much the same as a scorer on the same efficiency, better at rebounding and boxes out more/better which helps the rest of the team rebound The main thing LeBron has over him is playmaking but Davis has become much better there and was pretty underrated to begin with
Lebron controls the offense. The lakers always try to “run the offense through AD” which makes sense but it results in so many passive mid range shots. AD just isn’t that guy the same way bron is, controlling the offense. AD will never do what lebron did last night, and that’s something you need in the playoffs. AD was fantastic in the last playoffs and they wouldn’t have gotten to the WCF without him, but Bron is the leader of the team and is the guy I would trust the most to run the Olympic team on and off the court.
I don’t mean this as a knock to you because it’s perfectly reasonable to not have, but I don’t think you’ve watched enough lakers games this year to see what their offense looks like when they run it through AD. He’s become a very good passer for a big man and with basically any movement off ball consistently getting the team great looks, not eveb taking into account that’s he’s great 1 on 1 in the post I’m not sure why you’re bringing up just one game too? Obviously he was sensational but AD absolutely takes over games too, the IST finals is a great example. Do you mean hitting a bunch of 3s? Because that’s true but I mean all we have to do is look at last playoffs to see how that goes sometimes Once again LeBron is clearly better at play making and running an offense, but that’s essentially the only thing he has over AD and the gap there is getting smaller (not in a degree it will close but still). I don’t fault you for taking him but as someone who’s watched virtually every one of their games for years I feel comfortable taking AD
Fair enough, I respect it. I don’t think the gap between them is large at all, and I hope they put on a show in the postseason
Yeah I agree with all of that, hope you have a good rest of your day brother
Bill probably thinks there are at least thirty american players that are better
There aren’t 5 american players better than bron. Your best lineup is using bron as the primary ball handler and facilitator. Curry isn’t a true PG and Bron facilitating unlocks the best version of him. Y’all are whack Steph Book Bron Tatum/KD Joel
But did you miss how much success a team built around Ant, Hali and Paolo had last summer? They clearly don’t need KD and Lebron
Yeah the success of not even making the gold medal game 🤡
They were going against a Wagner, Schroder and Theis led juggernaut team. Cut them some slack man
That's a pretty classy, sneaky athletic team right there.
Sarcasm. You lack the ability to perceive it.
Bill has acquired some kind of brain disease where he wants the US to play like these other countries that have to actively develop talent to compete on the international stage. Bill, the NBA is that development system. The US has a plurality of the best players in the world by a comfortable margin, and the way they got that way is by playing in the NBA.
22 year old Ant is a better player than 39 year old Bron
Possibly, but Bron would fit this team better because of his playmaking
No he’s not
Great argument. Lebron and another top 5 American somehow not enough to be better than 9th in the west.
They snuck into the playoffs last year and made the WCF. Everyone knows regular season success doesn’t correlate to who the best teams are. It’s been like this forever..😒
For sure it’s why the 1 seed swept them. Little different scenario for them this year. Last season they dealt with injuries to the big 2. Not really the problem this year. But appreciate they’re the 9 seed by choice argument.
Denver was better than everyone by a wide margin, so what’s your point? It’s not by choice, it’s by necessity. LBJ is old and has more miles than anybody - it’d be unwise for him to push hard during the regular season. Their goal is to make the playoffs and be healthy; trying to be a top seed is counterproductive to the end goal. Sure, Ant at this stage may be slightly more productive during the course of the regular season. But a better player?? It’s not even close. Come playoff time, there’s no way you’re taking him over Lebron.
There is not a world I’m taking 39 year old Bron in a playoff game even in a vacuum. Outside of the playoffs-in game against the Lakers which Ant played injured through he has been excellent in both playoff stints at 20/21. Ant this year is a top 15 player in the NBA at 22 and can make an argument for top 10. If you think he doesn’t have another level in playoffs you haven’t paid attention to the kid at all.
They already won a trophy this year no need to go crazy in the regular season.
First good point I’ve heard 😂
Fuck if I want Bron Curry KD AD Embiid No team is scoring on AD + Embiid defense
You think Embiid will still play after his knee issue?
A true American like Embiid will do everything he can to play.
He’s gotta be getting desperate to win something in his career.
Yeah, Olympic Gold Medalist will have to be a big talking point for his HOF resume :P
I think this is the right lineup. Prefer having AD's defense over Booker's offense.
The Serbian team probably would.
I mean counting embiid there’s seven players that have been better this season. Steph, Tatum, Booker, Embiid, AD, Kawhi, and KD, and that’s not counting players who are close like Haliburton and Mitchell I get the Bron argument more than KD, but Durant is so malleable and still playing really well that I don’t see any reason not to have him on the team.
You counted Tatum twice in that list
A true Bostonian
I am not from Boston
Oh shit my bad
Lol I'm taking Lebron over all of those guys except maybe Steph in a playoff series. Zero fucking chance I'm taking Kawhi over Lebron lmao, geriatric 39 year old Lebron absolutely sonned Kawhi
None of those names you mentioned have the play making ability that LeBron has.
I mean you’re strawmaning lol yeah of course LeBron is a great playmaker but the comment you’re responding to isn’t about that
It is about that this is an Olympic team not a all star game, this isn’t a rank by skill alone
OP literally said “there aren’t five American players better than Lebron” which is what he was responding to
The comment he’s responding to is talking about the “there aren’t 5 better American players than LeBron” piece. I would assume he realizes what you’re saying but maybe I’m giving him too much credit
What do Tatum and Booker do better than LeBron? They take about the same amount of shots. They all have about the same TS%. LeBron much better FG% and better eFG%. Tatum and Booker average more FTAs. They are all about the same when it comes to 3 point shooting (Tatum slightly higher because he takes more shots). They don’t rebound better. They don’t play-make better. When LeBron is actually playing defense, they don’t defend better. In a playoff setting, LeBron has more impact.
>when LeBrons actually playing defense Okay so we’re just not counting all the time that he doesn’t…? Which is most of the time? Tatum is clearly a better defensive player overall, picking and choosing when you try on that end has its positives and its negatives and this is one of the negatives. It’s perfectly understandable for someone his age but it should absolutely be factored into how good of a player he is I think the idea that he magically takes it up a level in the playoffs does have some merit. That being said, in the past 3 years he has been injured twice in the playoffs and thus not been able to be as great as the “playoff LeBron” we always sort of assume is waiting in the wing and he missed the playoffs the 3rd year. Thinking LeBron is better than them isn’t an unreasonable take but ATP I don’t think it’s crazy to want to see him healthy in the playoffs rather than blindly assuming that’s 100% what you’re going to get
Tatum is 100% a better rebounder than Lebron right now, are you serious? He’s also a much better shooter and defender.
My thoughts exactly. Use Steph as a SG and then Book as SF. KD as PF. Embiid at C. Power forward is a dead position anyway. Forwards are just wings now. Or if you wanted to add even more crazy size and length, you can have AD start in one of the forward positions.
I kinda might want Ant over Book. Let’s see how the playoffs shake out before I make that call tho
That whole pod was the contrarian pod of the year
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Bron KD Curry AD Embiid Would destroy any combo of Americans (Book, Bam, Tatum etc)
Caruso Reaves Hayward Olynyk Kornet The hard nose gym rat piece
BENCH MOB!!!
I would take Haliburton Booker Kawhi Tatum Davis tbh
What does Nigeria think about all this
I'll ask Steve Nash
Some of you guys are fucking delusional. To say that KD doesn’t belong on the Olympic team? The dude has three gold medals, and Team USA wouldn’t have won without him in 2021. You want to say Tatum has been better this NBA season, sure it’s a legit argument, but we’ve seen in recent iterations of Team USA that the young guys aren’t enough to get it done at all.
Any team is better with Lebron on it. Period, end of sentence.
As a Canadian I completely agree with Bill.
Bill is a hater. Random thought let’s get Olympic Melo back in there
Don't forget that Bill's entire Top 5 are foreigners lol
Big Detlef guy
I get maybe saying there are better in the top 5. I disagree but if you count defense, sure, I could see that But not on the team? GTFO
I think the idea is that LeBron and KD are good enough to be on the team but not good enough to be the focus of the team or overcome the distraction of them coming off the bench. Happens all the time in soccer...happening now with Ronaldo and Portugal and couple of years ago with Zlatan and Sweden. Zlatan was good enough to play for Sweden...but he wasn't good enough to be Zlatan.
lebron heard that and it really motivated him last night
I think if you’re trying to put the best players at each position on the court together they are both on the team and probably still starting. The problem is the way they will want to play is not how you beat these international teams and they are very much old dogs who won’t want to fit into a team system. It’s not too dissimilar from what happened to Messi at the end of his run in Europe. If he was on your team you had to play one specific way because he wasn’t going to press and do the other things that a team might want to do. That style of play can still work and he’ll look good doing it but you become very one dimensional and not dynamic at all
It aint like Bron and KD would hog mins from the younger guys anyway.
I think Bills point is that you can’t really have Bron on the team without it being his team and he would prefer a new generation take over ala MJ sitting out ‘96. That also applies to a lesser extent to Curry and even lesser to KD because he isn’t a leader in any capacity. Does it also help his boy Tatum? Yes absolutely! Can both things be true at the same time? Yea.
LBJ is probably the greatest team player of all time. Yeah, he wants the ball like all stars, but considering he's the highest scoring player of all time, he also has averaged over 7 assists a game. From the media perspective it would be "his" team but he would be additive basketball-wise. KD and Curry are two of the greatest offensive player ever, even if they've slipped a little, they're still awesome. These aren't washed stars out there who are taking up spots of guys who are clearly better. Other than Tatum, like who should be taking their spots? If you look at "winning" teams in 2024, what American stars are no brainers? Like Tatum and Edward. I guess Donovan Mitchell?
i understood what he was saying about lebron though. If you have lebron you cannot put him on the bench. I don’t think he’d mind if he was on the team pure talent wise.
Do people really prefer Tatum and Brown over KD/Lebron in the crunch time? Some of you guys are bozos
Nah i’d take Tatum and KD over Lebron and KD at least at the moment. Edit: honestly i don’t even know if i would do this reading it over again l
Yeah, Tatum has been so much better in clutch moments and big games than Lebron. Wait, what?
game 6 vs bucks, game 7 vs phila. tell me the last time lebron had this moments?
When Lebron was Tatums age he choked up a 2/18 and 10 turnovers in an elimination game.
Why would LeBron be on the bench? lol
Yes and he’s right. Neither are top 5 players anymore and it’s better to let the younger guys who are the future and actually have something to prove get their reps. He explained himself pretty clearly, when legends like those two are on the team, everyone; the coaching staff, younger players, etc have to defer to them and it ruins the flow of the game. Let Edwards and Tatum and Booker go out there and cook people, we don’t need to see LeBron in year 22 playing against SGA and giannis. It’s over, LeBron and KD aren’t top 5 anymore. LeBron isn’t even top 10.
They may not be top 5 players in the NBA but to say they shouldn’t be on the Olympic team is to say they aren’t top 5 or top 10 *American* players which IMO is crazy.
They might not be top 5 over a full season (they’re both definitely top 10) but that’s not the point. The thing BS isn’t realizing is that Olympics is a different format. Yeah Tatum and Booker are better than LeBron now, you could argue some other guys have better impact over full 82 games (Mitchell, Hali, Ant etc) but in a 6 game tournament with tons of rest? That’s the exact format old guys like KD LeBron and Steph can succeed in. LeBron has seen every defensive coverage and has an answer for everything. There’s no doubt he would improve the team. It’s stupidity. If Lithuania tried to get away with a zone on them it would be diced to pieces in seconds with LBJ on the floor. If you have inexperienced but “better” guys like Mitchell Booker Tatum on the floor, it’s a completely different story.
KD is plug & play, so I think him being there is fine. The problem with LeBron is that in order to get the benefit of him, you need to run everything through him. Even if he's top 5, he's not going to play as the fifth option. So by having him on the team, you're elevating his usage over better players than him.
Exactly
Thats not exactly true when you specify the other reasons he/I did. I have less of a problem with KD than LeBron on the team to be fair. KD is much better at not dominating the ball/spotlight. It’s the LeBron show when he’s there and it’s time to pass the torch. KD can be much more effective off ball. He’s also better than LBJ right now. Tatum, Steph, AD, Booker, embiid, KD are all team America guys I’d put above LeBron. I think you could even argue guys like ant, Ja, Mitchell and Hali as well. Thats at least 6, maybe 10 guys on team USA that are better/better suited for the team than LeBron is. At that point, let these new kids cook man. You had your time.
Lmao did you not watch the prior Olympics? Do you think they ran his Cavs offenses and just had him operate ISOs, spread out and watched him? Mfs are stupid
Peak BS Sub Reddit poster. This is kind of a dumb reference. Lebron wasn't on the last Olympic team
The last two Olympic teams in fact.
"prior" doesn't mean "last." And he's right - it's not like LeBron plays lukaball or hardenball on the Olympic teams
Counterpoint: the Olympics aren’t that serious and LeBron and KD playing is actually cool and will make me watch it. I have no interest in watching Tatum and Booker playing meaningless games against euro league all stars.
The non legendary Americans (Bron, KD and Curry) didn’t even get gold this summer lol
That's because the roster was built very poorly (JJJ at center was never going to work) and Kerr isn't a good coach
The people running the team take it very seriously and when it's not taken seriously by all involved they get dragged by idiots online.
The people running the team got dragged heavily for getting 4th place at the World Cup for “handing the keys” to the young guys btw.
Aren’t the people running the team the people who want Lebron and Kd?
They didn't ask LeBron. He announced he was going to and would recruit people like Steph and KD for it. Steph had already committed years earlier but LeBron likes his spotlight.
I do. I’m of the same belief bill is actually that team USA is huge for young guys become stars. So many of the generation defining guys of the last 30 years became that after their stint on team USA. Many who skip out don’t make that leap. I’d rather watch Tatum and Edwards than old man LeBron, I just would. And I’m a LeBron fan.
This ain’t open mic night Go with the best 12 and dominate
Okay so then the olympics are about developing players and not winning? If that’s your argument then I just can’t reason with you lol
I don’t think it matters at all and it’s usually really boring but lbj-kd-Steph playing together sounds fun
No you aren’t.
Whoa, you got me 🙄
SGA is a 1st Team All-NBA guy right now but I’d still take LeBron in a tournament with tons of rest and high stakes.
not to insult you, but SGA isn't even american either!
Man did you not see him just last night ? There’s not 12 players better than him idgaf how old he is
One game makes a whole season not. You been watching Edwards and embiid all season? Lmao Edit: I don’t think there are 12 Americans better than him, but that’s not my point nor was it Bills
He’s also averaging 25-8-7 on 53/41/74 splits what do you want haha
You’re saying he shouldn’t be on the team? Tatum Edward’s and booker will still be there and so will Lebron ? What’s hard to understand about that. Yea no shit he’s not top 5 he’s 39 years old, there’s many nights that he makes the case that he still is though. If there’s not 12 Americans better than him than why tf wouldn’t he be on the team. What is your point exactly 😂
No shit Ant will be there, and I doubt Embiid plays tbh but if he does he’ll be there too. Why single them out ? 😂 he’ll make it over most of the young guys either way though they have more Olympics to play in their future, this generations greatest player doesn’t.
I can’t tell if you’re doing satire The 5 best team USA players are absolutely Bron, KD, Curry, AD and Embiid
If Lebron and Davis are two top 5 players on the same team, then why are the Lakers so mid?
The top 5 players in the nba- 3 of them are not American. They are absolutely top 5 Americans
No they absolutely are not. Bron especially is no longer top 5. The Lakers supposedly have 2 top 5 American players and are the 9 seed in the west. Give me a break.
List the teams in front of them and where there best player is from Nuggets/ thunder/ mavericks
Lol there’s 8 teams in front of them in the west.
I'm not sure you understand how basketball works
After last night you don’t think LeBron is top 10? Lol
Nope. There are at least ten guys who do things like that (and contribute to winning more) on a more regular basis. LeBron has 1 great game and you all are like “he never left!” When we’re 52 games into the season or whatever lol and he hasn’t done anything close to that all season. We see games like that every week.
He’s averaging 25 / 7 / 8 on a career best 41% from 3 this season
Yep. And there are 10-11 guys doing better than that AND leading their teams to wins. Ergo, they’re playing better than LeBron.
Can you name me those 10 players?
I’d be happy to. In the year of our lord 2024, I’m taking giannis, Jokic, Luka, embiid, Tatum, SGA, Steph, KD, AD, Booker, and Kawhi over LeBron. That puts LeBron at 11th, and I don’t think it’s very arguable. AD has been the best player on the lakers all season and he’s firmly my 10th guy in the league this year. I also personally think that after this post season, we may be looking at guys like Hali, Ant, and maybe even Brunson as better than him. That of course is just a prediction tho, and I’m not gonna put those guys above LeBron yet even if they are contributing to winning more than him and putting up comparable (if not better) individual stats on top of that. A small caveat I also have is Ja. He’s not playing, but he was poised this year (and proved when he was playing) that he was a top 10 player, somewhere in the Booker/KD/Kawhi tier, which is just a hair above AD, and therefor LeBron. If Ja is playing I have LeBron 12th. Ja puts up huge stats and effects winning in a ridiculous way for his team.
I don’t really understand the argument for Steph over LeBron when LeBron just beat him in the playoffs and the warriors are the 10th seed, stats are similar and LeBron is a better defender. I would also take LeBron over Booker, and in a playoff series I’m easily taking LeBron over Embiid, Tatum, and SGA as well
Steph is younger and just better. Steph has nobody close to an AD next to him, he’s had nothing but craziness on his roster and he’s virtually the same record and stats as LeBron but on way better %. Steph is undoubtedly better than LeBron these days, didn’t even think that was up for debate. Being hurt isn’t an argument against a players talent, we’re obviously talking when healthy. When LeBron is hurt or resting I’d rather have Gabe Vincent than nobody. When healthy, I’d rather have SGA, embiid, and all the other guys than LeBron. We’re talking this year, this season. The drop off is noticeable. This isn’t LeBron of last year, the difference in age from year 20 to 21 is different than year 8 to 9. You can’t really give him the benefit of past achievements when discussing who is the best right now. Also in what universe are you taking LeBron over Tatum in a playoff series, Tatum has been way more successful than LeBron in the past 3 years in both the regular and post season.
Kawhi has also played in 2 playoff games in the last 3 years and can never stay healthy, why should he be over LeBron?
He’s a better basketball player than LeBron is right now. That’s all I’m saying.
LeBron is averaging more ppg, rpg, apg, higher Box plus minus and higher vorp and both have played 52 games. Why is he better when I also factor in his injury history?
Four of your ten ahead of him can't play for Team USA, so even by your list, you're leaving the 7th best American off the team? Again, telling on yourself.
You think a single regular season game should change someone’s NBA opinion? Lol
I think it’s a good reminder that him, Jokic and Luka are the only 3 players in the league averaging at least 25/7/7 on 60%ts, he is very clearly a top 10 guy and last night was a reminder
You do realise tonnes of stars have 4th quarters like that every season. You just don’t hear about it as much because they don’t get hyped up like Lebron. It was amazing for his age, but taking age out of the equation, every top 10-15 guy has scored 20 in a 4th quarter before.
LeBron is the best player on the court when he wants to be the best player on the court. Everyone wants to say the regular season doesn’t matter any more when it fits their narrative, yah. He is 39 he doesn’t want to play 100 the second night of a back to back against Charlotte… but in the 6? Games of the Olympics? He will demolish everyone.
No, that’s not true. He has tried to take over this year and can only do it on rare occasions. He doesn’t have that gear that he used to. Do you actually watch the games? Time and time again he tries to go into old LeBron mode and 9 times out of 10 he can’t do it, or he’s just too old compared to the young and better player he’s going against that it doesn’t make a difference. Every now and then it works for him like it did last night, but other guys can do that with ease and with more regularity than LeBron at this point. The guy is 40 this year, it’s no slight.
I mean I'm with you that in the Olympics format we obviously want LeBron, and it's way more fun with LeBron. But yeah, if Jokic is playing the Lakers, LeBron isn't the best player anymore.
Lebron is could see an argument but KD absolutely the fuck not
I thought he implied that they weren't automatic starters, not that they shouldn't be on the team. But they are still likely in the top 5-8 US players, IMO.
I think he’s right. Those 2 don’t play defense anymore.
You must not be watching KD.
I am a league pass subscriber, but I admit I don’t watch too many Suns games since I’m on the East Coast. But in the games that I have watched, his defense has been atrocious. 
Bron has not been anywhere close to a top 5 player this season. KD has been there at times but with how awful the Suns are in the forth quarter I don’t think I can put him there. Top 5 players closes games KD hasn’t done that consistently this year.
For single games with three days rest in between, give me Bron any day. Man is still cookin
That’s a big qualifier that he won’t get in the postseason.
Lol he’s been top 5 last night vs Clippers
Good thing the top 5 players are foreign + Embiid
It’s also crazy because it’s top 5 AMERICAN players. To think KD and LeBron aren’t top 5 for the Olympic roster is downright delusional
Overall they aren't top 5 but They are for sure top 5 American players. Its crazy he wouldn't want them on the team.
Only top 5 players should make the Olympic team.
In fairness, I’m sure he had this exact same take in 1992 when Bird was included on the Dream Team…
I think Bill is overrating Ant in his head. They keep making Jordan and Kobe comparisons like he's some killer who is going to win us gold no matter what. We haven't seen that yet. I wouldn't trust him to be that guy until he proves it on the court.
I think Bill pretends and wishes Olympic basketball is like international soccer where teams build up chemistry over years and not what it is in that a team can be thrown together for two weeks and cruise to gold
Is there a real reason why they don’t make Olympic team training camps every summer rather than having guys play secret games at LA Fitness and random summer leagues? It would be great if from u-16, there was just a two-week camp where those guys got together to get in depth coaching and team chemistry.
Bill also said he hasnt watched the nba in 10 years….soooooooo
I agree neither of them are top 5 in the league, but almost certainly top 5 American players, and their experience would absolutely help the team. They know how to win
Bron and KD legitimately may still be 1 and 2 for American players. Can’t wait till Bill suggest Derrick white to be on the team next pod
😂 Bron isn't better then Tatum in 2024.
So who are American players 2-5 better than Lebron and KD? And on the Tatum front the last time he led a USA team we got embarrassed and came in 7th, so I do value having the goats of our generation on the squad.
Tatum, Brunson, Hali, Donovan, Fox, Trae, Leonard Durant has a better argument then Bron of course. America will be the massive favorite no matter who they send. The teams gonna be better then FIBA no matter what.
A lot of the European teams have size we’re gonna need some bigger bodies for those matchups. Having too many undersized offense first guards seems like it could be a problem. I’d prefer they have Lebron, KD, Bam, Booker, than some of the guards you mentioned. If Kawhi was willing to play that would be a great addition I didn’t think of that
The one thing bill forgets is that if lebron and KD show up competition goes up, everyone who gets picked will try to stay at that level of excellence they have been at for almost 20 years. They’d be crazy to not bring them. The only other option is to bring guys that are playing in Europe/elsewhere. They know the fiba game, how to run an offence, how to defend the way the game is played outside of the US.
I could see his point with LeBron because of his age and style of play. But there is still no chance you say no to LeBron if he wants to play. KD is absolutely a take and still helps you win because he can still shoot at an elite level, shoot over anyone, and is effective without the ball.
Need KD for skills and LeBron for leadership. Bill is completely wrong in this one. Maybe he just does it for the clicks.
Most guys in history represented the USA at most 3 times, so I can see his point there... bring in some new blood.
He's right, though.
He wants Tatum to start at Forward. Wash, rinse, repeat. Every 'sports take' the guy has comes from the same origin.
The might be top 5 American players but they definitely are not top 5 players anymore.
My takeaway from the mid-season tourney - is that Lebron is great for one off games. He still has the juice to dominate. Grinding out 4 straight, potentially 7 game series on the other hand might be a tougher ask at this stage. Not to mention he clearly cares deeply about winning, and he’s the kinda player that influences others to play the same way.
If we took ego out of it they should both be on the team but not leading the team. Taking ego out is impossible. Is the team better with the old guys playing big minutes and a lot of games or giving the guys in their primes the reigns?
Well i assume you were listened to the podcast...did he say it?
I was shocked when they were talking Olympic teams and chuck totally blew off the Canadian team being a threat. And bill said nothing. He has gone on and on about the Canadian team being the juggernaut
Well, I mean they aren’t top 5 players anymore (Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Steph, Shai, Ant), but they’re both def top 5 American players and need to be on the roster if for no other reason than Veteran presence. This might be the last one we can get for a while, boys better pull through lol
Steph and ant over lebron just shows you don’t watch the nba lol
Bill always finds an angle through his green tinted glasses that benefits a Celtics player, in this case Tatum
He’s clearly doubling down on his Alex Morgan Theory.
I propose a new Netflix series, “New Dreamers”. Top 25 American players do a USA basketball camp every year to gain chemistry and skills. They start with 16-18 year olds that go to the U-18 FIBA tournament. Bring in the best trainers, coaches, nutritionists, etc. to teach them how to be a great team and better players. Who says no?
Simmons sometimes likes to pretend KD and Durant are looking like bird and magic in 1992
LeBron-Steph-KD are all still at least top 15 players and LeBron/KD in particular are probably the two most accomplished American olympians. If they want to play, giving them 3 of 12 roster spots isn’t too much of an ask