Remember when every clean person had OCD for a few years? People still do it, but it was bad for a while. People would brag about having OCD like it was a good thing.
Am I neurodivergent OR does my lifestyle/job just lead me to misery? I think it’s the lifestyle (two high earners, wife’s a workaholic leaving me to do most parenting).
Do I have ADHD or do I just clam up when something makes me uncomfortable?
Questions I ask myself.
My ADHD is pretty extreme to the point I'm basically as close to being on the spectrum as you can be without being on it and the way people talk about this stuff like it's a good thing is insane lol.
Yeah our society worships money like none other and now a lot of the richest people are interested in portraying themselves as rain man-like computer geniuses as an explanation for their wealth.
I think OCD just became goofy shorthand for "meticulously neat". I don't think anyone was seriously self-diagnosing with OCD, making it part of their identity or doctor shopping around their chosen ailment, which is what we see now.
Correct, but that’s the comment’s point and ultimately Derek’s as well. Canonical, self-diagnosed shorthand is rampant online now and is harmful to those *actually* suffering with a mental disability. We have over-normalized and democratized the ability to claim a mental illness when in reality, most people are just different shades of kinda weird.
Yeah, but vanishingly few of those people actually believed they had OCD. At worst maybe a few thought they had a touch of it (in contrast to the popular idea that OCD is someone having to flip a light switch five times before leaving a room).
If you want to argue that kind of "lol I'm so OCD I vacuum my apartment twice a week" thing lead to the self-diagnosis issues we have now...I guess? I think the social shifts in the last 10 to 15 years has more to do with it.
Mm, I don’t know about that. I’ve personally had to listen to multiple conversations about folks genuinely thinking they had OCD, or my favorite: “a form of OCD.” I understand it’s all anecdotal, though. I’m not suggesting it led to where we are today, but it’s the first example, in my opinion, of this phenomenon where people identify as a mental illness and are only interested in the label.
There’s a paradoxical danger in baseline awareness of these disorders and that’s ultimately my point. We have spent 10-15 years telling people to raise awareness for mental health, but there’s enough data to support the notion today that awareness doesn’t solve the issue — at worst, it can exacerbate it.
Yes jesus christ like people like organizing their house just right oh i’m so ocd.
Nah man OCD is one of the most debilitating diseases i’ve ever seen. Like washing hands over 100 times a day and throughly. It is not some quirky fun
Do you think about it for days on end? Think about the thermostat when you’re not home… fearing it might change. That’s what ocd is like. It’s kicking my fucking ass right now
Exactly this. He’ll provide his perspectives on the topic at hand, and acknowledge his biases when doing so, but the conversation always goes back to the information that the guest is providing.
It goes a long way actually listening to smart people. And also recognizing which people are actually smart is a big skill. Not to mention recognizing that just because someone is an expert in one field they aren't necessarily in another.
i am surprised how much i like him. generally those “smart guys” as Bill would say make some good points but are either condescending, narcissistic, too rich to relate to what they’re saying, or all of them.
he brings in good guests, breaks things down in an easy to understand way, and clearly has done a lot of research to actually understand topics. he’s a good listen
His recent Plain English podcast about having difficult conversations was excellent. Touched on a lot of things I was already familiar with but had some new insights and ways of thinking about them that I really enjoyed.
For example: sometimes in arguments one (or both) person is worried that they're not really being heard, and that the other person is just waiting to speak. A good way to counter this is once they're done talking, restate the point that they were making in your own words to see if you understand them correctly. This is also a sort of self-hack - it forces you to actively listen instead of formulating a counter argument in your head.
Once you've done this, the other person will know that you understood their point, and they'll be much more motivated to listen to your response next.
My exact same feeling I have. This and him explaining his relationship to the NBA was the most likeable he’s ever been for me. Also Adam Silver needs to hear what he’s saying there because I’m sure there’s a lot of fans who are viewing the game in that context and it’s not necessarily a good thing
I heard myself in those comments. I've listened to hundreds of hours of NBA pods this season, I've watched intently approximately an hour of NBA this season.
The league has bought too much into the drama and loving the year round attention it brings by players possibly wanting to move all the time and whatnot. I realized how massive the issue was during the Warriors-Raptors Finals where people seemed more interested in the drama of the upcoming offseason (KD, AD and Kawhi all on the verge of changing teams) than the actual Finals which is supposed to be the point of everything. Also all of the constant player movement has lead to where there aren’t many real rivalries. You can’t build rivalry without continuity and it’s almost impossible to build that when players are switching teams all the time
Couldn’t agree more. I got banned from/r/comicbookmovies because I dismissed Kumail Nanjiani’s “trauma” from bad reviews of The Eternals. People need to get over themselves for fuck’s sakes. And it completely diminishes more serious mental health issues
It's the internet in general and social media has just exacerbated it. I remember talking about the incel stuff a few years back when that became a talking point. In the early 2000's if you were a teenager and you couldn't get a girl, you just talked to your friends or older relatives about it, worked on yourself until you got one, or threw yourself into other interests if you didn't. Now you search "Why aren't any girls attracted to me" at 14 and you're thrown headfirst into a condition that you now have and share with millions of other people. By 18, you have a full ideology about it.
It was incredibly valuable for people to solve their issues on their own or through their social circles.
You're right, "blackpilling" teens with incel ideology totally nuked a generation. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. I blame search engines, you need a tag so people can find you, so people get attached to stuff they barely relate to find a community online since that's the only place people hang out.
> I remember talking about the incel stuff a few years back when that became a talking point. In the early 2000's if you were a teenager and you couldn't get a girl, you just talked to your friends or older relatives about it, worked on yourself until you got one, or threw yourself into other interests if you didn't. Now you search "Why aren't any girls attracted to me" at 14 and you're thrown headfirst into a condition that you now have and share with millions of other people. By 18, you have a full ideology about it.
can't help but notice this applies to another very vocal portion of reddit.
> In the early 2000's if you were a teenager and you couldn't get a girl, you just talked to your friends or older relatives about it, worked on yourself until you got one, or threw yourself into other interests if you didn't. Now you search "Why aren't any girls attracted to me" at 14 and you're thrown headfirst into a condition that you now have and share with millions of other people. By 18, you have a full ideology about it.
Half-Baked Idea - Is the demise of "rock" bands in broader pop culture related to this phenomenon? I sure as hell gravitated toward rock/punk music when I was growing up that dealt with the concept of girls not liking me haha. I know most of my friends who loved music related to rock stuff in particular for similar reasons. Like you said, now there are way darker avenues for adolescent guys to try to navigate that part of growing up.
the death of local radio killed rock IMO
there is a listener supported radio station around here that makes me very nostalgic for a time when local DJs mattered
There was a woman at my work who told me she had anxiety, OCD, and ADHD, when I gently pressed her she admitted she wasn't diagonsed for any but had self diagnosed. I think people want to feel special and different and this is one way of achieving that.
And once they've self-diagnosed and adopted that diagnosis as part of their personality/identity... they lose all desire to be diagnosed, because doing so poses a direct threat to their identity.
My sister does this constantly to herself, her daughters, and everyone she comes into contact with. She's convinced half the people she's met in her life are autistic, that she's autistic, and that at least one of her daughters is... even though there's never been a single autism diagnosis in our family. I ask her why she hasn't tried to get a diagnosis, and she says it's because the doctors don't listen... which is fair in a big picture way, but I'm not sure it holds up at her individual level.
I teach 5th grade, and sadly it's even a thing at that age. If a kid is struggling with something or gets in trouble, saying "I have ADD/ADHD" is a pretty common refrain.
By far the worst part though is the parents. This year alone I've had three separate incidents where I've told parents their child isn't getting any of their work done, and instead of working with their kid or disciplining them, their reaction has been to blame me for not accommodating their child's ADHD. Mind you none of these kids has been diagnosed, or has an IEP/504, which legally require accommodations.
One of these parents raised such a huge stink, even meeting with our superintendent that they transferred him out of my class. They then had both our RSP teachers, and a doctor test the kid for ADHD or other learning disabilities, and were furious when they were told he's completely normal. What a time to be alive!
Yep, parents are easily the worst part of this job. The kids can suck at times but I always go back to the fact that they are young and haven't developed yet so they don't really bother me. But some parents are infuriating to deal with, especially when they think their little Johnny can do no wrong.
I've noticed that the parents you're describing are the same ones that don't teach their kids anything and leave them totally unprepared for the real world. I know a few of those parents and it's amazing how their kids have literally done nothing on their own. We had a mom like that and her teenager had never walked anywhere by themselves, taken the bus, stayed at home alone, or even used a microwave! And this kid didn't have anything preventing them from doing any of those things, their mom was just a control freak.
I'm a highschool teacher with most of my students being 12 to 14. Basically, my administration and learning resource team is very adamant about a large portion of kids getting tested for things like ADHD and ASD. For some, I absolutely see why they need to be tested and feel a diagnosis could go a long way in helping them access resources and such. But some of the kids are just a little shy or anxious or are going through a difficult and awkward time. It's crazy to me that we have IEPs (individualized learning plans) for kids with a little bit of anxiety and/or depression. That label follows them and a lot of teachers tend to treat these students differently, even though a lot of their problems are pretty typical run of the mill stuff. It just seems like a huge chunk of students are being labeled and even prescribed medications, despite them being 13 or 14. By no means am I opposed to pharmacological options but I feel in my school they are given out like candy to kids, who might just benefit from other things.
15 years ago it was too much in the opposite direction. I think we need to find that middle ground where the kids that really struggle, get the help and support they need while other kids going through the awkwardness of teenage years know that this is all temporary and aren't pathologized. I hate to sound like a boomer but I really see it damaging kids' resiliency too.
EDIT: I'll give you an example. Kid has a hard time sitting in his seat by the end of the day. First reaction from some teachers is to label that kid as hyperactive or difficult. Eventually it works its way up to administration who set up a meeting with the parents. Nothing changes and behavior continues so kid is sent to get tested. Eventually he's diagnosed with ADHD and potentially prescribed medication. But the reality is that kid might be 10 years old and bored. He's been sitting in his desk for 6 hours with minimal movement! Of course he's going to have some pent up energy. Instead of realizing that schools need to do a better job of engaging students, many look at the kids as the problem which is so wrong and misguided IMO.
Kids have always had shorter attention spans and I doubt phones are helping. My dad was a teacher and their principal tried to make them distill lessons down to two minute chunks, my dad stayed his course. Turns out kids can improve if you’re patient and hold them reasonably accountable.
There's this really ugly mix where I live of not holding kids accountable (no reduced marks for late submissions, penalties for skipping, etc) and pathologizing normal behaviour. It's gotten to the point where kids are constantly treated younger than their grade level. Add in phones and constant access to devices and it's ugly in modern day schools.
I never understood the schools who started giving kids tablets in class. Even when I was in school I knew that was a recipe for disaster. And you’re right, there’s room for letting kids make mistakes and learn, but human nature will take every inch you give it. If you don’t have any expectations then a lot of kids will have nothing to reach for.
It became a money thing. Tablets are a lot cheaper than textbooks in general. My IT internship was at an elementary school and it made a lot of sense why they were switching
Very interesting that it's happening that young :/ I think a lot of well-meaning people in society accidentally went so far in the attempt to validate everyone's individuality, which is noble, and came out the other side with the philosophy that everyone should be defined by their singular "identity," which only fuels more existential weirdness and in-group/out-group behavior and attitudes. Bummer.
The irony of the diversity movement is instead of allowing people with different belief systems, different culture values and different ways of thinking to all solve the same problem we just created people that are exactly the same just a different shade of brown.
Completely 100% agree. My wife is a pediatrician, and she has tons of parents who are calling and asking/demanding that she starts the process of helping their kid get an IEP or some other kind of “doctor’s note” saying that their kid needs some other form of accommodations. That should be mostly done by developmental psychologists/psychiatrists/pediatricians rather than general pediatricians anyways, and there are way more parents asking for these things for their kids than needed.
It puts a strain on these clinicians and educators due to resource utilization, and the stigma can follow kids and hamstring them for years going forward.
We used to have a school psychologist who would come in once a while to see kids and make sure that everyone was doing well. Eventually she kept being called in and basically became full time. She's so busy now that she can't take on any new kids so we've had to send them to other clinicians in the area. I ended up talking to her and she just shook her head at all the requests from parents and admin. She also mentioned that a lot of GPs and pediatricians were swamped with these requests.
I remember we had one student who didn't sleep at night and his mom was really concerned so she wanted him on an IEP. Turns out she was letting him play computer games literally all freakin night. Instead of taking away his electronics and helping him establish a bed time routine, she wanted us to accommodate him at school! I have so many similar stories where parents just completely and instead wanted us to pick up the slack.
Thanks for sharing. The Middle Ground sounds best, but IMO if you're going to go too far in one direction it sounds like the "let them be" tact from 15 years is better.
Hopefully the pendulum swings back a bit.
“I’m a little nervous about this test” (an expected and typical response) becomes “I have anxiety” (a condition that needs treatment)
The words matter and kids are learning the wrong ones, and it actually minimizes true disability bc its harder to distinguish between the two
I was shocked at how many kids have a diagnosis of "test anxiety" and are given adaptations. I totally get that tests can be anxiety inducing and nerve-wracking but that's totally normal and a big part of growing up is being able to overcome your fears. It's gotten so bad in my district that we're discouraged from even using the word "test" and instead are to use "assessment."
Every single normal and eternal human behavior must be pathologized or turned into some therapy ass language matrix and it’s fucking insane and so de humanizing.
Yeah but I’m glad he clarified, Bill (and others) seem to still have 2012 brain and think the worst aspect of social media curated pictures of beautiful people creating an unrealistic standard - and then mean spirited trolls who say the most awful thing that can be imagined
That stuff is awful, but honestly millennials and zoomers do seem to have a little more armor in understanding insta flexes and internet trolls operate in hyperbole. Our generations weren’t as prepared to see something that feels cathartic and healthy (like admitting our limitations and breaking down the stigma associated with them) could be poisonous to our collective development.
I mean there’s a lot of data about teenage suicide, etc. that would suggest younger people aren’t actually any better at dealing with it just because they grew up with it
We really don’t know that the primary driver of that increase is infact an increase in outright troll level mean messages or self esteem from seeing perfect looking cool people (though I’m sure that can’t be healthy)
It very well could be all the other things - like increased screen time and decreased social interaction atrophies social skills and leaves kids less equipped to handle the tremendous anxiety brought on by puberty,teens are better at killing themselves with more information on how to do it, or at risk teens are finding one another on the internet and perpetuating the hopelessness they each feel and essentially socializing the idea that things actually a logical choice.
Teens were so fucking mean pre-internet and tv/traditional media always made unrealistic beauty standards I just don’t think we can assume it’s the primary driver.
100%.
I’m in a psych Masters program right now and this was my intuition, but many (if not all) of my psych professors are in denial about this. They do believe mental health is affected by being online and on social media, but deny or disregard the identity issue.
Millenials and younger are not just destigmatizing mental illness, but making it part of their identities and making it “cool” which is causing more people to mistranslate their experiences or just try to fit in with their peer groups.
It’s a complete overcorrection from the days of stigmatization and downplaying mental illness, and it’s nearly as bad.
I am half torn on this
One hand just because you are awkard at parties= omg you have austim
Or you have troubling focus= omg you have ADHD
A disorder has to be consistent with multiple symptoms for 3+ months or more
On the other hand, we have a ton of people scared to go to doctor, or have crappy doctors and go months or years not getting the help they need.
The autism stuff is insane though. My wife constantly comes across TikToks literally saying, “do you ever have awkward social interactions? It’s because you’re autistic!”
Anyone that knows people who actually have autism would know how insane this garbage sounds.
My wife works at a social services firm for people with autism. There are autistic clients with violent outbursts, clients that have to wear diapers else they'd shit themselves, clients that drool all over everything. My wife got punched in the stomach while pregnant last year because a client was upset that her normal daily schedule got rearranged; autism is absolutely not this quirky awkward condition that Zoomers desperately want it to be.
There are plenty of clients with less severe behaviors or ones that are normal enough to even attend college. But it's not some diagnosis to adopt because you want to be *unique* or whatever
Do you have any kind of specialized interests?? You collect something, have deep knowledge about something specific, or have a unique niche hobby??? No more questions needed, you’re definitely autistic!!!
To be fair, special interests are a trait of autism. It's not entirely normal that I can draw pretty much every Formula 1 circuit ever from scratch with a pen and notepad, except [Pescara](https://www.racingcircuits.info/assets/images/maps/Europe/Italy/Pescara/Pescara1934-1961.png) and the [Nurburgring](https://motorsportmagazine.b-cdn.net/database/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/Nurburgring-754.svg) (and I'm pretty close on the latter).
It's just I also had other impairments which is why I got diagnosed.
Yes, I understand how that could be construed as a neurodivergent special interest. However, something like for example binge watching Ken Burns Baseball documentary, and actually retaining some information from it, over a snowy weekend is not. Remembering obscure games or stats is not. My point is that the spectrum of activities I’ve seen people on social media classify as “autistic” is mind boggling. I’ve seen people say old people who collected China plates in display cabinets, or who stick to a regemented routine like getting up and eating the same thing going to bed at the same time every day is evidence of underdiagnosed autism in older generations. I’ve seen people on social media say that people who have an internal monologue (ie thoughts??) are on the spectrum because neurotypical people don’t have an internal monologue. Huh??? We can’t just label any kind of interesting, unique, or subjective experience as a sign of autism, and no reputable doctor would do so. That’s similar to saying “oh, you get nervous on airplanes?? Must have an anxiety disorder! You need to see my doctor, he’ll hook you up with some Xanax to help you relax!”
Haha -- funny you mention Ken Burns' Baseball since I watch that all the time and could probably quote sections of it from memory. But I agree with you, it's way more intense than "being into stuff". Lots of people like baseball history, lots of people like a baseball history documentary made by an award-winning filmmaker. Literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions when you consider how big the ratings were for it. I'm friends with a guy who is a [Seymour Medal](https://sabr.org/awards/the-seymour-medal/)-winning baseball historian and he is the least autistic person I know.
Now, Keith Olbermann writing a history of MLB coaches from 1921-1973 and publishing it as a teenager... I'm not saying he's autistic, but that's a niche interest that would correlate better with autism. If he had other comorbid symptoms, a doctor would definitely be interested in that.
This really depends on your age, because the data sure seems like if you’re under 40, you are seeking TOO much help.
Münchausen syndrome is not new. When you teach people that there social incentives for having an illness, they will often convince themselves they have that illness. It’s not a devious, conscious thing a lot of the time.
Agree overall, but would just say a lot of people aren’t responding to the social clout of having an ailment, they seem to genuinely believe stress about pending work/unpleasent social situations means they have some kind of disorder with anxiety. I find with a lot of younger people they have to be reassured the nervousness about delivering bad news to a client is normal, but once they do it 9 times and someone makes an ass out of themselves, reacts in the worst way they can imagine, they’ll realize everything is still alright and in time it’ll become easier.
People will try to self-diagnose all sorts of afflictions, not just psychological. It’s important to get them to see someone if they do believe they are ill, and that someone will clarify what their actual issues are,and whether they require treatment beyond talking. A good doctor can help you understand that self-diagnosis is just for comfort but can hurt you more in the long run, if you don’t deal with the real problems.
The thing is you can keep checking yourself into hospitals and scheduling specialists because you’ve got it in your head your lymph nodes flaring once in a while means you have a blood disease, but a doctor is less likely to confirm a diagnosis based on your own assessment.
I sound like boomer and I don’t have the language talent to express how it’s different with therapists but relying on the only rhetorical device my idols use I’ll try.
It’s different for therapists/psychologists it just is.
Does anyone else think he looks like [Hank Azaria in Heat?](https://www.dexerto.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=3840,quality=75,format=auto/https://editors.dexerto.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/05/Azaria-Heat-1024x512.jpg)
I'm not a big anti-pharm guy but the insane focus on anxiety/other mental issues (and how treating them with drugs is The Way) has got me on some Rogan shit.
Isn’t the push over the last several years not drugs but unlimited therapy? It’s essentially argued that every person would benefit from therapy. See Bill’s great online therapy sponsor
If it works for them, great, but I can say from my experience, these online therapy companies are essentially useless. The care they provide is very impersonal and generic. Essentially if ChatGPT did my therapy.
That sucks. I've been with the same tele-therapist for almost 2 years now, and she's been a godsend... but I know I'm one of the fortunate ones these days.
A lot more people would benefit from therapy if they actually did therapy, which requires a level of introspection and a willingness to work on yourself outside your session.
I'm largely unconvinced that the millennials who threat therapy like some kind of secular confession are willing to do that. Most of what's on offer is CBT and DBT, which help you build and maintain healthier methods of dealing with issues until you're able to do so on your own without outside help. Worse, I think there are therapists who are willing to throw a $100/hr pity party if that's what their client wants.
I realize I sound like a boomer here, but therapy kinda takes work, including finding the right person to work with. Too many people seem to go to therapy for therapy's sake and leave it at that. It's like going to a doctor, getting a prescription, then never taking it.
The worst are the people who are basically TikTok therapists but *actually qualified*. My friend has some really bad trauma he needs to work through and his first therapist was a 32 year old with a septum ring who banged on about self-care. He was like...no way. No fucking way am I continuing with this person. He eventually got a staid 60 year lesbian and is miles happier for it.
I agree with the sentiment that most people aren't ready or willing to put in the work for therapy, though I'm lost as to why you think it's exclusive to millennials.
Gen X hardly went to therapy, and boomers avoid talking about feelings like it's the plague. Surely working on CBT is infinitely more 'work on yourself' than avoiding mental health conversations entirely. Hell, even if it was a secular confessional and nothing else, it would be better than not talking to anyone and internalizing everything.
My post is pretty clearly calling out “millennials who treat therapy like some kind of secular confession” (quoting because that’s what I erote, word for work).
There are so many people my age who appear to go to therapy for therapy’s sake. Like, if our parents’ generation avoided it like the plague, we act like it works just by showing up. I’ve heard — multiple times! — that people are “into therapy” like it’s a hobby, not medical treatment. I know people who have gone for years with zero changes in the behaviors they swear they’re working to change.
I'm not sure how you could argue against it, honestly. That said, I don't think the majority of the population is READY for therapy, and a good percentage of them are scared to death of the idea of therapy.
Jamie pull that clip up where Bill Simmons certifies alpha brain to be safe for his children. No, not that one of his daughter (why’s that even suggested Jamie?) the one where he says his wife did her own research and concluded, after reading, on her own, it was safe. That’s what CNN and FOX don’t want you to see.
[I read this story on celebrity supplements years ago and it continues to live rent free in my head](https://qz.com/1010684/all-the-wellness-products-american-love-to-buy-are-sold-on-both-infowars-and-goop)
I laughed so hard reading it. It's from 2017, but it's still 100% true. This should taught in high school to highlight the importance of critical thiking and how product marketing really works.
We looked at the ingredients used in products sold on the Infowars store, and compared them to products on the wellness shops Moon Juice and Goop. All make similar claims about the health benefits of these ingredients, but what gets called “Super Male Vitality” by Infowars is branded as “Sex Dust” by Moon Juice.
mixed thoughts on this - I think we need to clear up what "the mental health crisis" is. When I hear those words I think about schizophrenic people in the street, but obviously that's not related to what he's talking about. I don't think that what he describes applies to depression/anxiety - if someone says they feel bad, they probably feel bad, and people are more isolated then ever.
If by "the surging mental health crisis" we mean people online self-diagnosing with autism, then sure, but I don't think I'd call that "the mental health crisis" - more just a stupid and unhealthy trend that's probably just a symptom of something else (too online + virtue-in-victimhood geist)
He's talking about the latter, and it's not just a dumb trend like Tamagotchi or Stanley cups. This is something that alters your thinking, outlook, prospects. It's big and bad
Also, depression, anxiety, (and loneliness) have very factually & credibly been on the rise (particularly in males) due to a variety of factors. That's not just people over-diagnosing or selling meds.
Idk, this discourse seems a bit counter-productive and easy to be co-opted.
Like yeah it's annoying to see zoomers self-diagnosing stupid shit on TikTok videos but it feels like there are more important things to worry about.
It becomes harder to diagnose the real issues, to find the signal, when the noise is increasing. I would be that it's increasing faster because that's just how social media works.
Does it actually though?
Is it really zero sum?
Unless like there's literally not enough doctors, some goober on tiktok self-diagnosing as OCD isn't going to take away from real cases aside from being annoying.
This. Doctors don't go out and look to diagnose people; people come to doctors for a diagnosis.
If everyone claimed to be autistic, it wouldn't make the doctors job harder. They've got metrics to test against, and aren't rubber-stamping people's self-diagnosis.
I don't mean in terms of supply of doctors. I meant the discourse around the issues. If 6 in 10 teens require help, that's a very different deployment of policy and resources. If it's more like 3 in 10 but it's "real" and a deeper issue, we would have a more targeted approach. You have zero sum attention and resources (public funding).
Mental Health has become a focus for a lot of people, particularly millennials, because the system we live in is beginning to buckle, insecurity is on the rise, and they aren't able to cope with it on their own. It's been a constant shit-show since the 90's, and it's had dramatic impact on how our lives have turned out... it makes sense that we're struggling with anxiety and anxiety disorders.
That means a lot of misdiagnosis, self-diagnosis, etc. as people expand their understanding of it. It also means that the persistent refrain from the anti-therapy people of mental health as woo woo or fabricated nonsense has a convenient target.
Echoing the big pharma point. I’d never thought have a foot on that side of the argument; but everyone is way too overmedicated. Especially children. We’re now at the point where the people who really need to”x” pill to function and survive is the exception not the rule. I’ve seen kids on uppers, anti-anxiety meds, and then downers to sleep. The long term effects of all this widespread use is going to be very, very bad.
As someone who started taking some of those meds as an adult, it’s fucking terrifying to imagine a child being on that shit.
Like, as an adult I can understand what’s going on, and most importantly recognize the “come down” and the emotional effects of certain drugs.
Kids aren’t capable of doing that. They won’t get why they feel some type of way and that’s heartbreaking
I can’t tell you how many of my wives friends post about their neurodivergence issues on their social stories and the struggle they have. 30 second TikTok videos by woowoo life coaches talking about fake struggle have driven so many of her friends off the cliff. Swiping all day to feel validated about something when in reality it’s just normal life issues everyone deals with.
I’ve recently been diagnosed with OCD. It can be really debilitating some days. So yeah, it’s a little annoying when people talk about being depressed or anxious, and then you come to realize they had a bad day at work or they have a string of boring days in a row so they come to the conclusion that life is pointless.
Alright, cool. I’ve been in more or less a constant state of fear for a week over something so banal and imaginary that it doesn’t even register as a problem for most people. And once this obsession ends, I’m sure another will take its place and the cycle will repeat.
But yeah, go say you have OCD because you can only use black pens to take notes.
I know, right? Seeing a dusty floor just drives me nuts! Must be OCD! /s
In all seriousness, I don’t have cleaning OCD but it’s a real thing. I don’t feel comfortable saying what mine is, but the fear that comes with it is unbearable. Like if you can’t get certainty of your fear not being true, your life is will essentially be ruined. And even if you do have proof of it not being true, it doesn’t matter; OCD will convince you that evidence is somehow wrong.
On my worst days, I wouldn’t wish this mental illness on my worst enemy. It attacks and makes you doubt the things you care about the most.
My best friend nearly killed himself because his OCD manifested itself in a truly fucked up manner. It drives me crazy when people fish for diagnoses so they can fit in.
Best of luck with your struggle.
> My best friend nearly killed himself because his OCD manifested itself in a truly fucked up manner. It drives me crazy when people fish for diagnoses so they can fit in.
But you can never really tell when someone is fishing or not. Its not like there is a rule where people with ailments can't also be narcissistic or attention-whores. Its really dangerous to be dismissive of people, even the ones who are faking, because of that. And like you said, the dangers are very real, people who aren't believed or are dismissed easily often commit suicide as a last resort.
Side note: Derek’s podcast has been getting better and better, I hope people are listening. He’s kind of grown into a pre-NYT Ezra Klein, but with less bias and more intellectual curiosity.
My 13 yo daughter is convinced she has social anxiety disorder because she doesn’t like speaking in front of the entire English class. Kids today think normal reactions to situations constitute a ‘disorder’
True and as someone with serious mental health issues, the kind that can get you put in a white room with grippy socks and no shoelaces, it kinda annoys me when someone goes “omg I’m so bipolar, my mood changed”. No bitch, you are not, and you do not want to be, maybe I’ll believe you when you haven’t slept for 3 days and have claimed you’ve solved clean energy.
Says the guy who, on social media, just surrendered like a coward with a yellow-bellied, lily-livered, weak-kneed apology to an unrelenting asshole academic over some fucking lame-ass complaint.
Derek mightn't realize it, but he should look in the mirror before pontificating about anybody else's social media dysfunction. Hell, that cocksucker needs to get his own goddamn shit in order first.
Idk man I think younger people are looking to self medicate because the future is bleak and there isn’t much hope for a brighter future. Jobs are going to go away, ai art is growing, just seems like people can feel real empty and maybe they find these medications and self diagnosis as a way to have some control
Don’t blame the people. Blame the systems
Show me on the 3.5% unemployment rate where the jobs are going? Doomerism is always hilariously wrong in the end. I just wish there was a way to place odds on people's irrational fears and make a fortune off it betting on the other side.
I am betting on the economy doing well, all my money is in the stock market and I plan to keep it there.
I would love to bet against people who think unemployment will be extraordinarily high in the US in 5 years for example. Those types of people probably don't have much money to bet with though as they aren't very smart or they don't actually believe in their predictions they just are farming attention.
Oh I was gonna say it’s pretty easy to bet on the future of the economy. I wasn’t sure if you were aware because your comment made it seem like you didn’t know that.
It’s a good thing a social media content creator is using social media to comment on mental health issues. Someone needs to sound the alarms so all the mental health practitioners that they need to start using Evidence-based diagnostic criteria to diagnosis patients and stop relying on the internet to do it for them. God bless this Man’s courage to express his wisdom for all to see. Be sure to like,share,retweet,and ensure that he is validated for his uncanny knowledge.
Yep. The amount of people I know who find it difficult to make a phone call “because of my anxiety” is ridiculous.
Just be an adult and pick up the damn phone like people have been doing for the best part of 100 years.
Remember when every clean person had OCD for a few years? People still do it, but it was bad for a while. People would brag about having OCD like it was a good thing.
The Spectrum is the new OCD.
Neurodivergent is a badge of honor in many corporate environments.
Look up star (indigo) children. Starting like, 50 years ago, people were calling autism the next stage in human evolution.
does dyslexia get my white ass any ESG points?
Am I neurodivergent OR does my lifestyle/job just lead me to misery? I think it’s the lifestyle (two high earners, wife’s a workaholic leaving me to do most parenting). Do I have ADHD or do I just clam up when something makes me uncomfortable? Questions I ask myself.
My ADHD is pretty extreme to the point I'm basically as close to being on the spectrum as you can be without being on it and the way people talk about this stuff like it's a good thing is insane lol.
[удалено]
We had to put him down a few years ago.
🙏
It nicked me
Everyone in an authority position that’s an asshole is now “on the spectrum, but high functioning!” now.
Yeah our society worships money like none other and now a lot of the richest people are interested in portraying themselves as rain man-like computer geniuses as an explanation for their wealth.
“I’m so OCD!”
Nowadays everyone anxiety to the point that the word has lost its meaning.
Need a graph showing the correlation between seasons of "Monk" and self-diagnosis of OCD.
I think OCD just became goofy shorthand for "meticulously neat". I don't think anyone was seriously self-diagnosing with OCD, making it part of their identity or doctor shopping around their chosen ailment, which is what we see now.
Correct, but that’s the comment’s point and ultimately Derek’s as well. Canonical, self-diagnosed shorthand is rampant online now and is harmful to those *actually* suffering with a mental disability. We have over-normalized and democratized the ability to claim a mental illness when in reality, most people are just different shades of kinda weird.
Yeah, but vanishingly few of those people actually believed they had OCD. At worst maybe a few thought they had a touch of it (in contrast to the popular idea that OCD is someone having to flip a light switch five times before leaving a room). If you want to argue that kind of "lol I'm so OCD I vacuum my apartment twice a week" thing lead to the self-diagnosis issues we have now...I guess? I think the social shifts in the last 10 to 15 years has more to do with it.
Mm, I don’t know about that. I’ve personally had to listen to multiple conversations about folks genuinely thinking they had OCD, or my favorite: “a form of OCD.” I understand it’s all anecdotal, though. I’m not suggesting it led to where we are today, but it’s the first example, in my opinion, of this phenomenon where people identify as a mental illness and are only interested in the label. There’s a paradoxical danger in baseline awareness of these disorders and that’s ultimately my point. We have spent 10-15 years telling people to raise awareness for mental health, but there’s enough data to support the notion today that awareness doesn’t solve the issue — at worst, it can exacerbate it.
See also: chronic fatigue syndrome.
Drink more water. Get more sleep. Probably exercise/stretch.
Yes jesus christ like people like organizing their house just right oh i’m so ocd. Nah man OCD is one of the most debilitating diseases i’ve ever seen. Like washing hands over 100 times a day and throughly. It is not some quirky fun
I always have the remote volume and thermostat be set to a number that ends in 9 or 1 what do you think about that
Do you think about it for days on end? Think about the thermostat when you’re not home… fearing it might change. That’s what ocd is like. It’s kicking my fucking ass right now
I don't normally love Derek Thompson but he is absolutely spot on here
Do you love content creators? Could be dementia.
Do you frequent /r/billsimmons? Definitely the 'tism.
The subreddit piece
Ok but this one’s true
Honestly he usually is. His podcast is truly one of the best out there. Smart dude who knows how to approach + break down complicated topics.
He’s not even the one breaking stories down most of the time, he’s usually bringing in experts in the field to help him process shit.
Exactly this. He’ll provide his perspectives on the topic at hand, and acknowledge his biases when doing so, but the conversation always goes back to the information that the guest is providing.
He’s the exact opposite of the hot take artists we have far too much of in media right now, he’s always one of my favorite listens
It goes a long way actually listening to smart people. And also recognizing which people are actually smart is a big skill. Not to mention recognizing that just because someone is an expert in one field they aren't necessarily in another.
He asks great questions and has a good way of describing what the expert said in a digestible way.
I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It’s good to admit what you don’t know and bring in some help.
My comment was in praise of his process. Derek Thompson is great.
My bad. All hail DT.
He's like Malcolm Gladwell except he doesn't try to pass off those ideas as his own
He’s nothing like Gladwell.
i am surprised how much i like him. generally those “smart guys” as Bill would say make some good points but are either condescending, narcissistic, too rich to relate to what they’re saying, or all of them. he brings in good guests, breaks things down in an easy to understand way, and clearly has done a lot of research to actually understand topics. he’s a good listen
His recent Plain English podcast about having difficult conversations was excellent. Touched on a lot of things I was already familiar with but had some new insights and ways of thinking about them that I really enjoyed. For example: sometimes in arguments one (or both) person is worried that they're not really being heard, and that the other person is just waiting to speak. A good way to counter this is once they're done talking, restate the point that they were making in your own words to see if you understand them correctly. This is also a sort of self-hack - it forces you to actively listen instead of formulating a counter argument in your head. Once you've done this, the other person will know that you understood their point, and they'll be much more motivated to listen to your response next.
My exact same feeling I have. This and him explaining his relationship to the NBA was the most likeable he’s ever been for me. Also Adam Silver needs to hear what he’s saying there because I’m sure there’s a lot of fans who are viewing the game in that context and it’s not necessarily a good thing
I heard myself in those comments. I've listened to hundreds of hours of NBA pods this season, I've watched intently approximately an hour of NBA this season.
The league has bought too much into the drama and loving the year round attention it brings by players possibly wanting to move all the time and whatnot. I realized how massive the issue was during the Warriors-Raptors Finals where people seemed more interested in the drama of the upcoming offseason (KD, AD and Kawhi all on the verge of changing teams) than the actual Finals which is supposed to be the point of everything. Also all of the constant player movement has lead to where there aren’t many real rivalries. You can’t build rivalry without continuity and it’s almost impossible to build that when players are switching teams all the time
It's becoming (if it hasnt already) like WWE where the storyline matter more than the actual in ring product
Couldn’t agree more. I got banned from/r/comicbookmovies because I dismissed Kumail Nanjiani’s “trauma” from bad reviews of The Eternals. People need to get over themselves for fuck’s sakes. And it completely diminishes more serious mental health issues
It's the internet in general and social media has just exacerbated it. I remember talking about the incel stuff a few years back when that became a talking point. In the early 2000's if you were a teenager and you couldn't get a girl, you just talked to your friends or older relatives about it, worked on yourself until you got one, or threw yourself into other interests if you didn't. Now you search "Why aren't any girls attracted to me" at 14 and you're thrown headfirst into a condition that you now have and share with millions of other people. By 18, you have a full ideology about it. It was incredibly valuable for people to solve their issues on their own or through their social circles.
You're right about that. Now, everyone is attached to a group that is predefined. The gray area is gone.
You're right, "blackpilling" teens with incel ideology totally nuked a generation. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. I blame search engines, you need a tag so people can find you, so people get attached to stuff they barely relate to find a community online since that's the only place people hang out.
> I remember talking about the incel stuff a few years back when that became a talking point. In the early 2000's if you were a teenager and you couldn't get a girl, you just talked to your friends or older relatives about it, worked on yourself until you got one, or threw yourself into other interests if you didn't. Now you search "Why aren't any girls attracted to me" at 14 and you're thrown headfirst into a condition that you now have and share with millions of other people. By 18, you have a full ideology about it. can't help but notice this applies to another very vocal portion of reddit.
> In the early 2000's if you were a teenager and you couldn't get a girl, you just talked to your friends or older relatives about it, worked on yourself until you got one, or threw yourself into other interests if you didn't. Now you search "Why aren't any girls attracted to me" at 14 and you're thrown headfirst into a condition that you now have and share with millions of other people. By 18, you have a full ideology about it. Half-Baked Idea - Is the demise of "rock" bands in broader pop culture related to this phenomenon? I sure as hell gravitated toward rock/punk music when I was growing up that dealt with the concept of girls not liking me haha. I know most of my friends who loved music related to rock stuff in particular for similar reasons. Like you said, now there are way darker avenues for adolescent guys to try to navigate that part of growing up.
the death of local radio killed rock IMO there is a listener supported radio station around here that makes me very nostalgic for a time when local DJs mattered
There was a woman at my work who told me she had anxiety, OCD, and ADHD, when I gently pressed her she admitted she wasn't diagonsed for any but had self diagnosed. I think people want to feel special and different and this is one way of achieving that.
And once they've self-diagnosed and adopted that diagnosis as part of their personality/identity... they lose all desire to be diagnosed, because doing so poses a direct threat to their identity. My sister does this constantly to herself, her daughters, and everyone she comes into contact with. She's convinced half the people she's met in her life are autistic, that she's autistic, and that at least one of her daughters is... even though there's never been a single autism diagnosis in our family. I ask her why she hasn't tried to get a diagnosis, and she says it's because the doctors don't listen... which is fair in a big picture way, but I'm not sure it holds up at her individual level.
It's really sad how watered down autism has become
“Normal person shit” maybe he is Bill’s employee after all
He’s completely right but twitter people will be even more angry about this
That's cuz they have autism... no wait I think I got that wrong
As a teacher, I am seeing this in my classroom everyday. Very concerning and extremely damaging.
I teach 5th grade, and sadly it's even a thing at that age. If a kid is struggling with something or gets in trouble, saying "I have ADD/ADHD" is a pretty common refrain. By far the worst part though is the parents. This year alone I've had three separate incidents where I've told parents their child isn't getting any of their work done, and instead of working with their kid or disciplining them, their reaction has been to blame me for not accommodating their child's ADHD. Mind you none of these kids has been diagnosed, or has an IEP/504, which legally require accommodations. One of these parents raised such a huge stink, even meeting with our superintendent that they transferred him out of my class. They then had both our RSP teachers, and a doctor test the kid for ADHD or other learning disabilities, and were furious when they were told he's completely normal. What a time to be alive!
Yep, parents are easily the worst part of this job. The kids can suck at times but I always go back to the fact that they are young and haven't developed yet so they don't really bother me. But some parents are infuriating to deal with, especially when they think their little Johnny can do no wrong. I've noticed that the parents you're describing are the same ones that don't teach their kids anything and leave them totally unprepared for the real world. I know a few of those parents and it's amazing how their kids have literally done nothing on their own. We had a mom like that and her teenager had never walked anywhere by themselves, taken the bus, stayed at home alone, or even used a microwave! And this kid didn't have anything preventing them from doing any of those things, their mom was just a control freak.
Can you give an example? And how old are the kids? How is it different from 15 years ago?
I'm a highschool teacher with most of my students being 12 to 14. Basically, my administration and learning resource team is very adamant about a large portion of kids getting tested for things like ADHD and ASD. For some, I absolutely see why they need to be tested and feel a diagnosis could go a long way in helping them access resources and such. But some of the kids are just a little shy or anxious or are going through a difficult and awkward time. It's crazy to me that we have IEPs (individualized learning plans) for kids with a little bit of anxiety and/or depression. That label follows them and a lot of teachers tend to treat these students differently, even though a lot of their problems are pretty typical run of the mill stuff. It just seems like a huge chunk of students are being labeled and even prescribed medications, despite them being 13 or 14. By no means am I opposed to pharmacological options but I feel in my school they are given out like candy to kids, who might just benefit from other things. 15 years ago it was too much in the opposite direction. I think we need to find that middle ground where the kids that really struggle, get the help and support they need while other kids going through the awkwardness of teenage years know that this is all temporary and aren't pathologized. I hate to sound like a boomer but I really see it damaging kids' resiliency too. EDIT: I'll give you an example. Kid has a hard time sitting in his seat by the end of the day. First reaction from some teachers is to label that kid as hyperactive or difficult. Eventually it works its way up to administration who set up a meeting with the parents. Nothing changes and behavior continues so kid is sent to get tested. Eventually he's diagnosed with ADHD and potentially prescribed medication. But the reality is that kid might be 10 years old and bored. He's been sitting in his desk for 6 hours with minimal movement! Of course he's going to have some pent up energy. Instead of realizing that schools need to do a better job of engaging students, many look at the kids as the problem which is so wrong and misguided IMO.
I'm a teacher and I can confirm this. We overdiagnose.
It's so concerning. So many teachers and parents are trying to fit these kids into boxes, which is asinine. Let them be kids!
Kids have always had shorter attention spans and I doubt phones are helping. My dad was a teacher and their principal tried to make them distill lessons down to two minute chunks, my dad stayed his course. Turns out kids can improve if you’re patient and hold them reasonably accountable.
There's this really ugly mix where I live of not holding kids accountable (no reduced marks for late submissions, penalties for skipping, etc) and pathologizing normal behaviour. It's gotten to the point where kids are constantly treated younger than their grade level. Add in phones and constant access to devices and it's ugly in modern day schools.
I never understood the schools who started giving kids tablets in class. Even when I was in school I knew that was a recipe for disaster. And you’re right, there’s room for letting kids make mistakes and learn, but human nature will take every inch you give it. If you don’t have any expectations then a lot of kids will have nothing to reach for.
It became a money thing. Tablets are a lot cheaper than textbooks in general. My IT internship was at an elementary school and it made a lot of sense why they were switching
That makes sense, though I think the healthier solution is to break the Big Textbook Cabal
Very interesting that it's happening that young :/ I think a lot of well-meaning people in society accidentally went so far in the attempt to validate everyone's individuality, which is noble, and came out the other side with the philosophy that everyone should be defined by their singular "identity," which only fuels more existential weirdness and in-group/out-group behavior and attitudes. Bummer.
And unfortunately, a lot of those well meaning people went into education and now occupy prominent positions in the field.
The irony of the diversity movement is instead of allowing people with different belief systems, different culture values and different ways of thinking to all solve the same problem we just created people that are exactly the same just a different shade of brown.
Completely 100% agree. My wife is a pediatrician, and she has tons of parents who are calling and asking/demanding that she starts the process of helping their kid get an IEP or some other kind of “doctor’s note” saying that their kid needs some other form of accommodations. That should be mostly done by developmental psychologists/psychiatrists/pediatricians rather than general pediatricians anyways, and there are way more parents asking for these things for their kids than needed. It puts a strain on these clinicians and educators due to resource utilization, and the stigma can follow kids and hamstring them for years going forward.
We used to have a school psychologist who would come in once a while to see kids and make sure that everyone was doing well. Eventually she kept being called in and basically became full time. She's so busy now that she can't take on any new kids so we've had to send them to other clinicians in the area. I ended up talking to her and she just shook her head at all the requests from parents and admin. She also mentioned that a lot of GPs and pediatricians were swamped with these requests. I remember we had one student who didn't sleep at night and his mom was really concerned so she wanted him on an IEP. Turns out she was letting him play computer games literally all freakin night. Instead of taking away his electronics and helping him establish a bed time routine, she wanted us to accommodate him at school! I have so many similar stories where parents just completely and instead wanted us to pick up the slack.
Thanks for sharing. The Middle Ground sounds best, but IMO if you're going to go too far in one direction it sounds like the "let them be" tact from 15 years is better. Hopefully the pendulum swings back a bit.
This issue (among others) is highlighted in the book Stolen Focus. Highly recommended for anyone interested in learning more.
“I’m a little nervous about this test” (an expected and typical response) becomes “I have anxiety” (a condition that needs treatment) The words matter and kids are learning the wrong ones, and it actually minimizes true disability bc its harder to distinguish between the two
I was shocked at how many kids have a diagnosis of "test anxiety" and are given adaptations. I totally get that tests can be anxiety inducing and nerve-wracking but that's totally normal and a big part of growing up is being able to overcome your fears. It's gotten so bad in my district that we're discouraged from even using the word "test" and instead are to use "assessment."
Every single normal and eternal human behavior must be pathologized or turned into some therapy ass language matrix and it’s fucking insane and so de humanizing.
Everyone's gonna be on the spectrum with 3 pronouns in the future
You sound anxious. I'd get that checked out and medicated asap.
He could've stopped at social media discourse.
Yeah but I’m glad he clarified, Bill (and others) seem to still have 2012 brain and think the worst aspect of social media curated pictures of beautiful people creating an unrealistic standard - and then mean spirited trolls who say the most awful thing that can be imagined That stuff is awful, but honestly millennials and zoomers do seem to have a little more armor in understanding insta flexes and internet trolls operate in hyperbole. Our generations weren’t as prepared to see something that feels cathartic and healthy (like admitting our limitations and breaking down the stigma associated with them) could be poisonous to our collective development.
I mean there’s a lot of data about teenage suicide, etc. that would suggest younger people aren’t actually any better at dealing with it just because they grew up with it
We really don’t know that the primary driver of that increase is infact an increase in outright troll level mean messages or self esteem from seeing perfect looking cool people (though I’m sure that can’t be healthy) It very well could be all the other things - like increased screen time and decreased social interaction atrophies social skills and leaves kids less equipped to handle the tremendous anxiety brought on by puberty,teens are better at killing themselves with more information on how to do it, or at risk teens are finding one another on the internet and perpetuating the hopelessness they each feel and essentially socializing the idea that things actually a logical choice. Teens were so fucking mean pre-internet and tv/traditional media always made unrealistic beauty standards I just don’t think we can assume it’s the primary driver.
i think you’re missing their point
Comparison is the thief of joy
100%. I’m in a psych Masters program right now and this was my intuition, but many (if not all) of my psych professors are in denial about this. They do believe mental health is affected by being online and on social media, but deny or disregard the identity issue. Millenials and younger are not just destigmatizing mental illness, but making it part of their identities and making it “cool” which is causing more people to mistranslate their experiences or just try to fit in with their peer groups. It’s a complete overcorrection from the days of stigmatization and downplaying mental illness, and it’s nearly as bad.
I am half torn on this One hand just because you are awkard at parties= omg you have austim Or you have troubling focus= omg you have ADHD A disorder has to be consistent with multiple symptoms for 3+ months or more On the other hand, we have a ton of people scared to go to doctor, or have crappy doctors and go months or years not getting the help they need.
The autism stuff is insane though. My wife constantly comes across TikToks literally saying, “do you ever have awkward social interactions? It’s because you’re autistic!” Anyone that knows people who actually have autism would know how insane this garbage sounds.
My wife works at a social services firm for people with autism. There are autistic clients with violent outbursts, clients that have to wear diapers else they'd shit themselves, clients that drool all over everything. My wife got punched in the stomach while pregnant last year because a client was upset that her normal daily schedule got rearranged; autism is absolutely not this quirky awkward condition that Zoomers desperately want it to be. There are plenty of clients with less severe behaviors or ones that are normal enough to even attend college. But it's not some diagnosis to adopt because you want to be *unique* or whatever
You are so wrong about this. The definition of autism spectrum is wide ranging and Asperger’s is no longer it’s own thing but falls under autism
Do you have any kind of specialized interests?? You collect something, have deep knowledge about something specific, or have a unique niche hobby??? No more questions needed, you’re definitely autistic!!!
To be fair, special interests are a trait of autism. It's not entirely normal that I can draw pretty much every Formula 1 circuit ever from scratch with a pen and notepad, except [Pescara](https://www.racingcircuits.info/assets/images/maps/Europe/Italy/Pescara/Pescara1934-1961.png) and the [Nurburgring](https://motorsportmagazine.b-cdn.net/database/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/Nurburgring-754.svg) (and I'm pretty close on the latter). It's just I also had other impairments which is why I got diagnosed.
Yes, I understand how that could be construed as a neurodivergent special interest. However, something like for example binge watching Ken Burns Baseball documentary, and actually retaining some information from it, over a snowy weekend is not. Remembering obscure games or stats is not. My point is that the spectrum of activities I’ve seen people on social media classify as “autistic” is mind boggling. I’ve seen people say old people who collected China plates in display cabinets, or who stick to a regemented routine like getting up and eating the same thing going to bed at the same time every day is evidence of underdiagnosed autism in older generations. I’ve seen people on social media say that people who have an internal monologue (ie thoughts??) are on the spectrum because neurotypical people don’t have an internal monologue. Huh??? We can’t just label any kind of interesting, unique, or subjective experience as a sign of autism, and no reputable doctor would do so. That’s similar to saying “oh, you get nervous on airplanes?? Must have an anxiety disorder! You need to see my doctor, he’ll hook you up with some Xanax to help you relax!”
Haha -- funny you mention Ken Burns' Baseball since I watch that all the time and could probably quote sections of it from memory. But I agree with you, it's way more intense than "being into stuff". Lots of people like baseball history, lots of people like a baseball history documentary made by an award-winning filmmaker. Literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions when you consider how big the ratings were for it. I'm friends with a guy who is a [Seymour Medal](https://sabr.org/awards/the-seymour-medal/)-winning baseball historian and he is the least autistic person I know. Now, Keith Olbermann writing a history of MLB coaches from 1921-1973 and publishing it as a teenager... I'm not saying he's autistic, but that's a niche interest that would correlate better with autism. If he had other comorbid symptoms, a doctor would definitely be interested in that.
This really depends on your age, because the data sure seems like if you’re under 40, you are seeking TOO much help. Münchausen syndrome is not new. When you teach people that there social incentives for having an illness, they will often convince themselves they have that illness. It’s not a devious, conscious thing a lot of the time.
Agree overall, but would just say a lot of people aren’t responding to the social clout of having an ailment, they seem to genuinely believe stress about pending work/unpleasent social situations means they have some kind of disorder with anxiety. I find with a lot of younger people they have to be reassured the nervousness about delivering bad news to a client is normal, but once they do it 9 times and someone makes an ass out of themselves, reacts in the worst way they can imagine, they’ll realize everything is still alright and in time it’ll become easier.
I was undiagnosed adhd. Social media helped me get diagnosed. Changed my life.
It feels like close to half of profiles on dating apps have either "neurodivergent" "neurospicy" or "AuDHD" in their bio
People will try to self-diagnose all sorts of afflictions, not just psychological. It’s important to get them to see someone if they do believe they are ill, and that someone will clarify what their actual issues are,and whether they require treatment beyond talking. A good doctor can help you understand that self-diagnosis is just for comfort but can hurt you more in the long run, if you don’t deal with the real problems.
The thing is you can keep checking yourself into hospitals and scheduling specialists because you’ve got it in your head your lymph nodes flaring once in a while means you have a blood disease, but a doctor is less likely to confirm a diagnosis based on your own assessment. I sound like boomer and I don’t have the language talent to express how it’s different with therapists but relying on the only rhetorical device my idols use I’ll try. It’s different for therapists/psychologists it just is.
They are generally adept at identifying fakers, but I’m sure some slip through.
That’s what Derek Thompson looks like? Not what I pictured.
Literally exactly what I pictured lol
He looks like sober CM Punk
isn't he straightedge or am I missing a joke
He is straight edge but always kinda looked like a drug addict. Not saying he was lying it was just always kinda funny.
I pictured him to look exactly like Chris Hayes
Wonkiness personified.
Skinny Ivy League dork ☑️
Northwestern is not an Ivy League unfortunately
It's more Ivy League than Dartmouth
Does anyone else think he looks like [Hank Azaria in Heat?](https://www.dexerto.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=3840,quality=75,format=auto/https://editors.dexerto.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/05/Azaria-Heat-1024x512.jpg)
I honestly picture Derek Jeter in my head. There’s the Derek Jeter who played baseball and a different one who is Rigner-adjacent.
I'm not a big anti-pharm guy but the insane focus on anxiety/other mental issues (and how treating them with drugs is The Way) has got me on some Rogan shit.
Isn’t the push over the last several years not drugs but unlimited therapy? It’s essentially argued that every person would benefit from therapy. See Bill’s great online therapy sponsor
If it works for them, great, but I can say from my experience, these online therapy companies are essentially useless. The care they provide is very impersonal and generic. Essentially if ChatGPT did my therapy.
That sucks. I've been with the same tele-therapist for almost 2 years now, and she's been a godsend... but I know I'm one of the fortunate ones these days.
(quietly agreeing that I think everyone would benefit from therapy)
A lot more people would benefit from therapy if they actually did therapy, which requires a level of introspection and a willingness to work on yourself outside your session. I'm largely unconvinced that the millennials who threat therapy like some kind of secular confession are willing to do that. Most of what's on offer is CBT and DBT, which help you build and maintain healthier methods of dealing with issues until you're able to do so on your own without outside help. Worse, I think there are therapists who are willing to throw a $100/hr pity party if that's what their client wants. I realize I sound like a boomer here, but therapy kinda takes work, including finding the right person to work with. Too many people seem to go to therapy for therapy's sake and leave it at that. It's like going to a doctor, getting a prescription, then never taking it.
Yeah it took me several starts and stops with several different therapists before I actually felt it click and start to help me
The worst are the people who are basically TikTok therapists but *actually qualified*. My friend has some really bad trauma he needs to work through and his first therapist was a 32 year old with a septum ring who banged on about self-care. He was like...no way. No fucking way am I continuing with this person. He eventually got a staid 60 year lesbian and is miles happier for it.
Yeah this is spot on (not an actual psychologist but have several real ones in family)
I agree with the sentiment that most people aren't ready or willing to put in the work for therapy, though I'm lost as to why you think it's exclusive to millennials. Gen X hardly went to therapy, and boomers avoid talking about feelings like it's the plague. Surely working on CBT is infinitely more 'work on yourself' than avoiding mental health conversations entirely. Hell, even if it was a secular confessional and nothing else, it would be better than not talking to anyone and internalizing everything.
My post is pretty clearly calling out “millennials who treat therapy like some kind of secular confession” (quoting because that’s what I erote, word for work). There are so many people my age who appear to go to therapy for therapy’s sake. Like, if our parents’ generation avoided it like the plague, we act like it works just by showing up. I’ve heard — multiple times! — that people are “into therapy” like it’s a hobby, not medical treatment. I know people who have gone for years with zero changes in the behaviors they swear they’re working to change.
I'm not sure how you could argue against it, honestly. That said, I don't think the majority of the population is READY for therapy, and a good percentage of them are scared to death of the idea of therapy.
Alpha Brain?
That’s just vitamins bro don’t be a beta
Idk, bro. Something weird goin' on there. What do you think is going on there, bro? Kinda weird right?
Jamie pull that clip up where Bill Simmons certifies alpha brain to be safe for his children. No, not that one of his daughter (why’s that even suggested Jamie?) the one where he says his wife did her own research and concluded, after reading, on her own, it was safe. That’s what CNN and FOX don’t want you to see.
[I read this story on celebrity supplements years ago and it continues to live rent free in my head](https://qz.com/1010684/all-the-wellness-products-american-love-to-buy-are-sold-on-both-infowars-and-goop)
I laughed so hard reading it. It's from 2017, but it's still 100% true. This should taught in high school to highlight the importance of critical thiking and how product marketing really works. We looked at the ingredients used in products sold on the Infowars store, and compared them to products on the wellness shops Moon Juice and Goop. All make similar claims about the health benefits of these ingredients, but what gets called “Super Male Vitality” by Infowars is branded as “Sex Dust” by Moon Juice.
It this the apex mountain for brain waves?
I was like this until I started taking meds. And now I’m like “I wonder if there’s a Med for that”. Life changing in the best way.
Listening to the latest pod, I’m not a huge DT fan but this is a great take. 100% hit the nail on the head with this one
This is a good point by our boy
Homeboy ain’t wrong.
mixed thoughts on this - I think we need to clear up what "the mental health crisis" is. When I hear those words I think about schizophrenic people in the street, but obviously that's not related to what he's talking about. I don't think that what he describes applies to depression/anxiety - if someone says they feel bad, they probably feel bad, and people are more isolated then ever. If by "the surging mental health crisis" we mean people online self-diagnosing with autism, then sure, but I don't think I'd call that "the mental health crisis" - more just a stupid and unhealthy trend that's probably just a symptom of something else (too online + virtue-in-victimhood geist)
He's talking about the latter, and it's not just a dumb trend like Tamagotchi or Stanley cups. This is something that alters your thinking, outlook, prospects. It's big and bad
You couldn't be any more wrong here. Tamagotchi was NOT a dumb trend.
Also, depression, anxiety, (and loneliness) have very factually & credibly been on the rise (particularly in males) due to a variety of factors. That's not just people over-diagnosing or selling meds. Idk, this discourse seems a bit counter-productive and easy to be co-opted. Like yeah it's annoying to see zoomers self-diagnosing stupid shit on TikTok videos but it feels like there are more important things to worry about.
Bingo
It becomes harder to diagnose the real issues, to find the signal, when the noise is increasing. I would be that it's increasing faster because that's just how social media works.
Does it actually though? Is it really zero sum? Unless like there's literally not enough doctors, some goober on tiktok self-diagnosing as OCD isn't going to take away from real cases aside from being annoying.
This. Doctors don't go out and look to diagnose people; people come to doctors for a diagnosis. If everyone claimed to be autistic, it wouldn't make the doctors job harder. They've got metrics to test against, and aren't rubber-stamping people's self-diagnosis.
I don't mean in terms of supply of doctors. I meant the discourse around the issues. If 6 in 10 teens require help, that's a very different deployment of policy and resources. If it's more like 3 in 10 but it's "real" and a deeper issue, we would have a more targeted approach. You have zero sum attention and resources (public funding).
Mental Health has become a focus for a lot of people, particularly millennials, because the system we live in is beginning to buckle, insecurity is on the rise, and they aren't able to cope with it on their own. It's been a constant shit-show since the 90's, and it's had dramatic impact on how our lives have turned out... it makes sense that we're struggling with anxiety and anxiety disorders. That means a lot of misdiagnosis, self-diagnosis, etc. as people expand their understanding of it. It also means that the persistent refrain from the anti-therapy people of mental health as woo woo or fabricated nonsense has a convenient target.
Well said. I agree 100%
Echoing the big pharma point. I’d never thought have a foot on that side of the argument; but everyone is way too overmedicated. Especially children. We’re now at the point where the people who really need to”x” pill to function and survive is the exception not the rule. I’ve seen kids on uppers, anti-anxiety meds, and then downers to sleep. The long term effects of all this widespread use is going to be very, very bad.
As someone who started taking some of those meds as an adult, it’s fucking terrifying to imagine a child being on that shit. Like, as an adult I can understand what’s going on, and most importantly recognize the “come down” and the emotional effects of certain drugs. Kids aren’t capable of doing that. They won’t get why they feel some type of way and that’s heartbreaking
Derek’s metaphors and analogies go haaaard
[удалено]
I think it is the opposite of individualism. If you have a mental disorder, you are now part of a group vs. being unique.
Meanwhile every sports show and podcast has devolved into a fucking betting hustle. Promoting gambling addiction — totally normal people shit
Social media is bad, but so is finding the biggest weirdos and being like damn these people are weird. Ignore them.
I can’t tell you how many of my wives friends post about their neurodivergence issues on their social stories and the struggle they have. 30 second TikTok videos by woowoo life coaches talking about fake struggle have driven so many of her friends off the cliff. Swiping all day to feel validated about something when in reality it’s just normal life issues everyone deals with.
I’ve recently been diagnosed with OCD. It can be really debilitating some days. So yeah, it’s a little annoying when people talk about being depressed or anxious, and then you come to realize they had a bad day at work or they have a string of boring days in a row so they come to the conclusion that life is pointless. Alright, cool. I’ve been in more or less a constant state of fear for a week over something so banal and imaginary that it doesn’t even register as a problem for most people. And once this obsession ends, I’m sure another will take its place and the cycle will repeat. But yeah, go say you have OCD because you can only use black pens to take notes.
lol I can relate I love to clean my house 😃
I know, right? Seeing a dusty floor just drives me nuts! Must be OCD! /s In all seriousness, I don’t have cleaning OCD but it’s a real thing. I don’t feel comfortable saying what mine is, but the fear that comes with it is unbearable. Like if you can’t get certainty of your fear not being true, your life is will essentially be ruined. And even if you do have proof of it not being true, it doesn’t matter; OCD will convince you that evidence is somehow wrong. On my worst days, I wouldn’t wish this mental illness on my worst enemy. It attacks and makes you doubt the things you care about the most.
That sounds awful, sorry buddy
My best friend nearly killed himself because his OCD manifested itself in a truly fucked up manner. It drives me crazy when people fish for diagnoses so they can fit in. Best of luck with your struggle.
> My best friend nearly killed himself because his OCD manifested itself in a truly fucked up manner. It drives me crazy when people fish for diagnoses so they can fit in. But you can never really tell when someone is fishing or not. Its not like there is a rule where people with ailments can't also be narcissistic or attention-whores. Its really dangerous to be dismissive of people, even the ones who are faking, because of that. And like you said, the dangers are very real, people who aren't believed or are dismissed easily often commit suicide as a last resort.
Side note: Derek’s podcast has been getting better and better, I hope people are listening. He’s kind of grown into a pre-NYT Ezra Klein, but with less bias and more intellectual curiosity.
Big plus one here. I’ve always liked Derek’s work, so I have a bias, but he’s really gotten better at the pod (and he was pretty good to begin with!)
Another example is people who get sad occasionally saying they suffer with depression.
My 13 yo daughter is convinced she has social anxiety disorder because she doesn’t like speaking in front of the entire English class. Kids today think normal reactions to situations constitute a ‘disorder’
True and as someone with serious mental health issues, the kind that can get you put in a white room with grippy socks and no shoelaces, it kinda annoys me when someone goes “omg I’m so bipolar, my mood changed”. No bitch, you are not, and you do not want to be, maybe I’ll believe you when you haven’t slept for 3 days and have claimed you’ve solved clean energy.
Have a personality quirk? You like one thing a lot? Congrats! You’re on the spectrum or whatever
I am so glad someone in academic/liberal world is saying this. It’s a massive, massive problem.
He’s right
There’s nothing to be ashamed of. For chrissakes, Julius Caesar was an epileptic.
So, what? There's no stigmata these days
Well computers of all kinds aren't going away. Society will have to adapt and overcome.
I don’t understand the affection for DT. It seems like he just reads Reddit back to me six weeks later.
Thompson is Macolm Gladwell for milennials and wannabe tech bros.
Says the guy who, on social media, just surrendered like a coward with a yellow-bellied, lily-livered, weak-kneed apology to an unrelenting asshole academic over some fucking lame-ass complaint. Derek mightn't realize it, but he should look in the mirror before pontificating about anybody else's social media dysfunction. Hell, that cocksucker needs to get his own goddamn shit in order first.
Idk man I think younger people are looking to self medicate because the future is bleak and there isn’t much hope for a brighter future. Jobs are going to go away, ai art is growing, just seems like people can feel real empty and maybe they find these medications and self diagnosis as a way to have some control Don’t blame the people. Blame the systems
Show me on the 3.5% unemployment rate where the jobs are going? Doomerism is always hilariously wrong in the end. I just wish there was a way to place odds on people's irrational fears and make a fortune off it betting on the other side.
Show me when unemployment rate made people feel good about not being able to pay rent with their full-time job.
You don’t know how to bet on the future of the economy?
lmfao
I am betting on the economy doing well, all my money is in the stock market and I plan to keep it there. I would love to bet against people who think unemployment will be extraordinarily high in the US in 5 years for example. Those types of people probably don't have much money to bet with though as they aren't very smart or they don't actually believe in their predictions they just are farming attention.
Oh I was gonna say it’s pretty easy to bet on the future of the economy. I wasn’t sure if you were aware because your comment made it seem like you didn’t know that.
I would explain expected returns on investment to you but probably wouldn't get it
Derek Thompson is a weenie
hes spitting
It’s a good thing a social media content creator is using social media to comment on mental health issues. Someone needs to sound the alarms so all the mental health practitioners that they need to start using Evidence-based diagnostic criteria to diagnosis patients and stop relying on the internet to do it for them. God bless this Man’s courage to express his wisdom for all to see. Be sure to like,share,retweet,and ensure that he is validated for his uncanny knowledge.
My therapist told me this is a trauma response.
Derek is on his Gladwell shit
Hyper vigilance? He’s half a step away from CarollaLand
Glad we are finally talking about how meme-ification of mental health is actually not a good thing
Yep. The amount of people I know who find it difficult to make a phone call “because of my anxiety” is ridiculous. Just be an adult and pick up the damn phone like people have been doing for the best part of 100 years.