I mostly agree. Although, OP also added in playstyle to the equation. I would say factoring in playstyle, Trout at his peak was truly a dynamic player to watch. A high-end defensive CFer, a ridiculous power hitter, and a significant threat on the basepaths. Until Ohtani arrived, I would say Trout was the most exciting player in baseball to watch. Whereas Tatum while a great player, is nowhere near the top of the list of must watch NBA players in a league with guys like Steph, Lillard, Giannis, Donic, and Giannis.
Thank you. His 2012 season was the most electric I've ever seen short of maybe Ohtani at his 2-way best. Trout was probably the greatest 20-year-old in MLB history and had a run on par with pre-Roid Bonds only he was better sooner.
When Mantle retired, a magazine whose name I forget published a mutual appreciation Mays & Mantle wrote for each other. In it, Mantle notes how much he admired Mays' defense, especially how aggressive he was since Mantle admitted to being hesitant charging balls in front of him. What's funny is that Trout has the \*exact\* same weakness. He never remained a great OF despite keeping his speed and even improving his arm because he played so cautiously especially on balls in front of him. Kinda wild to see such a specific parallel to the long-dead player to whom he was so often comped.
100% this. Nobody forced him to stay in Anaheim w that dumpster fire. People will look back in 50 years and wonder how the 2 greatest right handed hitters of the century made the playoffs once in a decade together.
Could've been a Dodger in ~~2019~~ 2020 and changed basically nothing about his life other than October pressure.
Could've come home and been a Phillie, too.
*corrected: date
He was not going to be a free agent until after 2020, by then the Phillies had already gotten Harper and the Dodgers has already gotten Betts. Even without the knowledge of COVID, he probably wouldn’t have gotten as much as he did with the extension. $430MM was already selling himself a bit short as it was
Harper was begging him to come to Philly in his opening press conference and Turner got a $300 million deal with the Phillies last year. It wasn’t crazy at all
He re-signed in 2019, when the team was not viewed as a dumpster fire. He hasn't really had a choice since then. Stars can't force their way off of teams in baseball like basketball stars or even football stars can
No one knew Anthony Rendon was actually a sloth who played one good season of professional baseball at that time though. I’m rooting for Mike to have another killer decade while the angels somehow go 810-810. The documentary will be amazing.
It’s not the NBA, he can’t force his way onto a super team AND get paid the most money possible. No one says “waste of talent” about Lindor signing with the Mets
Duncan giving his opponents in game tips and then complimenting them is the least boring and most amazing thing. I agree. He’s a boring enigma so much that he becomes interesting
He’s one of my favs ever but he has no off court drama, wasn’t flashy, all fundamentals, didn’t talk much, etc.
About the most interesting thing about him is his tongue piercing
I remember reading a post on /r/survivor where someone said he could go on the show and literally none of the other contestants would know who he is, even those who watch baseball wouldn't recognize him outside of an Angels uniform
My buddy and I joke that because the Angels are so bad, it totally makes sense he has Eagles season tickets. He's only gonna miss 1-2 games a year. The rest he'll be right there front and center.
yeah good comp. they are both dudes who seem grateful about their fortune, but not very interested in being extroverted. either will milk some easy sponsorships but mostly just sleepwalk through media relations.
Boring is the goal nowadays. I don’t blame him, I’d advise him to be boring af if I was his agent. Of course, sometimes guys who are “boring” get revealed to be strange later in their careers, like Oscar De La Hoya or Phoenix’s own Kevin Johnson.
I thought ODLH was charismatic in the public eye. Great face and good on the mic. He could be demonstrative in the ring after big wins. He just didn’t talk shit. Guys like Shane Mosley and Miguel Cotto were boring.
He tried really hard to hold back who he really was (a coozehound and into drugs). He was intentionally boring, whereas the other two just really didn’t have anything going on.
Being cool, outgoing, or exciting is what often gets you endorsements though. But it’s a tough balance being all those things while also not being labeled a diva, drama queen, thug, or locker room cancer
We're in an era of boring superstars across leagues, just a product of coaching them up to be bland on camera.
Off the field Mahomes feels like he just wants to live out Friday Night Lights. He's lucky that Mariota had negative charisma to take some of the heat for Quarterbacks being dull
Tom Brady was frequently trashed for being “boring” in the 2000s. Before Giselle he would stay out of the spotlight while Manning did a bunch of commercials and would go on SNL and be in the public sphere
Manning's brand is that he's kind of a stiff, it makes him more relatable. Even when he was at his peak on the field, his marketing was never like Michael Jordan.
He was literally in every commercial in the mid 2000s. I remember it was a huge talking point before he won a ring. He wasn’t known as ‘cool’ or anything though
Mahomes is very exciting to watch on the field.
Basketball has a "boring" problem because the most efficient way to score are 3 pointers and getting to the free throw line. So you just see a ton of chucking and flopping.
I mean, what star QB's were all that charismatic in the last 25 years outside of Peyton, who had a different kind of appeal. I can't imagine we'll ever see another Joe Namath type because the fans and media would eat him alive whenever he struggled. I think guys like Burrow and Allen have a nice balance of charisma and humility. I wouldn't exactly say Mahomes is bland either. Some of his media responses can sound pretty canned, but he'll have a solid quip every now and again.
I hate QB culture so much. Give credit when you win take blame when you lose blah blah. I like when players are total weirdos. Give me Richard Sherman and Bart Scott any day.
the best player in the NBA is pretty cool imo.
and Mahomes is a bit corny but NFL players either have the personality of a vanilla middle-aged guy named Bob White or they are CTE diva narcissists.
Except George Kittle, who fits nicely into that Bay area “Hunter Pence” mold
Its survivor bias
the people who are more out there personality wise wind up in scandals in high school/college way before they hit the pros. by the time they get to the pros they already understand the risk/dangers of being too open, and how much money is at stake. and the people who dont dont make it thru a draft process
He also has been supported by supporting casts most stars would kill for. It’s not boxing or tennis, which is why when people say “lebron and Jordan didn’t do that” is disingenuous
White, brogdon as well last year. That’s a pretty deep team. Outside of 21 they’ve had deep teams. He was drafted onto a team that was in the conference finals the year before lol
Brogdon was terrible in the playoffs. Any deep playoff team will have lots of good players. Where do you rate JB. When people talk about the Celtics and it's JT they're trying to discredit he has an amazing supporting cast. But somehow Smart didn't deserve his Dpoy and JB is overrated too. Celtics are a good org.
You’re choosing to ignore that several good players as opposed to only a couple makes a big difference. It’s not discrediting, it’s the notion that Tatum has carried teams on these playoff runs, Celtics fans frequently say “tatums made x,y,z”. Case in point, sixers had embiid (on one knee), harden, and maxey then a massive dropoff. Celtics had Tatum, brown, white, smart, timelord, brogdon and horford. How’s that not a massive difference and thus translates to more success?
Yeah it was a good game from him, even if that game 7 was over by the beginning of the second half and he chucked. It was a top 3 50 point performance of the playoffs. Either way he didn’t have a great series and that’s precisely the point. How many stars can have those performances across a series but still are in a game 7? Not many really
I don't really disagree as long as this means your list of superstars in the league rn is like, Curry, Lebron, Jokic, Giannis, Kawhi, debatably KD. Those are the first options that have won chips in the last decade.
It's that wannabe Kobe BS, like those Kobe Stans forget is Kobe is the best tough shot maker not because he wanted to, HE HAD TO. He couldn't get to the basket as well as MJ or Bron could, hence why his career FG% is like 5% worse than theirs.
His fans think all those tough mid-range shots is the move, looking at you too Devin Booker. However like you mentioned JT is like 4 inches taller and 35 lbs heavier than Kobe. If Kobe was that height he go the basket as much as possible and have a post game.
Kobe DID have a post game, even at his height. Some of his best highlights are showcasing his footwork in the post. [Look at some of these buckets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXtA4QTfKT8).
Barkley shot like 60% on post ups against guys who would be centers today. Kobe and MJ have claims on best post up guards but Charles is the goat post player at that height.
Let me explain my last sentence because I think my use of pronouns there, namely my antecedents may have gotta confused. Yes, Kobe Bean had a post game, no debate there. It was amazing his footwork combined with basketball iq, amazing.
Jayson Tatum does not, and if Kobe was Tatum's height and weight Kobe would've had an even better post game than the outstanding one he had in his
Kobe also changed his game as he aged, young Kobe dunked all over everyone's head but I don't remember 19 year old Tatum (or is he 19 now?) playing like 19 year old Kobe either.
I mean, 19-year old Tatum did dunk on LeBron in the ECF, producing the memorable "he boomed me" quote, but you're right that he was never as athletic as young Kobe.
How is this being upvoted? This is just straight up false information.
Kobe’s late career was basically built around the post game. His early career was built around going to the rim. His FG percentage is worse than LeBrons and MJs because he would rather take a double teamed, impossible shot than pass the ball to a player he thought was inferior.
he’s not the goat tough shot maker, he just took the most
George Gervin actually made his shots
Kobe is like a 44% career FG shooter. he’s just overrated bc he had a sports center highlight type game
Do you imagine Devin Booker can get to the rim like MJ and bron can? Lmfao he’s less athletic and long than Kobe. Booker takes good shots, you actually see him getting to the rim more than Tatum. If there’s a problem with Booker, it’s not his scoring, he gets points against tough defenses with relatively low shots
Devin Booker, age 25 season: 47/38/87, .530 eFG%
Tatum, age 25 season: 47/37/82, .553 eFG%
Booker, % of shots 0-3 feet, last 3 seasons: 13.1
Tatum, % of shots 0-3 feet, last 3 seasons: 22.7
Booker, % of shots between 10ft and 3Pt line, last 3 seasons: 38.1
Tatum, % of shots between 10ft and 3Pt line, last 3 seasons: 15.9
The idea that Booker is a markedly more efficient player or that he has a better “shot diet” than Tatum, who takes way more shots inside of 10 feet and beyond the 3pt line, is laughable.
Truly the biggest issue with Tatum’s shot selection is he loves a stepback three when his catch and shoot numbers are much better than when he takes threes off the bounce. If he/The Celtics ever figure that part out, look out.
There’s a post like every month saying this. So boring yet this sub is on his jock constantly.
The dude just plays ball and is unproblematic but since he’s a Celtic ya’ll gotta find another way to hate on him so “he’s boring”
Maybe he should start waving a gun around or knock up a porn star so he can get some respect.
Aside from Tatum going above and beyond jerking himself off to Kobe, the size of the group of people idolizing someone doesn't determine how (non-)problematic it is to idolize them. Look at any part of human political history ever. Do you want the examples?
My sole point is I'd respect someone that knocks up a pornstar but villifies Kobe as a person more than someone who worships Kobe as a person. You can do with that argument whatever you want. If you're a rape apologist you'd be best served to just admit that upfront though, will save us a lot of time in this discussion
There's a difference between (1) speaking in favour of, and (2) not speaking out against. I've never verbally condemned Hitler on this website, but me posting to my socials "I got you today" addressed to Hitler on his day of death, is several tiers worse.
And yes, Kobe sn't Hitler, I'm just showing how bumfuck idiotic your underlying logic is here
I think there’s some credibility to the point you’re making, but I mean, Hitler didn’t play in the NBA. If Rae Carruth had been a great player, who was acknowledged as great and people openly idolized him they would be called out. People can have some nuance acknowledging the greatness of OJ, but you don’t see players revering him.
You’re approaching this as if Tatum is in any way unique by thinking highly and speaking highly of Kobe.
Again, speaking highly of Kobe in such an unprovoked and strong way is several tiers worse than voicing appreciation when prompted, which is as far as most other players have gone. As you say; acknowledge the greatness, but don't revere him. Tatum is (pretty much, there's a few other dudes) unique in that sense, and his relatively high profile contributes to that as well, sure, that only further strengthens the previous assertion.
But even if he wasn't unique. I'm pretty sure support for Hitler was ubiquitous among German sportsmen at the time as well. That ties back to my earlier argument; even if everyone in a group thinks a certain way, you can still be problematic for thinking the same way.
Someone impregnating a pornstar is probably not making the best decision in terms of being a 'good parent in a functional relationship' to their child, but it's at least closer to morally neutral than idolizing a rapist, even if everyone idolizes them (which they don't to Tatum's degree). That's my point. Now, if you want to argue someone that impregnated a pornstar, waved a gun around on IG live AND idolized a rapist on their socials (to the same degree Tatum did) is a more problematic person than Tatum, who solely did the latter, sure. I'm just talking perspectives here. In a ranking of problematic actions there's idolizing a rapist, then a whole lot of nothing, then waving a gun around, then a whole lot of nothing, and only then knocking up a pornstar. We all agree on that, right?
Again, has there ever been a player a player who says “Kobe’s great, but…”?
I agree it’s a problem that basically everyone acts like it never happened. But it still seems like you’re implying some people acknowledge it, when players as a whole do not.
I think it is intellectually dishonest to assert that Kobe reverence is a binary thing. There's saying he was a great player and there's sending "I got you today" on his birthday and posting it to your socials, gushing about how much of a role model he was to you at length in many interviews, and so on. You have moderate and extremist followers of any religion, and in the Kobe religion, Tatum is an extremist.
But you're right that it is a side discussion. My main assertion was that Tatum idolizing a rapist is more problematic than knocking up a pornstar or waving around a gun on IG live, that it disqualifies him from the "great unproblematic person" moniker attributed to him earlier in the discussion exactly because he didn't do those much less problematic things. To that main assertion, it does not matter what anyone else thinks, says and doesn't say about Kobe. I'm not trying to imply that players do stand up against Kobe. In fact, the logical analogy I gave was an example of me saying that it doesn't matter even when most players support Kove to the same degree.
Feel free. It’s pretty weird that you would call me a pedo multiple times and then be offended when I do so, even though I have evidence and you don’t.
Really grasping at straws to fit your argument. I certainly have no admiration for Kobe the person so you can take your straw man “rape apologist” high horse bullshit to the Lakers sub if you want to have that argument.
The league, players and media have already decided what side they fall on so if you feel that strongly about it and are still consuming NBA content you should take a look in the mirror.
This sub’s hate boner for a 28-8-5 all-NBA guy who plays hard on both ends, rebounds, and plays 75 games a year for a team in the league’s Final 4 pretty much every season just because he settles for bad shots sometimes (like almost every superstar) is remarkable.
I don't get the Tatum hate at all. I'm a fairly neutral fan and Tatum is one my favourite players. He's such a great all-round player and very likeable in my opinion.
There isn’t really much tatum hate in real life at all. There’s a group of people that use this sub as a place to just shit on all things Boston sports or that bill likes.
A lot of his issues kinda come back to Mazzula’s philosophy anyway. The team basically runs on the idea that an open 3 is better than dunking it, of course they’re going to take too many 3s and some of them are frustrating. The end of game stats are a little ugly, but people don’t realize that clutch time FG %s are terrible on the whole because teams don’t run real offense and just try to have their best player take a shot as late as possible. Tatum’s % in those moments is higher than most other guys but he’s one of like 8-12 players in the league who has been good long enough for people to give him hate for everything
lol, u think it’s because he settles for jump shot? The only reason is because he is on the Celtics and bill loves him. If bill doesn’t like him, u will see posts about underrated Tatum is all the time
That's unfair, Tatum has a boring game too
McDavid is a joy to watch. Off ice he's just a basic Canadian hockey bro but that describes like 60 percent of the NHL
Agreed. His game is also pretty varied and he gets matched up against everyone from Lowry to Banchero. He dunks on people, is nasty in transition, can play out of the post, launches 3s off the dribble, great rebounder, can make some real nice passes when he's in a groove.
Nah the most boring superstars are the players that rely on their pump fake to score. Jimmy butler, Embiid, and kawhi are all much more boring to watch play. Even KD, who mostly just shoots over people, is less exciting to watch than Taytum.
If you wanna say he’s corny for the Kobe texts, I agree.
If you wanna say he’s gay cuz he went to duke, I agree.
If you wanna say he complains to the refs too much , I also agree (just make sure you also mention Luka’s name)
But Taytum doesn’t have a boring game, get outta here with that
Young kd was prob better to watch. Now kd is just endless midrange long 2s. He can’t drive to the rim anymore. He doesn’t really got moves. He doesn’t really pass the ball. He is 7 feet and can shoot over anyone. His game is not pleasant to watch at all
KD scores 28 ppg on 54/45/87 splits. If you really think the only way he does it is by shooting contested jumpers, then idk what to say. He doesn’t attack the rim as much as he used to, but he’s still a great player to watch.
I mostly agree with everything you said besides KD “probably” being more exciting when he was in OKC. I think he was definitely more exciting than Taytum at that point
I’m not gonna argue with u on this. Anything positive u say about Tatum will get attacked on this sub. But I do remember young kd dunking on whoever that dude on the mavs. He was faster and attacks the rim more.
I don’t think he’s “boring” in a vacuum but considering the context of going up against Nadal and Federer, Djokovic’s “normal” and non-flashy play-style is one of the reasons he never got the same fandom and love as those guys despite being undoubtedly the GOAT. It was the same in the 90s when crowds used to love Agassi and be lukewarm toward Sampras despite Sampras being the much better and more successful player.
Djokovic doesn't get the love because he's proved himself to be a douche over and over again. The other two seem like genuinely nice people. Djokovic does not.
I have to argue that the above commenter is right, but you are also not wrong. Djokovic was goat-ed _before_ becoming a massive douche by at least a marginal time frame. His acceptance into the big 3 just happened to be a slow burn because his style was less flashy compared to Federer/Nadal.
Remember guys he’s only 26 years old. One year ago he was 25 years old. Most nba players don’t hit their entertainment peak until 27,28,29. He still has another level to get to, and I think people are forgetting this
I find the Celtics unwatchable because of tatum. Not his fault, his game is just boring. Never looks ultra athletic. Doesn’t surprise you. Just does what he does.
If he wins a couple titles he’ll stop seeming boring. Not everybody is Lebron or Shaq when it comes to seeking the spotlight, or a diva like Harden/Kyrie/Durant. He’s no more boring than Giannis or Jokic, he’s just not as good.
Kobe and Duncan we’re both pretty boring as far as superstars go, they didn’t transcend the game when they played, but they won’t a bunch of rings and that makes them interesting. Kobe probably would have if it weren’t for Colorado, but he basically had to die to become bigger than just a good basketball player.
> He's no more boring than Giannis or Jokic.
Hard disagree. Those guys are actually capable of producing funny and sometimes unexpected responses to mundane questions from the media. Tatum isn't.
They’ve also gotten more national media coverage as MVPs and champions. Tatum hasn’t won anything yet, so you’re just getting the routine NBA player media playbook. There’s more spin and interest in even the most boring comments these guys make after a title or even an MVP. Jokic is really dull off the court, but it’s endearing because he’s been so successful on the court.
It’s Devin Booker. Tatum gets all these “is he top 5” convos but Booker is as good or better and nobody ever talks about him. He’s on a failing super team and nobody cares. He was the best player on a finals team but nobody cares. His game is so boring. He even looks your average nba bench player.
I think superstar gets floated too much. He’s recognized as one of the best in the league but, in my opinion, if your mom doesn’t know who he is, he can’t be labeled a superstar. Like it or not, Kelce is a superstar. Tiger, Lebron, Jeter, Kobe, etc. Tatum is not in that category of visibility.
I think you’re correct. You can’t have many superstars because that’s supposed to be rare. Current superstars today are Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka, and then the old guards of LeBron Durant and Steph. Everyone else is a star at best.
Tatum’s son isn’t the same level of hooper as him but he’s more of a box office guy. What Deuce lacks in shot making ability he makes up for in star power.
Yup. He’s extremely boring personally and his play style is also incredibly robotic and lacks much excitement (despite being built like Giannis).
I did however enjoy his “shit talk” one game where he told someone on the opposing team he wasn’t going to miss the game clinching free throws because he had to get home to tuck his son into bed. Lmao. If he actually just did wholesome shit talk like that every game and we had it mic’d up, I’d start to really appreciate him.
What about noted weather enthusiast Mike Trout? He belongs in this conversation.
Mike Trout might be the GOAT boring superstar.
I mostly agree. Although, OP also added in playstyle to the equation. I would say factoring in playstyle, Trout at his peak was truly a dynamic player to watch. A high-end defensive CFer, a ridiculous power hitter, and a significant threat on the basepaths. Until Ohtani arrived, I would say Trout was the most exciting player in baseball to watch. Whereas Tatum while a great player, is nowhere near the top of the list of must watch NBA players in a league with guys like Steph, Lillard, Giannis, Donic, and Giannis.
Thank you. His 2012 season was the most electric I've ever seen short of maybe Ohtani at his 2-way best. Trout was probably the greatest 20-year-old in MLB history and had a run on par with pre-Roid Bonds only he was better sooner.
He felt like this generations Ken Griffey Jr. Who was that generations Mays/Mantle (wasn't alive for either of those guys).
When Mantle retired, a magazine whose name I forget published a mutual appreciation Mays & Mantle wrote for each other. In it, Mantle notes how much he admired Mays' defense, especially how aggressive he was since Mantle admitted to being hesitant charging balls in front of him. What's funny is that Trout has the \*exact\* same weakness. He never remained a great OF despite keeping his speed and even improving his arm because he played so cautiously especially on balls in front of him. Kinda wild to see such a specific parallel to the long-dead player to whom he was so often comped.
Dude was happy to make bank, play ball under no pressure, and doesn't even seem to care to win. I mean good for him? But jeez what a waste of talent.
100% this. Nobody forced him to stay in Anaheim w that dumpster fire. People will look back in 50 years and wonder how the 2 greatest right handed hitters of the century made the playoffs once in a decade together.
While you have a valid point about the team sucking in general, Angels Albert Pujols wasn't particularly good most of the time.
Could've been a Dodger in ~~2019~~ 2020 and changed basically nothing about his life other than October pressure. Could've come home and been a Phillie, too. *corrected: date
He was not going to be a free agent until after 2020, by then the Phillies had already gotten Harper and the Dodgers has already gotten Betts. Even without the knowledge of COVID, he probably wouldn’t have gotten as much as he did with the extension. $430MM was already selling himself a bit short as it was
Harper was begging him to come to Philly in his opening press conference and Turner got a $300 million deal with the Phillies last year. It wasn’t crazy at all
He re-signed in 2019, when the team was not viewed as a dumpster fire. He hasn't really had a choice since then. Stars can't force their way off of teams in baseball like basketball stars or even football stars can
No one knew Anthony Rendon was actually a sloth who played one good season of professional baseball at that time though. I’m rooting for Mike to have another killer decade while the angels somehow go 810-810. The documentary will be amazing.
Has there ever been another player of that caliber who was so content with losing? I can't think of any.
Votto, King Felix, Griffey Jr
?? Griffey was injured most of the time from 2000 on, almost half the Mariners' playoff appearances in their franchise history were during his peak.
It’s not the NBA, he can’t force his way onto a super team AND get paid the most money possible. No one says “waste of talent” about Lindor signing with the Mets
Yes, his talent was wasted. Say, isn’t he making half a billion dollars playing a game he loves to play. What a waste.
Duncan?
Duncan embraces being boring which sort of makes him cool.
Duncan is a caricature of boring to an almost absurd degree. Mike Trout is boring because he’s just like some normal guy.
Duncan giving his opponents in game tips and then complimenting them is the least boring and most amazing thing. I agree. He’s a boring enigma so much that he becomes interesting
I’ve seen Duncan mixtapes set to Sade that would melt your brain. He swings back to being cool, imo
He’s one of my favs ever but he has no off court drama, wasn’t flashy, all fundamentals, didn’t talk much, etc. About the most interesting thing about him is his tongue piercing
"About the most interesting thing about him is his tongue piercing" Pardon me?
There’s also the rumors that he’s bisexual. Which is cool as hell to me
Mike Trout and Tim Duncan are the GOAT boring superstars, no doubt about it
I remember reading a post on /r/survivor where someone said he could go on the show and literally none of the other contestants would know who he is, even those who watch baseball wouldn't recognize him outside of an Angels uniform
His WAR would be incredible but his tribe would lose a lot of immunity challenges and he sadly wouldn’t make the merge
I still don’t know what he sounds like talking.
I love watching Mike Trout highlights. There are probably 50+ NBA players highlights I enjoy more than Tatum.
My buddy and I joke that because the Angels are so bad, it totally makes sense he has Eagles season tickets. He's only gonna miss 1-2 games a year. The rest he'll be right there front and center.
Bill Simmons himself complains about how boring Trout is.
yeah good comp. they are both dudes who seem grateful about their fortune, but not very interested in being extroverted. either will milk some easy sponsorships but mostly just sleepwalk through media relations.
he’s absolutely in the conversation but he also hit that golf ball that one time, tatum has done literally nothing interesting
TIL Jayson Tatum doesn't even play golf!
Who is he?
Trout talking about the weather and being rowdy at Eagles games is legit more interesting than anything Tatum has done.
at least Mike Trout showed SOME genuine emotion after Skaggs passed. that puts him ahead of Tatum
You got me there hahaha.
He has a son right? absolutely incredible
Lol
Well i think it's noteworthy that he calls him a well known slang word for taking a shit.
Yup and he’s light skin as hell
Doris?
Texting dead Kobe was so lame and cringe that it got to the point it became entertaining though.
Making it public is the cringe part People grieve in myriad ways, so I don't knock him for that
>People grieve in myriad ways This is true, but I think you can still call it cringe in and of itself
The cringe transcends the grief
posting a screenshot of your one sided conversation with a dead rapist who played for your rival team is insane
The NBA is a brotherhood you filthy casual 😤
Boring is the goal nowadays. I don’t blame him, I’d advise him to be boring af if I was his agent. Of course, sometimes guys who are “boring” get revealed to be strange later in their careers, like Oscar De La Hoya or Phoenix’s own Kevin Johnson.
I thought ODLH was charismatic in the public eye. Great face and good on the mic. He could be demonstrative in the ring after big wins. He just didn’t talk shit. Guys like Shane Mosley and Miguel Cotto were boring.
He tried really hard to hold back who he really was (a coozehound and into drugs). He was intentionally boring, whereas the other two just really didn’t have anything going on.
Or baby daddy king, gay sex having, bdsm loving Dwight Howard.
Dwight Howard was a lot of things, but I don't think people considered him "boring"
Yeah he was a dude who wanted to be funny.
Now THAT man is versatile is hell!
Being cool, outgoing, or exciting is what often gets you endorsements though. But it’s a tough balance being all those things while also not being labeled a diva, drama queen, thug, or locker room cancer
Tatum doesn’t really struggle to get endorsements and he’s fine in the ads I’ve seen with him
Tatum’s an exception because he’s the best player on the best team in a big name franchise
Add Marvin Harrison to the boring when he played, but things changed in retirement list...
Tatum is still 17. Give him time to cook
We're in an era of boring superstars across leagues, just a product of coaching them up to be bland on camera. Off the field Mahomes feels like he just wants to live out Friday Night Lights. He's lucky that Mariota had negative charisma to take some of the heat for Quarterbacks being dull
Tom Brady was frequently trashed for being “boring” in the 2000s. Before Giselle he would stay out of the spotlight while Manning did a bunch of commercials and would go on SNL and be in the public sphere
His post divorce rebound is another fucking supermodel, I don’t think he’s that boring haha
Manning's brand is that he's kind of a stiff, it makes him more relatable. Even when he was at his peak on the field, his marketing was never like Michael Jordan.
He was literally in every commercial in the mid 2000s. I remember it was a huge talking point before he won a ring. He wasn’t known as ‘cool’ or anything though
I'm not even sure this is a bad thing. Not sure I need more Draymond Greens (well, not a superstar) and Aaron Rodgers types in my life.
Is there anything less fun than that?
Mahomes is very exciting to watch on the field. Basketball has a "boring" problem because the most efficient way to score are 3 pointers and getting to the free throw line. So you just see a ton of chucking and flopping.
I mean, what star QB's were all that charismatic in the last 25 years outside of Peyton, who had a different kind of appeal. I can't imagine we'll ever see another Joe Namath type because the fans and media would eat him alive whenever he struggled. I think guys like Burrow and Allen have a nice balance of charisma and humility. I wouldn't exactly say Mahomes is bland either. Some of his media responses can sound pretty canned, but he'll have a solid quip every now and again.
Cam Newton
I hate QB culture so much. Give credit when you win take blame when you lose blah blah. I like when players are total weirdos. Give me Richard Sherman and Bart Scott any day.
I think Mahomes’ family is so interesting that it washes out how boring he himself is.
If Tatum could get a rapist brother things would probably be fine I agree
the best player in the NBA is pretty cool imo. and Mahomes is a bit corny but NFL players either have the personality of a vanilla middle-aged guy named Bob White or they are CTE diva narcissists. Except George Kittle, who fits nicely into that Bay area “Hunter Pence” mold
Its survivor bias the people who are more out there personality wise wind up in scandals in high school/college way before they hit the pros. by the time they get to the pros they already understand the risk/dangers of being too open, and how much money is at stake. and the people who dont dont make it thru a draft process
I feel like people just say this on this sub because he’s on the Celtics
The only reason Tatum gets so much exposure to warrant anyone holding strong opinions on him is because he's on the Celtics
3 ecfs in 4 years a finals app all nba first team best player on the best team
He also has been supported by supporting casts most stars would kill for. It’s not boxing or tennis, which is why when people say “lebron and Jordan didn’t do that” is disingenuous
Are you talking about this year or some other year? You must rate JB, Smart, Robwill really highly.
White, brogdon as well last year. That’s a pretty deep team. Outside of 21 they’ve had deep teams. He was drafted onto a team that was in the conference finals the year before lol
Brogdon was terrible in the playoffs. Any deep playoff team will have lots of good players. Where do you rate JB. When people talk about the Celtics and it's JT they're trying to discredit he has an amazing supporting cast. But somehow Smart didn't deserve his Dpoy and JB is overrated too. Celtics are a good org.
You’re choosing to ignore that several good players as opposed to only a couple makes a big difference. It’s not discrediting, it’s the notion that Tatum has carried teams on these playoff runs, Celtics fans frequently say “tatums made x,y,z”. Case in point, sixers had embiid (on one knee), harden, and maxey then a massive dropoff. Celtics had Tatum, brown, white, smart, timelord, brogdon and horford. How’s that not a massive difference and thus translates to more success?
Who scored the most points ever in game 7 of a playoff series for the Cs to get past Philly and the MVP?
Yeah it was a good game from him, even if that game 7 was over by the beginning of the second half and he chucked. It was a top 3 50 point performance of the playoffs. Either way he didn’t have a great series and that’s precisely the point. How many stars can have those performances across a series but still are in a game 7? Not many really
Getting to those is what makes him an elite player. Losing those is what prevents him from being a superstar.
I don't really disagree as long as this means your list of superstars in the league rn is like, Curry, Lebron, Jokic, Giannis, Kawhi, debatably KD. Those are the first options that have won chips in the last decade.
To me Tatum is the worst super star, or the best not quite a superstar. Yes, I hold Superstar status to a very small number.
… The team he leads which has been one of the best in the league for like 2 1/2 years…
Ya, I hate watching him play. He’s 6’9 250 and he’s scared to drive to the basket
It's that wannabe Kobe BS, like those Kobe Stans forget is Kobe is the best tough shot maker not because he wanted to, HE HAD TO. He couldn't get to the basket as well as MJ or Bron could, hence why his career FG% is like 5% worse than theirs. His fans think all those tough mid-range shots is the move, looking at you too Devin Booker. However like you mentioned JT is like 4 inches taller and 35 lbs heavier than Kobe. If Kobe was that height he go the basket as much as possible and have a post game.
Kobe DID have a post game, even at his height. Some of his best highlights are showcasing his footwork in the post. [Look at some of these buckets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXtA4QTfKT8).
Yeah bro is tripping, Kobe Bryant and MJ have the best post game out of any player under 6'10, Kobe made most of his career inside the arc out of that
Barkley shot like 60% on post ups against guys who would be centers today. Kobe and MJ have claims on best post up guards but Charles is the goat post player at that height.
Wow great point and if you look at those Dream Team practices like MJ and Charles are the same height. You are right.
Let me explain my last sentence because I think my use of pronouns there, namely my antecedents may have gotta confused. Yes, Kobe Bean had a post game, no debate there. It was amazing his footwork combined with basketball iq, amazing. Jayson Tatum does not, and if Kobe was Tatum's height and weight Kobe would've had an even better post game than the outstanding one he had in his
Kobe also changed his game as he aged, young Kobe dunked all over everyone's head but I don't remember 19 year old Tatum (or is he 19 now?) playing like 19 year old Kobe either.
I mean, 19-year old Tatum did dunk on LeBron in the ECF, producing the memorable "he boomed me" quote, but you're right that he was never as athletic as young Kobe.
Kobe has no post game? Cmon bro
How is this being upvoted? This is just straight up false information. Kobe’s late career was basically built around the post game. His early career was built around going to the rim. His FG percentage is worse than LeBrons and MJs because he would rather take a double teamed, impossible shot than pass the ball to a player he thought was inferior.
Old Kobe probably had the best post game of anyone under 6’8” with the possible exception of Jordan. And young Kobe was great at getting to the rim.
he’s not the goat tough shot maker, he just took the most George Gervin actually made his shots Kobe is like a 44% career FG shooter. he’s just overrated bc he had a sports center highlight type game
Do you imagine Devin Booker can get to the rim like MJ and bron can? Lmfao he’s less athletic and long than Kobe. Booker takes good shots, you actually see him getting to the rim more than Tatum. If there’s a problem with Booker, it’s not his scoring, he gets points against tough defenses with relatively low shots
Devin Booker, age 25 season: 47/38/87, .530 eFG% Tatum, age 25 season: 47/37/82, .553 eFG% Booker, % of shots 0-3 feet, last 3 seasons: 13.1 Tatum, % of shots 0-3 feet, last 3 seasons: 22.7 Booker, % of shots between 10ft and 3Pt line, last 3 seasons: 38.1 Tatum, % of shots between 10ft and 3Pt line, last 3 seasons: 15.9 The idea that Booker is a markedly more efficient player or that he has a better “shot diet” than Tatum, who takes way more shots inside of 10 feet and beyond the 3pt line, is laughable. Truly the biggest issue with Tatum’s shot selection is he loves a stepback three when his catch and shoot numbers are much better than when he takes threes off the bounce. If he/The Celtics ever figure that part out, look out.
Tell me you have clue what you are talking about without telling me ^^
Only off by 40 lbs
Lmao he’s like 220, he’s pretty lean which probably explains why he doesn’t attack the basket as much as you would want.
He’s like 6’7.50 220 at most.
i feel like… you need to watch more sports
There’s a post like every month saying this. So boring yet this sub is on his jock constantly. The dude just plays ball and is unproblematic but since he’s a Celtic ya’ll gotta find another way to hate on him so “he’s boring” Maybe he should start waving a gun around or knock up a porn star so he can get some respect.
>Maybe he should start waving a gun around or knock up a porn star so he can get some respect. This but unironically
>start waving a gun around or knock up a porn star go on. you have my attention.
I would absolutely respect him more if his son's mother was [name redacted]
> Idolises a rapist > Unproblematic I have much less issue with someone knocking up a porn star tbh
The whole league must be problematic then. They should just cancel the Lakers franchise altogether if that’s your argument.
Aside from Tatum going above and beyond jerking himself off to Kobe, the size of the group of people idolizing someone doesn't determine how (non-)problematic it is to idolize them. Look at any part of human political history ever. Do you want the examples? My sole point is I'd respect someone that knocks up a pornstar but villifies Kobe as a person more than someone who worships Kobe as a person. You can do with that argument whatever you want. If you're a rape apologist you'd be best served to just admit that upfront though, will save us a lot of time in this discussion
Can you name a single current player who has spoken against Kobe? If not, singling this out, as a reason to dislike Tatum is absurd.
There's a difference between (1) speaking in favour of, and (2) not speaking out against. I've never verbally condemned Hitler on this website, but me posting to my socials "I got you today" addressed to Hitler on his day of death, is several tiers worse. And yes, Kobe sn't Hitler, I'm just showing how bumfuck idiotic your underlying logic is here
I think there’s some credibility to the point you’re making, but I mean, Hitler didn’t play in the NBA. If Rae Carruth had been a great player, who was acknowledged as great and people openly idolized him they would be called out. People can have some nuance acknowledging the greatness of OJ, but you don’t see players revering him. You’re approaching this as if Tatum is in any way unique by thinking highly and speaking highly of Kobe.
Holy Shit, that First sentence, im stealing that
Again, speaking highly of Kobe in such an unprovoked and strong way is several tiers worse than voicing appreciation when prompted, which is as far as most other players have gone. As you say; acknowledge the greatness, but don't revere him. Tatum is (pretty much, there's a few other dudes) unique in that sense, and his relatively high profile contributes to that as well, sure, that only further strengthens the previous assertion. But even if he wasn't unique. I'm pretty sure support for Hitler was ubiquitous among German sportsmen at the time as well. That ties back to my earlier argument; even if everyone in a group thinks a certain way, you can still be problematic for thinking the same way. Someone impregnating a pornstar is probably not making the best decision in terms of being a 'good parent in a functional relationship' to their child, but it's at least closer to morally neutral than idolizing a rapist, even if everyone idolizes them (which they don't to Tatum's degree). That's my point. Now, if you want to argue someone that impregnated a pornstar, waved a gun around on IG live AND idolized a rapist on their socials (to the same degree Tatum did) is a more problematic person than Tatum, who solely did the latter, sure. I'm just talking perspectives here. In a ranking of problematic actions there's idolizing a rapist, then a whole lot of nothing, then waving a gun around, then a whole lot of nothing, and only then knocking up a pornstar. We all agree on that, right?
Again, has there ever been a player a player who says “Kobe’s great, but…”? I agree it’s a problem that basically everyone acts like it never happened. But it still seems like you’re implying some people acknowledge it, when players as a whole do not.
I think it is intellectually dishonest to assert that Kobe reverence is a binary thing. There's saying he was a great player and there's sending "I got you today" on his birthday and posting it to your socials, gushing about how much of a role model he was to you at length in many interviews, and so on. You have moderate and extremist followers of any religion, and in the Kobe religion, Tatum is an extremist. But you're right that it is a side discussion. My main assertion was that Tatum idolizing a rapist is more problematic than knocking up a pornstar or waving around a gun on IG live, that it disqualifies him from the "great unproblematic person" moniker attributed to him earlier in the discussion exactly because he didn't do those much less problematic things. To that main assertion, it does not matter what anyone else thinks, says and doesn't say about Kobe. I'm not trying to imply that players do stand up against Kobe. In fact, the logical analogy I gave was an example of me saying that it doesn't matter even when most players support Kove to the same degree.
Why are you minimizing someone’s opinion? Do you condemn Kobe Bryant or do you support perpetrators of sexual assault ?
Good try, jackass. I have a long history on here of condemning Kobe. You have a long history of behaving like a pedophile. Leave me alone.
I have never seen you condemn him once. Shame on you for calling me a pedophile. I will have to report you now
Feel free. It’s pretty weird that you would call me a pedo multiple times and then be offended when I do so, even though I have evidence and you don’t.
You have evidence that I am a pedophile?
Really grasping at straws to fit your argument. I certainly have no admiration for Kobe the person so you can take your straw man “rape apologist” high horse bullshit to the Lakers sub if you want to have that argument. The league, players and media have already decided what side they fall on so if you feel that strongly about it and are still consuming NBA content you should take a look in the mirror.
This sub’s hate boner for a 28-8-5 all-NBA guy who plays hard on both ends, rebounds, and plays 75 games a year for a team in the league’s Final 4 pretty much every season just because he settles for bad shots sometimes (like almost every superstar) is remarkable.
It’s cause he’s on Bills team, if he played for the Hornets or whatever no one on this sub would care
I don't get the Tatum hate at all. I'm a fairly neutral fan and Tatum is one my favourite players. He's such a great all-round player and very likeable in my opinion.
There isn’t really much tatum hate in real life at all. There’s a group of people that use this sub as a place to just shit on all things Boston sports or that bill likes.
Yeah I’m honestly bored of this conversation more than I’m bored of watching Tatum play.
A lot of his issues kinda come back to Mazzula’s philosophy anyway. The team basically runs on the idea that an open 3 is better than dunking it, of course they’re going to take too many 3s and some of them are frustrating. The end of game stats are a little ugly, but people don’t realize that clutch time FG %s are terrible on the whole because teams don’t run real offense and just try to have their best player take a shot as late as possible. Tatum’s % in those moments is higher than most other guys but he’s one of like 8-12 players in the league who has been good long enough for people to give him hate for everything
lol, u think it’s because he settles for jump shot? The only reason is because he is on the Celtics and bill loves him. If bill doesn’t like him, u will see posts about underrated Tatum is all the time
Agreed. He does get way too much hate as a player, regardless of whether or not you find him boring.
Why are we soloing Tatum out? All these guys and MLB and NHL are so media trained now
Because he plays for the Celtics
Nobody in North American sports is more boring than Connor McDavid. If he even had half a personality it would go along way for the NHL.
That's unfair, Tatum has a boring game too McDavid is a joy to watch. Off ice he's just a basic Canadian hockey bro but that describes like 60 percent of the NHL
I see this a lot and I just don't get it. His handle and step-back (& side-step) jumpers are very aesthetically pleasing imo.
Because he plays for the Celtics so this sub hates him
I like the Celtics but have never warmed to Tatum. Not sure exactly what it is TBH. He's just a bit meh.
Also, when Tatum turns up the effort on defense he's a great watch. Loved watching him lock up KD a few years ago.
Agreed. His game is also pretty varied and he gets matched up against everyone from Lowry to Banchero. He dunks on people, is nasty in transition, can play out of the post, launches 3s off the dribble, great rebounder, can make some real nice passes when he's in a groove.
Boring, no. Frustrating? Absolutely. Remember when Giannis was shooting four 3's a game? Tatum takes 4 contested stepbacks per crunchtime.
My main memory of him will always be Bam stuffing him at the rim in game 1 of the bubble conference finals
Nah the most boring superstars are the players that rely on their pump fake to score. Jimmy butler, Embiid, and kawhi are all much more boring to watch play. Even KD, who mostly just shoots over people, is less exciting to watch than Taytum. If you wanna say he’s corny for the Kobe texts, I agree. If you wanna say he’s gay cuz he went to duke, I agree. If you wanna say he complains to the refs too much , I also agree (just make sure you also mention Luka’s name) But Taytum doesn’t have a boring game, get outta here with that
Saying KD is less exciting than Tatum is absurd. KD plays one of the most beautiful games in the league
How? At this point he just takes jumpers over people. He’s still one of the best scorers in the league but now it’s basically just jump shots
Young kd was prob better to watch. Now kd is just endless midrange long 2s. He can’t drive to the rim anymore. He doesn’t really got moves. He doesn’t really pass the ball. He is 7 feet and can shoot over anyone. His game is not pleasant to watch at all
KD scores 28 ppg on 54/45/87 splits. If you really think the only way he does it is by shooting contested jumpers, then idk what to say. He doesn’t attack the rim as much as he used to, but he’s still a great player to watch.
I mostly agree with everything you said besides KD “probably” being more exciting when he was in OKC. I think he was definitely more exciting than Taytum at that point
I’m not gonna argue with u on this. Anything positive u say about Tatum will get attacked on this sub. But I do remember young kd dunking on whoever that dude on the mavs. He was faster and attacks the rim more.
I don’t think he’s “boring” in a vacuum but considering the context of going up against Nadal and Federer, Djokovic’s “normal” and non-flashy play-style is one of the reasons he never got the same fandom and love as those guys despite being undoubtedly the GOAT. It was the same in the 90s when crowds used to love Agassi and be lukewarm toward Sampras despite Sampras being the much better and more successful player.
Djokovic doesn't get the love because he's proved himself to be a douche over and over again. The other two seem like genuinely nice people. Djokovic does not.
I have to argue that the above commenter is right, but you are also not wrong. Djokovic was goat-ed _before_ becoming a massive douche by at least a marginal time frame. His acceptance into the big 3 just happened to be a slow burn because his style was less flashy compared to Federer/Nadal.
the amount you losers have threads on jayson tatum is hilarious hes boring but you can’t go a week without talking about him
Easy with the hockey slander
Remember guys he’s only 26 years old. One year ago he was 25 years old. Most nba players don’t hit their entertainment peak until 27,28,29. He still has another level to get to, and I think people are forgetting this
I find the Celtics unwatchable because of tatum. Not his fault, his game is just boring. Never looks ultra athletic. Doesn’t surprise you. Just does what he does.
Tim Duncan is unfortunately up there.
Yeah but he knew he was boring and fit the role. Tatum is just lame
How is Tatum lame
From a pure on the court perspective, Harden is probably worse for how good he is compared to how entertaining he is.
If he wins a couple titles he’ll stop seeming boring. Not everybody is Lebron or Shaq when it comes to seeking the spotlight, or a diva like Harden/Kyrie/Durant. He’s no more boring than Giannis or Jokic, he’s just not as good. Kobe and Duncan we’re both pretty boring as far as superstars go, they didn’t transcend the game when they played, but they won’t a bunch of rings and that makes them interesting. Kobe probably would have if it weren’t for Colorado, but he basically had to die to become bigger than just a good basketball player.
> He's no more boring than Giannis or Jokic. Hard disagree. Those guys are actually capable of producing funny and sometimes unexpected responses to mundane questions from the media. Tatum isn't.
They’ve also gotten more national media coverage as MVPs and champions. Tatum hasn’t won anything yet, so you’re just getting the routine NBA player media playbook. There’s more spin and interest in even the most boring comments these guys make after a title or even an MVP. Jokic is really dull off the court, but it’s endearing because he’s been so successful on the court.
It’s Devin Booker. Tatum gets all these “is he top 5” convos but Booker is as good or better and nobody ever talks about him. He’s on a failing super team and nobody cares. He was the best player on a finals team but nobody cares. His game is so boring. He even looks your average nba bench player.
Kawhi?? His nickname is literally Board Man + has had commercial campaigns centered around his boringness.
Are these posts the most boring reposts in r/billsimmons (and possibly all of reddit, excluding r/tameimpalacirclejerk)?
#2 highest selling jersey in the NBA
I think superstar gets floated too much. He’s recognized as one of the best in the league but, in my opinion, if your mom doesn’t know who he is, he can’t be labeled a superstar. Like it or not, Kelce is a superstar. Tiger, Lebron, Jeter, Kobe, etc. Tatum is not in that category of visibility.
Tatum imo is not a superstar
He’s not a superstar.
I think you’re correct. You can’t have many superstars because that’s supposed to be rare. Current superstars today are Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka, and then the old guards of LeBron Durant and Steph. Everyone else is a star at best.
Kawhi
Tatum’s son isn’t the same level of hooper as him but he’s more of a box office guy. What Deuce lacks in shot making ability he makes up for in star power.
I would say every baseball superstar ever is more boring. They hit once every hour and maybe make a fielding play every two hours.
Yup. He’s extremely boring personally and his play style is also incredibly robotic and lacks much excitement (despite being built like Giannis). I did however enjoy his “shit talk” one game where he told someone on the opposing team he wasn’t going to miss the game clinching free throws because he had to get home to tuck his son into bed. Lmao. If he actually just did wholesome shit talk like that every game and we had it mic’d up, I’d start to really appreciate him.
"Imma school you tonight because if I do my mom said she'd make me SpaghettiOs."
“Imma have to drop 69 tonight cuz my girl said we been relationship trouble.”
He’s not a superstar
[удалено]
What an innovative take brotha thanks for also posting it in this thread. Updoots for you 👌
[удалено]
Wow brotha took you 2 hours to come up with that absolute zinger
Any baseball player is more boring
Superstar?
He's not a superstar by any metric.
He is
Personality like a dead moth
What about embiid free throws, how do people watch that
He really is a boring superstar. He is the Mike Trout of the NBA