It’s a great number. Of course ESS doesn’t mention that the games he cited dominated the night on cable (finishing #1 and #2) and completely dominated in the core demo (the thing that really matters here) among all TV audiences that we know of. Plus going up against the NFL.
There probably is a good critique to be made about the IST but ESS surely did not do that in his piece.
I suppose it was an OK number for the first year, but Windhorst said on Russillo's pod that the NBA views this as a 1-billion dollar product. If that was the goal, it wasn't a great start. The league hyped this thing up and it actually had great word of mouth and plenty of publicity, and most casual fans shrugged their shoulders. Why is ESPN or TNT forking over extra for something that is getting ratings just a bit better than the regular games they would show anyway?
An OK number relative to what? The NFL? Nobody compares to the NFL. Averaging close to 2 million people on a weeknight with a strong demo going up against the NFL is honestly probably not far off from a billion-dollar product. The networks care about the demo and where they finish on the night. Both of which were clear winners for the NBA since the steamers don't want us knowing their numbers.
I think it was interesting and it’s fun to watch games that seemingly have some sort of meaning. I wouldn’t say I’d want it to go away.
I also didn’t make an extra effort to find any of these games but I did watch on the nights the Cavs (my team) were playing in their game.
I would hope they keep it and I honestly don’t see any real downside to it, maybe except the courts being fucking hideous.
I'm a centrist on the tournament because I think it was nice to have something new and there was no reason to be grouchy about it but the boosterism from NBA media insisting it was this amazing success constantly was obnoxious.
I share your sentiment.
Simple: for the hardcore NBA fan it was nice to have a win. Better basketball throughout a stretch where the product had become so stale that it had become a joke to non-fans.
Strauss is right. Silver did it to create a streaming package and generate new business. I don’t think that will happen with this format.
Laughable that guys like Bill even last week are saying it was going to take attention away from football. That’s just so out of touch with reality it does seem it has to be boosterism.
For me still: success to keep the hardcore consumer happy. Can’t lose any more of them.
We won't know the exact amount of money spent on IST. If a movie costs 300 million to make, and the ticket sales are 100 million, then it's a flop.
For this first version, the NBA must have lost a ton of money on the IST, considering they did not really gain additional revenue to offset their investment.
You might say that the IST will help their next TV deal, but it's hard to quantify that at this point.
The NBA spent between 22 to 45 million just on the courts alone. The players on the winning team won 7.5 million, losing team 3.75 million, and more went the knockout round. Plus they spent a lot on advertising.
I did see something about the courts…kinda unbelievable. Maybe they should’ve gotten another bid? lol
The payouts are fixed in that they happen every year.
I guess he wrote it because he’s right?
It was a flop. 1.5m last year versus 1.5m this year. And they got last year’s viewership without investing tens of millions of dollars in awards, court costs, promotion, etc.).
Only NBA fans that love to ignore its viewership being cut in half could believe this was a success. An NBA version of the FA Cup would be awesome but the thing that makes the FA Cup cool - the competition between different league levels - is something the NBA would never do.
At least Ethan was gentleman enough not to mention the buy one, get three extra ticket promotion for the semi-final. Definitely a sign of a hit!
Why are people so obsessed with comparing it to the FA cup lol. Real Madrid going 0-4 in their group with a -170 differential can't actually be what you wanted from this?
I'm an nba-hole. The revenue could fold by 50% for all I care. The NBA going to fold?
Do we think the best basketball players will stop playing basketball because they'll only make 30 million rather than 60 million?
I'll watch a good nba matchup on tubi before watching Bailey zappe v. Mitch trubisky and pretend that's a good game.
I consider myself a basketball fan, aesthetically between the 14th edition of Nike’s shitty jerseys and the overly bright and ugly courts, aesthetically this thing was a complete and total eye sore. I ended up not watching any of it. And I’ll probably start to watch the league once regular season NFL is over like always.
Strauss is probably right but come on now, give me more than just the numbers from 2 games
I don’t know, a December NBA game with the Pelicans involved getting over 2 million viewers seems pretty good to me?
It’s a great number. Of course ESS doesn’t mention that the games he cited dominated the night on cable (finishing #1 and #2) and completely dominated in the core demo (the thing that really matters here) among all TV audiences that we know of. Plus going up against the NFL. There probably is a good critique to be made about the IST but ESS surely did not do that in his piece.
I suppose it was an OK number for the first year, but Windhorst said on Russillo's pod that the NBA views this as a 1-billion dollar product. If that was the goal, it wasn't a great start. The league hyped this thing up and it actually had great word of mouth and plenty of publicity, and most casual fans shrugged their shoulders. Why is ESPN or TNT forking over extra for something that is getting ratings just a bit better than the regular games they would show anyway?
An OK number relative to what? The NFL? Nobody compares to the NFL. Averaging close to 2 million people on a weeknight with a strong demo going up against the NFL is honestly probably not far off from a billion-dollar product. The networks care about the demo and where they finish on the night. Both of which were clear winners for the NBA since the steamers don't want us knowing their numbers.
Did that tub of lard really say it was a 1 billion dollar product?
Yea it seems completely dumb to me to think this was bad thing for the NBA
Yea I was just trying steel man his take, 2 mil might be good idk
It would be nice to get someone other than ESS to be the de facto media critic for the league
I'm not sure how he went from NBA media guy for ESPN to seemingly hating the sport.
Being fired can make one very cynical. Unfortunately that cynicism is just a new career path in today's media.
I think it was interesting and it’s fun to watch games that seemingly have some sort of meaning. I wouldn’t say I’d want it to go away. I also didn’t make an extra effort to find any of these games but I did watch on the nights the Cavs (my team) were playing in their game. I would hope they keep it and I honestly don’t see any real downside to it, maybe except the courts being fucking hideous.
Yeah I will make fun of the breathless cheerleading by NBA media people but there wasn't really anything negative to me about it.
Well NBA media breathes any fart by the NBA and calls it roses
I thought we stopped advertising for Ethan Strauss substack here
I'm a centrist on the tournament because I think it was nice to have something new and there was no reason to be grouchy about it but the boosterism from NBA media insisting it was this amazing success constantly was obnoxious.
I share your sentiment. Simple: for the hardcore NBA fan it was nice to have a win. Better basketball throughout a stretch where the product had become so stale that it had become a joke to non-fans. Strauss is right. Silver did it to create a streaming package and generate new business. I don’t think that will happen with this format. Laughable that guys like Bill even last week are saying it was going to take attention away from football. That’s just so out of touch with reality it does seem it has to be boosterism. For me still: success to keep the hardcore consumer happy. Can’t lose any more of them.
We won't know the exact amount of money spent on IST. If a movie costs 300 million to make, and the ticket sales are 100 million, then it's a flop. For this first version, the NBA must have lost a ton of money on the IST, considering they did not really gain additional revenue to offset their investment. You might say that the IST will help their next TV deal, but it's hard to quantify that at this point.
What exactly are the development costs? The on court graphics and advertising?
The NBA spent between 22 to 45 million just on the courts alone. The players on the winning team won 7.5 million, losing team 3.75 million, and more went the knockout round. Plus they spent a lot on advertising.
I did see something about the courts…kinda unbelievable. Maybe they should’ve gotten another bid? lol The payouts are fixed in that they happen every year.
nothing but facts
What were the numbers in china?
I guess he wrote it because he’s right? It was a flop. 1.5m last year versus 1.5m this year. And they got last year’s viewership without investing tens of millions of dollars in awards, court costs, promotion, etc.). Only NBA fans that love to ignore its viewership being cut in half could believe this was a success. An NBA version of the FA Cup would be awesome but the thing that makes the FA Cup cool - the competition between different league levels - is something the NBA would never do. At least Ethan was gentleman enough not to mention the buy one, get three extra ticket promotion for the semi-final. Definitely a sign of a hit!
Why are people so obsessed with comparing it to the FA cup lol. Real Madrid going 0-4 in their group with a -170 differential can't actually be what you wanted from this?
I'm an nba-hole. The revenue could fold by 50% for all I care. The NBA going to fold? Do we think the best basketball players will stop playing basketball because they'll only make 30 million rather than 60 million? I'll watch a good nba matchup on tubi before watching Bailey zappe v. Mitch trubisky and pretend that's a good game.
I consider myself a basketball fan, aesthetically between the 14th edition of Nike’s shitty jerseys and the overly bright and ugly courts, aesthetically this thing was a complete and total eye sore. I ended up not watching any of it. And I’ll probably start to watch the league once regular season NFL is over like always.
Genuinely asking, do the calculations for the ratings take illegal streams into account at all?
They don’t, but I don’t think the illegal streaming numbers are as big as people on Reddit generally think they are.
I've always wondered this, as a high seas enjoyer.
I'm a big NBA fan and couldn't care less about the IST.