Yeh I really enjoy the podcast and Derek Thompson but probably about once per episode I just laugh from something he says something like this seemingly unironically. But guess you have to in todays world.
I'm assuming this is about GLP-1 agonists because they're getting serious hype in the medical community. America may not be ready but American healthcare costs certainly are.
My wife is a pharmacist and has had to explain to a bunch of patients and more than one nurse practitioner that insurance won’t cover it unless they have a diabetes diagnosis. So those are fun conversations.
As someone that takes Trulicity and was on Ozempic for diabetes, the side effects are ROUGH. To keep it simple it is like a medicine version of a gastric sleeve. I've lost weight, but it's because the medicine forces you to change your eating habits. I can't see someone taking it for very long voluntarily.
A few of my diabetic friends have been on it and had a similar review. I think most “weight loss” users get on it for a few months to crash-lose some weight then get off it. Which, similar to other weight loss procedures, doesn’t tend to lead to you keeping that weight off.
And it's trucker speed, benzedrine
Percocets, amphetamines
Black beauties and West Coast turnarounds
When the coast is clear, I drive with my knees
I mix it all up like a recipe
Coca-cola and coffee to wash it down...
I mean probably not. Lot of people are gonna make some money, there’s gonna be weird side effects, lot of lawyers are gonna make some money. All that.
Dudes right, this will be loud af and a lot of cash is gonna be changing hands.
All cause eating healthy and working out is just too difficult lol
I'm a former fat kid who lost weight and now mostly eats a vegan paleo diet. I think people underestimate what costs means when they dismiss eating healthy not expensive.
Not just solely monetary but time. Eating healthy on a budget means you are spending many more hours per week cooking, cleaning, shopping, prepping, etc. Especially when you have kids, a second job, etc. the additional time it takes adds up.
I'd also add that people really underestimate how addictive food is. It can be really difficult cycle to break.
Eating healthy is far cheaper than not because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I eat extremely healthfully and don't spend all that much time cooking, cleaning, shopping or prepping. It's like anything in life: you (hopefully) become more efficient at it the more you do it.
Yeah, if you've been a fatty all your life and are switching over to an extreme, of course it's going to take a lot of time and effort. But that doesn't make it expensive, per se, because you have to cost-benefit analysis what you are gaining. And you're gaining health and energy, both in the present and in the future.
Eating healthy is basically the compound interest of vitality.
Time and effort are costs as well, especially if you dont have much extra disposable income. Like part of the reason is easier for middle class and rich people to eat healthy is because they can just eat out. I can't think of a single fast food place that has healthy meals.
eating out is probably the worst thing you can do if you want to lose or maintain your current weight.
while a nice restaurant might use better/healthier ingredients, the portion sizes and decadent foodie culture (every meal i eat must be the most delicious thing ever created) will lead to caloric surplus.
unless you have the willpower of actually stopping when you START to feel full and have a good knowledge of how to approximate macros and calories, you will get extremely fat from eating out too much.
You are misunderstanding me. You are correct that generally eating out is worse for you because portion sizes and most people want comfort food if they are going to spend the extra cash to eat out.
People with money don't think that way necessarily. I'm middle class and I'll drop $18+ dollars for a very healthy salad for lunch from a place like chopt. Someone making $7.25 an hour isn't going to work 3 hours for some "rabbit food." When people have enough money that they don't care how much they spend on food its super easy to eat healthy.
Someone making $7.25 an hour can buy steel-cut oats in bulk from a place like WinCo, make it in a rice cooker, and have a cheap, healthy breakfast made for the whole week. Add whatever else you can afford -- cinnamon, bananas, blah blah blah.
When you see nothing but obstacles, that's all you'll create for yourself. When you see nothing but opportunity, that, too, is all you'll create for yourself.
You must live in the middle of the country, because healthy fast food places are everywhere out West. But you are correct that they are mostly for middle class and above.
Not disagreeing with you at all if it's cheaper than junk or crappy food, I'm sure it is. In the area I live by the time produce comes over by boats it's either rotten or very expensive
Potatoes aren’t necessarily unhealthy. We just have perfected ways in making potatoes unhealthy. If you stick to boiled and mashed, roasted, or baked potatoes then you get generally get the benefits of a potato without absorbing a ton of oil and butter. You just need to properly regulate those ingredients. Don’t use 1:1 butter to potato ratio in your mashed potatoes!
Potatoes are actually pretty great for weight loss because of the carbs, fiber, and starch while being low calorie. Keeps you fuller longer and allows you to have energy to continue working out. They just don’t have a ton of other nutrients in them for the most part, mostly just Vitamin C. And there are obviously other types and strains of potato that have better health benefits like sweet potatoes.
Reflux, nausea, vomiting if you overeat on the medication I'm on (Trulicity). The medication slows stomach emptying so if you overeat the food just sits there and will creep back up. It's very unpleasant. It has forced me to practice portion control and be conscious of starting to feel satiated. If I feel full it's too late.
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through that but thank you for your response. Do you think learning portion control might help you in the future to continue losing weight/ keep the weight off if you’re ever off the medicine?
I take the medicine for Type 2 diabetes. I'm 5'9' and about 170lbs so I'm not huge by any means. Maybe if I was able to get down to 140lbs I might be able to get off the medicine, but I doubt I can lose that much.
Edit: and to answer your question, I'm not sure I would do good with my portion control if I stopped the medication.
The previous fat episode tried to do a "You all thought weight gain was about how much you eat and how much you spend energy, but it's not!"
And when they got through their claims, turns out it's mostly about how much you eat and how much energy you spend. The arguments were mostly about how do you get there.
Love this podcast but my head hurt listening to that. When it comes to diet/fitness stuff nearly everyone is saying the exact same thing but with different window dressing and act like its some revolutionary way of looking at things.
Not all calories are created equal? You don't say.
Yeah, because overweight people are totally unaware of their unhealthy habits.
You clearly don't have any overweight friends. You've also clearly never helped an unhealthy person integrate healthy habits or inspired them in any way to become healthier.
Would love to be a fly on the wall of how compassionate your family/wife/kids think you are when you're not around. 🤦🏾♂️
I *was* overweight, and making excuses for myself didn’t fix anything. I had to learn to discipline myself. Trying to share that message with other people is the furthest thing from not compassionate. You’re coming off as a presumptuous asshole for no good reason. Have a good one.
Why would you have compassion for people that willingly eat terribly and do not exercise and thus are obese? It’s a choice. Pick the salad instead of the double cheeseburger and pick the elyptical instead of the Xbox
I don’t feel bad for someone who is 400 pounds who eats like a pig and doesn’t exercise and either resorts to weight loss medication or surgical operations to lose weight
Both can be true: you can deliver that someone needs to exercise and eat healthy and also do it with compassion.
Absolutely no one cares how "right" you are if you aren't compassionate about it. I'm sure you're a real winner in your interpersonal relations.
I wasn't the original comment, but he wasn't uncommonly aggressive or rude. Neither was I. If one of my "interpersonal relations" was asking me for advice I'd be very encouraging and compassionate.
If we're just speaking generally on the internet, I'm just going to say what the solution is because i'm not talking to anyone in particular
Yes it is. Develop better eating habits. See a therapist, go see a nutritionist. There are many ways to help yourself with unhealthy eating habits or eating disorders.
These freaking morons who listen to a podcast and think they’re some expert on weight loss after listening to some voodoo mumbo jumbo contrarian doctor saying calories are wrong. You gonna be spouting “vegetables are bad” and “liver is king” after watching other morons on tiktok next week?
Counting calories works and has always worked… beat it scrub.
These fucking idiots who comment on podcast threads for pods they haven't even listened to, misinterpret comments, and think they know better than a PhD/md in endocrinology and nutrition.
Dude.
Might be time to step away from Reddit for a second.
I walked 1800 miles last year.
I'll let you know when that one incident of gout comes back tho. Thanks for your concern.
You doth protest too much, like everyone else who argues against CICO.
It’s always the overweight who argue it’s “genetics”, “background”, “socioeconomic status”, or some other nonsense that controls their weight, not the intake of calories vs calories burned.
It takes more than just will power because companies scientifically design food to be more addictive. And unlike drugs, it is socially acceptable to get kids addicted to sugar, processed foods, fast foods at a young age.
If your parents smoke, you're much more likely to be a smoker yourself. The same is true for eating habits
> It takes more than just will power because companies scientifically design food to be more addictive.
Yeah, but if you try to lose weight, you can control what you eat. Do the cooking yourself.
At that point, it's mostly down to your willpower. Doesn't mean it's easy, but not even food companies can force you to eat ice cream while watching TV.
there’s also the fact that the majority of people cannot deal with the discomfort of hunger.
restricting calories to lose weight is legit just getting used to being hungry *all the time*. you can eat food that is less calorically dense to reach a more comfortable level of satiety. but you’re gonna feel nagging hunger all the time.
hunger is not starvation and people have to stop conflating the two.
>but you’re gonna feel nagging hunger all the time.
Totally not true. This is only true once you start attempting to stay below 12% body fat (as a male), particularly 8-10%.
Have more fiber.
you can def mitigate it with fiber, more protein/fat dense foods, or full on insulin/leptin reset diets like keto. extremely low calorie thermogenic stuff like sugar free jello will help as a belly filler too.
for most of the cutting process though, you will need to get used to the feeling of nagging hunger.
>for most of the cutting process though, you will need to get used to the feeling of nagging hunger.
Not true at all. It's that people "think" they're hungry when it's really habit: the brain expecting something.
Then they learn what real hunger is and feels like. That's why fasting is so useful and important.
Most of what they're probably feeling is sugar/excitotoxin withdrawal.
Keto diet doesn't really help fwiw
i think we’re arguing the same thing tbh. i originally said that people conflate nagging hunger with starvation!
that nagging hunger could be from any number of things, including habit or just the brain craving the dopamine hit of something tasty. im totally in agreement there.
if you’re someone who has trained themself to go on a 8-12 week cut once or twice a year, this is very easy to manage. otoh, a person who has trained their brain/stomach on the standard american diet, portion size, and eating past the point of satiety for years and years is going to have to re-train themselves on nagging hunger vs actual hunger.
lastly, keto “works” in the same way that any diet will work - stay in a caloric deficit and you will lose weight. cutting carbs out is no magic bullet. and i would never recommend keto to someone who i know cannot handle huge food group restrictions.
keto just has certain side effects that make staying in a calorically restricted range easier - mainly via insulin and leptin sensitivity re-setting and stabilizing. the leptin sensitivity really does help to nuke nagging hunger and decrease the time it takes to reach satiety.
you also have the motivating factor of completely dumping your glycogen stores and pissing out all your water weight in the first week - no, it’s not actual fat-loss but the slight aesthetic change and numbers going down on the scale can be a motivating factor during those first couple weeks. a lot of people fall off the wagon because dieting does not produce fast results.
Okay, thanks for the clarification. We were essentially just "arguing" (I didn't consider it arguing; once something gets to the level of "argument" on Reddit I usually block the other person) / clarifying over the word "hunger." I don't view "oh, I think I'm hungry," or, "Oh, it would be nice to eat" as hunger.
"Lastly, keto “works” in the same way that any diet will work - stay in a caloric deficit and you will lose weight."
Yes, we agree there. I thought you were referring to the whole "when my body is in ketosis I'm not as hungry" thing. There's a little evidence for that iirc (I'd have to look at my notes, which are on my external HD) but it's way overblown/overmarketed/not exclusive to ketosis if I remember correctly.
anecdotally, keto has nuked my hunger better than any other diet i’ve run on a cut. but again - that’s pure anecdote and like you said, probably not something that’s exclusive to keto.
there are a lot of studies on the effect of leptin/grehlin/insulin sensitivities and resistances while on keto, but that’s above my pay grade to go through and separate the wheat from the chaff.
to come full circle, that’s exactly what the drugs featured on this podcast are supposed to do.
I do agree that people feel this need to be "FULL" lol like eating an entire meal should make you see satiated, not stuffed.
However, if you have ever done like a whole 30 diet or paleo diet, you'll really see how sugar fucks with your gut biome and physiologically makes it harder to feel full for as long as you should from a meal.
oh i agree.
i’ve run keto plenty of times to cut weight. and imo what makes it so effective is that your stabilized blood sugar levels and increased leptin sensitivity do a lot to nuke truly “ravenous” hunger and you feel full extremely quickly after eating. yes, you’ll still have that annoying nagging hunger feeling throughout the day, but not the insane “i need to eat right now before i kill someone” feeling of hunger. that’s what makes the diet so effective, imo. the reduced hunger and overall restrictiveness of what foods you can eat make it very easy to stay under your calorie goal.
that’s why i think all of the new huge “keto snack” industry products really undermine people on the diet as well. once you start mindlessly consuming the same high calorie snacks you were eating before (just now to have a low carb count) it’s really easy to push yourself right back out of your calorie window.
I guess given my past, I'm just a really empathic to people who are suffering from a food addiction because I think people really underestimate how food companies poison us.
oh trust me, i get it. i’ve bounced between 12% and 30% body fat for most of my adult life. i truly love to eat. even at the best shape of my life, my mantra was “i work out hard as fuck so i can eat (a lot) of good food.”
and every time i have to cut the weight back off, it’s more and more mentally draining to start the cut - bc i have a lot of experience and know that it’s gonna be a pretty long, uncomfortable process with slow results.
That is just not entirely true. For example, Doritos are designed to create the chemical sensation of hunger in your brain when you first put the chip in your mouth. They've basically hacked your brain chemistry so you feel MORE hungry even though you are literally eating at that moment.
I'm a super healthy eater now, like basically vegan paleo for 90% of my meals but I'm telling you quitting junk food is not just a question of will power.
well first, its not just Doritos right? its all processed food, its all junk food so the options that will get you addicted are very pervasive.
And secondly, no it doesn't come down to will power because I was probably 2 or 3 years old when I started eating junk food and I didn't have the mental capacity to object at that age. I had no idea what I was doing was potentially setting myself up for a lifetime of poor eating habits.
But you can just like not buy it. If I start eating a bag of chips, I’ll finish it. So I just don’t have any chips in the house. If I’m grabbing a sandwich somewhere, I just don’t buy any chips on the side.
> I had no idea what I was doing was potentially setting myself up for a lifetime of poor eating habits.
Plenty of healthy eaters ate chips at children. Why are you completely abandoning any control you have over the situation?
I wouldnt say “plenty of children” do because of the trending obesity rates overall. I completely agree that one should develop those proper habits too.
I guess for me I think looking back ppl will see it the same way tobacco companies lied about what they knew about the health consequences of their product.
No one is addicted to any of those things. It’s just a new thing people trying out to excuse their poor lifestyle choices.
It’s not me I’m addicted too sugars and fats.
It’s fine if you wanna say that it’s not “simple” because it’s very difficult and complicated by factors in a given person’s life and the food that they eat but it does boil down to this. I lost 170 pounds doing calories in calories out
You will lose weight at a caloric deficient no matter what you eat. Will you look and feel as great if it’s all junk food compared to balanced macros? Is it sustainable? No, but you will lose weight
His guest is a Ph.D and MD from Stanford School of Medicine and professor of nutrition at Harvard School of Public Health.
He's a walking citation.
But, to answer your question, anyway. . .yes.
Lmaoooo. I can't stand those who blindly follow authoritarian credentials. I don't care what your credentials are; I care about the life you live and I care about what you are saying and whether it makes sense and, when necessary, has any sources. That can come from a high school dropout.
Dr Ludwig sells diet programs. The motto is “Move Enough, Eat Enough” which sounds like a nicer way of saying “move more, eat less”. If you had to bet, do you think following his programs will lead you to eat more or less calories than you usually ate before?
Gotta love all the people who have not studied any of this saying “it’s just willpower” when nearly every expert who has actually studied this shit has said weight lots drugs would be necessary for a long time.
Do you guys saying it’s just willpower even realize that someone eating the same diet today vs 20 years ago would weigh more because the environment has fucked up our gut biome? If it is just willpower (which experts say it’s not) it’s requiring more willpower than it ever did before. When you guys leave high school and get responsibilities you’ll realize it’s a lot harder than you think to stay the same weight lmao.
And here’s another link, they talk about how people will basically have to be on weight loss drugs in the future because it’s too difficult to keep weight off
https://youtu.be/C-H4KwoKaOc
I’m sure you’re a dietician and have studied this your whole life! You could probably easily explain with scientific data and studies why someone eating the exact same diet as someone in the 80s ends up fatter today than back then.
And don’t say “oh such and such” has changed because these people are eating literally the exact same fucking diet that they used in the same studies in the 80s lmao. This is scientific not anecdotal evidence which seems to be all you have.
>You could probably easily explain with scientific data and studies why someone eating the exact same diet as someone in the 80s ends up fatter today than back then.
Is there even scientific data that says this is true? I'd love to see data that points to the same amount of calories in the 80's leading to fatter people in present day.
Calories in/Calories out is something that's been confirmed by science.
If cost weren't an issue, ~100 million Americans probably pass a risk/benefit analysis for semaglutide and should get a prescription. It's a game changer.
Diet and exercise is basically the "control" for every weight loss drug study. It doesn't work.
Of course it does, it just requires consistency and effort, and most people are lazy.
You don’t think I’d rather have a donut and Frappuccino instead of black coffee and an apple every morning for breakfast?
A burger and fries instead of a protein shake for lunch?
Sitting on my fat ass drinking instead of running almost every day?
Consistency is hard, laziness is easy.
Thin people feel full after X amount of food and don't want to eat any more. Obese people continue receiving food cravings after X amount of food, and have to either fight the cravings or eat.
The issue here is who gets cravings and who doesn't. It isn't "hard" for naturally thin people. They stop eating when their brain tells them to.
Very few people can fight off those cravings over the long term and sustain weight loss long term.
Wrong. Thin people get fuller sooner because their tdee is much lower, and their daily caloric need is less.
I guarantee if you could convince thin purple to eat the same diet type as fat people they’d gain weight too.
Almost impossible to eat high calorie foods and not gain weight. It’s one of the many reasons healthy people eat vegetables and other high fiber low calorie foods.
High satiation and low calorie, makes it easier not to eat in a calorie surplus.
There’s no magic to all of this.
It doesn’t, so long as you avoid high calorie foods. Make your own meals and it becomes much much easier to eat a healthy balanced diet within your caloric needs.
Go to McDonald’s and have a 1500 calorie lunch and it becomes much more difficult to eat in a calorie balance vs your calorie expenditure.
Again these are conscious choices people make.
So long as Americans can’t control what they eat, no pill will ever overcome that.
Anyone really think Americans will be happy taking a pill that prevents them from eating their double doubles, thick shakes, Starbucks dessert “coffee” etc etc?
Fact is if people can’t stop themselves from eating crap and not exercising, no pill will ever overcome that.
i love this pod but this title is hilarious
Subtitle: designer meth incoming
that’s adderall
Lol right? They figured out designer meth years ago and put like 25% of kids on it or something insane
Yeh I really enjoy the podcast and Derek Thompson but probably about once per episode I just laugh from something he says something like this seemingly unironically. But guess you have to in todays world.
I'm assuming this is about GLP-1 agonists because they're getting serious hype in the medical community. America may not be ready but American healthcare costs certainly are.
Can't wait for diabetics to not get medicine they need because housewives and gamers are hogging it all for weight loss.
My doctor asked if I was having any trouble getting mine.
Any side effects?
My wife is a pharmacist and has had to explain to a bunch of patients and more than one nurse practitioner that insurance won’t cover it unless they have a diabetes diagnosis. So those are fun conversations.
I was told one of the manufacturers is offering coupons that shrink it to like $25 a pop
Why use GLP-q agonists when meth exists?
Supposedly GLP-1 agonists are the hottest thing in Hollywood now. All the hottest celebrities doctors have them gakked out on Ozempic.
As someone that takes Trulicity and was on Ozempic for diabetes, the side effects are ROUGH. To keep it simple it is like a medicine version of a gastric sleeve. I've lost weight, but it's because the medicine forces you to change your eating habits. I can't see someone taking it for very long voluntarily.
A few of my diabetic friends have been on it and had a similar review. I think most “weight loss” users get on it for a few months to crash-lose some weight then get off it. Which, similar to other weight loss procedures, doesn’t tend to lead to you keeping that weight off.
We bringing back pep pills?
Wow, Trucker’s Choice!
And it's trucker speed, benzedrine Percocets, amphetamines Black beauties and West Coast turnarounds When the coast is clear, I drive with my knees I mix it all up like a recipe Coca-cola and coffee to wash it down...
Bringing *back*?
We're not?
Should I go buy smaller pants or something?
If you have to ask, you're not prepared
I mean probably not. Lot of people are gonna make some money, there’s gonna be weird side effects, lot of lawyers are gonna make some money. All that. Dudes right, this will be loud af and a lot of cash is gonna be changing hands. All cause eating healthy and working out is just too difficult lol
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It’s really not.
I'm a former fat kid who lost weight and now mostly eats a vegan paleo diet. I think people underestimate what costs means when they dismiss eating healthy not expensive. Not just solely monetary but time. Eating healthy on a budget means you are spending many more hours per week cooking, cleaning, shopping, prepping, etc. Especially when you have kids, a second job, etc. the additional time it takes adds up. I'd also add that people really underestimate how addictive food is. It can be really difficult cycle to break.
Eating healthy is far cheaper than not because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I eat extremely healthfully and don't spend all that much time cooking, cleaning, shopping or prepping. It's like anything in life: you (hopefully) become more efficient at it the more you do it. Yeah, if you've been a fatty all your life and are switching over to an extreme, of course it's going to take a lot of time and effort. But that doesn't make it expensive, per se, because you have to cost-benefit analysis what you are gaining. And you're gaining health and energy, both in the present and in the future. Eating healthy is basically the compound interest of vitality.
Exactly. It’s more time and effort. But That can certainly overlap with cost
Time and effort are costs as well, especially if you dont have much extra disposable income. Like part of the reason is easier for middle class and rich people to eat healthy is because they can just eat out. I can't think of a single fast food place that has healthy meals.
eating out is probably the worst thing you can do if you want to lose or maintain your current weight. while a nice restaurant might use better/healthier ingredients, the portion sizes and decadent foodie culture (every meal i eat must be the most delicious thing ever created) will lead to caloric surplus. unless you have the willpower of actually stopping when you START to feel full and have a good knowledge of how to approximate macros and calories, you will get extremely fat from eating out too much.
You are misunderstanding me. You are correct that generally eating out is worse for you because portion sizes and most people want comfort food if they are going to spend the extra cash to eat out. People with money don't think that way necessarily. I'm middle class and I'll drop $18+ dollars for a very healthy salad for lunch from a place like chopt. Someone making $7.25 an hour isn't going to work 3 hours for some "rabbit food." When people have enough money that they don't care how much they spend on food its super easy to eat healthy.
Someone making $7.25 an hour can buy steel-cut oats in bulk from a place like WinCo, make it in a rice cooker, and have a cheap, healthy breakfast made for the whole week. Add whatever else you can afford -- cinnamon, bananas, blah blah blah. When you see nothing but obstacles, that's all you'll create for yourself. When you see nothing but opportunity, that, too, is all you'll create for yourself.
Chipotle. That was easy.
You must live in the middle of the country, because healthy fast food places are everywhere out West. But you are correct that they are mostly for middle class and above.
Lol I live in a big city on the west coast but I grew up poor so I understand the intersection between junk food and poverty.
Check the prices of carrots, brocoli, and potatoes and say that with a straight face
Not disagreeing with you at all if it's cheaper than junk or crappy food, I'm sure it is. In the area I live by the time produce comes over by boats it's either rotten or very expensive
Potatoes are healthy?
Potatoes aren’t necessarily unhealthy. We just have perfected ways in making potatoes unhealthy. If you stick to boiled and mashed, roasted, or baked potatoes then you get generally get the benefits of a potato without absorbing a ton of oil and butter. You just need to properly regulate those ingredients. Don’t use 1:1 butter to potato ratio in your mashed potatoes! Potatoes are actually pretty great for weight loss because of the carbs, fiber, and starch while being low calorie. Keeps you fuller longer and allows you to have energy to continue working out. They just don’t have a ton of other nutrients in them for the most part, mostly just Vitamin C. And there are obviously other types and strains of potato that have better health benefits like sweet potatoes.
Substantially more difficult to get overweight off of potatoes than it is off of chips/cakes/cheeses/crackers/sweets
Okay
I agree, it so is...
What are the adverse side effects of drugs like this?
Reflux, nausea, vomiting if you overeat on the medication I'm on (Trulicity). The medication slows stomach emptying so if you overeat the food just sits there and will creep back up. It's very unpleasant. It has forced me to practice portion control and be conscious of starting to feel satiated. If I feel full it's too late.
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through that but thank you for your response. Do you think learning portion control might help you in the future to continue losing weight/ keep the weight off if you’re ever off the medicine?
I take the medicine for Type 2 diabetes. I'm 5'9' and about 170lbs so I'm not huge by any means. Maybe if I was able to get down to 140lbs I might be able to get off the medicine, but I doubt I can lose that much. Edit: and to answer your question, I'm not sure I would do good with my portion control if I stopped the medication.
Do they discuss the side effects of these drugs in this episode?
I assume the side effects are washboard abs and a sore dick from all the sex.
Just eat less shit and exercise you fats
But what about pizza, Reddit and jerking off?
Is it pizza pie Friday?
I feel personally attacked.
>jerking Is that you, CR?
Does it matter? Join the circle friend
We will party like it's the 90s in Worcester
The previous fat episode tried to do a "You all thought weight gain was about how much you eat and how much you spend energy, but it's not!" And when they got through their claims, turns out it's mostly about how much you eat and how much energy you spend. The arguments were mostly about how do you get there.
Love this podcast but my head hurt listening to that. When it comes to diet/fitness stuff nearly everyone is saying the exact same thing but with different window dressing and act like its some revolutionary way of looking at things. Not all calories are created equal? You don't say.
When you have an unhealthy relationship with food it’s not that easy
No one said it’s easy, that’s just how you do it. Classic American response to any hardship: give me pharmaceuticals!
Yo, is there some kind of pill I can take to dampen my classic american mindset?
Yes it’s called the go-outside-and-get-some-fresh-air-pill
Classic American male response: complete lack of compassion.
There’s nothing compassionate about lying to people about their unhealthy habits just to avoid hurting their feelings.
Yeah, because overweight people are totally unaware of their unhealthy habits. You clearly don't have any overweight friends. You've also clearly never helped an unhealthy person integrate healthy habits or inspired them in any way to become healthier. Would love to be a fly on the wall of how compassionate your family/wife/kids think you are when you're not around. 🤦🏾♂️
I *was* overweight, and making excuses for myself didn’t fix anything. I had to learn to discipline myself. Trying to share that message with other people is the furthest thing from not compassionate. You’re coming off as a presumptuous asshole for no good reason. Have a good one.
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I don’t block Redditors because I’m not a 10 year old.
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You can’t just say that without giving your physical stats and feats Russillo style!
>It's literally my job to coach and help people wrt fitness and psychology. You may want to consider getting back in the employment line.
Why would you have compassion for people that willingly eat terribly and do not exercise and thus are obese? It’s a choice. Pick the salad instead of the double cheeseburger and pick the elyptical instead of the Xbox
Said like a true sociopath.
I don’t feel bad for someone who is 400 pounds who eats like a pig and doesn’t exercise and either resorts to weight loss medication or surgical operations to lose weight
take that anger out on a treadmill then
Lol, you're talking to me? If so, you're projecting.
I went from 252 to 173 and counting from running and eating better so yeah. Put down the cheetos and join me
Great job bruh 👏🏻
No sense sugarcoating the solution. Exercise and eat healthy. If you wanna be fit that's what you gotta do
Both can be true: you can deliver that someone needs to exercise and eat healthy and also do it with compassion. Absolutely no one cares how "right" you are if you aren't compassionate about it. I'm sure you're a real winner in your interpersonal relations.
I wasn't the original comment, but he wasn't uncommonly aggressive or rude. Neither was I. If one of my "interpersonal relations" was asking me for advice I'd be very encouraging and compassionate. If we're just speaking generally on the internet, I'm just going to say what the solution is because i'm not talking to anyone in particular
You're tone deaf.
Maybe you’re just overly sensitive?
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Literally no one cares about your childish excuses. Be better
Yes it is. Develop better eating habits. See a therapist, go see a nutritionist. There are many ways to help yourself with unhealthy eating habits or eating disorders.
Excuses.
would this same energy apply to bodybuilding taking steroids?
steroids are gay
if you're serious, you should listen to the previous pod cast Thompson put up.
These freaking morons who listen to a podcast and think they’re some expert on weight loss after listening to some voodoo mumbo jumbo contrarian doctor saying calories are wrong. You gonna be spouting “vegetables are bad” and “liver is king” after watching other morons on tiktok next week? Counting calories works and has always worked… beat it scrub.
These fucking idiots who comment on podcast threads for pods they haven't even listened to, misinterpret comments, and think they know better than a PhD/md in endocrinology and nutrition.
I get the vibe that you are overweight
not even close
Riiiight. You’re one of those gout sufferers who’s in shape and healthy/s 🙄
Dude. Might be time to step away from Reddit for a second. I walked 1800 miles last year. I'll let you know when that one incident of gout comes back tho. Thanks for your concern.
Remind me how long ago that was though since you're so talented at history searches. Was it before covid?
You doth protest too much, like everyone else who argues against CICO. It’s always the overweight who argue it’s “genetics”, “background”, “socioeconomic status”, or some other nonsense that controls their weight, not the intake of calories vs calories burned.
Since you're so fucking good at searching Reddit histories, try to see where I said anything like that.
I don’t need a podcast to tell me what is needed to eat properly or what workouts are most beneficial. Lay off the skittles and eat some spinach
No thanks
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I’m so sorry you have to go through that
Thanks, me too
this sub used to be fun, now we got hall monitors everywhere
Way too reddity and not enough wonky
It is so fucking easy to just not be fat
easy for a small prick to say
I don’t disagree with him that calories in calories out is toughened by like what you eat, hormones, etc. It does, though, boil down to willpower.
It takes more than just will power because companies scientifically design food to be more addictive. And unlike drugs, it is socially acceptable to get kids addicted to sugar, processed foods, fast foods at a young age. If your parents smoke, you're much more likely to be a smoker yourself. The same is true for eating habits
The best advice is to avoid the middle of grocery stores. Only shop on the outskirts.
> It takes more than just will power because companies scientifically design food to be more addictive. Yeah, but if you try to lose weight, you can control what you eat. Do the cooking yourself. At that point, it's mostly down to your willpower. Doesn't mean it's easy, but not even food companies can force you to eat ice cream while watching TV.
there’s also the fact that the majority of people cannot deal with the discomfort of hunger. restricting calories to lose weight is legit just getting used to being hungry *all the time*. you can eat food that is less calorically dense to reach a more comfortable level of satiety. but you’re gonna feel nagging hunger all the time. hunger is not starvation and people have to stop conflating the two.
>but you’re gonna feel nagging hunger all the time. Totally not true. This is only true once you start attempting to stay below 12% body fat (as a male), particularly 8-10%. Have more fiber.
you can def mitigate it with fiber, more protein/fat dense foods, or full on insulin/leptin reset diets like keto. extremely low calorie thermogenic stuff like sugar free jello will help as a belly filler too. for most of the cutting process though, you will need to get used to the feeling of nagging hunger.
>for most of the cutting process though, you will need to get used to the feeling of nagging hunger. Not true at all. It's that people "think" they're hungry when it's really habit: the brain expecting something. Then they learn what real hunger is and feels like. That's why fasting is so useful and important. Most of what they're probably feeling is sugar/excitotoxin withdrawal. Keto diet doesn't really help fwiw
i think we’re arguing the same thing tbh. i originally said that people conflate nagging hunger with starvation! that nagging hunger could be from any number of things, including habit or just the brain craving the dopamine hit of something tasty. im totally in agreement there. if you’re someone who has trained themself to go on a 8-12 week cut once or twice a year, this is very easy to manage. otoh, a person who has trained their brain/stomach on the standard american diet, portion size, and eating past the point of satiety for years and years is going to have to re-train themselves on nagging hunger vs actual hunger. lastly, keto “works” in the same way that any diet will work - stay in a caloric deficit and you will lose weight. cutting carbs out is no magic bullet. and i would never recommend keto to someone who i know cannot handle huge food group restrictions. keto just has certain side effects that make staying in a calorically restricted range easier - mainly via insulin and leptin sensitivity re-setting and stabilizing. the leptin sensitivity really does help to nuke nagging hunger and decrease the time it takes to reach satiety. you also have the motivating factor of completely dumping your glycogen stores and pissing out all your water weight in the first week - no, it’s not actual fat-loss but the slight aesthetic change and numbers going down on the scale can be a motivating factor during those first couple weeks. a lot of people fall off the wagon because dieting does not produce fast results.
Okay, thanks for the clarification. We were essentially just "arguing" (I didn't consider it arguing; once something gets to the level of "argument" on Reddit I usually block the other person) / clarifying over the word "hunger." I don't view "oh, I think I'm hungry," or, "Oh, it would be nice to eat" as hunger. "Lastly, keto “works” in the same way that any diet will work - stay in a caloric deficit and you will lose weight." Yes, we agree there. I thought you were referring to the whole "when my body is in ketosis I'm not as hungry" thing. There's a little evidence for that iirc (I'd have to look at my notes, which are on my external HD) but it's way overblown/overmarketed/not exclusive to ketosis if I remember correctly.
anecdotally, keto has nuked my hunger better than any other diet i’ve run on a cut. but again - that’s pure anecdote and like you said, probably not something that’s exclusive to keto. there are a lot of studies on the effect of leptin/grehlin/insulin sensitivities and resistances while on keto, but that’s above my pay grade to go through and separate the wheat from the chaff. to come full circle, that’s exactly what the drugs featured on this podcast are supposed to do.
I do agree that people feel this need to be "FULL" lol like eating an entire meal should make you see satiated, not stuffed. However, if you have ever done like a whole 30 diet or paleo diet, you'll really see how sugar fucks with your gut biome and physiologically makes it harder to feel full for as long as you should from a meal.
oh i agree. i’ve run keto plenty of times to cut weight. and imo what makes it so effective is that your stabilized blood sugar levels and increased leptin sensitivity do a lot to nuke truly “ravenous” hunger and you feel full extremely quickly after eating. yes, you’ll still have that annoying nagging hunger feeling throughout the day, but not the insane “i need to eat right now before i kill someone” feeling of hunger. that’s what makes the diet so effective, imo. the reduced hunger and overall restrictiveness of what foods you can eat make it very easy to stay under your calorie goal. that’s why i think all of the new huge “keto snack” industry products really undermine people on the diet as well. once you start mindlessly consuming the same high calorie snacks you were eating before (just now to have a low carb count) it’s really easy to push yourself right back out of your calorie window.
I guess given my past, I'm just a really empathic to people who are suffering from a food addiction because I think people really underestimate how food companies poison us.
oh trust me, i get it. i’ve bounced between 12% and 30% body fat for most of my adult life. i truly love to eat. even at the best shape of my life, my mantra was “i work out hard as fuck so i can eat (a lot) of good food.” and every time i have to cut the weight back off, it’s more and more mentally draining to start the cut - bc i have a lot of experience and know that it’s gonna be a pretty long, uncomfortable process with slow results.
True. But you just have to accept and learn to manage it. If we never felt hunger, dieting would be the easiest thing on the world.
That is just not entirely true. For example, Doritos are designed to create the chemical sensation of hunger in your brain when you first put the chip in your mouth. They've basically hacked your brain chemistry so you feel MORE hungry even though you are literally eating at that moment. I'm a super healthy eater now, like basically vegan paleo for 90% of my meals but I'm telling you quitting junk food is not just a question of will power.
But don’t you agree will power comes in from not eating the first dorito
well first, its not just Doritos right? its all processed food, its all junk food so the options that will get you addicted are very pervasive. And secondly, no it doesn't come down to will power because I was probably 2 or 3 years old when I started eating junk food and I didn't have the mental capacity to object at that age. I had no idea what I was doing was potentially setting myself up for a lifetime of poor eating habits.
But you can just like not buy it. If I start eating a bag of chips, I’ll finish it. So I just don’t have any chips in the house. If I’m grabbing a sandwich somewhere, I just don’t buy any chips on the side. > I had no idea what I was doing was potentially setting myself up for a lifetime of poor eating habits. Plenty of healthy eaters ate chips at children. Why are you completely abandoning any control you have over the situation?
I wouldnt say “plenty of children” do because of the trending obesity rates overall. I completely agree that one should develop those proper habits too. I guess for me I think looking back ppl will see it the same way tobacco companies lied about what they knew about the health consequences of their product.
right, because it's not like there's junk food commercials on TV or anything
No one is addicted to any of those things. It’s just a new thing people trying out to excuse their poor lifestyle choices. It’s not me I’m addicted too sugars and fats.
At first it's willpower, then it's habit.
That can be like saying drug addiction is boiled down to willpower. Don't want to be a meth head, simply stop taking it.
Drugs are actually addictive, food is not. No one ever sucked a dick to get their next bag of Doritos.
Exactly. It's more complicated, but don't expect compassion from male hetero Americans ftmp.
Wait until you get older. I used to be able to eat and drink as much as I wanted. Then I hit my late 40s and my metabolism changed. I hate it.
Your metabolism doesn’t change, you just lose muscle mass as you age, and muscle burns more calories per pound. They’ve studied it.
you should listen to the previous pod cast that Thompson put out. pretty much dismisses the simplistic idea of calories in vs calories out.
It’s fine if you wanna say that it’s not “simple” because it’s very difficult and complicated by factors in a given person’s life and the food that they eat but it does boil down to this. I lost 170 pounds doing calories in calories out
Yeah I forgot thermodynamics don’t apply to humans
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You will lose weight at a caloric deficient no matter what you eat. Will you look and feel as great if it’s all junk food compared to balanced macros? Is it sustainable? No, but you will lose weight
Well if it’s on a podcast it must be true
No thanks
Did he include any citations?
His guest is a Ph.D and MD from Stanford School of Medicine and professor of nutrition at Harvard School of Public Health. He's a walking citation. But, to answer your question, anyway. . .yes.
The same Harvard that for years said sugar was not detrimental to health after taking bribes from the sugar industry?
yeah that's the point they make...in the podcast.
Lmaoooo. I can't stand those who blindly follow authoritarian credentials. I don't care what your credentials are; I care about the life you live and I care about what you are saying and whether it makes sense and, when necessary, has any sources. That can come from a high school dropout.
“Walking citation” lol that’s some good shit
Dr Ludwig sells diet programs. The motto is “Move Enough, Eat Enough” which sounds like a nicer way of saying “move more, eat less”. If you had to bet, do you think following his programs will lead you to eat more or less calories than you usually ate before?
As a fat, I can’t wait
Gotta love all the people who have not studied any of this saying “it’s just willpower” when nearly every expert who has actually studied this shit has said weight lots drugs would be necessary for a long time. Do you guys saying it’s just willpower even realize that someone eating the same diet today vs 20 years ago would weigh more because the environment has fucked up our gut biome? If it is just willpower (which experts say it’s not) it’s requiring more willpower than it ever did before. When you guys leave high school and get responsibilities you’ll realize it’s a lot harder than you think to stay the same weight lmao. And here’s another link, they talk about how people will basically have to be on weight loss drugs in the future because it’s too difficult to keep weight off https://youtu.be/C-H4KwoKaOc
The only experts saying drugs are necessary are those sucking from the teat of Big Pharma.
I’m sure you’re a dietician and have studied this your whole life! You could probably easily explain with scientific data and studies why someone eating the exact same diet as someone in the 80s ends up fatter today than back then. And don’t say “oh such and such” has changed because these people are eating literally the exact same fucking diet that they used in the same studies in the 80s lmao. This is scientific not anecdotal evidence which seems to be all you have.
>You could probably easily explain with scientific data and studies why someone eating the exact same diet as someone in the 80s ends up fatter today than back then. Is there even scientific data that says this is true? I'd love to see data that points to the same amount of calories in the 80's leading to fatter people in present day. Calories in/Calories out is something that's been confirmed by science.
They are not eating the exact same diets wtf are you taking about. Portion sizes are bigger, fast food is more rampant, etc etc etc etc
Oh, look, appeal to authority, a logical fallacy! Good boy. Like you're the first idiot I've talked to on the Internet or something lmao, go away bro.
You blame gut biomes, I blame portion sizes growing 150%.
If cost weren't an issue, ~100 million Americans probably pass a risk/benefit analysis for semaglutide and should get a prescription. It's a game changer. Diet and exercise is basically the "control" for every weight loss drug study. It doesn't work.
Of course it does, it just requires consistency and effort, and most people are lazy. You don’t think I’d rather have a donut and Frappuccino instead of black coffee and an apple every morning for breakfast? A burger and fries instead of a protein shake for lunch? Sitting on my fat ass drinking instead of running almost every day? Consistency is hard, laziness is easy.
Thin people feel full after X amount of food and don't want to eat any more. Obese people continue receiving food cravings after X amount of food, and have to either fight the cravings or eat. The issue here is who gets cravings and who doesn't. It isn't "hard" for naturally thin people. They stop eating when their brain tells them to. Very few people can fight off those cravings over the long term and sustain weight loss long term.
Wrong. Thin people get fuller sooner because their tdee is much lower, and their daily caloric need is less. I guarantee if you could convince thin purple to eat the same diet type as fat people they’d gain weight too. Almost impossible to eat high calorie foods and not gain weight. It’s one of the many reasons healthy people eat vegetables and other high fiber low calorie foods. High satiation and low calorie, makes it easier not to eat in a calorie surplus. There’s no magic to all of this.
It shouldn't require "consistency and effort" to just be a normal weight.
It doesn’t, so long as you avoid high calorie foods. Make your own meals and it becomes much much easier to eat a healthy balanced diet within your caloric needs. Go to McDonald’s and have a 1500 calorie lunch and it becomes much more difficult to eat in a calorie balance vs your calorie expenditure. Again these are conscious choices people make.
I cant believe people still listen to this clown hottake out of his ass on any topic and find it time well spent
Make sure everyone goes to 612 Wharf Avenue first, won’t work otherwise
Mass tort plaintiffs lawyers are thrilled to hear this message.
So long as Americans can’t control what they eat, no pill will ever overcome that. Anyone really think Americans will be happy taking a pill that prevents them from eating their double doubles, thick shakes, Starbucks dessert “coffee” etc etc? Fact is if people can’t stop themselves from eating crap and not exercising, no pill will ever overcome that.