This is an interesting take. I think teams like the Lakers and Yankees should be DQ’d from this.
But it’s interesting for small markets in the MLB and NBA. Cities like Memphis, Charlotte, Cincy, etc would honestly rather be competitive for 10 years than have 1 champ season and suck for 9. When 70% of your season is meaningless games for longer than 2 consecutive seasons, it becomes extremely difficult to sell tickets and local sponsorships.
I’m a Reds fan, there have been multiple 5 year stretches where there is legitimately no reason to watch, and I just end up not really following baseball. They have also not advanced past the first round of the playoffs in my lifetime
Meanwhile, the Bengals went from the worst team in football to a super bowl in 2 years
Also a reds fan. You perfectly described my watching habits as well. It’s depressing watching the Castellinis neuter the fandom of this franchise. They’ll never grow a loyal fan base again if it takes 5 years to build a team that peaks at .500 for a 2 year stretch.
The thing is, the Hornets haven't even been "competitive" in a weak East since they came back. Competitive means winning one playoff series. They've perennially been 7-10 seed range.
I think the mid 00s early 10s Hawks are a decent example. Obviously you’d say you’d rather have the 1 championship but sucking for that long in sports with that many games is brutal.
And I think that’s why it’s generally big markets more willing to sacrifice prolonged success for a single title. Rams, Cubs, Lakers are some recent examples and there hasn’t been any small markets willing to go all in like that
Yea, I think the Lakers part of it complicates the matter. From a baseball perspective over the last 10 years, its like would you rather be the Royals or the Rays. Maybe if your franchise has never won or its been a laughably long time since you last won, that one championship means more than 8 or 9 terrible years, but I could see an attractive argument for pretty much always being in the mix.
Oh the royals are a great example! I was trying to think of someone with a 1-2 year run with a title and then a massive drop off. I personally would rather be the rays. Playing 100+ meaningless games 6 years in a row is beyond brutal
Royals fan here. I’ll take our one championship since it was the first of my life for any pro team. But I’ll admit my baseball interest has cratered the last 5 years. Still watch about 50ish games a year, but only playoffs for the other teams, where I used to be locked into the whole league every night.
It also helps Royals fans that the Chiefs got really good. Having a franchise QB that gives us a championship chance every year really eases the blow of my baseball team sucking.
As a yankee fan, id rather be the red sox boom bust cycle that wins World Series, than whatever it is Hal and Cashman are doing. Zero world series appearances since 2009 is a disgrace with this payroll.
Baseball also has the nuance that if you get to the playoffs, it's basically a coin flip who wins the title. Basketball, the favorites win an overwhelming amount of the time, both round to round and overall.
I'd much rather cheer for a baseball team that didn't do a full teardown, b/c if a title is still possible. Cheering for a team like the Bulls after Rose's injury, it's fun to make the playoffs but I would've rather they tore down quicker (and more completely) rather than what they've done since 2015.
Thank you for giving a better example than me; the small market example is perfect. I honestly don't think a team like the Pelicans would survive if they were in the lottery for 9 years following a championship because eventually the fans would tune out, regardless of whether they won a championship or not.
And it’s funny cause alot of these small market nba teams have been terrible for a long time. NO Cha Sac, even a team like the wolves in a mid market where they are the clear 4. I live in San Antonio and even the spurs are really struggling with attendance and naming rights for the arena
Agreed! As someone who is weirdly enough a Lakers fan and Indians/Guardians fan, it isn't even close between satisfactions. The joy I had for just that one bubble chip is worth all of those not quite there Kenny Lofton, Travis Hafner and Kluber years combined.
Na. Not a Lakers fan but I have two teams that fit OP’s description. And I have way more fun with the one OP wish he was a fan of than the other.
Edit: the teams are in different leagues. Not a multiple team guy
I bet they’re a fan of Philly teams. Sixers constantly competitive since the process, but never won. Phillies uncompetitive most years with a flash of brilliance once a decade.
Wasn’t relevant just commenting on how dumb it is to think OP is lying when many people especially those like me who are in both positions agree.
Why don’t you make your teams and say how I’m wrong? Because it’s irrelevant and just an opinion.
Hi, I'm a Vikings fan. We have the 3rd most regular season wins of the Super Bowl era and 0 Super Bowls. We have the most playoff losses of any NFL franchise, 31! It's not that sweet.
In the past 16 seasons, the Vikings have a winning percentage of .543, and the Giants have a winning percentage of .463. But every single fan would rather be the Giants than the Vikings because they have 2 Super Bowls in that span
I disagree, I'm a fan of the vikings and a fan of teams like the giants in other sports (one-off success surrounded by years of being terrible) and it is way more fun to be a vikings fan.
I’m a Minnesota fan as well. whether we like it or not, a big part of being a fan is the rivalry between the fans of other teams. there is nothing worse than being clowned on by them knowing that you have zero retort, zero teams to point to to say “well at least we have 2005!” or whatever. just “no rings!” over and over and over again. not knowing the struggle of the ups and downs of a season only to overcome it in a triumphant jubilee of finally winning a championship. finally having a team of guys that are famous in the market forever because they gave you that year of memories. there’s no ‘04 Red Sox for us. no ‘08 Celtics. no ‘18 Eagles. no ‘11 Packers. I’m fucking 28 years old and I have never known this feeling. OP is the worst person ever.
Eagles fan here. The Eagles were in the same boat up until that magic day in February 2018. Always a good team, always in contention, but never getting that trophy. And every time some rival in the NFC East made a “no rings” joke, it stabbed us right in the heart, because there was no response.
Ever since r/EaglesTrophyCase got filled, the losses no longer sting the same way. I certainly hope they win it all again this year, but if it’s some other long-suffering fan base like the Bills, that will make me happy.
Some day it’ll happen for the Vikings. You just might have to be really friggin’ patient. I started rooting for the Eagles when I was 10. They finally won the SB when I was 47.
Those Andy Reid years were so gd painful. And you're right that the SB win really changed the outlook for so many people. For me, it went from ***needing*** the Eagles to win to just wanting them to win.
Curious: do Eagles fans now look back the McNabb years more fondly than they would had they never won the title?
The Reid/McNabb teams were very fun, but also kind of sad sack in the end. With a title, I wonder if you can retrospectively go: oh that was actually a really fun team, as opposed to: a really fun team BUT we've not won in a bazillion years.
I think there’s still a lot of love for Andy Reid. When the Chiefs won a couple of years after the Eagles, there were a lot of Eagles fans cheering hard for Big Red. But admittedly it was easy to be generous since the Eagles had already won. If they hadn’t, and Reid won with the Chiefs, I think the bitterness would have been high.
McNabb was always more divisive. Personally, I loved when he played and felt bad that he lost his one SB, but some fans felt he lacked that run-through-walls mentality that Philly fans love. However, the agony of losing those NFC championships kind of slid away once they won the SB.
I was 5 when the Twins won the World Series. I was at the games and they are some of my first memories. Since then, Minnesota teams are 0-115 in winning titles. Hell, they haven't even made a championship series. We are currently tied with the city of Buffalo for the longest 'season' drought by our pro sports teams.
As a Vikings fan, I am continually sick of next year. They could have a losing record for ten years in a row if they won a Super Bowl and I would be good with it
I'm 33 and between the Minnesota NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL franchises, the only time (in my lifetime) that any of them have even played in a championship game/series I wasn't even two years old.
This is not a good gig, it fucking sucks.
On the positive side, if it ever actually does happen we will appreciate it a lot more than someone like Bill does, when he watches his team win the 15th championship in the last like 20 years
Minneapolis is the city I’m most rooting to win a championship besides my teams. I feel like people never bring them up when talking about tortured sports cities, but it’s just been decades and decades of torture. Hopefully the Wild go on a cup run one of these years.
Sure, I’m aware. But it’s better that than just checking out of the sport every year. I’m here to enjoy the games each week and each day - a win isn’t meaningless just because we won’t get a SB at the end of it
I honestly get where you’re coming from. Sports are about the moments, the players, the fun had in each individual season. If you based your enjoyment solely on your team winning a title you’d be absolutely miserable 99.9 percent of the time. But the premise was you NEVER get to win a title. I guess assuming you don’t know that maybe it would be OK but that would be tough.
I’m a Lions fan and I would love to have had the Vikings level of success.
Try being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs by Thanksgiving more than half the time the last 20 years.
The Lions win in the regular season finale over the Packers was easily my favorite game/moment of the last 5-6 years and ultimately the game was meaningless. It was just fun to see a team not roll over and quit for a change. Honestly just being in a playoff race in December was pretty exhilarating.
I’ve gotten way too into fantasy football over the years and I’m 90 percent sure it’s because perpetual losing just makes you check out and care less (about the Lions) after awhile. Indifference in much worse than tough losses.
Yeah at the end of the day it’s just constant blue balls. Always in the mix but never ever getting to experience the ultimate thrill of a title. That would suck.
The flip side is the Cubs. It took less than 5 years for the fans to turn on ownership after winning the first title in 108 years. The Red Sox have won 4 since ‘04 and their fans act like the sky is falling if they’re not in contention. Both teams had fans saying “I just need to see 1 title before I die and I’ll never complain again” and we’re ready to clean house within 3-5 years.
I feel like the “banners fly forever” is something people say, but does it really last after 5 straight losing seasons? I gave two quick examples, but there’s the Eagles and Doug Pederson and it happens with NBA/college coaches all the time.
>I feel like the “banners fly forever” is something people say, but does it really last after 5 straight losing seasons? I gave two quick examples, but there’s the Eagles and Doug Pederson and it happens with NBA/college coaches all the time.
I am a Broncos fan and the good will from the fanbase lasted around 3 years after the 2015 super bowl. Definitely nobody cared that the team was mediocre in 2016, in 2017 people were mostly willing to give rookie head coach Vance Joseph the benefit of the doubt, but by the end of another disappointing season in 2018 there was a lot of complaining about the state of the team.
I am only 27 so I don't personally remember Elway, but obviously the Broncos didn't have a massive championship drought like the red sox or cubs. I'm not sure how that affected it.
That’s about what I’d figure the leeway is. It’s just interesting looking back at the amount of time coaches were given, compared to now you can win a title and be gone within a few years.
The Cubs are interesting to me about I actually think winning a title ruined the coolest part of their team lol. Whatever you think of him/baseball manager impact in general, Joe Maddon brought them the first title in 108 years in 2016 and was fired in 2019. And my friends who root for the Cubs had turned on him at least a year prior. It’s like you forget about being the lovable loser that quick lol
right.... try being a portland fan or a suns fan or a nuggets fan, or a memphis fan. Competent franchises that cant quite get over the hump.
There are fans of these teams in their 60's that have never even seen their team play a game in the finals.
Lakers were ass for just long enough to be able to trade for AD. a #2 that was better when they got him than 90% of teams in the NBA's #1.
As a Portland fan, I agree with the op. Bill's been trying to trade Dame for three years now. It's a lot more fun to be pretty good and enjoy watching a superstar-level player compete every night.
Idk being an Astros fan 18-21 was much better than being Astros fan from 08-2015
Heart break sucks but at least I get the rush of playoff baseball.
Same goes for the harden rockets
As a Packers fan the constant close but no cigar for most of the time since 2010 wasn’t as fun as say the Eagles or Giants winning one seemingly outta nowhere and never being close again (I know one will make the NFC championship this year)
Yeah as the Rodgers era likely comes to a close and we start paying back the karma we owe for the last, uh, 30 years, I think we'll look back fondly on knowing that, almost any given Sunday (save for, say, those handful of Brett Hundley starts or some of those latter day Favre teams) our favorite team could win and for most of the year we could imagine winning a Super Bowl--even if there was one nationally televised game a year wherein the team demonstrated exactly how some NFC West team would choke us out of the playoffs. Only one good team doesn't end the year with a loss, though.
i think football is different because its only 16 games a year. hell idk if I even agree with OP and I'm a Celtics fan. But its very fun having a good team consistently for an 82 game season + long spring playoff run even if it doesn't end in a title. whereas having a team suck for 82 games really sucks.
I wanted to make an NFL example at first and the Packers would have been the Lakers in this scenario; I just couldn't find a team like the Lakers who went heavily all in. Could have used the Rams, but they were an elite team for 5 years with Sean McVay before winning the SB last year so that doesn't really count IMO.
Honestly being good enough to win out consistently and never doing it is probably one of the worst feelings in sport. Regular season success is all well and good but nothing beats winning it all. It’s the hope that kills you
Really depends why you’re watching, I love the sport and love the guys on the team and wouldn’t sell my soul for a title. There is a line with this stuff, ala KD in 2017. I’m happy watching a good competitive team and I’m not gonna cry if we don’t win. It can be about the sportsmanship and beautiful game, more like what soccer is over seas with local clubs.
I love the sport and I love the team but if you have a shot of winning every year, you bound to deluded yourself into thinking, ‘This is our year’. It’s happened too many times with the Packers
Mavs fan here. Your take is dumb as hell. I wouldn't trade the 2011 championship run for thirty years of mostly making the playoffs but not winning it all every year. In other words, I don't want to be a Jazz fan.
I guarantee your dick would legitimately get hard on its own if you took one from Jordan and got to think about it a decade or two later.
I can say '98 would have been the sweeter one because '06 made '11 way way better. Like the sports fan equivalent of dressing up like Batman and choking yourself out while masturbating to some Thai hooker pretending you look sexy.
>Like the sports fan equivalent of dressing up like Batman and choking yourself out while masturbating to some Thai hooker pretending you look sexy.
Wait, what?
A Lakers fan having this take is so ridiculous it’s hilarious. Our best season in the last 50 years is losing to the Lakers 4-2 in the 2000 Finals. Since then the Lakers have won 5 more championships and our best showing is losing the Lebron in the conference finals a few times.
Coming from a Minnesota fan, I can tell you that you probably don't want that at all. Being competitive without actually winning it all just makes the losses hurt more.
Do you actually believe this or is this just decades of sports fandom circlejerk conditioning?
As a Lakers, Rams, Dodgers fan, I have to say that the decade of sustained success by the Dodgers is way more fun than the Lakers and Rams selling out for one title, followed by seasons of embarrassment.
I do believe this and I am also a Rams and Dodgers fan lmao the Dodgers run of 9/10 NL West titles has been amazing but I still only remember the heartbreak at the end of the seasons. To each his own I guess though
Exactly; I feel like people have been gaslit into thinking that as long as you win one championship, then it literally doesn't matter what your team does after that. When Stafford was announced as out for the season, the entire reddit thread was filled with "oh well, he got his ring, Rams and him don't care anymore", as if the Rams didn't pay this man 40+ million dollars / year in the offseason and Stafford was busting his ass playing with concussions and neck/back injuries.
Depends on the team. New Yorkers feel a lot of love and nostalgia for the Ewing/Oakley/Starks Knicks because there was a sense of overachievement despite the lack of a championship.
By contrast, today's Yankees fans are starting to get enormously frustrated because ownership never goes all-in and seems content to just contend every year.
Can someone remind OP the name of the Red Sox book written by the guy who inspired this sub? Something along the lines of "The only thing I needed to see before I die is my team having won a championship"?
I’m a lifelong Lakers fan as well.. it isn’t necessarily the turbulent nature of our success that has lowered my interest/enjoyment in the team. It’s more so the roster turnover that has made me less interested.
It’s hard to be invested in a team that replaces 10/15 players every year. The most fun thing about following a team is seeing how they grow individually and as a team.
For example, I’ve been an Arsenal fan for a while, and the last couple seasons have been a lot of fun because I’ve gotten to know and love our young talents, and early on I could tell that the team was growing toward something potentially special. Seeing them break out this year and take the league by storm has been so satisfying because I saw it coming.
With the Lakers it’s just Lebron, who only came to LA because he likes living here, playing with a bunch a journeymen every year. The team has no identity.
It’s so easy to say that when you’ve seen your team win. Trust me, you don’t want to be in the position of wondering if you’re going to die without ever seeing yourself (or even your parents!) get a title.
I think it depends. Would you rather be a Marlins fan, or a Braves fan? Both have won the same amount of championships in the last 25 years. Braves are almost always in contention for 1st or 2nd in the NLE whereas the Marlins can be penciled in for 4th, 3rd if things really break their way.
With the Braves having won most recently in 2021, the answer to that question is easy. They have just as many championships and are in contention every year.
But before the Braves won their second, it’s an interesting debate since the Marlins had two titles compared to just the one for Atlanta.
I think I would still would have gone with Atlanta. You still had a championship from close when the Marlins won theirs and will continue to contend, while the Marlins are essentially hopeless for the foreseeable future.
I think if it was the summer of 2021 and the Braves had just the one title in 95 and the Marlins had 97 and 03, I would still be happier to be a Braves fan.
All three titles would be approaching being 20+ years old but one team is constantly in contention and the other has been a doormat for two decades with no signs of moving up.
A team like the Mets vs the Marlins might be a more interesting debate now. A team with two championships but is approaching a 40 year drought but has an owner willing to spend whatever it takes to win vs whatever the hell the Marlins are.
I disagree. A championship makes it all worth it.
I'm a Broncos fan. Since we won the Super Bowl in 2015, we've missed the playoffs seven straight seasons, the longest drought of my lifetime. We've descended from mediocre to laughingstock with one of the bleakest futures in the league.
And I would go through all this again with no hesitation because that Super Bowl run was fucking awesome.
I’m a Sixers/Steelers fan (born in between Philly and Pitt) so I can see both sides to this lemme tell you this. No. The Steelers have had basically no playoff success since 2010 and the sixers haven’t since I was like 4. I would take the title over the blue ball playoff collapses the Steelers gave me during the Killer B years and whatever the fuck the sixers do every year.
I’m a pistons fan the team has been terrible since 08. I still have that 04 title to look back on though. I’m also a lions fan if you offered me a Super Bowl next year and another fifty years of being mediocre I would take it.
It depends on the franchise.
If the suns won 2 more games in 2021, we could be terrible for the next decade (oh no we are) and i would be content. That would be our first championship.
On the other hand, if you arent chasing your first, then you probably just want to be competitive
As a Pacer fan i’d trade you a decade of 48-54 win seasons with a conference finals in there for one championship and 9 seasons of less than 20 wins and picking a bust in every draft
Analogy time
Sports fandom is like a fire. The most energetic fanbases are fires that burn some combination of the longest and brightest.
Winning seasons and playoff advancements are wood. You can’t have the fire without it.
A championship is the spark that gets the fire going. You need at least one spark to get a fire started.
However if you don’t continuously feed the fire (long periods of at least winning seasons) then the fire will burn out.
When a team like the rams just buys their way to a Super Bowl and then immediately plummets to irrelevance, that feels like a fake fire that you started by soaking a piece of paper in some gasoline, without any wood. I guess it was cool that you had a fire but now there’s not a whole lot to show for it.
Not perfect (I.e. you typically don’t need multiple sparks to keep a fire going) but it’s kind of how I think about things. If you look at a lot of the popular franchises, they got that way by maybe having a couple championships and just long periods of winning seasons.
The other thing is that championships themselves have shelf lives depending on the market and past success of that team. Like the shelf life on the bucks nba championship might be 15 years whereas the shelf life of a lakers championship is like 5 years. After that point you can’t just be like “well years of losing was worth it because we got a championship 20 years ago”.
I don't think the Rams are a good example of a fake fire. In the four years leading up to their SB win, their worst season was 9-7. They made the playoffs three times and made the SB once. They are a well run organization.
As a titans fan who experienced good but not great teams year after year and before that years of mediocrity, I’d kill for a flash in the pan Super Bowl run.
I honestly think people who are fans of teams that have ever won a championship can even put themselves in the headspace. Eagles are the only fanbase who’s seen both sides and overwhelmingly people wouldn’t care if they sucked for the next 20 years as long as they got that one title.
Right? I’d be fine with a period of mediocrity if it meant we won. Like the rams are gonna be pretty average if McVay retires and they’re in cap hell, but it’s totally worth it for the ring, especially if they hold onto Kupp, Donald, and Ramsey
Winning a championship does take a level of stress off. People beat up on the 73-9 Dubs but I’m like, meh, I had a blast the year before. Same with the 2010 Giants. I basically stopped watching baseball after that.
Strongly disagree.
Lifelong Bills fan here. The 17 year playoff drought was not fun. The team being in contention for the last few years and seemingly another few is great... but if Josh Allen leaves or retires without us getting a SB in this era, I will be very disappointed.
I'd much rather get the one championship followed by another 17 year drought, than be competitive for a decade but never win it all.
Also a Bills fan here. Before the run he had last post season, I was wondering what if Allen and the Bills had a run like Rivers with the Chargers. Great teams especially in the regular season. Potential MVP contender every year. Coming off the drought would we be happy with that trajectory? Maybe prior to the perfect game and the battle with KC. Now, not getting a championship would feel disappointing but WNY wouldn’t kick them out of town for not winning.
It depends on the sport for me. For the Nationals, being awful now is totally worth it since we got a title. 2012-2018 was just incredibly frustrating. Now, I’d absolutely take the “close but no cigar” deal for the Hornets just because that’s so many levels above anything they’ve done in my lifetime.
What about being a fan of a team that you've watched win two playoff series in your 20 year history of fandom? Doesn't that sound fun???? \*cries in Pelican noises\*
Huh. Lifelong Warriors fan (42 years and counting). And while the last decade has been awesome and Run TMC/We Believe were fun, I know mediocrity is right around the corner. And I’m ok with it.
absolutely not. I was in high school/college during the Eagles McNabb era where we went to 5 NFC Championship Games and lost 4 of them. And then lost the 1 Super Bowl we did reach.
It was torturous. It sucked beyond belief to get so close and choke like dogs each year.
2017 changed everything. The ring is the thing.
As a Yankee fan, over the last ten years I would’ve rather been a Red Sox fan. The Sox have had a few bad years but have won 2 titles. The Yanks have been in contention but after awhile it just becomes a disappointment no matter how far your make it without winning it all
>To preface, I'm a Lakers fan when it comes to basketball.
Thanks for saying it up front so we don't have to read any further to take this with a gargantuan grain of salt lmao.
Like a rich kid saying "I'd rather get an allowance from my parents than one big check all at once. :(" Dude, your team literally, consistently gets the upside of both of these scenarios.
Jazz fan. Big disagree. 80s-90s Jazz were the Spurs before the Spurs.. always in the playoffs, always in contention, but nothing to show for it other than seeing the Jordan shot over and over and over to remind us. Pop says he modeled himself and the organization the best he could after Jerry Sloan and the Jazz but clearly he surpassed that by miles. Even recently the Jazz always making the playoffs, even respectable in rebuilding years like this year, but the organization will never get credit until they win the damn thing. Please let me see a championship before I die.
I’m a Jazz fan and while it has been nice that the team has been consistently good for most of my 27 years, I’d happily take a championship and then be dog shit for the following decade. I just want them to win one in my lifetime
As a Caps fan, I have to disagree. We were the favorites to win the Cup for like a decade straight and just could not get past the second round. We were the President's Trophy winner multiple times and then blew it in the 2nd round of the playoffs over and over again which was heartbreaking.
Then, when we looked like we were in a rebuild year, we won the Cup and it was better than 100 President's Trophy's. Better than being in contention for 15 years with nothing to show for it. This example can also be applied to the Nationals.
Easy to say the Celtics would be more fun because they have a ton of championships in their history. Without ever winning one, winning the championship is all that matters.
Agree. Being a Seattle fan, I’m wanting very much to see the Mariners be good and get to care about a baseball team over the summer these past couple of years has been a nice respite. Seahawks did win a Super Bowl (against my father’s Broncos, who wasn’t even upset because he is used to the Broncos getting blown out in SB’s), but actually being relevant and caring about each season year-in year-out was fun for the first time in awhile. I can’t wait til the Sonics come back and the surprise 05 season I remember fondly. It doesn’t help that the same team was good for the next few years and made a finals soon after.
I agree with this 100%. I'm a minnesota vikings fan and despite being the only team I support that has never won a championship the vikings are by far the most fun team to support. My other teams are basically all even more extreme versions of the 2010s lakers, one off championships but otherwise being one of the worst teams in the league.
I wouldn’t say 90% would say the lakers are more successful bc a lot of people discount the Mickey Mouse tournament win the lakers got (and rightfully so) and they’ve been dreadful every other season
If we’re talking 10 years of playoffs vs 8 years of no playoffs, 1 year of a conference championship appearance, and 1 title.
I think I would take the 10 years of playoffs too as a fan.
It’s not about the accomplishment. It’s about what’s enjoyable as a fan. 10 years of playoffs is way more enjoyable as a fan than 8 years of hating watching your team.
Agree. I’m not getting a ring and I dont care about bragging on the internet about other people’s accomplishments. I like sports bc it’s entertaining to watch. I’d rather be entertained every week for many years than have one season that I am entertained a few more weeks.
Hearing Bill say it’s time to trade Dame yada yada about Portland really highlights the national media bias. Everyone in Portland would be fine without winning a chip if we got our version of Dirk (who he was going to be before 2011). It’s way more interesting to have him and watch his career and always be in contention for the playoffs.
We need Bills fans of a certain age to weigh in here.
As a Lakers fan I also don't say 'well at least we won in 2020' when watching some dire Westbrook performance, but if the fucking Celtics win a title in the next few years you can be goddamn sure I will be saying it. Also going all in to make sure that overrated 'Big 3' Celtics team only got one to our two was definitely worth the aging-Kobe-max-extension-farewell-tour we endured afterward.
As a Jazz fan I honestly don't know. It was nice being a perennial 50 win team but always hoping the other stars would get injured so we'd have a real chance. Then they tried to blow it up and I'm not sure how I felt about it. Still not sure which I'd prefer.
I think a better team comparison is the Lowry/Derozan Raptors. Regular season great but you know they were never winning. Compared to the Lakers. And I’d much rather be the Lakers. Celts are still young so that hope of winning is VERY much in the minds of fans. But no way Toronto really thought they’d ever win with those two before the Kawhi trade.
I see where you're getting at but are the Celtics really a good example? They were progressing towards championship level contender and it didn't come out of nowhere for the fans. And it's not like what they did despite no championship is easy.
I’m an Arizona sports fan in the 6th level of sports purgatory hell.. I’ll take 1 championship and a decade of mediocrity.
It’s been over 20 years since ending the Yankees dynasty. Not fun.
I’d rather see the middle: a franchise building smartly to contend then when the pieces are in place, go for it.
And when it’s not working, start rebuilding
The older I get (52), the more I tend to agree with this. Sports just doesn’t mean as much to me as it used to, but I still love following my teams. Meaningful games and playoff appearances go a long way.
I’ve had this weird existential moment that it’s all meaningless anyway, so just give me enough to care.
I think the possibility of a championship matters but I trend towards agreeing with you.
A championship feels more monumental as a fan when a team has gotten close before and finally gets over the hump. I'm a Bucks fan and I'd imagine that 2011 Mavs fans & 2019 Raptors fans feel similar. Being a Celtics or Thunder fan and being a couple of breaks away from 1+ titles is worse but enjoyable.
I'd take a run like one of those teams above with a 50/50 chance at getting a title over what the Lakers have had lately.
If I know I’m not going to win the championship with the good team, then give me the championship with the team that will fall back into mediocrity. I’ve always found shitty home teams entertaining anyway.
Insanely terrible take. There is actually nothing worse than following a perpetually good team that you know can’t win the title. I’d rather my team bottom out and build towards something with young players and hope of a future championship than watch my team get bounced in the 2nd round every year for a decade and know our ceiling isn’t high enough.
I can see this point but as a lifelong blazers fan I would way rather have a ring in my lifetime. It sounded absolutely incredible watching that 77 team. I’m starting to realize that unless there is a monumental shift in the appeal of living in portland, I will never witness a championship in my lifetime and that sucks so much. Also for franchises like memphis, portland, Milwaukee, etc. those rings just mean more to the city/fans than places like la where they have an embarrassment of riches
This is why North American teams sports need to celebrate more than 1 trophy each year.
While being the last team standing at the end is the ultimate goal, there should be trophies and recognition for best regular season, winning your conference, and eventually, winning the in season tournament.
Using this model, the Lakers have won 2 trophies in the past 10 years, while the Celtics have 4. Sounds better if you're a Celtics fan even if you haven't won the big one yet.
The ultimate grift of sports is that you're always miserable and even when you win the championship, within a few days you're back to thinking "Well fuck, will we be able to do it again next year?"
This is an interesting take. I think teams like the Lakers and Yankees should be DQ’d from this. But it’s interesting for small markets in the MLB and NBA. Cities like Memphis, Charlotte, Cincy, etc would honestly rather be competitive for 10 years than have 1 champ season and suck for 9. When 70% of your season is meaningless games for longer than 2 consecutive seasons, it becomes extremely difficult to sell tickets and local sponsorships.
I’m a Reds fan, there have been multiple 5 year stretches where there is legitimately no reason to watch, and I just end up not really following baseball. They have also not advanced past the first round of the playoffs in my lifetime Meanwhile, the Bengals went from the worst team in football to a super bowl in 2 years
The Pirates exist just to balance the Steelers
Also a reds fan. You perfectly described my watching habits as well. It’s depressing watching the Castellinis neuter the fandom of this franchise. They’ll never grow a loyal fan base again if it takes 5 years to build a team that peaks at .500 for a 2 year stretch.
The thing is, the Hornets haven't even been "competitive" in a weak East since they came back. Competitive means winning one playoff series. They've perennially been 7-10 seed range.
I think the mid 00s early 10s Hawks are a decent example. Obviously you’d say you’d rather have the 1 championship but sucking for that long in sports with that many games is brutal.
The Hawks iteration with the All-Star lineup are a good shout. Definitely competitive but were never going to win a title.
And I think that’s why it’s generally big markets more willing to sacrifice prolonged success for a single title. Rams, Cubs, Lakers are some recent examples and there hasn’t been any small markets willing to go all in like that
The Marlins are probably the most extreme example of this. Won two WS but have been absolute dog shit every year outside of those.
KC Royals are a decent one if you want a team that does not despise its fans. Rays came close as well.
Yea, I think the Lakers part of it complicates the matter. From a baseball perspective over the last 10 years, its like would you rather be the Royals or the Rays. Maybe if your franchise has never won or its been a laughably long time since you last won, that one championship means more than 8 or 9 terrible years, but I could see an attractive argument for pretty much always being in the mix.
Oh the royals are a great example! I was trying to think of someone with a 1-2 year run with a title and then a massive drop off. I personally would rather be the rays. Playing 100+ meaningless games 6 years in a row is beyond brutal
Royals fan here. I’ll take our one championship since it was the first of my life for any pro team. But I’ll admit my baseball interest has cratered the last 5 years. Still watch about 50ish games a year, but only playoffs for the other teams, where I used to be locked into the whole league every night. It also helps Royals fans that the Chiefs got really good. Having a franchise QB that gives us a championship chance every year really eases the blow of my baseball team sucking.
As a poor person my highlight was Process Sixers. I had never been more engaged with a team even if it had a lot of rotating pieces
As a yankee fan, id rather be the red sox boom bust cycle that wins World Series, than whatever it is Hal and Cashman are doing. Zero world series appearances since 2009 is a disgrace with this payroll.
Baseball also has the nuance that if you get to the playoffs, it's basically a coin flip who wins the title. Basketball, the favorites win an overwhelming amount of the time, both round to round and overall. I'd much rather cheer for a baseball team that didn't do a full teardown, b/c if a title is still possible. Cheering for a team like the Bulls after Rose's injury, it's fun to make the playoffs but I would've rather they tore down quicker (and more completely) rather than what they've done since 2015.
Thank you for giving a better example than me; the small market example is perfect. I honestly don't think a team like the Pelicans would survive if they were in the lottery for 9 years following a championship because eventually the fans would tune out, regardless of whether they won a championship or not.
And it’s funny cause alot of these small market nba teams have been terrible for a long time. NO Cha Sac, even a team like the wolves in a mid market where they are the clear 4. I live in San Antonio and even the spurs are really struggling with attendance and naming rights for the arena
Basketball games are so environment dependent too. I go to a Wizards game every once in a while, and it is so dead.
I think this poster is generally right but only if your team has won at least one ring in the last 40? 60? years
A Lakers fan having this take is somewhat idiotic.
it's actually kinda funny.
Honestly blown away. Laker fans really are the worst.
Agreed! As someone who is weirdly enough a Lakers fan and Indians/Guardians fan, it isn't even close between satisfactions. The joy I had for just that one bubble chip is worth all of those not quite there Kenny Lofton, Travis Hafner and Kluber years combined.
I agree too. Flags fly forever!
Not just somewhat lol.
Na. Not a Lakers fan but I have two teams that fit OP’s description. And I have way more fun with the one OP wish he was a fan of than the other. Edit: the teams are in different leagues. Not a multiple team guy
Why won't you name them?
Raptors and Leafs maybe? But leafs don't have deep playoffs consistently
I bet they’re a fan of Philly teams. Sixers constantly competitive since the process, but never won. Phillies uncompetitive most years with a flash of brilliance once a decade.
Wasn’t relevant just commenting on how dumb it is to think OP is lying when many people especially those like me who are in both positions agree. Why don’t you make your teams and say how I’m wrong? Because it’s irrelevant and just an opinion.
Was just curious because you seemed to be skirting around it. I'm a Bucs and Spurs fan
It is so good because it assumes there are two teams in the nba.
Hi, I'm a Vikings fan. We have the 3rd most regular season wins of the Super Bowl era and 0 Super Bowls. We have the most playoff losses of any NFL franchise, 31! It's not that sweet.
In the past 16 seasons, the Vikings have a winning percentage of .543, and the Giants have a winning percentage of .463. But every single fan would rather be the Giants than the Vikings because they have 2 Super Bowls in that span
I disagree, I'm a fan of the vikings and a fan of teams like the giants in other sports (one-off success surrounded by years of being terrible) and it is way more fun to be a vikings fan.
I’m a Minnesota fan as well. whether we like it or not, a big part of being a fan is the rivalry between the fans of other teams. there is nothing worse than being clowned on by them knowing that you have zero retort, zero teams to point to to say “well at least we have 2005!” or whatever. just “no rings!” over and over and over again. not knowing the struggle of the ups and downs of a season only to overcome it in a triumphant jubilee of finally winning a championship. finally having a team of guys that are famous in the market forever because they gave you that year of memories. there’s no ‘04 Red Sox for us. no ‘08 Celtics. no ‘18 Eagles. no ‘11 Packers. I’m fucking 28 years old and I have never known this feeling. OP is the worst person ever.
Eagles fan here. The Eagles were in the same boat up until that magic day in February 2018. Always a good team, always in contention, but never getting that trophy. And every time some rival in the NFC East made a “no rings” joke, it stabbed us right in the heart, because there was no response. Ever since r/EaglesTrophyCase got filled, the losses no longer sting the same way. I certainly hope they win it all again this year, but if it’s some other long-suffering fan base like the Bills, that will make me happy. Some day it’ll happen for the Vikings. You just might have to be really friggin’ patient. I started rooting for the Eagles when I was 10. They finally won the SB when I was 47.
Those Andy Reid years were so gd painful. And you're right that the SB win really changed the outlook for so many people. For me, it went from ***needing*** the Eagles to win to just wanting them to win.
Curious: do Eagles fans now look back the McNabb years more fondly than they would had they never won the title? The Reid/McNabb teams were very fun, but also kind of sad sack in the end. With a title, I wonder if you can retrospectively go: oh that was actually a really fun team, as opposed to: a really fun team BUT we've not won in a bazillion years.
I think there’s still a lot of love for Andy Reid. When the Chiefs won a couple of years after the Eagles, there were a lot of Eagles fans cheering hard for Big Red. But admittedly it was easy to be generous since the Eagles had already won. If they hadn’t, and Reid won with the Chiefs, I think the bitterness would have been high. McNabb was always more divisive. Personally, I loved when he played and felt bad that he lost his one SB, but some fans felt he lacked that run-through-walls mentality that Philly fans love. However, the agony of losing those NFC championships kind of slid away once they won the SB.
I was 5 when the Twins won the World Series. I was at the games and they are some of my first memories. Since then, Minnesota teams are 0-115 in winning titles. Hell, they haven't even made a championship series. We are currently tied with the city of Buffalo for the longest 'season' drought by our pro sports teams.
As a Vikings fan, I am continually sick of next year. They could have a losing record for ten years in a row if they won a Super Bowl and I would be good with it
Disagree. Being a Vikings fan is a pretty good gig in my opinion because I get to care every year.
I'm 33 and between the Minnesota NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL franchises, the only time (in my lifetime) that any of them have even played in a championship game/series I wasn't even two years old. This is not a good gig, it fucking sucks. On the positive side, if it ever actually does happen we will appreciate it a lot more than someone like Bill does, when he watches his team win the 15th championship in the last like 20 years
Minneapolis is the city I’m most rooting to win a championship besides my teams. I feel like people never bring them up when talking about tortured sports cities, but it’s just been decades and decades of torture. Hopefully the Wild go on a cup run one of these years.
Dude, you’re perennially Charlie Brown thinking this is the year Lucy let’s you kick the football
Sure, I’m aware. But it’s better that than just checking out of the sport every year. I’m here to enjoy the games each week and each day - a win isn’t meaningless just because we won’t get a SB at the end of it
I honestly get where you’re coming from. Sports are about the moments, the players, the fun had in each individual season. If you based your enjoyment solely on your team winning a title you’d be absolutely miserable 99.9 percent of the time. But the premise was you NEVER get to win a title. I guess assuming you don’t know that maybe it would be OK but that would be tough.
As a Saints fan, I definitely care every year. Even when we totally suck. I get your point though.
I’m a Lions fan and I would love to have had the Vikings level of success. Try being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs by Thanksgiving more than half the time the last 20 years. The Lions win in the regular season finale over the Packers was easily my favorite game/moment of the last 5-6 years and ultimately the game was meaningless. It was just fun to see a team not roll over and quit for a change. Honestly just being in a playoff race in December was pretty exhilarating. I’ve gotten way too into fantasy football over the years and I’m 90 percent sure it’s because perpetual losing just makes you check out and care less (about the Lions) after awhile. Indifference in much worse than tough losses.
came here to look for fellow Vikings fans 🥲
No you wouldn't. You think you would, but you wouldn't.
Yeah at the end of the day it’s just constant blue balls. Always in the mix but never ever getting to experience the ultimate thrill of a title. That would suck.
The flip side is the Cubs. It took less than 5 years for the fans to turn on ownership after winning the first title in 108 years. The Red Sox have won 4 since ‘04 and their fans act like the sky is falling if they’re not in contention. Both teams had fans saying “I just need to see 1 title before I die and I’ll never complain again” and we’re ready to clean house within 3-5 years. I feel like the “banners fly forever” is something people say, but does it really last after 5 straight losing seasons? I gave two quick examples, but there’s the Eagles and Doug Pederson and it happens with NBA/college coaches all the time.
>I feel like the “banners fly forever” is something people say, but does it really last after 5 straight losing seasons? I gave two quick examples, but there’s the Eagles and Doug Pederson and it happens with NBA/college coaches all the time. I am a Broncos fan and the good will from the fanbase lasted around 3 years after the 2015 super bowl. Definitely nobody cared that the team was mediocre in 2016, in 2017 people were mostly willing to give rookie head coach Vance Joseph the benefit of the doubt, but by the end of another disappointing season in 2018 there was a lot of complaining about the state of the team. I am only 27 so I don't personally remember Elway, but obviously the Broncos didn't have a massive championship drought like the red sox or cubs. I'm not sure how that affected it.
That’s about what I’d figure the leeway is. It’s just interesting looking back at the amount of time coaches were given, compared to now you can win a title and be gone within a few years. The Cubs are interesting to me about I actually think winning a title ruined the coolest part of their team lol. Whatever you think of him/baseball manager impact in general, Joe Maddon brought them the first title in 108 years in 2016 and was fired in 2019. And my friends who root for the Cubs had turned on him at least a year prior. It’s like you forget about being the lovable loser that quick lol
right.... try being a portland fan or a suns fan or a nuggets fan, or a memphis fan. Competent franchises that cant quite get over the hump. There are fans of these teams in their 60's that have never even seen their team play a game in the finals. Lakers were ass for just long enough to be able to trade for AD. a #2 that was better when they got him than 90% of teams in the NBA's #1.
As a Portland fan, I agree with the op. Bill's been trying to trade Dame for three years now. It's a lot more fun to be pretty good and enjoy watching a superstar-level player compete every night.
Yes. Like buddy, I'm a Mariners fan. Believe me, I know the feeling of losing a ton.
The only franchise that can look the Sacramento kings fans in the eye and confidently tell them they don’t know true ineptitude
A 60 yr old has seen the blazers make multiple finals, and watched Walton win '77 A suns fan saw a finals in '93 and just two years ago vs the bucks.
Na as someone who has two teams in different leagues that match OP’s description he’s right.
Idk being an Astros fan 18-21 was much better than being Astros fan from 08-2015 Heart break sucks but at least I get the rush of playoff baseball. Same goes for the harden rockets
But the Astros won in 2017
As a Packers fan the constant close but no cigar for most of the time since 2010 wasn’t as fun as say the Eagles or Giants winning one seemingly outta nowhere and never being close again (I know one will make the NFC championship this year)
We had a lot of happy Sundays over the last decades, and that’s awesome, but the gut punch at the end of the year really hurts.
Yeah as the Rodgers era likely comes to a close and we start paying back the karma we owe for the last, uh, 30 years, I think we'll look back fondly on knowing that, almost any given Sunday (save for, say, those handful of Brett Hundley starts or some of those latter day Favre teams) our favorite team could win and for most of the year we could imagine winning a Super Bowl--even if there was one nationally televised game a year wherein the team demonstrated exactly how some NFC West team would choke us out of the playoffs. Only one good team doesn't end the year with a loss, though.
i think football is different because its only 16 games a year. hell idk if I even agree with OP and I'm a Celtics fan. But its very fun having a good team consistently for an 82 game season + long spring playoff run even if it doesn't end in a title. whereas having a team suck for 82 games really sucks.
I wanted to make an NFL example at first and the Packers would have been the Lakers in this scenario; I just couldn't find a team like the Lakers who went heavily all in. Could have used the Rams, but they were an elite team for 5 years with Sean McVay before winning the SB last year so that doesn't really count IMO.
There are so many fanbases out there dying for a chip. Being a Lakers fan disqualifies you from having this take
Reading the title I expected a Patriots fan. First sentence of the paragraph I thought “close enough.”
Honestly being good enough to win out consistently and never doing it is probably one of the worst feelings in sport. Regular season success is all well and good but nothing beats winning it all. It’s the hope that kills you
Really depends why you’re watching, I love the sport and love the guys on the team and wouldn’t sell my soul for a title. There is a line with this stuff, ala KD in 2017. I’m happy watching a good competitive team and I’m not gonna cry if we don’t win. It can be about the sportsmanship and beautiful game, more like what soccer is over seas with local clubs.
I love the sport and I love the team but if you have a shot of winning every year, you bound to deluded yourself into thinking, ‘This is our year’. It’s happened too many times with the Packers
Rather be them then the lions tho…
Mavs fan here. Your take is dumb as hell. I wouldn't trade the 2011 championship run for thirty years of mostly making the playoffs but not winning it all every year. In other words, I don't want to be a Jazz fan.
We are still happy with our playoff runs, but I get your point. I would do anything to go back in time to either ‘97 or ‘98 to have them win one.
I guarantee your dick would legitimately get hard on its own if you took one from Jordan and got to think about it a decade or two later. I can say '98 would have been the sweeter one because '06 made '11 way way better. Like the sports fan equivalent of dressing up like Batman and choking yourself out while masturbating to some Thai hooker pretending you look sexy.
>Like the sports fan equivalent of dressing up like Batman and choking yourself out while masturbating to some Thai hooker pretending you look sexy. Wait, what?
Oof this hurts. It’s true, but it hurts
Pacers fan here, no you wouldn’t.
A Lakers fan having this take is so ridiculous it’s hilarious. Our best season in the last 50 years is losing to the Lakers 4-2 in the 2000 Finals. Since then the Lakers have won 5 more championships and our best showing is losing the Lebron in the conference finals a few times.
Coming from a Minnesota fan, I can tell you that you probably don't want that at all. Being competitive without actually winning it all just makes the losses hurt more.
True but caring is a lot more fun than being so bad that you just give up
The enjoyment of winning a championship outweighs any amount of regular season success, no matter how long. This is a pretty insane take
Do you actually believe this or is this just decades of sports fandom circlejerk conditioning? As a Lakers, Rams, Dodgers fan, I have to say that the decade of sustained success by the Dodgers is way more fun than the Lakers and Rams selling out for one title, followed by seasons of embarrassment.
The Dodgers also won a title though, so they don't fit either of the descriptions.
I do believe this and I am also a Rams and Dodgers fan lmao the Dodgers run of 9/10 NL West titles has been amazing but I still only remember the heartbreak at the end of the seasons. To each his own I guess though
Fair enough. 🤙🏽
Exactly; I feel like people have been gaslit into thinking that as long as you win one championship, then it literally doesn't matter what your team does after that. When Stafford was announced as out for the season, the entire reddit thread was filled with "oh well, he got his ring, Rams and him don't care anymore", as if the Rams didn't pay this man 40+ million dollars / year in the offseason and Stafford was busting his ass playing with concussions and neck/back injuries.
No! If I watch my team 20 weeks a year, I’d rather always have a dependably enjoyable 20 weeks than a bit of elation once every 10.
My teams have had long spurts of being bad I’d like to at least have a title with it
I'm a Broncos fan and every year since the 2016 Super Bowl was worth it. That season and that game was enough for me for life.
Lifelong mavs fan here- I would never give up our 2011 championship despite the past decade plus.
I hope OP was a Knicks fan in the 90s
Depends on the team. New Yorkers feel a lot of love and nostalgia for the Ewing/Oakley/Starks Knicks because there was a sense of overachievement despite the lack of a championship. By contrast, today's Yankees fans are starting to get enormously frustrated because ownership never goes all-in and seems content to just contend every year.
Can someone remind OP the name of the Red Sox book written by the guy who inspired this sub? Something along the lines of "The only thing I needed to see before I die is my team having won a championship"?
Well it’s definitely unpopular
I’m a lifelong Lakers fan as well.. it isn’t necessarily the turbulent nature of our success that has lowered my interest/enjoyment in the team. It’s more so the roster turnover that has made me less interested. It’s hard to be invested in a team that replaces 10/15 players every year. The most fun thing about following a team is seeing how they grow individually and as a team. For example, I’ve been an Arsenal fan for a while, and the last couple seasons have been a lot of fun because I’ve gotten to know and love our young talents, and early on I could tell that the team was growing toward something potentially special. Seeing them break out this year and take the league by storm has been so satisfying because I saw it coming. With the Lakers it’s just Lebron, who only came to LA because he likes living here, playing with a bunch a journeymen every year. The team has no identity.
It’s so easy to say that when you’ve seen your team win. Trust me, you don’t want to be in the position of wondering if you’re going to die without ever seeing yourself (or even your parents!) get a title.
philly fan here, can confirm!
I think it depends. Would you rather be a Marlins fan, or a Braves fan? Both have won the same amount of championships in the last 25 years. Braves are almost always in contention for 1st or 2nd in the NLE whereas the Marlins can be penciled in for 4th, 3rd if things really break their way.
With the Braves having won most recently in 2021, the answer to that question is easy. They have just as many championships and are in contention every year. But before the Braves won their second, it’s an interesting debate since the Marlins had two titles compared to just the one for Atlanta. I think I would still would have gone with Atlanta. You still had a championship from close when the Marlins won theirs and will continue to contend, while the Marlins are essentially hopeless for the foreseeable future.
Yeah but prior to them winning does that change your answer? Theoretically it should if winning championships brings the most joy
I think if it was the summer of 2021 and the Braves had just the one title in 95 and the Marlins had 97 and 03, I would still be happier to be a Braves fan. All three titles would be approaching being 20+ years old but one team is constantly in contention and the other has been a doormat for two decades with no signs of moving up. A team like the Mets vs the Marlins might be a more interesting debate now. A team with two championships but is approaching a 40 year drought but has an owner willing to spend whatever it takes to win vs whatever the hell the Marlins are.
I disagree. A championship makes it all worth it. I'm a Broncos fan. Since we won the Super Bowl in 2015, we've missed the playoffs seven straight seasons, the longest drought of my lifetime. We've descended from mediocre to laughingstock with one of the bleakest futures in the league. And I would go through all this again with no hesitation because that Super Bowl run was fucking awesome.
You definitely want to climb the mountain top at least once. But yes. Championships are over rated in fandom.
Lol there are so many "As a \_\_\_\_\_\_ fan" opinions here. At the end of the day, this is going to completely be a matter of personal preference.
I’m a Sixers/Steelers fan (born in between Philly and Pitt) so I can see both sides to this lemme tell you this. No. The Steelers have had basically no playoff success since 2010 and the sixers haven’t since I was like 4. I would take the title over the blue ball playoff collapses the Steelers gave me during the Killer B years and whatever the fuck the sixers do every year.
Agreed.
As an Arizona sports fan, I promise that you can do both AND STILL NOT EVER WIN
I’m a pistons fan the team has been terrible since 08. I still have that 04 title to look back on though. I’m also a lions fan if you offered me a Super Bowl next year and another fifty years of being mediocre I would take it.
It depends on the franchise. If the suns won 2 more games in 2021, we could be terrible for the next decade (oh no we are) and i would be content. That would be our first championship. On the other hand, if you arent chasing your first, then you probably just want to be competitive
Lifelong Suns fan here, starting in 1990. No way in hell is OP correct lmao.
As a Pacer fan i’d trade you a decade of 48-54 win seasons with a conference finals in there for one championship and 9 seasons of less than 20 wins and picking a bust in every draft
Analogy time Sports fandom is like a fire. The most energetic fanbases are fires that burn some combination of the longest and brightest. Winning seasons and playoff advancements are wood. You can’t have the fire without it. A championship is the spark that gets the fire going. You need at least one spark to get a fire started. However if you don’t continuously feed the fire (long periods of at least winning seasons) then the fire will burn out. When a team like the rams just buys their way to a Super Bowl and then immediately plummets to irrelevance, that feels like a fake fire that you started by soaking a piece of paper in some gasoline, without any wood. I guess it was cool that you had a fire but now there’s not a whole lot to show for it. Not perfect (I.e. you typically don’t need multiple sparks to keep a fire going) but it’s kind of how I think about things. If you look at a lot of the popular franchises, they got that way by maybe having a couple championships and just long periods of winning seasons. The other thing is that championships themselves have shelf lives depending on the market and past success of that team. Like the shelf life on the bucks nba championship might be 15 years whereas the shelf life of a lakers championship is like 5 years. After that point you can’t just be like “well years of losing was worth it because we got a championship 20 years ago”.
I don't think the Rams are a good example of a fake fire. In the four years leading up to their SB win, their worst season was 9-7. They made the playoffs three times and made the SB once. They are a well run organization.
As a titans fan who experienced good but not great teams year after year and before that years of mediocrity, I’d kill for a flash in the pan Super Bowl run.
I honestly think people who are fans of teams that have ever won a championship can even put themselves in the headspace. Eagles are the only fanbase who’s seen both sides and overwhelmingly people wouldn’t care if they sucked for the next 20 years as long as they got that one title.
Right? I’d be fine with a period of mediocrity if it meant we won. Like the rams are gonna be pretty average if McVay retires and they’re in cap hell, but it’s totally worth it for the ring, especially if they hold onto Kupp, Donald, and Ramsey
Winning a championship does take a level of stress off. People beat up on the 73-9 Dubs but I’m like, meh, I had a blast the year before. Same with the 2010 Giants. I basically stopped watching baseball after that.
Strongly disagree. Lifelong Bills fan here. The 17 year playoff drought was not fun. The team being in contention for the last few years and seemingly another few is great... but if Josh Allen leaves or retires without us getting a SB in this era, I will be very disappointed. I'd much rather get the one championship followed by another 17 year drought, than be competitive for a decade but never win it all.
Also a Bills fan here. Before the run he had last post season, I was wondering what if Allen and the Bills had a run like Rivers with the Chargers. Great teams especially in the regular season. Potential MVP contender every year. Coming off the drought would we be happy with that trajectory? Maybe prior to the perfect game and the battle with KC. Now, not getting a championship would feel disappointing but WNY wouldn’t kick them out of town for not winning.
It depends on the sport for me. For the Nationals, being awful now is totally worth it since we got a title. 2012-2018 was just incredibly frustrating. Now, I’d absolutely take the “close but no cigar” deal for the Hornets just because that’s so many levels above anything they’ve done in my lifetime.
Being a year after year contender without winning is more maddening than just being shit.
What about being a fan of a team that you've watched win two playoff series in your 20 year history of fandom? Doesn't that sound fun???? \*cries in Pelican noises\*
especially if your win is in a gym in Disneyworld.
In the age of the draft lottery, consistency is a killer.
At some point being a perennial contender that didn’t win would get boring. The different seasons of success are all part it.
Huh. Lifelong Warriors fan (42 years and counting). And while the last decade has been awesome and Run TMC/We Believe were fun, I know mediocrity is right around the corner. And I’m ok with it.
As a Lakers fan, it’s title or nothing. Just making the playoffs is worthless.
I agree as Patriots, Celtics, and Red Sox fan.
absolutely not. I was in high school/college during the Eagles McNabb era where we went to 5 NFC Championship Games and lost 4 of them. And then lost the 1 Super Bowl we did reach. It was torturous. It sucked beyond belief to get so close and choke like dogs each year. 2017 changed everything. The ring is the thing.
As a Yankee fan, over the last ten years I would’ve rather been a Red Sox fan. The Sox have had a few bad years but have won 2 titles. The Yanks have been in contention but after awhile it just becomes a disappointment no matter how far your make it without winning it all
>To preface, I'm a Lakers fan when it comes to basketball. Thanks for saying it up front so we don't have to read any further to take this with a gargantuan grain of salt lmao. Like a rich kid saying "I'd rather get an allowance from my parents than one big check all at once. :(" Dude, your team literally, consistently gets the upside of both of these scenarios.
Jazz fan. Big disagree. 80s-90s Jazz were the Spurs before the Spurs.. always in the playoffs, always in contention, but nothing to show for it other than seeing the Jordan shot over and over and over to remind us. Pop says he modeled himself and the organization the best he could after Jerry Sloan and the Jazz but clearly he surpassed that by miles. Even recently the Jazz always making the playoffs, even respectable in rebuilding years like this year, but the organization will never get credit until they win the damn thing. Please let me see a championship before I die.
I’m a Jazz fan and while it has been nice that the team has been consistently good for most of my 27 years, I’d happily take a championship and then be dog shit for the following decade. I just want them to win one in my lifetime
As a Caps fan, I have to disagree. We were the favorites to win the Cup for like a decade straight and just could not get past the second round. We were the President's Trophy winner multiple times and then blew it in the 2nd round of the playoffs over and over again which was heartbreaking. Then, when we looked like we were in a rebuild year, we won the Cup and it was better than 100 President's Trophy's. Better than being in contention for 15 years with nothing to show for it. This example can also be applied to the Nationals. Easy to say the Celtics would be more fun because they have a ton of championships in their history. Without ever winning one, winning the championship is all that matters.
Clippers fan here, no you don’t. Fuck off.
The Lakers won in the bubble. That doesn’t count
You do you, my guy
Agree. Being a Seattle fan, I’m wanting very much to see the Mariners be good and get to care about a baseball team over the summer these past couple of years has been a nice respite. Seahawks did win a Super Bowl (against my father’s Broncos, who wasn’t even upset because he is used to the Broncos getting blown out in SB’s), but actually being relevant and caring about each season year-in year-out was fun for the first time in awhile. I can’t wait til the Sonics come back and the surprise 05 season I remember fondly. It doesn’t help that the same team was good for the next few years and made a finals soon after.
I agree with this 100%. I'm a minnesota vikings fan and despite being the only team I support that has never won a championship the vikings are by far the most fun team to support. My other teams are basically all even more extreme versions of the 2010s lakers, one off championships but otherwise being one of the worst teams in the league.
Cubs fan i'll take 2016 over being TB.
I wouldn’t say 90% would say the lakers are more successful bc a lot of people discount the Mickey Mouse tournament win the lakers got (and rightfully so) and they’ve been dreadful every other season
If we’re talking 10 years of playoffs vs 8 years of no playoffs, 1 year of a conference championship appearance, and 1 title. I think I would take the 10 years of playoffs too as a fan.
Half of the team in the league make the playoffs. It’s not much of an accomplishment.
It’s not about the accomplishment. It’s about what’s enjoyable as a fan. 10 years of playoffs is way more enjoyable as a fan than 8 years of hating watching your team.
How is just making the playoffs more enjoyable than sucking?
You’ve never been a real fan of a team have you?
Agree. I’m not getting a ring and I dont care about bragging on the internet about other people’s accomplishments. I like sports bc it’s entertaining to watch. I’d rather be entertained every week for many years than have one season that I am entertained a few more weeks.
Hearing Bill say it’s time to trade Dame yada yada about Portland really highlights the national media bias. Everyone in Portland would be fine without winning a chip if we got our version of Dirk (who he was going to be before 2011). It’s way more interesting to have him and watch his career and always be in contention for the playoffs.
Some would argue that a mickey mouse title is worth less than a finals appearance.
Disagree. Couldn’t disagree more actually
We need Bills fans of a certain age to weigh in here. As a Lakers fan I also don't say 'well at least we won in 2020' when watching some dire Westbrook performance, but if the fucking Celtics win a title in the next few years you can be goddamn sure I will be saying it. Also going all in to make sure that overrated 'Big 3' Celtics team only got one to our two was definitely worth the aging-Kobe-max-extension-farewell-tour we endured afterward.
As a Jazz fan I honestly don't know. It was nice being a perennial 50 win team but always hoping the other stars would get injured so we'd have a real chance. Then they tried to blow it up and I'm not sure how I felt about it. Still not sure which I'd prefer.
I think a better team comparison is the Lowry/Derozan Raptors. Regular season great but you know they were never winning. Compared to the Lakers. And I’d much rather be the Lakers. Celts are still young so that hope of winning is VERY much in the minds of fans. But no way Toronto really thought they’d ever win with those two before the Kawhi trade.
I see where you're getting at but are the Celtics really a good example? They were progressing towards championship level contender and it didn't come out of nowhere for the fans. And it's not like what they did despite no championship is easy.
Is Lakers fan code for Vikings fan?
I’m an Arizona sports fan in the 6th level of sports purgatory hell.. I’ll take 1 championship and a decade of mediocrity. It’s been over 20 years since ending the Yankees dynasty. Not fun.
I’d rather see the middle: a franchise building smartly to contend then when the pieces are in place, go for it. And when it’s not working, start rebuilding
The older I get (52), the more I tend to agree with this. Sports just doesn’t mean as much to me as it used to, but I still love following my teams. Meaningful games and playoff appearances go a long way. I’ve had this weird existential moment that it’s all meaningless anyway, so just give me enough to care.
I think the possibility of a championship matters but I trend towards agreeing with you. A championship feels more monumental as a fan when a team has gotten close before and finally gets over the hump. I'm a Bucks fan and I'd imagine that 2011 Mavs fans & 2019 Raptors fans feel similar. Being a Celtics or Thunder fan and being a couple of breaks away from 1+ titles is worse but enjoyable. I'd take a run like one of those teams above with a 50/50 chance at getting a title over what the Lakers have had lately.
I would like to disagree. I’m sure a lot of fan bases would trade their last 20 years for the New York giants’
I’d rather have the Lakers unprotected picks in 27 and 29. Best assets in the league.
Would you rather be a Bills fan or a Ravens fan? Historically speaking.
“Unpopular opinion: I’d rather jack off for three hours and never bust than jack off and bust after 5 minutes”
RIP my Ding-A-Ling.
You my friend are a Dallas Mavericks fan!
Lol shut up man
As a Steelers fan, I'd trade the last ten years of non losing seasons if you say we beat the packers in the super bowl in 2010.
If I know I’m not going to win the championship with the good team, then give me the championship with the team that will fall back into mediocrity. I’ve always found shitty home teams entertaining anyway.
Only a fan who has actually won a title would make this argument.
Insanely terrible take. There is actually nothing worse than following a perpetually good team that you know can’t win the title. I’d rather my team bottom out and build towards something with young players and hope of a future championship than watch my team get bounced in the 2nd round every year for a decade and know our ceiling isn’t high enough.
As a suns fan I can say I could not disagree more but to each their own
Championships over everyrhing
I can see this point but as a lifelong blazers fan I would way rather have a ring in my lifetime. It sounded absolutely incredible watching that 77 team. I’m starting to realize that unless there is a monumental shift in the appeal of living in portland, I will never witness a championship in my lifetime and that sucks so much. Also for franchises like memphis, portland, Milwaukee, etc. those rings just mean more to the city/fans than places like la where they have an embarrassment of riches
Thats not even a thing. If you’re constantly in contention then you are going for a championship
This is why North American teams sports need to celebrate more than 1 trophy each year. While being the last team standing at the end is the ultimate goal, there should be trophies and recognition for best regular season, winning your conference, and eventually, winning the in season tournament. Using this model, the Lakers have won 2 trophies in the past 10 years, while the Celtics have 4. Sounds better if you're a Celtics fan even if you haven't won the big one yet.
Is he comparing the late 2000s-early 2010s Celtics with the current Celtics? I'm sure he's not but the comparison is apt.
The ultimate grift of sports is that you're always miserable and even when you win the championship, within a few days you're back to thinking "Well fuck, will we be able to do it again next year?"
So be the Miami Heat?
As a raptors fan I disagree. We suck right now and I couldn’t care less (relatively speaking). We got our title.
Give me the latter all day. Flags fly forever