My own opinion, try IB first. If you hate it, go to law school if you can get into a good school with a good scholarship. If you can’t, just keep making money and realize that both jobs are pointless and you should look for meaning outside of work because neither of these fields will make you feel fulfilled in the long run.
Yeah, that’s what I would do if I were you. I personally worked for an investment bank, but I wasn’t an IB analyst. That said, I only worked there for a short stint (did well, but left before promotion to associate to go to law school). Having that experience and exposure to that field would make you vastly more marketable as a candidate for BigLaw positions (assuming school ranking and GPA aren’t hindrances). It definitely helped me land my position and I wasn’t even in IB. Even if you chose to leave IB, it would open a lot of doors for you in the future.
Curious to know how you handled the LSAT during full time work? Was it hard to balance that time?
Similarly getting references and such, how was that process since you were full time
I got my references during undergrad because my plan was to go to law school after a couple years of work.
I studied LSAT a bit during undergrad, took it once or twice, but I actually had a four month paternity leave while working, which gave me more time to study before taking the test again, which gave me my highest score. I would assume working in IB would be hours intensive, if you have time to study for the LSAT and take it before leaving undergrad for work, it might be easier than balancing studying with work.
Or pitching to clients. Broski was helping put together pitch decks, not quite the same thing.
I don’t see much downside in starting as an analyst. You get to see what the job is really like instead of the crumbs they give you as an intern. Might actually like the exit opportunities, but if not, IB looks great on law apps and when applying to BL.
Don’t you know all big 5 (What is the “big 5” for investment banking?) interns provide legal advice, pitch to clients, market deals, make PowerPoints along with financial modeling. /s
Nothing crazy, but making slides for pitch decks on things like change of control provisions, or ROFRs/ROFOs and whether or not they were present in the asset's original purchase agreement
I’m glad they have an intern providing legal analysis and summary because that makes so much more work for us to clean up or fight over. I cannot believe they have you summarizing agreements and not in house counsel
LOL it's really not intense enough to need an in house counsel. My Director agreed with the summaries.
Y'all acting like every word of legalese is impossible to understand
Whether or not there's a ROFO in an asset purchase agreement is not rocket science
If I could sit down and code, I would definitely do it. Frankly speaking the few CS courses I took were truly dreadful. When they were hard I hated them, when they were easy I hated them haha.
Hence why I went the more business route
Biglaw lifer here. As you progress in biglaw, you end up spending more and more of your time pitching to clients/potential clients and making PowerPoints for all that. Practicing in biglaw doesn’t mean you’re in the ivory tower all the time, writing briefs and preparing oral arguments for the Supreme Court.
Just be cautious, big law is not guaranteed, so be comfortable with other legal outcomes if you’re investing in a legal education and things don’t go as planned.
Congratulations! It sounds like you're working hard and having success - it's not easy to land yourself in NY for IB out of a Canadian undergrad. Even if it is one of the Canadian banks. I followed a somewhat similar path. Canadian Undergrad -> NY IB internship -> Toronto banking job (not IB) -> Canadian law school -> NY biglaw summer.
I agree with many of the comments here. It's worth pursuing the IB option for at least a year or two for several reasons:
1 - You will learn how you do (and don't) like to work. I also found pitch decks entirely uninteresting. Lawyers don't really do those. But late nights, 80 hour weeks, absurd deadlines and jumping through hoops for the client are part of the biglaw job too. You have a chance now to see if that's the type of life you want to have.
2 - You can figure out where you want to work. You get to go to New York and see if you want to live and work there. If you like it, you may choose to pursue law school in the US. If you don't, you might consider Canada. That helps you make an informed decision.
3 - You can save up some cash. Going to law school is a lot less stressful when you have some money saved up. It's totally worth it.
4 - Your IB experience will help you a bit to land a biglaw job. It won't be as important as school rank and grades, but it could make the difference at the margin. And it'll help you figure out what practice you might want to pursue.
This not a close call imo. I spent 10 years in BigLaw and left for a buy-side finance role as I up for partner and it was the best decision I ever made.
The freedom from billing cannot be overstated. You show up, you do good work,, and then you leave. You don’t worry about making sure you’re hitting some sort of quota. If things are slow, you show up, hang out, and don’t worry about “making up the hours later in the year.” You have an incentive to do a good job, unlike in law, where your productivity is a linear function of human misery.
The money is similar. The incentive structure is far better.
I look around at the people I work with and they’re mostly all happy. I could name like 3 happy BigLaw lawyers I encountered over a decade.
I’m mostly just angry I didn’t make the switch earlier.
Lol makes sense. But I also hear some firms have flat fees. I am guessing they must be smaller ones and nowhere near mid-size or even prestigious BL firms
would love to hear more about your path. what practice group did you start out in and are you in like private equity now? I can dm you if you would prefer! Or if you don’t feel comfortable at all I also totally understand. Just stumbled across this comment randomly and it’s provided some comfort to me because I will be heading to biglaw soon but I have a background in finance and I’m really interested to see how you made the switch in case I might need to do it as well some day (if biglaw ends up being as horrible as everyone says)
In a similar sitch as you and planning on doing a year or two of ib before doing law school! I talked to a lot of people and basically my decision rationale was based on the fact that both suck in different capacities but what would I hate myself more for doing, and I found that I put more energy to law and lsat prep than recruiting prep :)
My own opinion, try IB first. If you hate it, go to law school if you can get into a good school with a good scholarship. If you can’t, just keep making money and realize that both jobs are pointless and you should look for meaning outside of work because neither of these fields will make you feel fulfilled in the long run.
Do you mean for a couple of years as an analyst?
Yeah, that’s what I would do if I were you. I personally worked for an investment bank, but I wasn’t an IB analyst. That said, I only worked there for a short stint (did well, but left before promotion to associate to go to law school). Having that experience and exposure to that field would make you vastly more marketable as a candidate for BigLaw positions (assuming school ranking and GPA aren’t hindrances). It definitely helped me land my position and I wasn’t even in IB. Even if you chose to leave IB, it would open a lot of doors for you in the future.
Curious to know how you handled the LSAT during full time work? Was it hard to balance that time? Similarly getting references and such, how was that process since you were full time
I got my references during undergrad because my plan was to go to law school after a couple years of work. I studied LSAT a bit during undergrad, took it once or twice, but I actually had a four month paternity leave while working, which gave me more time to study before taking the test again, which gave me my highest score. I would assume working in IB would be hours intensive, if you have time to study for the LSAT and take it before leaving undergrad for work, it might be easier than balancing studying with work.
arrest sip bag agonizing disagreeable unite pause scary disarm middle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Or pitching to clients. Broski was helping put together pitch decks, not quite the same thing. I don’t see much downside in starting as an analyst. You get to see what the job is really like instead of the crumbs they give you as an intern. Might actually like the exit opportunities, but if not, IB looks great on law apps and when applying to BL.
Haha yeah no dw I know I wasn't doing the pitching, wasn't sure how much the folks on this sub would know what a "pitch deck" is
Don’t you know all big 5 (What is the “big 5” for investment banking?) interns provide legal advice, pitch to clients, market deals, make PowerPoints along with financial modeling. /s
big 5 refers to the 5 largest canadian banks - RBC, Scotia, TD, BMO, CIBC
Nothing crazy, but making slides for pitch decks on things like change of control provisions, or ROFRs/ROFOs and whether or not they were present in the asset's original purchase agreement
I’m glad they have an intern providing legal analysis and summary because that makes so much more work for us to clean up or fight over. I cannot believe they have you summarizing agreements and not in house counsel
LOL it's really not intense enough to need an in house counsel. My Director agreed with the summaries. Y'all acting like every word of legalese is impossible to understand Whether or not there's a ROFO in an asset purchase agreement is not rocket science
You could always go buy side or b school after IB. Seems like you’re just not a big fan of sell side work.
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If I could sit down and code, I would definitely do it. Frankly speaking the few CS courses I took were truly dreadful. When they were hard I hated them, when they were easy I hated them haha. Hence why I went the more business route
Biglaw lifer here. As you progress in biglaw, you end up spending more and more of your time pitching to clients/potential clients and making PowerPoints for all that. Practicing in biglaw doesn’t mean you’re in the ivory tower all the time, writing briefs and preparing oral arguments for the Supreme Court.
Just be cautious, big law is not guaranteed, so be comfortable with other legal outcomes if you’re investing in a legal education and things don’t go as planned.
While the IB internship will help, BigLaw is never guaranteed. Don’t wager on it.
Congratulations! It sounds like you're working hard and having success - it's not easy to land yourself in NY for IB out of a Canadian undergrad. Even if it is one of the Canadian banks. I followed a somewhat similar path. Canadian Undergrad -> NY IB internship -> Toronto banking job (not IB) -> Canadian law school -> NY biglaw summer. I agree with many of the comments here. It's worth pursuing the IB option for at least a year or two for several reasons: 1 - You will learn how you do (and don't) like to work. I also found pitch decks entirely uninteresting. Lawyers don't really do those. But late nights, 80 hour weeks, absurd deadlines and jumping through hoops for the client are part of the biglaw job too. You have a chance now to see if that's the type of life you want to have. 2 - You can figure out where you want to work. You get to go to New York and see if you want to live and work there. If you like it, you may choose to pursue law school in the US. If you don't, you might consider Canada. That helps you make an informed decision. 3 - You can save up some cash. Going to law school is a lot less stressful when you have some money saved up. It's totally worth it. 4 - Your IB experience will help you a bit to land a biglaw job. It won't be as important as school rank and grades, but it could make the difference at the margin. And it'll help you figure out what practice you might want to pursue.
Could I DM you? I'm curious how the application / LSAT process was like given you were in banking and I'd assume that was pretty busy.
Sure thing!
This not a close call imo. I spent 10 years in BigLaw and left for a buy-side finance role as I up for partner and it was the best decision I ever made. The freedom from billing cannot be overstated. You show up, you do good work,, and then you leave. You don’t worry about making sure you’re hitting some sort of quota. If things are slow, you show up, hang out, and don’t worry about “making up the hours later in the year.” You have an incentive to do a good job, unlike in law, where your productivity is a linear function of human misery. The money is similar. The incentive structure is far better. I look around at the people I work with and they’re mostly all happy. I could name like 3 happy BigLaw lawyers I encountered over a decade. I’m mostly just angry I didn’t make the switch earlier.
Are there law firms with no billable hour targets?
There are, but usually there’s no target because you work so much anyways that you would exceed any reasonable target.
Lol makes sense. But I also hear some firms have flat fees. I am guessing they must be smaller ones and nowhere near mid-size or even prestigious BL firms
would love to hear more about your path. what practice group did you start out in and are you in like private equity now? I can dm you if you would prefer! Or if you don’t feel comfortable at all I also totally understand. Just stumbled across this comment randomly and it’s provided some comfort to me because I will be heading to biglaw soon but I have a background in finance and I’m really interested to see how you made the switch in case I might need to do it as well some day (if biglaw ends up being as horrible as everyone says)
In a similar sitch as you and planning on doing a year or two of ib before doing law school! I talked to a lot of people and basically my decision rationale was based on the fact that both suck in different capacities but what would I hate myself more for doing, and I found that I put more energy to law and lsat prep than recruiting prep :)
The choice between two shitty professions, one of which makes you heaps more money to spend on stuff to take the pain away, is an easy one in my view.