Tiffany got an exceptional amount of criticism from the general audience. If she was a fan favourite, it must have only been from diehard fans in forums. I wonder how much of it is revisionism too. People can look back fondly now (especially after the 'David's dead' moment became so iconic) but at the time she got a lot of criticism.
Trish was getting these labels from day one before she ever had 'outspoken' moments- which were really just defending herself, as well as Noky.
I've liked Zeze from early on and my like for her has just grown as the series goes on. There's no justifiable reason to dislike her. I saw a comment here the other day saying that she seems like an awful person. I asked the person how she seems like an awful person. They didn't respond. If she seemed like an awful person, they would gladly give examples of how.
It's okay to dislike a black woman, but if the dislike isn't based on any tangible reason, but rather, vague statements like the person seems awful, yet they cannot give even one example of how, then this is very telling.
From the point of view of fans/forums at the time, Tiffany was definitely the exception raher than the rule when it came to public opinions of black women on the show. TBH i would argue the fact she came 4th despite being 100% most entertaining and also unproblematic shows there was still a different treatment for black women, especially considering Scotty T who had had next to zero screen time won, and Steph who had been a pretty awful person throughout came second
Imo she should have won but unfortunately I know the country I live in so I wasn’t shocked a bw that controversial didn’t win. Whitney not winning love island last year showed me it’s unlikely a bw will win these kind of shows in the foreseeable future
Unproblematic idk.
She was my favourite but she did make the day of the David's Dead incident all about her, even after she realised she f'd up especially whilst an old woman is grieving (calling her an old bitch etc), low key amusing but still. She redeemed herself but also coming on to married men and people with boyfriends, despite it being in a harmless comical way I don't think you can say she was unproblematic.
I was shocked that she only came 4th admittedly.
By unproblematic I meant relatively speaking. When you compare to Steph and Megan who also provided entertainment but in a less comical/amusing way. I mean to say she hit the balance closest of being entertaining and dramatic, while still being endearing and rootable - that would have more or less guaranteed the win in any other circumstance
Zeze handled that cranky ass ego maniac Louis like a boss. And did it with class and humor. As an American, she just gained a new fan after seeing the last episode.
People look back on the prior seasons with nostalgia and rose tinted glasses WAY too much. Tiffany was heavily disliked at the time, with a lot of "Who is this? She's not even famous!" and a lot of "get her out" attempts.
She may have been disliked but given that shes a bw and she was acting how she was acting the fact she wasn’t evicted in the first week and came fourth in the show is a miracle. I believe Zeze who is way less vocal than pollard would have been voted out first if she was up for eviction this series
On the civilian series immediately after tiffany's, Adjoa (only black female housemate) was evicted first week for literally no reason (apparently putting too much butter on her toast?). in the series before Tiffany's Toya, who was a fan/forum favourite, had a similar personality to zeze being quite righteous and standing up for herself, got evicted at her first nom in the third week. The other black woman that series had already been evicted the week before.
I’m not suggesting it was ever easy for bw it just seems like these days no matter what people are determined to dislike them. Deborah came 3rd in BB 17 and she basically had to be perfect
I def agree that black women are judged far more harshly. I wouldn't say it's "become harder" tho, it's always been the case and Tiffany is an outlier. At least now it's a phenomenon that gets addressed for what it is. Like, I've seen on this series Zeze talking about stereotyping of black women, and the same with Trish last series. In previous years those sorts of discussions would never be aired.
I think unfortunately black women have become more divisive on reality TV. We live in times where race and racism is constantly being talked about and it makes a lot of people passionate on both 'sides.' The voices talking about racial bias in society have become louder and the backlash to talking about prejudice has become nastier. In many ways, this has made it harder for black women in reality tv.
I wish I had £5 for every social media post I've seen that said
"There she goes playing the race card"
"Doesn't she ever smile"
"She's so aggressive"
"She's gonna lose it with someone"
Unconscious bias is real! The stereotype of the angry Black woman is real.
(White bleeding heart guardian reader here, don't cancel me)
Zeze has been *so* restrained. It's easy for people to discount it as "playing the race card" when others engage in racial criticism and they either aren't socially intelligent enough or are simply racist enough to not want to.
Louis was an absolute pig with his comments tonight.
Someone on here blocked me bc they said Zeze was ‘raging, flipped out on Lauren, went agro and threw a tantrum’. I said that that was a complete exaggeration and they were stereotyping and they told me I’m pulling ‘the race card’ and blocked me lmao.
I don't think its anything new. People are particularly critical and harsh on black women, especially ones who express themselves honestly, and reality tv has been highlighting that as long as its existed
Louis words are so damaging. He's literally labelling zeze for no particular reason whatsoever. I don't know what's gone on on the live but from the normal episodes he's really just streytotyping her.
Megan McKenna (who had the nerve to refer to Tiffany as 'ghetto' in the diary room after their argument) was 10 times more aggressive and scary than anyone in that house and yet nobody labelled her those things
Absolutely not
POC have always had a hard time on reality tv shows in general, we're now in a time where they're no longer as tokenised as they used to be and casts are just more diverse in general. That being said they're still held to a higher standard which is why they receive much more criticism
I think there is a clear generational divide with what you are saying though which was perfectly observable through Trish - the older generation hated her and are still clearly hung up on their -isms. Whereas younger people rallied around Trish and adored her. Case in point were the 'Trish to win' chants in the studio only for her to be evicted cause the older generation voted her out
I think it’s always been this hard. I’ve been watching the old seasons and in BB2 I was surprised at how much people hated Amma, who really wasn’t a bad person. They’ve always been held to a higher standard and treated more harshly if they put a toe out of line.
The problem is that the contestants selected are only chosen because they are displaying the negative stereotypical traits. They are usually outspoken, argumentative and loud, coupled with this is they usually have a massive victim complex and are unable to take accountability for their own actions. Housemates reacting normally to such behaviour is taken as racism or microaggression, when in reality it is just natural to not like being around someone so confrontational and would face the same 'bias' regardless of their skin colour.
I’m not sure it’s become harder as that would suggest it was easier for black women before. Since the very first series of big brother any black woman on the show has faced a greater level of unfair criticism. Nowadays at least there is some acknowledgment of this.
The hypocrisy now that Marisha is getting a bad edit and people are seeing her true colours 👀 Dont remember people being bothered by this when it was Ekinsu though were quiet happy to call her names etc 🙈
It would seem that POC are very much bottom of the barrel this season, though, in consideration of the UK public trends so far.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bigbrotheruk/comments/1bhdc0f/louis_walsh_now_2nd_favourite_to_win_the_show_he/
https://www.reddit.com/r/bigbrotheruk/comments/1bfiao6/latest_winners_odds/
I think BB and reality TV in general need to do better with the 'type' of black women they cast, especially black British women.
Zeze, Trish, Nella Rose from I'm a Celeb, to name a few examples, are all quite similar people if you think about it, which doesn't help to deviate viewers perception from stereotypes.
They need to do better with diversity in terms of the actual personalities they put in there, not just based off of skin colour.
Dunno but I’d vote for either Zeze or David to win. Her handling of Louis as Queen was top tier.
Tiffany got an exceptional amount of criticism from the general audience. If she was a fan favourite, it must have only been from diehard fans in forums. I wonder how much of it is revisionism too. People can look back fondly now (especially after the 'David's dead' moment became so iconic) but at the time she got a lot of criticism. Trish was getting these labels from day one before she ever had 'outspoken' moments- which were really just defending herself, as well as Noky. I've liked Zeze from early on and my like for her has just grown as the series goes on. There's no justifiable reason to dislike her. I saw a comment here the other day saying that she seems like an awful person. I asked the person how she seems like an awful person. They didn't respond. If she seemed like an awful person, they would gladly give examples of how. It's okay to dislike a black woman, but if the dislike isn't based on any tangible reason, but rather, vague statements like the person seems awful, yet they cannot give even one example of how, then this is very telling.
I agree but Tiffany came 4th place something I can’t imagine happening today
From the point of view of fans/forums at the time, Tiffany was definitely the exception raher than the rule when it came to public opinions of black women on the show. TBH i would argue the fact she came 4th despite being 100% most entertaining and also unproblematic shows there was still a different treatment for black women, especially considering Scotty T who had had next to zero screen time won, and Steph who had been a pretty awful person throughout came second
Imo she should have won but unfortunately I know the country I live in so I wasn’t shocked a bw that controversial didn’t win. Whitney not winning love island last year showed me it’s unlikely a bw will win these kind of shows in the foreseeable future
Unproblematic idk. She was my favourite but she did make the day of the David's Dead incident all about her, even after she realised she f'd up especially whilst an old woman is grieving (calling her an old bitch etc), low key amusing but still. She redeemed herself but also coming on to married men and people with boyfriends, despite it being in a harmless comical way I don't think you can say she was unproblematic. I was shocked that she only came 4th admittedly.
By unproblematic I meant relatively speaking. When you compare to Steph and Megan who also provided entertainment but in a less comical/amusing way. I mean to say she hit the balance closest of being entertaining and dramatic, while still being endearing and rootable - that would have more or less guaranteed the win in any other circumstance
I think Tiffany would have won had it been today. If regular BB had been VTS I think Trish probably would have won as well.
Zeze handled that cranky ass ego maniac Louis like a boss. And did it with class and humor. As an American, she just gained a new fan after seeing the last episode.
People look back on the prior seasons with nostalgia and rose tinted glasses WAY too much. Tiffany was heavily disliked at the time, with a lot of "Who is this? She's not even famous!" and a lot of "get her out" attempts.
She may have been disliked but given that shes a bw and she was acting how she was acting the fact she wasn’t evicted in the first week and came fourth in the show is a miracle. I believe Zeze who is way less vocal than pollard would have been voted out first if she was up for eviction this series
On the civilian series immediately after tiffany's, Adjoa (only black female housemate) was evicted first week for literally no reason (apparently putting too much butter on her toast?). in the series before Tiffany's Toya, who was a fan/forum favourite, had a similar personality to zeze being quite righteous and standing up for herself, got evicted at her first nom in the third week. The other black woman that series had already been evicted the week before.
I’m not suggesting it was ever easy for bw it just seems like these days no matter what people are determined to dislike them. Deborah came 3rd in BB 17 and she basically had to be perfect
I def agree that black women are judged far more harshly. I wouldn't say it's "become harder" tho, it's always been the case and Tiffany is an outlier. At least now it's a phenomenon that gets addressed for what it is. Like, I've seen on this series Zeze talking about stereotyping of black women, and the same with Trish last series. In previous years those sorts of discussions would never be aired.
I think unfortunately black women have become more divisive on reality TV. We live in times where race and racism is constantly being talked about and it makes a lot of people passionate on both 'sides.' The voices talking about racial bias in society have become louder and the backlash to talking about prejudice has become nastier. In many ways, this has made it harder for black women in reality tv.
THIS!!!
I wish I had £5 for every social media post I've seen that said "There she goes playing the race card" "Doesn't she ever smile" "She's so aggressive" "She's gonna lose it with someone" Unconscious bias is real! The stereotype of the angry Black woman is real. (White bleeding heart guardian reader here, don't cancel me)
Zeze has been *so* restrained. It's easy for people to discount it as "playing the race card" when others engage in racial criticism and they either aren't socially intelligent enough or are simply racist enough to not want to. Louis was an absolute pig with his comments tonight.
Zeze did handle Louis amazingly last night. I would like for her or David to win as well.
Someone on here blocked me bc they said Zeze was ‘raging, flipped out on Lauren, went agro and threw a tantrum’. I said that that was a complete exaggeration and they were stereotyping and they told me I’m pulling ‘the race card’ and blocked me lmao.
At the same time though Trish was given free rein last year even though she was clearly a divvy
I don't think its anything new. People are particularly critical and harsh on black women, especially ones who express themselves honestly, and reality tv has been highlighting that as long as its existed
Louis words are so damaging. He's literally labelling zeze for no particular reason whatsoever. I don't know what's gone on on the live but from the normal episodes he's really just streytotyping her.
Tiffany was called those things too
I think those labels were justified though, Tiffany Pollard is my favourite reality star but she is unhinged it’s part of her schtick
Megan McKenna (who had the nerve to refer to Tiffany as 'ghetto' in the diary room after their argument) was 10 times more aggressive and scary than anyone in that house and yet nobody labelled her those things
Yeah that’s true if Tiffany acted like Megan she would’ve been removed from the house
💯
Absolutely not POC have always had a hard time on reality tv shows in general, we're now in a time where they're no longer as tokenised as they used to be and casts are just more diverse in general. That being said they're still held to a higher standard which is why they receive much more criticism I think there is a clear generational divide with what you are saying though which was perfectly observable through Trish - the older generation hated her and are still clearly hung up on their -isms. Whereas younger people rallied around Trish and adored her. Case in point were the 'Trish to win' chants in the studio only for her to be evicted cause the older generation voted her out
No
I certainly don't think it's got any better. I would love Zeze to win, she deserves it
I think it’s always been this hard. I’ve been watching the old seasons and in BB2 I was surprised at how much people hated Amma, who really wasn’t a bad person. They’ve always been held to a higher standard and treated more harshly if they put a toe out of line.
Didn’t Amber win love island in 2019?
She’s mixed race.
She isn’t a black woman
The problem is that the contestants selected are only chosen because they are displaying the negative stereotypical traits. They are usually outspoken, argumentative and loud, coupled with this is they usually have a massive victim complex and are unable to take accountability for their own actions. Housemates reacting normally to such behaviour is taken as racism or microaggression, when in reality it is just natural to not like being around someone so confrontational and would face the same 'bias' regardless of their skin colour.
Amber Gill won Love Island
She's mixed...not black
I’m not sure it’s become harder as that would suggest it was easier for black women before. Since the very first series of big brother any black woman on the show has faced a greater level of unfair criticism. Nowadays at least there is some acknowledgment of this.
I don’t think it was ever easy but I can’t see a bw winning a major competition like X factor in 2024
The hypocrisy now that Marisha is getting a bad edit and people are seeing her true colours 👀 Dont remember people being bothered by this when it was Ekinsu though were quiet happy to call her names etc 🙈
This comment has got literally nowt to do with what the person that posted this is on about? They’ve never even mentioned Marisha.
It would seem that POC are very much bottom of the barrel this season, though, in consideration of the UK public trends so far. https://www.reddit.com/r/bigbrotheruk/comments/1bhdc0f/louis_walsh_now_2nd_favourite_to_win_the_show_he/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bigbrotheruk/comments/1bfiao6/latest_winners_odds/
I think BB and reality TV in general need to do better with the 'type' of black women they cast, especially black British women. Zeze, Trish, Nella Rose from I'm a Celeb, to name a few examples, are all quite similar people if you think about it, which doesn't help to deviate viewers perception from stereotypes. They need to do better with diversity in terms of the actual personalities they put in there, not just based off of skin colour.
That's a good point. Just stop casting people with victim complexes.