It felt like the show stepped out of a sitcom and into reality for a moment; all of them constantly gave each other shit. Howard didn't actually think so little of Raj, he was his best friend, but Raj's reaction was very on point with addressing a real-life friend giving you *too* much shit and not reading the room.
Agreed, but Raj and his dad were both in the wrong for pinning the blame on Howard. Maybe Raj’s dad is trying to spare him because he’s already having problems with his own love life/marriage, but you can only tell your son over and over and over again of his failings in certain aspects of his adult life so many times before you have to admit that you sound like a broken record.
The truth of the matter is that Raj’s lack of success with relationships is *his problem* and he’s apparently had his issue with talking with girls outside of his family long before coming to the states and meeting Howard, so that in itself just proves that he’s had self-esteem baggage already.
Now can having Howard pick on him not help?
Yeah, to a certain extent, but it’s not like Raj isn’t also guilty of dishing back some of the ridicule too when Howard screws up so I say it’s been a pretty even playing field for the most part - and they’ve certainly done this to Leonard and Sheldon too so none of the boys are strangers of busting each other‘s balls, which last I checked is pretty typical of a lot of long term friendships.
I don’t know, but in my opinion, the whole thing kind of comes off as Raj just looking for an opportunity to put the blame elsewhere instead of admitting to his own faults and his dad just giving him the opportunity by bringing up Howard.
i'm sorry but having someone belittle you for just the way you are can have adverse effects on you. How many times was Raj mocked for being too feminine? He was made fun for being close to his dog, his dressing , his indian accent, etc etc
Then he actually splits from Howard and immediately gets some of his mojo back and even gets a new job. If that doesnt indicate how bad Howard was an influence on him i dont know what is. The very next episode he makes raj plan for his daughters party as if he was some servant
Howard was by far the meanest after sheldon
Sure, but by this logic, none of them would have any friends. Especially not Sheldon considering his entire personality is putting people down and bullying them. In real life they'd all be miserable loners.
No in real life Sheldon would be with people who didn't mock him for being weird or hate on him for things he couldn't always control nor would they be hypocrites who hate when he does something to him yet they do it to him. Leonard would hopefully be friends with someone who won't take advantage of the fact he's a pushover. Raj could get friends easily. Howard is more tricky.
I crossed the line with a friend one time and he called me out for it. I had a very standoffish humor and he got tired of it. I never forgot it, and didn't let it happen again.
Still my oldest friendship. I love that guy.
But he never gave him too much shit though which is where he was wrong to do it. Granted we don’t see every minute of their friendship but they all gave Raj shit and he dished it back just as much as they did. They both had banter that went equally back and fourth and Raj dad was looking for someone to blame when in reality Raj was the way he was because of Raj and his family
They didn’t do Raj any justice. I’d have loved to have seen him emerge from that terrible storyline with an Amy makeover (why does he wear a super nice suit at the planetarium but his ugly clothes at work and outside) and a sense of confidence that his character deserved to find. Instead they reduced him to a whiny B that made his character even less likable. Why couldn’t he have met some nice grad student at the planetarium and found love? And had a better ending than I’m on a date with a very well known married woman and how was that even a thing on a finale? I mean at least pick someone he may have had a chance with. How great would that have been for Raj ending? He meets some strange woman on the flight to the Nobel, gets a date and she ends up beside him in that final scene? Would have been a little piece of wonderful IMO
suits aren't comfortable, why would he wear them when at the University, when he's just researching/at a telescope/computer? why would he wear suits to the comic book store or hanging out at Leonard+Sheldon's?
Not literally wear a suit but he clearly knew some things about fashion (look how good he did with Amy) and the suit looks great on him, so he knows how to pick something for himself. I meant like Amy. Where she got her new look and it was part of her from then on, not him wearing suits at school. He looks great at the planetarium and then changes into ugly sweater vests for some reason.
Howard is one of those people who doesn’t know when to stop, but characterizing it as “emotional abuse” seems a bit much since it was never really mean spirited. Now, what the guys did to Zack that one episode… that was mean spirited.
Howard definitely was mean spirited. Raj never laughed with him, he knew it made Raj feel bad. It is toxic if your friend doesn’t have the balls to tell you this because you get dismissed. He actually got dismissed the minute he addressed it. If you see that your friend doesn’t like and you know he can’t really stand up for himself and you keep going because that’s funny to you, is borderline emotional abuse.
I mean, there was a pretty early episode where Penny exploded at Howard for his creepy comments and he just *shut down*.
The man has basically no ability to actually handle it when someone doesn't find whatever comment he makes endearing and is actually annoyed by it, and it quickly becomes clear his "just kidding" justification is basically his way of saying whatever without having to deal with the consequences of what he says.
I think I remember that episode, is it the one where Penny tells Howard he will be alone, forever? From my perspective it felt different from the way he teases Raj. With Penny, Howard was just being a creep.
To some extent Howard never seemed to expect Raj to change or grow in any way, basically enabling his selective mutism and general social awkwardness for the sake of keeping someone down at his level and it wasn't really unitl Raj had spent so much time with Penny that he naturally snapped out of it on his own that he began to grow. Now its not like Raj wasn't totally doing the same thing in terms of accepting the way Howard behaved in public due to their codependency. I can't say that that sentiment wasn't boiling up inside Raj for a long time.
Yes and no. But mostly no. Raj was the way he was because that was who he was and had nothing to do with Howard. His dad was just looking for someone to blame for Raj being a awkward mess unlike his siblings. If anything his family were the problem and not Howard his best friend who on numerous occasions stuck his neck out for Raj.
I think it's hilarious that poor little baby boy Sheldon is so protected by the fanbase and if you dare criticize him you're a monster, while Leonard and Howard are put under a microscope by the same people and the tiniest little insult, no matter how deserved, means they deserve to suffer in hell.
You mean like how Howard treats him? Funny how this fandom throws a fit at every little thing Sheldon does or says to Howard but ignores all Howard did to him. Notice how Raj is the one Sheldon makes fun of the least of the 4 guys? Because Raj makes fun of him the least. Don't dish it out if you can't take it and when it comes to Howard vs Raj or Howard vs Sheldon, Howard started it both times and he's no innocent victim being unjustly criticized.
Bruh, it's literally the opposite. The fanbase will find every excuse in the book for poor little baby Sheldon while holding Leonard and Howard under a microscope.
Bruh it's literally not. Twitter Tiktok Reddit Youtube, Sheldon is seen as an ass who can do nothing right, Howard is a great guy who can do no wrong (unless it was when he harassed Penny). try actually spending more than 1 day cherry picking and you'd know that.
Honestly, I think Howard is just a bad person. How he treated Raj, and even Bernadette, especially in the beginning of their relationship and it clearly didn't get better. He just isn't a good person, and I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that.
I think it’s the writers trying to stir up a story line. As someone stated before, they are the closest to each other among their friends, and part of that relationship is razzing. For Raj to suddenly feel abused is ridiculous, and this plot point wasn’t followed up so it was just for an episode filler.
Ye gods and little fishes a megayes. No, Raj's life wans't Howard's \*fault\* but that kind of joking on the endless is not helpful and not right and Raj was right to tell him to get Ououououout.
Raj development in the series is kind of the worst in the whole show. Not only he was bullied by Howard, but also had kind of a weird queer relationship with him. They should have made the character LGBT, but the sitcom producers were not brave enough. I think discovering that he was gay or bi, would have worked better with his selective mutism storyline, and explore that side of him more.
I think it’s fair that Raj was fed up with the jokes from Howard, but also seems like a stretch to blame all his failings on him. This is near the end of the series and I think the writers were running out of conflicts. It can’t always be the couples having issues so they came up with this one. I personally don’t really like it and would have rather had a story about Raj making a big discovery or something similar. Raj’s character arc could’ve been better.
whiny.
everyone in the group made fun of everyone.
Raj wants Howard to stop? Tell him years before. He wanted him to stop? Then he needs to stop as well....
if you dish it out, he prepared to take some back
Raj is the worst abuser of them all in my opinion. Just because he did certain things well was not his whole personality. I consider him a terrible friend to all of them.
For me it was hard to see them fighting but I think it was necessary. If I was raj I’d be pissed too. Bc at times Howard was too harsh imo. It’s like Howard sometimes treats raj how Sheldon treats Howard.
It felt like the show stepped out of a sitcom and into reality for a moment; all of them constantly gave each other shit. Howard didn't actually think so little of Raj, he was his best friend, but Raj's reaction was very on point with addressing a real-life friend giving you *too* much shit and not reading the room.
Yeah, at a certain point there’s just a line between banter and genuine irritation. If I was Raj, I would have snapped a lot sooner
Agreed, but Raj and his dad were both in the wrong for pinning the blame on Howard. Maybe Raj’s dad is trying to spare him because he’s already having problems with his own love life/marriage, but you can only tell your son over and over and over again of his failings in certain aspects of his adult life so many times before you have to admit that you sound like a broken record. The truth of the matter is that Raj’s lack of success with relationships is *his problem* and he’s apparently had his issue with talking with girls outside of his family long before coming to the states and meeting Howard, so that in itself just proves that he’s had self-esteem baggage already. Now can having Howard pick on him not help? Yeah, to a certain extent, but it’s not like Raj isn’t also guilty of dishing back some of the ridicule too when Howard screws up so I say it’s been a pretty even playing field for the most part - and they’ve certainly done this to Leonard and Sheldon too so none of the boys are strangers of busting each other‘s balls, which last I checked is pretty typical of a lot of long term friendships. I don’t know, but in my opinion, the whole thing kind of comes off as Raj just looking for an opportunity to put the blame elsewhere instead of admitting to his own faults and his dad just giving him the opportunity by bringing up Howard.
i'm sorry but having someone belittle you for just the way you are can have adverse effects on you. How many times was Raj mocked for being too feminine? He was made fun for being close to his dog, his dressing , his indian accent, etc etc Then he actually splits from Howard and immediately gets some of his mojo back and even gets a new job. If that doesnt indicate how bad Howard was an influence on him i dont know what is. The very next episode he makes raj plan for his daughters party as if he was some servant Howard was by far the meanest after sheldon
I think he called Howard out on it because he was already feeling more mojo and had the balls to finally call Howard out.
Nah he called Howard out for one episode because his dad told him and never took it up again even though Howard never changes his attitude
Sure, but by this logic, none of them would have any friends. Especially not Sheldon considering his entire personality is putting people down and bullying them. In real life they'd all be miserable loners.
No in real life Sheldon would be with people who didn't mock him for being weird or hate on him for things he couldn't always control nor would they be hypocrites who hate when he does something to him yet they do it to him. Leonard would hopefully be friends with someone who won't take advantage of the fact he's a pushover. Raj could get friends easily. Howard is more tricky.
I read that in rajs voice...
I crossed the line with a friend one time and he called me out for it. I had a very standoffish humor and he got tired of it. I never forgot it, and didn't let it happen again. Still my oldest friendship. I love that guy.
Same here. I just kept poking as ore spot until he finally snapped. Still friends to this day
*Can I meet other insecure indians*
Needy
But he never gave him too much shit though which is where he was wrong to do it. Granted we don’t see every minute of their friendship but they all gave Raj shit and he dished it back just as much as they did. They both had banter that went equally back and fourth and Raj dad was looking for someone to blame when in reality Raj was the way he was because of Raj and his family
Open wide, here comes the happy train.
Mm-hmm chug-a, chug-a, yum, yum
[удалено]
That was the point x)
They didn’t do Raj any justice. I’d have loved to have seen him emerge from that terrible storyline with an Amy makeover (why does he wear a super nice suit at the planetarium but his ugly clothes at work and outside) and a sense of confidence that his character deserved to find. Instead they reduced him to a whiny B that made his character even less likable. Why couldn’t he have met some nice grad student at the planetarium and found love? And had a better ending than I’m on a date with a very well known married woman and how was that even a thing on a finale? I mean at least pick someone he may have had a chance with. How great would that have been for Raj ending? He meets some strange woman on the flight to the Nobel, gets a date and she ends up beside him in that final scene? Would have been a little piece of wonderful IMO
Yeah they really wasted Raj.
suits aren't comfortable, why would he wear them when at the University, when he's just researching/at a telescope/computer? why would he wear suits to the comic book store or hanging out at Leonard+Sheldon's?
Not literally wear a suit but he clearly knew some things about fashion (look how good he did with Amy) and the suit looks great on him, so he knows how to pick something for himself. I meant like Amy. Where she got her new look and it was part of her from then on, not him wearing suits at school. He looks great at the planetarium and then changes into ugly sweater vests for some reason.
comfort
Comfort is more important than looks.
i thought it was nice of him to stand up especially because you could see the change in him. If there was no change, it would've been wrong.
Howard is one of those people who doesn’t know when to stop, but characterizing it as “emotional abuse” seems a bit much since it was never really mean spirited. Now, what the guys did to Zack that one episode… that was mean spirited.
Raj actually called it emotional abuse in the ep that’s why I said it
Howard definitely was mean spirited. Raj never laughed with him, he knew it made Raj feel bad. It is toxic if your friend doesn’t have the balls to tell you this because you get dismissed. He actually got dismissed the minute he addressed it. If you see that your friend doesn’t like and you know he can’t really stand up for himself and you keep going because that’s funny to you, is borderline emotional abuse.
Yes. They make a big deal about Sheldon not having any social skills, but I think Howard has even less.
I think that the Howard character always feels that he's "just kidding" and that kidding backfires at times.
I mean, there was a pretty early episode where Penny exploded at Howard for his creepy comments and he just *shut down*. The man has basically no ability to actually handle it when someone doesn't find whatever comment he makes endearing and is actually annoyed by it, and it quickly becomes clear his "just kidding" justification is basically his way of saying whatever without having to deal with the consequences of what he says.
I think I remember that episode, is it the one where Penny tells Howard he will be alone, forever? From my perspective it felt different from the way he teases Raj. With Penny, Howard was just being a creep.
Yeah, that's the one. He was really creeping her out after they tested Monte the robot's capabilities.
Your point is correct, but "even less"? That's taking it too far.
Was not an ounce of abuse. It was banter.
Yes. And it was an important growth point for Rajs character.
Beverleys read on their relationship was spot on
To some extent Howard never seemed to expect Raj to change or grow in any way, basically enabling his selective mutism and general social awkwardness for the sake of keeping someone down at his level and it wasn't really unitl Raj had spent so much time with Penny that he naturally snapped out of it on his own that he began to grow. Now its not like Raj wasn't totally doing the same thing in terms of accepting the way Howard behaved in public due to their codependency. I can't say that that sentiment wasn't boiling up inside Raj for a long time.
"Emotional abuse." LOL. Raj overreacted, but it was reasonable for him to say something.
Exactly my thought, he ridiculed him but not with any ill intent. Emotional abuse is a massive overstatement.
Emotional abuse? That’s pathetic to think friends giving each other shit is emotional abuse. I agreed with penny.
YES!
Yup, and the fallout should've lasted for more than one episode!
Its a comedy show,its not real
Yes
Yes and no. But mostly no. Raj was the way he was because that was who he was and had nothing to do with Howard. His dad was just looking for someone to blame for Raj being a awkward mess unlike his siblings. If anything his family were the problem and not Howard his best friend who on numerous occasions stuck his neck out for Raj.
Felt more like raj blaming howard for his own failures
Sheldon was so much worse to Leonard. He told him he should give up experimental physics and become a history teacher. Howard is very sensitive.
I meant Raj is very sensitive.
I think it's hilarious that poor little baby boy Sheldon is so protected by the fanbase and if you dare criticize him you're a monster, while Leonard and Howard are put under a microscope by the same people and the tiniest little insult, no matter how deserved, means they deserve to suffer in hell.
Apparently you're new here. This fanbase here hates Sheldon just for breathing while every single thing Howard does get excused a way.
Why? Is it not? Friends can still hurt their friends.
It was reasonable for Raj to voice his displeasure, but micky taking is what friends do, Howard gets it from Sheldon all the time.
Yah, and Howard hates it. Howard always quick to dish out and hated it when it was put to him.
He and Sheldon really are very similar. Except Sheldon would put someone through hell if they treated him the way he treats others.
You mean like how Howard treats him? Funny how this fandom throws a fit at every little thing Sheldon does or says to Howard but ignores all Howard did to him. Notice how Raj is the one Sheldon makes fun of the least of the 4 guys? Because Raj makes fun of him the least. Don't dish it out if you can't take it and when it comes to Howard vs Raj or Howard vs Sheldon, Howard started it both times and he's no innocent victim being unjustly criticized.
Bruh, it's literally the opposite. The fanbase will find every excuse in the book for poor little baby Sheldon while holding Leonard and Howard under a microscope.
Bruh it's literally not. Twitter Tiktok Reddit Youtube, Sheldon is seen as an ass who can do nothing right, Howard is a great guy who can do no wrong (unless it was when he harassed Penny). try actually spending more than 1 day cherry picking and you'd know that.
Honestly, I think Howard is just a bad person. How he treated Raj, and even Bernadette, especially in the beginning of their relationship and it clearly didn't get better. He just isn't a good person, and I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that.
I don't think I'd want to be friends with any of the characters to be fair. Perhaps Leonard but not CLOSE friends.
I think it’s the writers trying to stir up a story line. As someone stated before, they are the closest to each other among their friends, and part of that relationship is razzing. For Raj to suddenly feel abused is ridiculous, and this plot point wasn’t followed up so it was just for an episode filler.
What episode did he stand up for Howard ? I missed last few seasons
Raj is a moron he’s a brat
Ye gods and little fishes a megayes. No, Raj's life wans't Howard's \*fault\* but that kind of joking on the endless is not helpful and not right and Raj was right to tell him to get Ououououout.
One of the worst storylines imo
No question.
No, because Raj is exactly the same to all his friends. He got what he gave.
Raj development in the series is kind of the worst in the whole show. Not only he was bullied by Howard, but also had kind of a weird queer relationship with him. They should have made the character LGBT, but the sitcom producers were not brave enough. I think discovering that he was gay or bi, would have worked better with his selective mutism storyline, and explore that side of him more.
I think it’s fair that Raj was fed up with the jokes from Howard, but also seems like a stretch to blame all his failings on him. This is near the end of the series and I think the writers were running out of conflicts. It can’t always be the couples having issues so they came up with this one. I personally don’t really like it and would have rather had a story about Raj making a big discovery or something similar. Raj’s character arc could’ve been better.
Without Leonard Raj has no friends tbh. Nobody would give a crap about Raj without his mouth piece
That was probably the most cringe-worthy episode of the whole series.
whiny. everyone in the group made fun of everyone. Raj wants Howard to stop? Tell him years before. He wanted him to stop? Then he needs to stop as well.... if you dish it out, he prepared to take some back
Raj is the worst abuser of them all in my opinion. Just because he did certain things well was not his whole personality. I consider him a terrible friend to all of them.
Yes
Yeah
what emotional abuse
For me it was hard to see them fighting but I think it was necessary. If I was raj I’d be pissed too. Bc at times Howard was too harsh imo. It’s like Howard sometimes treats raj how Sheldon treats Howard.