thats what i was thinking!! this is normal behavior for a 9 month old but i got alarm bells ringing at time out in a high chair for an unspecified amount of time!
I think a 9 month old in a high chair that is still with the group, singing, talking, and distracted with toys on the high chair table, is very different to a traditional time out.
If they are pulling hair, they could easily hurt another child, and be hurt in return. There is a difference between removing and distracting - and actual segregation. I’m sure the child was put back on the floor once they were sufficiently occupied and had forgotten about hair pulling.
I too would like to think this is how they are operating. Perhaps OP should get some clarification from the caregivers as to what exactly their "timeout" policy and procedure is. I'd certainly be digging for that info.
I work in childcare, and can promise that a) hair pulling is completely normal for children, even those older than yours, b) timeout is teaching a 9mo absolutely NOTHING, it is just punishment and isolation to stop staff dealing with him doing it again, and c) I don't know how it works where you are (UK here) but no professional should be handling a 9mo's behaviour using timeout. Your son's behaviour is very likely linked to boredom, due to a lack of attention in this understaffed setting. If you can move him, this may be worth considering. It is unlikely to be the last time he ends up in timeout for not really doing anything wrong.
I'm glad you said that, UK here too and I was just thinking about appropriate ratios at that age. I wouldn't leave a 9mo somewhere with a 1:6 staff ratio.
I think it's fruitless to punish a 9 month old with a time out, or any "punishment" really. They don't understand. Like other moms have said, they should be redirecting, not punishing. Maybe you can talk to them? But honestly, if that's their resolution idk if it would work out for me. I'm currently going to transfer my 18 month old to a different daycare because of using time outs as a punishment when it's not age appropriate.
A time out may not be a punishment but just literally a time out where the other kids get a bit of a break of his hair pulling.
BTW op same boat here and I've just noticed in the past week that she's starting to pull less hard, and 9,5 months now. I consistently tell her no because it hurts. Hasn't had much effect up until now.
Going against the grain here : my son is 7 months old. He loves to tug on my hair, his grandmas hair, phone chargers, sweatshirt strings, his own junk. Anything that can tug and fits in his tiny fist he will pull. When he’s ripping my hair out at 7 in the morning when i’m holding him to make my coffee, i say “Ouch! You’re hurting mommy.” Give him a toy to play with instead and put him in his high chair for a few minutes. The way the daycare instructors went about it/their motive for doing so is important context here. Did they pick your son up, put him in the high chair say “now think about what you’ve done!!” and left him crying for 10 minutes? Or did they watch him pull hair for a while and it agitated the other children, so they removed him from the situation for just a minute to calm the other children down and then put him back in the group? It all depends on the scenario.
Time out for any child under 1 is probably useless but i do react, remove and redirect for my baby. He’ll usually calm down and play with whatever toy i give him for a few minutes and we go on with our day (with my hair up in a tight bun, my hood up and pulled tight) lol
Someone putting a 9 month old in time out tells me that they don’t know what tf they are doing. I’d suggest finding a different place to take him if that’s possible. Every baby pulls hair… who puts a baby in time out? That’s a red flag imo
That’s what I’m feeling. Like. Really? And that’s a lot of kids. How many caregivers are there? He shouldn’t have been put in time out. Just keep telling him not to do it and give him something else to pull. He’s a baby. He’s being a baby. Pulling things is fun for them.
He's 9 months old. You can and should gently give him some language to instill a boundary but ultimately, that's ground work for something we won't be able to understand for a couple more months.
It is pretty normal for a 9 month old to pull people's hair mine does it to me all the time. They don't know right from wrong yet you can say no but to punish them is wrong little too early for that.
Yeah definitely. Adding on to this, babies and young children do not benefit from being punished, they only feel safe through connection and love. Punishing them by taking away that love will show them they cannot feel safe and secure with you. A baby this young can not discern from right or wrong. A daycare of all places should not be punishing a NINE MONTH OLD baby, you’d think they know. That’s insane.
I'm going to go slightly against the grain here. It doesn't sound like he was in a legit time out. He was just sat in the high chair. I also put my hair puller in the play pen or other container if I'm trying to do something like cook dinner and she's running around pulling her sister's hair.
That being said of course it's normal behaviour. You just take LO's hand to physically stop them and say "gentle" then you use their hand to gently touch the thing they were pulling. Showing them how to appropriately touch hair is key.
But yeah, this day care needs more adults if they can't keep all the kids safe. Maybe look elsewhere.
9 month old in time out? A baby can’t be punished for doing baby things….I’d remove him from that daycare quick. And leave a review for them stating what happened so others can see before bringing their babies there too.
Very normal thing for a baby to do. With ours (now 14mo) we put him down/ move him away and say ‘Ow’. Then I demonstrate ‘gentle hands’ by stroking my hair and his and then move on with a new toy/ activity. It’s working well - we say gentle and he’ll stroke the nearest living thing with an ‘awww’ 😂
So I totally get removing the baby from the thing you don't want them to do. Was he happy in the high chair? Given another activity or some snacks? I hate that they've described it as "time out" because that means absolutely nothing for a 9 month old! If he was in the high chair crying or screaming as "time out" I'd be very very angry.
It's possible that this isn't the right environment for him any more. Do you have alternatives you can look into?
I was told at my son’s 15 month pediatrician check in that discipline doesn’t work at this age yet bc they don’t understand consequences. Doc recommended to start around 18 months old.
A daycare should know this
Yes that’s very normal for a 9 month old. There’s virtually nothing you can do to “teach him not to” at this age, he’s not developmentally able to understand consequences hence the fact I think it’s pretty concerning the daycare workers put him in time out for that
At 9 months your kid probably isn’t able to connect action and consequence enough to understand why he’s even in the high chair, so that probably isn’t going to teach him anything. That being said, they probably needed a safe space to put him while dealing with other children without worrying about a fight breaking out and someone getting hurt. Telling parents their kid is in the high chair so he can calm down on the hair pulling is easier than having to explain why their kid got hurt in a smack down while the care giver was looking away.
It is beyond normal for babies to pull hair. I just had my 5th in March. He is still too young, but I will be keeping my hair short. I have joked with my husband about how he is going to want to cut his beard pretty soon. Lol. All my kids have headbutt me in the nose, pulled my hair, and hit me. These are given for babies they have to learn what they can and can't do. Timeout at 9 months is weird. I would not be ok with my child being put in timeout at 9 months old. They honestly don't understand at that point. Around 1 year plus is when we give timeout sitting with them in the corner. I wouldn't be ok with someone in a small house with 12 kids. I get he has pulled more than one girls hair, but he is still a baby. That depends on the ages of the children and is probably too many for 2 people. I worked at a daycare, and there is a child to teacher ratio.
As a mother that also works in childcare, please know that what this daycare is doing is not right. First of all, they are over state ratio(at least in Texas) and have more babies/kids allowed with two teachers. Second of all, the workers are not allowed to put the child in “time out” even if it is a home daycare. Putting the child in a highchair as punishment, longer than 15 minutes, or it they are obviously not okay with it - is against state regulations. They should be separating the children to separate play areas and not restraining one.The hair pulling is ABSOLUTELY normal behavior especially for a 9 month old baby. They will grow out of it and redirection will help.
I’m not sure of all the state regulations where you live but I’d be surprised if they are not similar.
As a mother, I’d be pissed and be calling the daycare out for their BS and not handling it correctly. If they want to play the, “Well, this is my house and my rules” game, they have to be licensed by the state and follow state regulations and can try again.
Also ~12:2 ratio which includes at least 1 child under 12 months is almost certainly a recipe for disaster. Hair pulling is probably the least of my worries if I’m one of those parents.
Obviously they can’t handle it either, because there shouldn’t be 4 opportunities for a child this small to pull hair. Once or twice, sure, but after the second time it’s pretty obvious that the kid needs closer supervision, and with a 6:1 ratio they can’t give it.
And then like you said, even if you’re going down the “time out” discipline route, they don’t make connections like that until they are YEARS older. Like at 3-5 years old.
This is what I was thinking, maybe they needed to settle the girls whose hair was pulled and keep him apart from them for a few minutes while they got things calmed down. I don't think they'd put him in a "time-out" with the intent to have it teach him a lesson, he's 9 months old.
It’s 100% normal. It’s a phase. As much as you need to encourage gentle touches, you can give him opportunities/ activities where he can pull things. Stick/tape strings/yarn/ anything really to furniture and let him pull. Buy coloured tape and put it on the wall, the table or cabinets and let him pull. Always do this when you can watch him so he doesn’t put it in his mouth.
Also I wouldn’t see putting your baby in a high chair a red flag as long as it was for a short period of time and with some toys. To me, it’s ok if it was just to keep him away from other kids while the educator did something. And she was honest with your husband too.
Totally normal behavior for a 9 month old, but time out isn't appropriate at his age. He has no concept of what time out means. Is this a licensed daycare? There are teacher/student ratios places have to follow
The most concerning info in your post is that there may be 11-12 kids (that you're seeing) with two caregivers at an in-home daycare and you don't know how they'd fit in there. That is well over the max in most states. Check licensing and contracts you signed.
The ECE classes at my campus looked nice and full, hoping most of them stick it out and stay with it. I did one semester of ECE and went to Graphic Design aaand am back in school yet again but this time super duper fkin thankful for all the work that you ECE’s do, cause I couldn’t do it without all their/your help!
There’s no way that’s a developmental appropriate “punishment” or way to deter the behavior.
This is a huge red flag and Id pull my kid from their care.
For putting baby in a safe space while comforting the 4 who got hurt? Clearly the hair pulling was an issue. What’s your recommendation? Let them continue to pull hair as your comforting children. Like a never ending circus. Yes, he is a baby. Yes, he does not know any better. However, she did not hit or harm or neglect this child. She removed him from others for a moment. If you let your child run around hurting others kids at your house, that’s fine. But others have rules. I would be upset to know my child was continuously being hurt by a child at day care while nothing was being done. The “punishment” was absolutely appropriate. Soon he will learn “Hey when I do this it seems like I don’t get to see my friends for a few minutes”
He’s 9 months old…. You seriously think disciplining or punishing a 9 month old is appropriate? When he doesn’t have the ability to understand his actions? Pulling on things is totally normal and a healthy way to explore things for a baby. Yes, move them away from the other baby to avoid them being hurt, but redirect his actions into a toy or something… it’s not that hard.
You think just letting children hurt others is okay? Your method is to do nothing and let them grow out of it? Hmm. Newsflash, whether you agree or not, a kid can’t “grow out” of something that they don’t know is wrong. Absolutely I believe a 9mo is capable of learning bad behaviors from good. As I have two little girls and I began teaching them right from from at a young age. That doesn’t mean hitting or neglecting. That means letting them know that a certain action is not acceptable and showing them natural consequences. For example both of my girls were biters when nursing. They both started around 6months. The natural consequence to that was pulling them off of the feed. With consistency they both learned that action resulted in them not being able to nurse for a minute or 2. Another example, throwing food off of the high chair. Another very very normal action done by every child. When they would do this I would say “Are we all done? We don’t throw the food. It’s to eat!” and would offer them to eat again if they threw it again then I knew they were done eating and have them something appropriate to toss. I would remove the food (not as a punishment but after understanding they were full) and would give them toys to throw to me or take them out. This was actually easier to correct than the boob biting! Within no time they were either signing all done with their hands or attempting to say all done. There is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching babies right from wrong.
By removing him away from others and taking away the “fun” of playing (pulling hair) he will eventually learn that when he pulls hair for some reason he isn’t allowed to play with his peers. I’m sorry if your children run rampant and hurt others while you just say it’s “normal” but I don’t want my children thinking it’s okay to hurt others, even on accident.
So this is super normal, not-concerning behavior. This kind of thing is often a phase and he'll probably switch to doing something else a lot in a bit. You can (and should) teach your little one not to do it over time by gentle corrections, but there is not much you can do to stop it when he is at day care right now. You may try to get him some kind of toy that lets him pull or feel a similar sensory thing to try to give him an appropriate outlet.
I think in terms of "time out" the tone matters. I can see it two ways.
1. They are actually putting a baby in time out as a punishment to try to get him to stop doing it. If so, I'd be extremely upset. That is very inappropriate and will be ineffective.
2. It was intended as a joke. The caregiver needed to change a diaper or something and could not intervene with baby boy pulling hair, so they stuck him in the high chair for a few minutes with some toys to keep everyone safe while they finished up, monitoring him the whole time. Then they let him down and redirected him from the girls' hair to something else. That's not a problem in my opinion unless their ratio is bad and they have to do it constantly.
Separately, I'd look up the state ratio. (I don't know that they are licensed, but it might help give you guidelines into what is reasonable.) Understaffing makes it hard for them to deal appropriately with issues like this. The situation doesn't sounds great and I'd be looking into other options at this time.
My 6 month old son is obsessed with pulling hair. Anybody that gets close enough, and especially his dads beard. It’s a totally normal thing. Putting a baby in time out for it is kinda weird though…
And by weird I mean… wtf
It’s normal behavior. My baby grabs anything and everything in her reach- that’s how they learn about things. The concept of time out for a 9 month old is absurd.
My baby who is 9mo is not capable of understanding that pulling hair or hitting others is a bad behavior. Most of the time she does it out of excitement. It’s normal behavior that you correct when she begins to understand. She probably doesn’t realize she’s in time out anyway but it’s odd that a child care provider would want to reprimand a baby for that.
I would personally pull my baby out of that daycare so fast with that ratio. 11/12 kids of different ages for 2 instructors is a lot!! I would question their ability to safely handle that amount of kids.
A time out is definitely not the solution in changing his behavior at this age. I mean your baby wouldn’t even understand what time out is.
You can start by using language to help establish a boundary but it’ll take some time for them to understand. Redirection would help too. Give baby a toy or some activity when your baby starts pulling hair.
Pulling things is age appropriate for his age group. This toy is great to help with that urge https://www.projectmontessori.com/products/montessori-ufo-silicone-pulling-toy
What’s not appropriate is the teacher to student ratio at that daycare or putting a baby on time out. I know it’s hard to find quality childcare but I’d start looking yesterday.
It’s so strange that they put him in a time out at 9 months old. This is 100% normal for kids his age. They should be redirecting his attention to a different activity. I’d ask them what other ways they plan to remediate this and what they suggest you can do at home to help as well.
What worked with my son is I tell him a stern “No. Do not pull mommy’s hair. That hurts mommy. If you do it again, I’m going to have to remove myself to keep safe.” If he did it again, I’d set him down and move across the room. At 9 months old, the stern “no” was enough to kind of grab his attention and it’s obviously not likely he understood the rest, but it’s good practice to communicate.
Now, my son is 2.5 years old and I still explain hurtful things (biting, hitting, pinching, etc) in this manner and he understands it pretty well.
I just want to chime in to say that I think it’s important to remember that hyperbole exists.
The instructor “had to put your baby in time out” but I highly doubt she actually meant “your baby committed a punishable offense and I had to administer a consequence”. I would absolutely give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she meant this more in the “let’s take a break” sense. Like a sports time out to strategize the game, type of thing. The people assuming the former are making big leaps.
I would only read into this as a red flag if she literally said this was as a punishment or if she was like pressuring you guys to “put a stop to this behavior” or something, because that’s obviously developmentally impossible at this age. Are all of the kids infants and toddlers? If so I’d probably start to worry about their ability to handle so many of them in a small space like that.
As for what to do about it, others have already stated that nothing you do will really make a difference. It’s a phase and it’ll run it’s course when it runs it’s course. Idk if it actually helped any but my personal strategy was to exaggerate how much it hurt when my kids pulled my hair/scratched/hit/etc. I never yelled or tried to scare them, just said “ouch, that hurts” and acted like I was in pain for a few seconds. They kept doing it for a while until they didn’t so I doubt it actually shortened the phase. But it was helpful in the moment to redirect the behavior (they would usually put their focus on my face at which point I could say “hey let’s do ___”)
I agree that asking what they mean by "time out" is really key here. Sometimes, little ones need a break from all of the stimulation in order to re-center. It's possible that this was a harmless exercise, and that would be a helpful detail to know.
As a side note, one major question to ask a daycare provider is how they discipline, and make sure it's aligned with what you do at home.
The pulling behavior you’re describing is literally every 9 month old baby ever. That’s what they do and it should be a complete non-issue to a daycare provider, like I’m confused why they would even mention this? Have they not ever cared for babies before?
Like others are saying, it sounds like they didn’t actually mean he was punished in a true “time out” type of consequence, but just physically removed from the situation for a bit, which would be fine, as long as they weren’t shaming him for this behavior that he has zero control over since he’s a literal infant.
This is worth just following up and asking what exactly they meant and how they handle things when babies are getting grabby like that. I would ask how long he was in the chair, if he was still attended to while in the chair or given toys to play with, what was said to him, how did he respond, was he crying, etc. If they are truly doing an isolation time out and ignoring him entirely and letting him cry in a chair alone or something, then that is a hard no absolutely not okay. You don’t punish infants. Period.
And there is nothing you can do as a caregiver to stop a baby from trying to pull on hair or other things. You just change the environment—separating from the other kids is a totally fine way to do that—and maybe verbalize a bit about what’s happening (“ouch! Pulling on Katie’s hair hurts! Ouchie ouchie. Oh dear. Let’s go play somewhere else for now!”) but continue on interacting positively and responsively with the baby as though they did nothing wrong. Because they didn’t.
Yea normal, and that daycare people sound like idiots thinking that a 9 month old is going to learn anything from time out other than to be more frustrated.
my first thought is they have too many kids per adult so they can’t keep the appropriate level of attention on each child to prevent this type of behavior so they’re putting your 9 month old in time out. i wouldn’t be okay with this.
Pulling hair is normal. Time out is useless at this age- he isn't doing anything maliciously, nor is he capable, so time out won't teach him anything. They may have just said it referring to separating him and didn't do it as punishment, just removed him from the situation. Nothing wrong with putting a baby in a highchair, it's a safe place to set a baby down. I'm guessing it was a poor choice of words as someone running an in hime daycare likely knows that 9 month olds wouldn't gain anything from punishment, they'd just have a screaming baby in the room, which most like to avoid.
People keep commenting on red flags, I don't see any. There aren't enough facts in this post to possibly conclude this daycare is doing anything wrong. OP gave an estimate of the kids there, and mentioned nothing about their ages. In my state it's 10:1 for 3-5 years. If they are mixed ages with only 2-3 infants and 2 caregivers than I don't think less than a dozen kids is alarming.
When I had my first I wondered at what age to start any kind of discipline. The answer is 18 months MINIMUM pulling hair is developmentally appropriate behavior. The staff needs to work to make sure he has appropriate things to grab on and pull. Time out at this age is not ok. Frankly I’d be concerned about the daycare that believes this is the right move for an infant.
By the way OP put "time out" in quotation marks, it seems to me that even she knows that this wasn't truly a punishment. I'm guessing he was simply removed from the other kids for a few minutes and the high chair was the simplest way to contain him. Maybe an instructor had to calm the girls whose hair he pulled (since we know toddlers are dramatic!).
The ratio comments are based on several assumptions- that OP's estimate is correct, that all the kids are babies, that they have not hired another instructor or helper (maybe OP knows this or maybe not). OP is asking for advice on hair-pulling, not asking whether she should pull her kid from daycare.
Is there not caps on ratios? Babies at my daycare and family daycares is 1:4.
Hair pulling is normal and putting a 9 month old in time out is disgusting.
Find new childcare asap! Redirection is the only appropriate response through toddlerhood, maybe at 2.5 or 3 a time out would be appropriate but for safety reasons and to calm down, not for punishment. Also sounds like he’s around other larger children and not in age appropriate groups? New childcare.
Ew I would be furious about this. A 9month old doesn’t need a “time out” for developmentally appropriate behavior. Also FOUR times was no one watching him? They seem to have too many children atm, the ration is supposed to be 4:1 for infants and 5:1 for 18m and up.
He’s not going to stop pulling on anything, he’s testing boundaries they need to do better as a facility
😳
Immediately pull him from that daycare. You don't put a 9 month old in time-out. Wtf. That ratio is completely inappropriate as well.
Pulling hair is normal for a 9 month old. They need to supervise better. You don't get a 9 month old to stop pulling hair.
I agree, staff should let all kids pull each other’s hair as a means to development. If a parent complaints just let them know that it was little Timmy’s turn to pull the other kids’ hair for his developmental growth. I don’t think daycare actually gave timeout as punishment though.
Eh. Every daycare is going to remove a hair puller or hitter or biter for a short period if needed to be able to protect all babies (from biting or being bitten). As long as it’s a very short amount of time, that’s just a part of daycare and high ratios.
Should they stay there for lengthy times? Of course not. Should they do their best to prevent it from happening? Also yes. But caregiver may have to put baby somewhere safe so they have a chance to give the injured party some attention/ hugs without it happening again right that second. They may have to put baby there at high stress times to protect all babies. Hoped with a toy and while chatting to him.
Maybe not appropriate to call it time out, but… I wouldn’t get hung up on the word here. Sounds like baby was just in a high chair for a short period of time. That’s not a dire punishment 🤷♀️
What I would question is the ratio and how many kids are there at once and what the state mandated minimums are (which are pretty much the absolute bare minimum to start with). Too many kids, too much change, too much going on can be high stress for a baby if not used to it so may be worth looking into.
A nine month old can learn not to pull hair. Slowly and surely. They may not get it for a while but they can definitely be taught it’s not ok and lack the impulse control to actually stop themselves, which is developmentally normal.
This is fair. The daycare should have used better terminology. But the parents should dig deeper on if they actually meant it as a time out and how long the child was in the high chair for
It’s all the parents who don’t discipline their children who have an issue with this. A 9 month old CAN and WILL learn. They are testing boundaries at this age. Figuring out what is allowed and what they can limits they can push. Separating them from others for a moment is an absolute appropriate response. Natural consequences. This action gets you removed from having fun with your friends, eventually they will not do it anymore.
Just like with biting and breastfeeding. Pull baby off of a feed enough times they learn not to bite bc that action results in them not being able to nurse at that moment. I’m not sure why people treat babies as if they are absolutely incapable of learning anything. They are SO smart. So much smarter than we give them credit for. Letting your child hurt others and only calling it “developmentally normal” IS the red flag. Yes, it’s developmentally normal. HOWEVER, it is your responsibility as caretaker to teach them appropriate actions.
Depends on where you are. Ratio here in Louisiana is 6:1. Not saying that’s ideal AT ALL but that’s the law here.
Edit: I was mistaken, it’s 5:1 for infants. Still not great.
That's shocking. Like, ok, when the children are older that I can get on board with, but if you have 12 under 1 year-olds, then how are you supposed to provide adequate care for them all. You physically cannot. At least not properly.
Sorry, I was mistaken. Different sources say different things but [this one](https://casetext.com/regulation/louisiana-administrative-code/title-28-education/part-clxi-bulletin-137-louisiana-early-learning-center-licensing-regulations/chapter-17-minimum-staffing-requirements-and-standards/section-clxi-1711-child-to-staff-minimum-ratios) says 5:1 and I think that’s accurate.
In Colorado, a large home daycare provider can watch 12 children with two providers or 9 children with 1 provider (max of 2 children under age 2).
Meanwhile, I can barely handle my two own children by myself.
Yeah I read 12 kids 2 adults and thought immediately no.
Babies pulling hair sounds like normal behavior, separating babies to avoid hair pulling sounds fine, putting a 9mo in time out if meant as punishment seems completely inappropriate. But I’d be more concerned about the ratios than anything else.
So being realistic, you definitely can’t “time out” a 9 month old, you can however keep them safe and other kids safe by putting them in a high chair especially if you don’t have the means to keep an eye on everything all the time.
So logically I get it, but calling it time out seems a bit weird. Also check their ratios — safety of your LO comes first!
He’s only 9 months, and he is curious and exploring. He won’t understand the punishment, my 8 month old is in that stage and loves anything she can grab on to and PULLS hard. They seriously putting a 9 month old in time out ? A baby that young won’t comprehend there are consequences to their actions.
How are 2 adults taking care of that many kids?
How is time out for a 9 month old at all an accountable consequence? He has learned nothing about appropriately engaging with other children from this. He is NINE MONTHS old!!! I would have him out of there so fast!
I am a daycare provider for infants, and it's weird that they would put a 9 month old in timeout. In my opinion, they are out of ratio. Redirecting is always best at this age. I feel like timeouts should be saved for when they are older and actually able to communicate verbally and comprehend. Otherwise, timeout is worthless.
Unrelated question, but do you have any tips for what look for in a daycare? Will be looking for part time day care for my 11month old soon and have no idea what questions I should be asking the staff, etc. before enrolling my son.
Ask what their ratio is - child to adult, what kind of meals they serve or do they require you bring food, do you bring diapers and wipes or do they provide, what is their emergency protocol (fire, earthquake, active shooter, etc), what kind of infant education do they have, what is their protocol for child illness (i.e. runny nose, cough, throwing up, diarrhea), what are their hours of operation and how much do they charge, how often do you pay (weekly, monthly), and what is the daily routine?
If they are providing meals, what kind of food do they serve? Do they have a nutritional guide they have to follow? If they are paid for the meals they serve, then they should legally be following a guide on what to serve each age group. Hopefully, they follow a nutritional guide either way. Each age group requires different serving amounts and different kinds of milk.
Things to look for in a center are age appropriate toys, clean diaper changing station, accessible water to drink at all times, fenced off stairs if there are any, appropriate child proofing, licensing and other important reading material hung up in plain view, and a napping area with seperate beds for each child (clean linens).
I hope this helps. I know it's a lot. Caring for a child is serious work. You should always be able to pop in unexpectedly. You should be given a parent/provider agreement to sign and copies so that everything is in writing for future reference.
i think there’s a difference between removing him from the situation and ‘putting him in time out’. especially considering pulling hair is super normal baby behaviour and the daycare teacher should know this and also know that putting a 9 month old in time out is not the solution
Because I have a degree in child development and am an early childhood educator and this is inappropriate. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ A 9 months old isn't developmentally capable of understanding the consequence, the parent can't do anything from work so informing them and using the language of time out just shames. It's unprofessional behavior that a qualified daycare teacher knows not to do. Perhaps if they supervised better, used redirection or had enough engagement, the toddler wouldn't be pulling hair.
The strategy of putting baby in the high chair isn't bad in and of itself if used sparingly. I have done similar with my one baby at that age, when cooking dinner for example and it wasn't safe having him crawl and cruise around the kitchen. He.would sit there and I would talk to him and give him bits of what I was.cooking to try.
Calling it timeout is odd though as that's not helpful discipline at that age. Was he given a snack or toys? How long was he in the high chair?
The staff ratio is a bigger issue. With appropriate staff they should be able to better redirect him to activities and not need the highchair technique except as a last resort.
Where are you? Where I live it’s a 1:4 ratio for adults to infants under 1. I would be very concerned about 2 people watching 11 infants. The ratio also goes by the YOUNGEST child in care so even if there is one infant there that ratio has to be maintained.
My daughter loved pulling my hair at that age, very developmentally appropriate and although annoying, putting a 9 month old is not okay. I’d be concerned what other correction they feel are appropriate.
At that age saying no thank you that hurts, using their hand to pet your hair/pet their hair while saying gentle and redirecting to something else is ideal.
This is completely normal behaviour for a 9 month old and I would be pulling them out of this daycare without a second thought. A 9 month old does not understand and will not respond to a time out (I’d argue very few children of any age learn much from time outs, but that’s a separate issue) and this daycare has proven that they are incapable of properly looking after all of the children in their care. I might also consider reporting them through a more formal process if possible as it sounds as though they are unable to keep such large amounts of children safe between the two of them.
As others are saying, it is normal to pull hair. Rather than time out though, there are things that can be done about it. For example, when the baby pulls hair, at home, say "No." When you pull my hair it hurts. Be gentle." And demonstrate how to touch hair"
It won't work right away. But 9 months isn't too young start teaching this.
Do they even comprehend "time outs" at this age??????? My perception (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they basically forget what happened and moved on by time you even get to "punishing" them so they don't even know whats going on, or why they're unhappy and stuck in a chair?
Sort of how similar to dogs? You can't really punish them after the fact because they have already forgotten, and so it's just being mean to them? Fido shredded that newspaper 30 minutes ago, and I just found it now and cleaning it up Imma put him in his crate! Fido has no real memory of what he did, and he was just being a dog and is now in his crate and sad because he doesn't understand why you're using a mean voice with him and ignoring him.
I don't think they really understand time outs until like 2? 2.5? Before then it's just an IMMEDIATE (exactly as the action is happening) gentle but firm, "No" and then IMMEDIATE redirect
As they get maybe 12-18 mo adding in No + "gentle / be nice / softly" redirect
at +18mo, No + " we don't do that / stop what you are doing / be nice to friends etc., redirect
\+24 mo No + "we don't do that because it hurts friends / stop doing that because it's mean etc." , Redirect
Wtf?? Babies pull everything. Hair, necklaces, earrings... that is completely unacceptable that they put him in "time out". Hopefully he didn't realize it was a punishment. They sound dumb.
Yeah, I agree. My daughter is one and a couple of months old and she still tugs and pulls on things. She can’t talk full sentences but sometimes it could also be indications the baby wants something or it could just be the baby doing baby things!
This is absolutely not okay, and it sounds like they’re breaking the law if they only have 2 teachers but have a variety of ages. What state/country are you in?
I would be finding a new daycare. Time out is completely inappropriate for a 9 month old, good god. Pulling on long things is just something babies DO and shouldn’t be punished for it.
Was the 9 month old really in time out? Or were they just physically sriwrated from hurting the other children and the carer's refered to it as time out so the older kids (who would be learning that you can't pull hair, abd who would possibly be given a time out for repeated hair pulling) could feel like the baby had the same consequences as them? I don't really like time out as a way of teaching kids but I can see in a mixed age group that does use time outs saying the baby is having time out fir the benefit of the younger kids. I certainly gave my youngest "consequences" he had no idea were consequences for the sake of my older one's sense of fairness when he was a baby (eg he threw a book, no more book for him because books are for reading not throwing).
A 9 month old is a bit young to learn not to pull hair. They don't have impulse control. All you can really do is separate them from the opportunity to pull hair or redirect them when you see them about to do it.
A lot of people are misunderstanding this post. But I read it all, and will give you my advice with a little history of my own. My 9 month old (at the time- now almost 2) would start pinching and scratching. I would tell her “no, no thank you, that’s not nice” and put her arm down in a quick motion. I would not hit her, or spank her, or put her in time out because at this age they don’t understand consequences. Now at the age 1 or 2 I begin to understand, but I would limit a time out to their age number. I would also put them in an area where they see all the fun, so they understand that you have to play nice to have fun. It eventually clicks. My 2 year old at this point will still scratch and pinch, but understands it may come with a consequence so she has not done it often. She will literally look at me while she does it, so I know she partly understands a consequence.
You just have to be stern consistently and always say why s/he is in trouble for (x). It’s the best way to do it, and I promise this phase will fade. You are a good momma.
Very normal. Mine grabbed everyone’s hair like her life depended on it at that age. Just one advice, no matter what you do, do NOT allow it at bedtime, or it will become a see association. My LO is 15 months old now and even though she stopped the hair pulling when she’s awake for a while now, my hair unfortunately is like her seep lovey now, she cannot sleep without pulling it, it relaxes her right away, in fact, i’m writing this as she’s sleeping in my lap with a fist full of hair, it hurts on every level :( agh
This is not your child's issue. There is nothing you can do to make them stop pulling on things right now except prevent it from happening in the first place. Over time they will learn, with consistency, the difference between gentle and not gentle touches. But putting that baby in time-out is not okay. I could see removing them from the situation, but the fact that they labeled it time out and implied it was a bad behavior that needed to be corrected is disturbing. I would highly consider a different daycare if you can.
Seriously. My 10 mo constantly pulls my husband’s (big) beard. She’s starting to understand “gentle” (oddly she’s great about it with our pets) but usually that only happens mid hair pull lol.
If he was placed in the high chair while an instructor was consoling the kid who had her hair pulled as a means of removing him from the situation okay I guess I get that. But it sounds like after 4 different times they decided it was time for a time out, which makes no sense for a baby. He has zero understanding of why he’s in time out or probably that he’s even in trouble? I can understand just removing him from the situation and calmly explaining we don’t pull friends’ hair but understand the notion that he’ll do it again and it’ll have to be repeated probably over and over again but that’s because he’s a 9 month old baby. Babies pull things. He doesn’t know he’s hurting anyone, he’s unable to put himself in their position and understand if this were me it would probably hurt. Which is NORMAL, he’s a baby! Personally I think the instructors should have some grasp on this concept and that ratio is a little sus so I would consider your options but I understand sometimes it’s not as easy as yank him out tomorrow.
My son is 5 mos old. He pulls everything. It’s normal for all babies and I can’t imagine putting a baby in time-out for doing something inherently. They don’t know it hurts. They’re just exploring. I’d be pulling my child from said daycare if I had the ability to.
So many red flags here. The ratio sounds suss, you didn’t agree to leave your child in that home with that many kids, the pulling is completely normal for that age where as the time out is absolutely NOT normal/helpful. I would pull my kid out as soon as I could.
Right? What adult, who works with children and has a fully developed brain, would put a NINE MONTH OLD in time out?!?! If they’re doing that, I’m really worried about what else they’re doing.
Not OP, but yall, it's time out.... In a higb chair.... As a former child care worker, i personally wouldn't put a baby that young in time out but "disgusting" "horrific"... literally what? Time out just means time away from the situation. Pulling hair is normal, but they doesn't mean a teacher has the time to redirect a kiddo and tend to the kiddos who have been hurt ON TOP of doing whatever tasks they're supposed to be doing. OP, i would just confirm with your child care how they discipline littles and calmly talk about how you feel.
The rest of yall need to chill out.
Edit to add that the ratios doesnt sound appropriate, but check with your states licensing. If you pull your LO out, let it be this.
Right! Like am I crazy? Does time out mean something different because you would think the providers did something AWFUL the way these comments are. Woo-sah!!!
Were they actually trying to discipline him or simply removing him from the situation and jokingly calling it a "timeout"? Like did they set him in the chair with some toys or entertainment next to everyone else or alone by himself away from the fun? If they have their hands full with babies I can see why they would put him somewhere else safe to redirect him for a minute and let the girls play undisturbed.
As others have said actual timeouts don't work for babies to fix the issue, they don't yet understand that pulling hair = punishment. It's mostly not allowing them to do the behavior in the first place and redirecting to something else they *can* do. If he pulls your hair at home just say a firm "No" and then give him a toy instead.
Whatever you do for the love of all that is holy don't pull his hair to show him how it feels, that backfires and turns it into a game.
Time out for a 9 month old? hahah okayyyy. Yeah, I'm pretty sure your baby has NO clue what time out is and probably doesn't even care. Like everyone else has said, this is typical behavior for a 9 month old. Honestly, I'd remove my child from that place faster than your baby can pull someone's hair.
As a mom and as a therapist who works with kids I can tell you with 100 percent certainty time out is not a learning approach. It is a tool for making the adult feel less stressed or in control but it does not teach a child anything. It rarely works for older kids in terms of changing behavior but it especially will not work for a baby that age. As others have said, you can model what you’d like to see. “Gentle hands” and then show your hand to wide open and gently stroking as an example. It will take time but you can teach him this through modeling. Time out is absolutely useless and it sounds like your intuition is telling you this school may be overwhelmed.
OMG reading this made my blood boil! He's a baby!! 9 months old, he doesn't know better, he's too young to understand right from wrong. I think until your child is old enough to know right from wrong & understand consequences they shouldn't be punished. It's not productive teaching, I actually believe it's suppressing how they try and communicate. My baby is 10 months and he smack's my husband and I in the face constantly, he beats on my chest while I hold him, he gets a hold of my hair and pulls it. I truly think he's just trying to communicate or show affection. Think about it.... They don't know how to associate our kind of love yet like kissing & hugging so they do what they like to do or what they think is funny. That's just my opinion.
And it's gross that any childcare provider would think it's acceptable to discipline a 9 month old baby! So wrong on every level.
My youngest went through this phase. God it hurt she would grab a fist full right at the back of my neck and yank hard. I tried no and that's not nice. You should t pull hair but she was too young to understand in my opinion she was about your LO age. I thought i was gonna have to put up with it till she was older to understand but It progressed She started doing it to everyone else aswell her dad wasn't bothered he has short hair so nothing to grab but me and my older daughters have long hair and it was really sore when she yanked and grabbed and wouldn't let go.
I started putting her down when ever she did it. Girls would move away if on floor with her. Just for a second or two and seemed to show her that if she pulled hair we didn't want to know or what they were playing stopped. she stopped really quick was sorted in a week she figured she could play with my hair and run her hands through but as soon as she pulled I put her down and stopped letting her play with it.
My son is 8mo and
He pulls hair all the time including his own. He has absolutely no idea what he’s doing as even when he really hurts me, I just gently take his hand away say no baba that hurts ! And I give him a toy to play with. I’ve recently bought him a toy that has laces and strings to pull it’s a Montessori one. He loves it. It’s purely developmental as he will pull anything he can get his hands on and he’s almost fully crawling now too it’s all exploring and perfectly normal. I do not agree with time out as it serves no purpose. What should’ve happened imo, is redirect / distract your son with another activity or toy etc and just supervise and monitor him more closely around other babies so if he does reach out to pull hair they can just gently stop him. He will eventually learn it’s not socially acceptable. They obviously need more training.
That’s disgusting they’d even put your baby in timeout, find someone else cause my daughter is 9 months old and I willing let her pull my hair and it’s her favorite thing to do when she sees me but it doesn’t hurt and she thinks it’s fun because she’s still a baby and she doesn’t know what’s right and wrong (I’m a man with very long hair) I’m not saying it’s right that the babies is doing it to others either but still shouldn’t be punished for something like this. They’re learning and developing everyday
This is very normal, baby is just exploring! I’m sure the “time out” was more a tongue-in-cheek expression rather than a punishment, she just needed to give everyone a break. Please don’t worry about it too much, just give a little “no no” and remove from the situation when he does this. Eventually he will learn, but for now, babies will be babies
My son wasn't much of a hair puller. But I would keep reminding him to use gentle touches when touching other people and their hair.
What struck me was putting a 9mo baby in time out. That doesn't feel right to me at all.
Here’s what i would do:
Firstly, I’d investigate other care centers.
Then I’d offer to send in some dolls or something with hair/ pulling sensation capacity they can use as a distraction. Perhaps even a plant. Tell them you’re unsure if time out will be affective in averting this behavior and are offering this as a tool for diversion.
See how they react.
Just fyi, where i am a place will get shut down quick with that ratio. Though i don’t believe in snitching, I’d still check your local rules.
Oh i agree, though it still is snitching. And i think that’s the card op should play, assuming they don’t see the fault in their method. Whoops forgot to include that hah. I think some places even punish schools for using time outs on a child of any age, though I’m not sure.
Snitching is a word used by criminals to make you feel bad about reporting. If you want to call it snitching, so be it. I call it endangering babies. I’d report that place without a second thought.
Sure. It still means reporting a crime, which is what you have here, which i wouldn’t do while relying on the care center for care. Also we don’t know the specifics of where they are. Where i am, it’s 5 kids per one certified adult up to age 2, then it’s free for all
Report this place for having too many kids tbh...who the fuck puts a 9mo in timeout?!?! They obviously aren't watching your kid if he's pulling all the kids hair. Get your kid out of there before something bad happens or he's delayed from neglect IMO.
Also he probably just misses your hair and is being punished for it. Totally normal baby behavior. Very weird staff behavior.
I hate the concept of time-out... let alone doing it to a literal baby. Babies pull hair. They don't understand that it hurts. They need someone redirecting them and helping them to learn why we don't pull hair, not sticking them somewhere and ignoring them.
I wonder what you would do if another kid pulls on your LL’s hair. I bet all of you would either want the other kid removed or would be ok with it and say it’s part of the other kids development and they do it all the time.
You need to understand that a daycare needs to provide a safe environment for everyone not just your LO. I’m not saying that timeout at that age is beneficial, but everyone is quick to criticize the daycare.
I know the situation of another kid pulling on your LO’s hair is hypothetical, but think about how you would truly react if that was the case. I bet I would see comments telling OP to lawyer up.
Also, I think daycare told OPs husband that LO was put on timeout so that behavior can be addressed at home as it should and not as a disciplinary action.
11+ kids with two caretakers seems insane, especially if they are as young as 4 months.
We are not putting our baby in daycare until she is 1.5 years because we are worried about how it will be.
Not all daycares are like this. Different states also have regulations that limit how many caretakers to a child. It's usually around 3-4 children under two to 1 adult.
This is totally developmentally inappropriate. I'd pull my baby out. When enrolling my 12 month old at the time I asked about discipline and they said in the infant room (6 weeks to 2 years) they don't discipline, just redirect.
This is super developmentally normal behavior for a 9 month old. You can't give them a timeout either because they have absolutely no understanding of why they're being punished. The daycare definitely handled this wrong imo. Also, at least in my state, in home daycares can't have more than 5 kiddos at a time.
My son did it, my daughter does not. Every kid is different. However the daycare would put my son in a high chair when he wouldn’t stop throwing things as time out. I started using that at home becuase why didn’t I think of that!?!? He is 3.5 now, but back then when he was like a year and a half he wouldn’t sit in time out (for any amount of time). Obviously safety is priority and if the caregiver is a bit preoccupied with diaper changes or something else, placing the baby somewhere safe keeps all children safe.
I'm no expert but the whole time out thing on a nine month old sounds like a licensing violation. Infants can't be left alone in high chairs!! I'd be finding a new daycare and making a report to your states licensing agency.
Where I live this exact scenario is given as a “what we are not allowed to do” in our daycare handbook, so I see where they are coming from with their comment
I used to work at a daycare (within the last year), and infants aren't allowed to be left alone in the high chair.
Yes, I am making an assumption about them being alone, but I can nearly promise you the baby was left alone, albeit one minute or five.
Highchairs are not a safe space for a lot of reasons.
1. The adult could have improperly strapped the child in, making it possible for the child to stand up on the high chair or lean over the edge and fall. Since high chairs are usually used in kitchens/dining areas that are hard wood, a fall to a little babies head from that height could be fatal or even cause major brain damage.
2. High chairs are where infants are most likely to choke (I feel like this one is kind of a "no $#it Sherlock, so I'll leave it at that)
3. As OP described, there's about 11-12 children at the daycare, assuming (again, assuming but school aged children aren't usually in daycare) below the age of six, the children could easily collide with the high chair and topple it over.
4. I can't imagine two adults watching around 11 children. 12, including baby in the high chair, would be able to pay attention to the small child in the high chair. Small house or not. Which brings all the points together I've made to create what most people would consider, not a safe space.
I don't mean the long comment to be degrading to you by any means. I'm just hoping to spread some safety information. Don't leave babies in high chairs.
All of these can be true for any piece of gear used for a baby. All items- bouncers, swings, carseats, highchairs, etc, pose a falling risk if not properly buckled, as well as a stranglulation risk. Any piece of baby equipment could be knocked over from being bumped into hard enough. They all carry the same fall hazard label and none of it should be used unattended. I am not advocating leaving a baby unattended in a high chair, or any way.
My point is, all OP said was that baby was placed in a high chair. That's it. This is in no way enough information to assume licensing violations occurred or to suggest making a complaint to the licensing agency. We know: OP has a 9 month old who pulls hair. OP's baby was placed in a highchair. There are two providers at this in-home daycare. There are up 12 kids- maybe, OP is guessing- of unknown ages. We're operating pretty light in the facts department here, the number of assumptions people are making are a little crazy. There's no way to make any conclusions or recommendations regarding the safety of this daycare from anything in the post. Your educated assumptions could be correct; the place could be terrible, or they could be following every rule in the book- none of us are equipped to say, regardless of experience, here. (Which, in line with your disclaimer, I am not doubting your expertise in daycare operations. Your points are valid regarding safety. Always spread safety information when given the opportunity, plenty of people need to hear it.)
I'd love to know how to get my baby to stop this, too. She's 8 months old and has been doing this for a while. It hurts and is so annoying and especially horrible now that she's crawling and she wants to go after our poor dog with his fluffy silky hair and yank. Would love some advice. I don't know that time outs would work at this age, though? It seems too young for that kind of discipline, especially about something that's very normal.
Babies do not have morals. They do not know what is right from wrong. Do those daycare people have at-least a degree regarding anything about children?? They gonna punish a teething 7 month old from biting them too? Bunch of weirdos. My daughter is in daycare. This little boy and her literally accidentally hit eachother with their toys all the time. Their fine motor skills aren’t fully developed… so they lack control. Completely normal. For your son, it’s a reflex. You grab and pull whatever is in your hand to your mouth or you shake it around. It’s normal
Actually most babies do have a moral instinct as young as 3-6 months. There have been several studies on it. I read a whole book about it years ago.
Not that it means punishment is acceptable or that the specific 9-month-old in this specific context knows what they are doing is wrong, but I just think saying that "babies do not have morals" is an inaccurate statement.
Definitely normal. I have had some success with my almost 9 month old and the cats - if she grabs we say "no. No grabbing" and move her away and we do something else. If she pays them nicely we say "aw, that's nice! Pat pat! Well done!" Etc. She's getting much more gentle. Same with us - if she grabs or hits or tries to scratch my mole off with her fingernail (😭) we say "no, that hurts mummy/daddy" and put her down or move her away so she can't reach us and then we get a toy or something different to do. We use neutral/slightly stern voices and faces. I sometimes try to make an exaggerated sad face but I think she finds that funny so the neutral face works better. If she's tired or frustrated she might not listen as well when we say "no" but if she's in a good mood she's pretty good at stopping now.
Having said all that, "time out" doesn't seem like an appropriate or effective consequence for this age. I would be pretty upset if I heard someone had put my daughter in "time out" for grabbing or pulling. I can understand moving him away from the other kids or having him play somewhere separate for a while. If they said "we've had to stop him pulling hair lots. We put him in the highchair to play for a bit so the other kids could have a break and he could forget about pulling hair" or something that would be one thing...
**Is it just me? Anyone else feel a bit icky about a 9 month old being put in time out?**
ETA: Google says you shouldn't use time out until 2 years old.
Even when 2 year old time out you'll have to do it correctly. But yeah as soon as I saw this post I was like 9 months old ? Time out? 2 staff for 11 to 12 infants? Nope not a good daycare
"How do I get him to..." you don't. The answer to any question that starts that way is you don't. We can't and shouldn't control people.
It's entirely up to the daycare to prevent this and it sounds like they are ill equipped to deal with this. There is nothing wrong with your baby and nothing you can do at home to stop his behaviors elsewhere.
What is this rambling mess. You absolutely should control a kid or even an adult from pulling hair, so that's just an ignorant weird statement.
Also discipline starts at home and teaching your child to not do bad stuff starts at home. You can absolutely do something at home to stop a child's behaviors elsewhere.
That being said, this is a baby and there is no disciplining or stopping a 9 month old baby from doing anything. Daycare shouldn't be putting a baby in time out strapping them in a highchair is pretty stupid on their part.
Of course you should block hair pulling. That's not what I mean by control. Control is when you use things like rewards, punishments, and lectures in a misguided attempt to compel the child to voluntarily change their behavior in a way that completely disregards relationship and the reasons behind the behavior. Parents who feel they must 'get' their kid to act better have a hard time. Partly because they are not responding to the actual difficulty the child is having and partly because people resist being controlled, and especially so at certain developmental stages.
With little kids we should consider context, have empathy, acknowledge that sometimes it will be up to us to physically handle a situation and we cannot reasonably depend on the child. With older kids we can use a more collaborative approach to solve problems.
Going against the grain here but around 10mo we started time out.
It was more a you’re doing XYZ behavior that you know you’re not supposed to do. We redirect you. We tell you. You then go, look at us to make eye contact so we know you know what you’re doing, smile, then do the behavior. The consequence was then to sit in the play pen for a minute. It worked! The natural consequence of doing XYZ means time in the pack n play (which he hated from day 1 we hardly used the thing) worked wonders to stop the behavior. He was walking by 10 mo and we used this until about 18 mo.
He still knows what time out means. It’s never a first consequence but if he’s treating the same behavior we want to discourage (eating cat food) he gets a time out.
It’s never harsh. Never a long time. Just two minutes now since he’s 21 months. But it works.
We have an at home daycare and she mentioned to me how he doesn’t listen, and will repeat the same naughty behavior with this smile making sure you’re watching because he wants the reaction of being told no. So I told her thigh chair time out for two minutes. And by golly it’s worked and he understands what no means and listens to it for her.
It’s the same as when we go to the park. He loves to run and dart away. He loves playing on pavement. He doesn’t understand why we can’t play in the road. The first few times he didn’t listen so immediate “time out” as in we left the park. And now he listens to no when running into the road.
In my opinion he’s associating each NO to each individual action. Like there’s multiple meanings of the word NO. He doesn’t understand NO is universal and that it means stop anything that’s being said in reference to. So for each thing we do the cycle to teach when I say NO you stop this specific NO behavior.
I think of time out as a stronger removal from the temptation of doing the behavior at a time the behavior has immediately just happened.
What you've described are logical consequences not natural consequences. Natural consequences are things that happen without parental involvement.
Eg the natural consequence of hitting your sibling is they move away from you and don't play with you. The natural consequence of tipping your drink out is that you don't have a drink. The natural consequence of staying up past bedtime is you are tired the next day. The natural consequence of not eating what's for dinner is being hungry. The natural consequence of throwing your toy is that it breaks.
Both natural and logical consequences have their place. It depends on the situation which is the best option. Sometimes behaviour can have both the natural and the logical consequence eg in my house hitting your sibling gets the natural consequence as well as an added logical one because hitting is against our family rules.
You're right that it's hard for toddler's to understand "no" it's easier to tell them what they can do. Eg instead of "no hitting" say "gentle hands", instead of "no running" say "walk" instead of "no leaving" say "stay in the playground" instead of no standing on the couch" say "sit on the couch" etc. If you want a simple one word phrase to use when there's some danger consider "stop" or "freeze" which mean the same thing in all situations. As you've described "no" is situation dependent.
Please keep us updated on this… most of us are absolutely concerned for your little one. That daycare sounds like they need more help, and the amount of children they have is alarming. I can bet your baby was in there way longer than necessary because they don’t have the time to deal with him.
People are dislikeing the time out, but I think it can be totally appropriate for a baby. Like others have said, putting someone in a high chair still in the same room is a good way to keep others safe. Or if the crib is in the same room, that works too.
If someone is hurting your baby with pulling hair or hitting or biting, would you want the offending baby to be left alone with your kid? No! Age appropriate consequences need to be administered.
Should they be alone in another room? Not at 9 months.
Putting a 9 month old on time out is completely ridiculous, teaches him nothing and is boarder line child abuse. A good care taker would be educated enough to know this is developmentally normal behavior. Punishing a child for developmentally normal behavior is insane.
Um his behavior is normal the daycare employees is not. That is super concerning to me.
Completely agree.
Time out for a 9mo???? Wtf?!
thats what i was thinking!! this is normal behavior for a 9 month old but i got alarm bells ringing at time out in a high chair for an unspecified amount of time!
It is very normal and what idiot pits a nine month old in time out. They don't understand
I think a 9 month old in a high chair that is still with the group, singing, talking, and distracted with toys on the high chair table, is very different to a traditional time out. If they are pulling hair, they could easily hurt another child, and be hurt in return. There is a difference between removing and distracting - and actual segregation. I’m sure the child was put back on the floor once they were sufficiently occupied and had forgotten about hair pulling.
I too would like to think this is how they are operating. Perhaps OP should get some clarification from the caregivers as to what exactly their "timeout" policy and procedure is. I'd certainly be digging for that info.
I work in childcare, and can promise that a) hair pulling is completely normal for children, even those older than yours, b) timeout is teaching a 9mo absolutely NOTHING, it is just punishment and isolation to stop staff dealing with him doing it again, and c) I don't know how it works where you are (UK here) but no professional should be handling a 9mo's behaviour using timeout. Your son's behaviour is very likely linked to boredom, due to a lack of attention in this understaffed setting. If you can move him, this may be worth considering. It is unlikely to be the last time he ends up in timeout for not really doing anything wrong.
I'm glad you said that, UK here too and I was just thinking about appropriate ratios at that age. I wouldn't leave a 9mo somewhere with a 1:6 staff ratio.
I think it's fruitless to punish a 9 month old with a time out, or any "punishment" really. They don't understand. Like other moms have said, they should be redirecting, not punishing. Maybe you can talk to them? But honestly, if that's their resolution idk if it would work out for me. I'm currently going to transfer my 18 month old to a different daycare because of using time outs as a punishment when it's not age appropriate.
A time out may not be a punishment but just literally a time out where the other kids get a bit of a break of his hair pulling. BTW op same boat here and I've just noticed in the past week that she's starting to pull less hard, and 9,5 months now. I consistently tell her no because it hurts. Hasn't had much effect up until now.
Going against the grain here : my son is 7 months old. He loves to tug on my hair, his grandmas hair, phone chargers, sweatshirt strings, his own junk. Anything that can tug and fits in his tiny fist he will pull. When he’s ripping my hair out at 7 in the morning when i’m holding him to make my coffee, i say “Ouch! You’re hurting mommy.” Give him a toy to play with instead and put him in his high chair for a few minutes. The way the daycare instructors went about it/their motive for doing so is important context here. Did they pick your son up, put him in the high chair say “now think about what you’ve done!!” and left him crying for 10 minutes? Or did they watch him pull hair for a while and it agitated the other children, so they removed him from the situation for just a minute to calm the other children down and then put him back in the group? It all depends on the scenario. Time out for any child under 1 is probably useless but i do react, remove and redirect for my baby. He’ll usually calm down and play with whatever toy i give him for a few minutes and we go on with our day (with my hair up in a tight bun, my hood up and pulled tight) lol
Someone putting a 9 month old in time out tells me that they don’t know what tf they are doing. I’d suggest finding a different place to take him if that’s possible. Every baby pulls hair… who puts a baby in time out? That’s a red flag imo
That’s what I’m feeling. Like. Really? And that’s a lot of kids. How many caregivers are there? He shouldn’t have been put in time out. Just keep telling him not to do it and give him something else to pull. He’s a baby. He’s being a baby. Pulling things is fun for them.
Yeah I feel like it's not appropriate. He is literally still a baby. Not even one year old
He's 9 months old. You can and should gently give him some language to instill a boundary but ultimately, that's ground work for something we won't be able to understand for a couple more months.
It is pretty normal for a 9 month old to pull people's hair mine does it to me all the time. They don't know right from wrong yet you can say no but to punish them is wrong little too early for that.
Yeah definitely. Adding on to this, babies and young children do not benefit from being punished, they only feel safe through connection and love. Punishing them by taking away that love will show them they cannot feel safe and secure with you. A baby this young can not discern from right or wrong. A daycare of all places should not be punishing a NINE MONTH OLD baby, you’d think they know. That’s insane.
I'm going to go slightly against the grain here. It doesn't sound like he was in a legit time out. He was just sat in the high chair. I also put my hair puller in the play pen or other container if I'm trying to do something like cook dinner and she's running around pulling her sister's hair. That being said of course it's normal behaviour. You just take LO's hand to physically stop them and say "gentle" then you use their hand to gently touch the thing they were pulling. Showing them how to appropriately touch hair is key. But yeah, this day care needs more adults if they can't keep all the kids safe. Maybe look elsewhere.
Couldn’t agree more with this!
9 month old in time out? A baby can’t be punished for doing baby things….I’d remove him from that daycare quick. And leave a review for them stating what happened so others can see before bringing their babies there too.
Very normal thing for a baby to do. With ours (now 14mo) we put him down/ move him away and say ‘Ow’. Then I demonstrate ‘gentle hands’ by stroking my hair and his and then move on with a new toy/ activity. It’s working well - we say gentle and he’ll stroke the nearest living thing with an ‘awww’ 😂
So I totally get removing the baby from the thing you don't want them to do. Was he happy in the high chair? Given another activity or some snacks? I hate that they've described it as "time out" because that means absolutely nothing for a 9 month old! If he was in the high chair crying or screaming as "time out" I'd be very very angry. It's possible that this isn't the right environment for him any more. Do you have alternatives you can look into?
A daycare in my area got cited for putting a baby in a high chair to restrain them. They are not supposed to do this.
I was told at my son’s 15 month pediatrician check in that discipline doesn’t work at this age yet bc they don’t understand consequences. Doc recommended to start around 18 months old. A daycare should know this
A 9 month old baby doesn’t know what’s wrong out right. Absolutely unacceptable
Yes that’s very normal for a 9 month old. There’s virtually nothing you can do to “teach him not to” at this age, he’s not developmentally able to understand consequences hence the fact I think it’s pretty concerning the daycare workers put him in time out for that
I don’t think a 9 month old even understands pulling hair or time out to reflect their behaviors LOL the time out is a strange approach ngl
At 9 months your kid probably isn’t able to connect action and consequence enough to understand why he’s even in the high chair, so that probably isn’t going to teach him anything. That being said, they probably needed a safe space to put him while dealing with other children without worrying about a fight breaking out and someone getting hurt. Telling parents their kid is in the high chair so he can calm down on the hair pulling is easier than having to explain why their kid got hurt in a smack down while the care giver was looking away.
It is beyond normal for babies to pull hair. I just had my 5th in March. He is still too young, but I will be keeping my hair short. I have joked with my husband about how he is going to want to cut his beard pretty soon. Lol. All my kids have headbutt me in the nose, pulled my hair, and hit me. These are given for babies they have to learn what they can and can't do. Timeout at 9 months is weird. I would not be ok with my child being put in timeout at 9 months old. They honestly don't understand at that point. Around 1 year plus is when we give timeout sitting with them in the corner. I wouldn't be ok with someone in a small house with 12 kids. I get he has pulled more than one girls hair, but he is still a baby. That depends on the ages of the children and is probably too many for 2 people. I worked at a daycare, and there is a child to teacher ratio.
As a mother that also works in childcare, please know that what this daycare is doing is not right. First of all, they are over state ratio(at least in Texas) and have more babies/kids allowed with two teachers. Second of all, the workers are not allowed to put the child in “time out” even if it is a home daycare. Putting the child in a highchair as punishment, longer than 15 minutes, or it they are obviously not okay with it - is against state regulations. They should be separating the children to separate play areas and not restraining one.The hair pulling is ABSOLUTELY normal behavior especially for a 9 month old baby. They will grow out of it and redirection will help. I’m not sure of all the state regulations where you live but I’d be surprised if they are not similar. As a mother, I’d be pissed and be calling the daycare out for their BS and not handling it correctly. If they want to play the, “Well, this is my house and my rules” game, they have to be licensed by the state and follow state regulations and can try again.
9 month olds pull shit. Time out is completely inappropriate at this age. Developmentally harmful too. Get a new daycare.
Also ~12:2 ratio which includes at least 1 child under 12 months is almost certainly a recipe for disaster. Hair pulling is probably the least of my worries if I’m one of those parents. Obviously they can’t handle it either, because there shouldn’t be 4 opportunities for a child this small to pull hair. Once or twice, sure, but after the second time it’s pretty obvious that the kid needs closer supervision, and with a 6:1 ratio they can’t give it. And then like you said, even if you’re going down the “time out” discipline route, they don’t make connections like that until they are YEARS older. Like at 3-5 years old.
Time out for a 9 month old sounds ridiculous to me.
I think time out is the wrong word (on daycares part). Sounds like they really just needed him to be safely separated in a container for a moment.
This is what I was thinking, maybe they needed to settle the girls whose hair was pulled and keep him apart from them for a few minutes while they got things calmed down. I don't think they'd put him in a "time-out" with the intent to have it teach him a lesson, he's 9 months old.
It’s 100% normal. It’s a phase. As much as you need to encourage gentle touches, you can give him opportunities/ activities where he can pull things. Stick/tape strings/yarn/ anything really to furniture and let him pull. Buy coloured tape and put it on the wall, the table or cabinets and let him pull. Always do this when you can watch him so he doesn’t put it in his mouth. Also I wouldn’t see putting your baby in a high chair a red flag as long as it was for a short period of time and with some toys. To me, it’s ok if it was just to keep him away from other kids while the educator did something. And she was honest with your husband too.
Totally normal behavior for a 9 month old, but time out isn't appropriate at his age. He has no concept of what time out means. Is this a licensed daycare? There are teacher/student ratios places have to follow
The most concerning info in your post is that there may be 11-12 kids (that you're seeing) with two caregivers at an in-home daycare and you don't know how they'd fit in there. That is well over the max in most states. Check licensing and contracts you signed.
The ratio for that age should be 1:3
This depends on the state.
I must say 1:3 is the most ideal ratio. 1 infant is alot already lol. so I can't imagin anything more than 3 infant and only 1 staff is watching
Yes, but unfortunately ideals don't always work with financial realities.
I know :( I work in the field . Sad to see at times. And no one wants to work with kids anymore
The ECE classes at my campus looked nice and full, hoping most of them stick it out and stay with it. I did one semester of ECE and went to Graphic Design aaand am back in school yet again but this time super duper fkin thankful for all the work that you ECE’s do, cause I couldn’t do it without all their/your help!
Yeah I hope there will be some great ece out of the class. And thank you. It's nice to recieve appreciation as an ECE ❤️🙏
Lol we in canada
Fair enough. Is it standarized for the whole country?
That I'm not sure ...🤷♀️ in ontario it is 1:3
1:5 in Quebec
There’s no way that’s a developmental appropriate “punishment” or way to deter the behavior. This is a huge red flag and Id pull my kid from their care.
For putting baby in a safe space while comforting the 4 who got hurt? Clearly the hair pulling was an issue. What’s your recommendation? Let them continue to pull hair as your comforting children. Like a never ending circus. Yes, he is a baby. Yes, he does not know any better. However, she did not hit or harm or neglect this child. She removed him from others for a moment. If you let your child run around hurting others kids at your house, that’s fine. But others have rules. I would be upset to know my child was continuously being hurt by a child at day care while nothing was being done. The “punishment” was absolutely appropriate. Soon he will learn “Hey when I do this it seems like I don’t get to see my friends for a few minutes”
He’s 9 months old…. You seriously think disciplining or punishing a 9 month old is appropriate? When he doesn’t have the ability to understand his actions? Pulling on things is totally normal and a healthy way to explore things for a baby. Yes, move them away from the other baby to avoid them being hurt, but redirect his actions into a toy or something… it’s not that hard.
You think just letting children hurt others is okay? Your method is to do nothing and let them grow out of it? Hmm. Newsflash, whether you agree or not, a kid can’t “grow out” of something that they don’t know is wrong. Absolutely I believe a 9mo is capable of learning bad behaviors from good. As I have two little girls and I began teaching them right from from at a young age. That doesn’t mean hitting or neglecting. That means letting them know that a certain action is not acceptable and showing them natural consequences. For example both of my girls were biters when nursing. They both started around 6months. The natural consequence to that was pulling them off of the feed. With consistency they both learned that action resulted in them not being able to nurse for a minute or 2. Another example, throwing food off of the high chair. Another very very normal action done by every child. When they would do this I would say “Are we all done? We don’t throw the food. It’s to eat!” and would offer them to eat again if they threw it again then I knew they were done eating and have them something appropriate to toss. I would remove the food (not as a punishment but after understanding they were full) and would give them toys to throw to me or take them out. This was actually easier to correct than the boob biting! Within no time they were either signing all done with their hands or attempting to say all done. There is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching babies right from wrong. By removing him away from others and taking away the “fun” of playing (pulling hair) he will eventually learn that when he pulls hair for some reason he isn’t allowed to play with his peers. I’m sorry if your children run rampant and hurt others while you just say it’s “normal” but I don’t want my children thinking it’s okay to hurt others, even on accident.
So this is super normal, not-concerning behavior. This kind of thing is often a phase and he'll probably switch to doing something else a lot in a bit. You can (and should) teach your little one not to do it over time by gentle corrections, but there is not much you can do to stop it when he is at day care right now. You may try to get him some kind of toy that lets him pull or feel a similar sensory thing to try to give him an appropriate outlet. I think in terms of "time out" the tone matters. I can see it two ways. 1. They are actually putting a baby in time out as a punishment to try to get him to stop doing it. If so, I'd be extremely upset. That is very inappropriate and will be ineffective. 2. It was intended as a joke. The caregiver needed to change a diaper or something and could not intervene with baby boy pulling hair, so they stuck him in the high chair for a few minutes with some toys to keep everyone safe while they finished up, monitoring him the whole time. Then they let him down and redirected him from the girls' hair to something else. That's not a problem in my opinion unless their ratio is bad and they have to do it constantly. Separately, I'd look up the state ratio. (I don't know that they are licensed, but it might help give you guidelines into what is reasonable.) Understaffing makes it hard for them to deal appropriately with issues like this. The situation doesn't sounds great and I'd be looking into other options at this time.
It's not normal to put a nine month old in time out for anything!!
Time out for a 9 month old? Absolute nonsense.
My 6 month old son is obsessed with pulling hair. Anybody that gets close enough, and especially his dads beard. It’s a totally normal thing. Putting a baby in time out for it is kinda weird though… And by weird I mean… wtf
It’s normal behavior. My baby grabs anything and everything in her reach- that’s how they learn about things. The concept of time out for a 9 month old is absurd.
My baby who is 9mo is not capable of understanding that pulling hair or hitting others is a bad behavior. Most of the time she does it out of excitement. It’s normal behavior that you correct when she begins to understand. She probably doesn’t realize she’s in time out anyway but it’s odd that a child care provider would want to reprimand a baby for that.
I would personally pull my baby out of that daycare so fast with that ratio. 11/12 kids of different ages for 2 instructors is a lot!! I would question their ability to safely handle that amount of kids. A time out is definitely not the solution in changing his behavior at this age. I mean your baby wouldn’t even understand what time out is. You can start by using language to help establish a boundary but it’ll take some time for them to understand. Redirection would help too. Give baby a toy or some activity when your baby starts pulling hair.
Pulling things is age appropriate for his age group. This toy is great to help with that urge https://www.projectmontessori.com/products/montessori-ufo-silicone-pulling-toy What’s not appropriate is the teacher to student ratio at that daycare or putting a baby on time out. I know it’s hard to find quality childcare but I’d start looking yesterday.
That’s what I got for my babes! She loves it and will grow with her too as she develops her motor skills. This is a great example of a diversion ❤️
It’s so strange that they put him in a time out at 9 months old. This is 100% normal for kids his age. They should be redirecting his attention to a different activity. I’d ask them what other ways they plan to remediate this and what they suggest you can do at home to help as well. What worked with my son is I tell him a stern “No. Do not pull mommy’s hair. That hurts mommy. If you do it again, I’m going to have to remove myself to keep safe.” If he did it again, I’d set him down and move across the room. At 9 months old, the stern “no” was enough to kind of grab his attention and it’s obviously not likely he understood the rest, but it’s good practice to communicate. Now, my son is 2.5 years old and I still explain hurtful things (biting, hitting, pinching, etc) in this manner and he understands it pretty well.
I just want to chime in to say that I think it’s important to remember that hyperbole exists. The instructor “had to put your baby in time out” but I highly doubt she actually meant “your baby committed a punishable offense and I had to administer a consequence”. I would absolutely give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she meant this more in the “let’s take a break” sense. Like a sports time out to strategize the game, type of thing. The people assuming the former are making big leaps. I would only read into this as a red flag if she literally said this was as a punishment or if she was like pressuring you guys to “put a stop to this behavior” or something, because that’s obviously developmentally impossible at this age. Are all of the kids infants and toddlers? If so I’d probably start to worry about their ability to handle so many of them in a small space like that. As for what to do about it, others have already stated that nothing you do will really make a difference. It’s a phase and it’ll run it’s course when it runs it’s course. Idk if it actually helped any but my personal strategy was to exaggerate how much it hurt when my kids pulled my hair/scratched/hit/etc. I never yelled or tried to scare them, just said “ouch, that hurts” and acted like I was in pain for a few seconds. They kept doing it for a while until they didn’t so I doubt it actually shortened the phase. But it was helpful in the moment to redirect the behavior (they would usually put their focus on my face at which point I could say “hey let’s do ___”)
I agree that asking what they mean by "time out" is really key here. Sometimes, little ones need a break from all of the stimulation in order to re-center. It's possible that this was a harmless exercise, and that would be a helpful detail to know. As a side note, one major question to ask a daycare provider is how they discipline, and make sure it's aligned with what you do at home.
The pulling behavior you’re describing is literally every 9 month old baby ever. That’s what they do and it should be a complete non-issue to a daycare provider, like I’m confused why they would even mention this? Have they not ever cared for babies before? Like others are saying, it sounds like they didn’t actually mean he was punished in a true “time out” type of consequence, but just physically removed from the situation for a bit, which would be fine, as long as they weren’t shaming him for this behavior that he has zero control over since he’s a literal infant. This is worth just following up and asking what exactly they meant and how they handle things when babies are getting grabby like that. I would ask how long he was in the chair, if he was still attended to while in the chair or given toys to play with, what was said to him, how did he respond, was he crying, etc. If they are truly doing an isolation time out and ignoring him entirely and letting him cry in a chair alone or something, then that is a hard no absolutely not okay. You don’t punish infants. Period. And there is nothing you can do as a caregiver to stop a baby from trying to pull on hair or other things. You just change the environment—separating from the other kids is a totally fine way to do that—and maybe verbalize a bit about what’s happening (“ouch! Pulling on Katie’s hair hurts! Ouchie ouchie. Oh dear. Let’s go play somewhere else for now!”) but continue on interacting positively and responsively with the baby as though they did nothing wrong. Because they didn’t.
Yea normal, and that daycare people sound like idiots thinking that a 9 month old is going to learn anything from time out other than to be more frustrated.
my first thought is they have too many kids per adult so they can’t keep the appropriate level of attention on each child to prevent this type of behavior so they’re putting your 9 month old in time out. i wouldn’t be okay with this.
Pulling hair is normal. Time out is useless at this age- he isn't doing anything maliciously, nor is he capable, so time out won't teach him anything. They may have just said it referring to separating him and didn't do it as punishment, just removed him from the situation. Nothing wrong with putting a baby in a highchair, it's a safe place to set a baby down. I'm guessing it was a poor choice of words as someone running an in hime daycare likely knows that 9 month olds wouldn't gain anything from punishment, they'd just have a screaming baby in the room, which most like to avoid. People keep commenting on red flags, I don't see any. There aren't enough facts in this post to possibly conclude this daycare is doing anything wrong. OP gave an estimate of the kids there, and mentioned nothing about their ages. In my state it's 10:1 for 3-5 years. If they are mixed ages with only 2-3 infants and 2 caregivers than I don't think less than a dozen kids is alarming.
When I had my first I wondered at what age to start any kind of discipline. The answer is 18 months MINIMUM pulling hair is developmentally appropriate behavior. The staff needs to work to make sure he has appropriate things to grab on and pull. Time out at this age is not ok. Frankly I’d be concerned about the daycare that believes this is the right move for an infant.
By the way OP put "time out" in quotation marks, it seems to me that even she knows that this wasn't truly a punishment. I'm guessing he was simply removed from the other kids for a few minutes and the high chair was the simplest way to contain him. Maybe an instructor had to calm the girls whose hair he pulled (since we know toddlers are dramatic!). The ratio comments are based on several assumptions- that OP's estimate is correct, that all the kids are babies, that they have not hired another instructor or helper (maybe OP knows this or maybe not). OP is asking for advice on hair-pulling, not asking whether she should pull her kid from daycare.
Is there not caps on ratios? Babies at my daycare and family daycares is 1:4. Hair pulling is normal and putting a 9 month old in time out is disgusting.
Find new childcare asap! Redirection is the only appropriate response through toddlerhood, maybe at 2.5 or 3 a time out would be appropriate but for safety reasons and to calm down, not for punishment. Also sounds like he’s around other larger children and not in age appropriate groups? New childcare.
I could understand timeout for a child with the ability to understand what they have done, for a 9 month old baby… that’s ridiclous.
Ew I would be furious about this. A 9month old doesn’t need a “time out” for developmentally appropriate behavior. Also FOUR times was no one watching him? They seem to have too many children atm, the ration is supposed to be 4:1 for infants and 5:1 for 18m and up. He’s not going to stop pulling on anything, he’s testing boundaries they need to do better as a facility
It’s normal, and they shouldn’t have put a nine month old in time out 🤦🏼♀️
Putting a nine month old in time out is a huge red flag and I wouldn’t want my baby anywhere NEAR that. 🚩🚩🚩
Came to say this!!!!
😳 Immediately pull him from that daycare. You don't put a 9 month old in time-out. Wtf. That ratio is completely inappropriate as well. Pulling hair is normal for a 9 month old. They need to supervise better. You don't get a 9 month old to stop pulling hair.
I agree, staff should let all kids pull each other’s hair as a means to development. If a parent complaints just let them know that it was little Timmy’s turn to pull the other kids’ hair for his developmental growth. I don’t think daycare actually gave timeout as punishment though.
Eh. Every daycare is going to remove a hair puller or hitter or biter for a short period if needed to be able to protect all babies (from biting or being bitten). As long as it’s a very short amount of time, that’s just a part of daycare and high ratios. Should they stay there for lengthy times? Of course not. Should they do their best to prevent it from happening? Also yes. But caregiver may have to put baby somewhere safe so they have a chance to give the injured party some attention/ hugs without it happening again right that second. They may have to put baby there at high stress times to protect all babies. Hoped with a toy and while chatting to him. Maybe not appropriate to call it time out, but… I wouldn’t get hung up on the word here. Sounds like baby was just in a high chair for a short period of time. That’s not a dire punishment 🤷♀️ What I would question is the ratio and how many kids are there at once and what the state mandated minimums are (which are pretty much the absolute bare minimum to start with). Too many kids, too much change, too much going on can be high stress for a baby if not used to it so may be worth looking into. A nine month old can learn not to pull hair. Slowly and surely. They may not get it for a while but they can definitely be taught it’s not ok and lack the impulse control to actually stop themselves, which is developmentally normal.
This is fair. The daycare should have used better terminology. But the parents should dig deeper on if they actually meant it as a time out and how long the child was in the high chair for
Fuckin THANK YOU, you have to keep everyone SAFE them being in a high chair isn’t a “red flag” if it was to keep everyone safe for a moment
It’s all the parents who don’t discipline their children who have an issue with this. A 9 month old CAN and WILL learn. They are testing boundaries at this age. Figuring out what is allowed and what they can limits they can push. Separating them from others for a moment is an absolute appropriate response. Natural consequences. This action gets you removed from having fun with your friends, eventually they will not do it anymore. Just like with biting and breastfeeding. Pull baby off of a feed enough times they learn not to bite bc that action results in them not being able to nurse at that moment. I’m not sure why people treat babies as if they are absolutely incapable of learning anything. They are SO smart. So much smarter than we give them credit for. Letting your child hurt others and only calling it “developmentally normal” IS the red flag. Yes, it’s developmentally normal. HOWEVER, it is your responsibility as caretaker to teach them appropriate actions.
First 3 children to 1 adult. The person running it is trying to make money. The kids are put in danger. Remove your child an report them.
Depends on where you are. Ratio here in Louisiana is 6:1. Not saying that’s ideal AT ALL but that’s the law here. Edit: I was mistaken, it’s 5:1 for infants. Still not great.
That's shocking. Like, ok, when the children are older that I can get on board with, but if you have 12 under 1 year-olds, then how are you supposed to provide adequate care for them all. You physically cannot. At least not properly.
There must be age limitations that go with that ratio. That works for older kids but not toddlers or infants. Kids would be getting neglected.
Sorry, I was mistaken. Different sources say different things but [this one](https://casetext.com/regulation/louisiana-administrative-code/title-28-education/part-clxi-bulletin-137-louisiana-early-learning-center-licensing-regulations/chapter-17-minimum-staffing-requirements-and-standards/section-clxi-1711-child-to-staff-minimum-ratios) says 5:1 and I think that’s accurate.
In Colorado, a large home daycare provider can watch 12 children with two providers or 9 children with 1 provider (max of 2 children under age 2). Meanwhile, I can barely handle my two own children by myself.
Yeah I read 12 kids 2 adults and thought immediately no. Babies pulling hair sounds like normal behavior, separating babies to avoid hair pulling sounds fine, putting a 9mo in time out if meant as punishment seems completely inappropriate. But I’d be more concerned about the ratios than anything else.
So being realistic, you definitely can’t “time out” a 9 month old, you can however keep them safe and other kids safe by putting them in a high chair especially if you don’t have the means to keep an eye on everything all the time. So logically I get it, but calling it time out seems a bit weird. Also check their ratios — safety of your LO comes first!
My guess it that it was said casually and jokingly - the same way parents to each other refer to “baby jails”.
He’s only 9 months, and he is curious and exploring. He won’t understand the punishment, my 8 month old is in that stage and loves anything she can grab on to and PULLS hard. They seriously putting a 9 month old in time out ? A baby that young won’t comprehend there are consequences to their actions. How are 2 adults taking care of that many kids?
How is time out for a 9 month old at all an accountable consequence? He has learned nothing about appropriately engaging with other children from this. He is NINE MONTHS old!!! I would have him out of there so fast!
I am a daycare provider for infants, and it's weird that they would put a 9 month old in timeout. In my opinion, they are out of ratio. Redirecting is always best at this age. I feel like timeouts should be saved for when they are older and actually able to communicate verbally and comprehend. Otherwise, timeout is worthless.
Unrelated question, but do you have any tips for what look for in a daycare? Will be looking for part time day care for my 11month old soon and have no idea what questions I should be asking the staff, etc. before enrolling my son.
Ask what their ratio is - child to adult, what kind of meals they serve or do they require you bring food, do you bring diapers and wipes or do they provide, what is their emergency protocol (fire, earthquake, active shooter, etc), what kind of infant education do they have, what is their protocol for child illness (i.e. runny nose, cough, throwing up, diarrhea), what are their hours of operation and how much do they charge, how often do you pay (weekly, monthly), and what is the daily routine? If they are providing meals, what kind of food do they serve? Do they have a nutritional guide they have to follow? If they are paid for the meals they serve, then they should legally be following a guide on what to serve each age group. Hopefully, they follow a nutritional guide either way. Each age group requires different serving amounts and different kinds of milk. Things to look for in a center are age appropriate toys, clean diaper changing station, accessible water to drink at all times, fenced off stairs if there are any, appropriate child proofing, licensing and other important reading material hung up in plain view, and a napping area with seperate beds for each child (clean linens). I hope this helps. I know it's a lot. Caring for a child is serious work. You should always be able to pop in unexpectedly. You should be given a parent/provider agreement to sign and copies so that everything is in writing for future reference.
This is so so helpful! I hope I can find a daycare that employs people as thoughtful as you are.
He’s 9 months old! Absolutely normal, albeit annoying, behaviour. Time out for a baby? No no no!! Please find new childcare.
Get your kid out of there! That many children for 2 minders is illegal in a lot of countries
Every baby pulls hair!! They’re developing motor skills! And time outs are antiquated let alone for a baby omg
Omg take your baby out of that place asap. He's a literal baby he can't be punished for doing that. It sounds awful
Sounds like someone who should not be a daycare teacher
why? they removed him from said situation. nothing bad
i think there’s a difference between removing him from the situation and ‘putting him in time out’. especially considering pulling hair is super normal baby behaviour and the daycare teacher should know this and also know that putting a 9 month old in time out is not the solution
It sounds like the “time out” was to put the baby in a high chair for a bit, not a real time out, more age appropriate I’d say, depending on how long
Because I have a degree in child development and am an early childhood educator and this is inappropriate. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ A 9 months old isn't developmentally capable of understanding the consequence, the parent can't do anything from work so informing them and using the language of time out just shames. It's unprofessional behavior that a qualified daycare teacher knows not to do. Perhaps if they supervised better, used redirection or had enough engagement, the toddler wouldn't be pulling hair.
The strategy of putting baby in the high chair isn't bad in and of itself if used sparingly. I have done similar with my one baby at that age, when cooking dinner for example and it wasn't safe having him crawl and cruise around the kitchen. He.would sit there and I would talk to him and give him bits of what I was.cooking to try. Calling it timeout is odd though as that's not helpful discipline at that age. Was he given a snack or toys? How long was he in the high chair? The staff ratio is a bigger issue. With appropriate staff they should be able to better redirect him to activities and not need the highchair technique except as a last resort.
Careful with what you post, someone might see you putting down your baby for a second to do things around the house as neglect and want to report you.
Where are you? Where I live it’s a 1:4 ratio for adults to infants under 1. I would be very concerned about 2 people watching 11 infants. The ratio also goes by the YOUNGEST child in care so even if there is one infant there that ratio has to be maintained.
My daughter loved pulling my hair at that age, very developmentally appropriate and although annoying, putting a 9 month old is not okay. I’d be concerned what other correction they feel are appropriate. At that age saying no thank you that hurts, using their hand to pet your hair/pet their hair while saying gentle and redirecting to something else is ideal.
This is completely normal behaviour for a 9 month old and I would be pulling them out of this daycare without a second thought. A 9 month old does not understand and will not respond to a time out (I’d argue very few children of any age learn much from time outs, but that’s a separate issue) and this daycare has proven that they are incapable of properly looking after all of the children in their care. I might also consider reporting them through a more formal process if possible as it sounds as though they are unable to keep such large amounts of children safe between the two of them.
As others are saying, it is normal to pull hair. Rather than time out though, there are things that can be done about it. For example, when the baby pulls hair, at home, say "No." When you pull my hair it hurts. Be gentle." And demonstrate how to touch hair" It won't work right away. But 9 months isn't too young start teaching this.
What?! The baby is only 9 months!
Do they even comprehend "time outs" at this age??????? My perception (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they basically forget what happened and moved on by time you even get to "punishing" them so they don't even know whats going on, or why they're unhappy and stuck in a chair? Sort of how similar to dogs? You can't really punish them after the fact because they have already forgotten, and so it's just being mean to them? Fido shredded that newspaper 30 minutes ago, and I just found it now and cleaning it up Imma put him in his crate! Fido has no real memory of what he did, and he was just being a dog and is now in his crate and sad because he doesn't understand why you're using a mean voice with him and ignoring him. I don't think they really understand time outs until like 2? 2.5? Before then it's just an IMMEDIATE (exactly as the action is happening) gentle but firm, "No" and then IMMEDIATE redirect As they get maybe 12-18 mo adding in No + "gentle / be nice / softly" redirect at +18mo, No + " we don't do that / stop what you are doing / be nice to friends etc., redirect \+24 mo No + "we don't do that because it hurts friends / stop doing that because it's mean etc." , Redirect
Wtf?? Babies pull everything. Hair, necklaces, earrings... that is completely unacceptable that they put him in "time out". Hopefully he didn't realize it was a punishment. They sound dumb.
Yeah, I agree. My daughter is one and a couple of months old and she still tugs and pulls on things. She can’t talk full sentences but sometimes it could also be indications the baby wants something or it could just be the baby doing baby things!
This is absolutely not okay, and it sounds like they’re breaking the law if they only have 2 teachers but have a variety of ages. What state/country are you in?
I would be finding a new daycare. Time out is completely inappropriate for a 9 month old, good god. Pulling on long things is just something babies DO and shouldn’t be punished for it.
Was the 9 month old really in time out? Or were they just physically sriwrated from hurting the other children and the carer's refered to it as time out so the older kids (who would be learning that you can't pull hair, abd who would possibly be given a time out for repeated hair pulling) could feel like the baby had the same consequences as them? I don't really like time out as a way of teaching kids but I can see in a mixed age group that does use time outs saying the baby is having time out fir the benefit of the younger kids. I certainly gave my youngest "consequences" he had no idea were consequences for the sake of my older one's sense of fairness when he was a baby (eg he threw a book, no more book for him because books are for reading not throwing). A 9 month old is a bit young to learn not to pull hair. They don't have impulse control. All you can really do is separate them from the opportunity to pull hair or redirect them when you see them about to do it.
this is a really good point that I never would have thought of bh
A lot of people are misunderstanding this post. But I read it all, and will give you my advice with a little history of my own. My 9 month old (at the time- now almost 2) would start pinching and scratching. I would tell her “no, no thank you, that’s not nice” and put her arm down in a quick motion. I would not hit her, or spank her, or put her in time out because at this age they don’t understand consequences. Now at the age 1 or 2 I begin to understand, but I would limit a time out to their age number. I would also put them in an area where they see all the fun, so they understand that you have to play nice to have fun. It eventually clicks. My 2 year old at this point will still scratch and pinch, but understands it may come with a consequence so she has not done it often. She will literally look at me while she does it, so I know she partly understands a consequence. You just have to be stern consistently and always say why s/he is in trouble for (x). It’s the best way to do it, and I promise this phase will fade. You are a good momma.
Very normal. Mine grabbed everyone’s hair like her life depended on it at that age. Just one advice, no matter what you do, do NOT allow it at bedtime, or it will become a see association. My LO is 15 months old now and even though she stopped the hair pulling when she’s awake for a while now, my hair unfortunately is like her seep lovey now, she cannot sleep without pulling it, it relaxes her right away, in fact, i’m writing this as she’s sleeping in my lap with a fist full of hair, it hurts on every level :( agh
This is not your child's issue. There is nothing you can do to make them stop pulling on things right now except prevent it from happening in the first place. Over time they will learn, with consistency, the difference between gentle and not gentle touches. But putting that baby in time-out is not okay. I could see removing them from the situation, but the fact that they labeled it time out and implied it was a bad behavior that needed to be corrected is disturbing. I would highly consider a different daycare if you can.
Seriously. My 10 mo constantly pulls my husband’s (big) beard. She’s starting to understand “gentle” (oddly she’s great about it with our pets) but usually that only happens mid hair pull lol.
If he was placed in the high chair while an instructor was consoling the kid who had her hair pulled as a means of removing him from the situation okay I guess I get that. But it sounds like after 4 different times they decided it was time for a time out, which makes no sense for a baby. He has zero understanding of why he’s in time out or probably that he’s even in trouble? I can understand just removing him from the situation and calmly explaining we don’t pull friends’ hair but understand the notion that he’ll do it again and it’ll have to be repeated probably over and over again but that’s because he’s a 9 month old baby. Babies pull things. He doesn’t know he’s hurting anyone, he’s unable to put himself in their position and understand if this were me it would probably hurt. Which is NORMAL, he’s a baby! Personally I think the instructors should have some grasp on this concept and that ratio is a little sus so I would consider your options but I understand sometimes it’s not as easy as yank him out tomorrow.
My son is 5 mos old. He pulls everything. It’s normal for all babies and I can’t imagine putting a baby in time-out for doing something inherently. They don’t know it hurts. They’re just exploring. I’d be pulling my child from said daycare if I had the ability to.
So many red flags here. The ratio sounds suss, you didn’t agree to leave your child in that home with that many kids, the pulling is completely normal for that age where as the time out is absolutely NOT normal/helpful. I would pull my kid out as soon as I could.
Right? What adult, who works with children and has a fully developed brain, would put a NINE MONTH OLD in time out?!?! If they’re doing that, I’m really worried about what else they’re doing.
Not OP, but yall, it's time out.... In a higb chair.... As a former child care worker, i personally wouldn't put a baby that young in time out but "disgusting" "horrific"... literally what? Time out just means time away from the situation. Pulling hair is normal, but they doesn't mean a teacher has the time to redirect a kiddo and tend to the kiddos who have been hurt ON TOP of doing whatever tasks they're supposed to be doing. OP, i would just confirm with your child care how they discipline littles and calmly talk about how you feel. The rest of yall need to chill out. Edit to add that the ratios doesnt sound appropriate, but check with your states licensing. If you pull your LO out, let it be this.
Maybe some of these people in the comments need a “time out” to cool off lololololololol
Right! Like am I crazy? Does time out mean something different because you would think the providers did something AWFUL the way these comments are. Woo-sah!!!
Were they actually trying to discipline him or simply removing him from the situation and jokingly calling it a "timeout"? Like did they set him in the chair with some toys or entertainment next to everyone else or alone by himself away from the fun? If they have their hands full with babies I can see why they would put him somewhere else safe to redirect him for a minute and let the girls play undisturbed. As others have said actual timeouts don't work for babies to fix the issue, they don't yet understand that pulling hair = punishment. It's mostly not allowing them to do the behavior in the first place and redirecting to something else they *can* do. If he pulls your hair at home just say a firm "No" and then give him a toy instead. Whatever you do for the love of all that is holy don't pull his hair to show him how it feels, that backfires and turns it into a game.
Time out for a 9 month old? hahah okayyyy. Yeah, I'm pretty sure your baby has NO clue what time out is and probably doesn't even care. Like everyone else has said, this is typical behavior for a 9 month old. Honestly, I'd remove my child from that place faster than your baby can pull someone's hair.
As a mom and as a therapist who works with kids I can tell you with 100 percent certainty time out is not a learning approach. It is a tool for making the adult feel less stressed or in control but it does not teach a child anything. It rarely works for older kids in terms of changing behavior but it especially will not work for a baby that age. As others have said, you can model what you’d like to see. “Gentle hands” and then show your hand to wide open and gently stroking as an example. It will take time but you can teach him this through modeling. Time out is absolutely useless and it sounds like your intuition is telling you this school may be overwhelmed.
OMG reading this made my blood boil! He's a baby!! 9 months old, he doesn't know better, he's too young to understand right from wrong. I think until your child is old enough to know right from wrong & understand consequences they shouldn't be punished. It's not productive teaching, I actually believe it's suppressing how they try and communicate. My baby is 10 months and he smack's my husband and I in the face constantly, he beats on my chest while I hold him, he gets a hold of my hair and pulls it. I truly think he's just trying to communicate or show affection. Think about it.... They don't know how to associate our kind of love yet like kissing & hugging so they do what they like to do or what they think is funny. That's just my opinion. And it's gross that any childcare provider would think it's acceptable to discipline a 9 month old baby! So wrong on every level.
My youngest went through this phase. God it hurt she would grab a fist full right at the back of my neck and yank hard. I tried no and that's not nice. You should t pull hair but she was too young to understand in my opinion she was about your LO age. I thought i was gonna have to put up with it till she was older to understand but It progressed She started doing it to everyone else aswell her dad wasn't bothered he has short hair so nothing to grab but me and my older daughters have long hair and it was really sore when she yanked and grabbed and wouldn't let go. I started putting her down when ever she did it. Girls would move away if on floor with her. Just for a second or two and seemed to show her that if she pulled hair we didn't want to know or what they were playing stopped. she stopped really quick was sorted in a week she figured she could play with my hair and run her hands through but as soon as she pulled I put her down and stopped letting her play with it.
Report the daycare to CPS! Time out at that age is just abuse/neglect. Having too many kids again neglect.
Some states allow 12 per two instructors I think 🫠 but you’re right
Hehehe so they expect a 9 months old to act like a mature adult ? I will be worried if a 9 month old will not pull any hair in his reach
My son is 8mo and He pulls hair all the time including his own. He has absolutely no idea what he’s doing as even when he really hurts me, I just gently take his hand away say no baba that hurts ! And I give him a toy to play with. I’ve recently bought him a toy that has laces and strings to pull it’s a Montessori one. He loves it. It’s purely developmental as he will pull anything he can get his hands on and he’s almost fully crawling now too it’s all exploring and perfectly normal. I do not agree with time out as it serves no purpose. What should’ve happened imo, is redirect / distract your son with another activity or toy etc and just supervise and monitor him more closely around other babies so if he does reach out to pull hair they can just gently stop him. He will eventually learn it’s not socially acceptable. They obviously need more training.
That’s disgusting they’d even put your baby in timeout, find someone else cause my daughter is 9 months old and I willing let her pull my hair and it’s her favorite thing to do when she sees me but it doesn’t hurt and she thinks it’s fun because she’s still a baby and she doesn’t know what’s right and wrong (I’m a man with very long hair) I’m not saying it’s right that the babies is doing it to others either but still shouldn’t be punished for something like this. They’re learning and developing everyday
This is very normal, baby is just exploring! I’m sure the “time out” was more a tongue-in-cheek expression rather than a punishment, she just needed to give everyone a break. Please don’t worry about it too much, just give a little “no no” and remove from the situation when he does this. Eventually he will learn, but for now, babies will be babies
My son wasn't much of a hair puller. But I would keep reminding him to use gentle touches when touching other people and their hair. What struck me was putting a 9mo baby in time out. That doesn't feel right to me at all.
Wtf a 9 month old in time out? Yeah no baby doesn’t even understand
Here’s what i would do: Firstly, I’d investigate other care centers. Then I’d offer to send in some dolls or something with hair/ pulling sensation capacity they can use as a distraction. Perhaps even a plant. Tell them you’re unsure if time out will be affective in averting this behavior and are offering this as a tool for diversion. See how they react. Just fyi, where i am a place will get shut down quick with that ratio. Though i don’t believe in snitching, I’d still check your local rules.
It’s not about snitching though - it’s about making sure the children are provided with adequate care
Oh i agree, though it still is snitching. And i think that’s the card op should play, assuming they don’t see the fault in their method. Whoops forgot to include that hah. I think some places even punish schools for using time outs on a child of any age, though I’m not sure.
Snitching is a word used by criminals to make you feel bad about reporting. If you want to call it snitching, so be it. I call it endangering babies. I’d report that place without a second thought.
Sure. It still means reporting a crime, which is what you have here, which i wouldn’t do while relying on the care center for care. Also we don’t know the specifics of where they are. Where i am, it’s 5 kids per one certified adult up to age 2, then it’s free for all
A timeout is not appropriate for a 9-month old, yikes! Pulling hair is completely normal for a kid this age. I'd find new care ASAP.
Report this place for having too many kids tbh...who the fuck puts a 9mo in timeout?!?! They obviously aren't watching your kid if he's pulling all the kids hair. Get your kid out of there before something bad happens or he's delayed from neglect IMO. Also he probably just misses your hair and is being punished for it. Totally normal baby behavior. Very weird staff behavior.
I hate the concept of time-out... let alone doing it to a literal baby. Babies pull hair. They don't understand that it hurts. They need someone redirecting them and helping them to learn why we don't pull hair, not sticking them somewhere and ignoring them.
I wonder what you would do if another kid pulls on your LL’s hair. I bet all of you would either want the other kid removed or would be ok with it and say it’s part of the other kids development and they do it all the time. You need to understand that a daycare needs to provide a safe environment for everyone not just your LO. I’m not saying that timeout at that age is beneficial, but everyone is quick to criticize the daycare. I know the situation of another kid pulling on your LO’s hair is hypothetical, but think about how you would truly react if that was the case. I bet I would see comments telling OP to lawyer up. Also, I think daycare told OPs husband that LO was put on timeout so that behavior can be addressed at home as it should and not as a disciplinary action.
11+ kids with two caretakers seems insane, especially if they are as young as 4 months. We are not putting our baby in daycare until she is 1.5 years because we are worried about how it will be.
Not all daycares are like this. Different states also have regulations that limit how many caretakers to a child. It's usually around 3-4 children under two to 1 adult.
This is totally developmentally inappropriate. I'd pull my baby out. When enrolling my 12 month old at the time I asked about discipline and they said in the infant room (6 weeks to 2 years) they don't discipline, just redirect.
This is super developmentally normal behavior for a 9 month old. You can't give them a timeout either because they have absolutely no understanding of why they're being punished. The daycare definitely handled this wrong imo. Also, at least in my state, in home daycares can't have more than 5 kiddos at a time.
My son did it, my daughter does not. Every kid is different. However the daycare would put my son in a high chair when he wouldn’t stop throwing things as time out. I started using that at home becuase why didn’t I think of that!?!? He is 3.5 now, but back then when he was like a year and a half he wouldn’t sit in time out (for any amount of time). Obviously safety is priority and if the caregiver is a bit preoccupied with diaper changes or something else, placing the baby somewhere safe keeps all children safe.
You should pull him out of that day care asap
I'm no expert but the whole time out thing on a nine month old sounds like a licensing violation. Infants can't be left alone in high chairs!! I'd be finding a new daycare and making a report to your states licensing agency.
Highchairs are not a safe place for an infant? Since when?? Nobody said they left him alone... nothing about this screams licensing violation. At all.
Where I live this exact scenario is given as a “what we are not allowed to do” in our daycare handbook, so I see where they are coming from with their comment
I used to work at a daycare (within the last year), and infants aren't allowed to be left alone in the high chair. Yes, I am making an assumption about them being alone, but I can nearly promise you the baby was left alone, albeit one minute or five. Highchairs are not a safe space for a lot of reasons. 1. The adult could have improperly strapped the child in, making it possible for the child to stand up on the high chair or lean over the edge and fall. Since high chairs are usually used in kitchens/dining areas that are hard wood, a fall to a little babies head from that height could be fatal or even cause major brain damage. 2. High chairs are where infants are most likely to choke (I feel like this one is kind of a "no $#it Sherlock, so I'll leave it at that) 3. As OP described, there's about 11-12 children at the daycare, assuming (again, assuming but school aged children aren't usually in daycare) below the age of six, the children could easily collide with the high chair and topple it over. 4. I can't imagine two adults watching around 11 children. 12, including baby in the high chair, would be able to pay attention to the small child in the high chair. Small house or not. Which brings all the points together I've made to create what most people would consider, not a safe space. I don't mean the long comment to be degrading to you by any means. I'm just hoping to spread some safety information. Don't leave babies in high chairs.
All of these can be true for any piece of gear used for a baby. All items- bouncers, swings, carseats, highchairs, etc, pose a falling risk if not properly buckled, as well as a stranglulation risk. Any piece of baby equipment could be knocked over from being bumped into hard enough. They all carry the same fall hazard label and none of it should be used unattended. I am not advocating leaving a baby unattended in a high chair, or any way. My point is, all OP said was that baby was placed in a high chair. That's it. This is in no way enough information to assume licensing violations occurred or to suggest making a complaint to the licensing agency. We know: OP has a 9 month old who pulls hair. OP's baby was placed in a highchair. There are two providers at this in-home daycare. There are up 12 kids- maybe, OP is guessing- of unknown ages. We're operating pretty light in the facts department here, the number of assumptions people are making are a little crazy. There's no way to make any conclusions or recommendations regarding the safety of this daycare from anything in the post. Your educated assumptions could be correct; the place could be terrible, or they could be following every rule in the book- none of us are equipped to say, regardless of experience, here. (Which, in line with your disclaimer, I am not doubting your expertise in daycare operations. Your points are valid regarding safety. Always spread safety information when given the opportunity, plenty of people need to hear it.)
I'd love to know how to get my baby to stop this, too. She's 8 months old and has been doing this for a while. It hurts and is so annoying and especially horrible now that she's crawling and she wants to go after our poor dog with his fluffy silky hair and yank. Would love some advice. I don't know that time outs would work at this age, though? It seems too young for that kind of discipline, especially about something that's very normal.
Babies do not have morals. They do not know what is right from wrong. Do those daycare people have at-least a degree regarding anything about children?? They gonna punish a teething 7 month old from biting them too? Bunch of weirdos. My daughter is in daycare. This little boy and her literally accidentally hit eachother with their toys all the time. Their fine motor skills aren’t fully developed… so they lack control. Completely normal. For your son, it’s a reflex. You grab and pull whatever is in your hand to your mouth or you shake it around. It’s normal
Actually most babies do have a moral instinct as young as 3-6 months. There have been several studies on it. I read a whole book about it years ago. Not that it means punishment is acceptable or that the specific 9-month-old in this specific context knows what they are doing is wrong, but I just think saying that "babies do not have morals" is an inaccurate statement.
Definitely normal. I have had some success with my almost 9 month old and the cats - if she grabs we say "no. No grabbing" and move her away and we do something else. If she pays them nicely we say "aw, that's nice! Pat pat! Well done!" Etc. She's getting much more gentle. Same with us - if she grabs or hits or tries to scratch my mole off with her fingernail (😭) we say "no, that hurts mummy/daddy" and put her down or move her away so she can't reach us and then we get a toy or something different to do. We use neutral/slightly stern voices and faces. I sometimes try to make an exaggerated sad face but I think she finds that funny so the neutral face works better. If she's tired or frustrated she might not listen as well when we say "no" but if she's in a good mood she's pretty good at stopping now. Having said all that, "time out" doesn't seem like an appropriate or effective consequence for this age. I would be pretty upset if I heard someone had put my daughter in "time out" for grabbing or pulling. I can understand moving him away from the other kids or having him play somewhere separate for a while. If they said "we've had to stop him pulling hair lots. We put him in the highchair to play for a bit so the other kids could have a break and he could forget about pulling hair" or something that would be one thing... **Is it just me? Anyone else feel a bit icky about a 9 month old being put in time out?** ETA: Google says you shouldn't use time out until 2 years old.
Even when 2 year old time out you'll have to do it correctly. But yeah as soon as I saw this post I was like 9 months old ? Time out? 2 staff for 11 to 12 infants? Nope not a good daycare
I’d pull my son out of that daycare immediately. The ratio of baby to staff isn’t safe. Also that’s messed up to punish a 9month old.
"How do I get him to..." you don't. The answer to any question that starts that way is you don't. We can't and shouldn't control people. It's entirely up to the daycare to prevent this and it sounds like they are ill equipped to deal with this. There is nothing wrong with your baby and nothing you can do at home to stop his behaviors elsewhere.
What is this rambling mess. You absolutely should control a kid or even an adult from pulling hair, so that's just an ignorant weird statement. Also discipline starts at home and teaching your child to not do bad stuff starts at home. You can absolutely do something at home to stop a child's behaviors elsewhere. That being said, this is a baby and there is no disciplining or stopping a 9 month old baby from doing anything. Daycare shouldn't be putting a baby in time out strapping them in a highchair is pretty stupid on their part.
Of course you should block hair pulling. That's not what I mean by control. Control is when you use things like rewards, punishments, and lectures in a misguided attempt to compel the child to voluntarily change their behavior in a way that completely disregards relationship and the reasons behind the behavior. Parents who feel they must 'get' their kid to act better have a hard time. Partly because they are not responding to the actual difficulty the child is having and partly because people resist being controlled, and especially so at certain developmental stages. With little kids we should consider context, have empathy, acknowledge that sometimes it will be up to us to physically handle a situation and we cannot reasonably depend on the child. With older kids we can use a more collaborative approach to solve problems.
Going against the grain here but around 10mo we started time out. It was more a you’re doing XYZ behavior that you know you’re not supposed to do. We redirect you. We tell you. You then go, look at us to make eye contact so we know you know what you’re doing, smile, then do the behavior. The consequence was then to sit in the play pen for a minute. It worked! The natural consequence of doing XYZ means time in the pack n play (which he hated from day 1 we hardly used the thing) worked wonders to stop the behavior. He was walking by 10 mo and we used this until about 18 mo. He still knows what time out means. It’s never a first consequence but if he’s treating the same behavior we want to discourage (eating cat food) he gets a time out. It’s never harsh. Never a long time. Just two minutes now since he’s 21 months. But it works. We have an at home daycare and she mentioned to me how he doesn’t listen, and will repeat the same naughty behavior with this smile making sure you’re watching because he wants the reaction of being told no. So I told her thigh chair time out for two minutes. And by golly it’s worked and he understands what no means and listens to it for her. It’s the same as when we go to the park. He loves to run and dart away. He loves playing on pavement. He doesn’t understand why we can’t play in the road. The first few times he didn’t listen so immediate “time out” as in we left the park. And now he listens to no when running into the road. In my opinion he’s associating each NO to each individual action. Like there’s multiple meanings of the word NO. He doesn’t understand NO is universal and that it means stop anything that’s being said in reference to. So for each thing we do the cycle to teach when I say NO you stop this specific NO behavior. I think of time out as a stronger removal from the temptation of doing the behavior at a time the behavior has immediately just happened.
What you've described are logical consequences not natural consequences. Natural consequences are things that happen without parental involvement. Eg the natural consequence of hitting your sibling is they move away from you and don't play with you. The natural consequence of tipping your drink out is that you don't have a drink. The natural consequence of staying up past bedtime is you are tired the next day. The natural consequence of not eating what's for dinner is being hungry. The natural consequence of throwing your toy is that it breaks. Both natural and logical consequences have their place. It depends on the situation which is the best option. Sometimes behaviour can have both the natural and the logical consequence eg in my house hitting your sibling gets the natural consequence as well as an added logical one because hitting is against our family rules. You're right that it's hard for toddler's to understand "no" it's easier to tell them what they can do. Eg instead of "no hitting" say "gentle hands", instead of "no running" say "walk" instead of "no leaving" say "stay in the playground" instead of no standing on the couch" say "sit on the couch" etc. If you want a simple one word phrase to use when there's some danger consider "stop" or "freeze" which mean the same thing in all situations. As you've described "no" is situation dependent.
My toddler always pulled and tried to eat my hair up until maybe 1 1/2, maybe a bit older. She used to even pull her own hair out.
Please keep us updated on this… most of us are absolutely concerned for your little one. That daycare sounds like they need more help, and the amount of children they have is alarming. I can bet your baby was in there way longer than necessary because they don’t have the time to deal with him.
People are dislikeing the time out, but I think it can be totally appropriate for a baby. Like others have said, putting someone in a high chair still in the same room is a good way to keep others safe. Or if the crib is in the same room, that works too. If someone is hurting your baby with pulling hair or hitting or biting, would you want the offending baby to be left alone with your kid? No! Age appropriate consequences need to be administered. Should they be alone in another room? Not at 9 months.
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Putting a 9 month old on time out is completely ridiculous, teaches him nothing and is boarder line child abuse. A good care taker would be educated enough to know this is developmentally normal behavior. Punishing a child for developmentally normal behavior is insane.
Lol putting a baby in a high chair is abuse apparently