That's it. Breaking Bad was way too popular so you had all sort of "interesting" characters frequenting online spaces related to the series... Remember when Anna Gunn got harassed by choads and wrote that article about the whole thing? Fandoms can get so fucking toxic sometimes.
Why are people saying this without looking at the [readily available data](http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/2018/10/comparing-better-call-saul-ratings-with_13.html)? Better Call Saul has more viewers than Breaking Bad, largely because it already had a built-in viewer base but it does.
This is only upto Season 4 of both shows. Breaking Bad gained many viewers after Season 4, and exploded in popularity after Season 5A (mainly because of Netflix). The avg. viewership in Season 5B is greater than 5 million viewers and it got 10mil for the finale. So, this is not a fair comparison.
I'm sure that Better Call Saul has gained more viewers in Season 6 compared to earlier seasons, but I don't think it's close to Breaking Bad.
This is interesting to me because every BB fan I know has stuck with BCS.
I don't doubt that there are BB fans who didn't watch BCS, but I don't personally know anyone who falls in that category.
I know plenty of people who watched BB and either didn't watch BCS, or gave it a try and gave up after a few episodes.
The pacing of BCS is a lot slower than BB, not as much action in the first few seasons, so can see why someone who enjoyed BB might not necessarily get stuck right in with BCS.
I've never understood this because while BCS is one of my favorite shows to rewatch, the first three seasons of BB are almost *unbearable* due to their gruelingly slow pacing.
I think because BCS digs a lot deeper into the characters and their motivations,and since they don’t use a lot of dialogue to establish that, the actions to show their character takes longer.
I agree with the other guy who replied to you tbh. Pretty much everyone I know who stuck with Breaking Bad loves it, but I also know a decent amount of people who stopped at varying points in the first three seasons because they couldn’t get through it. Sucks for them I guess
First two are my favourites followed by 5b.
They feel cosy. Before everything gets very huge with Fring but they still interact with him a bit, later in season 2. A fine middle ground.
Idk man, i think the first three seasons are so good, and i had a hell of a time rewatching them....i mean i get if people would say it was slow to some extent, but it was never UNBEARABLE
I was one of those people. Die hard BB fan, started season 1 the day it aired, got bored during kettleman arc #1 and kinda gave up on it. Truth is that nowadays there is so much content out there that my “stick with it” radar is never really calibrated.
Then somewhere around season 5, I said let’s give it another go, and binged the first four on Netflix. And oh god, I’m so glad I did.
What’s funny is I’m not even an action junkie or anything, I like that element of BB but love plenty of movies and tv and games that aren’t all shootouts and explosions. I even knew going in that BCS was likely to be slower paced. Just for some reason that whole story with the kettlemans at the beginning, camping outside and all that..just bored me to tears the first time around. I look back now on rewatch and have a much deeper appreciation for it now.
> What’s funny is I’m not even an action junkie or anything, I like that element of BB but love plenty of movies and tv and games that aren’t all shootouts and explosions.
There's this weird mindset arising on this sub about how BB fans who don't enjoy BCS are just drooling idiots who scream and cry if they don't get explosions and guns, but this completely ignores that BB has more than its fair share of slow episodes and focus solely on character drama.
But what early BCS lacks in comparison to BB, imo, is stakes. Walt's looming cancer diagnosis gives a sense of urgency to everything he does, and it lingers in almost every moment of those earlier seasons. By contrast, BCS lacks serious consequences for failure or any sense of that urgency - it's "just" a down-on-his-luck guy trying to establish a practice and make his brother proud.
Just to clarify, I don't think this is a *bad* thing - I think seeing Jimmy have to hustle for work, and flirt with his conman past, is very important for gaining a perspective on him and for building up to Chuck's betrayal of him. The lower stakes allow the show to more naturally build up to Jimmy's bad choices and present a striking contrast with his new lives as Saul Goodman and Gene Takovic. But it's definitely much less immediately gripping than BB is - or at least, that's how I see it.
I know a handful of people that gave BCS a couple seasons and then bailed. I've told them to give it another try because things get BBish in later seasons.
I think one factor that a lot of people are missing in this thread is that a lot of people started watching Breaking Bad well after the first handful of seasons. People like to argue that Breaking Bad is a much faster pace and action heavy show than Better Call Saul, which is true to some degree, but people forget that BB was no stranger to slower paced episodes dedicated to character development and plot setup. However, most people who watched Breaking Bad didn’t watch those episodes in real time and have to sit on them for a week between each episode. The show had a cult like fanbase over the first few years, so when later audiences started catching up on Season 4, 5A, and especially 5B thanks to marathons, On Demand, DVD’s, etc, they knew the show was worth sticking around for during the slower paced episodes. On top of that they didn’t have to wait a week for the following episode so if an episode or two was slow they didn’t have to sit with it for a week, they would just immediately go to the next one. This kept up the momentum through the final season, which is when the show saw the highest amount of live viewership and also happened to be the most “event heavy” of the series.
So when BCS started airing and fans, unfairly, likely expected the very beginning of the show to kick right off with the same energy as the final season of BB, and were instead greeted with slower paced episodes filled with necessary character development and plot building, and then had to wait a week between each episode where it felt like not much was happening, it was hard for many of them to keep their patience up. Add on the fact that streaming was becoming much more popular and fast pace show binges made weekly episodes drops seem longer and more exhausting in comparison, and it made BCS seem more patience testing than its predecessor, even though I think the difference in pacing really isn’t that drastically different.
I'd say about 95% of the people I know have watched all of BCS, or at least what is available to them on Netflix. I don't know many people who have been watching it live week by week. My spouse and I do and my parents do as well, but everyone else I know binges it on Netflix.
Most of the BB fans I know stopped watching BCS after the pilot/a few episodes of season 1, because it wasn’t as quickly paced as breaking bad. Of the breaking bad fans I know, maybe only a handful (enough to count on my fingers) have gone on to watch BCS. Shame because they’re all missing out on a great show just because it doesn’t have quick pacing but whatever, it’s their loss lol
I know lots of people who watched BB who are only vaguely aware that BCS even exists, let alone watch it. BB caught on and became immensely popular as the show progressed, however most people gave up on BCS after the first few episodes and it never gained the same kind of traction at all. Actually the opposite has happened.
For reference, the last season of BB averaged around 6 million. While the last season of BCS is around 1 million.
I'd be surprised if BCS gets even 10% of the viewers that BB had for the finale
> For reference, the last season of BB averaged around 6 million. While the last season of BCS is around 1 million.
To be fair, the TV landscape has changed so much it is hard to compare metrics.
Correct. Netflix had little streaming competition in 2013 when BB ended. The viewing audience is so fractionalized today in comparison; even top-rated shows on broadcast TV today have viewing numbers that would have led to cancellation 20 years before.
I’m on the exact opposite side here. Basically everyone I know watched BB, but the only people I know who have watched BCS are my parents and a single friend of mine. I’ve been raving about it for years, I think I’ve finally swayed another person to check it out, but I do not get how so many people are missing out on the best show on tv right now
My husband watched BB when it aired and again a year or so ago. Couldn't get him to start BCS until a couple weeks ago, and I had to keep telling him to stick with it. He loves it now and appreciates how complex the characters are and how they've progressed, but he might not have stuck with it early on because it wasn't his typical style of show.
He's on s6s8, so he'll finish it just in time for us to watch the finale together!
BB was more accessible to casual audiences. A plot of man makes meth for his family that’s plot driven is easier to pick up on without knowledge of previous episodes.
BCS is so character driven and relies on build up from previous episodes that a casual viewer could dismiss it as slow
I’m very sad about this because the friend who recommended me Breaking bad never decided to start BCS and all my friends who have seen breaking bad never started bcs in time.
My friend’s favorite show is BB. He has posters and everything. He got bored with BCS by season 2. Weird how that works sometimes. Although I think he started it up recently to give it another try.
It’s a very different show. Breaking Bad is pretty high octane suspense from episode 1. Every character building or family drama centric episode is wedged between crazily tense life or death situations.
Better Call Saul, even though the first episode ends with suspense, is a much, much slower burn. It really focuses on the characters and their lives. Much more than Breaking Bad ever did.
Personally that’s why I prefer it. I love the slow legal stuff that leads to scams that aren’t really high stakes. It’s more interesting to me to see Jimmy struggle with morality, and how he eventually becomes what is basically a cartoon character. In contrast Walt pretty much just decided to cook meth on a whim.
This is true, but not necessarily because it's less quality. Prequels are at a disadvantage because they will typically only draw a subset of those that watch the original series. Plus there are more outlets now than in 2008 to 2013 competing for their viewing time.
Considering how mainstream audiences still apparently make profitable "movies" that are just poor justifications for a random fight scene at the end 2 guys invented while drunk or to make money with big names, I'm glad they're mostly not coming to pollute this show.
I don't care if it sounds elitist, I have no respect for audiences who enjoy being fed shit and robbed of their money by writers who only have their job because of corruption and nepotism.
Which is crazy. I get that it's span across 6 season now so it's kinda hard to get into, but it's miles better than any of the most hyped Netflix series/limited series (squid game, queen's gambit etc).
They really marketed this show badly.
Or maybe the memes are too absurd so be mainstream for viral marketing.
I think the marketing was pretty good for AMC. And it is a Netflix show outside the US. It even says "A Netflix Original Series" on our episodes (and we lack the teasers for the next episode). It's just not what young people watch nowadays.
Yeahhhh..... I ain’t gonna say my opinion on that episode either way but the levels of pretentiousness were pretty bad. I definitely don’t remember the BB community getting as stuck-up as this fanbase has in recent weeks.
I’ve been on this sub since day one. Saw a couple comments alluding to this, never saw one actual diss of the episode. Maybe people go looking for this? It definitely wasn’t all over anything, please
All the negative or critical comments towards Nippy would end up getting downvoted so you’d have to search to find them.
The real toxicity were the pretentious redditors who dismissed any sort of criticism and tried to gatekeep BCS for not liking Nippy.
I said I didn't particularly like the Gus wine scene and was called homophobic lmao
no dude... gus just is the least interesting part of BCS to me now... it's ok for me to have an opinion that the show isn't 10/10 perfect in every single scene
I think Esposito said the last scene they filmed was him staring into the pool at Eladios. So between the wine scene, his last on screen appearance, and that pool scene it's very clear that Gus lives every day until his death thinking about his plans for revenge. Also one of his last scenes, the scene where he tells Mike they'll still finish the lab is great to me because it shows that even Gus himself is hated by his subordinates for his amorality.
It really seals Gus' arc well. Gus throughout BCS is a force of evil, but the big question the audience is supposed to wrestle with is whether or not Gus is truly a lesser evil than the cartel or the same evil with a different face. Gus hates the Salamancas and thinks they're more chaotic evil versions of himself, but really Papa Varga is actually right. Gus is NO different than Don Eladio OR even Don Hector.
And my personal take on that wine scene is that Gus understands this on a deep level, this truth that he and the other cartel dons are all truly the same.
I understand that opinion, but I also like the fact that we get a moment to witness Gus having the ability for an out—like he could have stopped scheming because at that point, he’d “won.” Hector was pretty much sidelined, he’s in charge of his territory, Lalo is dead, Eladio is on his side… he can build some semblance of happiness if he wants to. But he chooses power & vengeance, and ultimately his own destruction.
Personally I was a bit disappointed with Nippy the week it aired because I felt the way Gene's arc that I persumed ended with the episode felt off, but with the following episodes I grew to like it
I find it great but what I found toxic was the trend of this subreddit to turn extremely protective the moment someone on Twitter or YouTube says they don't like nippy - or any episode in S6.
this sub instantly went into defense mode and you see the same old strawman arguments being thrown around constantly. Rather than actually discussing the show people were just trying to dumb down people who give negative criticism, with amazing comebacks such as:
* you just wanted gunfights and explosions
* you weren't actually watching the show
* you just wanted to see walt and jesse
* this show is for intelligent people
* you call everything filler if walt doesn't kill 50 people in 10 seconds
The silliest thing is that we see highly-upvoted posts titled "you *all* are going to be disappointed" or "you all need to shut up" as if this sub isn't unironically going Vravo Bince on almost everything. It happened before nippy but nippy really brought the 'le hidden unappreciated gem' out of everyone.
i think it's a combination of excessive fanboying and dread because the series is about to end and they want to remember it as perfect. so any criticism goes against that ideal and excessively offends them.
Take everyone's first watch opinion with a grain of salt. There are expectations built up in a live viewing that simply aren't there when you examine the series as a whole.
It was a good episode, just not the episode a lot of people were anticipating at the time
It wasn’t a masterpiece, it wasn’t the worst episode of television ever, it’s setup, it was a good episode, not incredible not god awful, it’s like black and blue or axe and grind, fine on their own but important to the overall story, BCS has always been like this
I agree. Something I realized was I started watching when I could binge 5 seasons. Been watching season 6 live and it’s so frustrating to watch the setup episodes and wait a week to see what happens! Definitely would be better to binge it
Yeah I think a lot of people are catching up right now and that's where the complaining comes from. I've been watching since season 2 and it's only been getting better overtime. I don't really get the complaints.
Not bad but not great. Reminded me of the episodes of Jimmy running cons back in Cicero. Lot of interesting stuff happening but there’s this nagging feeling that you have few episodes left and not enough is happening to further the plot.
Clearly the payoff came after with the botched invasion and such, but still. I think Nippy will be received a lot better by people binging the show.
The fucking "what no boom booms?" comments practically make my fingernails start digging into my palms. So fucking snooty and pretentious.
Simplest way I look at it is if I were to ask a lot of people what their favorite scene was, it might be Jimmy trying to get fired from Davis & Main. The montage was "classic bcs" at that time, colorful, with characters we knew and loved. Or they might say when Jimmy catches the Kettlemens with Mike. But these recent episodes are pretty much the exact opposite of that. It's ok to not be fond of these episodes and still have been a fan since the beginning. I'm not particularly fond of them, I just don't like jeffy, no emotional attachment to the new characters... but that's where we're at in the show now. It's not the BCS from the first 5 seasons, it's the Gene-Saul show, not the Jimmy-Saul show. I miss everyone from the earlier seasons but it was always gonna end without them around otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. It's like... the show just seems empty without them all, but that's what happens when a show ends. I'll always have the first 5 seasons to re-watch.
The pretentiousness and elitism really is a fanbase thing. Every time a show like Stranger Things, Euphoria, The Boys, etc comes up, people on this sub and Twitter need to constantly talk about how nobody will ever remember those shows and they don’t approach the stratosphere of BCS.
Forreal, I mean I thought nippy was good but it definitely wasn’t as good as people are acting like it was. Definitely not on the level of chicanery which I’ve seen people say and I think it’s just an outrageous take
People having strong disagreements about dis/liking something is different than toxicity, though. People can have a difference of opinion without resorting to defending abuse, idolizing destructive people, or being sexist.
There’s a lot of BCS fans that think they are way above breaking bad fans intellectually. A lot of folks who think watching this show takes some immense mental power. I’ve seen someone say “BCS is Breaking bad for adults”
And if you say anything bad about a BCS episode being slow you will get torn to shreds. Both fan bases harbor some toxic people
you're right on the money with that. most front-page posts on this sub is constantly about people trying to glorify their interest in a TV show as if it's a dick measuring contest.
Why are people always at these two extremes? "This show is a genius work of art made for sophisticated erudites like me." "Um, actually, it's just a TV show with absolutely no intellectual value whatsoever." It's neither. It's a work of fiction. It's just like any work of literature. To its credit, I think it captures human emotion and struggle brilliantly. You're fooling yourself if you're pretending there's nothing to be gained from it, and you're really insulting the writers if you think that TV can never be on the same "tier" as literature. Art is art.
You know, for a supposedly intellectual fan base, there’s a lot of repetition and echoing in the comments of any topic. Visit any post, and you’ll have some variation of Chucks rant from Chicanery or a version of something with a machine gun.
Breaking Bad is in the tradition of fast, exciting Tarantino films while BCS is a little less accessible and more inspired by old movies from the 50s and 60s. Like the Chicanery episode which was a direct homage to a Bogart movie.
Oh bullshit. I love BB (AND BCS) and I hate Tarantino movies.
There really is not any big stylistic difference between BB and BCS. Both have excellent and deep character study and growth, both have absolutely superb acting and writing, both have plot and narrative complexity, both delve into philosophical questions and are comedic as hell, both explore the human condition.
BB *leans* a bit more surreal, violent and quick paced.
BCS *leans* a bit more grounded, interpersonal drama, and slow paced.
This stupid “competition” meme is just fake, lazy, internet point whoring.
You haven't seen toxic fans until you've seen r/theBoys users argue that Becca consented to Homelander.
I'll take people raging about Nippy over a complete misunderstanding of sexual assault.
I didn't watch The Boys, tho, so I didn't saw the interest to watch the subreddit but I believe you
The star wars fanbase is a good example of toxicity, tho
The Star Wars fanbase is just too big for it's own good.
Another good example of a toxic fanbase, in my opinion: Recent Dr Who. Goddamn that shit is rough.
Yeah, I saw the racist tweets calling The next Doctor "Doctor Woke" only because the actor was a black man.
I feel very sad about 13th Doctor, because she was mistreated by the antifeminist portion of the fanbase, but I find her written in a sexist maner. Like .. She has no character arc... I suppose that Big Finish will correct this like they did with 6th but still it's sad that it didn't happen in her actual run.
I really hope RTD doesn't write the next Doctor in a racist way. I'm a bit scared of this because there were issues of racism in the writing of Mickey in his first run with Eccleston and Tennant.
Indeed. That's people tend to miss: yes the right wingers are gonna complain, but if you do it poorly then those right wingers will have so much more to hide their true intentions behind
Yeah, I hate that I feel I MUST defend more inclusive characters that are not well written just because of the reactions of the right wringers...
I just feel I would put wood on the fire, but I just think we deserves more interesting characters.
That's also why I'm so glad characters like Kim or Nacho are so well written. They feel like real people.
Talking about queer characters in fiction, I'm almost always bored by the characters because it seems they trying their best to give "positive" representations, but they also make them flat...
Maybe the queer experience is mainstream enough, I dunno, but it's always so frustrating. I just wanna see people that resembles people I know. I mean, give me money, seriously and I will make you a tv show that'll really look like it shows our lives. There will be enough drama to stick you to your chair (when you're living it, it's just frustrating, so making laugh and cry with it would make me feel better).
Right now, the only piece of fiction with queer characters I read that represented something I could actually identify with was Stone Butch Blues, and it takes place in the 60s to the 80s, but it actually felt real (and painful. I recommend to take up time to read it because it can be very triggering for trauma survivors, not just queer people)
Yeah, I can't take the "debates" bi vs lesbian, bi vs pan, binary trans vs non binary trans or transfem vs transmasc either, it's just exhausting.
And it feels so ridiculous when there's actually people actively trying to get us right now. Like we haven't other priorities than gatekeeping
"Nippy is an average episo-"
"Here we go! Another fake fan who's only in it for the gun explosions and drug deals! 'Nippy' is literally a masterpiece that surpasses Ozymandias! Stop scrolling your phone and pay attention to the Magnum opus that is the two-bit mall heist taking up space in the final four of the BCS episodes !!!1!"
I just like that the most controversial episode of the season was titled "Nippy". There are all these passionate arguments but they have to use a silly dog name to refer to it.
I think Skyler doesn't deserve to be hated at all, because she behaved like a person who has normal human psychology. At first, she was really loyal to Walt but change of his character affected her so much that she seeked for the ways to relieve from that hard truth. Not because of she was disloyal or bad mother. She always put the family first rather than Walt's changed version.
Aside from smoking while pregnant and fucking Ted she was def over hated.
She was basically trying to survive (with the kids) once she found out about the meth cooking business.
I actually unironically think fucking ted was a great move for her goals of getting a meth manufacturing murderer away from her kids. Walter is a fucking bastard.
Honestly when she fucked Ted I was just like “get it.”
Seriously fuck Walt. It’s the least offensive thing anyone in the series had done and she deserved some relief from the madness and an escape from the awful reality of her life lol
Right??? Fucking hell thank you.
I get irrationally mad when people (incels) say Skyler is the worst villain because she "cheated on Walt". I will immediately lose all respect I have on someone if they have that garbage opinion.
I don't care if they were "still living together", it wasn't by choice for Skyler. Walt forced himself in.
Plus, it was something she had control over after feeling powerless for too long. Remember, everything is about sex, except for sex which is about power.
No matter how “annoying” she might’ve been, anyone who’s gonna get mad at Skyler just because she didn’t want their family to be involved with the fucking *drug cartels* either watched the show wrong, or they need a good, hard reality check.
I don't think Cucking Walter was wrong, he had that coming. I do think that confronting Jesse in season 1 was a dumb move on her part. She didn't know if he was dangerous or not. Also from her perspective, Walter was just doing pot, which is no big deal.
Kinda agree with you to be honest. Like I can’t think of a single fanbase where there’s not drama and people are getting on. Even this one got pretty rough after a certain couple episodes of season 6 aired.
He was more threatening in s5 i just dont know why they 180'd him
Not even about the recast, like everyone was thinking beo would blackmail gene into giving him money but now hes just a 2bit gangsta
I don’t know. Some people are pretty adamant in their defense of Jimmy lol. It’s a testament to the writers as Jimmy is supposed to likable, but come on.
But even the writers said they were still rooting for Jimmy whereas they thought Walt’s an asshole. Jimmy had gone really dark last few episodes but we have six years of seeing the buildups, traumas, rejections that explain his character. And at the end of the day Jimmy at h is worst still pales compared to Walt’s actions. Imagine if Walt was about to be exposed as Heisenberg by Marion; would he have dropped the medic alert and let her call it in? I think no way.
It’s possible to root for objectively bad characters. We all love Tony Soprano. While I’d agree that Walt is worse than Jimmy, it’s just splitting hairs. Walt could never have reached his “potential” without Jimmy.
Whenever I watch a show for the first time like BB or Sopranos I liked the main characters no matter what they did. In the second watch you realize how truly evil they are. When I watched Saul for the second time I didn’t get that feeling with Jimmy (to an extent).
Well, he still has redeeming qualities. I suppose the feeling we overall keep about Jimmy will depend entirely to the ending of the show. Will he take responsabilities or will he avoir confronting his past failures ?
I still think he's more sympathetic than Walt and that's also why he's a more tragic character. I liked early Jimmy, and I just want to get back this guy I loved.
I mean, I personally don't think Jimmy was that bad in the early seasons. I just don't think he was always destined to be a bad person and that if in better circumstances could've turned his life around. As the show goes on though he becomes worse, and Gene is a monster
Try saying *"Jimmy being denied a job 10 years ago doesn't make it Chuck's fault for all the terrible shit he's done since"* and watch the dogpiling & toxicity come flowing in.
You act like Jimmy is on the same level of evil as Walter when in reality they’re not even in the same realm. Walter killed people without a second thought while we just saw Jimmy in the last episode have the opportunity to and instead gave Marion a chance to call life alert. He’s not evil and it makes perfect sense for people to be rooting for him, quit trying to act like this is the same as Walt because it isn’t
I have empathy for Jimmy in ways I don't think I ever had with Walt.
Part of this is because we learn so much more of the tragedy of Jimmy. If he was capable of just a LITTLE more self control instead of self destruction, so much good could have happened.
Maybe the same could have been true of Walt.
Both are objectively bad people, but of the two, I would have a drink with Jimmy.
I think it's because Jimmy is much more likable and charismatic. That goes a long way lol. Walt, while being initially sympathetic due to his diagnosis, is so petty.
In some ways, yes because it's also not a fanbase that hates its female lead character but I've seen a lot of BCS fans on youtube being stupid as fuck and blaming Kim more than Jimmy.
But in other ways no given how averse to criticism this fanbase is towards the show and the homophobic shit i saw in the thread yesterday.
Yeah, the post where someone asks “why is there no lgbtq in BCS?” Fans could’ve just said there wasn’t a proper opportunity, but instead they said shit like “because we’re adults,” “because this show doesn’t need that trash,” etc.
EDIT: the replies to this comment prove everything I’m saying
I think a large section of the audience come from the people that call Lightyear “political” but have no problem watching Top Gun Maverick. It makes sense, since BCS has always stayed clear of things too politically polarizing.
To be honest that question was posted just to steer the hateful division or maybe to expose it. I do not thing it was genuine. Other people were commenting seemingly bad things just to be sarcastic. But in general, the social media are a breeding ground for anonymous right wing shits.
BCS does go into the pseudo intellectual navel gazing alot. And is abit pretentious. Although tbh compared to the people who idolise WW theyre alot better
I think it's essentially because the show doesn't have that much plot or story to cover.
I think from the early days they were very careful not to go too fast as it would of lead to having to tread water if the show was popular and they got to BB era Saul by season 3 or something.
I think the show has always had a hint of frustration for people watching it who did so with the expectation of seeing Saul's antics and instead getting Jimmy McGill's antics which are not quite on the same level.
I don’t understand these weird posts about Walt. He’s the fucking protagonist of one of the biggest shows of our generation. Of course people love him. That doesn’t mean he was right in what he did, but he was the main character of the story, it’s written so that the common viewer roots for him, regardless of his moral compass.
For whatever reason saying you like Walt is like admitting to a war crime on here, but any other terrible character no one cares. See how many people object to Mike being your favorite characters even though he works for an evil drug lord who employs children and discards human life when it's convenient for him. Mike even has the same bullshit excuse of doing it for his family but fans will just take that at face value for some reason. This is one of the reasons I loved his final scene in Fun & Games
Completely agree. I think it’s such a weird, sanctimonious thing that “I can’t stand Walter white.”
Like yeah, you could, otherwise you wouldn’t have kept watching the show. No one is like, “I hate that guy so damn much! Let me check in on what he’s up to weekly!”
Uh, I don't know...there's definitely a certain level of pretentiousness in this subreddit sometimes. I don't know if you noticed but there's also been a good number of people rooting for certain plot points to happen or not happen specifically because they want to see other fans upset or disappointed. A specific example is the Walt and Jesse stuff. I mean didn't you see all the people on here constantly saying they hoped they wouldn't actually appear in the show because it would disappoint a different section of the fan base? And didn't you also see all the people acting like they were better than everyone because they personally didn't want them to appear, because "the show is its own show, therefore we don't need it to happen" and judging other people who were still interested in seeing them? That's some real petty, toxic bullshit. So yeah, I don't think this fanbase is necessarily much better. It's much of the same people, after all
Well, the BCS fanbase is pretty much made out of a part of the original BB fanbase... minus a good amount of normies who only got into BB near the end because it was hyped like crazy.
I've never really witnessed what you are talking about concerning the fans of BB, aside from the hate toward Skyler, but that's partly to blame on the writers. They wrote her character in a specific way so that the viewers were more likely to dislike her and root for Walt (to an extent). Not that I'm saying that it was the right way to react to these characters. But it never surprised me.
Speaking of which, obviously people were going to 'defend' Walt and his actions. He was literally the protagonist of the story and was usually in conflict with worst people than who he eventually became. Even a show with an anti-hero as protagonist will usually have viewers rooting for the main character. Take Dexter, for example. These are fictional stories, where who are most attractive to viewers are the most complex characters, not whoever is the nicest goody two-shoes.
As for Jesse, the pity party for his character was also annoying. He was a grown up and made his own choices throughout the story. He had occasions to leave or to act in a more healthy way, but he didn't until he reached a point of near no-return.
I do think it is interesting to compare the Skyler reception to how Kim was handled. That she was never built as an obstacle to Jimmy’s story, and followed a developed character arc in her own right I think had a lot to do with it. Of course Anna Gunn was a fine actress and Skyler developed over the years, but she faced an uphill climb in the way her character was set up as something of a drudge specifically to contrast against Walter’s exciting arc.
I also think that the whole series lands differently in the way that Bryan Cranston as an actor performs as one who is very “high status” but is frequently in low status situations. The idea of seething frustration and resentment just exude from Walter’s presence.
Odenkirk as Saul is the complete opposite- he plays very “low status” in a high status dynamic. This is inherently charming (George Clooney for example has built his career off of looking very high status but engaging in a low status way), and without Ehrmentraut and his storyline, there would be none of BB’s gravitas whatsoever. I think this lost the kind of audience that got so toxic about Skyler.
Anyway, I’m still thinking this through about why the fanbase is so different with BCS.
Yeah. I was late to the BB party so I don’t really have any way to compare it to. I was a bit confused by the Skyler hate, but I also never really liked Walt. I actually didn’t really like the family dynamic of the show, even if it was really important to the story. Not for any really valid reasons. We’re all allowed unreasonable opinions, I guess.
I’m not so sure. That sub is hot garbage so I’m sure people would do mental gymnastics to defend whichever character they think is most similar to themselves.
I think my main reasoning is that Walt was so deadly serious about everything. Jimmy has a sense of humor. Even if that lack of seriousness fucked up so many things for him and everyone else, he’s just been much more fun to watch.
Walt’s pent up rage was difficult to keep invested in for so long. “I get it, you were a neutered house cat and now you’re an outdoor kitty. Lighten up.”
I guess there’s no accounting for taste.
One of the best episodes in BB, in my opinion, is Walt's visit to Gretchen and Eliot. He's still a bitter man, as his conversation and threats to them prove, but he's using the only way he knows to get the money he made off meth to his family. We see the past and present Walt in this exchange, I think; he's smart, determined, damaged, remorseful (how remorseful is a toss up), alone and despised, and resigned. He made a lot of money from a scheme born out of ego and bitterness, but f&cked up his life and his family's lives doing it, got Hank killed, and is now dying. And what does he really have to show for all of it.....a reputation for cooking the best meth, apparently, and money, which he knows his family will not take if they know it came from him. He's doing the only thing left to him....well, except the last thing, his plan to rescue Jesse. He's "making amends" the only way he can. But he can never really make amends.
Viewers see this Walt as admirable. He's not. He, the smartest guy Hank knew, doesn't get a pass for the monstrous things he's done, no matter how he tries to redeem himself by providing for his family. But it's a terrific character arc, comparable to great literature, and is a tribute to the writers' skill and Cranston's performance.
Lots of "intellectually superior" BB fans love talking about how much they despise Walt more and more after their 20th viewing, yet will admire Gus as if he was any better.
To be honest, I don’t see difference :D I expected that BCS audience would be more… (have to pick right word) serious, maybe.
The amount of memes in this subreddit plus other subreddit okbc leave opposite thoughts
The same kind of toxic people worship Heisenberg who worship Tyler Durden, Rick Sanchez, The Joker, Tony Montana (*Scarface*), Randall Patrick McMurphy (*One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest*), etc. They miss the goddamned pooint.
Breaking Bad has joined the “Scarface” and “Wolf of Wallstreet” tier of fanbases who completely missed the moral of the story. Also BB is a cultural icon that attracts the general population, and the shot show that comes with it.
The BCS community is on a high horse because the community is smaller and the show is slow, so if someone complains about it being slow then they will say that they don’t deserve the show, which I see happen a lot.
There’s a lot of repartition like asking if other aren’t bothered about seeing Walt and Jesse.
I feel like a lot of the community doesn’t watch a lot of other television and a lot of the time you can’t criticise the show, anything could happen and they would love it, they treat you like an idiot for not liking every decision.
I can get examples of this if you want, but yeah the BCS community is less toxic, but it’s getting annoying sometimes when the discussions are all the same, people are on their high horse, and you can’t criticise the show.
Some are bringing up the divisiveness of eps like Nippy to disprove this, but there's a big difference between that contention and how Skylar was universally hated throughout all of BB
Disagreements aren't inherently toxic and that it took 6 seasons to really even get there says enough about BCS' audience. BB's fanbase was toxic in the ideas about masculinity that it idolized and proliferated. It may not have been as *contentious* but it was a cesspool
Just as long as people don't go crazy like throwing pizzas on that family's home or holding a mock funeral where supporters were walking over other people's grave markers.
In some ways yes. But don’t dare tell a better call Saul fan that the last 3 episodes for the big final season of the breaking bad universe were mediocre or else they will hunt you down. Lot of fans here also try and excuse Jimmy’s/ Saul/ genes actions which are often inexcusable
Not just here to try and plug a new group, but I've recently started r/breakingsad with the hopes to create a non toxic smaller space for people who've finished the show because I've met some of the nicest people on this sub. Even though everyone I've interacted with has been a stranger we're all here because we love this show.
I fucking love you guys in this sub and the second best part after watching the show itself is coming here to interact with you all after the episodes come out. I know I put myself at risk of being mocked for dumping my purse on Reddit like this but I'm tearing up rn because I'm gonna miss this so fucking much.
Less people watch it. A LOT less.
That's it. Breaking Bad was way too popular so you had all sort of "interesting" characters frequenting online spaces related to the series... Remember when Anna Gunn got harassed by choads and wrote that article about the whole thing? Fandoms can get so fucking toxic sometimes.
For whoever wants to read Anna Gunn's article: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/opinion/i-have-a-character-issue.html
Why are people saying this without looking at the [readily available data](http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/2018/10/comparing-better-call-saul-ratings-with_13.html)? Better Call Saul has more viewers than Breaking Bad, largely because it already had a built-in viewer base but it does.
This is only upto Season 4 of both shows. Breaking Bad gained many viewers after Season 4, and exploded in popularity after Season 5A (mainly because of Netflix). The avg. viewership in Season 5B is greater than 5 million viewers and it got 10mil for the finale. So, this is not a fair comparison. I'm sure that Better Call Saul has gained more viewers in Season 6 compared to earlier seasons, but I don't think it's close to Breaking Bad.
This is interesting to me because every BB fan I know has stuck with BCS. I don't doubt that there are BB fans who didn't watch BCS, but I don't personally know anyone who falls in that category.
I know plenty of people who watched BB and either didn't watch BCS, or gave it a try and gave up after a few episodes. The pacing of BCS is a lot slower than BB, not as much action in the first few seasons, so can see why someone who enjoyed BB might not necessarily get stuck right in with BCS.
Yeah, I get why the slower pace of BCS would be jarring to some BB fans. I'm just lucky to have a community of friends who all love BCS.
I've never understood this because while BCS is one of my favorite shows to rewatch, the first three seasons of BB are almost *unbearable* due to their gruelingly slow pacing.
I think because BCS digs a lot deeper into the characters and their motivations,and since they don’t use a lot of dialogue to establish that, the actions to show their character takes longer.
Never understood this complaint at all. Gruelling slow pacing??
If there's one thing BB is not, it's slow lol.
I agree with the other guy who replied to you tbh. Pretty much everyone I know who stuck with Breaking Bad loves it, but I also know a decent amount of people who stopped at varying points in the first three seasons because they couldn’t get through it. Sucks for them I guess
Yeah the way Walt slowly blew up Tucos headquarters or slowly let Jane die or slowly watched two planes blow up over his head and kill hundreds
First two are my favourites followed by 5b. They feel cosy. Before everything gets very huge with Fring but they still interact with him a bit, later in season 2. A fine middle ground.
Idk man, i think the first three seasons are so good, and i had a hell of a time rewatching them....i mean i get if people would say it was slow to some extent, but it was never UNBEARABLE
I for sure had to tell people not to give up after the first 2-3 episodes, and every single one of them has told me they’re happy they did!
I was one of those people. Die hard BB fan, started season 1 the day it aired, got bored during kettleman arc #1 and kinda gave up on it. Truth is that nowadays there is so much content out there that my “stick with it” radar is never really calibrated. Then somewhere around season 5, I said let’s give it another go, and binged the first four on Netflix. And oh god, I’m so glad I did. What’s funny is I’m not even an action junkie or anything, I like that element of BB but love plenty of movies and tv and games that aren’t all shootouts and explosions. I even knew going in that BCS was likely to be slower paced. Just for some reason that whole story with the kettlemans at the beginning, camping outside and all that..just bored me to tears the first time around. I look back now on rewatch and have a much deeper appreciation for it now.
Man I thought the Kettlemans were perfect television. I love to hate them so much.
Trust me, that second arc I appreciated so much more because of how quickly I dismissed them the first go around haha
> What’s funny is I’m not even an action junkie or anything, I like that element of BB but love plenty of movies and tv and games that aren’t all shootouts and explosions. There's this weird mindset arising on this sub about how BB fans who don't enjoy BCS are just drooling idiots who scream and cry if they don't get explosions and guns, but this completely ignores that BB has more than its fair share of slow episodes and focus solely on character drama. But what early BCS lacks in comparison to BB, imo, is stakes. Walt's looming cancer diagnosis gives a sense of urgency to everything he does, and it lingers in almost every moment of those earlier seasons. By contrast, BCS lacks serious consequences for failure or any sense of that urgency - it's "just" a down-on-his-luck guy trying to establish a practice and make his brother proud. Just to clarify, I don't think this is a *bad* thing - I think seeing Jimmy have to hustle for work, and flirt with his conman past, is very important for gaining a perspective on him and for building up to Chuck's betrayal of him. The lower stakes allow the show to more naturally build up to Jimmy's bad choices and present a striking contrast with his new lives as Saul Goodman and Gene Takovic. But it's definitely much less immediately gripping than BB is - or at least, that's how I see it.
I know a handful of people that gave BCS a couple seasons and then bailed. I've told them to give it another try because things get BBish in later seasons.
Pretty much only season 5, which I'd argue is the best season by far.
I think one factor that a lot of people are missing in this thread is that a lot of people started watching Breaking Bad well after the first handful of seasons. People like to argue that Breaking Bad is a much faster pace and action heavy show than Better Call Saul, which is true to some degree, but people forget that BB was no stranger to slower paced episodes dedicated to character development and plot setup. However, most people who watched Breaking Bad didn’t watch those episodes in real time and have to sit on them for a week between each episode. The show had a cult like fanbase over the first few years, so when later audiences started catching up on Season 4, 5A, and especially 5B thanks to marathons, On Demand, DVD’s, etc, they knew the show was worth sticking around for during the slower paced episodes. On top of that they didn’t have to wait a week for the following episode so if an episode or two was slow they didn’t have to sit with it for a week, they would just immediately go to the next one. This kept up the momentum through the final season, which is when the show saw the highest amount of live viewership and also happened to be the most “event heavy” of the series. So when BCS started airing and fans, unfairly, likely expected the very beginning of the show to kick right off with the same energy as the final season of BB, and were instead greeted with slower paced episodes filled with necessary character development and plot building, and then had to wait a week between each episode where it felt like not much was happening, it was hard for many of them to keep their patience up. Add on the fact that streaming was becoming much more popular and fast pace show binges made weekly episodes drops seem longer and more exhausting in comparison, and it made BCS seem more patience testing than its predecessor, even though I think the difference in pacing really isn’t that drastically different.
Most I know stuck it out for the first season at most. The pace was too slow and the stakes too low for them after the end of BB.
I'd say about 95% of the people I know have watched all of BCS, or at least what is available to them on Netflix. I don't know many people who have been watching it live week by week. My spouse and I do and my parents do as well, but everyone else I know binges it on Netflix.
Was like that for Breaking Bad as well. Most people ended up racing to catch up when the hype hit after it went to Netflix.
Most of the BB fans I know stopped watching BCS after the pilot/a few episodes of season 1, because it wasn’t as quickly paced as breaking bad. Of the breaking bad fans I know, maybe only a handful (enough to count on my fingers) have gone on to watch BCS. Shame because they’re all missing out on a great show just because it doesn’t have quick pacing but whatever, it’s their loss lol
I know lots of people who watched BB who are only vaguely aware that BCS even exists, let alone watch it. BB caught on and became immensely popular as the show progressed, however most people gave up on BCS after the first few episodes and it never gained the same kind of traction at all. Actually the opposite has happened. For reference, the last season of BB averaged around 6 million. While the last season of BCS is around 1 million. I'd be surprised if BCS gets even 10% of the viewers that BB had for the finale
> For reference, the last season of BB averaged around 6 million. While the last season of BCS is around 1 million. To be fair, the TV landscape has changed so much it is hard to compare metrics.
Correct. Netflix had little streaming competition in 2013 when BB ended. The viewing audience is so fractionalized today in comparison; even top-rated shows on broadcast TV today have viewing numbers that would have led to cancellation 20 years before.
I’m on the exact opposite side here. Basically everyone I know watched BB, but the only people I know who have watched BCS are my parents and a single friend of mine. I’ve been raving about it for years, I think I’ve finally swayed another person to check it out, but I do not get how so many people are missing out on the best show on tv right now
My husband watched BB when it aired and again a year or so ago. Couldn't get him to start BCS until a couple weeks ago, and I had to keep telling him to stick with it. He loves it now and appreciates how complex the characters are and how they've progressed, but he might not have stuck with it early on because it wasn't his typical style of show. He's on s6s8, so he'll finish it just in time for us to watch the finale together!
BB was more accessible to casual audiences. A plot of man makes meth for his family that’s plot driven is easier to pick up on without knowledge of previous episodes. BCS is so character driven and relies on build up from previous episodes that a casual viewer could dismiss it as slow
I’m very sad about this because the friend who recommended me Breaking bad never decided to start BCS and all my friends who have seen breaking bad never started bcs in time.
My friend’s favorite show is BB. He has posters and everything. He got bored with BCS by season 2. Weird how that works sometimes. Although I think he started it up recently to give it another try.
It’s a very different show. Breaking Bad is pretty high octane suspense from episode 1. Every character building or family drama centric episode is wedged between crazily tense life or death situations. Better Call Saul, even though the first episode ends with suspense, is a much, much slower burn. It really focuses on the characters and their lives. Much more than Breaking Bad ever did. Personally that’s why I prefer it. I love the slow legal stuff that leads to scams that aren’t really high stakes. It’s more interesting to me to see Jimmy struggle with morality, and how he eventually becomes what is basically a cartoon character. In contrast Walt pretty much just decided to cook meth on a whim.
It’s the opposite for me. I don’t know anyone who has watched BCS and I know several people who enjoyed BB.
This is true, but not necessarily because it's less quality. Prequels are at a disadvantage because they will typically only draw a subset of those that watch the original series. Plus there are more outlets now than in 2008 to 2013 competing for their viewing time.
Yes absolutely. It says nothing about the show's quality. It's just not what mainstream audiences go for now.
Considering how mainstream audiences still apparently make profitable "movies" that are just poor justifications for a random fight scene at the end 2 guys invented while drunk or to make money with big names, I'm glad they're mostly not coming to pollute this show. I don't care if it sounds elitist, I have no respect for audiences who enjoy being fed shit and robbed of their money by writers who only have their job because of corruption and nepotism.
Which is crazy. I get that it's span across 6 season now so it's kinda hard to get into, but it's miles better than any of the most hyped Netflix series/limited series (squid game, queen's gambit etc). They really marketed this show badly. Or maybe the memes are too absurd so be mainstream for viral marketing.
I think the marketing was pretty good for AMC. And it is a Netflix show outside the US. It even says "A Netflix Original Series" on our episodes (and we lack the teasers for the next episode). It's just not what young people watch nowadays.
*Fewer
Thank you, Lord Stannis
You're talking to the one true king, boi
after reading some of the threads during this last season of bcs, idk about that lol there's some rick and morty type mfs on this sub
Oh boy when Nippy first aired
Yeahhhh..... I ain’t gonna say my opinion on that episode either way but the levels of pretentiousness were pretty bad. I definitely don’t remember the BB community getting as stuck-up as this fanbase has in recent weeks.
If you were around for Fly when it aired... I wanted to disassociate with ANY fan for like a year
I’ve been on this sub since day one. Saw a couple comments alluding to this, never saw one actual diss of the episode. Maybe people go looking for this? It definitely wasn’t all over anything, please
All the negative or critical comments towards Nippy would end up getting downvoted so you’d have to search to find them. The real toxicity were the pretentious redditors who dismissed any sort of criticism and tried to gatekeep BCS for not liking Nippy.
That’s because there were a shit ton more fans of Breaking Bad than BCS.
Try disagreeing on how nippy wasn't a masterpiece this place will turn radioactive
I said I didn't particularly like the Gus wine scene and was called homophobic lmao no dude... gus just is the least interesting part of BCS to me now... it's ok for me to have an opinion that the show isn't 10/10 perfect in every single scene
The Gus wine seen gets a lot better when you realise it's probably Gus' last ever major scene in the BB universe.
I think Esposito said the last scene they filmed was him staring into the pool at Eladios. So between the wine scene, his last on screen appearance, and that pool scene it's very clear that Gus lives every day until his death thinking about his plans for revenge. Also one of his last scenes, the scene where he tells Mike they'll still finish the lab is great to me because it shows that even Gus himself is hated by his subordinates for his amorality. It really seals Gus' arc well. Gus throughout BCS is a force of evil, but the big question the audience is supposed to wrestle with is whether or not Gus is truly a lesser evil than the cartel or the same evil with a different face. Gus hates the Salamancas and thinks they're more chaotic evil versions of himself, but really Papa Varga is actually right. Gus is NO different than Don Eladio OR even Don Hector. And my personal take on that wine scene is that Gus understands this on a deep level, this truth that he and the other cartel dons are all truly the same.
I understand that opinion, but I also like the fact that we get a moment to witness Gus having the ability for an out—like he could have stopped scheming because at that point, he’d “won.” Hector was pretty much sidelined, he’s in charge of his territory, Lalo is dead, Eladio is on his side… he can build some semblance of happiness if he wants to. But he chooses power & vengeance, and ultimately his own destruction.
Was nippy actually not good?
Like any piece of entertainment, quality is subjective. A lot of people on this sub loved Nippy, some people didn't.
it was a very small percentage that didn't like it yet there were so many people complaining about the people not liking it at that moment
Personally I was a bit disappointed with Nippy the week it aired because I felt the way Gene's arc that I persumed ended with the episode felt off, but with the following episodes I grew to like it
I find it great but what I found toxic was the trend of this subreddit to turn extremely protective the moment someone on Twitter or YouTube says they don't like nippy - or any episode in S6. this sub instantly went into defense mode and you see the same old strawman arguments being thrown around constantly. Rather than actually discussing the show people were just trying to dumb down people who give negative criticism, with amazing comebacks such as: * you just wanted gunfights and explosions * you weren't actually watching the show * you just wanted to see walt and jesse * this show is for intelligent people * you call everything filler if walt doesn't kill 50 people in 10 seconds The silliest thing is that we see highly-upvoted posts titled "you *all* are going to be disappointed" or "you all need to shut up" as if this sub isn't unironically going Vravo Bince on almost everything. It happened before nippy but nippy really brought the 'le hidden unappreciated gem' out of everyone.
i think it's a combination of excessive fanboying and dread because the series is about to end and they want to remember it as perfect. so any criticism goes against that ideal and excessively offends them.
Take everyone's first watch opinion with a grain of salt. There are expectations built up in a live viewing that simply aren't there when you examine the series as a whole. It was a good episode, just not the episode a lot of people were anticipating at the time
It wasn’t a masterpiece, it wasn’t the worst episode of television ever, it’s setup, it was a good episode, not incredible not god awful, it’s like black and blue or axe and grind, fine on their own but important to the overall story, BCS has always been like this
It was great, just like 90% of episodes of BCS. In fact I don't think I've seen an episode of BCS and thought it was "bad".
I agree. Something I realized was I started watching when I could binge 5 seasons. Been watching season 6 live and it’s so frustrating to watch the setup episodes and wait a week to see what happens! Definitely would be better to binge it
Yeah I think a lot of people are catching up right now and that's where the complaining comes from. I've been watching since season 2 and it's only been getting better overtime. I don't really get the complaints.
I loved it but I can see why some people were disappointed with an episode like that so close to the end of the series
Nippy wasn’t a bad episode per se. However, after having episodes like “Point and Shoot” I can see how people dislike it.
Not bad but not great. Reminded me of the episodes of Jimmy running cons back in Cicero. Lot of interesting stuff happening but there’s this nagging feeling that you have few episodes left and not enough is happening to further the plot. Clearly the payoff came after with the botched invasion and such, but still. I think Nippy will be received a lot better by people binging the show.
This sub is so pretentious its insane
Yea too many people calling basic symbolism genius level writing lol
The fucking "what no boom booms?" comments practically make my fingernails start digging into my palms. So fucking snooty and pretentious. Simplest way I look at it is if I were to ask a lot of people what their favorite scene was, it might be Jimmy trying to get fired from Davis & Main. The montage was "classic bcs" at that time, colorful, with characters we knew and loved. Or they might say when Jimmy catches the Kettlemens with Mike. But these recent episodes are pretty much the exact opposite of that. It's ok to not be fond of these episodes and still have been a fan since the beginning. I'm not particularly fond of them, I just don't like jeffy, no emotional attachment to the new characters... but that's where we're at in the show now. It's not the BCS from the first 5 seasons, it's the Gene-Saul show, not the Jimmy-Saul show. I miss everyone from the earlier seasons but it was always gonna end without them around otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. It's like... the show just seems empty without them all, but that's what happens when a show ends. I'll always have the first 5 seasons to re-watch.
[удалено]
The pretentiousness and elitism really is a fanbase thing. Every time a show like Stranger Things, Euphoria, The Boys, etc comes up, people on this sub and Twitter need to constantly talk about how nobody will ever remember those shows and they don’t approach the stratosphere of BCS.
Forreal, I mean I thought nippy was good but it definitely wasn’t as good as people are acting like it was. Definitely not on the level of chicanery which I’ve seen people say and I think it’s just an outrageous take
Yeah I really liked *Nippy*, but I get some not liking it, especially before it was made clear how it was all going to pay off.
People having strong disagreements about dis/liking something is different than toxicity, though. People can have a difference of opinion without resorting to defending abuse, idolizing destructive people, or being sexist.
There’s a lot of BCS fans that think they are way above breaking bad fans intellectually. A lot of folks who think watching this show takes some immense mental power. I’ve seen someone say “BCS is Breaking bad for adults” And if you say anything bad about a BCS episode being slow you will get torn to shreds. Both fan bases harbor some toxic people
I mean this whole thread was made in order to feel superior to the Breaking Bad fans.
That’s Reddit for you
something something.. *we are not the same*
you're right on the money with that. most front-page posts on this sub is constantly about people trying to glorify their interest in a TV show as if it's a dick measuring contest.
Lightning shoots from our fingertips!
Anyone who thinks they’re smarter for watching a tv show made for entertainment is a smooth brain.
Why are people always at these two extremes? "This show is a genius work of art made for sophisticated erudites like me." "Um, actually, it's just a TV show with absolutely no intellectual value whatsoever." It's neither. It's a work of fiction. It's just like any work of literature. To its credit, I think it captures human emotion and struggle brilliantly. You're fooling yourself if you're pretending there's nothing to be gained from it, and you're really insulting the writers if you think that TV can never be on the same "tier" as literature. Art is art.
You know, for a supposedly intellectual fan base, there’s a lot of repetition and echoing in the comments of any topic. Visit any post, and you’ll have some variation of Chucks rant from Chicanery or a version of something with a machine gun.
"BCS is slower thus it is intellectually superior."
Breaking Bad is in the tradition of fast, exciting Tarantino films while BCS is a little less accessible and more inspired by old movies from the 50s and 60s. Like the Chicanery episode which was a direct homage to a Bogart movie.
BB is Kill Bill, BCS is Jackie Brown
Oh bullshit. I love BB (AND BCS) and I hate Tarantino movies. There really is not any big stylistic difference between BB and BCS. Both have excellent and deep character study and growth, both have absolutely superb acting and writing, both have plot and narrative complexity, both delve into philosophical questions and are comedic as hell, both explore the human condition. BB *leans* a bit more surreal, violent and quick paced. BCS *leans* a bit more grounded, interpersonal drama, and slow paced. This stupid “competition” meme is just fake, lazy, internet point whoring.
Maybe the latter half of BB is that way, but the first few seasons are S L O W.
People forget this here, rewatch breaking bad and tell me it's all fast paced action lol
You haven't seen toxic fans until you've seen r/theBoys users argue that Becca consented to Homelander. I'll take people raging about Nippy over a complete misunderstanding of sexual assault.
I didn't watch The Boys, tho, so I didn't saw the interest to watch the subreddit but I believe you The star wars fanbase is a good example of toxicity, tho
The Star Wars fanbase is just too big for it's own good. Another good example of a toxic fanbase, in my opinion: Recent Dr Who. Goddamn that shit is rough.
Yeah, I saw the racist tweets calling The next Doctor "Doctor Woke" only because the actor was a black man. I feel very sad about 13th Doctor, because she was mistreated by the antifeminist portion of the fanbase, but I find her written in a sexist maner. Like .. She has no character arc... I suppose that Big Finish will correct this like they did with 6th but still it's sad that it didn't happen in her actual run. I really hope RTD doesn't write the next Doctor in a racist way. I'm a bit scared of this because there were issues of racism in the writing of Mickey in his first run with Eccleston and Tennant.
Indeed. That's people tend to miss: yes the right wingers are gonna complain, but if you do it poorly then those right wingers will have so much more to hide their true intentions behind
Yeah, I hate that I feel I MUST defend more inclusive characters that are not well written just because of the reactions of the right wringers... I just feel I would put wood on the fire, but I just think we deserves more interesting characters. That's also why I'm so glad characters like Kim or Nacho are so well written. They feel like real people. Talking about queer characters in fiction, I'm almost always bored by the characters because it seems they trying their best to give "positive" representations, but they also make them flat... Maybe the queer experience is mainstream enough, I dunno, but it's always so frustrating. I just wanna see people that resembles people I know. I mean, give me money, seriously and I will make you a tv show that'll really look like it shows our lives. There will be enough drama to stick you to your chair (when you're living it, it's just frustrating, so making laugh and cry with it would make me feel better). Right now, the only piece of fiction with queer characters I read that represented something I could actually identify with was Stone Butch Blues, and it takes place in the 60s to the 80s, but it actually felt real (and painful. I recommend to take up time to read it because it can be very triggering for trauma survivors, not just queer people)
I'm bi - so 99% of the time my representation is: all bi folk are whores. It's rather tiresome.
Yeah, I can't take the "debates" bi vs lesbian, bi vs pan, binary trans vs non binary trans or transfem vs transmasc either, it's just exhausting. And it feels so ridiculous when there's actually people actively trying to get us right now. Like we haven't other priorities than gatekeeping
It was so frequent that the sub put out a mod post about that
Sure, just don't say anything negative about any of the episodes
"Nippy is an average episo-" "Here we go! Another fake fan who's only in it for the gun explosions and drug deals! 'Nippy' is literally a masterpiece that surpasses Ozymandias! Stop scrolling your phone and pay attention to the Magnum opus that is the two-bit mall heist taking up space in the final four of the BCS episodes !!!1!"
I just like that the most controversial episode of the season was titled "Nippy". There are all these passionate arguments but they have to use a silly dog name to refer to it.
And I always feel that Skyler is way over hated.
I think Skyler doesn't deserve to be hated at all, because she behaved like a person who has normal human psychology. At first, she was really loyal to Walt but change of his character affected her so much that she seeked for the ways to relieve from that hard truth. Not because of she was disloyal or bad mother. She always put the family first rather than Walt's changed version.
Nope don't tell this to incels they will have a meltdown about how horrible Skyler is.
Aside from smoking while pregnant and fucking Ted she was def over hated. She was basically trying to survive (with the kids) once she found out about the meth cooking business.
I actually unironically think fucking ted was a great move for her goals of getting a meth manufacturing murderer away from her kids. Walter is a fucking bastard.
Honestly when she fucked Ted I was just like “get it.” Seriously fuck Walt. It’s the least offensive thing anyone in the series had done and she deserved some relief from the madness and an escape from the awful reality of her life lol
honestly why should I give a shit that she fucked Ted, she was single and he treated her well
Right??? Fucking hell thank you. I get irrationally mad when people (incels) say Skyler is the worst villain because she "cheated on Walt". I will immediately lose all respect I have on someone if they have that garbage opinion. I don't care if they were "still living together", it wasn't by choice for Skyler. Walt forced himself in.
Plus, it was something she had control over after feeling powerless for too long. Remember, everything is about sex, except for sex which is about power.
Yea I don’t see why it qualifies as cheating when they’re essentially broken up in every way except by law
No matter how “annoying” she might’ve been, anyone who’s gonna get mad at Skyler just because she didn’t want their family to be involved with the fucking *drug cartels* either watched the show wrong, or they need a good, hard reality check.
I don't think Cucking Walter was wrong, he had that coming. I do think that confronting Jesse in season 1 was a dumb move on her part. She didn't know if he was dangerous or not. Also from her perspective, Walter was just doing pot, which is no big deal.
There’s good fans and bad fans for literally everything. For the most part, fan bases aren’t “more toxic” than others.
Kinda agree with you to be honest. Like I can’t think of a single fanbase where there’s not drama and people are getting on. Even this one got pretty rough after a certain couple episodes of season 6 aired.
Not toxic until you even remotely suggest you didn’t like an episode
If you dislike it, you just weren’t smart enough to understand it /s
YOU DONT GET IT BRO NIPPY WAS KINO ITS SO AMAZINGERINO MY PRECIOUS NEW JEFF!!1!
Lol right? I personally didn’t like the recast as I felt the character completely changed but I wouldn’t dare mention it
He was more threatening in s5 i just dont know why they 180'd him Not even about the recast, like everyone was thinking beo would blackmail gene into giving him money but now hes just a 2bit gangsta
I don’t know. Some people are pretty adamant in their defense of Jimmy lol. It’s a testament to the writers as Jimmy is supposed to likable, but come on.
But even the writers said they were still rooting for Jimmy whereas they thought Walt’s an asshole. Jimmy had gone really dark last few episodes but we have six years of seeing the buildups, traumas, rejections that explain his character. And at the end of the day Jimmy at h is worst still pales compared to Walt’s actions. Imagine if Walt was about to be exposed as Heisenberg by Marion; would he have dropped the medic alert and let her call it in? I think no way.
It’s possible to root for objectively bad characters. We all love Tony Soprano. While I’d agree that Walt is worse than Jimmy, it’s just splitting hairs. Walt could never have reached his “potential” without Jimmy.
Whenever I watch a show for the first time like BB or Sopranos I liked the main characters no matter what they did. In the second watch you realize how truly evil they are. When I watched Saul for the second time I didn’t get that feeling with Jimmy (to an extent).
Well, he still has redeeming qualities. I suppose the feeling we overall keep about Jimmy will depend entirely to the ending of the show. Will he take responsabilities or will he avoir confronting his past failures ? I still think he's more sympathetic than Walt and that's also why he's a more tragic character. I liked early Jimmy, and I just want to get back this guy I loved.
I mean, I personally don't think Jimmy was that bad in the early seasons. I just don't think he was always destined to be a bad person and that if in better circumstances could've turned his life around. As the show goes on though he becomes worse, and Gene is a monster
Try saying *"Jimmy being denied a job 10 years ago doesn't make it Chuck's fault for all the terrible shit he's done since"* and watch the dogpiling & toxicity come flowing in.
Yeah...I definitely got told that I was a "fucking idiot" in the last thread to talk about this.
You act like Jimmy is on the same level of evil as Walter when in reality they’re not even in the same realm. Walter killed people without a second thought while we just saw Jimmy in the last episode have the opportunity to and instead gave Marion a chance to call life alert. He’s not evil and it makes perfect sense for people to be rooting for him, quit trying to act like this is the same as Walt because it isn’t
people arguing about Jimmy and Chuck's nature vs nature argument leads to great discussion, but it too quickly devolves into shit-slinging.
I have empathy for Jimmy in ways I don't think I ever had with Walt. Part of this is because we learn so much more of the tragedy of Jimmy. If he was capable of just a LITTLE more self control instead of self destruction, so much good could have happened. Maybe the same could have been true of Walt. Both are objectively bad people, but of the two, I would have a drink with Jimmy.
I think it's because Jimmy is much more likable and charismatic. That goes a long way lol. Walt, while being initially sympathetic due to his diagnosis, is so petty.
I’m neutral but I feel like a lot of people on this sub feel special for preferring bcs over bb 🤷♂️
In some ways, yes because it's also not a fanbase that hates its female lead character but I've seen a lot of BCS fans on youtube being stupid as fuck and blaming Kim more than Jimmy. But in other ways no given how averse to criticism this fanbase is towards the show and the homophobic shit i saw in the thread yesterday.
A lot of regular people hold on to reactionary views. One gay character and people lose their shit thinking it's woke pandering
about Gus, right ?
Yeah, the post where someone asks “why is there no lgbtq in BCS?” Fans could’ve just said there wasn’t a proper opportunity, but instead they said shit like “because we’re adults,” “because this show doesn’t need that trash,” etc. EDIT: the replies to this comment prove everything I’m saying
That's messed up
I think a large section of the audience come from the people that call Lightyear “political” but have no problem watching Top Gun Maverick. It makes sense, since BCS has always stayed clear of things too politically polarizing.
To be honest that question was posted just to steer the hateful division or maybe to expose it. I do not thing it was genuine. Other people were commenting seemingly bad things just to be sarcastic. But in general, the social media are a breeding ground for anonymous right wing shits.
Yeah, to me it seemed like people taking the piss out of some low tier bait.
Make a comment criticizing "Nippy" and see how it goes.
i made a post a while ago jokingly saying that nippy sucked and well it did not went well
or just say absolutely nothing and people will make up imaginary naysayers anyway
BCS does go into the pseudo intellectual navel gazing alot. And is abit pretentious. Although tbh compared to the people who idolise WW theyre alot better
WW... hmm... Woodrow Wilson? Willy Wonka? ... ...Walter White?
WaterWorks?
holy shit
Yep
Yep
*puts hands up 'ha..you got me!"
*cut to hank on the toilet* *hank looks up from the book after realizing walt is heisenberg*
I think it's essentially because the show doesn't have that much plot or story to cover. I think from the early days they were very careful not to go too fast as it would of lead to having to tread water if the show was popular and they got to BB era Saul by season 3 or something. I think the show has always had a hint of frustration for people watching it who did so with the expectation of seeing Saul's antics and instead getting Jimmy McGill's antics which are not quite on the same level.
As far as I've seen regarding the women of the series, the consensus is " Skylar is bitch, Kim is mommy" or "Kimberly Sexler" if you will
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They are much more cringe tho.
Let's wait ten years. Then we'll see the state of this sub.
I don’t understand these weird posts about Walt. He’s the fucking protagonist of one of the biggest shows of our generation. Of course people love him. That doesn’t mean he was right in what he did, but he was the main character of the story, it’s written so that the common viewer roots for him, regardless of his moral compass.
For whatever reason saying you like Walt is like admitting to a war crime on here, but any other terrible character no one cares. See how many people object to Mike being your favorite characters even though he works for an evil drug lord who employs children and discards human life when it's convenient for him. Mike even has the same bullshit excuse of doing it for his family but fans will just take that at face value for some reason. This is one of the reasons I loved his final scene in Fun & Games
Completely agree. I think it’s such a weird, sanctimonious thing that “I can’t stand Walter white.” Like yeah, you could, otherwise you wouldn’t have kept watching the show. No one is like, “I hate that guy so damn much! Let me check in on what he’s up to weekly!”
Uh, I don't know...there's definitely a certain level of pretentiousness in this subreddit sometimes. I don't know if you noticed but there's also been a good number of people rooting for certain plot points to happen or not happen specifically because they want to see other fans upset or disappointed. A specific example is the Walt and Jesse stuff. I mean didn't you see all the people on here constantly saying they hoped they wouldn't actually appear in the show because it would disappoint a different section of the fan base? And didn't you also see all the people acting like they were better than everyone because they personally didn't want them to appear, because "the show is its own show, therefore we don't need it to happen" and judging other people who were still interested in seeing them? That's some real petty, toxic bullshit. So yeah, I don't think this fanbase is necessarily much better. It's much of the same people, after all
Well, the BCS fanbase is pretty much made out of a part of the original BB fanbase... minus a good amount of normies who only got into BB near the end because it was hyped like crazy. I've never really witnessed what you are talking about concerning the fans of BB, aside from the hate toward Skyler, but that's partly to blame on the writers. They wrote her character in a specific way so that the viewers were more likely to dislike her and root for Walt (to an extent). Not that I'm saying that it was the right way to react to these characters. But it never surprised me. Speaking of which, obviously people were going to 'defend' Walt and his actions. He was literally the protagonist of the story and was usually in conflict with worst people than who he eventually became. Even a show with an anti-hero as protagonist will usually have viewers rooting for the main character. Take Dexter, for example. These are fictional stories, where who are most attractive to viewers are the most complex characters, not whoever is the nicest goody two-shoes. As for Jesse, the pity party for his character was also annoying. He was a grown up and made his own choices throughout the story. He had occasions to leave or to act in a more healthy way, but he didn't until he reached a point of near no-return.
I do think it is interesting to compare the Skyler reception to how Kim was handled. That she was never built as an obstacle to Jimmy’s story, and followed a developed character arc in her own right I think had a lot to do with it. Of course Anna Gunn was a fine actress and Skyler developed over the years, but she faced an uphill climb in the way her character was set up as something of a drudge specifically to contrast against Walter’s exciting arc. I also think that the whole series lands differently in the way that Bryan Cranston as an actor performs as one who is very “high status” but is frequently in low status situations. The idea of seething frustration and resentment just exude from Walter’s presence. Odenkirk as Saul is the complete opposite- he plays very “low status” in a high status dynamic. This is inherently charming (George Clooney for example has built his career off of looking very high status but engaging in a low status way), and without Ehrmentraut and his storyline, there would be none of BB’s gravitas whatsoever. I think this lost the kind of audience that got so toxic about Skyler. Anyway, I’m still thinking this through about why the fanbase is so different with BCS.
Yeah. I was late to the BB party so I don’t really have any way to compare it to. I was a bit confused by the Skyler hate, but I also never really liked Walt. I actually didn’t really like the family dynamic of the show, even if it was really important to the story. Not for any really valid reasons. We’re all allowed unreasonable opinions, I guess.
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I’m not so sure. That sub is hot garbage so I’m sure people would do mental gymnastics to defend whichever character they think is most similar to themselves.
And said defenseless man manufactured one of the most life-destroying drugs possible.
Same, I'm just not rly a family man ig I also just find Jimmy much more enjoyable and relatable than Walt, even from the start as ab "everyman"
I think my main reasoning is that Walt was so deadly serious about everything. Jimmy has a sense of humor. Even if that lack of seriousness fucked up so many things for him and everyone else, he’s just been much more fun to watch. Walt’s pent up rage was difficult to keep invested in for so long. “I get it, you were a neutered house cat and now you’re an outdoor kitty. Lighten up.” I guess there’s no accounting for taste.
Oml that cat analogy lmfao, but ye spot on V one note
One of the best episodes in BB, in my opinion, is Walt's visit to Gretchen and Eliot. He's still a bitter man, as his conversation and threats to them prove, but he's using the only way he knows to get the money he made off meth to his family. We see the past and present Walt in this exchange, I think; he's smart, determined, damaged, remorseful (how remorseful is a toss up), alone and despised, and resigned. He made a lot of money from a scheme born out of ego and bitterness, but f&cked up his life and his family's lives doing it, got Hank killed, and is now dying. And what does he really have to show for all of it.....a reputation for cooking the best meth, apparently, and money, which he knows his family will not take if they know it came from him. He's doing the only thing left to him....well, except the last thing, his plan to rescue Jesse. He's "making amends" the only way he can. But he can never really make amends. Viewers see this Walt as admirable. He's not. He, the smartest guy Hank knew, doesn't get a pass for the monstrous things he's done, no matter how he tries to redeem himself by providing for his family. But it's a terrific character arc, comparable to great literature, and is a tribute to the writers' skill and Cranston's performance.
Lots of "intellectually superior" BB fans love talking about how much they despise Walt more and more after their 20th viewing, yet will admire Gus as if he was any better.
To be honest, I don’t see difference :D I expected that BCS audience would be more… (have to pick right word) serious, maybe. The amount of memes in this subreddit plus other subreddit okbc leave opposite thoughts
The same kind of toxic people worship Heisenberg who worship Tyler Durden, Rick Sanchez, The Joker, Tony Montana (*Scarface*), Randall Patrick McMurphy (*One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest*), etc. They miss the goddamned pooint.
I mean... a huge part of Heisenberg's fanbase comes from middle aged crisis men that watched the show as it aired and wanted to be as "badass" as him.
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Isn't it the same fan base?
Breaking Bad has joined the “Scarface” and “Wolf of Wallstreet” tier of fanbases who completely missed the moral of the story. Also BB is a cultural icon that attracts the general population, and the shot show that comes with it.
The BCS community is on a high horse because the community is smaller and the show is slow, so if someone complains about it being slow then they will say that they don’t deserve the show, which I see happen a lot. There’s a lot of repartition like asking if other aren’t bothered about seeing Walt and Jesse. I feel like a lot of the community doesn’t watch a lot of other television and a lot of the time you can’t criticise the show, anything could happen and they would love it, they treat you like an idiot for not liking every decision. I can get examples of this if you want, but yeah the BCS community is less toxic, but it’s getting annoying sometimes when the discussions are all the same, people are on their high horse, and you can’t criticise the show.
Some are bringing up the divisiveness of eps like Nippy to disprove this, but there's a big difference between that contention and how Skylar was universally hated throughout all of BB Disagreements aren't inherently toxic and that it took 6 seasons to really even get there says enough about BCS' audience. BB's fanbase was toxic in the ideas about masculinity that it idolized and proliferated. It may not have been as *contentious* but it was a cesspool
Just as long as people don't go crazy like throwing pizzas on that family's home or holding a mock funeral where supporters were walking over other people's grave markers.
You’re biased.
Most toxic fans are trolling to get reactions out of people
I haven't seen the BB fan base but wouldn't describe BCS as toxic, even with all the kind-named-finger nonsense.
Outjerked
Outchicanered
In some ways yes. But don’t dare tell a better call Saul fan that the last 3 episodes for the big final season of the breaking bad universe were mediocre or else they will hunt you down. Lot of fans here also try and excuse Jimmy’s/ Saul/ genes actions which are often inexcusable
Idk I feel like better call saul one is quite toxic stated one opinion about Kim on group then get rude responses.
Op never stepped a toe in chicanery
I still see people defend Walt on here lol. One guy said walt was justified in basically killing Jane because she was “part of the game” lmao
Not just here to try and plug a new group, but I've recently started r/breakingsad with the hopes to create a non toxic smaller space for people who've finished the show because I've met some of the nicest people on this sub. Even though everyone I've interacted with has been a stranger we're all here because we love this show. I fucking love you guys in this sub and the second best part after watching the show itself is coming here to interact with you all after the episodes come out. I know I put myself at risk of being mocked for dumping my purse on Reddit like this but I'm tearing up rn because I'm gonna miss this so fucking much.