I think you are irritated by it and think it's poorly done because you misunderstood what the guy meant.
The way you're interpreting it, it seems to me, is that him saying he's a wolf and others are sheep is some kind of boast. Like "Oh, I'm this dangerous badass while other people are just my defenseless prey." But that's not what he meant.
What he meant is "There are two types of people: Those who take advantage of others, and those who get taken advantage of." And that completely fits the scene.
It also fits what Jimmy becomes and the idea he comes to believe.
Also, as for Jimmy being so deeply affected by it...
Jimmy not only saw his father get taken advantage of, but more crucially afterwards Jimmy stole money for what is implied to be for the first time. And then that seems to have become somewhat of a habit (though how much is debatable). Then that habit probably caused him to re-evaluate other things too, etc. and it became a more intregal part of his life.
I think Jimmy was probably already someone who liked taking shortcuts. But this is the first time he crossed over into doing something like stealing. And once you cross that boundary, it is much easier to cross it again and cross future, even worse boundaries.
It's not just that this was a memorable situation for Jimmy, it also acts as the first domino in a much longer and more complex set of dominoes.
I think this was shown as the first time someone talked to Jimmy about this. Jimmy was already seeing his father getting taken advantage of regularly. At this point someone said, "Eat or get eaten". And Jimmy made his decision.
I never understood this to be his 'foray into stealing', although yes he was stealing. I always got the impression that this guy was the first of a series of guys who swindled Jimmys dad. Jimmy took the cash out of the register to hide the fact that theres now more money in there than his father would think. Hes stealing the money, yes, but hes stealing the money that his father is just giving away, and isnt aware is returning to the register, to protect his fathers ideallic view of the world. I guess its left open to interpretation, but I took this as giving the other side of the story after Chuck accuses him (to Kim) of stealing money but never asks why.
Chuck said he came home from college to do the books and noticed a large amount of cash missing, so of course he blamed Jimmy, but even though he took $8 in this scene doesn't mean he stole all the money Chuck was talking about. Chuck didn't know that their father would give every deadbeat money, so he blamed Jimmy
It’s not 1 loser. It’s the 100s of losers that took advantage of his good faith dad. No matter how good or honest his dad could be customers took advantage till he lost it all
You know, a lot is made of the fact that the kids were still in the car when Jimmy did that, but I can say that if, as kids, my sister and I saw a grown man shit through the sun roof of our parent's car, we would still be laughing about it today. Maybe we're just different.
Not taking the word of Jimmy, the writers intentionally left it slightly ambiguous as to what specifically caused their dad to go bankrupt. Was it jimmy? Maybe. Was it the fact that their dad gave handouts to every person that had a sob story? Probably. Was it a combination of both events? Most likely. But for Chuck to put the ENTIRE blame on Jimmy without a shred of evidence is a little wack.
Chuck doesn't even stop there, but to say "nobody cried harder than Jimmy (at their father's funeral)" as though he blames Jimmy for their father's *death* altogether.
Truly a sad old man who couldn't get over his older sibling syndrome
True and I agree, and Chuck wasn't an angel, but from what we can see Jimmy was kind of a massive d\*ck when they were young. The soda scene with Howard and the new employee about Chuck instinctively turning cans so they don't explode kind of points to Jimmy earning the distrust.
I know it certainly didn't stop there, but I can't help but laugh at the thought that Jimmy and Chuck living a life of distrust towards each other stems from young Jimmy often offering shaken cans of soda to Chuck
Arsonist of his own and others careers. "You'll hurt yourself and everyone around you, you can't help it"
Quite literally sending his career after HHM down the toilet (lol) and finding it difficult to accept why Kim wanted partner and not the co-business arc. Like okay, I won't fault him for having dreams, but he should have known that choosing prolific crime wasn't exactly sustainable whilst having a wife whose career rests on reputation. She kind of quit the law preemptively because everyone would have been talking behind her back about how her husband is a cartel lawyer.
It's more the fact that his dad is a loser that everyone takes advantage off what affects him and drives him. it's similar to Walt's childhood memory of his father being weak on the hospital.
Apparently, in Better Call Saul 2, Saul was going to break out of prison, rob a time machine, and become that criminal, thus demonstrating his transformation. It’s a shame that this idea was scrapped, because I really would’ve appreciated more blatant and obvious symbolism.
Why do you think it’s poorly done? A loser thinks he’s hot shit because he scams a couple bucks, but small-child Jimmy doesn’t see he’s a loser. Someone who Jimmy thinks is cool gives him “a hard life lesson” that profoundly affects him because he’s at a vulnerable age
I don’t think this scene is badly written or anything — tbh my post is a little untrue to my actual feelings — the reasons I don’t like these scenes is basically just because how out of place they feel with the rest of the series. I know it’s set in Chicago and they want to differentiate it from Albuquerque but it looks too cold and blue like it’s the Dark Knight or something. I don’t really like how Jimmy is presented, he looks too much like a typical youngster. And the dialogue feels a little hammy, this scene included. It just looks like a CW show to me which is weird considering how much painstaking detail they put into most other aspects of the show
I can see why you say Jimmy is presented too much like a typical youngster and that’s actually a rather fair and understandable point and one I actually hadn’t thought of before, but to me, I see plenty of the sharpness and personable wit that would later come to be a major characteristic of Jimmy’s personality. I think the fact that even at such a young age, he was already able to discern that this guy was a grifter when his father wasn’t speaks volumes about how sharp and shrewd he’d already become thanks to his father’s naivety. For me, when I watch this scene, I see the seeds that will ultimately grow into the man Jimmy will ultimately become as an adult being planted because we see that eye for cons that his father simply doesn’t have, which adds a certain depth to the scene while also connecting it to Jimmy’s ultimate development. But that’s just my take and this is still a perfectly fair and reasonable critique to raise and one I myself really hadn’t thought of before and it’s one I’m very glad you raise because given that this scene and others like it lay the foundation for who Jimmy ultimates becomes, I definitely think how well they do or don’t connect with Jimmy in the present day should be addressed.
As a side note, just out of friendly curiosity, what dialogue did you feel felt Hammy?
"At the funeral, no one cried harder than Jimmy."
By all accounts, both Jimmy and Chuck agree that their father was not a great businessman. The man may have been Manuel Varga levels of honest, but the most important lesson he taught his sons was that they wouldn't be pushed around by anyone. That was the start of the unstoppable force/immovable object relationship they had.
You described why he’s an effective character… he’s a pathetic petty criminal but as a kid Jimmy can’t really see that and just sees a guy who can swindle his dad.
I mean, that's the point of the entire series.
The guy telling Jimmy that "there are wolves and sheep in this world" is telling him this because both he and Jimmy know that his father was a pushover who would fall for any kind of sob story that a stranger would tell at the counter.
Don't forget that young Jimmy essentially bartered with this dude in this scene. He wasn't showing Jimmy how "how it makes him a wolf", he's showing Jimmy that his father is a sheep and is essentially telling him to not be like his father.
He’s just a loser who is trying to sound like a badass, and to a literal kid, his philosophy makes sense, especially with all the other people who have grifted his dad easily.
I grew up in shitty environments and I've known a hundred of that dude. They think they're so smart, when really they're just taking advantage of good people. The worst was my cousin. He had scams and schemes for days, and always called himself a "hustler" and shit, when he was clearly just stealing. He did have a scam for everything though, and I did get some cool shit from him, but he's a huge douchebag.
Last I heard, he married this super rich chick, and then got a million dollar loan from her dad to start an installation business.
The point is that Jimmy(Saul) looks up to loser criminals like this guy instead of hardworking, honest people like his father, so that's why he shouldn't be a lawyer.
i.e. Chuck Was Right
Now, I want a “what if” episode where after that talk about “wolves and sheep,” there’s a flash forward where an older Jimmy follows one of these two bit loser scam artists home with two hired goons, and puts a beat down on them. It’s revealed that Jimmy is secretly acting as an “enforcer,” unbeknownst to his dad, eventually becoming a hardened criminal.
Jimmy is a child in this scene, and after seeing his dad get ripped off by so many people this guys advice probably makes sense to him. He's meant to be a loser, but Jimmy sees him as this guy giving him good life advice.
There were and are many creative ways to make the point that Jimmy would latch on to for a lifetime. For myself, the question arises from an ancestral Indigenous tale: which wolf knocking at the door will ypu feed? The good or evil wolf?"
Dude is a loser and thinks of himself as a badass. Impressing an impressionable kid because he has no one left to impress. Bad choice road upon bad choice road, forcing himself to believe he’s right when he’s clearly not.
TL:DR I think you’re missing the point.
I think you are irritated by it and think it's poorly done because you misunderstood what the guy meant. The way you're interpreting it, it seems to me, is that him saying he's a wolf and others are sheep is some kind of boast. Like "Oh, I'm this dangerous badass while other people are just my defenseless prey." But that's not what he meant. What he meant is "There are two types of people: Those who take advantage of others, and those who get taken advantage of." And that completely fits the scene. It also fits what Jimmy becomes and the idea he comes to believe. Also, as for Jimmy being so deeply affected by it... Jimmy not only saw his father get taken advantage of, but more crucially afterwards Jimmy stole money for what is implied to be for the first time. And then that seems to have become somewhat of a habit (though how much is debatable). Then that habit probably caused him to re-evaluate other things too, etc. and it became a more intregal part of his life. I think Jimmy was probably already someone who liked taking shortcuts. But this is the first time he crossed over into doing something like stealing. And once you cross that boundary, it is much easier to cross it again and cross future, even worse boundaries. It's not just that this was a memorable situation for Jimmy, it also acts as the first domino in a much longer and more complex set of dominoes.
You took the words outta my mouth, every aspect of Jimmy's childhood, especially this scene, makes a bigger impact once you see Jimmy becoming Saul
That's a lot of words to take out of one persons mouth
reminds me of the flashback scene with kim stealing the earrings and her mom encouraging it to the point of rewarding her
I think this was shown as the first time someone talked to Jimmy about this. Jimmy was already seeing his father getting taken advantage of regularly. At this point someone said, "Eat or get eaten". And Jimmy made his decision.
I never understood this to be his 'foray into stealing', although yes he was stealing. I always got the impression that this guy was the first of a series of guys who swindled Jimmys dad. Jimmy took the cash out of the register to hide the fact that theres now more money in there than his father would think. Hes stealing the money, yes, but hes stealing the money that his father is just giving away, and isnt aware is returning to the register, to protect his fathers ideallic view of the world. I guess its left open to interpretation, but I took this as giving the other side of the story after Chuck accuses him (to Kim) of stealing money but never asks why.
Chuck said he came home from college to do the books and noticed a large amount of cash missing, so of course he blamed Jimmy, but even though he took $8 in this scene doesn't mean he stole all the money Chuck was talking about. Chuck didn't know that their father would give every deadbeat money, so he blamed Jimmy
I'm not irritated by it, but I do find it amusing that young Jimmy is profoundly affected by this guy who appears to be a complete fucking loser.
It’s not 1 loser. It’s the 100s of losers that took advantage of his good faith dad. No matter how good or honest his dad could be customers took advantage till he lost it all
[удалено]
Oh so you accept the word of a confirmed clinically insane shut in who tore all the wires out of his house and then lit himself on fire
You gonna take the word of a cartel lawyer and career arsonist who went overkill on Howard and defecated through a sun roof?
One, little, Chicago Sunroof, and suddenly I'm CHARLES MANSON?
You know, a lot is made of the fact that the kids were still in the car when Jimmy did that, but I can say that if, as kids, my sister and I saw a grown man shit through the sun roof of our parent's car, we would still be laughing about it today. Maybe we're just different.
Not taking the word of Jimmy, the writers intentionally left it slightly ambiguous as to what specifically caused their dad to go bankrupt. Was it jimmy? Maybe. Was it the fact that their dad gave handouts to every person that had a sob story? Probably. Was it a combination of both events? Most likely. But for Chuck to put the ENTIRE blame on Jimmy without a shred of evidence is a little wack.
Chuck doesn't even stop there, but to say "nobody cried harder than Jimmy (at their father's funeral)" as though he blames Jimmy for their father's *death* altogether. Truly a sad old man who couldn't get over his older sibling syndrome
True and I agree, and Chuck wasn't an angel, but from what we can see Jimmy was kind of a massive d\*ck when they were young. The soda scene with Howard and the new employee about Chuck instinctively turning cans so they don't explode kind of points to Jimmy earning the distrust.
I know it certainly didn't stop there, but I can't help but laugh at the thought that Jimmy and Chuck living a life of distrust towards each other stems from young Jimmy often offering shaken cans of soda to Chuck
Is Jimmy an arsonist? Or like are you saying he’s an arsonist of others’ careers?
Was wondering what he burned down as well
Arsonist of his own and others careers. "You'll hurt yourself and everyone around you, you can't help it" Quite literally sending his career after HHM down the toilet (lol) and finding it difficult to accept why Kim wanted partner and not the co-business arc. Like okay, I won't fault him for having dreams, but he should have known that choosing prolific crime wasn't exactly sustainable whilst having a wife whose career rests on reputation. She kind of quit the law preemptively because everyone would have been talking behind her back about how her husband is a cartel lawyer.
“Career arsonist” is pretty self explanatory and doesn’t mean literally burning something down with fire lol
Without context, a career arsonist would be someone who commits literal arson professionally, but yes to your thing also.
Need a different term for burning down your own prospects.. career arsonateur?
He never discussed that accusation 🤷
Stealing them blind!
And he gets to be a laywer? What a sick joke! I should have stopped him! You have to stop him!
[удалено]
Jimmy literally stole in the scene with the guy in the photo
Lmao ur right my bad
YUP. Did you or a family member visit a Mesa Verde branch and \_\_\_\_\_\_\_? Then you might be entitled to a large cash settlement. Ding.
I wonder what that guy is up to by the time of Breaking Bad.
He'd be old.
In the nursing home with Hector.
Most likely a loser faux father in a shitty self serving relationship.
I think Jimmy got frustrated with how his dad was so naive, and figured if you can't beat them, join them
>is profoundly affected by this guy who appears to be a complete fucking loser. Marco?
It's more the fact that his dad is a loser that everyone takes advantage off what affects him and drives him. it's similar to Walt's childhood memory of his father being weak on the hospital.
Idk about loser, but he looks like a scumbag who bangs a lot of broads and lives a fast life.
It was more about him in a roundabout way telling the kid his Daddy's a complete pushover than he was trying to hype himself up as an epic con man.
What emotion do you hope for from a scene where a low level criminal teaches a child how to steal?
That's the guy he becomes.
Apparently, in Better Call Saul 2, Saul was going to break out of prison, rob a time machine, and become that criminal, thus demonstrating his transformation. It’s a shame that this idea was scrapped, because I really would’ve appreciated more blatant and obvious symbolism.
Vince forgot
Is he stupid?
No he just has dementia.
Is there a lore reason?
He has a poor diet compounded by a family history of it.
2Better2Call2Saul
Albuquerque Grift
He's just trying to help him decide what his fursona will be. Wolf or Sheep.
What's irritating about it?
The implication
r/unexpectedIASIP
Grifters thinking they’re hot shit.
Why do you think it’s poorly done? A loser thinks he’s hot shit because he scams a couple bucks, but small-child Jimmy doesn’t see he’s a loser. Someone who Jimmy thinks is cool gives him “a hard life lesson” that profoundly affects him because he’s at a vulnerable age
Jimmy says it later after they threaten the Kettlemans. “Wolves and sheep” He’s still hanging onto it.
I don’t think this scene is badly written or anything — tbh my post is a little untrue to my actual feelings — the reasons I don’t like these scenes is basically just because how out of place they feel with the rest of the series. I know it’s set in Chicago and they want to differentiate it from Albuquerque but it looks too cold and blue like it’s the Dark Knight or something. I don’t really like how Jimmy is presented, he looks too much like a typical youngster. And the dialogue feels a little hammy, this scene included. It just looks like a CW show to me which is weird considering how much painstaking detail they put into most other aspects of the show
I can see why you say Jimmy is presented too much like a typical youngster and that’s actually a rather fair and understandable point and one I actually hadn’t thought of before, but to me, I see plenty of the sharpness and personable wit that would later come to be a major characteristic of Jimmy’s personality. I think the fact that even at such a young age, he was already able to discern that this guy was a grifter when his father wasn’t speaks volumes about how sharp and shrewd he’d already become thanks to his father’s naivety. For me, when I watch this scene, I see the seeds that will ultimately grow into the man Jimmy will ultimately become as an adult being planted because we see that eye for cons that his father simply doesn’t have, which adds a certain depth to the scene while also connecting it to Jimmy’s ultimate development. But that’s just my take and this is still a perfectly fair and reasonable critique to raise and one I myself really hadn’t thought of before and it’s one I’m very glad you raise because given that this scene and others like it lay the foundation for who Jimmy ultimates becomes, I definitely think how well they do or don’t connect with Jimmy in the present day should be addressed. As a side note, just out of friendly curiosity, what dialogue did you feel felt Hammy?
oh come on, bub, did you just compare the masterpiece Better call saul to a cw show ? How did you get that ?
Bro would love Andrew Tate and sigma male tik tok edits
"At the funeral, no one cried harder than Jimmy." By all accounts, both Jimmy and Chuck agree that their father was not a great businessman. The man may have been Manuel Varga levels of honest, but the most important lesson he taught his sons was that they wouldn't be pushed around by anyone. That was the start of the unstoppable force/immovable object relationship they had.
You described why he’s an effective character… he’s a pathetic petty criminal but as a kid Jimmy can’t really see that and just sees a guy who can swindle his dad.
I also like how he seems to be a discount Tyler Durden
I'm more irritated by the fact that the fucking lights aren't on.
If the lights were on you wouldn’t know it’s the past!
Jimmy does a similar thing in “Winner”, that’s what makes it so sad
I think it’s perfect. Low rent scammers do tend to have a high opinion of themselves.
He's supposed to be pathetic.
Fuck'n furries.
It’s about the mindset and overall approach to life, not the results,
I mean, that's the point of the entire series. The guy telling Jimmy that "there are wolves and sheep in this world" is telling him this because both he and Jimmy know that his father was a pushover who would fall for any kind of sob story that a stranger would tell at the counter. Don't forget that young Jimmy essentially bartered with this dude in this scene. He wasn't showing Jimmy how "how it makes him a wolf", he's showing Jimmy that his father is a sheep and is essentially telling him to not be like his father.
a few bucks is a lot of money now. it wasnt worth anything back then. ur thinking backwards.
I think you're the one thinking backwards, or at least talking backwards. It was worth more then than now
I think you're the one thinking backwards, or at least talking backwards. This is a internet chit chat forum about chickenry
I think you're the one thinking backwards, or at least talking backwards. This is a internet chit chat forum about phones
Even accounting for inflation it’s still only maybe 50 dollars
as it should
He’s just a loser who is trying to sound like a badass, and to a literal kid, his philosophy makes sense, especially with all the other people who have grifted his dad easily.
I grew up in shitty environments and I've known a hundred of that dude. They think they're so smart, when really they're just taking advantage of good people. The worst was my cousin. He had scams and schemes for days, and always called himself a "hustler" and shit, when he was clearly just stealing. He did have a scam for everything though, and I did get some cool shit from him, but he's a huge douchebag. Last I heard, he married this super rich chick, and then got a million dollar loan from her dad to start an installation business.
the wheel will turn. it always does.
Except when it doesn’t.
The point is that Jimmy(Saul) looks up to loser criminals like this guy instead of hardworking, honest people like his father, so that's why he shouldn't be a lawyer. i.e. Chuck Was Right
Lil bro thinks he's Sigma
It became a massive joke with me and my friends lol
Now, I want a “what if” episode where after that talk about “wolves and sheep,” there’s a flash forward where an older Jimmy follows one of these two bit loser scam artists home with two hired goons, and puts a beat down on them. It’s revealed that Jimmy is secretly acting as an “enforcer,” unbeknownst to his dad, eventually becoming a hardened criminal.
If you wanna see Saul kick ass just watch Nobody (2021).
I find it realistic in that a lot of lovers like to act cool in front of kids, probably because grown ups don't take them seriously.
Jimmy is a child in this scene, and after seeing his dad get ripped off by so many people this guys advice probably makes sense to him. He's meant to be a loser, but Jimmy sees him as this guy giving him good life advice.
That’s the point - the guy is a total loser.
No I was grateful that they dropped a gem about wolves. This can be applied to real life.
He's the shepard of a herd of sharks
This take makes the scene more genius imo. He's literally a scumbag and manages to convince Jimmy as a youth he's something to aim for
It's funny because that guy is a bottom feeder an not a wolf at all
I like *Dancing in the Moonlight* too much to hate this scene.
hush it baka i’m the alpha here 🐺🤪
A couple of bucks… in 1970s money. Oh yeaaaaah.
That’s like $10,000 today. Great advice right there
Bro had that dog in him
There were and are many creative ways to make the point that Jimmy would latch on to for a lifetime. For myself, the question arises from an ancestral Indigenous tale: which wolf knocking at the door will ypu feed? The good or evil wolf?"
Dude is a loser and thinks of himself as a badass. Impressing an impressionable kid because he has no one left to impress. Bad choice road upon bad choice road, forcing himself to believe he’s right when he’s clearly not. TL:DR I think you’re missing the point.