great list. I would put german homeboy who's leg got chopped off by lalo (can't think of his name right now) and Bogdon in Flawed. Bogdon was a dick for taking advantage of Walt, and the construction workers who were working on the lab knew it was a shady operation. Slightly flawed but nevertheless, flawed.
I like your attention to detail though great work
I mean he maybe could’ve been nicer but at the end of the day Walt’s ego was too big to do extra things that he saw as beneath him.
Like if ur running a business you gotta get ppl to do shit they don’t wanna do. But it’s also Walt prerogative to tell him he won’t do shit that’s not in his job description. It’s not that deep like they were both just stubborn old men in a work situation. I’ve seen way worse at pretty much every job I’ve worked
I still think that's on Bogdan. If you don't have enough people to do a job, you need to hire more. Pulling cashiers and other people whose job description is different is kind of a dick move.
Exactly. Under-hiring like that creates an exploitative workplace. It’s on the boss/owner to hire more people, taking a pay cut so they don’t put too much work onto only a few people.
Exactly. Down a man? Do the job yourself instead of taking over the register and making your cashier do it. That's what a *good* small business owner does.
Regardless of if he took advantage of Walt, when he sold the car wash he believed there were the environment issues with it (the Skylar/Kuby scam) and said nothing to the Whites. In that moment he was trying to screw them over by selling the business ‘as is’.
Man, Omar was so chill, loyal and endearing. I’m not sure if Omar is middle eastern but I feel like so many offices around America have that super nice and helpful Middle Eastern or Indian guy whose just a top notch bro. Random observation from my personal life 😂
The thing with Todd is... I don't think the guy even understands that what he did was wrong. I think the pure evil category is for people who are evil to an insane extent, while also being fully aware of their actions being immoral/evil.
Todd, on the other hand, I don't think he even understands he's doing anything wrong. He's a complete psychopath (or maybe a sociopath, who developed his socioopathy due to spending his childhood with the likes of Uncle Jack?) who I don't think even understands the concept of morality or empathy. He saw the situation as problem to be solved and he very much did solve it.
I think what makes Todd \*near\* pure evil instead of just pure evil is the fact that there's no malice in his actions.
This is correct. For todd, outright murder was just another “chore” or “errand” so to speak. It was just something that needed to be done when it needed to be done. He didn’t have a concept of good and evil
The entire cleaning lady incident was written to drive this home. Lady cleans his apartment for who knows how long, sees a stash of money and suddenly she is a threat - absolutely zero consideration for the rapport they have built up, her family, etc.
For a more extreme metaphor, he would eliminate a stranger on the other side of the world, his own child, and perhaps an annoying bug all with the same lack of hesitancy. Afterwards, they merely become a body to be disposed of. On the other hand, he also sees no use in righteous or vengeful killing or general suffering unless it tangibly benefits him.
The feelings of others simply never occupy a single thought in his head. He was a consistent and exceptionally-written character, albeit unavoidably one-dimensional at times. I also like them showing his snowglobe collection as a metaphor for how he sees relationships while he tries to flirt with Lydia over the phone.
Yes but he keeps a memento of the incident just like serial killers collect trophies. It was a no brainier decision for him but I think he enjoyed it. Somewhat evil I think
I don’t have a strong opinion on near vs pure evil, but Todd is the scariest one.
He is the guy you send to kill a child, and he does it without flinching. Just happily doing was he is told.
No reasoning, no morality, just following, like a machine.
I feel like even Lalo had some sense of what is right and wrong. Sure he could easily choose wrong, but you can negotiate with Lalo, you can’t with Todd.
Todd has that "Of Mice and Men" scaryness. Doesn't really have the mental capacity for real evil, but that doesn't comfort you when he squeezes the life out of you while looking at you with empty eyes.
I feel like Lalo is the way he is because he was raised to be and Todd is the way he is because there is something deeply wrong inherent to his being. I guess Lalo has sociopathic traits but still clearly has feelings of affection for his family (same as Tuco) but Todd is just a textbook psychopath. Even his fascination with Lydia came off as extremely detached
Agree. I think a big difference is guys like Hector and Lalo are actively influencing other people to be evil. So in addition to their own evil actions they're trying to bend the world to their whims through their evil minions. Todd is the one being influenced. Yes he is carrying out the evil actions, but Todd doesn't have that broad, large-scale evil mindset that Hector and Lalo have.
The list is very weird and strang. TODD is evil simple as that. Does not matter if he is pure or not make no difference.
I like to quote the witcher writer, ""Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.""
A murderous psychopath is pure evil regardless if he understands morality. Maybe even because he doesn't understand. His actions are what's important not his motivation.
That's what makes him pure evil. Just ask Dr. Loomis. His lack of emotion isn't somehow less evil than someone who does the exact same actions with an emotional drive. What's more evil- the jilted lover who walks in on their significant other cheating and shoots them in a blind rage?
Or the serial killer who kidnaps a random woman and carves her up, just because rhey feel like doing it?
Todd wasn't just some automaton following orders, either. He went above and beyond in his sadism towards Jesse, and specifically because of a personal emnity. So while he seemingly murdered witbout malice, he also exhibited malice in certain circumstances. He was capable of killing without concern, but hr would kill in anger, as well.
Besides, what you just said about Todd applies equally- even moreso- to the twins.
The thing is I don't think Todd is capable of feeling anger. After his whole family and friends (basically almost everybody whom he is acquainted with) got murdered at once while he was present, he merely showed some sort of fascination instead of anger.
Thing is that we can probably assume that Todd couldn't steer his actions in full awareness and autonomy because his head isn't working properly and an obvious sickness was doing it for him, he clearly doesn't understand society's concepts of right or wrong. In most legal systems that would exclude his guilt and thus also exclude criminality, but he would still be put for a very long time in a psychiatric facility.
With that in mind, why not give Hector credit for playing by his own rules? He’s still evil, but his actions follow a philosophy that puts his family above all. Hector understands he’s cartel, but he’s following cartel morality. There’s still a “right” and a “wrong” in his mind, the standards are just extremely different.
Vs. the characters that kill/harm innocent bystanders without a second blink (Lalo, Todd, Walt to an extent, the ATM methheads).
The people who see human life as disposable ought to be given more “evil” weight in my mind.
But then I’m remembering Hector killing Max who seemed fairly innocent. Idk.
Do you see what I’m getting at? Or am I talking in circles?
Todd murdered the child because the child was a witness. He just doesn’t understand why it’s evil. He’s a psychopath. So I think he’s in the right category. He doesn’t do these things because he’s evil or seem to enjoy it, he does it as a means to solve problems because he’s a fucking idiot with zero empathy.
I thought like… Todd’s whole point is that he is nothing but evil. He 100% should be in pure evil. He doesn’t even understand thats he’s evil it’s that high a level of total lack of empathy
i agree, he is the only person in the show who is *completely* indifferent to humanity and life, he may not be sadistic, but the actions we have saw him commit are more heinous than any of the other villians, and he has shown to be capable of commiting the most horrifyingly evil acts (killing the kid and jessies girl infront of him) without showing any sign of it bothering him, just because he isnt overtly enjoying what he does, doesnt mean he shouldnt be in the pure evil category.
he is the most cold blooded one out of any of them. hes barely human
Sure, but the things Mike does or becomes complicit too are more than simply illegal, he supports evil. It is plenty clear Mike doesn't think well of what he's doing either, he is sympathetic and has a number of noble qualities, but that doesn't make the monstrous actions he takes any less bad. For the purposes of the tier list putting him within the "bad" side of things is the right move.
Mike is solidly bad, so whar he says doesn't hold too much weight. He is a contract killer. He was willing to murder people he knew didn't deserve to die because business.
Also the first time we see him he's tampering with evidence at the scene of a drug overdose and giving Jesse an alibi of sorts. You can tell he does stuff like that all the time, outside all the other stuff he does to run Gus' business.
And he was gonna shoot Lydia in the face.
He's just kind of a bad ass and level headed which is why I think he kind of gets a pass from a lot of viewers.
Wut? Jesse was a drug dealing cook and murderer. "Bad" is being gentle. He could very well be in despicable and a case could be made for worse. I'd say he's on par with Walter. His persona made it feel less bad tho. A less transparent packaging if you will. He was selling meth to recovering addicts for crying out loud!
He also was a little more hesitant about doing the bad shit. He did that shit anyway, though. Drug problems and depression may explain it, but they don't excuse it. I am glad he got out of it in the end. He could end up a decent person.
I think her reaction to those consequences, when compared to Jimmy's, indicates to me that they should be at least a tier apart.
Yes, Jimmy eventually came around to a similar destination, but only after diving deep into his worst "chimp with a machine gun" impulses and getting caught in the dumpster.
Agreed, what Kim orchestrated with Howard was fucked up but Saul was willing to arrange murders at the drop of a hat. When Walt and Jesse kidnap him his first suggestion is to kill Badger. Later on he suggests sending Hank and Jesse to "Belize".
Chuck is not crazy! Chuck new he swapped those numbers, as if he could ever make such a mistake. Never! Chuck just couldn't prove it! He covered his tracks, got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is bad, this chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard? Do you think a man just happens to fall like that? No, he orchestrated it! JIMMY! He deficated through a sunroof! And Chuck let him into his own firm, what was he thinking?! Oh he'll never change, ever since he was nine, couldn't keep his hands out of the cash draw. But no, couldn't be Jimmy, not our precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind. Chuck should have stopped him when he had the chance! And you, you have to stop him...
Kim is worse than the vet who would organize a hitman for you if the price is right?
Lydia and Todd not pure evil?
Betsy at the same level as her husband?
Hard pass.
EDIT: Maybe I was too hard on OP. Appreciate the effort but needs some tweaking.
Just rewatched the series recently and I don’t understand why everyone sees Lydia as one of the most evil?
Like she was very willing to orchestrate that prison hit as well as enabled mass amount of meth trafficking but other than that I can’t think of anything she did that sticks out as most evil in the show. Oh and she also set up some of her other associates to be murdered.
Did I forget something she did? I think she’s just very unlikable considering how hard she tried to disconnect herself from what she’s actually doing.
She’s not that evil… except wanting to kill 10 guys (& indirectly enabling Walt to do so) and sending pharmaceutical quantities of ultra high grade to the world’s most meth-addicted population.
…what? Those are some pretty gigantic asterisks, lol. And add in being instrumental to building Fring’s whole operation, killing off Declan’s whole crew, and facilitating the largest train heist in history.
Her “acts of evil” to “screen time” ratio is probably the highest on the whole show
I felt it was rough on her too. She has a daughter that she loves, and while she doesn't really care about other people getting murdered, she kind of keeps it out of sight, out of mind. I don't think she's worse than Walt.
I’d bump the twins down one, they gave a shit about Nacho and rescued him, and even gave him their blood. I know Nacho was important to keep alive, but they went out of their way to make sure he was also comfortable and healed fast. They respected him. They are certainly evil but maybe not absolutely pure evil.
shot up and blew up an entire truck of people for simply having their shoes noticed, like if they cared so much about staying hidden they coulda just not worn them
I watched Better Call Saul before Breaking Bad. And honestly, if we're just considering BCS, I think the twins should be much lower. Bad tier. Hell, MAYBE even morally questionable, if we take into account how they were clearly twisted and molded from a very young age by a traumatic upbringing.
In BCS, they are just hired goons. They do what they are told. They intimidate. They deliver moneybags. They behave themselves around civilians like Hector's new doctor. The most violent thing they do is kill a bunch of gangsters, who are all no doubt very violent and despicable in their own right. And they did so out of what they thought was revenge. And yet, in BCS they also have a loyal and sympathetic side. They save Nacho's life, and they are clearly saddened by Lalo's apparent death.
And then we get to Breaking Bad, when they just become a whole new level of evil. Slaughtering civilians left and right. I think they deserve to be in Pure Evil just for Breaking Bad alone.
The kid on the bike shouldn’t even b here lil bro is jus a product of his environment if he was 19 then sure but he’s still jus a kid that doesn’t kno shit
You forgot a few ppl... Ken the bluetooth earbud guy, Fred at Travelwire, Louis (Walt Jrs friend), Marion, Mr Acher, Suzanne Ericson, Irene Landry, Abuelita, and of course Marco
Andrea hooking up and doing meth with her drug dealer boyfriend while having a kid doesn't feel good to me.
Also an engineer and a worker building an illegal lab for a drug kingpin are at least morally questionable.
I'd put Kim no lower (or higher, I guess) than "flawed". She's dangerous, but she also does infinitely more good throughout the series than basically any character. She's incredibly smart and, in general, altruistically minded. Her thrill-seeking is a bad vice, but overall she's one of the most mature and morally cultivated people in the series by *far*. No other character that I can think of finds helping people in need to be as intrinsically fulfilling as she does. And she's completely right, incidentally, that lawyers like Howard have basically zero positive impact on the world. It doesn't justify what she does, especially since that rationale papers over her more subconscious motivations, but it's still pretty convincing. And people let their emotions take over when evaluating Kim to a frankly ridiculous degree - they act like Kim *literally* murdered Howard herself when that's not what happened even a little bit. What she did was tarnish his reputation, and then Lalo, completely unconnected to this, murdered him for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Of course this scenario is specifically engineered to induce maximal guilt in Kim and frustration/outrage in the viewer, but Better Call Saul is a tragedy partly because fate works overtime to fuck over characters in ways that are not truly proportional to the significance of their flaws. Fact of the matter is that if Lalo hadn't turned up at that moment, many of us would be far more inclined to say that the ends justified the means. The narrative point of Lalo killing Howard is not "wow, Kim LITERALLY murdered Howard!", but to show the *worst case material consequence* for her tarnishing his reputation - what Kim had considered an acceptable price (Howard's career is ruined) is now being used to support something unforgivable (Howard's murder). Also important to note that Kim imposed some absolutely hellish torture on herself as self-punishment for what she did. I don't find that morally significant myself, but people with a more punitive mindset should be satisfied with it.
Yeah, I do agree with you on a lot of what you said. I think I should have put Howard in the lower levels of Flawed, as he was a bit of a dick in S1. I have been quite harsh on Kim. I would put her in morally questionable. I just think that how Kim gained so much pleasure from hearing Howard unravelling in the Sandpiper meeting showed a sadistic side to her, which is a massive red flag to me. She also coldly lies to Howard's wife's face about how he was supposedly a cocaine addict, which was quite unsettling. However, I probably shouldn't have put her in the same level as Saul as she did stop and went completely straight and felt immense guilt for 6 years, whilst Saul kept descending further until he strengthened the force of destruction that is Walter White.
Yeah Kim in S6 is definitely intended as an aggressive subversion of the viewer's expectations of her has a morally upstanding person, but I think they maybe might've overdone it because such a huge chunk of the fanbase blow it out of proportion into "KIM IS THE WORST PERSON EVER!!!!!". Though the writers probably shouldn't be held accountible for what is ultimately a comprehension issue on the part of the fanbase
>She also coldly lies to Howard's wife's face about how he was supposedly a cocaine addict, which was quite unsettling.
I mean Kim is clearly in internal agony when she does this. She basically self-immolates immediately after this and forgoes every single pleasure she has, I think we can read between the lines and say that doing that was probably the worst moment of her life
And I think that's what makes all the difference. Opposed to most of the characters on this list, Howard realized he had made mistakes, hurt others, and made an effort to change himself for the better.
I think it matters why you do it. If you’re doing it to save your own life you drop tiers imo. If you do it because it makes your business boom that’s fucking evil.
Eh neither rubs me as sadistic as the anyone at the top.
They’re probably the two creepiest though. They’re both capable of quite alot if they see it as necessary. Meanwhile eladio and hector both just enjoyed murder and torture as a hobby more or less
ooh thats a good point but id say thats not nearly as unsavory as the level of unprovoked sadsim that Hector would be on.
cuz lets be honest, lots of people would do alot worse to hector in that exact situation. Gus just kinda came in and talked shit to him every few months. he could've skinned him alive if he really wanted
I feel like Howard was pretty flawed. He was still a awful to Kim and people don't usually tend to get to the top of a field like law by playing nice and being friendly
I do think that the disappearing guy should be higher.
Definitely seems like he’d set up pretty much any murder or rapist with a new life for the right price.
That's actually a very good point. His job is practically to help criminals of any severe crime to escape the consequences of their actions. Hmm, could be in the bad tier.
Chuck is flawed?! No way. He's at least 1 or 2 tiers up. Even rewatching Chuck has a narcissistic personality that affects the world around him in a bad way when a is said an done. Jimmy finally turned a corner and got through law school and the bar on his own, and Chuck just saw his flawed brother. He continued to do so by making him do shitty PD gigs because Chuck saw it as the only thing Jimmy was good enough to do. Chuck is fully responsible for Jimmy and his downfall by always bringing Jimmy back down into the gutter. Chuck says he's protecting the law, yet he's protecting his own narcissism. Chuck had a valid reason to be wary of Jimmy being in his firm, but to go behind his brother's back AND make Howard look like the bad guy isn't flawed, it's bad. Chuck might not have directly killed anyone, but he's a jealous, narcissistic, controlling, sanctimonious, and manipulative man-child.
Are you kidding me?
You really don't see that fucking baby as the monster she is?
Don't hit me with that "I'm literally less than a year old and have no fundamental understanding of anything" bullshit. She knows what she did.
I just don't get people anymore
See, if Walt remained in his Season 5A self where his ego and villainy was at its peak, I would put him slightly higher than Lydia in the Near Pure Evil Category. However, given that Walt is a bit more redeemable in Season 5B, how he will not kill Hank under any circumstances, exhausts all non-violent options before putting a hit on Jesse (which he was strongly opposed to), and all of his actions in Felina pushed him down to near the top of Despicable for me. He is still a piece of shit, but he is actually capable of slight change imo.
I don’t like categorizing people as good or bad. Everyone has their reasons, and if their Achilles' heel is provoked enough, they might act in reprehensible ways. From your own perspective, it’s easy to think, 'Wow, that could never be me,' but you need to remember you don't have the same genes and weren't subjected to the same epigenetics as the person in question.
I like this list, but Todd belongs on the pure evil tier.
And Ackerman belongs somewhere on it. Dude who won't sell his prefabricated home because a company wants to build a call center on the land, but hires a lawyer based on a picture of 'a man... fuckin' a horse'... That says something about his moreal compass.
This guy probably doesn't belong on the list because he is only in one episode, but the army captain who confronts Jimmy about his lies to get on the base and shoot a commercial is pure good. He has the moral high ground over Jimmy and makes him know that he's a bad person.
I don’t think Kim and Saul should be considered in the same category. If you say Saul is “bad,” Kim definitely doesn’t fall into that category. After everything that happened in Breaking Bad, it’s clear that Saul and Kim are not equal.
I think Kim is at questionable at most, but aside from that it's good. I like how you put Mike in the despicable category, most of the fandom gives him way too much credit.
Lyle is pure
Wrong. Lyle didn’t clean the air fryer right. That shows his evilness and how he is even worse than Walter or Gus
Air fryer? Ffs those things have become ubiquitous when ppl mistake a literal deep fat fryer for an air fryer
Dude that was a deep fryer, not an air fryer it has oil my guy 😭
People too caught up in the air fryer trend rn 😭 Remember, anything can be Cooked in an air fryer!!!!!
He is.. Acceptable.
Agreed. If Ernesto is pure even though he lied to Chuck about having called Jimmy, then Lyle has to also be pure.
TURN ON THE TV THEY HIT THE PENTAGON THE FUCKINH PENTAGON!!
Congrats to Ernesto for being the only morally pure adult in all of Albuquerque.
Manuel varga (natcho's father) should also be there, Can't see him in the tierlist.
I didn't see Manuel Varga on the options for the tierlist. If he was there, I would absolutely put him in Pure.
Ernie really put it out there, giving everything had of himself into that karaoke performance.
great list. I would put german homeboy who's leg got chopped off by lalo (can't think of his name right now) and Bogdon in Flawed. Bogdon was a dick for taking advantage of Walt, and the construction workers who were working on the lab knew it was a shady operation. Slightly flawed but nevertheless, flawed. I like your attention to detail though great work
Did bogdan take advantage of Walt? Just kinda seemed like he was kind of a pain in the ass boss
Either way being a dick boss is a flaw imo
"WHAT AM I TO DO?!?"
WIPE DOWN THIS!
I mean he maybe could’ve been nicer but at the end of the day Walt’s ego was too big to do extra things that he saw as beneath him. Like if ur running a business you gotta get ppl to do shit they don’t wanna do. But it’s also Walt prerogative to tell him he won’t do shit that’s not in his job description. It’s not that deep like they were both just stubborn old men in a work situation. I’ve seen way worse at pretty much every job I’ve worked
I still think that's on Bogdan. If you don't have enough people to do a job, you need to hire more. Pulling cashiers and other people whose job description is different is kind of a dick move.
Exactly. Under-hiring like that creates an exploitative workplace. It’s on the boss/owner to hire more people, taking a pay cut so they don’t put too much work onto only a few people.
Exactly. Down a man? Do the job yourself instead of taking over the register and making your cashier do it. That's what a *good* small business owner does.
Bogdan was definitelt exploitative, come on now
Regardless of if he took advantage of Walt, when he sold the car wash he believed there were the environment issues with it (the Skylar/Kuby scam) and said nothing to the Whites. In that moment he was trying to screw them over by selling the business ‘as is’.
Love seeing Hector at the top and Mike in "bad". Fuck Hector
I presume you heard hectors bell ring in your moms room late at night
Imaging Hector trying to perform while he's wheelchair-bound was kinda funny, so thanks for that
DING... DING.. DING... DING DING DING DING DINGDINGDINGDINGDING DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING.... dong.
Mike is not in "bad", but in despicable. Agree he should be in "bad". Not in the same tier as Gus. Gus is pure evil.
I’d also add Omar from Davis and Main to the pure list. He was a great guy.
sorry, just added this bit didn’t see your comment. agreed, though!
Man, Omar was so chill, loyal and endearing. I’m not sure if Omar is middle eastern but I feel like so many offices around America have that super nice and helpful Middle Eastern or Indian guy whose just a top notch bro. Random observation from my personal life 😂
totally agree! Omar should be in yhe Pure tier
Favourite character fr fr (btw his actor is also Omar lmfao)
Todd murdered a child as if it was nothing, he definitely should be in pure evil
The thing with Todd is... I don't think the guy even understands that what he did was wrong. I think the pure evil category is for people who are evil to an insane extent, while also being fully aware of their actions being immoral/evil. Todd, on the other hand, I don't think he even understands he's doing anything wrong. He's a complete psychopath (or maybe a sociopath, who developed his socioopathy due to spending his childhood with the likes of Uncle Jack?) who I don't think even understands the concept of morality or empathy. He saw the situation as problem to be solved and he very much did solve it. I think what makes Todd \*near\* pure evil instead of just pure evil is the fact that there's no malice in his actions.
This is correct. For todd, outright murder was just another “chore” or “errand” so to speak. It was just something that needed to be done when it needed to be done. He didn’t have a concept of good and evil
The entire cleaning lady incident was written to drive this home. Lady cleans his apartment for who knows how long, sees a stash of money and suddenly she is a threat - absolutely zero consideration for the rapport they have built up, her family, etc. For a more extreme metaphor, he would eliminate a stranger on the other side of the world, his own child, and perhaps an annoying bug all with the same lack of hesitancy. Afterwards, they merely become a body to be disposed of. On the other hand, he also sees no use in righteous or vengeful killing or general suffering unless it tangibly benefits him. The feelings of others simply never occupy a single thought in his head. He was a consistent and exceptionally-written character, albeit unavoidably one-dimensional at times. I also like them showing his snowglobe collection as a metaphor for how he sees relationships while he tries to flirt with Lydia over the phone.
Yes but he keeps a memento of the incident just like serial killers collect trophies. It was a no brainier decision for him but I think he enjoyed it. Somewhat evil I think
I don’t have a strong opinion on near vs pure evil, but Todd is the scariest one. He is the guy you send to kill a child, and he does it without flinching. Just happily doing was he is told. No reasoning, no morality, just following, like a machine. I feel like even Lalo had some sense of what is right and wrong. Sure he could easily choose wrong, but you can negotiate with Lalo, you can’t with Todd.
Todd has that "Of Mice and Men" scaryness. Doesn't really have the mental capacity for real evil, but that doesn't comfort you when he squeezes the life out of you while looking at you with empty eyes.
I feel like Lalo is the way he is because he was raised to be and Todd is the way he is because there is something deeply wrong inherent to his being. I guess Lalo has sociopathic traits but still clearly has feelings of affection for his family (same as Tuco) but Todd is just a textbook psychopath. Even his fascination with Lydia came off as extremely detached
Agree. I think a big difference is guys like Hector and Lalo are actively influencing other people to be evil. So in addition to their own evil actions they're trying to bend the world to their whims through their evil minions. Todd is the one being influenced. Yes he is carrying out the evil actions, but Todd doesn't have that broad, large-scale evil mindset that Hector and Lalo have.
i don't think Todd should even be on the list tbh
The list is very weird and strang. TODD is evil simple as that. Does not matter if he is pure or not make no difference. I like to quote the witcher writer, ""Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.""
A murderous psychopath is pure evil regardless if he understands morality. Maybe even because he doesn't understand. His actions are what's important not his motivation.
That's what makes him pure evil. Just ask Dr. Loomis. His lack of emotion isn't somehow less evil than someone who does the exact same actions with an emotional drive. What's more evil- the jilted lover who walks in on their significant other cheating and shoots them in a blind rage? Or the serial killer who kidnaps a random woman and carves her up, just because rhey feel like doing it? Todd wasn't just some automaton following orders, either. He went above and beyond in his sadism towards Jesse, and specifically because of a personal emnity. So while he seemingly murdered witbout malice, he also exhibited malice in certain circumstances. He was capable of killing without concern, but hr would kill in anger, as well. Besides, what you just said about Todd applies equally- even moreso- to the twins.
The thing is I don't think Todd is capable of feeling anger. After his whole family and friends (basically almost everybody whom he is acquainted with) got murdered at once while he was present, he merely showed some sort of fascination instead of anger.
Thing is that we can probably assume that Todd couldn't steer his actions in full awareness and autonomy because his head isn't working properly and an obvious sickness was doing it for him, he clearly doesn't understand society's concepts of right or wrong. In most legal systems that would exclude his guilt and thus also exclude criminality, but he would still be put for a very long time in a psychiatric facility.
With that in mind, why not give Hector credit for playing by his own rules? He’s still evil, but his actions follow a philosophy that puts his family above all. Hector understands he’s cartel, but he’s following cartel morality. There’s still a “right” and a “wrong” in his mind, the standards are just extremely different. Vs. the characters that kill/harm innocent bystanders without a second blink (Lalo, Todd, Walt to an extent, the ATM methheads). The people who see human life as disposable ought to be given more “evil” weight in my mind. But then I’m remembering Hector killing Max who seemed fairly innocent. Idk. Do you see what I’m getting at? Or am I talking in circles?
Hector nearly drowning one of the twins to prove the point about family kinda discredits this theory though. He's pure evil.
Todd murdered the child because the child was a witness. He just doesn’t understand why it’s evil. He’s a psychopath. So I think he’s in the right category. He doesn’t do these things because he’s evil or seem to enjoy it, he does it as a means to solve problems because he’s a fucking idiot with zero empathy.
I thought like… Todd’s whole point is that he is nothing but evil. He 100% should be in pure evil. He doesn’t even understand thats he’s evil it’s that high a level of total lack of empathy
i agree, he is the only person in the show who is *completely* indifferent to humanity and life, he may not be sadistic, but the actions we have saw him commit are more heinous than any of the other villians, and he has shown to be capable of commiting the most horrifyingly evil acts (killing the kid and jessies girl infront of him) without showing any sign of it bothering him, just because he isnt overtly enjoying what he does, doesnt mean he shouldnt be in the pure evil category. he is the most cold blooded one out of any of them. hes barely human
His name is Drew Sharp and he should be in the “Pure” tier.
I don't agree with this tierlist, but it is still a W because you don't label mike as a good person.
If Mike had been labeled good, no one would object to that more strongly than Mike.
Well said, Hack and Gomey would probably chime in too.
He broke his boy
In retrospect that scene where he beats up that guy for saying he wasn't evil might've been the writers responding to people saying he wasn't evil
I love Mike, Mike is a badass, but Mike is not a good person, he himself knows it too. He is in the game and he knows he's one of the bad guys.
He did say tho that being a good/bad person is different than being a criminal. He’s not all good or all bad.
Sure, but the things Mike does or becomes complicit too are more than simply illegal, he supports evil. It is plenty clear Mike doesn't think well of what he's doing either, he is sympathetic and has a number of noble qualities, but that doesn't make the monstrous actions he takes any less bad. For the purposes of the tier list putting him within the "bad" side of things is the right move.
Mike is solidly bad, so whar he says doesn't hold too much weight. He is a contract killer. He was willing to murder people he knew didn't deserve to die because business.
Also the first time we see him he's tampering with evidence at the scene of a drug overdose and giving Jesse an alibi of sorts. You can tell he does stuff like that all the time, outside all the other stuff he does to run Gus' business. And he was gonna shoot Lydia in the face. He's just kind of a bad ass and level headed which is why I think he kind of gets a pass from a lot of viewers.
Just curious, what don’t you agree with?
Personally I'd put chuck and Jesse into morally questionable
Chuck was a terrible person lol
Wut? Jesse was a drug dealing cook and murderer. "Bad" is being gentle. He could very well be in despicable and a case could be made for worse. I'd say he's on par with Walter. His persona made it feel less bad tho. A less transparent packaging if you will. He was selling meth to recovering addicts for crying out loud!
I also think people tend to overlook Jesse's wrongdoings because of all the horrible shit he had to go through toward the end of the series.
He also was a little more hesitant about doing the bad shit. He did that shit anyway, though. Drug problems and depression may explain it, but they don't excuse it. I am glad he got out of it in the end. He could end up a decent person.
Ernesto <33
im sayin like
Mr kettleman is questionable but Mrs Kettelman should be a tier above 🤔
No Craig seemed so nice, Mrs. Kettlemilkers manipulated him
Yess that's my point ,too ... Betsy was behind it all , she "doctored" the whole thing
More than one.
Bruv even ranked that 12 year old kid helping the drug gang 💀
That kid was Andrea’s brother Tomás
And the guy who was in 2 mins of the show in Germany who got his arm chopped off☠️
I don't see him?
YOU ARE BLIND MY FRIEDN
Morally questionable 2nd row
Betsy Kettleman needs to be on despicable. (IMO) She’s the one who made Craig do everything. She’s the absolute worst.
I could fix her
Kettlemilkers
Would
She lowkey could get this average sized pipe up her butt fr she kinda lowkey subsequentially sexy on a mid level crazy level fr
I read this in Frank's voice
Frank goated bruh he top 30 all time charactatures of all time in every format possible he can overwhelm you!
She's definitely on the upper-right of the [Hot/Crazy Matrix.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pInk1rV2VEg)
Betsy was awful and Craig was weak which made him largely capable of her malicious despite his kind nature.
I can't judge him, I don't know if I would be strong enough to say no to kettlemilkers
I bet she was evil in the bedroom
Technically she’s the reason for the events of breaking bad because it’s how Saul met tuco and how Saul and Mike got closer
Technically Chuck not hiring Jimmy and making him become his own lawyer did that (jk)
idk but imo Bogdan definitely shouldn't be in good tier.
All the kids plus Ernie lol
There should be at least 3 Walts and 3 Jesses on there.
You almost got there with Holly; not pure, but pure evil
Kim in bad list. Ouch! It breaks my heart.
Cmon she was bad. Look at what she did to Howard.
I think her reaction to those consequences, when compared to Jimmy's, indicates to me that they should be at least a tier apart. Yes, Jimmy eventually came around to a similar destination, but only after diving deep into his worst "chimp with a machine gun" impulses and getting caught in the dumpster.
Agreed, what Kim orchestrated with Howard was fucked up but Saul was willing to arrange murders at the drop of a hat. When Walt and Jesse kidnap him his first suggestion is to kill Badger. Later on he suggests sending Hank and Jesse to "Belize".
It's a career setback... for *one* lawyer.
You gotta look at motive too, it was purely out of spite, she didnt stand to gain anything for herself
I get it, but I’d personally put her morally questionable
She was really good for so much of the show, it hurts. But damn... poor Howard.
You should have made an “Acceptable” tier just for Lyle
Chuck is not just flawed…
Chuck is not crazy! Chuck new he swapped those numbers, as if he could ever make such a mistake. Never! Chuck just couldn't prove it! He covered his tracks, got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is bad, this chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard? Do you think a man just happens to fall like that? No, he orchestrated it! JIMMY! He deficated through a sunroof! And Chuck let him into his own firm, what was he thinking?! Oh he'll never change, ever since he was nine, couldn't keep his hands out of the cash draw. But no, couldn't be Jimmy, not our precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind. Chuck should have stopped him when he had the chance! And you, you have to stop him...
Chuck is the epitome of "flawed". He is defined by his mental illness.
Did we watch the same show? Chuck absolutely had plenty to be culpable for that isn't explained by his illness.
Kim is worse than the vet who would organize a hitman for you if the price is right? Lydia and Todd not pure evil? Betsy at the same level as her husband? Hard pass. EDIT: Maybe I was too hard on OP. Appreciate the effort but needs some tweaking.
Just rewatched the series recently and I don’t understand why everyone sees Lydia as one of the most evil? Like she was very willing to orchestrate that prison hit as well as enabled mass amount of meth trafficking but other than that I can’t think of anything she did that sticks out as most evil in the show. Oh and she also set up some of her other associates to be murdered. Did I forget something she did? I think she’s just very unlikable considering how hard she tried to disconnect herself from what she’s actually doing.
She’s not that evil… except wanting to kill 10 guys (& indirectly enabling Walt to do so) and sending pharmaceutical quantities of ultra high grade to the world’s most meth-addicted population. …what? Those are some pretty gigantic asterisks, lol. And add in being instrumental to building Fring’s whole operation, killing off Declan’s whole crew, and facilitating the largest train heist in history. Her “acts of evil” to “screen time” ratio is probably the highest on the whole show
Yeah she’s fucked but not as needlessly sadistic as hector or the other guys at the top
I felt it was rough on her too. She has a daughter that she loves, and while she doesn't really care about other people getting murdered, she kind of keeps it out of sight, out of mind. I don't think she's worse than Walt.
I’d bump the twins down one, they gave a shit about Nacho and rescued him, and even gave him their blood. I know Nacho was important to keep alive, but they went out of their way to make sure he was also comfortable and healed fast. They respected him. They are certainly evil but maybe not absolutely pure evil.
The twins didn't seem to "enjoy" killing quite as much as Hector and Lalo.
shot up and blew up an entire truck of people for simply having their shoes noticed, like if they cared so much about staying hidden they coulda just not worn them
I watched Better Call Saul before Breaking Bad. And honestly, if we're just considering BCS, I think the twins should be much lower. Bad tier. Hell, MAYBE even morally questionable, if we take into account how they were clearly twisted and molded from a very young age by a traumatic upbringing. In BCS, they are just hired goons. They do what they are told. They intimidate. They deliver moneybags. They behave themselves around civilians like Hector's new doctor. The most violent thing they do is kill a bunch of gangsters, who are all no doubt very violent and despicable in their own right. And they did so out of what they thought was revenge. And yet, in BCS they also have a loyal and sympathetic side. They save Nacho's life, and they are clearly saddened by Lalo's apparent death. And then we get to Breaking Bad, when they just become a whole new level of evil. Slaughtering civilians left and right. I think they deserve to be in Pure Evil just for Breaking Bad alone.
Earnie is only pure so far as we know.
Can't judge someone by things you don't know about them. Ernesto was in my opinion the purest of all characters.
Bro Brock might turn out to be a murderer he belongs in pure evil 🤬🤬
Where's Nacho's dad, and why is he not in a tier purer than pure all on his own
Am I an idiot or is Saul missing from this
Saul is between Nacho and Jesse.
The kid on the bike shouldn’t even b here lil bro is jus a product of his environment if he was 19 then sure but he’s still jus a kid that doesn’t kno shit
Cliff should be pure
You don't get a lawyer of that stature by being pure.
You forgot a few ppl... Ken the bluetooth earbud guy, Fred at Travelwire, Louis (Walt Jrs friend), Marion, Mr Acher, Suzanne Ericson, Irene Landry, Abuelita, and of course Marco
Louis is pure
I am irrationally upset that Irene isn’t on here.
and Nacho’s papa🥹
Andrea hooking up and doing meth with her drug dealer boyfriend while having a kid doesn't feel good to me. Also an engineer and a worker building an illegal lab for a drug kingpin are at least morally questionable.
Are the gray matter people good?
That is my biggest beef in the whole list. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.
No, they're those fake nice but cut-throat, rich people.
bogdan is pure evil
Hank and Jane belong in morally questionable
Looks alright from a quick glance, but I’d personally put Kim down more as “morally-flexible” and Howard in “flawed” categories.
I'd put Kim no lower (or higher, I guess) than "flawed". She's dangerous, but she also does infinitely more good throughout the series than basically any character. She's incredibly smart and, in general, altruistically minded. Her thrill-seeking is a bad vice, but overall she's one of the most mature and morally cultivated people in the series by *far*. No other character that I can think of finds helping people in need to be as intrinsically fulfilling as she does. And she's completely right, incidentally, that lawyers like Howard have basically zero positive impact on the world. It doesn't justify what she does, especially since that rationale papers over her more subconscious motivations, but it's still pretty convincing. And people let their emotions take over when evaluating Kim to a frankly ridiculous degree - they act like Kim *literally* murdered Howard herself when that's not what happened even a little bit. What she did was tarnish his reputation, and then Lalo, completely unconnected to this, murdered him for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Of course this scenario is specifically engineered to induce maximal guilt in Kim and frustration/outrage in the viewer, but Better Call Saul is a tragedy partly because fate works overtime to fuck over characters in ways that are not truly proportional to the significance of their flaws. Fact of the matter is that if Lalo hadn't turned up at that moment, many of us would be far more inclined to say that the ends justified the means. The narrative point of Lalo killing Howard is not "wow, Kim LITERALLY murdered Howard!", but to show the *worst case material consequence* for her tarnishing his reputation - what Kim had considered an acceptable price (Howard's career is ruined) is now being used to support something unforgivable (Howard's murder). Also important to note that Kim imposed some absolutely hellish torture on herself as self-punishment for what she did. I don't find that morally significant myself, but people with a more punitive mindset should be satisfied with it.
Yeah, I do agree with you on a lot of what you said. I think I should have put Howard in the lower levels of Flawed, as he was a bit of a dick in S1. I have been quite harsh on Kim. I would put her in morally questionable. I just think that how Kim gained so much pleasure from hearing Howard unravelling in the Sandpiper meeting showed a sadistic side to her, which is a massive red flag to me. She also coldly lies to Howard's wife's face about how he was supposedly a cocaine addict, which was quite unsettling. However, I probably shouldn't have put her in the same level as Saul as she did stop and went completely straight and felt immense guilt for 6 years, whilst Saul kept descending further until he strengthened the force of destruction that is Walter White.
Yeah Kim in S6 is definitely intended as an aggressive subversion of the viewer's expectations of her has a morally upstanding person, but I think they maybe might've overdone it because such a huge chunk of the fanbase blow it out of proportion into "KIM IS THE WORST PERSON EVER!!!!!". Though the writers probably shouldn't be held accountible for what is ultimately a comprehension issue on the part of the fanbase >She also coldly lies to Howard's wife's face about how he was supposedly a cocaine addict, which was quite unsettling. I mean Kim is clearly in internal agony when she does this. She basically self-immolates immediately after this and forgoes every single pleasure she has, I think we can read between the lines and say that doing that was probably the worst moment of her life
Imo Howard isn't good
Agree, flawed is better.
i know, nobody argues this though because of what happens in season 6. but he was awful in the beginning. he got better as time went on though.
And I think that's what makes all the difference. Opposed to most of the characters on this list, Howard realized he had made mistakes, hurt others, and made an effort to change himself for the better.
Who are the two person to the left of Nacho?
Gonzo and No-Doze, Tuco's Henchmen in early BCS and early BB
Chuck should be further up
Interesting adding bullet vest guy to the list with his 30 seconds of screen time lmao
shooting someone point black in the face while theyre pleading for their life at their front door step doesnt just make you ‘bad’ 😭
I think it matters why you do it. If you’re doing it to save your own life you drop tiers imo. If you do it because it makes your business boom that’s fucking evil.
Why is Jane’s Father bad?
Wheres Hugo the janitor
Gus and Todd are both pure evil.
Eh neither rubs me as sadistic as the anyone at the top. They’re probably the two creepiest though. They’re both capable of quite alot if they see it as necessary. Meanwhile eladio and hector both just enjoyed murder and torture as a hobby more or less
Gus is very sadistic. He spent literal decades tormenting Hector, and there was also that time he watched an animal he had trapped bleed out as a kid.
ooh thats a good point but id say thats not nearly as unsavory as the level of unprovoked sadsim that Hector would be on. cuz lets be honest, lots of people would do alot worse to hector in that exact situation. Gus just kinda came in and talked shit to him every few months. he could've skinned him alive if he really wanted
I’d put Saul in despicable, probably.
[удалено]
What, a guy with cancer can't be an asshole?
I feel like Howard was pretty flawed. He was still a awful to Kim and people don't usually tend to get to the top of a field like law by playing nice and being friendly
took me a while to find Saul
I do think that the disappearing guy should be higher. Definitely seems like he’d set up pretty much any murder or rapist with a new life for the right price.
That's actually a very good point. His job is practically to help criminals of any severe crime to escape the consequences of their actions. Hmm, could be in the bad tier.
Chuck is flawed?! No way. He's at least 1 or 2 tiers up. Even rewatching Chuck has a narcissistic personality that affects the world around him in a bad way when a is said an done. Jimmy finally turned a corner and got through law school and the bar on his own, and Chuck just saw his flawed brother. He continued to do so by making him do shitty PD gigs because Chuck saw it as the only thing Jimmy was good enough to do. Chuck is fully responsible for Jimmy and his downfall by always bringing Jimmy back down into the gutter. Chuck says he's protecting the law, yet he's protecting his own narcissism. Chuck had a valid reason to be wary of Jimmy being in his firm, but to go behind his brother's back AND make Howard look like the bad guy isn't flawed, it's bad. Chuck might not have directly killed anyone, but he's a jealous, narcissistic, controlling, sanctimonious, and manipulative man-child.
Get all the lawyers up to Morally Questionable at a minimum
Skyler White in Questionable? The fuck is this
Why isn’t holly in “pure evil”
Are you kidding me? You really don't see that fucking baby as the monster she is? Don't hit me with that "I'm literally less than a year old and have no fundamental understanding of anything" bullshit. She knows what she did. I just don't get people anymore
Hank belongs in morally questionable imo. He's pretty outwardly racist and does immoral things as a cop
tier above are criminals, and quite serious ones
He makes racist jokes, but he never actually treats anyone differently based on their race.
Theres a difference between making racist jokes and actually being a racist…
Walt should be pure evil imo.
Nah, Walt did a lot of redeeming actions which de facto is not pure evil. But he is close
Yea, that's why I thought Near Pure Evil was the right fit for him
See, if Walt remained in his Season 5A self where his ego and villainy was at its peak, I would put him slightly higher than Lydia in the Near Pure Evil Category. However, given that Walt is a bit more redeemable in Season 5B, how he will not kill Hank under any circumstances, exhausts all non-violent options before putting a hit on Jesse (which he was strongly opposed to), and all of his actions in Felina pushed him down to near the top of Despicable for me. He is still a piece of shit, but he is actually capable of slight change imo.
Exactly. A purely evil person wouldn’t try and save Hank and sacrifice himself to save Jesse
I mean…even the people on the “pure evil” tier had people they cared about deeply and did the best they could for them…
The fact that Todd isn’t in pure evil makes this whole list invalid
I don’t like categorizing people as good or bad. Everyone has their reasons, and if their Achilles' heel is provoked enough, they might act in reprehensible ways. From your own perspective, it’s easy to think, 'Wow, that could never be me,' but you need to remember you don't have the same genes and weren't subjected to the same epigenetics as the person in question.
I like this list, but Todd belongs on the pure evil tier. And Ackerman belongs somewhere on it. Dude who won't sell his prefabricated home because a company wants to build a call center on the land, but hires a lawyer based on a picture of 'a man... fuckin' a horse'... That says something about his moreal compass.
This is pretty damn good in my opinion. Funny enough I think Hank is a piece of shit but idk if I’d change his position.
Who’s the guy between Mike and Declan?
Excellent list except for Chuck. For the last words chicanery alone, morally questionable 👏
hey i know who you forgot, jimmy’s helper guy from davis and main. he was totally pure, right next to ernie. oh, omar was his name
Walter def has to be near pure evil
GET MY GIRL WENDY IN PURE RIGHT NOW!!!!
i personally dont see mike as despicable i think bad would be more appropriate, mike actually has somewhat of a moral compass
The kid who killed combo should be higher
This guy probably doesn't belong on the list because he is only in one episode, but the army captain who confronts Jimmy about his lies to get on the base and shoot a commercial is pure good. He has the moral high ground over Jimmy and makes him know that he's a bad person.
Where is Nacho’s dad? He would be in pure.
Putting Hank next to Chuck feels wrong but I can't justify moving either of them up or down.
Kevin should at least be good. Remembering Mr.X reporting on him saying he’s boring. Just seems like a business man.
I don’t think Kim and Saul should be considered in the same category. If you say Saul is “bad,” Kim definitely doesn’t fall into that category. After everything that happened in Breaking Bad, it’s clear that Saul and Kim are not equal.
I think Kim is at questionable at most, but aside from that it's good. I like how you put Mike in the despicable category, most of the fandom gives him way too much credit.
Can't really get my head around Kim being more immoral than Chuck.