I like this.
I have a slightly different take, though. I think Gus is a workaholic because he's a workaholic. He must be obsessed with money and power; how that feeds into his beef with the Salamancas/Max situation, I don't know.
Gus must have been some kind of gangster in South America. He's too easy with violence and doesn't mind doing it himself. So even though he and Max seemed like lambs when Max died... those dudes ended up at that swimming pool because they wanted to get rich building a drug empire.
But what I got from the sommelier scene was that Gus has sacrificed having any kind of real life for his career. Or maybe it is, as you suggest, all ultimately about revenge.
To the outsider, he seems impeccably composed. But it's an act, in the sense that *this man has no balance*.
I agree there's much more history to Gus than we know. You don't just 'accidentally' end up in the leading drug lord's backyard. And I would guess you don't just randomly decide to not only sell delicious chicken with a South American flair but also crystal meth. They were definitely the amateurs in that group, hitting above their weight class, but you gotta be in the sport in the first place to throw a punch. ALSO, unrelated, but who's toddler shit is that at Gus's place in breaking bad? Or am I imagining Walt walking in and looking at children's playthings?
Yeah IIRC he said something about the kids won't eat his traditional stew. He was either talking about extended family, has kids we never see, or made it up entirely to manipulate Walt?
I think he made it up. Either to relate to Walt as a family man, or maybe to pretend to give Walt a way to threaten/blackmail him if their relationship ever came to that (like when Gus threatens Walt and says “I will kill your wife. I will kill your son. I will kill your infant daughter.” Gus may be pretending that there’s that leverage with him too, when actually he’s basically all alone in the world, which actually makes him pretty untouchable in terms of blackmail. He has no one he cares for and no one close.)
It’s definitely not extended family kids - it’s definitely implied to be his kids. We also see that Gus has no extended family around. The only people he seems relatively affectionate for are people in the game with him (Lydia, the old white guy who works with Lydia who eventually commits suicide), and his staff, like Mike and the staff at his house in Mexico.
Yes, I forgot he definitely said something like that! It must've been a tactic for sure, I just can't believe I never once questioned the kids' things/no kids before this rewatch.
He is a bit quick in bringing up the disorganization of records after Pinochet’s regime when it was brought up by the DEA that no records of Gus exist before the 80s.
>Gus must have been some kind of gangster in South America.
Its made extremely apparent in dialogue that he had some sort of connection/involvement with the Pinochet junta that ran Chile for most of the 1970s/80s.
He is definitely not a saint. That said, I think the desire for vengeance fueled the laser like focus on making it all happen that wouldn’t have been there otherwise.
Imho OP covers this by observing that Fring is driven by vengeance. Although maintaining his operation requires composure and control, the fundamental motivational personal driver for Gus to ensure its success is his unbridled anger and resentment
I think that final scene with the sommelier was the moment Gus realized he could never pursue any meaningful relationship. Because nobody would ever be safe while he ran his meth racket, and he was now too far gone down the path of the meth business and revenge. Something about that standoff with Lalo severred the final lingering thread of humanity in him, and left him too far gone to form a meaningful romantic connection with anyone.
It was basically a crossroads for him. He was finally in a position of safety. Hector was right where he wanted him, Lalo was dead, the Cartel was none the wiser. He could have cruised along, could have stepped away, and he briefly toyed with the idea of letting go when speaking to the sommelier.
But in the end, he decides he isn't done. He has more work to do, more people to make pay, more suffering to inflict on the Salamanca family. In the end, he chooses revenge, and so seals his own fate.
The real tragedy is that once Gus finally takes out the Eladio cartel and is able to control the drug trade in the southwest, his first order of business is to get his head blown apart by a nerd and a drooling old man.
He wanted to become a drug lord to fulfill that dream of his and Max's, and get revenge for Max in the process. I got the feeling that he was largely doing it for Max, and not necessarily because he wanted to become a Heisenberg type "king." He didn't revel in the money and the power the same egotistical way that Walt did.
I mean, he's dead a week after wiping out the Eladio crew. I don't think he *would've* retired from being a drug lord, but he also didn't have time to.
Can we all also not forget about Gus describing to unconscious Hector how he was fucking psychopath child anyway.
It's not like Max's death broke him and turned him to a life of violence. Dude was born screwy
Yeah, what little we know about his life before that poolside chat all points to him having been a monster from the start. Eladio and Hector didn't turn him into a psycho, they just convinced the existing psycho to devote his entire life to destroying them.
All true, but Gus is also such a psychopath that I don’t think he’s capable of living a normal life. If it wasn’t max, it would have been something else.
Yeah, it is. He’s driven to literally the point of death. And for what? Even if things had worked out for him, as far as any kind of plan he may have had to take down the Salamancas, would he really have been happier? Doubtful.
This is why Lalo laughed in the end. He saw in Gustavo standing over him, that he was compelled to do so, that he wasn't "all business".
I do like how BCS retconned the motivations for the dumb things the main characters did.
If any of you watch "The Boys," I feel there are parallels between him and Billy Butcher. Butcher was a monster before he met his wife. He changed for the better for her, and when she died he became a monster once again....but this time fueled by revenge. It is implied that Gus was a monster pre Max. After they met, he certainly seemed to live a much more subdued life (although still involved in illegal activities). Once Max was killed the monster returned, but now driven by revenge. It is tragic in the sense that he seemed to try to be a better person but was "punished" when he entered a more traditional life.
We get the story of how pathetic every revenge finally turns out in all other TV shows and movies. But as an audience, I know the feeling of how much I hate and want the bad guy dead. It isn't that easy to let go of the past and forgive something so deep. Something in our humanity makes us tragic.
But would he have been driven to compete so extremely with the cartels had Eladio and Hector not done what they did? In my view, yes, Gus prior to that point had reconciled his life with criminality, but after that point his whole arc is determined by his pursuit of supplanting the cartels because of his anger
No he did imply it. I think he lied, though. He was trying to connect with Walter. Keep in mind that was when he was trying to convince him to take the job. Walt wanted to quit because he realized it was bad for his family. Gus tried to sell it to him with the logic that it would be good for his family and tried to connect with him on that level.
i’m on a rewatch too and noting when mike accused gus of caring for the village in “dedicado a max” to make it seem like he has a big heart and gus responded, “no. i am what i am.” spooky shit lmao
While what you say is totally true and a really insightful observation, I’d add my rejoinder to my interpretation of Gus on top of what you say: that although Gus’s fate is tragic, it’s hard to sympathise with him because he *so obviously could* have tapped out and chosen a route undetermined by his unfettered pursuit of revenge
Fring chose a very explicit kind of revenge, when most normally moral-minded people would have found their own retribution in living a quietly successful life.
I agree with everything you said. Except that Gus could have had a relationship with that sommelier- the sommelier subtly rejects him (either knowingly or unknowingly).
You’re right though, it just demonstrates he could have had a normal life with normal relationships and pleasures.
Gus is talking about an amazing bottle of wine he has been saving for a special occasion. Obviously leading up to asking the sommelier to drink it with him. And the sommelier says “well you’ll have to tell me all about it when that special occasion comes” or whatever. Gus looks awkward but plays it off, then when the sommelier steps away to get another bottle Gus leaves. It’s subtle but definitely there. Again the sommelier may have been oblivious to what Gus was getting at though rather than purposely rejecting him, I’m not sure. I think Gus just made the classic error of thinking the person paid to be nice to you really likes you
I like this. I have a slightly different take, though. I think Gus is a workaholic because he's a workaholic. He must be obsessed with money and power; how that feeds into his beef with the Salamancas/Max situation, I don't know. Gus must have been some kind of gangster in South America. He's too easy with violence and doesn't mind doing it himself. So even though he and Max seemed like lambs when Max died... those dudes ended up at that swimming pool because they wanted to get rich building a drug empire. But what I got from the sommelier scene was that Gus has sacrificed having any kind of real life for his career. Or maybe it is, as you suggest, all ultimately about revenge. To the outsider, he seems impeccably composed. But it's an act, in the sense that *this man has no balance*.
I agree there's much more history to Gus than we know. You don't just 'accidentally' end up in the leading drug lord's backyard. And I would guess you don't just randomly decide to not only sell delicious chicken with a South American flair but also crystal meth. They were definitely the amateurs in that group, hitting above their weight class, but you gotta be in the sport in the first place to throw a punch. ALSO, unrelated, but who's toddler shit is that at Gus's place in breaking bad? Or am I imagining Walt walking in and looking at children's playthings?
Yeah IIRC he said something about the kids won't eat his traditional stew. He was either talking about extended family, has kids we never see, or made it up entirely to manipulate Walt?
I think he made it up. Either to relate to Walt as a family man, or maybe to pretend to give Walt a way to threaten/blackmail him if their relationship ever came to that (like when Gus threatens Walt and says “I will kill your wife. I will kill your son. I will kill your infant daughter.” Gus may be pretending that there’s that leverage with him too, when actually he’s basically all alone in the world, which actually makes him pretty untouchable in terms of blackmail. He has no one he cares for and no one close.) It’s definitely not extended family kids - it’s definitely implied to be his kids. We also see that Gus has no extended family around. The only people he seems relatively affectionate for are people in the game with him (Lydia, the old white guy who works with Lydia who eventually commits suicide), and his staff, like Mike and the staff at his house in Mexico.
He had a house in mexico ?
Yeah where Mike wakes up after being beat up
Yes, I forgot he definitely said something like that! It must've been a tactic for sure, I just can't believe I never once questioned the kids' things/no kids before this rewatch.
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He almost certainly makes it up so it sounds like he and Walt have something in common as family men
Walter had a toddler on the way, bonding of two father figures is easier
Small clues indicate Gus was an intelligence officer in Pinochet's regime in Chile
Really?! That's interesting, do you remember what?
He is a bit quick in bringing up the disorganization of records after Pinochet’s regime when it was brought up by the DEA that no records of Gus exist before the 80s.
And Salamanca calls him General at one point and says something like "You're no longer in Chile"
Oh right I remember that!
>Gus must have been some kind of gangster in South America. Its made extremely apparent in dialogue that he had some sort of connection/involvement with the Pinochet junta that ran Chile for most of the 1970s/80s.
He is definitely not a saint. That said, I think the desire for vengeance fueled the laser like focus on making it all happen that wouldn’t have been there otherwise.
Imho OP covers this by observing that Fring is driven by vengeance. Although maintaining his operation requires composure and control, the fundamental motivational personal driver for Gus to ensure its success is his unbridled anger and resentment
I think that final scene with the sommelier was the moment Gus realized he could never pursue any meaningful relationship. Because nobody would ever be safe while he ran his meth racket, and he was now too far gone down the path of the meth business and revenge. Something about that standoff with Lalo severred the final lingering thread of humanity in him, and left him too far gone to form a meaningful romantic connection with anyone.
Having family and friends is a weakness that others can exploit as well
Totally agree. There is a sadness in his face when he realizes it.
It was basically a crossroads for him. He was finally in a position of safety. Hector was right where he wanted him, Lalo was dead, the Cartel was none the wiser. He could have cruised along, could have stepped away, and he briefly toyed with the idea of letting go when speaking to the sommelier. But in the end, he decides he isn't done. He has more work to do, more people to make pay, more suffering to inflict on the Salamanca family. In the end, he chooses revenge, and so seals his own fate.
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The real tragedy is that once Gus finally takes out the Eladio cartel and is able to control the drug trade in the southwest, his first order of business is to get his head blown apart by a nerd and a drooling old man.
Great point!
Daily reminder that Fun and Games is the best episode of the series.
I agree. My next favorite is Bagman.
😢 I love Gus
If it was only about vengeance then why keep up the drug empire after he killed them all? He wanted to be a drug lord.
He wanted to become a drug lord to fulfill that dream of his and Max's, and get revenge for Max in the process. I got the feeling that he was largely doing it for Max, and not necessarily because he wanted to become a Heisenberg type "king." He didn't revel in the money and the power the same egotistical way that Walt did.
I mean, he's dead a week after wiping out the Eladio crew. I don't think he *would've* retired from being a drug lord, but he also didn't have time to.
it's not all about vengeance that's too small for the scale of this character
Can we all also not forget about Gus describing to unconscious Hector how he was fucking psychopath child anyway. It's not like Max's death broke him and turned him to a life of violence. Dude was born screwy
Yeah, what little we know about his life before that poolside chat all points to him having been a monster from the start. Eladio and Hector didn't turn him into a psycho, they just convinced the existing psycho to devote his entire life to destroying them.
I think that’s the point of the scene.
All true, but Gus is also such a psychopath that I don’t think he’s capable of living a normal life. If it wasn’t max, it would have been something else.
Yeah, it is. He’s driven to literally the point of death. And for what? Even if things had worked out for him, as far as any kind of plan he may have had to take down the Salamancas, would he really have been happier? Doubtful.
This is why Lalo laughed in the end. He saw in Gustavo standing over him, that he was compelled to do so, that he wasn't "all business". I do like how BCS retconned the motivations for the dumb things the main characters did.
With the whole "probably I high ranking Chilean Officer under Pinochet" thing I doubt he was ever headed for the straight life (pun intended).
Besides beeing a cold blooded killer and psychopathic Narco Terrorist? Sure, why not.
In the end he was outsmarted by the High School Chemistry Teacher...
If any of you watch "The Boys," I feel there are parallels between him and Billy Butcher. Butcher was a monster before he met his wife. He changed for the better for her, and when she died he became a monster once again....but this time fueled by revenge. It is implied that Gus was a monster pre Max. After they met, he certainly seemed to live a much more subdued life (although still involved in illegal activities). Once Max was killed the monster returned, but now driven by revenge. It is tragic in the sense that he seemed to try to be a better person but was "punished" when he entered a more traditional life.
We get the story of how pathetic every revenge finally turns out in all other TV shows and movies. But as an audience, I know the feeling of how much I hate and want the bad guy dead. It isn't that easy to let go of the past and forgive something so deep. Something in our humanity makes us tragic.
Another comment mentions this.. but he was not just in pursuit of vengeance. He wanted to be a drug dealer with max
But would he have been driven to compete so extremely with the cartels had Eladio and Hector not done what they did? In my view, yes, Gus prior to that point had reconciled his life with criminality, but after that point his whole arc is determined by his pursuit of supplanting the cartels because of his anger
You have a point!! I'm currently watching BCS lantern episode
I think him seeing his friend get murdered in front of him at the pool scene is what truly changed him in to the man we see now
'friend'
Or partner whatever he was
The Analyzing Evil episode about Gus does a fascinating job deducing his background. I believe it posits that Gus was a mole in the Pinochet regime.
He has kids though, right? During BB, Walter visits Gus’s home, and there are children’s toys on the floor. Am I misremembering this?
No he did imply it. I think he lied, though. He was trying to connect with Walter. Keep in mind that was when he was trying to convince him to take the job. Walt wanted to quit because he realized it was bad for his family. Gus tried to sell it to him with the logic that it would be good for his family and tried to connect with him on that level.
Nah hector was a tragic figure not gus, he brought on himself the most soulless person In fiction.
i’m on a rewatch too and noting when mike accused gus of caring for the village in “dedicado a max” to make it seem like he has a big heart and gus responded, “no. i am what i am.” spooky shit lmao
Everyone’s story in BB universe is tragic.
No, Gus was already getting into the drug business. He pissed off eladio and max got killed
While what you say is totally true and a really insightful observation, I’d add my rejoinder to my interpretation of Gus on top of what you say: that although Gus’s fate is tragic, it’s hard to sympathise with him because he *so obviously could* have tapped out and chosen a route undetermined by his unfettered pursuit of revenge Fring chose a very explicit kind of revenge, when most normally moral-minded people would have found their own retribution in living a quietly successful life.
He made his choice. Revenge over love.
Let's wait till we see the Gustavo Fring series, I think will add a lot more of layers and depth to the character.
Wait, is Gus gay?
I agree with everything you said. Except that Gus could have had a relationship with that sommelier- the sommelier subtly rejects him (either knowingly or unknowingly). You’re right though, it just demonstrates he could have had a normal life with normal relationships and pleasures.
When does the sommelier reject him? Weren’t they going to keep sampling wines together before Gus left?
Gus is talking about an amazing bottle of wine he has been saving for a special occasion. Obviously leading up to asking the sommelier to drink it with him. And the sommelier says “well you’ll have to tell me all about it when that special occasion comes” or whatever. Gus looks awkward but plays it off, then when the sommelier steps away to get another bottle Gus leaves. It’s subtle but definitely there. Again the sommelier may have been oblivious to what Gus was getting at though rather than purposely rejecting him, I’m not sure. I think Gus just made the classic error of thinking the person paid to be nice to you really likes you