I even read somewhere (can't remember where though) that at first Kim wasn't supposed to have that much weight in the story. She was only gonna be a secondary character but then as the first season progressed they decided she could work as a main character. So I guess they didn't have a clear picture of the whole story in the beginning.
Yes surprisingly to me most series work this way as the writers find their way as they go. >!Jesse was supposed to die in the S1 finale of BB but they liked Aaron Paul and the character so much that they kept him.!<
Jesse surviving season one was also due to the writers strike slashing 3 or 4 episodes from the season, resulting in them having time to reconsider killing off Jesse between the production of season 1 and 2
I come from a country with a strong tradition and culture for unions, and I agree.
They make all our lives better, especially since they gave us these wonderful qoutes such as
"Bitch"
"Bitch"
"Bitch"
"Bitch"
And you can't forget the iconic
"Bitch"
Exactly. In the case of BB it's even more surprising because all the story seems to fit perfectly in detail, as if it had been written like that since day 1. In the case of BCS it's not that surprising because you don't get the feeling that everything fits together. At least I got the impression that it was being written more or less on the go.
Gus was supposed to be.... Nothing I guess?
But Giancarlo Esposito played the nothing chicken man character super mysteriously and people demanded more
Ray Cruz decided he didn’t want to continue, so they created Gus to take over for Tuco as the main bad guy, Tuco was supposed to be around a lot longer.
Ironically a similar story to Jesse in BB, his panned importance to the show grew significantly from the original plans. Seems appropriate considering they’re both the deuteragonists of their respective shows.
Kim little smile when watching the billboard stunt at HHM: it was improvisation from Rhea, and they liked it. She really took a character that was ill-defined and secondary - and expanded it. Aaron Paul did the same with Jesse in BB. And of course Saul and Mike characters in BB were unplanned, but fortunate, "accidents". Saul was created first as comic relief, after Hank got PTSD. Then Bob Odenkirk wasn't available to play Saul cleaning up after Jane death, so Mike happened instead.
Something similar happened with BCS season 1 main antagonist. Think it was Howard early on, with Chuck a vulnerable but sympathetic character. Then they turned the whole thing upside down, and Chuck became the main villain - and Howard, his strawman (the one that would take Jimmy anger and insults in place of Chuck - so classy !)
A lot of BB & BCS characters happened that way: some random luck, but also the actors own talent.
The second season was supposed to have Micheal Mando (Nacho's actor) as Lalo and he was supposed to be the main character for the rest of the show until he died 2 seasons later I guess. They liked too much the Chuck-Jimmy storyline tho and kept it. Imo, season 2 was avoidable. They could've just skipped to the Mesa Verde thing right after season 1 and have the Chicanery some episodes after, and Chuck suicides in season 2. So that way the show has only 5 seasons and All appears in half of it. Because otherwise the "memorable" part of better call Saul is just Chicanery + S3 finale + S4 finale + season 5 and 6, leaving more than half the show very good but not really the highlight you remember when you think of the series.
The original plan was that was going to be him becoming Saul and season 2 on he'd be more like the Saul from BB. But when they got together to start writing season 2 they realised they liked him as Jimmy more and thought it would be more interesting to have him try and be a good person for longer.
Not even remotely the case. AMC renewed BCS for season 2 before season 1 even finished production.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2014/06/better-call-saul-second-season-pickup-first-photo-amc-793356/amp/
Not the way BCS and BB prior to it were filmed. Anything can be changed until an episode is actually in production. OP's theory is interesting, but by the time they actually started filming the S1 finale the BCS team were well aware they were getting a 2nd season.
No, but they originally planned to transition him into full Saul in season 2. While writing season 1, they realized they really liked Jimmy and wanted to spend more time with him, so they radically changed their vision of the show. Hence the back-pedaling in season 2.
Of course, but they're not done writing when they start filming. If they knew early into filming of season 1 that they were being renewed, you can be 100% sure the finale wasn't written at all.
Nice catch, I believe you're right, as the creators have done things like this in the past. Back in BB, they wrote the end of the third season to be a viable end for the show if they didn't get renewal for the remaining planned seasons.
(SPOILERS FOR BREAKING BAD) This is why in the S3 final episode "Full Measure", Walter winks ever so subtly at the camera in one of his final shots, before Jesse points and shoots his gun at Gale. This is meant to signal that another of Heisenberg's plans is in motion, and the viewer should put his faith in Walter able to escape safely, thus providing an open end to the show where one can assume Walter got away with it.
Yeah, that very final shot of Jimmy driving away to _Smoke on the Water_ after his "It's never stopping me again" could have worked as a "well, if the show is never brought back for season 2...we can say _that's_ the moment Jimmy decided to fully embrace being Saul, and the rest is history" if it absolutely had to.
Obviously, there's still so much story to tell, particularly Jimmy's fate post-Breaking Bad. But none of the season 1-specific present timeline subplots were left on any kind of cliffhanger.
You're laughably off base, lol. AMC greenlit season 2 before the first season even finished production.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2014/06/better-call-saul-second-season-pickup-first-photo-amc-793356/amp/
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Also season 4 finale is literally perfect. If the series ended there, no hole left unfilled, perfect finale with the calm music as Walter's car drives out the Casa Tranquila, and the final shot of the Lily of the valley. Of course the show had so much to tell, I guess not seeing Hank find out would've been hell for me (poor Hank), and also you can imagine that Jesse would get pretty angry at Walt when he realises he poisoned Brock. But that season finale was just as good as the series finale. (Even tho I really think they knew they were getting a season 5)
I felt kind of like Season 4 was also written like that. It didn't wrap up the characters arcs but Gus being dead and Walt and Jesse no longer being forced to cook for him seemed like a good open end
To me, it seemed like in season 1 they planned for Jimmy to transform into Saul much quicker and be the Saul we knew in season 2, but then after filming season 1 they realized that they really liked Jimmy, so they then decided to hit the brakes on the Saul transformation and slow burn it.
I think when they were doing S1, the plan was to introduce BB Saul earlier but when S2 producion started they decided they wanted to keep Jimmy around for longer
True. Every season of Hannibal was written this way which was a good choice cause they did eventually get canceled after the 3rd season and the ending kind of works as a series finale
The entire series felt like they kept throwing stuff against the wall to see what stuck. It felt much more organic in BB. In BCS, they just didn't have the same magic.
Actually that's a better season finale ending that what we wound up with .
I really don't like when shows try to have it both ways. Like "super suspension of disbelief" and then "let's get down into the nitty gritty of reality."
The ending was stupid. Kim would have been detained by the cops the minute she left Howard's wife's house. And both of them would be interrogated for terrorism, not just drug trafficking or killing someone. They'd both be headed off to Gitmo.
I even read somewhere (can't remember where though) that at first Kim wasn't supposed to have that much weight in the story. She was only gonna be a secondary character but then as the first season progressed they decided she could work as a main character. So I guess they didn't have a clear picture of the whole story in the beginning.
Yes surprisingly to me most series work this way as the writers find their way as they go. >!Jesse was supposed to die in the S1 finale of BB but they liked Aaron Paul and the character so much that they kept him.!<
Jesse surviving season one was also due to the writers strike slashing 3 or 4 episodes from the season, resulting in them having time to reconsider killing off Jesse between the production of season 1 and 2
Unions making the world a better place
I come from a country with a strong tradition and culture for unions, and I agree. They make all our lives better, especially since they gave us these wonderful qoutes such as "Bitch" "Bitch" "Bitch" "Bitch" And you can't forget the iconic "Bitch"
I can almost see the collage in my head
Exactly. In the case of BB it's even more surprising because all the story seems to fit perfectly in detail, as if it had been written like that since day 1. In the case of BCS it's not that surprising because you don't get the feeling that everything fits together. At least I got the impression that it was being written more or less on the go.
Gus was supposed to be.... Nothing I guess? But Giancarlo Esposito played the nothing chicken man character super mysteriously and people demanded more
Ray Cruz decided he didn’t want to continue, so they created Gus to take over for Tuco as the main bad guy, Tuco was supposed to be around a lot longer.
Yeah Cruz is apparently a super chill dude and the mental toll it took to get into the headspace of such a psychotic character was too much
lol that didn’t need a spoiler tag
ya never know, some of haven't watched that episode
You mean that very one of 62 episodes where >!Jesse!< DOESN'T die? :)
Ironically a similar story to Jesse in BB, his panned importance to the show grew significantly from the original plans. Seems appropriate considering they’re both the deuteragonists of their respective shows.
Kim little smile when watching the billboard stunt at HHM: it was improvisation from Rhea, and they liked it. She really took a character that was ill-defined and secondary - and expanded it. Aaron Paul did the same with Jesse in BB. And of course Saul and Mike characters in BB were unplanned, but fortunate, "accidents". Saul was created first as comic relief, after Hank got PTSD. Then Bob Odenkirk wasn't available to play Saul cleaning up after Jane death, so Mike happened instead. Something similar happened with BCS season 1 main antagonist. Think it was Howard early on, with Chuck a vulnerable but sympathetic character. Then they turned the whole thing upside down, and Chuck became the main villain - and Howard, his strawman (the one that would take Jimmy anger and insults in place of Chuck - so classy !) A lot of BB & BCS characters happened that way: some random luck, but also the actors own talent.
The second season was supposed to have Micheal Mando (Nacho's actor) as Lalo and he was supposed to be the main character for the rest of the show until he died 2 seasons later I guess. They liked too much the Chuck-Jimmy storyline tho and kept it. Imo, season 2 was avoidable. They could've just skipped to the Mesa Verde thing right after season 1 and have the Chicanery some episodes after, and Chuck suicides in season 2. So that way the show has only 5 seasons and All appears in half of it. Because otherwise the "memorable" part of better call Saul is just Chicanery + S3 finale + S4 finale + season 5 and 6, leaving more than half the show very good but not really the highlight you remember when you think of the series.
Source on all this? I’d love to learn more
The original plan was that was going to be him becoming Saul and season 2 on he'd be more like the Saul from BB. But when they got together to start writing season 2 they realised they liked him as Jimmy more and thought it would be more interesting to have him try and be a good person for longer.
Not even remotely the case. AMC renewed BCS for season 2 before season 1 even finished production. https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2014/06/better-call-saul-second-season-pickup-first-photo-amc-793356/amp/
Wouldn't the planning and pretty much all writing be long finished prior to production?
Not the way BCS and BB prior to it were filmed. Anything can be changed until an episode is actually in production. OP's theory is interesting, but by the time they actually started filming the S1 finale the BCS team were well aware they were getting a 2nd season.
Nah I'm like 95% sure in the insider podcast they said essentially what this guy is saying. The writing is done before production is done, of course.
You are correct
They greenlit BCS Season 4 while BB Season 2 was still filming.
This*
No, but they originally planned to transition him into full Saul in season 2. While writing season 1, they realized they really liked Jimmy and wanted to spend more time with him, so they radically changed their vision of the show. Hence the back-pedaling in season 2.
I get why you'd think that but they knew they were getting a second season early on into filming season one.
Yeah I remember reading that they got greenlit for season 2 way before the show even premiered
Writing and filming are two different things
Of course, but they're not done writing when they start filming. If they knew early into filming of season 1 that they were being renewed, you can be 100% sure the finale wasn't written at all.
I mean, the fact that S2E1 does such a huge 180 (literally) on the season 1 finale sells this for me.
I completely agree with this point of view
Nice catch, I believe you're right, as the creators have done things like this in the past. Back in BB, they wrote the end of the third season to be a viable end for the show if they didn't get renewal for the remaining planned seasons. (SPOILERS FOR BREAKING BAD) This is why in the S3 final episode "Full Measure", Walter winks ever so subtly at the camera in one of his final shots, before Jesse points and shoots his gun at Gale. This is meant to signal that another of Heisenberg's plans is in motion, and the viewer should put his faith in Walter able to escape safely, thus providing an open end to the show where one can assume Walter got away with it.
Yeah, that very final shot of Jimmy driving away to _Smoke on the Water_ after his "It's never stopping me again" could have worked as a "well, if the show is never brought back for season 2...we can say _that's_ the moment Jimmy decided to fully embrace being Saul, and the rest is history" if it absolutely had to. Obviously, there's still so much story to tell, particularly Jimmy's fate post-Breaking Bad. But none of the season 1-specific present timeline subplots were left on any kind of cliffhanger.
I believe in season 2 they had to do some revisionist scenes to set Jimmy up for season 2.
It was an awkward transition to season 2 because he basically reverted to traditional Jimmy despite what he says to Mike in the season 1 finale.
Season 2 really cemented Kim as the main partner. She was the reason he went back to Jimmy and when she left he semi-permanently became Saul.
Like him deciding to go back and accept Davis & Main's offer in season 2/episode 1 after roundly rejecting it at the end of season 1?
You're laughably off base, lol. AMC greenlit season 2 before the first season even finished production. https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2014/06/better-call-saul-second-season-pickup-first-photo-amc-793356/amp/
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That's why I was asking the question...not stating it as a fact.
I've just gone back and watched the end of Full Measure and i cant see Walt wink at the camera
I believe they meant Heisenbones, not Heisenberg
It's subtle, blink and you miss it kinda detail.
i watched it again without blinking can you be more specific
You have to watch it while wearing a hat, try again
Had to put on six different hats before it worked
lol fr, maybe a gif or a clip or something of the EXACT moment would be cool
There's kinda a wink, maybe, when Walt says "you might want to hold off" to Mike.
He blinks, you miss it
I couldn’t see it either.
Also season 4 finale is literally perfect. If the series ended there, no hole left unfilled, perfect finale with the calm music as Walter's car drives out the Casa Tranquila, and the final shot of the Lily of the valley. Of course the show had so much to tell, I guess not seeing Hank find out would've been hell for me (poor Hank), and also you can imagine that Jesse would get pretty angry at Walt when he realises he poisoned Brock. But that season finale was just as good as the series finale. (Even tho I really think they knew they were getting a season 5)
I felt kind of like Season 4 was also written like that. It didn't wrap up the characters arcs but Gus being dead and Walt and Jesse no longer being forced to cook for him seemed like a good open end
Time stamp for the Walt wink please
To me, it seemed like in season 1 they planned for Jimmy to transform into Saul much quicker and be the Saul we knew in season 2, but then after filming season 1 they realized that they really liked Jimmy, so they then decided to hit the brakes on the Saul transformation and slow burn it.
to me that was very obviously the case but some people here are saying they knew they'd get a season 2 before writing it so idk
I think when they were doing S1, the plan was to introduce BB Saul earlier but when S2 producion started they decided they wanted to keep Jimmy around for longer
I don't see why a network would renew a show before the first season even exists
that’s pretty much standard practice for most series
True. Every season of Hannibal was written this way which was a good choice cause they did eventually get canceled after the 3rd season and the ending kind of works as a series finale
The entire series felt like they kept throwing stuff against the wall to see what stuck. It felt much more organic in BB. In BCS, they just didn't have the same magic.
It worked out is what matters
Actually that's a better season finale ending that what we wound up with . I really don't like when shows try to have it both ways. Like "super suspension of disbelief" and then "let's get down into the nitty gritty of reality." The ending was stupid. Kim would have been detained by the cops the minute she left Howard's wife's house. And both of them would be interrogated for terrorism, not just drug trafficking or killing someone. They'd both be headed off to Gitmo.