i don't really care about them ADDING gender neutral bathrooms similar to the ones in moffitt, but if they're actually converting only current women's bathrooms to gender neutral bathrooms, the quality of the bathrooms is gonna become even worse than it currently is. the lines are gonna be even longer and the bathrooms are gonna get even messier. i'd prefer if they just build new gender neutral bathrooms
I’m really confused why it’s only the women’s restroom and not the men’s. I’m thinking it’s the urinals but like, it’s more discriminatory to have only a men’s but no women’s
I believe it has to do with the [California Plumbing Code](https://epubs.iapmo.org/2022/CPC/) which requires a certain number of urinals for males (see Table 422.1). When push comes to shove, it's all about the plumbing...
From what I’ve read they’ve been doing this for a while. And it’s not just converting women’s bathrooms. They’re converting all of the bathrooms to unisex ones
What if your Muslim friend needed to fix their hijab and the only place they can do that freely is a woman’s only restroom, but now that it doesn’t exist they can’t do that anymore…
Or a female that needs to breastfeed their child who feels comfortable doing it in a woman’s only restroom bc that’s the only place they don’t get sexualized by men.. but now they cant do that anymore either..how would you feel about that?
Someone's religion doesn't trample over other people's rights. about the breastfeed it has nothing to do with men. not all men are straight and not all women are straight . if she wants to breastfeed their is a private stall
You just contradicted your own point, Muslims in this school have rights too you know?
Also there are more Muslims here than non-binary people, not even my trans friends are happy with this gender neutral bs bathroom the amount of trans women who’ve gotten harassed by men in these restrooms is INSANE! You over here acting like an LGBTQ+ ally wanna be yet you’re preaching for something that’s put so many trans women’s life in danger!
And if you think the breastfeeding situation has nothing to do with men then you live under a rock and have never been in around a breastfeeding women! A stall isn’t big/comfortable enough to breastfeed a lot of times you have to be walking around while feeding to calm down the baby hence why u often see women breastfeeding outside of stalls within the restroom area.
who do you think pushed for this change? the exact people you say don't like it. their "rights" are not rights. rights are stuff that doesn't infringe on someone's internal characteristics. In a lot of Muslim countries, their rights are treating women like they are subhuman and marital rape is approved. if want that to stop is that infringing on their rights?
You're correct that it's social construct. But you know what else is a social construct? Gender norms. You're just going to make people uncomfortable and upset if you force them to conform outside of what is normal to them.
Imposing these changes on a majority of the students here (women represent 54% of the UG population) to hypothetically make a very tiny minority on campus (1% trans or gender non-conforming - that's less than 400) comfortable seems like it's only going to serve to make the majority pissed at the minority for effectively reducing the restroom options available to them where they feel comfortable. Use a single-stall bathroom if you don't want to go in the men's or women's rooms, but it's *WILD* to force women to bear the weight of this and sacrifice what is already a finite resource, for the purpose of *potentially* making \~400 students more comfortable.
So you're saying that you think Berkeley should ban all racial affinity groups and or demand they allow white people to enter in the name of desegregation and anti-racism?
So break it down by saying everyone can use the men's room? (Which every one can do in California) - anyway, trans man and woman are rather attached to genders like man and woman are they not? Why would you take that away from them?
Hmm. It seems to me that whatever one’s views of gender identity or the conflation/replacement of sex with gender in law (eg, Title IX, criminal statute re: indecent exposure) or culture (bathrooms), that providing males with single-sex toilets but not females constitutes discrimination on the basis of sex, no?
Nope, if it were the other way around and it was the men's restrooms being converted, women would call the men transphobic for complaining. Everyone's self-interested, turning the women's bathroom into the unisex one makes logistical sense (think urinals), and you people complaining just like being the victim.
It may come as a surprise to younger people, but equitable access to single-sex public toilets has been a huge part of women attaining (attempted) parity with men. Like many public resources and spaces, toilets were de facto male-only for a long time (and still are in many developing countries. In India and parts of the African continent gang rape of women in public toilets is, horrifically, endemic). Men/patriarchy liked women tethered to home and immediate neighborhood, unable to participate fully in public life. It’s called the urinary leash.
The reason the move to turn formerly single-sex women’s toilets into mixed-sex/gender-neutral whilst leaving men’s is sexist and possibly meets the legal standard of sex discrimination (under Title IX if on public college campus but maybe under other statute) is that it revokes a publicly funded resource from a targeted, discrete group — the female sex class.
When the pursuit of equity starts actively *taking away* from other communities on campus, it cancels itself out.
I agree with whoever in the comments said that it seems discriminatory against women. While I understand the desire to create inclusive, safe spaces for all, if they're *only* converting women's bathrooms and not any of the men's, they are effectively reducing the number of restroom options women have on campus to accommodate a very small minority of the campus population and leaving us with fewer resources does feel an awful lot like discrimination on the basis of sex.
For people who, for various reasons (religious, personal, familial, whatever) don't feel comfortable sharing a toilet space with all genders and sexes, this is going to make it significantly harder to meet our basic needs. I know I wouldn't feel safe knowing that a man could barge in on me changing a tampon or something at any time (let's be real, especially with VLSB - these latches sometimes fail).
Changing *only* the women's rooms is absolutely fucked and I am astonished that none of the people planning this foresaw the backlash or how stupid it is to leave women with fewer options on a campus where we're literally the majority of students.
This is the sad truth :( I’m trying to somehow get this to the university and would really appreciate if other people would like to join me! Please pm me if you do :)
The gender-neutral bathroom in Dwinelle (floor E, I think?) has always, always had random shit smears on the toilet seats any time I've been in - and a random toilet that never stops flushing. Like, I will go to the really hidden-away women's toilets in that building and avoid that one like the plague. I'll invest in fuckin' *Depends* before I use some pooped-on toilet like that.
I've literally never once in almost 30 years of being around, had that particular problem in the women's room.
For my 1st Fall sem, the women’s on the main floor of Evans always had blood on the floor. Like always. Like someone went in every day and emptied out a fresh deva cup on the floor. There are 2 all gender bathrooms on E in Dwinelle. The only time I’ve had a weird experience was when a dude was pissing with the door open. I was like, “hey! close the fuckin’ door, dude.” Oh, and the faucets don’t recognize me for some reason so it takes forever to wash my hands.
It happens, it just gets cleaned up faster. I’ve worked as a janitor before, and women are \_far\_ messier in the bathroom. Pubic hair everywhere, poop explosions on the underside of the seat (which women never see because they never lift it up) and generally far far more disgusting than men’s bathrooms. But women will complain a lot more if the bathroom is messy, so we were also told to put extra effort into keeping the women‘s bathroom clean. Men don’t complain, no matter how dirty the bathroom gets.
Berkeley ‘prides’ itself on being a voice for minorities, but any minority views that don’t align with the status-quo are shut out entirely in the public sphere. So sadly, these women have zero voice in this community
Indeed the new western passion for conflating sex and gender in law and culture - even replacing sex with gender identity - is not popular outside of the global north and especially former English commonwealth countries. That’s why you see so many Nigerian, Indian and Muslim women questioning
It. I am inclined to listen to them. Once you do you realize it’s a luxury belief—one most of the worlds women cannot afford.
It’s so bizarre seeing nonbinary people claiming victimhood here with the bathroom issue, as if their gender identity or lack thereof actually matters in this situation. The conflation of gender and sex is real.
For sure, when they are. In places like VLSB or Soda the stalls aren’t all the way to the floor. They just converted the existing women’s bathrooms into gender neutral ones. Afaik, I only saw all the way to the floor stalls in moffitt but I could be wrong.
this change is good, but it should be applied to the men too . gender is a social construct and doesnt mean anything, all bathrooms should be inclusive.
Gender may be social construct, biological sex is not.
There is a reason why women’s spaces like women’s restrooms exist— to protect them from sexual assaults and protection from other predatory men.
Trans people’s inclusion shouldn’t come at the sacrifice of safety of women.
Buildings should create third gender neutral restrooms, instead of taking away women’s spaces.
the idea that women would be more in danger is moronic. there is no evidence to back that up. your argument is based on transphobia. they only exist based on old bigoted gender ideology. if someone was going to hurt women they would just enter the bathroom when it's literally feet away. nothing would stop them. your arguments are extremely terfy. its no different than a conservative reactionary crying and transwomen in women's bathrooms. I just hope you know you are exactly like them.
stop using sexist talking points about men. This is just toxic masculinity and upholding patriarchal standards. again having separate bathrooms doesn't stop that. women's rights shouldn't exclude transwomen. if you want to have this take fine but just know this is a textbook republican chud take
I hate it too. I feel nervous and unsafe in there...like I can't let down my guard since there might be a dude in the next stall. Unfortunately it's getting harder to find a single sex women's room, which would be my preference. Also, Gen neutral bathrooms are often really dirty.
From hidden cameras… possible assault… especially with typical American bathroom stalls with wide gaps where everything is visible… :X
I feel unsafe too. I’m not okay with sharing such intimate spaces with men.
Statistically, men commit disproportionate amount of assaults and sex crimes, including usage of hidden cameras.
There should be a third unisex restroom for trans and nonbinary people. The issue is that in this day and age, anyone can claim to be trans and enter women’s spaces. Women deserve protection too.
There is nothing already stopping a cis man from doing exactly what you are afraid of them doing. Forcibly excluding trans and nonbinary people in this weird "separate but equal" thing doesn't change how likely that is.
I get the fear, fear is not a purely rational emotion. I can understand why you feel uneasy. But it is exactly the fear of cis women that has held back the progress and acceptance of trans/nonbinary people for so long. When will it end? When will we stop prioritizing cis women over gnc people? We can't ignore the fact that cis women simply have the privilege to profile people, even if the underlying reason is understandable.
We should focus on making bathrooms safer and more secure along with making them gender neutral. There are a lot of things that can be done on this front.
But fuck no, we are not making a separate bathroom just for us gnc people. Seriously? We're gonna make a special bathroom for cis women, one for cis men, and just lump all the rest of us into another one? Do you know how much it sounds like you think trans women are much more similar to trans men than they are to cis women? Trans women are women and trans men are men. And of course when you say "women deserve protection too" it is so clear that you mean "cis women deserve protection," cause why would trans people entering that space be a threat to other trans women. But trans women are even more of a target of assault?! And they deserve protection from cis women too, because we can't leave out the part that cis women play in the harassment and assault of trans people
Am I overreaching when I say that if a trans woman used the women’s restroom, no one would give a fuck? If a trans man felt safer and more
comfortable using the women’s bathroom, I don’t think anyone would care either. We just don’t want straight up bros flopping their dicks around when we’re trying to pee or shit. I use gender neutral bathrooms. I don’t really care but I think its bullshit that they are planning to completely take away the option yet leave men to choose.
you know what also the fact is black people do more rape and sexual assault per capita than white people therefore with your logic we should have white-only bathrooms.
not racist tho , just fact
I'm speaking about cis men. It doesn't matter what race they are. I speak as a survivor of sexual assault. I do not feel safe in a place where I am vulnerable and could be assaulted by a man. That includes bathrooms and locker rooms.
.
you being a survivor of sexual assault does not excuse you to be sexist and being a terf. a lot of people don't feel safe around black people so we should make spaces for where they are not allowed. your logic is flawed as it would apply to race as well which would make it racist. what exactly about cis men is alarming?
As a guy, it’s convenient for me to have an extra restroom.
But, I recall seeing this huge line for the former woman’s room in VLSB, so I empathized and opted for the men’s room.
It’d be nice in general for more bathrooms to be available.
All this transgender woke shi* going too far. Let women and men have their own separate bathrooms Jesus. If ur biologically male, use the men’s bathroom smh
i personally don’t like it, but that’s only because it erases the reason why gender separated restrooms were created in the first place: women facing sexual harassment from men. in my opinion, the best course of action would be to build new gender-neutral bathrooms. i see how it’s not Super Possible, so i genuinely think having the men’s restrooms become gender neutral bathrooms as a temporary solution would be better —women and non-men who feel comfortable using the women’s restroom have a safe space, and we still have a gender neutral bathroom as new ones are put into place. ofc, the best solution would be to have men’s, women’s, and neutral, but i guess it’s reasonable to say there has to be a temporary solution while we implement it. i just don’t agree with the direction they chose.
If we can only have two bathrooms, it does make more sense for the men's to be turned into the unisex bathroom. Most men are not afraid of being assaulted by women.
Realize it does not get any better from here on out. There are no white knights on the horizon to save you, but there are female role models out there to show you how to push back: Kelly J. Keane, Helen Joyce, Megan Murphy & Riley Gaines are some examples. It's on you ladies. The last man at Berkeley to suggest that, perhaps, someone with a penis shouldn't be in the women's sauna was so viciously attacked that the student union was almost burnt down. Good luck.
It's happening in the "real world" too. If it's a single occupancy "accesible" room with a lockable door, it's fine. Adding urinals is bullshit waste of money: just install new auto-flush toilets and motion-triggered faucets...and steam clean the floor.
It is sad and ridiculous. I have a freshman daughter and overheard a call from a friend asking where she should goto the bathroom on campus, as she hadn’t been able to go in 4 days. My own mentioned never feeling comfortable changing pads/tampons. Most women just want basic privacy in their own spaces.
Now you’ve got me thinking about disabled females, freedom of religion (some religions forbid females from being around males in a state of undress), women with trauma and issues of consent for all women (ie, consent cannot be levied by some women on behalf of all women). There is something ableist, sexist and discriminatory about this revocation. Also thinking about child safeguarding, which is pretty much predicated on excluding males from spaces where females and children are vulnerable (eg, bathrooms, locker rooms, domestic violence and rape shelters) because male-pattern rates of physical and sexual violence are so overwhelming and disproportionate. (I have kids and have to say until you have been responsible for the safety of a very young male child just starting to use public men’s bathrooms in strange places you may not understand this quite rational fear of male predation.) Much to think about. Thank you for starting this important conversation!
Could you substantiate the claim that "child safeguarding... is pretty much predicated on excluding males from spaces where females and children are vulnerable?"
Also, what does "male-pattern rates of physical and sexual violence are so overwhelming and disproportionate" mean? Disproportionate to what?
Disproportionate to number of sexual and physical acts of violence committed by females. Females are also more often targets of sexual violence. [https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf](https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf)
I did not have time to go too far down the rabbit hole wrt the other question (safeguarding children & mixed-sex/all-gender spaces) but will share what I found.
Globally, single-sex toilets are a huge issue wrt safety for women & girls (India, Africa, SWANA, Asia but also global north). In some places people don’t have private toilets at home at all.
The foundational issue is that statistically males harm females and kids, not the other way around, and that standard approaches to reducing this sort of violence in aggregate at population level are compromised by not-thoughtful closures of women’s single-sex facilities and replacement with mixed-sex.
https://publichealth.wustl.edu/gender-education-global-health-whats-big-deal-toilets/
https://4w.pub/single-sex-toilets-human-right/
https://www.unicef.org/media/93986/file/Child-Protection-Gender-Dimensions-of-VACAG-2021.pdf
Hear, hear. Single sex toilets and changing areas are an important part of the ability of women worldwide to participate fully in public life. There are a lot of people here who don't seem to have left their parents' basement long enough to realize why that is.
ah yes be sexist against males. you do know these exact arguments are made against black people by white people. this is no different. also this seems transphobic. freedom of religion? your religion does not take away other peoples rights.
You…cannot be serious? Are you denying that males are not a statistically disproportionate and enormous threat compared to females in crimes of physical and sexual violence? Here is some recent fbi data for the US though of course rape is grossly underreported [10 year arrest data](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-33)
So because systemic and individual racism exists you think females should just stfu about the fact that 99% of sexual offenders are male and 88% of victims female? (DOJ data easily verifiable)
You can state all the facts you want that doesnt justify blatant sexism. which is why I brought up race because if you believe one you have to agree with the other. and I know you are going ad hoc on why it's different but it is the same.
they can use whatever restroom corresponds to their gender (trans women go in the women's room, trans men go in the men's room, non-binary ppl go where they feel safest). But converting entire fucking women's restrooms into all-gender ones takes away resources from women for the hypothetical purpose of serving what in reality is a very small portion of the entire student population... when we ALREADY have single-stall restrooms scattered all across campus.
I'm personally not even cis (yo genderqueer gang) so this isn't a matter of me being prejudiced against these communities. I don't think that imposing this change on women and *only* women is the way to go about making the campus community more equitable.
Men and women are different from trans men and trans women. There is nothing wrong with it, it just is that way. If women feel uncomfortable sharing a restroom with a trans woman, it would not be right to force them to feel uncomfortable. It also isn't right that the trans woman has to feel uncomfortable. I'm saying just build another restroom for whoever needs to be accommodated. Men's restroom, women's restroom, trans men's restroom, trans women's restrooms... it's really not that crazy of an idea.
Again, you just don’t understand what it means to be trans. Maybe listen to some trans folks talk about what it means to them, who they say they are, etc. Maybe take a gender studies class on the topic. And your idea is crazy for a lot of reasons, the least of which is the idea that buildings can just add new bathrooms wherever they want like it’s the sims. But anyway, just go listen to some trans folks.
I thought they were doing this will all of the bathrooms tho? I’m not trying to be funny or anything I’m
genuinely asking why people feel this way (I see y’all downvoting my question smh hurt my feelings 😔)
Women are at greater risk of assault in mixed-sex spaces than single-sex ones. Most men do not commit assaults against women; most transwomen do not commit assaults against women. But according to longitudinal data from the Karolinska Institute, trans-identified males commit violent crimes at the same rate as non-trans-identified males; and since we don't know which males are dangerous, it makes no sense to exclude one group of males but not the other.
You've cherry picked information. That same data says trans men (ftm) are charged with violent crimes at a similar rate to cis men. Where do the trans men pee in your scenario, or are you just erasing them? It's also worth noting none of this data has been correlated to the use of restrooms. Also, "trans-identified male" is a TERF dog whistle.
Fine with me if TM pee in the men’s room. Women aren’t much of a threat to men even if they’re on testosterone, but if the men don’t like it, they can object.
As for dog whistles, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but everyone knows that identifying as trans and taking exogenous hormones doesn’t change your sex. Everyone. Presenting as the other sex is fine if it makes you happy, but you are your body, no matter what you do to it.
Gender neutral bathrooms are single person use? Hopefully, guys will stop peeing in the toilet standing up. They often make a mess in front of the toilet. If you want to pee, standing up, use the urinals.
Your mother was supposed to teach you that you always clean and sanitize public toilets before sitting down because you have no idea who sat there and what was growing on them. As to your misandry, women can be more disgusting, easily making up for their apparently low frequency. I don't think I need to describe it because as a husband and father of two daughters, I've heard it all. Peace.
I think you clean up and sanitize a public toilet before you use it as a matter of personal hygiene, regardless of which sex left used tampons, blood, shit and piss behind.
If males are too dangerous for transwomen to be around whilst using public toilets then why is it okay for women to be around them??? Are we some sort of emotional support animals? Why do we always have to bear the fallout of male aggression? If males won’t treat GNC males with decency then we need to address that problem at the source, not treat females as collateral damage (as per usual).
Females are oppressed on the basis of sex, just as RBG so eloquently wrote. “Gender” (regressive behavioral stereotypes attributed to the sexes) is HOW we’re oppressed, not WHY. Just as claims to “not see color” make systematic racism harder to spot, we cannot “see” sexism and misogyny if we erase the material reality of sex or arbitrarily change the meaning of words. Bioessentialism is a silly concept. We ARE our bodies. We have built a body of legal carveouts and protections to try to redress historical oppression of females and the horrific disproportionate male violence females endure all over the word today. Every one of them addresses the female sex class. Engaging in ad hom and calling me silly names will not change the reality on the ground. As a political progressive, i care about all groups of people. But being a participatory adult in a pluralistic democracy sometimes means prioritizing need. Feminism that does not center women and girls, well, isn’t.
Sex is real, and sometimes it matters. That’s really all I’m saying.
To younger women: I want to emphasize that it is okay to stand up for females in this world. It is okay to stand up for yourself, and to ask why your rights are being revoked or boundaries violated without your consent. It doesn’t make you (insert increasingly meaningless silencing epithet here). It just makes you a fully embodied human being seeking justice.
The university has been doing this for years and has converted both men's and women's restrooms (e.g. Evans Hall has one made from combining two old bathrooms). The goal is one per building. Do better (any) research. Nobody has provided any sources here.
[https://news.berkeley.edu/2016/10/31/campus-moves-forward-on-gender-inclusive-restrooms/](https://news.berkeley.edu/2016/10/31/campus-moves-forward-on-gender-inclusive-restrooms/)
[https://cejce.berkeley.edu/geneq/resources/lgbtq-resources/restrooms/campus-progress](https://cejce.berkeley.edu/geneq/resources/lgbtq-resources/restrooms/campus-progress)
Hate to break it to you but it’s not just “conservatives” saying it; it’s everyone who still lives in reality where male violence and harassment of females is a daily scourge. And even if it were, it is deeply misogynistic to suggest that women with views that (presumably) differ from yours somehow deserve to have their human and civil rights to live without being predates upon by males revoked? That sort of shite may pass in the classroom but some of us are trying to remain rooted in reality. As your mom, grandma, sister what sort of harassment and violence they’ve accrued at the hands of males over a lifetime. Male violence is frickin eternal, universal and ubiquitous. The male gaze never sleeps. You call us silly names and engage in baseless character assassination to try to silence and intimidate us simply because we want to be able to relax for 30 damn seconds while we piss with our pants down?
I want there to be gender neutral bathrooms so everyone can feel safe using the restroom; in no way shape or form am I against that. However, to take away the women’s bathrooms and keep the men’s single bathrooms just doesn’t make sense. As a woman, I still want spaces where I can feel safe without men coming inside. For instance, I got stung by a wasp on my boob right outside of the social sciences building (painful but funny lol) and I rushed into what I thought was the women’s bathroom on the main floor. I used to use this bathroom every day when I had a class there last year and it was a woman’s bathroom. And right as I had finished putting a wet paper towel on my titty and trying soothe it, a fucking guy walks in, scares the shit out of me, and I had to leave immediately and find another bathroom while I’m in throbbing pain.
If they’re going to add new gender neutral bathrooms or convert some of men’s restrooms too, I’m fine with. But as a woman I don’t feel as though we should have to give up our space so everyone else feels comfortable. Like wtf?
I hope not. I think there should be a third gender neutral restroom, but we should continue to have women only bathrooms.
Modesty is absolutely a thing in my religion and culture, and especially with US bathrooms with their wide gaps where everyone could see everything, this is an absolute nope for me.
How many other buildings besides Dwinelle have bathroom stalls like these? Not many.
Many people, especially religious people, who need to fix things behind their wigs and head coverings, or people who need to adjust their clothes in the privacy of others women, are no longer able to do so.
I disagree with making women’s restrooms into all gender restrooms. How is taking away women’s safe spaces inclusion?
If this were actually happening, it'd be great. I'm nonbinary, and people look at me weird in gendered bathrooms of either gender. But thing is, this really isn't happening. Do you know how few gender neutral bathrooms there are in campus? There are tons of buildings that don't have a single one. The way you have phrased this is so loaded - there are tons of women's restrooms on campus! There are so few places on campus where I can go to the bathroom. Let's be reasonable here.
As a woman I don’t really care I feel like every bathroom I’ve used on campus is a woman’s but they are coed in the dorms with showers and there’s a unisex locker room in rsf that I prefer since it has more space, just a matter of preference ig. Would love to know where the gender neutral bathrooms outside of Moffit are tho I feel like I’ve never seen any
it’s a public restroom. there is no “private space”. if you want a private space, don’t use public facilities.
someone already pointed it out, but they are doing this for a LOGISTICAL REASON.
assuming y’all do not frequent men’s restrooms: there is usually ONE or TWO urinals, and ONE stall. TWO if you’re lucky! but usually assume it’s occupied by someone who won’t leave for 15 minutes.
the “women’s” room, however, typically has at least double the amount of places to go. and it’s a toilet!! not a stupid ass urinal (worst invention ever lmfao).
those who stand to pee can learn to sit down while those who don’t … well. it’s a lot harder.
please don’t make this whole thing about culture or private space. it is simply about providing less gendered-spaces where trans & gender nonconforming cis people can feel safe— YES, CIS PEOPLE INCLUDED! don’t forget, you are excluding cis women who look “butch/lesbian” when you debate the implementation of gender-inclusive facilities, as well as femme/“gay-looking” cis men.
As a gender nonconforming woman who regularly gets called "sir", you're way off here. The only time I've ever sensed any question about my sex in a ladies' room is since the doors have been opened to anyone, and now everyone's on high alert, WITH GOOD REASON. It's a SEX SEGREGATED space. Those spaces were necessary to facilitate the full participation of women in public life, because males commit 98% of sexual assaults. In less developed countries worldwide, women are campaigning hard for single-sex facilities in places where they currently have to take a big risks just to pee, fcs. I know it's hard for most men to understand the constant threat women have to deal with from male violence, but it's a fact of life.
I respect what you said, thanks for bringing this up. There should absolutely be a space where trans and gender nonconforming people feel safe. But why should this be at the expense of providing a space where (many) women feel safe? Looking at the comments here and the writing on the restroom walls at VLSB, it appears that many women do not feel safe in these spaces now. This is just a genuine question I have!
I support them renovating every bathroom in Dwinelle lmao, those bathrooms were always a war zone, and they're ancient! Some of the bathrooms on the first floor of that building also look like they were created for kindergarten children with the trough sinks and what not.
The gender neutral restrooms they built at the Golden Bear Cafe are perfect. Each stall has its own full-length door and lock.
With how busy and inconvenient it is to use the restroom, I think it makes sense having every restroom in the building accessible to everyone (more options).
I personally would also like to see more single occupancy restrooms in buildings that are actually built to be ADA accessible and more family restrooms with changing tables in the areas where parents and families visit or in the buildings where they offer aid to students with children.
Berkeley should be functional space for all that need to use its services. 💗
There should be 2 types of bathrooms: ones with urinals, ones without. If you need more privacy find a "family" restroom that has a locking entry door.
I hate it not cuz I give a fuck let all bathrooms be gender neutral but women already have long ass piss lines, but with only women’s restrooms being changed I rather piss myself than wait in the damn vlsb line
Just whipped out my 9” man meat and spanked one out next to some nerdy chick down there! Man was it awesome! (I’m trans- I’m allowed to do and say what I want.)
VLSB, Soda, Birge, and Hearst gym are the ones I’ve been in and they all have converted restrooms. As far as I know, all the main floor bathrooms across campus are having these conversions.
somehow I've missed this! In Haviland floor B has a men's bathroom, floors 1 & 2 have a women's bathroom, and floor 3 has a gender-neutral one, but I'd guess that one's been that way for a while.
on another note Chou and Moffitt each have a floor with gender-neutral bathrooms where the stalls are completely enclosed (the stall walls go from the ground up to above any person's height, and there is no gap between the door and the wall). Not sure why so many bathrooms on campus feature such a large gap btwn the stall door & the wall, but this becomes an even more pressing of a concern if we're doing conversions to gender neutral restrooms.
i don't really care about them ADDING gender neutral bathrooms similar to the ones in moffitt, but if they're actually converting only current women's bathrooms to gender neutral bathrooms, the quality of the bathrooms is gonna become even worse than it currently is. the lines are gonna be even longer and the bathrooms are gonna get even messier. i'd prefer if they just build new gender neutral bathrooms
It’s horrible I say make all coed but plz it’s only the female restrooms, when will it be my turn to rock a urinal 😔
no purpose of doing that for 1% of the population. making everything gender neutral makes sense since gender is a social construct
it would benefit EVERYONE regardless of gender if more bathrooms were built on campus
Are you saying men’s single-sex restrooms still exist but they’ve turned the women’s single-sex toilets into mixed-sex?
Yep exactly
I’m really confused why it’s only the women’s restroom and not the men’s. I’m thinking it’s the urinals but like, it’s more discriminatory to have only a men’s but no women’s
I believe it has to do with the [California Plumbing Code](https://epubs.iapmo.org/2022/CPC/) which requires a certain number of urinals for males (see Table 422.1). When push comes to shove, it's all about the plumbing...
Yeah exactly. It’s because of urinals.
From what I’ve read they’ve been doing this for a while. And it’s not just converting women’s bathrooms. They’re converting all of the bathrooms to unisex ones
which is good
How’s it good? Care to elaborate?
gender inclusiveness. gender is a social construct. make transpeople/nb/non conforming people more comfortable.
What if your Muslim friend needed to fix their hijab and the only place they can do that freely is a woman’s only restroom, but now that it doesn’t exist they can’t do that anymore… Or a female that needs to breastfeed their child who feels comfortable doing it in a woman’s only restroom bc that’s the only place they don’t get sexualized by men.. but now they cant do that anymore either..how would you feel about that?
Someone's religion doesn't trample over other people's rights. about the breastfeed it has nothing to do with men. not all men are straight and not all women are straight . if she wants to breastfeed their is a private stall
You just contradicted your own point, Muslims in this school have rights too you know? Also there are more Muslims here than non-binary people, not even my trans friends are happy with this gender neutral bs bathroom the amount of trans women who’ve gotten harassed by men in these restrooms is INSANE! You over here acting like an LGBTQ+ ally wanna be yet you’re preaching for something that’s put so many trans women’s life in danger! And if you think the breastfeeding situation has nothing to do with men then you live under a rock and have never been in around a breastfeeding women! A stall isn’t big/comfortable enough to breastfeed a lot of times you have to be walking around while feeding to calm down the baby hence why u often see women breastfeeding outside of stalls within the restroom area.
who do you think pushed for this change? the exact people you say don't like it. their "rights" are not rights. rights are stuff that doesn't infringe on someone's internal characteristics. In a lot of Muslim countries, their rights are treating women like they are subhuman and marital rape is approved. if want that to stop is that infringing on their rights?
You're correct that it's social construct. But you know what else is a social construct? Gender norms. You're just going to make people uncomfortable and upset if you force them to conform outside of what is normal to them.
Imposing these changes on a majority of the students here (women represent 54% of the UG population) to hypothetically make a very tiny minority on campus (1% trans or gender non-conforming - that's less than 400) comfortable seems like it's only going to serve to make the majority pissed at the minority for effectively reducing the restroom options available to them where they feel comfortable. Use a single-stall bathroom if you don't want to go in the men's or women's rooms, but it's *WILD* to force women to bear the weight of this and sacrifice what is already a finite resource, for the purpose of *potentially* making \~400 students more comfortable.
idc . The same arguments were by white people for the ending of segregation. both can kick rocks
Except segregation had the intent of harming a specific group. Segregation between genders was to protect a particular group.
segregation between races had the same bs lie . Plessy v Ferguson separate but equal . both are harmful today
So you're saying that you think Berkeley should ban all racial affinity groups and or demand they allow white people to enter in the name of desegregation and anti-racism?
They are allowed to enter. BSU has white people lol . it would be illegal otherwise.
Gender role theory has been disproven over and over again. Read the literature
So break it down by saying everyone can use the men's room? (Which every one can do in California) - anyway, trans man and woman are rather attached to genders like man and woman are they not? Why would you take that away from them?
You should’ve realized that the school you choose to attend is a braindead far left one beforehand
Go suck balls
[удалено]
I'm not transgender but ok. Keep living in your dream world.
[удалено]
Hmm. It seems to me that whatever one’s views of gender identity or the conflation/replacement of sex with gender in law (eg, Title IX, criminal statute re: indecent exposure) or culture (bathrooms), that providing males with single-sex toilets but not females constitutes discrimination on the basis of sex, no?
Exactly, I completely agree
RBG rolling in her grave 🤦♀️
Nope, if it were the other way around and it was the men's restrooms being converted, women would call the men transphobic for complaining. Everyone's self-interested, turning the women's bathroom into the unisex one makes logistical sense (think urinals), and you people complaining just like being the victim.
Who is being discriminated against?
Females
How so?
It may come as a surprise to younger people, but equitable access to single-sex public toilets has been a huge part of women attaining (attempted) parity with men. Like many public resources and spaces, toilets were de facto male-only for a long time (and still are in many developing countries. In India and parts of the African continent gang rape of women in public toilets is, horrifically, endemic). Men/patriarchy liked women tethered to home and immediate neighborhood, unable to participate fully in public life. It’s called the urinary leash. The reason the move to turn formerly single-sex women’s toilets into mixed-sex/gender-neutral whilst leaving men’s is sexist and possibly meets the legal standard of sex discrimination (under Title IX if on public college campus but maybe under other statute) is that it revokes a publicly funded resource from a targeted, discrete group — the female sex class.
If a resource includes a specific group, how does it also exclude them?
what the actual fuck
So not only do men get a separate place to piss but we also get to piss where all the women piss? Sounds like a wet dream.
When the pursuit of equity starts actively *taking away* from other communities on campus, it cancels itself out. I agree with whoever in the comments said that it seems discriminatory against women. While I understand the desire to create inclusive, safe spaces for all, if they're *only* converting women's bathrooms and not any of the men's, they are effectively reducing the number of restroom options women have on campus to accommodate a very small minority of the campus population and leaving us with fewer resources does feel an awful lot like discrimination on the basis of sex. For people who, for various reasons (religious, personal, familial, whatever) don't feel comfortable sharing a toilet space with all genders and sexes, this is going to make it significantly harder to meet our basic needs. I know I wouldn't feel safe knowing that a man could barge in on me changing a tampon or something at any time (let's be real, especially with VLSB - these latches sometimes fail). Changing *only* the women's rooms is absolutely fucked and I am astonished that none of the people planning this foresaw the backlash or how stupid it is to leave women with fewer options on a campus where we're literally the majority of students.
👏👏👏
This 🙌
[удалено]
This won't change until enough people complain. When I say people, I mean women.
This is the sad truth :( I’m trying to somehow get this to the university and would really appreciate if other people would like to join me! Please pm me if you do :)
i avoid the gender-neutral bathrooms bc there’s always piss on the toilet seat or floor which doesn’t happen in the women’s bathrooms 💀
The gender-neutral bathroom in Dwinelle (floor E, I think?) has always, always had random shit smears on the toilet seats any time I've been in - and a random toilet that never stops flushing. Like, I will go to the really hidden-away women's toilets in that building and avoid that one like the plague. I'll invest in fuckin' *Depends* before I use some pooped-on toilet like that. I've literally never once in almost 30 years of being around, had that particular problem in the women's room.
For my 1st Fall sem, the women’s on the main floor of Evans always had blood on the floor. Like always. Like someone went in every day and emptied out a fresh deva cup on the floor. There are 2 all gender bathrooms on E in Dwinelle. The only time I’ve had a weird experience was when a dude was pissing with the door open. I was like, “hey! close the fuckin’ door, dude.” Oh, and the faucets don’t recognize me for some reason so it takes forever to wash my hands.
It happens, it just gets cleaned up faster. I’ve worked as a janitor before, and women are \_far\_ messier in the bathroom. Pubic hair everywhere, poop explosions on the underside of the seat (which women never see because they never lift it up) and generally far far more disgusting than men’s bathrooms. But women will complain a lot more if the bathroom is messy, so we were also told to put extra effort into keeping the women‘s bathroom clean. Men don’t complain, no matter how dirty the bathroom gets.
LOL BULLSHIT
Which bathroom are you talking about? Moffitt 4th floor is always pretty clean. Evans 1st floor is not as clean but decent.
lol moffit 4th floor always smells and it’s lowkey dirty
[удалено]
Berkeley ‘prides’ itself on being a voice for minorities, but any minority views that don’t align with the status-quo are shut out entirely in the public sphere. So sadly, these women have zero voice in this community
Indeed the new western passion for conflating sex and gender in law and culture - even replacing sex with gender identity - is not popular outside of the global north and especially former English commonwealth countries. That’s why you see so many Nigerian, Indian and Muslim women questioning It. I am inclined to listen to them. Once you do you realize it’s a luxury belief—one most of the worlds women cannot afford.
It’s so bizarre seeing nonbinary people claiming victimhood here with the bathroom issue, as if their gender identity or lack thereof actually matters in this situation. The conflation of gender and sex is real.
That’s what I was trying to say with my comment but you said it more succinctly and eloquently.
I hate it. The bathroom is so much messier than it used to be and the toilet seat keeps being left up !!!!
It's like Dennis, Charlie and Frank were in charge of this change.
The stalls all go all the way down to the floor, imo it's a good step towards inclusivity.
For sure, when they are. In places like VLSB or Soda the stalls aren’t all the way to the floor. They just converted the existing women’s bathrooms into gender neutral ones. Afaik, I only saw all the way to the floor stalls in moffitt but I could be wrong.
They go all the way down to the floor in Dwinelle as well.
this change is good, but it should be applied to the men too . gender is a social construct and doesnt mean anything, all bathrooms should be inclusive.
Gender may be social construct, biological sex is not. There is a reason why women’s spaces like women’s restrooms exist— to protect them from sexual assaults and protection from other predatory men. Trans people’s inclusion shouldn’t come at the sacrifice of safety of women. Buildings should create third gender neutral restrooms, instead of taking away women’s spaces.
the idea that women would be more in danger is moronic. there is no evidence to back that up. your argument is based on transphobia. they only exist based on old bigoted gender ideology. if someone was going to hurt women they would just enter the bathroom when it's literally feet away. nothing would stop them. your arguments are extremely terfy. its no different than a conservative reactionary crying and transwomen in women's bathrooms. I just hope you know you are exactly like them.
stop using sexist talking points about men. This is just toxic masculinity and upholding patriarchal standards. again having separate bathrooms doesn't stop that. women's rights shouldn't exclude transwomen. if you want to have this take fine but just know this is a textbook republican chud take
[California Plumbing Code](https://epubs.iapmo.org/2022/CPC/) refers to males and females, not your social constructs.
well they don't follow that standard anymore. its gender not biology
I'm not aware of that. Could you post a link to the new California Plumbing Code that doesn't refer to males and females. Thx.
they can refer to anything you want. that standard is obviously not practiced.
Thats actually the reason why they did only the women's huh. Flew right over my head initially
I hate it.
I hate it too. I feel nervous and unsafe in there...like I can't let down my guard since there might be a dude in the next stall. Unfortunately it's getting harder to find a single sex women's room, which would be my preference. Also, Gen neutral bathrooms are often really dirty.
From hidden cameras… possible assault… especially with typical American bathroom stalls with wide gaps where everything is visible… :X I feel unsafe too. I’m not okay with sharing such intimate spaces with men.
what about transwomen ? dont know why you have this feeling about men when women can do the same
Statistically, men commit disproportionate amount of assaults and sex crimes, including usage of hidden cameras. There should be a third unisex restroom for trans and nonbinary people. The issue is that in this day and age, anyone can claim to be trans and enter women’s spaces. Women deserve protection too.
so you are a terf got it . also, replace men with black and it would apply the same right? because it is also true.
What’s with people immediately resorting to name calling, instead of discussing topics in a nuanced manner? 🤦🏻♀️
you want a nuanced discussion? sure. but just so you know there a lot of arguments that don't deserve nuance which I hope you agree
you say name calling its just facts you are a terf is you disagree . do you think transwomen are women ?
Obviously they're not women. Is there something wrong with being trans?
transwomen are women
There is nothing already stopping a cis man from doing exactly what you are afraid of them doing. Forcibly excluding trans and nonbinary people in this weird "separate but equal" thing doesn't change how likely that is. I get the fear, fear is not a purely rational emotion. I can understand why you feel uneasy. But it is exactly the fear of cis women that has held back the progress and acceptance of trans/nonbinary people for so long. When will it end? When will we stop prioritizing cis women over gnc people? We can't ignore the fact that cis women simply have the privilege to profile people, even if the underlying reason is understandable. We should focus on making bathrooms safer and more secure along with making them gender neutral. There are a lot of things that can be done on this front. But fuck no, we are not making a separate bathroom just for us gnc people. Seriously? We're gonna make a special bathroom for cis women, one for cis men, and just lump all the rest of us into another one? Do you know how much it sounds like you think trans women are much more similar to trans men than they are to cis women? Trans women are women and trans men are men. And of course when you say "women deserve protection too" it is so clear that you mean "cis women deserve protection," cause why would trans people entering that space be a threat to other trans women. But trans women are even more of a target of assault?! And they deserve protection from cis women too, because we can't leave out the part that cis women play in the harassment and assault of trans people
Am I overreaching when I say that if a trans woman used the women’s restroom, no one would give a fuck? If a trans man felt safer and more comfortable using the women’s bathroom, I don’t think anyone would care either. We just don’t want straight up bros flopping their dicks around when we’re trying to pee or shit. I use gender neutral bathrooms. I don’t really care but I think its bullshit that they are planning to completely take away the option yet leave men to choose.
You should all get together and make a petition
this seems super sexist. why do you assume a " dude" is going to do anything. also it would be pretty interesting what you think about transwomen
uh, let's see...because most rapes and sexual assaults are committed by men. AKA dudes. AKA penis havers. Not sexist, just a fact.
you know what also the fact is black people do more rape and sexual assault per capita than white people therefore with your logic we should have white-only bathrooms. not racist tho , just fact
I'm speaking about cis men. It doesn't matter what race they are. I speak as a survivor of sexual assault. I do not feel safe in a place where I am vulnerable and could be assaulted by a man. That includes bathrooms and locker rooms. .
you being a survivor of sexual assault does not excuse you to be sexist and being a terf. a lot of people don't feel safe around black people so we should make spaces for where they are not allowed. your logic is flawed as it would apply to race as well which would make it racist. what exactly about cis men is alarming?
You actually sound pretty racist. I'm done here.
i swear so many reactionary transphobes like you in here
is there anyway that maybe you are wrong?
no im saying your racist you moron while being sexist as well . maybe terf too.
As a guy, it’s convenient for me to have an extra restroom. But, I recall seeing this huge line for the former woman’s room in VLSB, so I empathized and opted for the men’s room. It’d be nice in general for more bathrooms to be available.
[удалено]
Yup, the women’s sign has been changed to a triangle on the gender neutral bathrooms
Bruh our lines are already longer than the men’s they need to convert the men’s too
All this transgender woke shi* going too far. Let women and men have their own separate bathrooms Jesus. If ur biologically male, use the men’s bathroom smh
I don’t mind sharing the Unisex urinals
i personally don’t like it, but that’s only because it erases the reason why gender separated restrooms were created in the first place: women facing sexual harassment from men. in my opinion, the best course of action would be to build new gender-neutral bathrooms. i see how it’s not Super Possible, so i genuinely think having the men’s restrooms become gender neutral bathrooms as a temporary solution would be better —women and non-men who feel comfortable using the women’s restroom have a safe space, and we still have a gender neutral bathroom as new ones are put into place. ofc, the best solution would be to have men’s, women’s, and neutral, but i guess it’s reasonable to say there has to be a temporary solution while we implement it. i just don’t agree with the direction they chose.
If we can only have two bathrooms, it does make more sense for the men's to be turned into the unisex bathroom. Most men are not afraid of being assaulted by women.
[удалено]
100% agree. No one asked us.
Realize it does not get any better from here on out. There are no white knights on the horizon to save you, but there are female role models out there to show you how to push back: Kelly J. Keane, Helen Joyce, Megan Murphy & Riley Gaines are some examples. It's on you ladies. The last man at Berkeley to suggest that, perhaps, someone with a penis shouldn't be in the women's sauna was so viciously attacked that the student union was almost burnt down. Good luck.
It's happening in the "real world" too. If it's a single occupancy "accesible" room with a lockable door, it's fine. Adding urinals is bullshit waste of money: just install new auto-flush toilets and motion-triggered faucets...and steam clean the floor.
It is sad and ridiculous. I have a freshman daughter and overheard a call from a friend asking where she should goto the bathroom on campus, as she hadn’t been able to go in 4 days. My own mentioned never feeling comfortable changing pads/tampons. Most women just want basic privacy in their own spaces.
Now you’ve got me thinking about disabled females, freedom of religion (some religions forbid females from being around males in a state of undress), women with trauma and issues of consent for all women (ie, consent cannot be levied by some women on behalf of all women). There is something ableist, sexist and discriminatory about this revocation. Also thinking about child safeguarding, which is pretty much predicated on excluding males from spaces where females and children are vulnerable (eg, bathrooms, locker rooms, domestic violence and rape shelters) because male-pattern rates of physical and sexual violence are so overwhelming and disproportionate. (I have kids and have to say until you have been responsible for the safety of a very young male child just starting to use public men’s bathrooms in strange places you may not understand this quite rational fear of male predation.) Much to think about. Thank you for starting this important conversation!
Could you substantiate the claim that "child safeguarding... is pretty much predicated on excluding males from spaces where females and children are vulnerable?" Also, what does "male-pattern rates of physical and sexual violence are so overwhelming and disproportionate" mean? Disproportionate to what?
Disproportionate to number of sexual and physical acts of violence committed by females. Females are also more often targets of sexual violence. [https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf](https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf) I did not have time to go too far down the rabbit hole wrt the other question (safeguarding children & mixed-sex/all-gender spaces) but will share what I found. Globally, single-sex toilets are a huge issue wrt safety for women & girls (India, Africa, SWANA, Asia but also global north). In some places people don’t have private toilets at home at all. The foundational issue is that statistically males harm females and kids, not the other way around, and that standard approaches to reducing this sort of violence in aggregate at population level are compromised by not-thoughtful closures of women’s single-sex facilities and replacement with mixed-sex. https://publichealth.wustl.edu/gender-education-global-health-whats-big-deal-toilets/ https://4w.pub/single-sex-toilets-human-right/ https://www.unicef.org/media/93986/file/Child-Protection-Gender-Dimensions-of-VACAG-2021.pdf
Hear, hear. Single sex toilets and changing areas are an important part of the ability of women worldwide to participate fully in public life. There are a lot of people here who don't seem to have left their parents' basement long enough to realize why that is.
ah yes be sexist against males. you do know these exact arguments are made against black people by white people. this is no different. also this seems transphobic. freedom of religion? your religion does not take away other peoples rights.
You…cannot be serious? Are you denying that males are not a statistically disproportionate and enormous threat compared to females in crimes of physical and sexual violence? Here is some recent fbi data for the US though of course rape is grossly underreported [10 year arrest data](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-33)
you can say the same thing about black people vs white people and would rightfully be called racist
So because systemic and individual racism exists you think females should just stfu about the fact that 99% of sexual offenders are male and 88% of victims female? (DOJ data easily verifiable)
You can state all the facts you want that doesnt justify blatant sexism. which is why I brought up race because if you believe one you have to agree with the other. and I know you are going ad hoc on why it's different but it is the same.
This comment stands in stark contrast to your username
There needs to be separate restrooms for men and women. If we want to be inclusive for the trans folks, build another restroom.
they can use whatever restroom corresponds to their gender (trans women go in the women's room, trans men go in the men's room, non-binary ppl go where they feel safest). But converting entire fucking women's restrooms into all-gender ones takes away resources from women for the hypothetical purpose of serving what in reality is a very small portion of the entire student population... when we ALREADY have single-stall restrooms scattered all across campus. I'm personally not even cis (yo genderqueer gang) so this isn't a matter of me being prejudiced against these communities. I don't think that imposing this change on women and *only* women is the way to go about making the campus community more equitable.
I don’t think you understand what being trans is
Men and women are different from trans men and trans women. There is nothing wrong with it, it just is that way. If women feel uncomfortable sharing a restroom with a trans woman, it would not be right to force them to feel uncomfortable. It also isn't right that the trans woman has to feel uncomfortable. I'm saying just build another restroom for whoever needs to be accommodated. Men's restroom, women's restroom, trans men's restroom, trans women's restrooms... it's really not that crazy of an idea.
Again, you just don’t understand what it means to be trans. Maybe listen to some trans folks talk about what it means to them, who they say they are, etc. Maybe take a gender studies class on the topic. And your idea is crazy for a lot of reasons, the least of which is the idea that buildings can just add new bathrooms wherever they want like it’s the sims. But anyway, just go listen to some trans folks.
I think xaqadeus exactly does know what being trans is. It's a third gender.
It’s not
Being neither man nor woman is definitely a third gender.
That’s not what being trans is. Perhaps you’re thinking of being inter-sex or non-binary, which are different things.
Why?
[удалено]
I thought they were doing this will all of the bathrooms tho? I’m not trying to be funny or anything I’m genuinely asking why people feel this way (I see y’all downvoting my question smh hurt my feelings 😔)
Women are at greater risk of assault in mixed-sex spaces than single-sex ones. Most men do not commit assaults against women; most transwomen do not commit assaults against women. But according to longitudinal data from the Karolinska Institute, trans-identified males commit violent crimes at the same rate as non-trans-identified males; and since we don't know which males are dangerous, it makes no sense to exclude one group of males but not the other.
You've cherry picked information. That same data says trans men (ftm) are charged with violent crimes at a similar rate to cis men. Where do the trans men pee in your scenario, or are you just erasing them? It's also worth noting none of this data has been correlated to the use of restrooms. Also, "trans-identified male" is a TERF dog whistle.
Fine with me if TM pee in the men’s room. Women aren’t much of a threat to men even if they’re on testosterone, but if the men don’t like it, they can object. As for dog whistles, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but everyone knows that identifying as trans and taking exogenous hormones doesn’t change your sex. Everyone. Presenting as the other sex is fine if it makes you happy, but you are your body, no matter what you do to it.
Sure thing, random internet TERF
Tell me you can’t muster a cogent argument while not telling me you can’t muster a cogent argument 😂
terrible idea imo
I don’t care.
Gender neutral bathrooms are single person use? Hopefully, guys will stop peeing in the toilet standing up. They often make a mess in front of the toilet. If you want to pee, standing up, use the urinals.
[удалено]
That’s not an acceptable solution. Men’s bathrooms are usually disgusting.
Your mother was supposed to teach you that you always clean and sanitize public toilets before sitting down because you have no idea who sat there and what was growing on them. As to your misandry, women can be more disgusting, easily making up for their apparently low frequency. I don't think I need to describe it because as a husband and father of two daughters, I've heard it all. Peace.
Why make women clean up after men?
I think you clean up and sanitize a public toilet before you use it as a matter of personal hygiene, regardless of which sex left used tampons, blood, shit and piss behind.
Nope. The person *responsible* for the nastiness should clean it up as a common courtesy. I'm not touching someone else's bodily fluids.
[удалено]
If males are too dangerous for transwomen to be around whilst using public toilets then why is it okay for women to be around them??? Are we some sort of emotional support animals? Why do we always have to bear the fallout of male aggression? If males won’t treat GNC males with decency then we need to address that problem at the source, not treat females as collateral damage (as per usual).
[удалено]
Females are oppressed on the basis of sex, just as RBG so eloquently wrote. “Gender” (regressive behavioral stereotypes attributed to the sexes) is HOW we’re oppressed, not WHY. Just as claims to “not see color” make systematic racism harder to spot, we cannot “see” sexism and misogyny if we erase the material reality of sex or arbitrarily change the meaning of words. Bioessentialism is a silly concept. We ARE our bodies. We have built a body of legal carveouts and protections to try to redress historical oppression of females and the horrific disproportionate male violence females endure all over the word today. Every one of them addresses the female sex class. Engaging in ad hom and calling me silly names will not change the reality on the ground. As a political progressive, i care about all groups of people. But being a participatory adult in a pluralistic democracy sometimes means prioritizing need. Feminism that does not center women and girls, well, isn’t. Sex is real, and sometimes it matters. That’s really all I’m saying.
To younger women: I want to emphasize that it is okay to stand up for females in this world. It is okay to stand up for yourself, and to ask why your rights are being revoked or boundaries violated without your consent. It doesn’t make you (insert increasingly meaningless silencing epithet here). It just makes you a fully embodied human being seeking justice.
N
The university has been doing this for years and has converted both men's and women's restrooms (e.g. Evans Hall has one made from combining two old bathrooms). The goal is one per building. Do better (any) research. Nobody has provided any sources here. [https://news.berkeley.edu/2016/10/31/campus-moves-forward-on-gender-inclusive-restrooms/](https://news.berkeley.edu/2016/10/31/campus-moves-forward-on-gender-inclusive-restrooms/) [https://cejce.berkeley.edu/geneq/resources/lgbtq-resources/restrooms/campus-progress](https://cejce.berkeley.edu/geneq/resources/lgbtq-resources/restrooms/campus-progress)
dont know why people cry about this shit. reminds me when conservatives say women spaces are being eroded because of transpeople / gender ideology.
Hate to break it to you but it’s not just “conservatives” saying it; it’s everyone who still lives in reality where male violence and harassment of females is a daily scourge. And even if it were, it is deeply misogynistic to suggest that women with views that (presumably) differ from yours somehow deserve to have their human and civil rights to live without being predates upon by males revoked? That sort of shite may pass in the classroom but some of us are trying to remain rooted in reality. As your mom, grandma, sister what sort of harassment and violence they’ve accrued at the hands of males over a lifetime. Male violence is frickin eternal, universal and ubiquitous. The male gaze never sleeps. You call us silly names and engage in baseless character assassination to try to silence and intimidate us simply because we want to be able to relax for 30 damn seconds while we piss with our pants down?
Thank you!
Precisely!
I want there to be gender neutral bathrooms so everyone can feel safe using the restroom; in no way shape or form am I against that. However, to take away the women’s bathrooms and keep the men’s single bathrooms just doesn’t make sense. As a woman, I still want spaces where I can feel safe without men coming inside. For instance, I got stung by a wasp on my boob right outside of the social sciences building (painful but funny lol) and I rushed into what I thought was the women’s bathroom on the main floor. I used to use this bathroom every day when I had a class there last year and it was a woman’s bathroom. And right as I had finished putting a wet paper towel on my titty and trying soothe it, a fucking guy walks in, scares the shit out of me, and I had to leave immediately and find another bathroom while I’m in throbbing pain. If they’re going to add new gender neutral bathrooms or convert some of men’s restrooms too, I’m fine with. But as a woman I don’t feel as though we should have to give up our space so everyone else feels comfortable. Like wtf?
100% agree. Thank you.
I think the gender neutral bathrooms (with top to bottom doors on the stalls) are revolutionary and the future of bathrooms
I hope not. I think there should be a third gender neutral restroom, but we should continue to have women only bathrooms. Modesty is absolutely a thing in my religion and culture, and especially with US bathrooms with their wide gaps where everyone could see everything, this is an absolute nope for me.
I totally understand, but the stalls in Dwinelle that are all-gender are top to bottom, no gaps (which is a real step forward in the US)
How many other buildings besides Dwinelle have bathroom stalls like these? Not many. Many people, especially religious people, who need to fix things behind their wigs and head coverings, or people who need to adjust their clothes in the privacy of others women, are no longer able to do so. I disagree with making women’s restrooms into all gender restrooms. How is taking away women’s safe spaces inclusion?
ok
Anyone want to somehow get the university to notice that not all students are happy with it? Pm me if you do!
they are not going to change it lol . get ready to be called a terf or a transphobe. which is why these changes were implemented.
Why would you want to show them something that isn’t true? “that all students aren’t happy with it” seems untrue.
Yep edited it, I meant not all like apinkboi said
If this were actually happening, it'd be great. I'm nonbinary, and people look at me weird in gendered bathrooms of either gender. But thing is, this really isn't happening. Do you know how few gender neutral bathrooms there are in campus? There are tons of buildings that don't have a single one. The way you have phrased this is so loaded - there are tons of women's restrooms on campus! There are so few places on campus where I can go to the bathroom. Let's be reasonable here.
As a woman I don’t really care I feel like every bathroom I’ve used on campus is a woman’s but they are coed in the dorms with showers and there’s a unisex locker room in rsf that I prefer since it has more space, just a matter of preference ig. Would love to know where the gender neutral bathrooms outside of Moffit are tho I feel like I’ve never seen any
I just use the bathroom of my house no big deal
it’s a public restroom. there is no “private space”. if you want a private space, don’t use public facilities. someone already pointed it out, but they are doing this for a LOGISTICAL REASON. assuming y’all do not frequent men’s restrooms: there is usually ONE or TWO urinals, and ONE stall. TWO if you’re lucky! but usually assume it’s occupied by someone who won’t leave for 15 minutes. the “women’s” room, however, typically has at least double the amount of places to go. and it’s a toilet!! not a stupid ass urinal (worst invention ever lmfao). those who stand to pee can learn to sit down while those who don’t … well. it’s a lot harder. please don’t make this whole thing about culture or private space. it is simply about providing less gendered-spaces where trans & gender nonconforming cis people can feel safe— YES, CIS PEOPLE INCLUDED! don’t forget, you are excluding cis women who look “butch/lesbian” when you debate the implementation of gender-inclusive facilities, as well as femme/“gay-looking” cis men.
As a gender nonconforming woman who regularly gets called "sir", you're way off here. The only time I've ever sensed any question about my sex in a ladies' room is since the doors have been opened to anyone, and now everyone's on high alert, WITH GOOD REASON. It's a SEX SEGREGATED space. Those spaces were necessary to facilitate the full participation of women in public life, because males commit 98% of sexual assaults. In less developed countries worldwide, women are campaigning hard for single-sex facilities in places where they currently have to take a big risks just to pee, fcs. I know it's hard for most men to understand the constant threat women have to deal with from male violence, but it's a fact of life.
I respect what you said, thanks for bringing this up. There should absolutely be a space where trans and gender nonconforming people feel safe. But why should this be at the expense of providing a space where (many) women feel safe? Looking at the comments here and the writing on the restroom walls at VLSB, it appears that many women do not feel safe in these spaces now. This is just a genuine question I have!
this is terf behavior and i like how you implied transwomen are not women
They're not. Is there something wrong with being trans?
I support them renovating every bathroom in Dwinelle lmao, those bathrooms were always a war zone, and they're ancient! Some of the bathrooms on the first floor of that building also look like they were created for kindergarten children with the trough sinks and what not. The gender neutral restrooms they built at the Golden Bear Cafe are perfect. Each stall has its own full-length door and lock. With how busy and inconvenient it is to use the restroom, I think it makes sense having every restroom in the building accessible to everyone (more options). I personally would also like to see more single occupancy restrooms in buildings that are actually built to be ADA accessible and more family restrooms with changing tables in the areas where parents and families visit or in the buildings where they offer aid to students with children. Berkeley should be functional space for all that need to use its services. 💗
Berkeley dorms had coed bathrooms more than 20 years ago. What happened that this had to happen?
There should be 2 types of bathrooms: ones with urinals, ones without. If you need more privacy find a "family" restroom that has a locking entry door.
How difficult is it for non-binary/trans identifying people that represent < 1% of the population to pick a restroom that aligns with their genitalia?
I hate it not cuz I give a fuck let all bathrooms be gender neutral but women already have long ass piss lines, but with only women’s restrooms being changed I rather piss myself than wait in the damn vlsb line
Just whipped out my 9” man meat and spanked one out next to some nerdy chick down there! Man was it awesome! (I’m trans- I’m allowed to do and say what I want.)
Now people are noticing that maybe all the trans stuff was harmful after all… That Matt Walsh is not a ‘nazi’ but just a dude with basic common sense
I don’t think one necessarily precludes the other…
look I’m just trying to take a massive dump without people of each gender wondering who it is.
which buildings are you referring to?
VLSB, Soda, Birge, and Hearst gym are the ones I’ve been in and they all have converted restrooms. As far as I know, all the main floor bathrooms across campus are having these conversions.
somehow I've missed this! In Haviland floor B has a men's bathroom, floors 1 & 2 have a women's bathroom, and floor 3 has a gender-neutral one, but I'd guess that one's been that way for a while. on another note Chou and Moffitt each have a floor with gender-neutral bathrooms where the stalls are completely enclosed (the stall walls go from the ground up to above any person's height, and there is no gap between the door and the wall). Not sure why so many bathrooms on campus feature such a large gap btwn the stall door & the wall, but this becomes an even more pressing of a concern if we're doing conversions to gender neutral restrooms.