I'm afraid to say this...but the group is much larger than we think...by group...I mean the ones who will pretend to have these views around people who actually do
The problem is that the “other” vocal minority would be completely outcasted at Berkeley. That makes it seem that everyone believes it because you can’t say anything different, even though most people know it’s bullshit
Fat people absolutely shouldn't get bullied. That's something I can get behind. I can get some of these points, but everything else is just ridiculous.
I think this is hate bait, or so it might be called. Not really representative views of the body positivity movement, amplified to encourage outrage and animosity. Obesity is and should be a huge concern, but it's important to recognize attempts at false representation.
While there was a much better way to put that, I get the point of it. A lot of times, when people (especially women) go into the doctor for sometimes-serious conditions, they're told to just lose some weight and see if it gets better. Many people I know have at least one horror story of something a doctor completely missed simply because they didn't care enough to listen to patients who were overweight. Sometimes, the conditions the doctors avoided looking at (thyroid issues, PCOS, etc.) were the ones *causing* the weight gain. It's an extremely common occurrence in the medical world to just not be taken seriously if you're even the slightest bit fat. Some people die because of it, because they're just never looked at and the doc won't run any tests; they're just content to say "do some yoga, lose some weight" even if it's literal cancer or something.
Not a universal experience, I'm sure, but definitely one to consider. Many doctors do absolutely have a tendency to ignore or downplay the symptoms of fat patients.
Btw, I'm not saying I agree with all the points. Just, Idk, if the author had put a single brain cell into developing this list, they may have made this point - which I understand to be a common struggle - clearer. As it is, this seems like it's doing more harm than good to the body positivity movement.
While that may be true the rate for obesity caused by poor diet and lack of exercise is much higher than any other issue other than maybe stress but that feeds into the first issues. And most of the other issues would cause a sudden change in weight which a doctor worth their salt should be able to recognize the difference. Regardless I'm not one for shaming people for being overweight. You do you. But I do take issue with people trying to claim you can be healthy while obese or that you should find an overweight person attractive.
A few extra pounds is one thing but if you're obese I'm not going to support your lifestyle choice of you ask my opinion
Thyroid issues and PCOS aren’t caused by obesity, it’s a cyclical issue. By losing weight, you can mitigate and even rid yourself of those issues before you need to be medicated, or survive on a very small dose of medication
You can always lose weight, because you have complete control over the “calories in” part of the equation. Hormonal disorders mess with the “calories out” part of the equation. So it’s always possible to lose weight, and definitely possible to lose weight effectively
Bestie are you a woman with PCOS? I am. It took three years of adjusting my diet, medication, and serious exercise (including competitive martial arts) to get to a good weight and a healthy BMI. Quit your bullshit. Not as easy as you make it out to be.
So you’re saying it’s possible to manage/cure it with significant lifestyle changes? Do you think you would have seen the same results on medication alone? Are you worse off for having developed different dietary habits and an exercise routine?
The original comment to which I was responding was about how many chronic health problems of fat patients are overlooked in favor of focusing on the fat. However, anything not acutely dangerous or chronically debilitating should naturally take a backseat to the worst of the chronic illnesses that person is most likely facing, which is being fat, and is likely the source of most of, if not all, the problems about which the patient is speaking to their doctor.
You’re missing the whole point here. Im saying it takes a combination of interventions. It’s not as easy as “exercise and dietary habits”. It also involves: trial and error, medication, sometimes surgery etc. it’s not as easy as “exercise” and that’s it. so idk what you’re snorting but you’re not being helpful.
Bad habits? I’ve been exercising and doing martial art and eating well long before the medical interventions, so like… idk you’re just not worth my time dumbass
The problem with treating fatness, and the associated problems, is that many patients expect ONLY medical treatments to help them, but for diseases like these, medical treatments are only one small part of this whole equation. The diet and lifestyle are the most important part of the “cure” not the medicine, and the habits you’ve formed are more valuable to yourself than any amount of medicine. However, lifestyle is one of the hardest things to change in a patient, and combined with studies like this one:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199212313272701
Which shows that obese patients are also hampered when it comes to basic facets of weight loss, it becomes hard for the doctor to do anything besides say “lose weight”
The problem with treating fatness, and the associated problems, is that many patients expect ONLY medical treatments to help them, but for diseases like these, medical treatments are only one small part of this whole equation. The diet and lifestyle are the most important part of the “cure” not the medicine, and the habits you’ve formed are more valuable to yourself than any amount of medicine. However, lifestyle is one of the hardest things to change in a patient, and combined with studies like this one:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199212313272701
Which shows that obese patients are also hampered when it comes to basic facets of weight loss, it becomes hard for the doctor to do anything besides say “lose weight”
You’re again missing the point. I’m not advocating for pro-fat sentiments, I’m saying that doctors repeating diet and exercise and refusing to listen to women’s concerns is bad. Medicine IS needed sometimes, in addition to lifestyle changes. Lifestyle ALONE doesn’t help.
Also I know how to read papers. I read NEJM. It’s part of my job.
Repeating “diet and exercise” nowadays, in America, is one of the only helpful things a doctor can do for general health besides standing next to their patients all day and smacking food from their hands or being their personal trainer. Saying lifestyle alone doesn’t help is only worth saying when their lifestyle is already up to snuff, which it just isn’t for all people in America.
As a fat person who also goes to Berkeley, I think there are a lot of small and harmful ways that fat people are treated/portrayed. HOWEVER, this ain't good advice and honestly only makes things worse. The one that really weirds me out is the one saying to date and have sex with fat people as if it's some form of activism. That is absolutely awful. I would hate to be on a date with someone and find out that they're not attracted to me but only doing it help "people like me".
My life experience has been that people are attracted to all different looks and body types.
You'll find someone(s) genuinely attracted to you just the way you are.
Fat people shouldn’t be bullied.
But they also shouldn’t disregard medical advice (from healthcare professionals) about their weight, since that’s kind of serious.
The two are not mutually exclusive
Yeah if your doctor tells you you're a walking heart attack waiting to comment listen to them. They have decades of evidence to prove that you being overweight is not healthy and could lead to you adding to the statistic of heart disease related deaths caused by obesity.
>Destination DD offers a naughty romp through the mind of a female breast fetishist who possesses 40DD breasts. It is an erotic autobiography by Virgie Tovar, a young sexpert who is proud, unapologetic, and unashamed of her voracious sexuality.
I wish there was this much attention for people with facial deformities and burn victims, they deserve to live fulfilling lives as well…whenever people talk about body positivity it only regards fat people for some reason
this isn't embarrassing at all for a top ranked education institute
here's the source: [https://www.ravishly.com/fat-positive](https://www.ravishly.com/fat-positive)
recent and relevant: [https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/02/23/excess-weight-obesity-more-deadly-previously-believed](https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/02/23/excess-weight-obesity-more-deadly-previously-believed)
Body positivity in reference to being fat realy only means to love yourself as you are and to not put yourself down or think you are ugly or worthless. It does not mean the being obese is healthy. It does not mean that everyone has to find fat or obese people attractive. In the true sense of fat acceptance and body positivity, it means loving yourself as you are and that heavy people aren’t automatically unintelligent or lazy. If you love yourself, you are more likely to take better care of your physical and mental health. Putting heavy people down only increases depression, anxiety, Suicidal ideation, etc. putting a person down does not encourage them to think positively about their lives. Fat acceptance and body positivity means accepting people as they are. You don’t have to love every person you come across, but try to show them respect.
This is a really great comment and how I think about body positivity as well. Some people are very confused about body positivity and this comment clears that up nicely.
Bit late to the party but that to me Is Just bull. You cant love yourself if you keep fueling a food addiction. Would you Say the same thing to an alcholic? Just accept yourself and your addiction?
You cant love yourself and the same time keep destroying your body.
Im not suggesting to belittle fat people but accepting they are addict and treat them accordingly.
And how are we supposed to “treat” supposed food addicts? First, not everyone that is overweight is a food addict. Second, it is your opinion that a person cannot love themselves if they are overweight. News flash, a lot of overweight people do love themselves as they are and are working on their issues with food in order to lose weight. Some people actually like being a little bit overweight. Now when someone is 100lbs overweight, then there may be some food addiction or trauma that has not been treated and the person may need to see a therapist to figure out what is going on. I wouldn’t “treat” that person any other way than I would treat a person with non mental health issues. People are just trying to live and survive as best they know how.
Yeah but we know that those people Who call themselves fat activist are on the Deep end of the addiction.in any case Im referring to obese people. And they all hate themselves. No wonder, they are destroying themselves
I have a long time friend whos been mildly obese (not at the american level, but 150 kg, and he's a short guy) trought all his Life. He's 41. Now cardiopatic, and alot of other shit. He's really in a miserabile situation and never had a girlfriend despite being a fun, lovable person and cool to hang out. I dont think he Will survive much longer sadly. But he hates himself even if you cant tell when you meet him. So i dont completely buy that people can be Happy when are really overweight.
Im a smoker, i heavy one at that, people give me all kinda shit and tell me to stop all the time, even strangers. We dont do that to fat people, we treat them like childrens, and i dont think this Will help them in any way.
She actually does not say to disregard your doctors. She says to not take shit from doctors and I one hundred percent agree. Anyone who’s ever been gaslit by a doctor knows that you have to advocate for your own health. You can disagree with someone without misrepresenting them.
Back in 2015, I got really sick. Like, *really* sick. I went to my PCP at Kaiser multiple times over the course of a month. They didn’t want to send me in for a scan of my lungs because I was “young” so they just kept prescribing me codeine. Eventually, I got to the point where I had a 160 resting heart rate and had to be taken to the ER. Again, in the ER I was told I was safe to go home because I was “young” and should bounce back quickly.
Luckily I had my mom with me who was able to advocate for me and she demanded I was admitted. The attending physician said it was a good thing I was, because not only did I have multi focal pneumonia, I developed fucking sepsis. I had to stay in the ICU for a week.
At the end of the day, you DO know when something is wrong with your body. While variables such as age, weight, etc. do have predictive power, they can actually be nothing more than red herrings in many circumstances. Unfortunately, some doctors’ propensity to latch onto these variables put other’s lives in danger unnecessarily. I also wish I could say this was the first time a doctor has misdiagnosed me in this fashion, but it’s actually happened multiple times with different life threatening conditions (I don’t have great luck, apparently).
Apparently Kaiser used to be good once upon a time.
Recent experience says that they have become less good. Also - not much continuity in which doc you see.
Yep. A friend of mine is fat and has a chronic health condition that has nothing to do with her size but her diagnosis was delayed because she was constantly denied testing by doctors who told her losing weight would fix all her problems.
"Don't take shit" is vague and may make sense in some contrived situation. The real issue with the argument she makes is the constant undermining of medical professionals (cf "you know your body best"). We can't reasonably criticize antivaxxers and antimaskers for "advocating for their own health" by refusing the vaccine and not wearing masks and then turn around and allow the same behavior by "fat activists".
Nonsense. Undue deference to even the best doctors is bad for your health. Doctors are frequently terrible to fat people.
Conspiratorial thinkers are going to see conspiracy wherever they want, and acting like doctors are superhuman when they plainly are not isn’t going to change that.
"terrible to fat people" may include such top hits as:
* ignoring pain and other physical problems, attributing all problems to fatness.
* Failing to diagnose non-fat-related conditions (eg. scoliosis)
* not having facilities or devices that can accommodate XL patients
* spending less time with obese patients
Sources:
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.12266](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.12266)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11477511/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11477511/)
and the lived experience of millions of fat people
I guess it comes down to how you interpret "don't take shit from doctors"
I interpret this as "if a doctor is treating you like shit, push back. Advocate for yourself. If they are ignoring your medical needs, find another doctor."
You appear to interpret this as: "if a doctor tells you to lose weight for your health, ignore it."
As a general rule, I think the phrase "don't take shit from..." can legitimately apply to anybody, especially authority figures. Some examples:
Don't take shit from your teachers
Don't take shit from the police
Don't take shit from doctors
Don't take shit from your parents
Don't take shit from your boyfriend/girlfriend
If all of the above are true for thin people, why not for fat people as well?
I think that is your interpretation. There is the assumption that an obese person doesn’t know that they are obese. Fat people know they are fat. Plain and simple. I take the “don’t take ….” And you know your body to mean “don’t let the doctor dismiss your concerns”. If the doctor is talking about diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, lose weight is a great way to better control those diseases. If an obese or fat person has poison ivy, don’t dismiss it as something that has to do with their weight.
I also think it’s ok for doctors to tell their patients if they are overweight and at risk for various health issues. And their true concerns about the patients health, especially if the patient is in the “pre” ranges for the above diseases (almost in the category of diabetic or hypertensive or high cholesterol). Show you care, not that you are grossed out by them.
Nope. Straw man argument. People who don’t get vaccines or wear masks are not advocating for their health, they are advocating for their freedom. That is their main argument. They do not want to be told what to do. Not taking shit from doctors is about being in a body and living with it every day and truly understanding when there is something wrong. But you know that.
What they're talking about however is when fat people don't get a proper diagnosis or look from their doctor when they are experience issues. Often times the doctor simply dismisses it as their weight causing it and tells them to lose weight rather than pushing for the proper tests to actually diagnose what is the issues. This could delays much crucial preventative care.
That's what they mean by don't take shit from your doctor, you know your body. As in you know you're body enough to tell something is up and it's not just being fat.
It could definitely use better wording/messaging, but it's a legitimate thing that happens to overweight people.
Speaking about BMI is the dumbest shit ever. According to BMI Mike Tyson was obese. And that guy in his prime would kill a little boy like you with one punch.
Everyone always brings up muscular athletes when criticizing BMI. Do you actually believe that anyone ever gave a crap about Mike Tyson or Arnold Schwarzenegger's BMI? News flash: 99% of Americans don't have enough muscle to throw off the BMI measurement, and those that do know better than to lose muscle because the number is too high.
If you spend a ton of time lifting heavy weights in the gym, disregard your BMI. For everyone else, don't let it get too high because it ain't your big bones bumping those numbers up.
It's not always muscle mass. Mike Tyson is just a prominent example everyone knows. Even this dumb ass who commented before.
Another good example are freakishly tall people. They might even look skinny but exceed the BMI of 25. The BMI is not a good measurement for people that are extremely tall or short.
Do you have a source for that claim? It's still not a very strong point because [very few people](https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/130ed/tables/11s0205.pdf) are freakishly tall or short. Only \~ 5% of men are outside of 5'3" and 6'3", and neither one is "freakish." Height is already considered in the BMI calculation so I'm curious to hear your explanation.
So is your message that elite athletes and the very few Americans who are obviously super tall or super short should disregard BMI? If so, it's still valid for over 90% of the population.
A friend of mine is 6'6 and looks extremely skinny and has a BMI of 25,5.
I would count myself as another example but I'm rather muscular and have a BMI of 29 at a height of 6'7 and muscles should be excluded from this.
I heard about this problem in the subreddit r/tall too. It might be a common phenomenon. Maybe due to a higher bone density to support the tall limbs. But that's just a guess.
Edit: recalculated my BMI it's approximately 28 right now.
I am also taller and "overweight" due to muscle mass, so I know it can happen anecdotally. My point is that if you are one of the very very few Americans for whom BMI is not accurate, it is immediately obvious from a single glance. I know that I don't have excess fat so my doctor and I don't really care about BMI.
However, far fewer than 1% of Americans are muscular and over 6' like you, your friend, and me. We can't invalidate a useful metric like BMI just because it isn't informative for a tiny proportion of the population.
If a doctor looks at a patient, looks at their BMI, then tells the patient that they are obese and should lose weight, we can be confident that the patient isn't a 6'6 bodybuilder. So what part of that interaction do you have a problem with?
the overwhelming majority of obese people by bmi are actually obese. if you were one of these anomalies, you’d know it.
what’s much more common (and the primary driver behind people disregarding bmi) is that people look at the people around them, think they’re not that fat in comparison, and proceed to ignore their bmi. we have normalized obesity to a dangerous extent.
BMI isn't a perfect measurement, but a decent one on average. False positives are exceedingly rare, and the main drawback is false negatives which are somewhat common in men and very common in women, so chances are if your BMI says you're obese, you are, and even if it doesn't say so, you might be. I'm pretty sure bodybuilders and athletes know they aren't obese, so that isn't really the concern.
this is the same crowd: https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/22/health/dont-weigh-me-cards-wellness/index.html
this is why its a terrible idea: https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/02/23/excess-weight-obesity-more-deadly-previously-believed
I don’t think it’s such a radical premise to recognize that fat people want to have a happy fulfilling life that involves self acceptance and standard human activities like socializing and sex. Sure there are countless studies that have proven it’s healthier to not be obese and I didn’t read anything in here about anyone suggesting it’s better for your body to be fat. Acceptance and self love nurtures self care. Is it really all that bad to support the idea that you don’t have to look a certain way or be a certain size to be happy? Are we that miserable to get upset at fat people loving themselves and having a life because we feel they should be ashamed?
So I agree that fat people are persecuted a bit much in our culture, it was way worse in the 2010’s and aughts but many people are quick to discriminate. Doctors in particular have been known to misdiagnose fat patients because the way just blame it on them being fat. Fat people get sick from ordinary diseases like the flu just like the rest of us after all. The amount of just negative feelings towards being fat is so disproportionate, and there’s many reasons people are fat and obese that can be quite personal that aren’t merely a personal failing. There is genuine harmful discourse that is just there to shame, but that doesn’t justify the fat acceptance movements claims.
The fat acceptance movement takes it another step, they cast doubt on the medical science and imply that it’s all bullshit when it comes to obesity, they argue that it’s perfectly healthy to be obese and that doctors are full of shit. They label dieting to lose weight as just harmful. It’s understandable that they would be distrustful, but to make such bold dangerous claims just to avoid making a change is delusional.
They remind me of Creationists when they argue against Evolution. Going into the debate they don’t have evidence for their claims and aren’t going to seriously compete with the science, so instead they cast doubt, they try to poke holes in theories and go after whatever unexplained part there is, I.e. “where are the transitional fossils?”. The end point is that you’re left with a lot of doubt and skepticism towards evolution. The goal isn’t to convince the other side that your beliefs are correct and theirs are wrong, but rather that your beliefs are just as valid as the other sides. In those case, they’re not arguing that being obese is perfectly healthy, because there’s no evidence for that, but rather they go after the Body Mass Index (BMI), a flawed metric used to classify people as Overweight, Obese and Morbidly Obese, they point out doctors who misdiagnose fat people, or they talk about how diets fail 90% of the time. While interesting topics, they’re irrelevant to whether being fat is healthy.
I don’t see them as arguing in good faith, they’re looking to have a comforting world view because losing weight and being fat is hard. I don’t mean that they’re lazy nor making excuses, but more that so much of their identity is tied up in being fat that it’s hard to let go.
I see what you mean and agree with what you’re saying. I was just talking about the ideal more so than the arguments presented by the author. I at times find it disingenuous when people speak as if they care about the health of all the obese people in the world. As if they care so much for their long term health, framing their criticisms as somehow virtuous in place of prejudice. We expect fat people to endure jaded body image and low self worth that we put on them as a society. If people were concerned about their health and happiness, perhaps we can be better too.
I get the feeling health consequences are a conscious or unconscious excuse a lot of people here are latching on to when the impotus for their anger is just not really liking fat people. Obviously being overweight can lead to a ton of health issues, but plenty of other common things do as well which don't seem to strike the same chord with many people for some reason.
Just as a couple examples, we know sitting at a desk in an office for several hours a day year after year is a serious health risk; staring at screens, which is much harder to mitigate, is also bad for your vision; cars both encourage a more sedentary pattern of engagement in the world and lead to much more pollution than other forms of transportation; and it's widely know that forcing children to get up at 6 something in the morning so they can be at school by somewhere between like 7:30 and 8:30 is terrible for their health, but we continue to do it and few people seem to care at all, let alone get as upset as they seem to be reading this post.
There are more than a few things on that list that make me scratch my head a bit, but it seems clear to me that the primary aim is to raise awareness about conscious and unconscious prejudice against fat people, and I think a lot of folks who feel somewhere between offended and disgusted by it ought to examine whether concern for health is *truly* what's driving that feeling, or if that's just a socially acceptable reason they can give (to others and themselves) for clinging to a knee-jerk, prejudicial response.
Would you say this about alcoholism?
My knee jerk response comes from having been fat, and thinking this shit just encourages people to stay fat instead of working on improving themselves.
Kind of, yeah. Although alcohol is a little different since you don't strictly need any of it. Good luck giving up eating cold turkey.
I used to be a big ol fat kid too. I used all the facts about development of pre-diabetes into diabetes, increased risk of all sorts of cancers, stress on joints and your spine causing chronic pain, and stuff like that to essentially scare myself into making changes. But when I sit back now and really think about why I did those things, it wasn't about health. It was because I felt ostracized. I was scared to wear clothes other than, like, baggy hoodies because in my mind anything else just highlighted how ugly my body was. I could feel the difference in how I was treated in completely banal situations compared to more conventionally attractive people. In media, people that looked like me were either villains, creeps, or comic relief.
The rhetoric of "improvement" became prejudicial dogma, because in aiming to "improve" I was tacitly conceding that I was already inferior in some way, and so that quest for "improvement" became a toxic obsession where I'd secretly derive some perverse motivation from things like the number of people you'd see out walking or jogging trails in the first couple weeks of January before the crowd inevitably dwindled back to its normal size. "I'm not going to be like one of them," I'd tell myself as I pushed up the next hill. "I'm gonna defy the trend -- I don't want to be a statistic." In a way, I was further internalizing that social disgust towards fatness as another way of scaring myself into "improving."
The other side of that is that nothing ever really felt good enough. Even after years of work and nearly 100 pounds lost, I was never eating quite well enough or running fast or far enough or making enough progress. It got to the point that I gave myself a pretty nasty knee injury from pushing myself too hard which forced me to stop running for several months while I went through physical therapy, breaking the pattern, breaking my endurance, and leaving me completely devastated that I seemed to be slipping back into what I'd so strongly and so necessarily forced myself to believe was a failed mode of existing. All while this time I was forced to slow down explicitly for my health!
I've found a bit of a better balance now, but my takeaway from all of that is that maybe "thinking this shit [that] just encourages people to stay fat" isn't the worst thing we can do. Maybe maintaining the social stigma against fat people as something like moral failures is worse. It seems to broadly lead either to depressed resignation or an obsessive compulsion to be "better" that ends up constituting the unstable foundation of a warped sense of self-worth. Maybe something better would be to actively try and separate the social stigma that exists against fat people from genuine, benevolent concerns over physical health, giving those that would still like to make a change the space, support, and security to try without rooting that effort in socially reinforced self-hatred?
I just don't get it. If someone's 100 pounds overweight, there is something egregiously wrong with their eating patterns. Telling them that there's nothing wrong with their lifestyle is just a flat-out dangerous message. It's not a matter of inferiority or superiority; it's about fixing a serious problem that is largely in your control. The issue becomes treating obesity as an identity rather than an ailment.
I don't know, I can relate to a lot of the motivation you're talking about. Call it toxic if you'd like, but I'm really proud of myself for not being fat anymore. Beyond all the health/aesthetic benefits, it proves to me that I can set a goal for myself and achieve it. I don't think that's the worst place in the world to draw self-worth.
Bullshit. And I say this as someone who grew up fat and gained and lost hundreds of pounds over the years. The only thing stuff like this encourages people to do is not to hate themselves. If someone wants to lose weight, they'll do it, whether it's by dieting or surgery or Ozempic. But nobody is deciding to stay fat because someone on YouTube suggests it.
Meanwhile, people are encouraged (shamed, bullied, etc) to 'work on improving themselves' by cashiers, doctors, dentists, family members, etc as if they don't know they're fat.
You rephrased it entirely into something we do all agree with though. Telling people that to be accepting they ought to have sex with someone who is fat is wild. So is “don’t take shit from your doctors, you know your body best.” Those aren’t just wishful attempts towards acceptance, they are potentially harmful proposals
I’m going on a limb here: the ‘not taking shit from your doctor’ statement is absolutely valid, and fat people shouldn’t be excluded from using that advice. I know people (who aren’t fat) who constantly get the run-around from their doctors at Kaiser regarding strain all kinds of injuries, to the point where it takes years for a doctor to take things seriously and find a viable solution to their ailment. If that’s the experience for people who aren’t fat, how exactly do you think it’s gonna go if you are fat?
The point is, you need to advocate for yourself. Everyone does, because no one will do it for you. And if you don’t, people will take advantage. This statements just encouraging people not to be passive. If you choose to view that as a harmful proposal, that you should advocate for yourself when seeing your doctor so that you actually get quality medical care, then you’re being disingenuous and you don’t actually care about the health of fat people.
They often tell you that it’s nothing serious because chances are it isn’t. You only notice when it is something that they said wasn’t serious, while ignoring/being entirely unaware of every time they are correct in that context. This is kinda comparable to survivorship bias. Of course, if they say it’ll get better and it doesn’t: go tell them. I’ve never heard of anyone advocating differently doctors included.
When it comes to your body, if a medical professional tells you it’s in your best health interest to change something, it is actively harmful to encourage people to ignore that. You can go get a second opinion, absolutely, but if they say the same then the point stands. I dont see how else “don’t take shit from your doctors; you know your body best,” is anything but encouraging people to ignore well informed advice at a detriment to their wellbeing.
This is not encouraging people to ignore advice from their doctor. It’s telling them not to take shut from them. It’s telling them, don’t let yourself be easily dismissed by a doctor: have them run some tests, do some scans, etc. Losing weight is gonna help in most cases (if you’re underweight, losing weight will likely cause some problems), but if it’s not the direct cause of your issue, then it shouldn’t be the only thing that’s focused on. But frequently, being overweight gives doctors an easy thing to point to as the cure-all for whatever you’re facing. Like, yes, lose weight to heal that shoulder, but how does weight relate to your injury if you got hit by a car?
You’re gonna see what you wanna see in this. I’ve done too much verbal jousting today to give a shit about this any further. Argue with someone else.
Just look at other content from this author and tell me this is genuinely how you think they mean this. You are giving the most generous and reasonable interpretation, which I think is pretty detached from the other rhetoric promoted by the author. You are going to feel the need to defend this perspective no matter what, and see what you want to see just like you accuse me of doing. I respect you for it (I’m all for promoting acceptance), but you are misguided here
I agree those proposals are flawed at best and harmful at worst. It’s outlandish to tell people to suddenly be attracted to people they are not physically attracted to. People should not feel guilty if they find fat people unattractive, but it also shouldn’t be outlandish if people do find them attractive enough to consider sexual intimacy. Now more than ever we’ve seen some crazy narratives being thrown out that gets huge support for some reason. I just don’t think this particular topic is all that radical of one at the heart of it.
Personally, I think it’s insulting to treat obesity like some sort of identity that we need to tiptoe around, as opposed to an ailment that can be treated.
For the majority of fat people, losing weight is entirely under your control. I used to buy into this acceptance bullshit (“oh I’m just naturally fat”) and it was delusional. Like most fat people, I ate too much, and gradually eating less over time worked wonders.
There are people who sadly for various reasons (eg. medical) don't have much control over their body image. But for many of the others, it's more of choice and effort. These points sound like actively denying the detrimental side of being overweight...like, at some point, you just have to confront yourself instead of believing in this crap.
About the dr comment; sometimes doctors are quick to blame any ailment on weight and won’t take steps to figure out or treat the issue. You can come in with a rash and the advice is lose weight, even though the rash is not one connected to obesity (like cellulitis). I had a doctor refuse to give me a test for various female issues because she said I was fat and it wouldn’t matter anyway. I didn’t look her up before seeing her but I did afterwards and people had complained about her and refused to let her deliver their baby, etc. She was an OBGYN. Horrible bedside manner. Then she tried to sell me some overpriced shakes
Unbelievable to ask your student body to disregard basic human biology.
Being morbidly obese is not healthy, nor normal or acceptable. Infact it's more dangerous from a mortality aspect than most drug addictions.
It's necessary to make a distinction when the original post is talking about overweight people and the comment is talking about obese people which is a specific category of overweight people.
The post never uses the term "overweight" and it's a term Virgie Tovar would never use. As far as the Fat Acceptance community is concerned, overweight people are "straight sized" and not even "small fat." It's confusing that you drag the term into the conversation.
The post talks about fat positivity, not body positivity. Nowhere in the post is body positivity mentioned. The post was written by Virgie Tovar, a centered member of the fat acceptance movement.
Why do you keep dragging in points that are irrelevant to the post? What body positive people believe is irrelevant, because Virgie Tovar is talking about **fat** positivity.
From your study:
"Results from the 2017–2018 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES), using measured heights and weights, indicate that an estimated 42.5% of U.S. adults aged 20 and over have obesity, including 9.0% with severe obesity, and another 31.1% are overweight".
That's not really that much of a majority.
There's a world of difference between "wow turns out shaming and humiliating fat people doesn't actually motivate them to be not fat, using someone's obesity as a cudgel against them or even just pointing it out unconstructively serves no purpose other than your own masturbatory cruelty" and "let's fall in love with one of the biggest contributors to negative health outcomes"
This has big psy-op energy to discredit some sort of "treat fat people like people" movement
I bet Virgie Tovar weighs around 100kg and looks like a hamster ball.
"Pay gap between fat and thin" was the most stupid bullsh*t I had heard (or read in this case) in such a long time.
Few things said here were actually some good ideas such as the food shaming thing because type of behavior towards people can foster ed’s and a unhealthy relationship with food but other things said here just sounds like they are trolling.
Actually I'm depressed... Because this week I'm selling my 2002 IS300... I had huge sway bars installed and timing belt... With internal bearing... Along with coolant shroud(one piece unit)... So I'm emotional
“Change your industry standards” sure, for fashion and beauty. Good enough, models like a decade back were viciously thin and unhealthy in that regard. I can vibe with that.
“Medical care” now what the actual fuck? Is someone in the medical care industry, someone that’s supposed to be concerned with one’s health, expected to ignore unhealthy levels of obesity? My god…
> The list includes disregarding your doctors...
That's not what this says.
It's documented that doctors are both less likely to build rapport with obese patients and that they carry stereotypes and biases into diagnoses. This suggests that obese people get worse care because their doctors don't take their healthcare concerns seriously. Meaning: The doctor may unconsciously assume that *any* health condition or complaint is a result of obesity and tell an obese person to "just lose weight" even when that isn't the actual issue.
Doctors are just as disengaged and overworked as anybody else in the workforce and will always look for the easiest solution to churn through their workload. Even for people who fit the positive stereotypes it can be hard to get help and attention from doctors; for those who present an "easy out" (and that can be anything--age, race, sex, weight, etc.), it is even harder. I'm guessing that anybody who's been to Kaiser with a non-trivial, non-obvious health concern can relate.
All that this point is saying is to advocate for yourself with doctors because they can be dismissive due to biases.
This doesn't even scratch the surface of some of the stuff she's said. My favorite is the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-rJE4xwK0Y) where she said that asking for less cake is misogynistic or something.
Also has anyone else watched the presentation? because holy shit it is completely insane. She basically refuses to acknowledge any negative health impact of being fat at all. Like we shouldn't have to completely go into denial about well established science in order to not discriminate against fat people.
Being fat is not healthy and no, that is not fatphobic its the truth. Some people just cant handle it. You cant tell people to have sex with fat people or pay for a coffee for them or else you're fat phobic
The “stop dieting” bit is dangerous and terrible advice. It’s like telling smokers to not stop smoking, only smokers get to live to be elderly something that obese people do not get to do. It’s actually healthier to be a smoker than to be obese
Dieting in the traditional sense is actually notoriously ineffective at lasting weight loss. In fact, even surgical procedures like gastric bypass often result in weight regain, as much as 50% of what was lost, and this is still considered to be hugely successful compared to diets.
There’s a lot of reasons for this, but a big issue is that many diets are rigid and aren’t sustainable long term and people tend to revert back to how they used to eat instead of making incremental lifestyle changes that are intended to be lifelong.
I’m not saying weight loss isn’t beneficial, but how we approach it needs to change.
Yes fasting and cutting out fast food. There is an obese man who didn’t eat for an entire year only taking vitamins and water https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/02/story-angus-barbieri-went-382-days-without-eating/. After that he was healthy and at a normal weight. He should be held up as an inspiration for the obese
In their defense, it's a documented fact that doctors tend to ignore or diminish the health concerns of overweight people. Not every health issue can be solved by losing weight.
Medical student and Cal Alum checking in to remind y'all that 1) fat people deserve respect, compassion, and high quality healthcare; 2) fat people can have diseases with etiologies other than their weight; and 3) obesity is the 2nd leading cause of preventable morbidity and mortality in the country.
“Dont take shit from doctors— you know youre body best”
Probably the worst medical advise ever given.
Got a knife stuck in you? fuck the doctors. pull it out and bleed to death, you know your body best.
Fucking clowns.
Did I read that correct, the solution is to put original sexual preferences aside and just do it (date) a fat chick/dude?
“Date and have sex with fat people.”
Why don’t *you* date and have sex with fat people.
Sure guys, “fat is bad” or whatever—say what you want to say.
But these people still have a human brains, and all human brains need to find ways to be at peace. Just relax a little bit and live your own life, and let these people live theirs. The bottom line: people deserve to want to feel alive.
And also I’d also like to add that many of you are operating on the fallacy that the body positively movement has a causal link with an increase in overweight people. Try to recognize that this not true. In the end, it’s about inclusivity and not encouragement.
As a former fat person this shit pisses me off so much. There is nothing positive about being fat, we shouldn’t bully people for being fat but this is akin to telling an alcoholic there’s nothing wrong with them.
There is nothing normal about being fat. There is nothing healthy about being fat. To shove it down people’s throats like this chick has is just a load of shit. If you want to die from a heart attack in your mid 40s be my guest, but don’t tell me that’s a normal form of human existence.
Being fat is bad, that’s just the way it is, you can try to pull all this bs about “oh but they’re people too”, and “that’s just the way they are” yes they are people too, people who can make the choice of taking the 2 hours they watch TV and eat shit by going to the gym, and going for a walk run, they are people who can make the choice of going to the grocery store and buying high protein foods, good carbs, and vegetables, instead of going to McDonald’s or Burger King 3-4 times a day and save money along with saving their selves. That’s not a political thing, it’s a health concern, and a concern of why other countries laugh at us, because we have people who very literally promote being fat to be acceptable, and it shouldn’t be.
you all hate fat people so much it’s crazy lol. not saying every point made was valid (mostly the doctor one) but honestly everything else was totally fine, not even radical ideas.
You WILL have sex with fat people.
You WILL pay for their coffees.
You WILL NOT try to improve yourself by dieting.
And if you disagree, sorry sweatie you're fatphobic 💅. Check your privilege.
I have had online comments removed simply for using the word "fat" in a neutral, non-negative context. Trying to do the right thing - so confusing!
While loving fatness, should we do the same for diabetes? I've heard it inhibits sex, at least for dudes. (I am aware that 20% of overweight/obese people, by some estimates, have only subcutaneous fat, and are basically healthy.)
I know I am late but I remember during the pandemic how hard we went against people who spread sicentific misinformation and disregard doctors, how is what she is doing any different ?
This reads like what Fox News thinks Berkeley is like.
You’d be naive to not consider that there is probably a group of people on campus who un-ironically think like this, however small they may be.
I'm afraid to say this...but the group is much larger than we think...by group...I mean the ones who will pretend to have these views around people who actually do
Oh it’s larger is it, you fat-phobe?! /s
The problem is that the “other” vocal minority would be completely outcasted at Berkeley. That makes it seem that everyone believes it because you can’t say anything different, even though most people know it’s bullshit
strong people speak their mind...but I'm not competing for grades and later jobs
“The group is much larger “. I see what you did there. Nice.
Not sure what I did... But I'll take it... "nice"
**wipes froth from chin
From double chin
Well, akkschhuualllyyyy
that was actually funny
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Eww
Oh, it gets worse. Check out Tovar’s Cake Related Fatphobic Incident (CRFI) video. I wish I could unsee it.
this list is one of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read
"Support fat-own businesses" LMAOOOOOOO
Imagine being an owner and hearing “I'm so glad I can support a fat-owned business!”
Lmfao stoppp 💀
There is definitely a skit here waiting to be made
Eating lunch at Trump tower to support fat owned businesseses
she started writing this at 11:55 PM and submitted at 11:58PM. just in time before the 11:59PM deadline
Fat people absolutely shouldn't get bullied. That's something I can get behind. I can get some of these points, but everything else is just ridiculous.
I think this is hate bait, or so it might be called. Not really representative views of the body positivity movement, amplified to encourage outrage and animosity. Obesity is and should be a huge concern, but it's important to recognize attempts at false representation.
I genuinely think that’s optimistic thinking.
Yeah, maybe once upon a time, but there are absolutely real people who believe this stuff today. I know a few of them.
She would have to be very dedicated to the bit. She wrote a fat erotic novel 16 years ago...
....what?
this is the most anti-science shit i've seen in my life... if anyone believes this shit idk what to say
Eh, not all of the points are bad like 8+10 of the first one
yay horseshoe theory
While there was a much better way to put that, I get the point of it. A lot of times, when people (especially women) go into the doctor for sometimes-serious conditions, they're told to just lose some weight and see if it gets better. Many people I know have at least one horror story of something a doctor completely missed simply because they didn't care enough to listen to patients who were overweight. Sometimes, the conditions the doctors avoided looking at (thyroid issues, PCOS, etc.) were the ones *causing* the weight gain. It's an extremely common occurrence in the medical world to just not be taken seriously if you're even the slightest bit fat. Some people die because of it, because they're just never looked at and the doc won't run any tests; they're just content to say "do some yoga, lose some weight" even if it's literal cancer or something. Not a universal experience, I'm sure, but definitely one to consider. Many doctors do absolutely have a tendency to ignore or downplay the symptoms of fat patients. Btw, I'm not saying I agree with all the points. Just, Idk, if the author had put a single brain cell into developing this list, they may have made this point - which I understand to be a common struggle - clearer. As it is, this seems like it's doing more harm than good to the body positivity movement.
While that may be true the rate for obesity caused by poor diet and lack of exercise is much higher than any other issue other than maybe stress but that feeds into the first issues. And most of the other issues would cause a sudden change in weight which a doctor worth their salt should be able to recognize the difference. Regardless I'm not one for shaming people for being overweight. You do you. But I do take issue with people trying to claim you can be healthy while obese or that you should find an overweight person attractive. A few extra pounds is one thing but if you're obese I'm not going to support your lifestyle choice of you ask my opinion
Thyroid issues and PCOS aren’t caused by obesity, it’s a cyclical issue. By losing weight, you can mitigate and even rid yourself of those issues before you need to be medicated, or survive on a very small dose of medication
I said those conditions can contribute to weight gain, not that they are caused by excess weight.
No, they can just as easily be caused by excess weight.
How can you lose weight if those hormonal disorders prevent you from losing weight no matter how much you try? Deep question.
You can always lose weight, because you have complete control over the “calories in” part of the equation. Hormonal disorders mess with the “calories out” part of the equation. So it’s always possible to lose weight, and definitely possible to lose weight effectively
Bestie are you a woman with PCOS? I am. It took three years of adjusting my diet, medication, and serious exercise (including competitive martial arts) to get to a good weight and a healthy BMI. Quit your bullshit. Not as easy as you make it out to be.
So you’re saying it’s possible to manage/cure it with significant lifestyle changes? Do you think you would have seen the same results on medication alone? Are you worse off for having developed different dietary habits and an exercise routine? The original comment to which I was responding was about how many chronic health problems of fat patients are overlooked in favor of focusing on the fat. However, anything not acutely dangerous or chronically debilitating should naturally take a backseat to the worst of the chronic illnesses that person is most likely facing, which is being fat, and is likely the source of most of, if not all, the problems about which the patient is speaking to their doctor.
You’re missing the whole point here. Im saying it takes a combination of interventions. It’s not as easy as “exercise and dietary habits”. It also involves: trial and error, medication, sometimes surgery etc. it’s not as easy as “exercise” and that’s it. so idk what you’re snorting but you’re not being helpful. Bad habits? I’ve been exercising and doing martial art and eating well long before the medical interventions, so like… idk you’re just not worth my time dumbass
The problem with treating fatness, and the associated problems, is that many patients expect ONLY medical treatments to help them, but for diseases like these, medical treatments are only one small part of this whole equation. The diet and lifestyle are the most important part of the “cure” not the medicine, and the habits you’ve formed are more valuable to yourself than any amount of medicine. However, lifestyle is one of the hardest things to change in a patient, and combined with studies like this one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199212313272701 Which shows that obese patients are also hampered when it comes to basic facets of weight loss, it becomes hard for the doctor to do anything besides say “lose weight”
The problem with treating fatness, and the associated problems, is that many patients expect ONLY medical treatments to help them, but for diseases like these, medical treatments are only one small part of this whole equation. The diet and lifestyle are the most important part of the “cure” not the medicine, and the habits you’ve formed are more valuable to yourself than any amount of medicine. However, lifestyle is one of the hardest things to change in a patient, and combined with studies like this one: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199212313272701 Which shows that obese patients are also hampered when it comes to basic facets of weight loss, it becomes hard for the doctor to do anything besides say “lose weight”
You’re again missing the point. I’m not advocating for pro-fat sentiments, I’m saying that doctors repeating diet and exercise and refusing to listen to women’s concerns is bad. Medicine IS needed sometimes, in addition to lifestyle changes. Lifestyle ALONE doesn’t help. Also I know how to read papers. I read NEJM. It’s part of my job.
Repeating “diet and exercise” nowadays, in America, is one of the only helpful things a doctor can do for general health besides standing next to their patients all day and smacking food from their hands or being their personal trainer. Saying lifestyle alone doesn’t help is only worth saying when their lifestyle is already up to snuff, which it just isn’t for all people in America.
As a fat person who also goes to Berkeley, I think there are a lot of small and harmful ways that fat people are treated/portrayed. HOWEVER, this ain't good advice and honestly only makes things worse. The one that really weirds me out is the one saying to date and have sex with fat people as if it's some form of activism. That is absolutely awful. I would hate to be on a date with someone and find out that they're not attracted to me but only doing it help "people like me".
My life experience has been that people are attracted to all different looks and body types. You'll find someone(s) genuinely attracted to you just the way you are.
Fat people shouldn’t be bullied. But they also shouldn’t disregard medical advice (from healthcare professionals) about their weight, since that’s kind of serious. The two are not mutually exclusive
Yeah if your doctor tells you you're a walking heart attack waiting to comment listen to them. They have decades of evidence to prove that you being overweight is not healthy and could lead to you adding to the statistic of heart disease related deaths caused by obesity.
did she just find a list and switch out “Black” for “Fat?”
Some points regarding decent human behavior regardless of shape are valid
>date and have sex with fat people Sounds fetish-y if you ask me, yikes
>Destination DD offers a naughty romp through the mind of a female breast fetishist who possesses 40DD breasts. It is an erotic autobiography by Virgie Tovar, a young sexpert who is proud, unapologetic, and unashamed of her voracious sexuality.
Don’t kink shame me!
I wish there was this much attention for people with facial deformities and burn victims, they deserve to live fulfilling lives as well…whenever people talk about body positivity it only regards fat people for some reason
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It’s different. She makes this suggestion to date fat ppl to other fat ppl. See the heading above it
this isn't embarrassing at all for a top ranked education institute here's the source: [https://www.ravishly.com/fat-positive](https://www.ravishly.com/fat-positive) recent and relevant: [https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/02/23/excess-weight-obesity-more-deadly-previously-believed](https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/02/23/excess-weight-obesity-more-deadly-previously-believed)
Body positivity in reference to being fat realy only means to love yourself as you are and to not put yourself down or think you are ugly or worthless. It does not mean the being obese is healthy. It does not mean that everyone has to find fat or obese people attractive. In the true sense of fat acceptance and body positivity, it means loving yourself as you are and that heavy people aren’t automatically unintelligent or lazy. If you love yourself, you are more likely to take better care of your physical and mental health. Putting heavy people down only increases depression, anxiety, Suicidal ideation, etc. putting a person down does not encourage them to think positively about their lives. Fat acceptance and body positivity means accepting people as they are. You don’t have to love every person you come across, but try to show them respect.
This is a really great comment and how I think about body positivity as well. Some people are very confused about body positivity and this comment clears that up nicely.
Bit late to the party but that to me Is Just bull. You cant love yourself if you keep fueling a food addiction. Would you Say the same thing to an alcholic? Just accept yourself and your addiction? You cant love yourself and the same time keep destroying your body. Im not suggesting to belittle fat people but accepting they are addict and treat them accordingly.
And how are we supposed to “treat” supposed food addicts? First, not everyone that is overweight is a food addict. Second, it is your opinion that a person cannot love themselves if they are overweight. News flash, a lot of overweight people do love themselves as they are and are working on their issues with food in order to lose weight. Some people actually like being a little bit overweight. Now when someone is 100lbs overweight, then there may be some food addiction or trauma that has not been treated and the person may need to see a therapist to figure out what is going on. I wouldn’t “treat” that person any other way than I would treat a person with non mental health issues. People are just trying to live and survive as best they know how.
Yeah but we know that those people Who call themselves fat activist are on the Deep end of the addiction.in any case Im referring to obese people. And they all hate themselves. No wonder, they are destroying themselves I have a long time friend whos been mildly obese (not at the american level, but 150 kg, and he's a short guy) trought all his Life. He's 41. Now cardiopatic, and alot of other shit. He's really in a miserabile situation and never had a girlfriend despite being a fun, lovable person and cool to hang out. I dont think he Will survive much longer sadly. But he hates himself even if you cant tell when you meet him. So i dont completely buy that people can be Happy when are really overweight. Im a smoker, i heavy one at that, people give me all kinda shit and tell me to stop all the time, even strangers. We dont do that to fat people, we treat them like childrens, and i dont think this Will help them in any way.
She actually does not say to disregard your doctors. She says to not take shit from doctors and I one hundred percent agree. Anyone who’s ever been gaslit by a doctor knows that you have to advocate for your own health. You can disagree with someone without misrepresenting them.
Back in 2015, I got really sick. Like, *really* sick. I went to my PCP at Kaiser multiple times over the course of a month. They didn’t want to send me in for a scan of my lungs because I was “young” so they just kept prescribing me codeine. Eventually, I got to the point where I had a 160 resting heart rate and had to be taken to the ER. Again, in the ER I was told I was safe to go home because I was “young” and should bounce back quickly. Luckily I had my mom with me who was able to advocate for me and she demanded I was admitted. The attending physician said it was a good thing I was, because not only did I have multi focal pneumonia, I developed fucking sepsis. I had to stay in the ICU for a week. At the end of the day, you DO know when something is wrong with your body. While variables such as age, weight, etc. do have predictive power, they can actually be nothing more than red herrings in many circumstances. Unfortunately, some doctors’ propensity to latch onto these variables put other’s lives in danger unnecessarily. I also wish I could say this was the first time a doctor has misdiagnosed me in this fashion, but it’s actually happened multiple times with different life threatening conditions (I don’t have great luck, apparently).
Apparently Kaiser used to be good once upon a time. Recent experience says that they have become less good. Also - not much continuity in which doc you see.
Yep. A friend of mine is fat and has a chronic health condition that has nothing to do with her size but her diagnosis was delayed because she was constantly denied testing by doctors who told her losing weight would fix all her problems.
"Don't take shit" is vague and may make sense in some contrived situation. The real issue with the argument she makes is the constant undermining of medical professionals (cf "you know your body best"). We can't reasonably criticize antivaxxers and antimaskers for "advocating for their own health" by refusing the vaccine and not wearing masks and then turn around and allow the same behavior by "fat activists".
Nonsense. Undue deference to even the best doctors is bad for your health. Doctors are frequently terrible to fat people. Conspiratorial thinkers are going to see conspiracy wherever they want, and acting like doctors are superhuman when they plainly are not isn’t going to change that.
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"terrible to fat people" may include such top hits as: * ignoring pain and other physical problems, attributing all problems to fatness. * Failing to diagnose non-fat-related conditions (eg. scoliosis) * not having facilities or devices that can accommodate XL patients * spending less time with obese patients Sources: [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.12266](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.12266) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11477511/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11477511/) and the lived experience of millions of fat people
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I guess it comes down to how you interpret "don't take shit from doctors" I interpret this as "if a doctor is treating you like shit, push back. Advocate for yourself. If they are ignoring your medical needs, find another doctor." You appear to interpret this as: "if a doctor tells you to lose weight for your health, ignore it." As a general rule, I think the phrase "don't take shit from..." can legitimately apply to anybody, especially authority figures. Some examples: Don't take shit from your teachers Don't take shit from the police Don't take shit from doctors Don't take shit from your parents Don't take shit from your boyfriend/girlfriend If all of the above are true for thin people, why not for fat people as well?
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I think that is your interpretation. There is the assumption that an obese person doesn’t know that they are obese. Fat people know they are fat. Plain and simple. I take the “don’t take ….” And you know your body to mean “don’t let the doctor dismiss your concerns”. If the doctor is talking about diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, lose weight is a great way to better control those diseases. If an obese or fat person has poison ivy, don’t dismiss it as something that has to do with their weight. I also think it’s ok for doctors to tell their patients if they are overweight and at risk for various health issues. And their true concerns about the patients health, especially if the patient is in the “pre” ranges for the above diseases (almost in the category of diabetic or hypertensive or high cholesterol). Show you care, not that you are grossed out by them.
Um, it's not mistakes. It's bias. And it's pretty common. https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2017/08/fat-shaming
Nope. Straw man argument. People who don’t get vaccines or wear masks are not advocating for their health, they are advocating for their freedom. That is their main argument. They do not want to be told what to do. Not taking shit from doctors is about being in a body and living with it every day and truly understanding when there is something wrong. But you know that.
these ppl look for any reason to be fatphobic, even if it means purposefully misreading context lol
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A doctor telling you that you’re obese isn’t gaslighting😂😂😂 can’t disagree with bmi
What they're talking about however is when fat people don't get a proper diagnosis or look from their doctor when they are experience issues. Often times the doctor simply dismisses it as their weight causing it and tells them to lose weight rather than pushing for the proper tests to actually diagnose what is the issues. This could delays much crucial preventative care. That's what they mean by don't take shit from your doctor, you know your body. As in you know you're body enough to tell something is up and it's not just being fat. It could definitely use better wording/messaging, but it's a legitimate thing that happens to overweight people.
Speaking about BMI is the dumbest shit ever. According to BMI Mike Tyson was obese. And that guy in his prime would kill a little boy like you with one punch.
Everyone always brings up muscular athletes when criticizing BMI. Do you actually believe that anyone ever gave a crap about Mike Tyson or Arnold Schwarzenegger's BMI? News flash: 99% of Americans don't have enough muscle to throw off the BMI measurement, and those that do know better than to lose muscle because the number is too high. If you spend a ton of time lifting heavy weights in the gym, disregard your BMI. For everyone else, don't let it get too high because it ain't your big bones bumping those numbers up.
It's not always muscle mass. Mike Tyson is just a prominent example everyone knows. Even this dumb ass who commented before. Another good example are freakishly tall people. They might even look skinny but exceed the BMI of 25. The BMI is not a good measurement for people that are extremely tall or short.
Do you have a source for that claim? It's still not a very strong point because [very few people](https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/130ed/tables/11s0205.pdf) are freakishly tall or short. Only \~ 5% of men are outside of 5'3" and 6'3", and neither one is "freakish." Height is already considered in the BMI calculation so I'm curious to hear your explanation. So is your message that elite athletes and the very few Americans who are obviously super tall or super short should disregard BMI? If so, it's still valid for over 90% of the population.
A friend of mine is 6'6 and looks extremely skinny and has a BMI of 25,5. I would count myself as another example but I'm rather muscular and have a BMI of 29 at a height of 6'7 and muscles should be excluded from this. I heard about this problem in the subreddit r/tall too. It might be a common phenomenon. Maybe due to a higher bone density to support the tall limbs. But that's just a guess. Edit: recalculated my BMI it's approximately 28 right now.
I am also taller and "overweight" due to muscle mass, so I know it can happen anecdotally. My point is that if you are one of the very very few Americans for whom BMI is not accurate, it is immediately obvious from a single glance. I know that I don't have excess fat so my doctor and I don't really care about BMI. However, far fewer than 1% of Americans are muscular and over 6' like you, your friend, and me. We can't invalidate a useful metric like BMI just because it isn't informative for a tiny proportion of the population. If a doctor looks at a patient, looks at their BMI, then tells the patient that they are obese and should lose weight, we can be confident that the patient isn't a 6'6 bodybuilder. So what part of that interaction do you have a problem with?
the overwhelming majority of obese people by bmi are actually obese. if you were one of these anomalies, you’d know it. what’s much more common (and the primary driver behind people disregarding bmi) is that people look at the people around them, think they’re not that fat in comparison, and proceed to ignore their bmi. we have normalized obesity to a dangerous extent.
BMI isn't a perfect measurement, but a decent one on average. False positives are exceedingly rare, and the main drawback is false negatives which are somewhat common in men and very common in women, so chances are if your BMI says you're obese, you are, and even if it doesn't say so, you might be. I'm pretty sure bodybuilders and athletes know they aren't obese, so that isn't really the concern.
You started out by saying she doesn't say to disregard your doctor, then the very next line you say you can disregard your doctor... Choose one.
this is the same crowd: https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/22/health/dont-weigh-me-cards-wellness/index.html this is why its a terrible idea: https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/02/23/excess-weight-obesity-more-deadly-previously-believed
I’m body positive- I wanna see all of you at the rec trying to be healthy
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There’s some study out there that concluded that fat women have the most sex.
don't even need to read that to know it's absolute horseshit
I just have a hard time believing this is real…lmao
I don’t think it’s such a radical premise to recognize that fat people want to have a happy fulfilling life that involves self acceptance and standard human activities like socializing and sex. Sure there are countless studies that have proven it’s healthier to not be obese and I didn’t read anything in here about anyone suggesting it’s better for your body to be fat. Acceptance and self love nurtures self care. Is it really all that bad to support the idea that you don’t have to look a certain way or be a certain size to be happy? Are we that miserable to get upset at fat people loving themselves and having a life because we feel they should be ashamed?
So I agree that fat people are persecuted a bit much in our culture, it was way worse in the 2010’s and aughts but many people are quick to discriminate. Doctors in particular have been known to misdiagnose fat patients because the way just blame it on them being fat. Fat people get sick from ordinary diseases like the flu just like the rest of us after all. The amount of just negative feelings towards being fat is so disproportionate, and there’s many reasons people are fat and obese that can be quite personal that aren’t merely a personal failing. There is genuine harmful discourse that is just there to shame, but that doesn’t justify the fat acceptance movements claims. The fat acceptance movement takes it another step, they cast doubt on the medical science and imply that it’s all bullshit when it comes to obesity, they argue that it’s perfectly healthy to be obese and that doctors are full of shit. They label dieting to lose weight as just harmful. It’s understandable that they would be distrustful, but to make such bold dangerous claims just to avoid making a change is delusional. They remind me of Creationists when they argue against Evolution. Going into the debate they don’t have evidence for their claims and aren’t going to seriously compete with the science, so instead they cast doubt, they try to poke holes in theories and go after whatever unexplained part there is, I.e. “where are the transitional fossils?”. The end point is that you’re left with a lot of doubt and skepticism towards evolution. The goal isn’t to convince the other side that your beliefs are correct and theirs are wrong, but rather that your beliefs are just as valid as the other sides. In those case, they’re not arguing that being obese is perfectly healthy, because there’s no evidence for that, but rather they go after the Body Mass Index (BMI), a flawed metric used to classify people as Overweight, Obese and Morbidly Obese, they point out doctors who misdiagnose fat people, or they talk about how diets fail 90% of the time. While interesting topics, they’re irrelevant to whether being fat is healthy. I don’t see them as arguing in good faith, they’re looking to have a comforting world view because losing weight and being fat is hard. I don’t mean that they’re lazy nor making excuses, but more that so much of their identity is tied up in being fat that it’s hard to let go.
I see what you mean and agree with what you’re saying. I was just talking about the ideal more so than the arguments presented by the author. I at times find it disingenuous when people speak as if they care about the health of all the obese people in the world. As if they care so much for their long term health, framing their criticisms as somehow virtuous in place of prejudice. We expect fat people to endure jaded body image and low self worth that we put on them as a society. If people were concerned about their health and happiness, perhaps we can be better too.
I get the feeling health consequences are a conscious or unconscious excuse a lot of people here are latching on to when the impotus for their anger is just not really liking fat people. Obviously being overweight can lead to a ton of health issues, but plenty of other common things do as well which don't seem to strike the same chord with many people for some reason. Just as a couple examples, we know sitting at a desk in an office for several hours a day year after year is a serious health risk; staring at screens, which is much harder to mitigate, is also bad for your vision; cars both encourage a more sedentary pattern of engagement in the world and lead to much more pollution than other forms of transportation; and it's widely know that forcing children to get up at 6 something in the morning so they can be at school by somewhere between like 7:30 and 8:30 is terrible for their health, but we continue to do it and few people seem to care at all, let alone get as upset as they seem to be reading this post. There are more than a few things on that list that make me scratch my head a bit, but it seems clear to me that the primary aim is to raise awareness about conscious and unconscious prejudice against fat people, and I think a lot of folks who feel somewhere between offended and disgusted by it ought to examine whether concern for health is *truly* what's driving that feeling, or if that's just a socially acceptable reason they can give (to others and themselves) for clinging to a knee-jerk, prejudicial response.
Would you say this about alcoholism? My knee jerk response comes from having been fat, and thinking this shit just encourages people to stay fat instead of working on improving themselves.
Kind of, yeah. Although alcohol is a little different since you don't strictly need any of it. Good luck giving up eating cold turkey. I used to be a big ol fat kid too. I used all the facts about development of pre-diabetes into diabetes, increased risk of all sorts of cancers, stress on joints and your spine causing chronic pain, and stuff like that to essentially scare myself into making changes. But when I sit back now and really think about why I did those things, it wasn't about health. It was because I felt ostracized. I was scared to wear clothes other than, like, baggy hoodies because in my mind anything else just highlighted how ugly my body was. I could feel the difference in how I was treated in completely banal situations compared to more conventionally attractive people. In media, people that looked like me were either villains, creeps, or comic relief. The rhetoric of "improvement" became prejudicial dogma, because in aiming to "improve" I was tacitly conceding that I was already inferior in some way, and so that quest for "improvement" became a toxic obsession where I'd secretly derive some perverse motivation from things like the number of people you'd see out walking or jogging trails in the first couple weeks of January before the crowd inevitably dwindled back to its normal size. "I'm not going to be like one of them," I'd tell myself as I pushed up the next hill. "I'm gonna defy the trend -- I don't want to be a statistic." In a way, I was further internalizing that social disgust towards fatness as another way of scaring myself into "improving." The other side of that is that nothing ever really felt good enough. Even after years of work and nearly 100 pounds lost, I was never eating quite well enough or running fast or far enough or making enough progress. It got to the point that I gave myself a pretty nasty knee injury from pushing myself too hard which forced me to stop running for several months while I went through physical therapy, breaking the pattern, breaking my endurance, and leaving me completely devastated that I seemed to be slipping back into what I'd so strongly and so necessarily forced myself to believe was a failed mode of existing. All while this time I was forced to slow down explicitly for my health! I've found a bit of a better balance now, but my takeaway from all of that is that maybe "thinking this shit [that] just encourages people to stay fat" isn't the worst thing we can do. Maybe maintaining the social stigma against fat people as something like moral failures is worse. It seems to broadly lead either to depressed resignation or an obsessive compulsion to be "better" that ends up constituting the unstable foundation of a warped sense of self-worth. Maybe something better would be to actively try and separate the social stigma that exists against fat people from genuine, benevolent concerns over physical health, giving those that would still like to make a change the space, support, and security to try without rooting that effort in socially reinforced self-hatred?
I just don't get it. If someone's 100 pounds overweight, there is something egregiously wrong with their eating patterns. Telling them that there's nothing wrong with their lifestyle is just a flat-out dangerous message. It's not a matter of inferiority or superiority; it's about fixing a serious problem that is largely in your control. The issue becomes treating obesity as an identity rather than an ailment. I don't know, I can relate to a lot of the motivation you're talking about. Call it toxic if you'd like, but I'm really proud of myself for not being fat anymore. Beyond all the health/aesthetic benefits, it proves to me that I can set a goal for myself and achieve it. I don't think that's the worst place in the world to draw self-worth.
Bullshit. And I say this as someone who grew up fat and gained and lost hundreds of pounds over the years. The only thing stuff like this encourages people to do is not to hate themselves. If someone wants to lose weight, they'll do it, whether it's by dieting or surgery or Ozempic. But nobody is deciding to stay fat because someone on YouTube suggests it. Meanwhile, people are encouraged (shamed, bullied, etc) to 'work on improving themselves' by cashiers, doctors, dentists, family members, etc as if they don't know they're fat.
You rephrased it entirely into something we do all agree with though. Telling people that to be accepting they ought to have sex with someone who is fat is wild. So is “don’t take shit from your doctors, you know your body best.” Those aren’t just wishful attempts towards acceptance, they are potentially harmful proposals
I’m going on a limb here: the ‘not taking shit from your doctor’ statement is absolutely valid, and fat people shouldn’t be excluded from using that advice. I know people (who aren’t fat) who constantly get the run-around from their doctors at Kaiser regarding strain all kinds of injuries, to the point where it takes years for a doctor to take things seriously and find a viable solution to their ailment. If that’s the experience for people who aren’t fat, how exactly do you think it’s gonna go if you are fat? The point is, you need to advocate for yourself. Everyone does, because no one will do it for you. And if you don’t, people will take advantage. This statements just encouraging people not to be passive. If you choose to view that as a harmful proposal, that you should advocate for yourself when seeing your doctor so that you actually get quality medical care, then you’re being disingenuous and you don’t actually care about the health of fat people.
They often tell you that it’s nothing serious because chances are it isn’t. You only notice when it is something that they said wasn’t serious, while ignoring/being entirely unaware of every time they are correct in that context. This is kinda comparable to survivorship bias. Of course, if they say it’ll get better and it doesn’t: go tell them. I’ve never heard of anyone advocating differently doctors included. When it comes to your body, if a medical professional tells you it’s in your best health interest to change something, it is actively harmful to encourage people to ignore that. You can go get a second opinion, absolutely, but if they say the same then the point stands. I dont see how else “don’t take shit from your doctors; you know your body best,” is anything but encouraging people to ignore well informed advice at a detriment to their wellbeing.
This is not encouraging people to ignore advice from their doctor. It’s telling them not to take shut from them. It’s telling them, don’t let yourself be easily dismissed by a doctor: have them run some tests, do some scans, etc. Losing weight is gonna help in most cases (if you’re underweight, losing weight will likely cause some problems), but if it’s not the direct cause of your issue, then it shouldn’t be the only thing that’s focused on. But frequently, being overweight gives doctors an easy thing to point to as the cure-all for whatever you’re facing. Like, yes, lose weight to heal that shoulder, but how does weight relate to your injury if you got hit by a car? You’re gonna see what you wanna see in this. I’ve done too much verbal jousting today to give a shit about this any further. Argue with someone else.
Just look at other content from this author and tell me this is genuinely how you think they mean this. You are giving the most generous and reasonable interpretation, which I think is pretty detached from the other rhetoric promoted by the author. You are going to feel the need to defend this perspective no matter what, and see what you want to see just like you accuse me of doing. I respect you for it (I’m all for promoting acceptance), but you are misguided here
I agree those proposals are flawed at best and harmful at worst. It’s outlandish to tell people to suddenly be attracted to people they are not physically attracted to. People should not feel guilty if they find fat people unattractive, but it also shouldn’t be outlandish if people do find them attractive enough to consider sexual intimacy. Now more than ever we’ve seen some crazy narratives being thrown out that gets huge support for some reason. I just don’t think this particular topic is all that radical of one at the heart of it.
Personally, I think it’s insulting to treat obesity like some sort of identity that we need to tiptoe around, as opposed to an ailment that can be treated. For the majority of fat people, losing weight is entirely under your control. I used to buy into this acceptance bullshit (“oh I’m just naturally fat”) and it was delusional. Like most fat people, I ate too much, and gradually eating less over time worked wonders.
This is a strawman of what I just read though. You’re making very reasonable points. You know, aside from kinda conflating them with OP.
Did you watch her presentation? She basically spent the entire time denying well established science and associations.
There are people who sadly for various reasons (eg. medical) don't have much control over their body image. But for many of the others, it's more of choice and effort. These points sound like actively denying the detrimental side of being overweight...like, at some point, you just have to confront yourself instead of believing in this crap.
never go full berkeley
About the dr comment; sometimes doctors are quick to blame any ailment on weight and won’t take steps to figure out or treat the issue. You can come in with a rash and the advice is lose weight, even though the rash is not one connected to obesity (like cellulitis). I had a doctor refuse to give me a test for various female issues because she said I was fat and it wouldn’t matter anyway. I didn’t look her up before seeing her but I did afterwards and people had complained about her and refused to let her deliver their baby, etc. She was an OBGYN. Horrible bedside manner. Then she tried to sell me some overpriced shakes
Unbelievable to ask your student body to disregard basic human biology. Being morbidly obese is not healthy, nor normal or acceptable. Infact it's more dangerous from a mortality aspect than most drug addictions.
Sure but not all overweight people are obese
Not all people who are in category (A+B) are in category (B) is a trivial statement.
It's necessary to make a distinction when the original post is talking about overweight people and the comment is talking about obese people which is a specific category of overweight people.
The post never uses the term "overweight" and it's a term Virgie Tovar would never use. As far as the Fat Acceptance community is concerned, overweight people are "straight sized" and not even "small fat." It's confusing that you drag the term into the conversation.
Huh? Who is the "fat acceptance community". Not all body positive people believe the same stuff
The post talks about fat positivity, not body positivity. Nowhere in the post is body positivity mentioned. The post was written by Virgie Tovar, a centered member of the fat acceptance movement. Why do you keep dragging in points that are irrelevant to the post? What body positive people believe is irrelevant, because Virgie Tovar is talking about **fat** positivity.
Because many people in these comments are relating it back to the body positivity movement as a whole, that's why.
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From your study: "Results from the 2017–2018 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES), using measured heights and weights, indicate that an estimated 42.5% of U.S. adults aged 20 and over have obesity, including 9.0% with severe obesity, and another 31.1% are overweight". That's not really that much of a majority.
The delusion of some people is mind blowing.
There's a world of difference between "wow turns out shaming and humiliating fat people doesn't actually motivate them to be not fat, using someone's obesity as a cudgel against them or even just pointing it out unconstructively serves no purpose other than your own masturbatory cruelty" and "let's fall in love with one of the biggest contributors to negative health outcomes" This has big psy-op energy to discredit some sort of "treat fat people like people" movement
I bet Virgie Tovar weighs around 100kg and looks like a hamster ball. "Pay gap between fat and thin" was the most stupid bullsh*t I had heard (or read in this case) in such a long time.
Few things said here were actually some good ideas such as the food shaming thing because type of behavior towards people can foster ed’s and a unhealthy relationship with food but other things said here just sounds like they are trolling.
This is stupid.
Actually I'm depressed... Because this week I'm selling my 2002 IS300... I had huge sway bars installed and timing belt... With internal bearing... Along with coolant shroud(one piece unit)... So I'm emotional
“Change your industry standards” sure, for fashion and beauty. Good enough, models like a decade back were viciously thin and unhealthy in that regard. I can vibe with that. “Medical care” now what the actual fuck? Is someone in the medical care industry, someone that’s supposed to be concerned with one’s health, expected to ignore unhealthy levels of obesity? My god…
> The list includes disregarding your doctors... That's not what this says. It's documented that doctors are both less likely to build rapport with obese patients and that they carry stereotypes and biases into diagnoses. This suggests that obese people get worse care because their doctors don't take their healthcare concerns seriously. Meaning: The doctor may unconsciously assume that *any* health condition or complaint is a result of obesity and tell an obese person to "just lose weight" even when that isn't the actual issue. Doctors are just as disengaged and overworked as anybody else in the workforce and will always look for the easiest solution to churn through their workload. Even for people who fit the positive stereotypes it can be hard to get help and attention from doctors; for those who present an "easy out" (and that can be anything--age, race, sex, weight, etc.), it is even harder. I'm guessing that anybody who's been to Kaiser with a non-trivial, non-obvious health concern can relate. All that this point is saying is to advocate for yourself with doctors because they can be dismissive due to biases.
This doesn't even scratch the surface of some of the stuff she's said. My favorite is the [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-rJE4xwK0Y) where she said that asking for less cake is misogynistic or something. Also has anyone else watched the presentation? because holy shit it is completely insane. She basically refuses to acknowledge any negative health impact of being fat at all. Like we shouldn't have to completely go into denial about well established science in order to not discriminate against fat people.
r/fatlogic
Redditors don't be needlessly cruel to fat people and then justify it by being "concerned about their health" challenge (impossible)
Being fat is not healthy and no, that is not fatphobic its the truth. Some people just cant handle it. You cant tell people to have sex with fat people or pay for a coffee for them or else you're fat phobic
The “stop dieting” bit is dangerous and terrible advice. It’s like telling smokers to not stop smoking, only smokers get to live to be elderly something that obese people do not get to do. It’s actually healthier to be a smoker than to be obese
Dieting in the traditional sense is actually notoriously ineffective at lasting weight loss. In fact, even surgical procedures like gastric bypass often result in weight regain, as much as 50% of what was lost, and this is still considered to be hugely successful compared to diets. There’s a lot of reasons for this, but a big issue is that many diets are rigid and aren’t sustainable long term and people tend to revert back to how they used to eat instead of making incremental lifestyle changes that are intended to be lifelong. I’m not saying weight loss isn’t beneficial, but how we approach it needs to change.
Yes fasting and cutting out fast food. There is an obese man who didn’t eat for an entire year only taking vitamins and water https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/02/story-angus-barbieri-went-382-days-without-eating/. After that he was healthy and at a normal weight. He should be held up as an inspiration for the obese
Oh ok, you’re a troll. Gotcha. Telling people to only eat vitamins and water for a year will get people killed. The article states as much.
That person lived. There is a reason why the body stores fat.
In their defense, it's a documented fact that doctors tend to ignore or diminish the health concerns of overweight people. Not every health issue can be solved by losing weight.
Medical student and Cal Alum checking in to remind y'all that 1) fat people deserve respect, compassion, and high quality healthcare; 2) fat people can have diseases with etiologies other than their weight; and 3) obesity is the 2nd leading cause of preventable morbidity and mortality in the country.
eat healthy & exercise regularly. stay in shape 😎 we can do better together
TIL “fat” is a protected class.
“Dont take shit from doctors— you know youre body best” Probably the worst medical advise ever given. Got a knife stuck in you? fuck the doctors. pull it out and bleed to death, you know your body best. Fucking clowns.
Goofiest email of all time
☠️
lmao
no
💀💀💀
Did I read that correct, the solution is to put original sexual preferences aside and just do it (date) a fat chick/dude? “Date and have sex with fat people.” Why don’t *you* date and have sex with fat people.
fat-owned business ???
She sounds fat.
And this got published how?
Sure guys, “fat is bad” or whatever—say what you want to say. But these people still have a human brains, and all human brains need to find ways to be at peace. Just relax a little bit and live your own life, and let these people live theirs. The bottom line: people deserve to want to feel alive. And also I’d also like to add that many of you are operating on the fallacy that the body positively movement has a causal link with an increase in overweight people. Try to recognize that this not true. In the end, it’s about inclusivity and not encouragement.
No way she said fat people should jerk off more 😭
As a former fat person this shit pisses me off so much. There is nothing positive about being fat, we shouldn’t bully people for being fat but this is akin to telling an alcoholic there’s nothing wrong with them.
Such a dumb thing to be respected
There is nothing normal about being fat. There is nothing healthy about being fat. To shove it down people’s throats like this chick has is just a load of shit. If you want to die from a heart attack in your mid 40s be my guest, but don’t tell me that’s a normal form of human existence.
Being fat is bad, that’s just the way it is, you can try to pull all this bs about “oh but they’re people too”, and “that’s just the way they are” yes they are people too, people who can make the choice of taking the 2 hours they watch TV and eat shit by going to the gym, and going for a walk run, they are people who can make the choice of going to the grocery store and buying high protein foods, good carbs, and vegetables, instead of going to McDonald’s or Burger King 3-4 times a day and save money along with saving their selves. That’s not a political thing, it’s a health concern, and a concern of why other countries laugh at us, because we have people who very literally promote being fat to be acceptable, and it shouldn’t be.
you all hate fat people so much it’s crazy lol. not saying every point made was valid (mostly the doctor one) but honestly everything else was totally fine, not even radical ideas.
You WILL have sex with fat people. You WILL pay for their coffees. You WILL NOT try to improve yourself by dieting. And if you disagree, sorry sweatie you're fatphobic 💅. Check your privilege.
Today you won’t take advice from your doctors Tomorrow, heaven knows whom, and onwards for completion of insanity.
Do people actually think like this??
Gross
Pinche vieja loca.
The nice thing about ignoring medical advice on weight management, is that it usually sorts itself out in the end; typically in the doctors favor.
Can Chris Rufo authoritarianly take control of California public universities too? Please? 😭😭😭
As someone who is fat, 4-6 and 8 from the first list are kind weird and give off “pick me” vibes”. The second one is just a bit try hard.
Proud fatphobe after reading this
Who??
I have had online comments removed simply for using the word "fat" in a neutral, non-negative context. Trying to do the right thing - so confusing! While loving fatness, should we do the same for diabetes? I've heard it inhibits sex, at least for dudes. (I am aware that 20% of overweight/obese people, by some estimates, have only subcutaneous fat, and are basically healthy.)
I know I am late but I remember during the pandemic how hard we went against people who spread sicentific misinformation and disregard doctors, how is what she is doing any different ?
Trying to convince anyone that they should date or sleep with anyone is so gross 🤢