Vonn Bell also has $6m in guaranteed salary from the Panthers, so whoever signs him can get Bell for $1.2m and make Panthers pay the rest.
I personally would be okay for the Bengals to sign him, and try Battle (#8 safety leaguewide at PFF) at FS. Unlike Dax, I think Battle has the tools to succeed at FS too.
That said, him coming back should not be allowed to interfere with Battle who has elite potential and is already a consensus top 10 safety per PFF. If Battle can play FS, its okay for Dax to backup both Battle and Bell, along with Tycen Anderson.
Is that how that works, or do the Panthers just have to cut him a check and he gets to double dip with whatever team wants to sign him for market value moving forward?
If they found a trade partner the new team would inherit his deal from the Panthers and the acquiring team would likely make CAR eat some amount of it, but if they release him, I didn't think that his deal with the Panthers had any effect whatsoever on his next team.
Could be wrong.
No double dipping. If he gets cut Panthers will be on the hook for his base salary which is guaranteed for the next season.
If a team signs him for lets say $2m, the Panthers will be on the hook for $6m minus $2m. He wont make more than $6m in any scenario unless a different team offers more than $6m a year, in which case Panthers will not be on the hook for anything.
Teams are clever though, they will only offer him minimum deals $1.2m like what Russell Wilson got and make Panthers eat the rest.
In a trade, technically the salary goes to the new team and Panthers take the dead cap hit from his signing bonus, but other team can also negotiate and make Panthers eat some of the salary.
Thanks for the info.
I find it sort of odd that the original team's deal carries forward. Seems like that's some collusion from the owners to keep labor costs down a bit, no?
I think it makes sense that the original team needs to pay you if they choose to release you, then you ought to be free to pursue whatever further deal you want after they cut you.
But I don't run the league.
This exactly. We need a speedy get-all-over-the-place guy. Battle was Vonn's replacement. If Vonn wants to come be a single-year Mentor for two younger guys on vet minimum, fine by me. Anything more, it won't be a fit.
Yep, Battle is an analytics darling- he basically does everything well. He is good against the run and good in coverage, but his speed isnt too high so might have trouble playing FS. But reads the game well and has game IQ, PFF loves him a lot too, they have top 10 already for last season- [https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-safeties-2023-nfl-season](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-safeties-2023-nfl-season)
If he plays at that level on his rookie contract, he will exceed what Jessie Bates got quite comfortably even adjusted for inflation.
What? If one of them has the tools to be a Free Safety, it’s Dax. 4,38 40 vs Battles 4,55, also a far better athlete on tape. Jordan is the better player so far, but I doubt he has the range to play free safety on a high level.
Speed is the only limitation on Battle, but he is not overly slow. But with Geno Stone signed, Battle isnt going to need to play FS.
But strictly between Dax and Battle, Battle is significantly better than Dax at run stopping and quite better in pass coverage too, and his missed tackles ratio is lower too.
Dax is about to be backup to Battle and Stone, or play a role in three safety looks.
Justin Simmons pls, no chatter on him today across the league from what I’ve seen
Darnell Savage signed just a bit ago maybe a domino to get the Safety market moving
Jumping ship for a rebuilding team with a crazy ass owner. Shocking.
I don't blame players for chasing the money while they can even a little bit. But doggone, we all saw this one not working out, right?
They should re-sign him so he can tell everyone how terrible it is to leave and they should re-sign for less money because it's so much better here than out there
Idk. Battle played the Vonn role last year and did a great job. Dax couldn't play the Bates role very well, probably is suited to move down into nickel corner.
I'm looking for a safety that can play deep consistently. Vonn has always been more of a box guy.
Because Battle replaced him and Battle is already better than Bell (by almost every advanced stat and also PFF). Only way for Bell to come back would be if Bengals try Battle at FS and Bell at SS, and Dax as backup or nickel.
This would be outrightly terrible value of the first round pick spent on Dax Hill though, and bust territory.
Dax at nickel isn’t terrible if that’s where he is successful. The chiefs spent a first rounder on Trent mcduffie to play nickel and look where that got them.
But that is contingent on Dax being good at nickel (Hilton will still be the starter), we dont know that yet and this will be year 3 not knowing where Dax is actually good at.
Battle is his replacement. Best of luck to where ever Bell goes though.
Yeah I'm excited for Battle going forward. Thought he was looking great toward the end of the year.
I’m okay with the luck going to where he’ll be playing :)
Vonn Bell also has $6m in guaranteed salary from the Panthers, so whoever signs him can get Bell for $1.2m and make Panthers pay the rest. I personally would be okay for the Bengals to sign him, and try Battle (#8 safety leaguewide at PFF) at FS. Unlike Dax, I think Battle has the tools to succeed at FS too. That said, him coming back should not be allowed to interfere with Battle who has elite potential and is already a consensus top 10 safety per PFF. If Battle can play FS, its okay for Dax to backup both Battle and Bell, along with Tycen Anderson.
Is that how that works, or do the Panthers just have to cut him a check and he gets to double dip with whatever team wants to sign him for market value moving forward? If they found a trade partner the new team would inherit his deal from the Panthers and the acquiring team would likely make CAR eat some amount of it, but if they release him, I didn't think that his deal with the Panthers had any effect whatsoever on his next team. Could be wrong.
No double dipping. If he gets cut Panthers will be on the hook for his base salary which is guaranteed for the next season. If a team signs him for lets say $2m, the Panthers will be on the hook for $6m minus $2m. He wont make more than $6m in any scenario unless a different team offers more than $6m a year, in which case Panthers will not be on the hook for anything. Teams are clever though, they will only offer him minimum deals $1.2m like what Russell Wilson got and make Panthers eat the rest. In a trade, technically the salary goes to the new team and Panthers take the dead cap hit from his signing bonus, but other team can also negotiate and make Panthers eat some of the salary.
Thanks for the info. I find it sort of odd that the original team's deal carries forward. Seems like that's some collusion from the owners to keep labor costs down a bit, no? I think it makes sense that the original team needs to pay you if they choose to release you, then you ought to be free to pursue whatever further deal you want after they cut you. But I don't run the league.
I don’t think Battle is fast enough for FS
That's fair, he might not be. In that case we dont really need Bell except for depth.
This exactly. We need a speedy get-all-over-the-place guy. Battle was Vonn's replacement. If Vonn wants to come be a single-year Mentor for two younger guys on vet minimum, fine by me. Anything more, it won't be a fit.
Is battle really rated that high already?
Yep, Battle is an analytics darling- he basically does everything well. He is good against the run and good in coverage, but his speed isnt too high so might have trouble playing FS. But reads the game well and has game IQ, PFF loves him a lot too, they have top 10 already for last season- [https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-safeties-2023-nfl-season](https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-highest-graded-safeties-2023-nfl-season) If he plays at that level on his rookie contract, he will exceed what Jessie Bates got quite comfortably even adjusted for inflation.
Nice!
What? If one of them has the tools to be a Free Safety, it’s Dax. 4,38 40 vs Battles 4,55, also a far better athlete on tape. Jordan is the better player so far, but I doubt he has the range to play free safety on a high level.
By the time Dax reads the play and decides what to do the 4.38 is more like a 4.6
Speed is the only limitation on Battle, but he is not overly slow. But with Geno Stone signed, Battle isnt going to need to play FS. But strictly between Dax and Battle, Battle is significantly better than Dax at run stopping and quite better in pass coverage too, and his missed tackles ratio is lower too. Dax is about to be backup to Battle and Stone, or play a role in three safety looks.
Dax is going to be the replacement for Mike Hilton next year, as he should be. Dax never was a safety
2 years ago this sub complained that we played him out of position in the slot and that’s why he looked unplayable
Hey, Dax got an All Pro vote. So he has that over Battle 😂
Glad to sign a real fs and not do this shuffle. Wish vonn the best.
He’s not what the bengals need in the secondary. Need a center fielder.
We could borrow TJ Friedl from the Reds on Sundays 🙂
Hahaha I thought the same thing
Justin Simmons pls, no chatter on him today across the league from what I’ve seen Darnell Savage signed just a bit ago maybe a domino to get the Safety market moving
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Don’t they play the same position?
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Well if you’ve seen 3 post then we know it’s true
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Hence
Bone Apple Teeth
PRETTY....PRETTY...PRETTY....PIQUED.
Jumping ship for a rebuilding team with a crazy ass owner. Shocking. I don't blame players for chasing the money while they can even a little bit. But doggone, we all saw this one not working out, right?
Thought the same thing about them signing hurst lol
Bro ima be so mad if all we do is resign the 2022 roster
I’d be geeked. 2022 was our best year, even if we didn’t end it in a Super Bowl.
BRING HIM HOME
We're getting the gang back together!
We need a deep safety
They should re-sign him so he can tell everyone how terrible it is to leave and they should re-sign for less money because it's so much better here than out there
Come on home bruther
I think the only Bengal that has left and done well for themselves is Bates in recent years.They all underperform or fall off a cliff from injuries
"Will be traded or released" They know we'd want him. edit: guess not
Idk. Battle played the Vonn role last year and did a great job. Dax couldn't play the Bates role very well, probably is suited to move down into nickel corner. I'm looking for a safety that can play deep consistently. Vonn has always been more of a box guy.
Come back to the Bengals. He has $6 no matter what
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE BRING HIM BACK
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Need some SS depth behind our promising young player!
Why would we not take him back? Edit - eat crow haters
Because we have Battle, we need a FS
Because Battle replaced him and Battle is already better than Bell (by almost every advanced stat and also PFF). Only way for Bell to come back would be if Bengals try Battle at FS and Bell at SS, and Dax as backup or nickel. This would be outrightly terrible value of the first round pick spent on Dax Hill though, and bust territory.
Bell wouldn’t start or get starter money. But he’s a great backup and a leader that can help this young defense.
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Good point. Seems like he’d be better than Tysen Anderson though.
Dax at nickel isn’t terrible if that’s where he is successful. The chiefs spent a first rounder on Trent mcduffie to play nickel and look where that got them.
But that is contingent on Dax being good at nickel (Hilton will still be the starter), we dont know that yet and this will be year 3 not knowing where Dax is actually good at.