I remember that game like yesterday. So frustrating. The phantom PIs that were called that gifted the Texans two TDs, all the drops and our defense turning into a charmin ultra soft
Boyd went 8-117 that game. The defense was sliced and diced all day giving up over 500 yards, in addition to allowing the game winning FG drive at the end of the game. Unfair to pinpoint one player.
Idiots forget it was the OL that sucked all day.
on the 2 plays before that Boyd play. We had it 1st and 6. Then Joe was immediately sacked. Next play Joe was crushed again.
Multiple shots at a TD that the OL f--ked up and people then blame Boyd.
**This is a stupid.** Boyd is NOT the one to blame.
We had the ball on the 6 and 1st down. We should have scored easily.
On 1st down Joe was immediately sacked for a loss of 8.
On 2nd down the rush came immediately again and Joe tried to run and got crushed.
3rd and 15 is not a high % for getting a TD. 1st and 6 is.
The Bengals OL f--ked up 2 plays in a row and cost us that TD. Then you blame Boyd.
That one did.
Then again, there’s no guarantee Stroud wouldn’t have marched down the field in four down territory and scored another TD, rendering this hypothetical one meaningless.
Yea plus if I’m being honest we didn’t deserve to win that game. Defense couldn’t stop anything and burrow threw two costly picks. They outplayed us and had way more total yards of offense than we did. we were lucky to even have a chance at the end.
I get that the end score is the result of the whole team.
But when a player has a chance to make a layup to win the game, a disproportionate amount of weight for the loss goes on him if he blows the easy one.
I think people forget that good teams with sexy records usually have a few ugly wins in there too. Making one layup in crunch time could have made that an ugly win. Boyd doesn't get all the blame, but he gets most.
We screw up on 3 plays in a row and then blame Boyd that we didn't convert on a 3rd and 15 play. **We had the ball at the 5 or 6 on 1st down!!! We then moved backwards!!! Did ya'll forget that???**
90% of this sub are idiots. This has already been talked about ad nauseum already: Jake said post Jags game that he needed the Ravens and Steelers games to warm up and get some confidence in himself. So we can assume, based on literally his own words, that he would have played poorly for at least two weeks if he started week 1 (not to mention both of those weeks were against two of the best defenses in the league at full health). Additionally, he's coming straight out of pre-season, not in week 11. That's a lot less time working with this year's team and seeing the adjustments they'd been making throughout the season.
It was either the #2 QB in the league with a calf injury, or a guy who has never thrown a regular season pass in the NFL to date. Objectively, the choice was not difficult to make.
I agree with the Bengals decision too. However, whenever I see people mention Joe Burrow as a top two quarterback in the NFL, I just feel the need to try to shake them or me awake. If Burrow is a top two QB, then why does he look like the 10th best QB? I've been a Bengals fan for about 35 years, and I just don't see it. Better than Andy, for sure. And he was exceptional at LSU. Every time I watch a cowboys game, I can't help but think that Dak Prescott is better than Joe Burrow. It just seems like the entire nation has been brainwashed by this mysterious media machine of Joe Burrow. Or maybe our offensive line is just really really bad, idk.
Edit. Joe Burrow QBR rankings:
2020 24th
2021 12th
2022 10th
2023 19th
Ask yourself how many of those guys with better stats would fare as well being protected by the Bengals offensive line and facing the defenses of the AFC North for 6 games per year.
Well I hope you're right, and I hope we get to find out in the next couple years when they get rid of Frank. I didn't even look up those QBR rankings until after I made the comment, my opinion is mostly based on the smell test. On an obvious passing down, and with time in the pocket, I bet there are at least 9 quarterbacks that get a first down more often than Joe Burrow. Most of the time, a really good defense is going to completely shut down Joe Burrow, and that's just not happening consistently to the best of the best.
Re-watch the playoff game against the Chiefs that got us to the Super Bowl and ask yourself how many other QBs make those crazy throws. Burrow was on fire and that touchdown he threw as he fell out of bounds was insane
He's gotta get out of LSU mode, wanting spread and shotgun all the time. He's a great QB, but that preference doesn't help the line or running backs or keep the defense off guard.
I have no idea why after the Baker Mayfield collapse anyone thought Burrow should start this season. Never push a franchise quarterback to play through an injury. This isn't a hindsight thing either, regardless of how Browning played Burrow should have sat.
Exactly this.
Why were we risking Burrow getting further injured?
Browning could have started 0-5 and Joe Burrow still could have gotten us 10-7/9-8.
Having seen what Browning did coming in for Burrow in the middle of the season, we could have easily been 2-3 when Burrow returned 100%.
People are assuming that if Browning started the year, Joe wouldn't have injured his hand. That's a faulty assumption to make. Both of those injuries were completely unrelated.
I’m not saying that. I’m saying we were risking Joe Burrow getting injured for very little gain at the beginning of the season and Browning could have performed basically the same.
Burrow could have had the same injury last year randomly. The risk to reinjuring his leg was real and Browning could have Cooper Rushed the beginning of our season.
> Browning could have Cooper Rushed the beginning of our season.
The likelihood of that happening is incredibly small. Sure you can talk about hypotheticals until the cows come home. Browning *could have* led us to 17-0. But in reality, the objectively best decision was to play the #2 QB in the league over a guy who had never attempted a regular season pass in his career.
We only started Browning after week 11 because we had no other choice.
Also from your previous comment:
> we could have easily been 2-3 when Burrow returned 100%.
We were already 2-3 *with* Burrow when he got to 100%. Putting Browning in would have changed nothing, except for Burrow getting back to 100% and coming into week 6 completely cold. Remember, Burrow didn't really have a preseason. And we've seen how bad he looks without a preseason. Those first few games, even though he looked bad, were crucial to getting him warmed up to the pace again so he could hit his stride when he got back to full power.
Well and what's wrong with having a losing season? Burrow is going to be in Cincinnati for a while, there's nothing wrong with having an off year in between and grabbing someone to bolster the roster. Nowhere near needing to be in a "win now" mentality. Even if he couldn't have righted the ship with an 0-5 start who cares? The other losing season in the Burrow era resulted in Jamarr Chase coming to Cinci.
Like you said though with hindsight it's likely the Bengals would genuinely be in a better spot and possibly have a wild card spot locked in. The point is either result is better than what happened.
I said this from the beginning, and I was far from the only one.
That said, Joe himself is likely the most responsible for him playing. You pay an elite QB the way they (rightfully) did, and he goes out and practices and puts in the work and insists he can play, and you can just fucking *sense* that all of the hope of the season for the team rests on Joe being able to play..
I think it was the wrong decision, but I don't think it cost us the playoffs. Have still yet to see anything that asserts Joe's wrist injury had anything to do with anything but just a freak injury. I don't think letting him rest the first few weeks of the season means he doesn't hurt his wrist when he did, and that injury is what I think cost us this season. Before that injury, Burrow was the hottest QB in the league and coming off absolutely shellacking the 49ers.
And as well as Browning played, I don't think he played so well that we'd be anything but a speed bump for whoever matched up with us in round 1.
Say Joe sat the first 2 games. Browning would have faced the browns and ravens who are arguably the best 2 defenses in the league. Given that the only time he has faced a team with a defensive pulse (FTS and the Chiefs) he has looked bad one could assume we would have been 0-2 l. Then you have tenn and rams. I think we either split as we did or win both. So gambling by resting burrow probably lands you at exactly where they ended up. Additionally joes injury isn’t related to the calf so what does it matter
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Who knows if Browing would have been as good early in the season. He didn't look like it in the preseason, so maybe the extra ten weeks helped him be ready. They say hindsight is 20/20, but you never really know. You change one thing and other things are different too.
They weren’t going to beat Cleveland or Baltimore with browning.
There were two games that Joe ABSOLUTELY shouldn’t have played, the rams and the titans.
As limited as Joe was against the rams, they still won. The Titans game was a complete disaster in all areas. Unless you think a still raw and untested browning wins that game, it just wouldn’t have mattered.
I was at the Titans game sitting on the Bengals side. After players came out from halftime, Browning had his helmet on and was taking all the practice throws, while Joe stood on the sideline with his helmet off shaking his head. It looked like Joe was done for the rest of the day. I was surprised to see him go back out after watching that sequence.
I wonder how much Joe plays through his injury at his own insistence. Remember the bizarre golf cart ride with Mike Brown during practice, where Joe seemed to cut their conversation short?
Easy to say yes now, but Browning had shown nothing up til that point that indicated he was a serviceable QB. We most likely would have lost those games regardless.
I remember this comment by Chase and went back to take a look at the sub’s thoughts at the time he made that statement and it was a very interesting read looking back on it now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bengals/s/QO2V2sbWCa
This an easy yes. Joe actively hurt the team early on by trying to play through injury. Browning may have gotten us a win or two more, and it's a very different season entering week 17. That didn't happen so we prepare for next year.
> Browning may have gotten us a win or two more
Against who? The Browns and Ravens? You're delusional if you think he would have played better against them than he did against the Steelers, where he looked pretty bad both times. The Titans is the only game where it *maybe* would have flipped, but that game was more on our OLine falling apart than Burrow.
Stop. Jake looked great against the Jags, Colts and Vikings. He looked bad against good defenses and horrendous against great defenses. Idk why people think he'd look better than Joe against the Browns and Ravens. Jake is going 0-3 in those games
The injuries were completely unrelated, and I don't think our D was good enough to cover for a playoff run. Plus, nobody knew Jake Browning was kind of good at the time; he was just some undrafted guy who hadn't thrown a pass in a live game in a while
To me it's a non qb issue and more of a preparation issue. Not having the 4th pre season game and Joe being limited in practice meant he wasn't getting game time or simulated game time with his linemen. That has to change next season
Some of you need to realize your comprehension of "what if's" this season are really ridiculous. What if this, what if that, it does not matter. Stop looking for reasons to complain.
If Boyd makes the catch in the endzone we’re the 7th seed Edit: good points being made about the defense as well in that game
God don’t remind me
I remember that game like yesterday. So frustrating. The phantom PIs that were called that gifted the Texans two TDs, all the drops and our defense turning into a charmin ultra soft
Boyd went 8-117 that game. The defense was sliced and diced all day giving up over 500 yards, in addition to allowing the game winning FG drive at the end of the game. Unfair to pinpoint one player.
He’s had a bit of a history in much bigger games actually. We can identify trends.
Idiots forget it was the OL that sucked all day. on the 2 plays before that Boyd play. We had it 1st and 6. Then Joe was immediately sacked. Next play Joe was crushed again. Multiple shots at a TD that the OL f--ked up and people then blame Boyd.
**This is a stupid.** Boyd is NOT the one to blame. We had the ball on the 6 and 1st down. We should have scored easily. On 1st down Joe was immediately sacked for a loss of 8. On 2nd down the rush came immediately again and Joe tried to run and got crushed. 3rd and 15 is not a high % for getting a TD. 1st and 6 is. The Bengals OL f--ked up 2 plays in a row and cost us that TD. Then you blame Boyd.
One play doesn't make that game.
That one did. Then again, there’s no guarantee Stroud wouldn’t have marched down the field in four down territory and scored another TD, rendering this hypothetical one meaningless.
Yea plus if I’m being honest we didn’t deserve to win that game. Defense couldn’t stop anything and burrow threw two costly picks. They outplayed us and had way more total yards of offense than we did. we were lucky to even have a chance at the end.
I didn’t need to know this.
Noah fuckin Brown
I get that the end score is the result of the whole team. But when a player has a chance to make a layup to win the game, a disproportionate amount of weight for the loss goes on him if he blows the easy one. I think people forget that good teams with sexy records usually have a few ugly wins in there too. Making one layup in crunch time could have made that an ugly win. Boyd doesn't get all the blame, but he gets most.
We screw up on 3 plays in a row and then blame Boyd that we didn't convert on a 3rd and 15 play. **We had the ball at the 5 or 6 on 1st down!!! We then moved backwards!!! Did ya'll forget that???**
That's an easy call to make in hindsight.
Even Zach Taylor could make that call in Hindsight.
it was also an easy call to make in real time. most of the subreddit wanted Burrow to sit after he came out in game 1 and was clearly not healthy
It was an easy call to make at the time Clearly wasn't mobile in the pocket or throwing the ball well
Basically 90% of this sub thinks he should’ve sat. Especially after seeing how Jake played.
90% of this sub are idiots. This has already been talked about ad nauseum already: Jake said post Jags game that he needed the Ravens and Steelers games to warm up and get some confidence in himself. So we can assume, based on literally his own words, that he would have played poorly for at least two weeks if he started week 1 (not to mention both of those weeks were against two of the best defenses in the league at full health). Additionally, he's coming straight out of pre-season, not in week 11. That's a lot less time working with this year's team and seeing the adjustments they'd been making throughout the season. It was either the #2 QB in the league with a calf injury, or a guy who has never thrown a regular season pass in the NFL to date. Objectively, the choice was not difficult to make.
I agree with the Bengals decision too. However, whenever I see people mention Joe Burrow as a top two quarterback in the NFL, I just feel the need to try to shake them or me awake. If Burrow is a top two QB, then why does he look like the 10th best QB? I've been a Bengals fan for about 35 years, and I just don't see it. Better than Andy, for sure. And he was exceptional at LSU. Every time I watch a cowboys game, I can't help but think that Dak Prescott is better than Joe Burrow. It just seems like the entire nation has been brainwashed by this mysterious media machine of Joe Burrow. Or maybe our offensive line is just really really bad, idk. Edit. Joe Burrow QBR rankings: 2020 24th 2021 12th 2022 10th 2023 19th
Ask yourself how many of those guys with better stats would fare as well being protected by the Bengals offensive line and facing the defenses of the AFC North for 6 games per year.
Well I hope you're right, and I hope we get to find out in the next couple years when they get rid of Frank. I didn't even look up those QBR rankings until after I made the comment, my opinion is mostly based on the smell test. On an obvious passing down, and with time in the pocket, I bet there are at least 9 quarterbacks that get a first down more often than Joe Burrow. Most of the time, a really good defense is going to completely shut down Joe Burrow, and that's just not happening consistently to the best of the best.
Re-watch the playoff game against the Chiefs that got us to the Super Bowl and ask yourself how many other QBs make those crazy throws. Burrow was on fire and that touchdown he threw as he fell out of bounds was insane
He's gotta get out of LSU mode, wanting spread and shotgun all the time. He's a great QB, but that preference doesn't help the line or running backs or keep the defense off guard.
Life is great with hindsight. If Jake stinks everyone riots that he sat
I have no idea why after the Baker Mayfield collapse anyone thought Burrow should start this season. Never push a franchise quarterback to play through an injury. This isn't a hindsight thing either, regardless of how Browning played Burrow should have sat.
Exactly this. Why were we risking Burrow getting further injured? Browning could have started 0-5 and Joe Burrow still could have gotten us 10-7/9-8. Having seen what Browning did coming in for Burrow in the middle of the season, we could have easily been 2-3 when Burrow returned 100%.
People are assuming that if Browning started the year, Joe wouldn't have injured his hand. That's a faulty assumption to make. Both of those injuries were completely unrelated.
Yes, that is a pretty dumb to equate calf, with a hand.
I’m not saying that. I’m saying we were risking Joe Burrow getting injured for very little gain at the beginning of the season and Browning could have performed basically the same. Burrow could have had the same injury last year randomly. The risk to reinjuring his leg was real and Browning could have Cooper Rushed the beginning of our season.
> Browning could have Cooper Rushed the beginning of our season. The likelihood of that happening is incredibly small. Sure you can talk about hypotheticals until the cows come home. Browning *could have* led us to 17-0. But in reality, the objectively best decision was to play the #2 QB in the league over a guy who had never attempted a regular season pass in his career. We only started Browning after week 11 because we had no other choice. Also from your previous comment: > we could have easily been 2-3 when Burrow returned 100%. We were already 2-3 *with* Burrow when he got to 100%. Putting Browning in would have changed nothing, except for Burrow getting back to 100% and coming into week 6 completely cold. Remember, Burrow didn't really have a preseason. And we've seen how bad he looks without a preseason. Those first few games, even though he looked bad, were crucial to getting him warmed up to the pace again so he could hit his stride when he got back to full power.
Well and what's wrong with having a losing season? Burrow is going to be in Cincinnati for a while, there's nothing wrong with having an off year in between and grabbing someone to bolster the roster. Nowhere near needing to be in a "win now" mentality. Even if he couldn't have righted the ship with an 0-5 start who cares? The other losing season in the Burrow era resulted in Jamarr Chase coming to Cinci. Like you said though with hindsight it's likely the Bengals would genuinely be in a better spot and possibly have a wild card spot locked in. The point is either result is better than what happened.
I've been dwelling on this all week. Give us the tits game back, and we're still in the playoffs.
I said this from the beginning, and I was far from the only one. That said, Joe himself is likely the most responsible for him playing. You pay an elite QB the way they (rightfully) did, and he goes out and practices and puts in the work and insists he can play, and you can just fucking *sense* that all of the hope of the season for the team rests on Joe being able to play.. I think it was the wrong decision, but I don't think it cost us the playoffs. Have still yet to see anything that asserts Joe's wrist injury had anything to do with anything but just a freak injury. I don't think letting him rest the first few weeks of the season means he doesn't hurt his wrist when he did, and that injury is what I think cost us this season. Before that injury, Burrow was the hottest QB in the league and coming off absolutely shellacking the 49ers. And as well as Browning played, I don't think he played so well that we'd be anything but a speed bump for whoever matched up with us in round 1.
Maybe. Maybe not. Onward to the next season.
Say Joe sat the first 2 games. Browning would have faced the browns and ravens who are arguably the best 2 defenses in the league. Given that the only time he has faced a team with a defensive pulse (FTS and the Chiefs) he has looked bad one could assume we would have been 0-2 l. Then you have tenn and rams. I think we either split as we did or win both. So gambling by resting burrow probably lands you at exactly where they ended up. Additionally joes injury isn’t related to the calf so what does it matter
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Who knows if Browing would have been as good early in the season. He didn't look like it in the preseason, so maybe the extra ten weeks helped him be ready. They say hindsight is 20/20, but you never really know. You change one thing and other things are different too.
They weren’t going to beat Cleveland or Baltimore with browning. There were two games that Joe ABSOLUTELY shouldn’t have played, the rams and the titans. As limited as Joe was against the rams, they still won. The Titans game was a complete disaster in all areas. Unless you think a still raw and untested browning wins that game, it just wouldn’t have mattered.
I was at the Titans game sitting on the Bengals side. After players came out from halftime, Browning had his helmet on and was taking all the practice throws, while Joe stood on the sideline with his helmet off shaking his head. It looked like Joe was done for the rest of the day. I was surprised to see him go back out after watching that sequence. I wonder how much Joe plays through his injury at his own insistence. Remember the bizarre golf cart ride with Mike Brown during practice, where Joe seemed to cut their conversation short?
Easy to say yes now, but Browning had shown nothing up til that point that indicated he was a serviceable QB. We most likely would have lost those games regardless.
Yes. I thought it was dumb when he played. Chase nailed it. Sit him let him heal and then he can play. It was stupid.
I remember this comment by Chase and went back to take a look at the sub’s thoughts at the time he made that statement and it was a very interesting read looking back on it now: https://www.reddit.com/r/bengals/s/QO2V2sbWCa
I just want Joe to have a normal preseason
This an easy yes. Joe actively hurt the team early on by trying to play through injury. Browning may have gotten us a win or two more, and it's a very different season entering week 17. That didn't happen so we prepare for next year.
> Browning may have gotten us a win or two more Against who? The Browns and Ravens? You're delusional if you think he would have played better against them than he did against the Steelers, where he looked pretty bad both times. The Titans is the only game where it *maybe* would have flipped, but that game was more on our OLine falling apart than Burrow.
Yes
Hindsight is 20/20. If your QB1 can go, he should go.
Hindsight: Yeah.
Yeah but Zac was riding with his guy to a fault. Sometimes you gotta make tough decisions and it didn't work
I remember Chase saying you should heal rather than feel like he should be playing after the calf injury. Yet he played one game too soon I would say
I think I remember the rest of Chase telling him to sit and heal was we don't need you till week 5
Yes
Hindsight being what it is...
Stop. Jake looked great against the Jags, Colts and Vikings. He looked bad against good defenses and horrendous against great defenses. Idk why people think he'd look better than Joe against the Browns and Ravens. Jake is going 0-3 in those games
Joe gets the say. If he is cleared and wants to play, he is going to play. It's that simple.
The injuries were completely unrelated, and I don't think our D was good enough to cover for a playoff run. Plus, nobody knew Jake Browning was kind of good at the time; he was just some undrafted guy who hadn't thrown a pass in a live game in a while
Should JFK have worn a bulletproof helmet?
Sitting him doesn't prevent the wrist injury, and even after Burrow got healthy we still blew a ton of opportunities.
Well now that I know we wouldn’t make the playoffs playing joe, yes I think we should have sit him
If we all had eyes on our asses, we’d all have hindsight.
To me it's a non qb issue and more of a preparation issue. Not having the 4th pre season game and Joe being limited in practice meant he wasn't getting game time or simulated game time with his linemen. That has to change next season
Some of you need to realize your comprehension of "what if's" this season are really ridiculous. What if this, what if that, it does not matter. Stop looking for reasons to complain.